Other Tiers ADV UUBL Discussion

[Wenderz]

ADV UUBL Thread

While it's not supposed to be a playable tier in itself, ADV UUBL is a massive list of Pokemon, almost double the size of ADV OU. While ADV UUBL supposed to simply be a banlist for UU made back when the tiering policy was different and arbritrary, not intended to be a playable metagame, this tier is surprisingly fun, balanced, and quite a few Pokemon that have next to no relevancy in their normally only playable official tiers, OU and Ubers, can be viably used in within the UUBL limits. This thread aims to provide sources, including a Viability Ranking, a Role Compendium, Speed tiers, and sample teams, as well as discussion regarding the ADV UUBL metagame.

ADV UUBL is not an official tier so there's no set in stone ruleset so to speak. Currently, the standard ruleset for ADV UUBL would be the same as ADV OU except Sand Veil ban, including OU Baton Pass clause as well as previous BP clause, which result in the following limitations:
- Teams are limited to 1 form of stat-boosting alongside Baton Pass across the whole team.
- Mean Look/Spider Web/Block + Baton Pass is disallowed.
- Baton Pass + any method of increasing Speed (Agility, Dragon Dance, Speed Boost, Salac Berry) is banned.
- Reversal and Flail are banned
- Swagger is banned.

These rules could very well change in the future. The goal is to prevent full pass chains and cheesy strategies while still allowing players to dry pass and enabling stuff like BP Espeon and Lunatone in special offense. More restrictions could be added in the future if the playerbase wants a full Baton Pass ban if complex bans are deemed insufficient and the playstyles, sets, and Pokemon not worth preserving, a Dry Pass only ruleset, or something else. Some restrictions could also be lifted if the playerbase wishes.

Keep in mind that UUBL remains a banlist and that banning a Pokemon from a banlist is not really feasible as long as it is not an official tier. Fortunately, the metagame is, in my opinion, very well balanced as is and doesn't need any full Pokemon ban. You might also have noticed that tier shifts between ADV OU and UUBL happen depending on decisions from the OU council to drop or rise single Pokemon, which means that ADV UUBL can gain Pokemon dropping from OU or lose current UUBL Pokemon. It's an old "metagame" that can still change like a current generation tier.

Let me know if you have any question or suggestion regarding ADV UUBL and feel free to discuss the changes I suggested, that's what the thread is for. In this regard, you can also join the dedicated Discord server:
https://discord.gg/stCZkTJ

Here are some sources to help you get into the metagame:
- Viability Ranking with linked analysis
- Sample teams
- Speed tiers
- Guide to the lead metagame
- Role compendium

Happy posting!

 

[Wenderz]

S Rank

Dragonite

Raikou

Registeel

A Rank

A+

Houndoom
Medicham

Regice
Vaporeon

A

Alakazam

Chansey

Donphan

Hariyama

Omastar

Qwilfish

Venusaur

Weezing

A-

Blaziken

Kingdra

Lanturn

Miltank

Tauros

B Rank

B+

Dusclops

Haunter

Jynx

Machamp

Marowak

Regirock

Scizor

Slowbro

Smeargle

Steelix

Tentacruel

Ursaring

B

Arcanine

Armaldo

Dodrio

Entei

Espeon

Gardevoir

Glalie

Kangaskhan

Ludicolo

Rhydon

Sceptile

B-

Articuno

Crobat

Exeggutor

Lapras

Porygon2

Quagsire

Slaking

Solrock

Swellow

Umbreon

Zangoose

C Rank

C+

Cradily

Diglett

Electrode

Linoone

Misdreavus

Nidoqueen

C

Blastoise

Cacturne

Camerupt

Gligar

Hypno

Lunatone

Nidoking

Typhlosion

C-

Ampharos

Grumpig

Jumpluff

Kabutops

Meganium

Sableye

Trapinch

D Rank

Kadabra

 

[Wenderz]

Here are some sample teams. Feel free to submit if you want to.

(OUTDATED) DD Dnite Balance

Houndoom @ Leftovers
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 176 HP / 96 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Rest
- Fire Blast
- Crunch

Sceptile @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 56 Atk / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Punch

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earthquake
- Heal Bell

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Protect
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Earthquake

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Def / 168 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Wish
- Surf
- Ice Beam

Weezing @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Haze
- Sludge Bomb

Explanation

Bulky Houndoom is a nice gluemon and serves as my main sleep absorber with Early Bird. It is in the lead position since it can pressure most sleep inducers like Smeargle, Venusaur, Jynx, and Jumpluff, and can lure Vaporeon and Regirock early in the match before crippling them with Toxic, which is hugely beneficial for Dragonite. It also does a very good job against bulky teams due to its ability to spread Toxic easily and to sit on some Pokemon with Rest + Early Bird. Sceptile, while suffering from a lack of immediate power, remain an alright revenge killer, notably against Raikou, and can badly damage some of its usual check with its coverage moves, opening the field for Dragonite. Speaking of which, DD Dragonite is in my opinion the best Pokemon in the metagame as it can freely set up in front of a large amount of Pokemon when using Heal Bell and proceed to sweep from there. It naturally check quite a lot and offers a very useful support as a cleric. Registeel is my main answer to specially offensive Pokemon like Alakazam and the newcomer Raikou with the given moves, although I'm still not sure if the loss of Seismic Toss is worth it to better check these two, especially since its also my only Normal resist (I initially only had HP ghost, but if Raikou drops I think that EQ might be very important as well). Vaporeon checks like half of the tier and is my best tool against Dragonite as well as most Fire and Water-types, and Wish support is very beneficial for this defensive core. Finally, Weezing is one of the most reliable Fighting checks in the tier, and with WoW + Haze it makes an additionnal check to the likes of DD Dnite, SD Scizor, and Curse Milktank. This team was made when the ladder dropped and thus prior to the shifts I suggested, but it should still work fine.

(OUTDATED) Kingdra Offense by Arthur C Paes

Qwilfish @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Self-Destruct
- Haze
- Spikes
- Toxic
Haunter @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 60 HP / 156 Atk / 12 Def / 64 SpA / 216 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 Spe
- Explosion
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
Kingdra @ Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance
- Toxic
Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Baton Pass
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Roar
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Calm Mind
Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe Adamant Nature
- Explosion
- Thunder Wave
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

Explanation

Qwilfish is great at setting up spikes. In the over 10 games I've played with this team there has only been one where it didnt set up at least one spike, it is incredibly consistent. This is due to its ability to switch in and set up spikes on many Pokemon such as Vaporeon, Venusaur, Houndoom, Registeel, Weezing, Chansey, Blaziken, Breloom, Crobat, Entei, Hariyama, and many others. The rest of its moveset is just it trying to be as effective as possible after setting up spikes with Haze trying to limit set up opportunities, toxic being able to Cripple walls, and self-destruct being able to do a lot of damage

Haunter is our spin blocker because without spikes on the field it's really tough to wear down spdef walls like Chansey and Registeel so keeping them up is crucial for this teams success. Its a great spikes blocker cus it's immune to earthquake and Rapid Spin and the most common spinner Donphan usually uses earthquake as its main move so if you haven't revealed Haunter it's basically a free switch cus it will probably go for either Rapid Spin or earthquake. After that Hunter can burn it with will o wisp if it stays in to cripple it or it can burn a wall coming in. The biggest risk is if a Houndoom comes in and traps it but if you don't want to take that risk you can switch out into a water type after blocking the spin which deals with donphan if it stays in and a possible Houndoom coming in. Apart from that it can also do some decent damage with bolt beam coverage and can explode on chansey or whatever you want it to. A final bonus is it's a really good mind game against Choice banded normal types because it's main two moves are going to be its normal stab to hit Vaporeon and earthquake to hit Registeel and Haunter is of course immune to both of them.

Vaporeon is a very crucial defensive Pokemon as it stops the team from losing to Dragonite, fire types and it can just in general switch into a lot of things. You might notice I have zero speed IVs and that is so vaporeon can be slower than the base 50s like Chansey and the Reggie's as well as opposing Vaporeons. This is so I can use Baton pass slower then them allowing you to bp in another Pokemon without risking it getting hit. Toxic is used to damage special walls that can be troublesome to chip down mainly opposing water types along with things like dusclops and is just in general a good move

Registeel is there so you don't lose to special attackers, mainly Raikou and Alakazam. I run a more offensive set in order for it to be able to do some damage with earthquake and rock slide and it allows its explosions to do huge amounts of damage. Thunder wave is very good to cripple opposing Pokemon.

Kingdra is the rain sweeper. It is very powerful under rain and it's boosted water moves do significant damage while Ice Beam covers the ones that resist it excluding water types which it can cripple with toxic and which I hope spikes + Raikou + Vaporeon's toxic deals with. It has a surprising amount of Bulk allowing it to almost never be one hit KOed and usually live 2 hits partly due to its great typing meaning it has effectively no weaknesses. You can use Surf or Hydro with Hydro being considerably more powerful however you might lose some game due to missing them which might be bad if you think you can win enough games without the extra power.

The most important thing for this team is setting up spikes and keeping spikes on the field, even one layer is okay though obviously 3 is preferable and 2 is also fine. Excluding the explosions and self-destructs there are no physical moves on this team and thus without spikes special walls are tough to wear down, however with spikes, poison or burn and the use of explosions if necessary you are able to wear them down pretty effectively especially if you play correctly and take advantage of roar Raikou and blow up if necessary. Kingdra can be used mid-game to switch into certain attacks like fire moves if your Vaporeon is weakened or something but I usually prefer to keep it at full health for late-game to 100% guarantee that I'm going to get a rain dance up and probably even live a hit after that. This team has the worst matchup against stall with a spinner cuz when it's just one special wall to wear down it's pretty easy to do like if it's just a chansey you can roar it and explode on it, registeel doesn't have reliable recovery, it's not that difficult however once you have teams with 2 or more specially defensive mons and a rapid spinner that takes away your spikes it's just really rough to wear them down and you got to play really well, getting spikes ASAP, utilizing Haunter to block the rapid spins, explode on the right mons and take advantage of the Power of Kingdra in rain and calm mind Raikou.

SD Venusaur Balance

Lanturn @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 56 SpD / 160 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Toxic

Houndoom @ Leftovers
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 252 SpA / 20 SpD / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Fire Blast
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Venusaur @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 180 SpD
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sludge Bomb
- Earthquake
- Synthesis

Machamp @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Cross Chop
- Rock Slide
- Facade

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Ice Beam
- Heal Bell
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Explosion
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Earthquake

Explanation

The main focus behind this team is to lure out typical answers to SD Venusaur, take care of them, and ideally enabling a sweep from SD Venusaur. Houndoom is a great partner here since a good number of the aforementioned problematic Pokemon for Venusaur are Pursuit weak, namely the Psychics like Alakazam and Gardevoir as well as Haunter. Houndoom can also cripple Weezing, arguably the biggest problem for SD Venusaur, and sometimes take Dragonite by surprise with HP Ice. Bulk Up Machamp with Facade makes a solid breaker that can bait and damage Weezing, hopefully putting it in range of a full powered Pursuit at least. It shares a lot of common counterplay with Venusaur, namely Dragonite and Haunter that usually lose to +1 Machamp. Some teams also rely on a Psychic type Pokemon to deal with Machamp, leaving them vulnerable to Houndoom coming to revenge kill.

Venusaur with a specially defensive spread isn't the most consistent answer to fighting-types, namely CB Medicham, so I brought Dragonite to complement it. I ended up using the defensive variant to deal with opposing Dragonite as well as grounds like Marowak, and Dragonite has the added benefit of bringing Heal Bell support which can be very useful for Venusaur which might end up taking Thunder Waves from stuff like Registeel, Chansey, or Lanturn. Registeel is used here as a safer answer to Alakazam, the team's first pillar against Regice, a normal and Flying resist, and an additional check to plenty of Pokemon such as Raikou, Kingdra, Jynx, etc. I went with a more offensive variant in order to have a stronger Earthquake to limit Omastar's and Qwilfish's attempts to lay down Spikes, hurt reckless Fire-types more effectively to ease Venusaur's potential of sweeping, and have a stronger Explosion to potentially take out problematic Pokemon like Donphan or once again Weezing. Finally, I wanted something to threaten Vaporeon effectively, so either Raikou or Lanturn. I chose Lanturn since Fire-types with HP Ice were a big threat and the additional defensive utility against Raikou, Regice, and co is appreciated as well, although this team remains very weak to Blaziken regardless.

CM Pass offense

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Calm Mind
- Toxic

Lunatone @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Baton Pass

Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 208 SpA / 48 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss

Haunter @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Taunt

Entei @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 132 HP / 28 Def / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Kingdra @ Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Rain Dance
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Explanation

A CM spam team but in UUBL. Raikou is the lead of choice, with Toxic in the last slot to catch problematic Pokemon likeRegice or Lanturn and 1v1 subless opposing Raikou to hopefully ease the work of the rest of the team. Lunatone is chosen here since much like in OU with Salamence it keeps Dragonite in check and can BP against it. It also has more defensive utility than Espeon and helps against plenty of other stuff like Marowak, Weezing, and the normals. Regice is here to help against opposing CMers like Raikou or Alakazam and gives some additional support against the likes of Vaporeon. Seismic Toss is used here since doing as much damage as possible to Registeel, Lanturn, and opposing Regice can really make a difference but Explosion could be considered as well to have a shot at taking down Chansey, but the worsened matchup against Registeel and Sub Raikou is problematic.

Haunter shuts down most standard variants of Chansey and Registeel and is overall a pain for a lot of bulkier build to face. It also brings a fighting immunity and another way to swicth onto Normal and grounds should Lunatone not be enough. An Explosion variant could be considered here as well for solid damage on Regice and Lanturn, the second in particular being a pain for this team to face. Entei is another Pokemon that have some occasional solid matchups against bulky builds and can abuse the likes of Regice and Chansey. The rest of the team carry an Ice Move so Entei can afford to run HP Grass most of the time. Kingdra rounds up the team and can with a CM and an opportunity, end some offensive teams once the opposing Regice and/or sturdy water resists are taken care of. Ludicolo could be considered on that slot if the stabbed HP Grass is considered to be essential enough to have a slightly better matchup against Lanturn but Kingdra's resistance to Fireand ability to survive stuff like +1 Dnite makes it an overall better pick.

Standard offense

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Roar
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Calm Mind

Qwilfish @ Leftovers
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Sludge Bomb
- Self-Destruct
- Hydro Pump

Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 200 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Psych Up

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Quick Attack

Dragonite @ Choice Band
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earthquake
- Focus Punch
- Sleep Talk

Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Steel Wing
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Morning Sun

Explanation

This team is one of the many variants of what may be the most standard offense team archetype in UUBL, which is Dragonite, an Electric-type, a Regi, a spiker, and two fillers to patch the remaining weaknesses. The electric is usually Raikou, and the Regi Regice, which is also used here. Raikou and Dragonite make a great core, as Dragonite can come in on the various Earthquake aimed at Raikou and start wreaking houses with this Choice Band variant which can also always make meaningful progress as long as you click on the right move, while Raikou can abuse the most prominent check to Dragonite: Vaporeon. Regice is a staple in offense due to its ability to keep in check the numerous specially oriented threats in the tier such as Raikou, Alakazam, Vaporeon, Kingdra, etc. I chose Qwilfish as my spiker here, which provides a temporary switch in to fighters, most notably Medicham and Blaziken which speed tie with Dragonite and can OHKO it with a CB or Swords Dance boost, respectively. Spikes are as always very useful and very beneficial to Raikou in particular since all of its checks are grounded Pokemon.

Vaporeon is my main answer to Dragonite and other threats such as Donphan, Regirock, and Houndoom, and also gives additional support against the likes of Kingdra, allowing me to use Poison Point on Qwilfish more freely. Baton Pass is used in the filler slot to give potential opporunties to teammates like Dragonite when something like Venusaur switches in, but other moves can be considered, including the weird Quick Attack of Reversal/Flail strategies on ladder. Hydro Pump is of course also a possibility if you don't willing to risk missing. Lastly, Scizor is here to serve as another win condition that handles Normal-types such as Tauros, check other threats such as Regice and to a lesser extent Lanturn as well, and setup on problematic Pokemon such as Registeel and other setup sweepers like Curse Miltank. It benefits from Regice's Thunder Wave which may catch a Fire-type like Houndoom or Blaziken. Quick Attack is also available if you can afford the moveslot.

Standard Balance

Donphan @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 224 HP / 128 Atk / 100 SpD / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

Weezing @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Haze
- Sludge Bomb

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Wish
- Ice Beam
- Surf

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Atk / 116 SpD
Careful Nature
- Protect
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
- Earthquake

Houndoom @ Leftovers
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 252 SpA / 20 SpD / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Beat Up

Medicham @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brick Break
- Rock Slide
- Bulk Up
- Recover

Explanation

Weezing, Vaporeon, and Registeel check nearly the entirety of the offensive threats in the metagame together, which makes them form a solid defensive core for balance teams. However, they offer a ton of opportunities to spikers such as Qwilfish and Omastar to spread hazards. Donphan is thus added to back up the core with hazard control, and offer an additional check to stuff such as Raikou and Blaziken. Balance teams usually want an overall self sufficient wallbreaker to make progress against defensive structures, and Bulk Up Medicham was the one picked for the job here. For the remaining slot, Houndoom provides additional counterplay against stuff like non Calm Mind Alakazam and offers Pursuit support to cripple Pokemon that are troublesome for Medicham such as Weezing, Haunter, Dusclops, and Slowbro, while serving as a strong and decently fast offensive threat on its own and as a sleep absorber thanks to Early Bird.

Shadow Ball can be considered over Rock Slide on Medicham if the team is deemed good enough against Dragonite. Other variants can be used as well. Other wallbreakers such as Choice Band or Mixed Dragonite, Bulk Up Machamp, or Swords Dance Ursaring can also be used over Medicham.

Standard Stall

Omastar @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Spikes
- Surf
- Ice Beam

Chansey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Heal Bell

Weezing @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Donphan @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Rock]

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Rest
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Earthquake

Hariyama @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Def / 184 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brick Break
- Knock Off
- Whirlwind
- Rest

Explanation

Very standard stall build around the Weezing + Omastar + Chansey core. Weezing can check most physical attackers, but still greatly appreciates Omastar's ability to come into the various Hidden Power Flying and Double-Edge coming from Choice Band users such as Dragonite and Tauros. On the other hand, Chansey handles the wide majority of special attackers and supports the team further with Heal Bell support, although other moves such as Wish or Ice Beam can be considered on that slot. Donphan is chosen as the spinner, although Tentacruel is also suited for the role and is more reliable against Blaziken, but Donphan's ability to secondary check stuff like Dragonite is deemed appealing for this team. Curse Registeel grants the team a strong win condition and an additional special wall that can handle the likes of Raikou, Alakazam, Jynx, Lanturn, and Vaporeon if something happens to Chansey. Defensive Hariyama fills the remaining slot and provides the team with a strong fire check to Houndoom and Entei, which would be very threatening with Beat Up or Substitute Calm Mind variants, respectively. It also serves as an additional check to huge threats for stall teams such as Blaziken and Ursaring while racking up passive damage with Knock Off and Whirlwind, crippling defensive oriented setup sweepers like Curse Registeel, Curse Miltank, Swords Dance Scizor, and Calm Mind Slowbro in the process.

Houndoom, preferably a Flash Fire + Hidden Power Water variant, can be considered over Hariyama if the Haunter weakness is deemed to be too much. Its Pursuit support also benefits Registeel and it is able to check Beat Up Houndoom and Entei with great efficiency.

Steelix offense

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Atk / 84 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Explosion

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Heal Bell
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam

Medicham @ Choice Band
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brick Break
- Rock Slide
- Shadow Ball
- Fake Out

Qwilfish @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Sludge Bomb
- Self-Destruct
- Hydro Pump

Kangaskhan (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 200 HP / 76 Atk / 232 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Explanation

An offensive oriented team featuring Steelix, which tends to compete with Registeel a lot but keeps some neat qualities over it, including an ability to pressure said Registeel without the fear of statues or an untimely Explosion. The main issue when building with Steelix is that while its even better at handling Raikou and Choice Band Dragonite and Normal-types, the team usually ends being susceptible to at least one of Regice, Lanturn, Alakazam, offensive Vaporeon, Kingdra, Jynx, Ludicolo, etc. Something that can be solved by replacing Steelix with Registeel in most cases. For this reason, Kangaskhan was chosen as the team main special check as its not as passive as Chansey and can deal with some of the aforementioned threats better than Regice. It can also double as a pretty good stallbreaker with proper play around the likes of Weezing and Dusclops. Bulky Dragonite covers the core weaknesses against Fighting and Ground-types, on top of providing Heal Bell support and a better answer to DD Dragonite. Qwilfish also contributes to that while serving as a Spikes setter and, with Swift Swim, as an emergency answer to opposing Rain sweepers if Kangaskhan is alseep or weakened too much.

The two remaining members form a classic duo of special sweeper + fighter, with Raikou being in the lead position to prevent early Spikes as much as possible and present an immediate threat, while Choice Band Medicham provides instant wallbreaking power and a safety net in Fake Out to the team.

A possible more offensive variation to the team would be Glalie, offensive Vaporeon, and possibly Dragon Dance Dragonite over Qwilfish and Kangaskhan, which may have better synergy overall and more use for Steelix' Explosion but would necessitate more agressive plays to limit the likes of Alakazam, Lanturn, and Regice from being too problematic.

SD Ursaring Balance

Lanturn @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 56 SpD / 160 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave

Ursaring @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Return
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Earthquake

Armaldo @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rest
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Earthquake

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Rest
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Earthquake

Weezing @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sludge Bomb
- Pain Split
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earthquake
- Heal Bell

Explanation

Balanced team with a self sufficient progress maker in Swords Dance Ursaring, one of the biggest threats for stall teams. It also features two other setup sweepers in Curse Registeel and Dragon Dance Dragonite, which have better chances at posing a threat to builds Ursaring struggle against. Meanwhile, they both appreciate Ursaring ability to take advanatge of Weezing and draw in the likes of Donphan before heavily damaging them. They also provide important defensive presence and Heal Bell in Dragonite's case, which can wake Armaldo and Registeel up after they use Rest. Even so, I added Weezing to serve as more robust Fighting- and Ground-types answer since these will be hardpressed to fire off their STAB against Ursaring and/or Registeel.

Since this isn't a standard ProTox Registeel tailored to handle some of the most noteworthy threats you typically need Registeel to deal with, I added Lanturn and defensive Armaldo to take off the pressure against the likes of Raikou and Choice Band Tauros. The former can also catch some targets with Thunder Wave to further help Ursaring while the latter provides Rapid Spin support, which is greatly appreciated since Omastar and Qwilfish are susceptible to find lots of opportunities against Weezing and even Registeel if they can afford to let it Curse up.

Curse Miltank semi-stall

Houndoom @ Leftovers
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 252 SpA / 16 SpD / 240 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Beat Up

Weezing @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Pain Split
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Will-O-Wisp

Miltank (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Milk Drink
- Body Slam
- Heal Bell

Donphan @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 224 HP / 128 Atk / 100 SpD / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

Omastar @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Protect
- Surf
- Ice Beam

Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 148 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Rest

Explanation

Curse Miltank is a Pokemon that is easy to forget about or simply dismiss when teambuilding and thus easy to get swept by. However, it's quite needy in terms of support, so the team is centered around enabling it. Houndoom is a near mandatory partner outside of MU fishing to Pursuit ghost-types that stonewall Miltank. Its Pursuit is also very handy against Weezing, an important target since Haze variants in particular are similarly painful for Miltank to face, and to a lesser against Medicham if Houndoom ever gets the chance to come in and can afford to risk a Pursuit. Speaking of Weezing, it is a natural partner for Miltank since its the overall best answer to Fighting-types that will be very tempted to come into Miltank as it curses up.

Since Miltank is very exploitable by spikers, especially Omastar, Donphan was added with a spread that optimizes its capabilities as a spinner. It also serves as a soft check to Blaziken which is very threatening for this team. By nature of being defensive oriented, this team appreciates passive damage as a mean of making progress, and thus Omastar was added as the spiker that fit best here thanks to its Normal- and Flying- resist. Finally, the team needed a proper wall to handle the many special sweepers in the tier. Defensive Regice was chosen for its ability to get the job done on top of forcing damage against the likes of Registeel a lot of the time and being more potent against Haunter and even Weezing to an extent.

DDnite semistall by Teh

This stall team retains this usual basic structure of Weezing + Chansey + Omastar but with an offensive Tentacruel over the standard spinner of choice Donphan, which is an excellent check to Fire like Houndoom, Blaziken, and Entei that stall teams usually have to take into account as they can all defeat Chansey on top of being a safer spinner against Omastar and Qwilfish and better at discouraging Haunter from trying to spinblock. Its Liquid Ooze ability can also come in handy against the occasional Leech Seed Venusaur which can be annoying for stall teams to face. DD Dragonite is there to provide both some form of progress against opposing passive damage sponges and as an unexpected threat against offensive team on top of providing Heal Bell to support the other win condition in the team, Curse Registeel, and saving a moveslot for Chansey so it can run a WishTect set, helping its teammates and scouting what Choice Band users lock themselves onto.

CM Zam offense

An offensive build featuring a classic core of special sweeper + fighting-type to take advantage of the tier's special wall trio of Regice, Registeel, and Chansey, this time with Calm Mind Alakazam + Medicham. This team wants to thrive on offensive momentum, which Smeargle provides very effectively with a positive lead matchup. Endure + Salac Berry is chosen here to not have to deal with Choice Band switch on turn one, and Explosion is preferred over Destiny Bond to make sure the opposing spinner doesn't clear Spikes against 1 HP Smeargle since there's no Ghost type in the back. The downside of using these three Pokemon is that they all individually offer very little defensive presence and you're essentially left with 3 slots to handle the entire offensive roster of the tier. Offensive Registeel, bulky Dragonite, and Lanturn were chosen to fulfill that task by providing all the needed resistances and immunities while not being momentum sinks.

Maro Paraspam by JoaF

Hariyama @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 228 Atk / 160 Def / 60 SpD / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Cross Chop
- Rock Slide
- Knock Off
- Whirlwind

Regirock @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Explosion

Miltank @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 88 Def / 164 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heal Bell
- Milk Drink
- Curse
- Body Slam

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 44 SpA / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Surf

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 160 Atk / 96 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bonemerang
- Rock Slide
- Double-Edge

Spikes Balance by JoaF

Tauros (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Frustration
- Hidden Power [Ghost]

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 3 Atk / 30 Def
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roar

Omastar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Spikes

Weezing @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 44 Def / 208 SpD
Impish Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Haze
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp

Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam
- Seismic Toss
- Rest

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 224 Atk / 44 SpD / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earthquake
- Heal Bell

 

[sumwun]

Usage Statistics

Usage stats are a good source of sample movesets. You can also see what leads and teammates other people used on the ladder and get an idea of what the metagame was like. I don't expect this to get another ladder for a long time, so these usage stats will probably be a helpful resource until then.

2019 September
2020 April

Speed Tiers

The speed tiers are mostly based on this file. Of course, you should point out any changes you want to make, whether it's an error, a notable speed that should get added, or a non-notable speed that should get removed. This currently includes only the speed stats with 0 EVs or 252 EVs, because most of the common EV spreads last month will likely never be common again. If you creep on each threat's max speed, then you can at least be sure they can't turn around and creep you, regardless of metagame changes.

Format: speed / Pokemon / base speed / EVs / nature / boost (if not 0) / IVs (if not 31)
When multiple Pokemon have the same speed, they're ranked most common to most rare.

speeds (menu sprites)

690160 / 252 / + / +1
53885 / 252 / 0 / swift swim
460160 / 252 / +
42680 / 252 / + / +1
41855 / 252 / 0 / swift swim
394130 / 252 / +
383125 / 252 / +
372120 / 252 / +
361115 / 252 / +
350110 / 252 / +
339105 / 252 / +
33265 / 0 / 0 / +2
328100 / 252 / +
319110 / 252 / 0
31795 / 252 / +
299100 / 252 / 0
29585 / 252 / +
28995 / 252 / 0
28480 / 252 / +
26985 / 252 / 0
25980 / 252 / 0
23970 / 252 / 0
22965 / 252 / 0
22695 / 0 / 0
20685 / 0 / 0
19950 / 252 / 0
19680 / 0 / 0
18945 / 252 / 0
17680 / 0 / -
16665 / 0 / 0
15660 / 0 / 0
14655 / 0 / 0
13650 / 0 / 0
12645 / 0 / 0
11640 / 0 / 0
9630 / 0 / 0
8625 / 0 / 0

speeds (text)

690 / Ninjask / 160 / 252 / + / +1
538 / Kingdra / 85 / 252 / 0 / swift swim
460 / Ninjask / 160 / 252 / +
426 / Medicham / 80 / 252 / + / +1
418 / Omastar / 55 / 252 / 0 / swift swim
394 / Crobat / 130 / 252 / +
383 / Swellow / 125 / 252 / +
372 / Alakazam, Sceptile / 120 / 252 / +
361 / Raikou / 115 / 252 / +
350 / Tauros / 110 / 252 / +
339 / Scyther / 105 / 252 / +
332 / Scizor / 65 / 0 / 0 / +2
328 / Entei, Dodrio, Slaking, Charizard, Tentacruel / 100 / 252 / +
319 / Tauros / 110 / 252 / 0
317 / Houndoom, Jynx / 95 / 252 / +
299 / Entei, Slaking / 100 / 252 / 0
295 / Qwilfish / 85 / 252 / +
289 / Houndoom / 95 / 252 / 0
284 / Medicham, Glalie, Blaziken, Gardevoir / 80 / 252 / +
269 / Kingdra / 85 / 252 / 0
259 / Dragonite / 80 / 252 / 0
239 / Breloom / 70 / 252 / 0
229 / Vaporeon / 65 / 252 / 0
226 / Diglett / 95 / 0 / 0
206 / Articuno / 85 / 0 / 0
199 / Hariyama / 50 / 252 / 0
196 / Dragonite, Venusaur / 80 / 0 / 0
189 / Marowak / 45 / 252 / 0
176 / Venusaur / 80 / 0 / -
166 / Vaporeon, Umbreon, Scizor / 65 / 0 / 0
156 / Weezing / 60 / 0 / 0
146 / Omastar, Machamp / 55 / 0 / 0
136 / Chansey, Donphan, Registeel, Hariyama, Regirock / 50 / 0 / 0
126 / Marowak / 45 / 0 / 0
116 / Rhydon / 40 / 0 / 0
96 / Steelix, Slowbro / 30 / 0 / 0
86 / Dusclops / 25 / 0 / 0

Role Compendium

As usual, please point out any missing roles, misplaced Pokemon, or anything on here that should change. This list shouldn't include "unviable" Pokemon.

roles (menu sprites)

Bulky Waters:

Leftovers physical attackers:

Special attackers:

Mixed attackers:

Walls:



Other items:

Swords Dance:

Belly Drum:

Calm Mind:

Other setup:
(Dragon Dance)(Agility)(Rain Dance)(Curse)
Spikes:

Rapid Spin:

Thunder Wave:

Toxic:

Will-O-Wisp:

Sleep:

Wish:

Heal Bell:

Haze/Roar:

Pursuit:

Self-Destruct/Explosion:

Baton Pass:

roles (text)

Bulky Waters: Slowbro, Vaporeon, Omastar
Leftovers physical attackers: Steelix, Qwilfish, Breloom, Hariyama, Regirock
Special attackers: Alakazam, Houndoom, Kingdra, Raikou, Entei
Mixed attackers: Charizard, Sceptile, Blaziken
Walls: Venusaur, Weezing, Chansey, Umbreon, Scizor, Donphan, Miltank, Registeel
Salac Berry: Charizard, Medicham
Choice Band: Machamp, Tauros, Dragonite, Crobat
Other items: Marowak (Thick Club), Qwilfish (Lum Berry)
Swords Dance: Marowak, Scizor, Blaziken
Belly Drum: Charizard, Hariyama
Calm Mind: Alakazam, Raikou, Entei
Other setup: Dragonite (Dragon Dance), Scizor (Agility), Kingdra (Rain Dance), Miltank (Curse)
Spikes: Omastar, Qwilfish
Rapid Spin: Donphan
Thunder Wave: Slowbro, Qwilfish, Regirock, Registeel
Toxic: Chansey, Vaporeon, Omastar, Umbreon, Steelix, Houndoom, Kingdra, Regirock, Registeel
Will-O-Wisp: Weezing, Houndoom
Sleep: Venusaur, Breloom
Wish: Chansey, Vaporeon, Umbreon
Heal Bell: Dragonite, Miltank
Haze/Roar: Weezing, Dragonite, Steelix, Donphan, Raikou
Pursuit: Houndoom
Self-Destruct/Explosion: Weezing, Steelix, Qwilfish, Regirock, Registeel
Baton Pass: Umbreon, Scizor

this post's original content

What's the best way to play BL when there's no spotlight ladder?

Regarding baton pass, I think it's broken only when someone uses it to pass speed. If completely banning baton pass is too much, then the best clause I can think of is not allowing baton pass on the a Pokemon that also has agility, dragon dance, speed boost, or maybe Salac berry. I don't think we need any ingrain bans if that gets implemented. Of course, I have never played a game of BL, so please correct me if you have real experience.

 

[Wenderz]

Just like with any tier which lacks a playable format on showdown, you need to find someone else who wants to play ADV BL, although you will technically play an ADV OU (or Uber) match. By the way, feel free to ask me if you hit me on PS.

Regarding Baton Pass, the Speed alone doesn't look like it's broken to me, although this is probably debatable. The best solution regarding this issue is in my opinion to apply the same clause for DPP and BW, which is the following:

• Baton Pass Clause: Teams may not have more than one Pokemon with Baton Pass in its moveset. Additionally, Speed + another stat may not be passed.

I think it would solve the problem without being too restrictive for Pokemon which need Baton Pass for something else. I have never faced a full Baton pass team in this tier myself, but I know that it's already a problem in OU, and in BL it looks like it would be even easier to pull off.

On a side note, I will probably add sample sets for each Pokemon which will be linked in the viability ranking, so you can hopefully have an easier time in teambuilding.

 

[sumwun]

I think you should make a group chat or a server on Showdown! so BL players can meet each other and play. I expect it to be almost always dead, but it's better than nothing.

 

[Wenderz]

As you said yourself, a dedicated group chat or server would probably be always dead. Besides, I don't know if I'll be allowed to ask for these, because there are probably criterias that I don't meet, and I'm not sure if we really need this for what is currently a dead metagame.

Nonetheless, you're probably right in the sense that people will an easier time discussing on a live chat. Therefore, I made a discord server, which seems to be the more appropriate plateform in my opinion. Feel free to join if you want to:

https://discord.gg/stCZkTJ

 

[sumwun]

I think we should allow Regice. It's even less viable than Raikou in OU right now. I'm pretty sure the only reason it hasn't dropped yet is because BKC hasn't given the official announcement, and that's a bad reason for us to ban something.

 

[Wenderz]

As you know, I'm totally in favor of Regice dropping, and I'm glad to see that tier shifts on Old Gens OU are a thing, especially when it's beneficial to other metagames like ADV BL.

It would make sense to me if Regice drops in BL, since Raikou just dropped, Moltres rose, it would make a clear cut-off on the current ADV OU VR. However, BKC told me on Discord that Regice's place in OU was brought up, but the council eventually disagreed on a drop for the most part.

Still, I don't know what was the reasoning behind this decision, and the thread dedicated to these tier shifts indicates that we're allowed to suggest other potential rises / drops. Thus, I made some arguments on Discord (on an unfitting server, I must admit) but didn't have any reply regarding Regice position. Therefore, if there's still room for this shift, I'd like to know what are the arguments in favor of Regice staying in OU, so we can adress these on this thread, on the discord server, or anywhere else which would be fit for this discussion (I don't have the permission to reply on the dedicated shift thread).

However, we have to keep in mind that this decision was taken regardless of how healthy Regice would be for the BL tier when discussing this matter. Although I and other people would be biased because we're making this suggestion for the sake of ADV BL, it cannot be used as an valid argument.

As a side note, I'm considering hosting a tournament soon, now that there is some knowledge and sources to support players.

 

[Dinosaur_Ryusaki]

If ADV BL can become a playable ladder tier, I vote for it.

 

[Hardboned]

I know that OU is based on usage but what exactly makes Moltres appealing enough to rise it into OU?

 

[sumwun]

I know that OU is based on usage but what exactly makes Moltres appealing enough to rise it into OU?

Tiering policy in a nutshell: A Pokemon (Moltres) rises into a tier whose name ends in "U" (ADV/RSE OU) only if it becomes popular or viable in the tier it's rising to. What happens in the lower tier (this thread) has nothing to do with rises. As I think I already told you, questions about old generations OU should be asked in their dedicated questions thread.

By the way, Pokemon rise to "BL" tiers using a very different process.

 

[Enigami]

I played quite a bit in a metagame really similar to this, except Moltres was legal, and Raikou wasn't.


Chansey, Registeel, Dragonite, Tauros (particularly CB), Vaporeon, Houndoom and the Legendary Birds were the top mons there, I expect things to be similar here. Moltres was fair in the tier, mons like Chansey and Vaporeon kept it in check quite well. Raikou though is very worrying because of Calm Mind, mons like Chansey, Venusaur, Lanturn and other Electrics will be hard pressed to check it, and basically all of those but Venusaur can be trapped and eliminated by Diglett.

Speaking of, here's a set for Diglett.
Diglett @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Aerial Ace
- Hidden Power [Bug]

Outspeeds up to Adamant Breloom, survives 2 Seismic Tosses, one shots Breloom/Electrics/Exeggutor without a LOT of Defense investment, and with >200 HP, it beats Chansey and defensive Registeels, two of the strongest defensive Pokemon available. If Registeel's Attack EVs are 108 or less, even Registeel's Earthquake is incapable of KOing Diglett before Diglett can KO back, and Diglett has a chance to 2HKO even 252/252+ Defense Registeel. Alternative spreads that can work are 160 HP / 200+ Atk / 148 Spe, which catches Jolly Breloom, but makes Diglett more vulnerable to Registeel's attacks, and it lets Chansey attempt to stall out Diglett with Toxic followed by Softboileds if Chansey is 252+ Def, and a basic 252 Atk / 252+ Spe set which can trap Nidoking and Houndoom/Jynx as well (Houndoom/Jynx is a speed tie) at the cost of being much less reliable at eliminating Chansey/Registeel. While Diglett isn't fast enough to directly deal with Raikou, Diglett can easily dispose of Raikous that don't invest sufficient speed, Raikous that lack super effective Hidden Powers, Raikous that are Resting and do not have Sleep Talk, and Raikous that are paralyzed. If Diglett is at all popular, it will help to keep Raikou in check by pressuring it to stick with sets that don't auto-lose to Diglett.

 

[Wenderz]

I think I know which metagame you're talking about.

Most of the Pokemon you mentioned are indeed top picks in ADV BL as well. I don't think that Moltres was broken either, just annoying with SubToxic. I've tested Raikou a fair bit and while it has been pretty effective, it wasn't overwhelming in my experience. It has a decent amount of checks, mainly Steelix and Quagsire, although both could be beaten by an offensive CM variant carrying HP Water or HP Grass, respectively. They're still reliable answers to SubCM with HP Ice, which is the most consistent variant of Raikou in my opinion. Chansey only truly has to worry about Rest variants, which aren't the easiest to pull off. Max SpA Lanturn can break Raikou's sub at +1 without investment in bulk and will usually be able to disable it with T-Wave. SpD Registeel isn't 3HKOed by +1 Tbolt and can potentially check it if carrying EQ, albeit by a less important margin than the aforementioned checks. Venusaur, unfortunately, isn't really suited to check Raikou unless you're running max HP / SpD and EQ, and even then you're not completely safe and you don't check Fighting-types nearly as well with it. Overall, I think that Raikou has enough counterplays to remain balanced in BL, and it's not like banning something was an option in a metagame called "BL"...It's nonetheless a threat to take into account and the tier would definitely appreciate Regice dropping to keep it and especially Alakazam in check.

Good call on Diglett, I had it to C. Trapping the likes of Registeel and Chansey can be very beneficial, but it faces some restrictions depending on its EVs ( not running Adamant makes a huge difference against Chansey, less than 236 EVs in Speed make it unable to deal with Jolly Blaziken and other 80s, you explained why it wants 200 in HP...) and can be useless in some match up. I don't think it would really help against Raikou since most will likely enough Speed to outrun Diglett and a super effective Hidden Power, I don't except Mono-attacker to be very popular even in a metagame without Diglett (though certainly usable), but Diglett still has some notable merits indeed.

 

[Wenderz]

Sorry for double post, but I just want to announce something: now that there are two bans regarding Baton Pass in ADV OU, consider that ADV BL will follow the same clauses from now on, which are the followings:
- Teams may not have more than three Pokemon with Baton Pass.
- Smeargle cannot have Baton Pass in its moveset.

Hopefully, this will solve the issues regarding this move.

Besides, I'd like to implement some shifts in the current viability ranking:

Raikou: New Pokemon -> A+
Qwilfish: C -> B+
Omastar B+ -> B
Smeargle B -> B-

Reasoning

I've tested Raikou a fair bit and I think it has established itself to sit in A+ with metagame defining Pokemon like Houndoom, Registeel, and Venusaur. It faces little to no competition as an offensive Electric-type, which make it pretty splashable since a lot of team want to have reliable way to immediately pressure Vaporeon. It usually find several moment to set up throughout the match due to its alright bulk and typing and can proceed to sweep from there. SubCM is probably its most consistent set, but Raikou is also decently versatile as it can lure in and 1v1 some of answers like Quagsire by using HP Grass or Chansey by running Rest. I don't think it's quite as threatening as Alakazam, but remains a Pokemon to keep in mind when teambuilding, as you would except from something in A+.

Huge rise for Qwilfish, but I think it's initial ranking was a mistake on my part. There aren't a lot of good Spikes setters in this tier, and despite its stats, Qwilfish is the most solid pick for this task. It sits at a pretty convenient Speed tier allowing it to outspeed Dragonite, Medicham, Venusaur, and Blaziken, backed up with a better typing than Omastar. The tier doesn't have many reliable answers to Fighting-types like Medicham and Machamp, and while Qwilfish is nowhere near as good as Weezing or Venusaur at handling these, it outspeeds, does a better job against most standard Blaziken, and threatens the opposing team with Spikes + Sefl-Destruct. The Toxic immunity also grants it more occasion to set up Spikes freely on tagrets like Vaporeon, Registeel, and Chansey. As everybody knows, Spikes are really good, and so is Qwilfish in ADV Bl.

In my opinion, Omastar lost its place as the best Spike setter available, and the drop reflects that. While it has better defensive stats, Qwilfish's typing and Speed grant it a more appealing defensive utility. In this regard, Omastar can only make use of its resistances to Flying and Normal (sometimes Fire) to switch on the likes of Dragonite and Tauros, but as a pure defnsive Rock-type it is completely outclassed by Regirock which doesn't take as much from EQ. Omastar can however adopt a more offensive approach as the most powerful Water-type, especially with Rain up. Unfortunately, Kingdra and Ludicolo tend to be more effective due to their better matchup against top tiers like Vaporeon and even Venusaur. Omastar still has some merits, but from what I've seen Qwilfish is better when it comes to lay down Spikes.

As one of the main target from the recent bans regarding Baton Pass, Smeargle took a significant hit in viability since it just lost one of its niche. It remains a good option as a Spikes setter, but Qwilfish's surge in viability is likely to have even more impact on its popularity. Sketch is certainly great, but the lack of defensive presence make it harder to fit on most teams.

As always, let me know if you have any suggestion or if you want to discuss those shifts.

 

[Arthur C Paes]

It appears UUBL has a chance of maybe being the next Comunity choice ladder, I hope it wins the vote so more people can start playing BL

 

[GlitchrE]

UUBL is now the community choice ladder, which is cool. Now my "high level play" UUBL teams are actually good!
There are a couple noms I want to make for the VR. Take these with a grain of salt, since it's theorymon (will test later & edit accordingly.)

Slowbro: B+ ---> A- or A

One role that stood out to me in all of Slowbro's arsenal is the Minicune set. Slowbro can already tank strong physical hits well, but with a Calm Mind set it's able to absorb special hits as well. You can basically apply everything Suicune uses to Slowbro, and it would be functionally similar. However, that is hard countered by Vaporeon! So Slowbro can opt for Psychic, which is also a great attacking type. This allows Slowbro to pick its counters; Psychic can hit Vaporeon, whereas Surf nails the best Pursuiter in the tier, Houndoom, at +1.
Unfortunately, Vaporeon can completely nullify Slowbro with the stall-centered Haze and the more utilizable Roar, although Roar variants do get hit with the extra Psychic. Umbreon has ridiculous special bulk and can tank most Surfs.

It's still very fearsome when its counters are removed. Worth moving up.

Dusclops: I know spinning is less prominent here but it's still useful and Dusclops is still the only UUBL Ghost type, maybe B or higher?

Breloom: B+ --> A-? not too sure on this one but Breloom is the best sleeper in the tier and it has a great offensive presence to make up for its lacking defensive presence, a useful asset to offense.

This post was mainly to sell you on Slowbro tbh. Glad this meta finally has a ladder so it can develop more.

 

[Arthur C Paes]

I also think Dusclops deserves to go up the rankings.
For one its a spin blocker, which isnt as important in BL but its worth mentioning and its honestly the best one.
Second of all, it counters alakazam while being imune to fighting, something almost no good pokemon can do (slowbro comes to mind as another one) while still being able to tank raikou's tbolts.
And when it gets in it can do a consistent 100 damage with seismic toss, spread burns or poison, hit some pokemon for decent damage with shadow ball (like alakazam, jynx, exegutor), use pain split as some recovery and you can even run sleep talk and make it your sleep switch in (it can switch in to the most common sleep users such as venusaur, exeggutor, jynx, breloom if it lacks hp ghost).
Thus, I think it should be moved up from B- to B or maybe even B+

 

[GlitchrE]

Dusclops can't counter a CM Zam if it gets a boost before the turn Dusclops switches in:

+1 252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Dusclops: 142-168 (50 - 59.1%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

However, I fully agree that Dusclops should move up as Spikers like Qwilfish move up, because spinblocking is still needed in a meta with more spinners than OU (hitmontop is best spinner change my mind) and there's no Gengar that you can use on offensive teams like in OU. To be fair, the spinners are worse, but so are the spikers. Dusclops also has a number of good roles not limited to speedblocking, like status (Toxic + WoW), Calm Mind (works well with Imprison), etc. B or B+ seems fair.

Going more in-depth on Breloom nom:

Breloom: B+ --> A-

Yeah, I don't agree with this anymore. Breloom has some great versatility in its sets: SubPunch + Spore, SubSD, SubSeed, Sleeper (notice all the "sub" mentions), and it has great Attack, but it's so frail and slow compared to the rest of the tier that it's robbed of the consistency of the A tiers, and furthermore can't utilize it's Grass typing, which hurts it a lot. B+ seems right.

This meta is fun to theorymon for. Good and varied meta, more people should play it.

 

[Arthur C Paes]

Dusclops can't counter a CM Zam if it gets a boost before the turn Dusclops switches in:

+1 252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Dusclops: 142-168 (50 - 59.1%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

While it is true that alakazam 2HKOs dusclops at +1 disclops OHKOs alakazam with shadow ball so as long as you keep it fairly healthy it can switch in to alakazam even on a calm mind
36 Atk Dusclops Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 255-300 (101.1 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Wenderz]

I will probably update the VR towards the end of the month, after looking at the ladder and related stats (though it would be nice if I manage tto get more games...). Nonetheless, I'm going to comment your nominations:

B -> B+ / A-: Fully agree with this, Slowbro's typing and bulk let it handle some of the biggest threats in the metagame such as Alakazam, Blaziken, Medicham (Shadow Ball hurts though), Dragonite if you're running Ice Beam, most Fighting-types and physical attacker in general. Thus, it is very splashable, and can turn into a dangerous wincon with Calm Mind since it weaknesses aren't too easy to exploit. However, it lacks a reliable recovery move, is susceptible to Pursuit without Calm Minds under its belt, and has to compete with the overall more consistent Vaporeon, which lasts longer and tanks super effective Hidden Powers with much more efficiency. Still, Slowbro's defensive utility is a huge boon for a lot of teams, and make it worthy of A- in my opinion.

B- -> B : Not really sold on this one. Dusclops's bulk and access to WoW are certainly some major perks over the likes of Misdreavus and Sableye, but it doesn't look like it's that much better to me. Specially defensive is still a kinda shaky check to Zam due to how much it takes from Psychic, although sometimes it's all you need, but that means you're giving up physical bulk to effectively spinblock Donphan and to a lesser extent Armaldo, as well as the Fighting- and Normal-types that it's supposed to keep in check despite their potential Shadow Ball / HP Ghost. I'm not sure if Dusclops really is the best spinblocker available, because it takes quite a significant amount from Donphan's EQ, whereas Misdreavus benefits from Levitate which is also useful against other Normal-types and Spikes. Moreover, I find Dusclops's bulk to be fairly unimpressive when it has no reliable recovery. I wouldn't consider RestTalk due to ADV mechanics and dropping EQ or Focus Punch when Houndoom is a top pick seems too risky for me. Finally, Dusclops is passive and hard to fit outside of stall teams since it really wants some support against residual damages and outperformed in most defensive tasks. With all that being said, I think that B and B- Pokemon are pretty close in term of viability since they all belong in a category like "Good potential, but hold back by some glaring weaknesses", but I still don't think that Dusclops is among the best in this regard.

Once again, I will implement updates when I have ladder stats, experience, and maybe replay to back me up. In the meantime, feel free to discuss about what you want regarding the metagame. I may share some other nominations I have in mind later, I posted most of these on discord already.

 

[sumwun]

I think Donphan should move up to B (or Armaldo should move down; I just don't want them in the same rank) for the simple reason that Omastar, Qwilfish, and Dusclops all have a slightly more difficult time switching and staying in against Donphan. Unless Armaldo has some other niche, Donphan seems like it would usually be the superior rapid spinner.

Edit: Usage stats for the past month, including this format, are now out. You can see what Pokemon, moves, and leads other people used on the ladder. I don't expect this to get a ladder for a long time, so these usage stats will probably be a helpful resource until then.

 

[Wenderz]

The UUBL ladder is now over and with have replays and usage stats. Thus, I'm going to make nominations regarding the VR:

Rises:
-

B -> A-: Already touched on this.
-

A- -> A: Raikou and Alakazam are very common threats that are important to handle. Chansey is probably of the only Pokemon able to keep both of these in check alongside SpDef Registeel, which doesn't have a reliable recovery to constantly stop what it's supposed to check throughout the match andas a consequence can be overwhelm more easily. Chansey also brings utility when as a cleric and can pivot into statues thanks to Natural Cure, not to mention that she has other tricks like Counter that she can pull off much like her counterpart Blissey in OU. She's certainly very passive and the special attackers that she'sdesigned to counterhave their own way to potentially play around her, but she remains a safe answer to these most of the time, making her pretty splashable as reflected by her usage.

-

B -> B+: Outspeeding and OHKOing Alakazam is a niche on its own. CB Crobat can also revenge kill Raikou and +1 Adamant Dragonite, and its typing allows it to potentially pivot on Fighting- and Grass-types. It's lack of firepower and subpar coverage certainly hold it back as it is pretty easy to switch into, but the potential poison induced by Sludge Bomb can still make up for its average Attack stat in some situation. B tier is filled with Pokemon with some good potential, but suffering from glaring weaknesses. Crobat is no exception, but in my opinion it's more splashable than the rest of B and thus would fit better in B+.

-

B- -> B: While I think that Omastar is overrated, we're still in ADV and Spikes are very popular here. As suggested by sumwun in the above post, Donphan is one of the best spinners the tier has to offer despite its Water weakness since its STAB EQ threatens both of Omastar and Qwilfish, it also outspeeds the former. Its EV spread can be tweaked depending on what you needs. SpDef can swallow a Surf from standard Omastar as well as two Hydro Pump from Jolly Qwilmfish or 2 two HP Ice from Raikou, allowing to essentially keep these in check, whereas an a physically defensive Donphan avoids the 2HKO from strong wallbreakers like CB Medicham, Tauros, and Dragonite. Donphan has been pretty common from what I've seen, and I think it's important enough to be worthy of a rise.

-

B- -> B: Tentacruel may be an even more reliable spinner than Donphan due to its great matchup against Omastar and Qwilfish. Druidcruel can also freely set up on most Vaporeon while offering an Offensive check to most Water- and Fire-type that is immune to Toxic, which allows Tentacruel to further distinguish itself from other bulky Waters. Liquid Ooze can also prove to be useful against Venusaur. Tentacruel is however much easier to handle in UUBL than it is in UU and its Defense stats coupled with its EQ weakness means that it cannot check things like Dragonite and Rhydon, something you typically would want from your Water-type, but it still offers a unique set of features that justifies its use.

-

C -> B- : Despite its stats, Swellow is actually stronger than Crobat by virtue of its STAB in Double-Edge, which does significantly more damage to things like Raikou than Crobat's Sludge Bomb. Taking advantage of Guts means that Swellow can turn into a stronger and faster Tauros. It certainly has to compete with more consistent Pokemon, but I don't think that Swellow should be too far away from Crobat in the rankings.

-

UR -> C: Not as strong or fast as other Normal-type, but the prevalence of sleep inducing moves makes Early Bird a very useful ability, and Kangaskhan is one of the bulkiest things that can abuse it. Carrying Rest means that it can serve as a decent pivot to statues and can check quite a lot of passive Pokemon with this.

-

UR -> C- : Has to compete with gardevoir which already faces a lot of competition due to the glaring weakness to Houndoom that Hypno shares as well. Still, a good ability in Insomnia coupled witha better bulk overall means that Hypno can serve as a counter to Alakazam and can check a lot of other stuff thanks to its resistance to Fighting and special bulk, but it's passive and easy to abuse.

-

UR -> C-: Arthur Paes andpasy_g made a good case on this mon as unlike Diglett it can 2HKO Chansey (it's still slower though and is suseptible to get Toxic stalled, but not without leaving a dent on Chansey), take an HP Ice from raikou if EV'ed correctly, and can eliminate Reversal / Flail users with Quick Attack. I'm still a bit skeptical but I can understand why people would want to see Trapinch ranked.

I'm going to nominate drops and other points of discussion later. Feel free to share your thoughts in the meantime.

 

[Arthur C Paes]

Linoone UR -> C: Linoone's main use is as a a sweeper that can come in when the both teams are already weakened and sweep. With the lum berry and correct evs (100 HP / 252 Atk / 140 SpD / 16 Spe) it can set up on: vaporeon (unless its offensive), dusclops, weezing (unless it explodes), registeel (unless it explodes), quagsire, chansey, defensive miltank and defensive slowbro. Once set up it can do alot of damage with extreme speed, +6 252+ Atk Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 375-442 (80.8 - 95.2%). Shadow ball amd hidden power ground hits everything else for super effective or neutral damage. Its good speed stat and extreme speeds priority also allows it to speed scizors and trapinchs quick attacks and breloom's mach punch. It can also finish off weakened mons with extreme speed before you decide to set up and sweep.
Now, this mon is only c rank because it has a few weaknesses. Firstly it provides no defensive utility, especially since it needs its health to be able to set up, it struggles with things like steelix, regirock and scizor as even at +6 they barely get 2HKoed, and it does need chip on most walls (probably want to use it with spikes)
Scyther UR -> C+: This mons main role is as a 1hp sweeper, and it does it quite well. Its great speed allows it to out speed everything at +1 and quite alot of pokemon at +0. Its main set should be endure / swords dance / reversal / hp flying. All it needs is 1 turn to set up with swords dance and then to endure itself to 1hp to become very powerful, +2 252+ Atk Scyther Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 418-492 (90 - 106%). The weakness of quite a few physical walls to fighting (steelix, regirock, registeel) allows scyther to Ohko all of them. Hp flying is used against fighting resists and the rare ghost types. It ohkos Venusaur with it and deals around 80% to dragonite. It does struggle againt weezing though, as it doesnt even 2hko. It can switch in to predicted fighting moves and scare them out, along with any choice banded ground moves, but apart from that it isnt switching into much (as preserving your health + lum berry is important to set up). It loses to all priority except fake out, as it can use endure to survive it.

 

[Arthur C Paes]

Also is D rank really necessary? All it has is a pre evo to a S rank mon, and I doubt any would use both on a team, so I dont see why we need a D rank at all. I think C- should be the lowest tier tbh