ADV OU Bellypass
I thought about making a thread similar to this one for a long time now, probably ever since ADV got kicked out of Smogon Tour. I never really got around to it until now, though, partly because I didn't care enough to actually do it and partly because the team never really felt... complete. However, in the past months I've noticed that this team is, to this day, a work-in-progress, not to mention that some people either have problems using it or facing it in every ADV tour I've ever spectated. Because of that, I figured now is as good of a time as ever to fill people in on how to beat and/or pilot this team efficiently. Do note that this thread is probably gonna be way longer than necessary, I just love honing my English writing skills and I've never been one to withhold information anyway.
I began working on this team some time in 2012 or 2013, making it by far one of my longest running teams. I've been known to run teams that work for me for extremely long periods of time, and even though this went through some massive changes since then, I've always enjoyed playing with this team a lot and feel like it is probably one of the best teams I've ever made for any metagame. The original idea started with me being fed up that people such as Bloo/McMeghan/Ojama farmed points in Smogon Tour using basically nothing but SkarmBliss, and consequentially me wanting an easy solution to the problem. Amusingly enough, stallish teams or at least modern stallish utilizing things such as fast Gengar and Starmie are actually one of the worst matchups for this team, but I'll get to that later.
Back then, I used Subpar receivers such as Gengar and Medicham, although Zapdos/Smeargle/Aerodactyl/Cradily were already part of the original lineup I believe. The team has, as already mentioned, evolved a lot since then, and now there's countless different options to deal with pretty much everything thrown at it, although not all in one single team of 6 Pokemon. Rather, the team is unique in that its structure is Zapdos/Smeargle/X/X/X/X, meaning that you can literally use whichever 4 receivers you'd like to use, as they all have their own niches and beat their own stuff. Smeargle and, in my opinion, Zapdos are always integral to the strategy of the team, though, as it's extremely difficult to get off a successful pass without Zapdos, and obviously impossible without Smeargle. That said, time to look at the team in greater detail.
THE LEAD
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt / Shock Wave
- Substitute / Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roar
Zapdos is, without a doubt, the best lead for this team. It keeps Phazers out for the most part (apart from Jolteon, the occasional Raikou and Steelix, although HP Ice does a lot to Steelix and weakens it for the rest of the team so that's fine), and has actually a pretty good lead matchup considering the final goal of the team. I usually play Zapdos like a suicide lead, using its instant offensive pressure to force in Pokemon such as Snorlax/Tyranitar/Blissey/Swampert once I reveal HP Ice, let it die to those, and then bring Smeargle in to do its thing on those Pokemon. Thunderbolt is the obvious STAB choice to keep Skarmory/Suicune off the field, but after getting frustrated with Thunderbolt paralysis against the likes of Tyranitar and Snorlax (meaning Smeargle can't Spore them), I have been trying out Shock Wave for a little bit. It's obviously quite a bit weaker, but it still 2HKOs Skarmory and 3HKOs Suicune, and not having to worry about accidental paralysis helps the team a lot in being long-term consistent. For what it's worth, it also still puts Metagross lead (without Leftovers) into range for +6 HP Steel, one of the few offensive Pokemon that can actually live a +6 HP Steel from my own Metagross.
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt / Shock Wave
- Substitute / Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roar
The other moves probably aren't quite as self explanatory; both Substitute and Thunder Wave are okay options in the second moveslot. Substitute is nice against Metagross leads as almost none of them carry Rock Slide unless they're Choice Banded (in which case you can just let Zapdos die on the spot and start the magic), and if they're not they'll either switch out or just blow up most of the time. Thunder Wave, on the other hand, gives me another out against Jolteon and Raikou who love to come in on Zapdos, letting me hope for a full para with Smeargle instead of just getting kinda dumpstered (although prediction can also beat them). Hidden Power [Ice] OHKOs Salamence and Flygon, both of which are almost guaranteed to be faster than Smeargle and obviously just kill it in one hit. I've considered HP Fire as well, as Forretress can be quite annoying, but after killing off quite a few Salamence I just stuck with HP Ice. Roar is probably Zapdos' most important move as it means stuff like DDTar and Snorlax can't just set up on me with impunity; Lum DDTar pretty much just 6-0s me if it's in on Roarless Zapdos. Also a nice move to force more favorable matchups if I'm faced with Jolteon or Raikou. All in all the strategy with Zapdos mostly relies on me having a matchup that's good for Smeargle, letting it die, and then going to town with...
THE PASSER
Smeargle @ Salac Berry
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Spore
- Belly Drum
- Baton Pass
Smeargle @ Salac Berry
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Spore
- Belly Drum
- Baton Pass
The king himself. A necessity on this team. As necessary as Smeargle is, it kinda fucking sucks. 273 Speed isn't nearly as much as you want, its bulk is unacceptable, and its typing grants it absolutely no free switchins, which is why Zapdos is kind of a necessity (no I'm not going to switch in on a Snorlax predicting Shadow Ball). Once it's in on something it can abuse, though, which basically means every slower Pokemon that is not holding a Lum Berry or carrying Sleep Talk (unless you get lucky rolls), there's nothing bar Haze or a 1 turn sleep that can really prevent a pass from happening. The usual order of moves is Sub -> Spore -> Belly Drum -> BP, and should only be altered if you are 100% sure your opponent doesn't have Roar/Whirlwind/Perish Song as you'll just get hit by one of those if you Spore -> Sub -> Drum, or don't get the Salac Berry if you forgo Substitute (unless theres Spikes and/or Sand, but I'll get to that). Generally, Spore -> Sub -> Drum is only something you want to do if they have heavy offensive pressure and you absolutely need to get off a pass against that Metagross in front of you for something, which isn't possible if you go Sub -> Spore -> Drum because they'll just blow up on your Substitute, force you out, and then you're left helpless as there's absolutely no way you'll get 2 opportunities against a skilled player. But, again, this order of moves leaves you helpless against any sort of Pseudo-Hazing, so make sure you know what you're doing. There's really not much else to say about Smeargle; the spread means it lives 4 turns of sand which means you can sacrifice Zapdos to, say, Tyranitar lead, bring in Smeargle and just go for either of those two sequences as you'll live with exactly 2 HP. It also means that, if you face a Forretress lead, you can kill it with Zapdos (TBolt -> Sub ->TBolt -> TBolt in case of boom), and regardless of how many Spikes it gets up, get a Spore into Drum with Smeargle if they send in Tyranitar after Forry's demise and activate sand. Apart from that, I wish there was a different Pokemon that could do this, but I'm pretty sure nothing would beat out 100% guaranteed Sleep anywhere so there is that. Now the question is, what do you do with +6 Attack and +1 Speed? And that's what the next section will be about.
THE RECEIVERS
So, first of all, what makes a good receiver? A good receiver should either be able to be a reliable recipient against a large amount of Pokemon (Aerodactyl, Metagross) or have a niche that sets it apart from every other Pokemon (Aggron, Cradily, Exploud, Nidoking). Furthermore, they should be able, regardless of which category they fall under, to OHKO every offensive Pokemon, if possible with perfect accuracy, and either OHKO defensive Pokemon or shut them down some other way. Important defensive Pokemon include Skarmory, Suicune, Forretress (if you don't resist Explosion), Swampert, Celebi, Claydol (not really important but being walled by this is probably the worst thing ever). Furthermore, you need to carry moves specifically to hit Pokemon with amazing typings that shrug off your "regular" moves. For example, unless you're using CB Aerodactyl over Lum (which actually doesn't sound bad on paper but we'll get to why it's bad when we get to why Metagross is so good), you need Double-Edge to hit both Flygon and Claydol. DE is a great move anyway, and Aerodactyl definitely wants it on the set, but even if it was weaker than EQ/Rock move you'd need it for the coverage. Pinsir, which isn't listed here but which I'll get to later as well, needs a very specific setup to handle all the Pokemon it wants to in Focus Punch/Earthquake/Hidden Power Ghost/Double-Edge. Those are just some general guidelines, and not all Pokemon have access to that specific last coverage move (and some like Metagross just break the rule anyway) because oftentimes Taunt/Roar/Focus Punch is a necessity just for Skarmory, but you better have a really good reason not to have "perfect" coverage. So without further ado:
Aerodactyl @ Lum Berry
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Def / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Taunt
Cons: Not much else to pass against because of terrible defensive typing and natural bulk (Explosion from non CBGross and Lax Selfdestruct are basically guaranteed kills), affected by Intimidate, not enough power to OHKO Max/Max+ Suicune so has to play 50 50s against Roar
What to bring it out against: Basically limited to Gengar/Blissey and, by extension, status moves as the description says. Pretty much any Jirachi/Celebi set, although Leech Seed + smart playing can potentially wear you down. Also works against some attackers using ground moves to a certain extent, but mispredicts will almost always kill Aero (CBMence, Tyranitar, Marowak, Metagross, Aerodactyl). Good against confirmed Lax w/o Selfdestruct.
This used to be my go-to passer, but recently it's just fallen off because of several factors, Intimidate and people naturally adapting to this team being the main causes. It's rare that someone actually doesn't know what this team does and sending out Gengar for me to get a free pass against, so most of the time Aerodactyl will just be dead weight as I'm forced to BP to something else against Skarmory/Metagross/etc.
Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Steel]
- Explosion
OR
Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 192 HP / 112 Atk / 204 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Steel]
- Explosion
Cons: Only 85 accuracy on the move it wants to use the most, does not OHKO defensive Suicune even with the former spread, can't have the power from the first spread and bulk from the second spread at once, Ground weakness can make it hard to pass to against a competent opponent knowing the team, does not outspeed Aerodactyl/Jolteon at +1, weak to Shedinja if locked
What to bring it out against: A lot of stuff, most physical/mixed attackers are a safe bet especially with the second spread, think Aerodactyl/Tyranitar/Salamence/Snorlax/Metagross. Watch out for Boom into Jolt/Aero follow-up with the latter two. Good recipient vs Celebi too, as well as Jirachi if you aren't scared of Body Slam, although Aerodactyl is better against those two if you have it.
This is usually my go-to passer nowadays. HP Steel came to me as an idea less than a month ago when I was thinking about how to be better against offensive teams with Aerodactyl in particular, which is also where the second spread came from. The idea is that HP Steel still OHKOs everything up to the bulk of 252/0 Zapdos, and 4/0 Suicune is still a roll so it's extremely good against your usual physical offense team with Tyranitar/Metagross/Aero assuming there's no Magneton and you can weaken the Metagross a bit. Better than relying on MMash's accuracy, at least. You do miss out on a few notable KOs though, even using Meteor Mash, such as 252/252+ Swampert (3/16 chance to OHKO instead of approximately 3/4), 252/16+ Skarmory (50% roll instead of guaranteed kill), and bulky Magneton pretty much always lives while bulky Metagross has a chance to. Everything else is either irrelevant like Forretress and Milotic (chance) or lives regardless (252/252+ Suicune). In return, 192 HP allows you to switch into Rock Slide from Jolly Aero and live the follow-up EQ while also living Dragon Claw from max SAtk Rash Salamence + EQ from Aero afterwards, guaranteed. I've tested it for a while and I really like the extra insurance for Aerodactyl, but the first set is still alright if you want raw power. Metagross, as far as I'm concerned, is the only Pokemon that can viably run Choice Band because of its ridiculous power, a powerful STAB type that has no immunities, a typing + bulk combo that can afford to switch into non-status moves, and immunity to Intimidate. Stuff like CB Aerodactyl is not only harder to pass to but also way easier to shut down, so I don't really consider them viable on this style of team because they're outclassed for the most part.
Aggron @ Salac Berry
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Endure
- Double-Edge
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
Cons: Horrible Special Defense means it can't be used to pass into Pokemon such as Magneton at all, no inherent stop to Intimidate + Skarmory, reliance on Salac means that smart plays can beat it, really susceptible to status before Salac because of its bad speed tier, 4x weakness to ground, does not OHKO 252/252+ Suicune and can't prevent Roar either (although Surf OHKOs guaranteed even from uninvested Suicune)
What to bring it out against: Mostly save it for the physical exploders, mostly Snorlax and Metagross, although it can be brought out vs some physical attackers as well if your team demands it (no Metagross making this the best switch-in, etc), CB Heracross locking into any non Fighting move. Irritating CB Slaking/Dodrio/stuff like that with prediction, EQ from Slaking mauls you but you live Earthquakes up to 324 attack guaranteed. Not really sure when that could come in handy, but if you ever face Jolly non CB Aerodactyl for some reason it could come in handy I suppose.
One of the newer additions to this team, after losing time and time again to Explosion. My original thought was using either Regirock or Banette instead, but both of them had issues (not enough power in Regirock's case, against bulky waters in particular, and a lot of stuff in Banette's case). Aggron makes an amazing Explosion absorber, and even ridiculously powerful Explosions like CB Metagross won't really leave a dent. DE/RS/EQ basically OHKOs everything that's not, again, Max/Max+ Suicune or Skarmory/Swampert backed by Intimidate, so it's got plenty of power. Enduresalac kinda sucks, but you lose to too much stuff without Salac, even when running Jolly (Max Speed Salamence/Jirachi/Celebi/Zapdos, Gengar, Starmie, Aerodactyl, Jolteon, just to name a few), so this is probably the best way to go about it.
Cradily @ Lum Berry / Salac Berry
Ability: Suction Cups
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
Pros: The only Pokemon apart from Octillery and Lileep to switch into Skarmory with impunity Whirlwind, covers Roar to a certain degree as well, immune to Sand, alright SpDef
Cons: Needs Salac Berry to outspeed Aerodactyl/Gengar/Starmie/Jolteon/Dugtrio/Flygon/EVERYTHING, too weak to come anywhere close to OHKOing Swampert/Suicune/Flygon, Intimidate cuts its awful attack stat even more, unable to switch into Skarmory 100% without the Lum Berry, no useful resists at all
What to bring it out against: Skarmory. That's pretty much it, unless there's a Pokemon with Roar out and you don't have Cradily. Cradily's speed, defenses, and typing are way too bad to send it out against anything else, not to mention that you either aren't protected against status or revenge killing. Basically, the Salac Berry version can't come in against Skarmory guaranteed but if it comes in on Whirlwind there's little stall can do to prevent a loss, whereas Lum Berry is a 100% pass to Cradily but gets revenge killed way more easily by "modern", faster stall (Flygon, Gengar, Starmie, stuff like that)
As much as Cradily used to be the centerpiece of the team, it really really fell off recently. Being forced into a tough item choice is bad enough, but having a completely deadweight Pokemon against any team without Skarmory, a single Pokemon, is just as terrible. If you do however get the pass off against defensive teams, there should be nothing standing in the way of this beast, and that's reason enough to keep it as a mainstay.
Cons: Needs Salac Berry to outspeed Aerodactyl/Gengar/Starmie/Jolteon/Dugtrio/Flygon/EVERYTHING, too weak to come anywhere close to OHKOing Swampert/Suicune/Flygon, Intimidate cuts its awful attack stat even more, unable to switch into Skarmory 100% without the Lum Berry, no useful resists at all
What to bring it out against: Skarmory. That's pretty much it, unless there's a Pokemon with Roar out and you don't have Cradily. Cradily's speed, defenses, and typing are way too bad to send it out against anything else, not to mention that you either aren't protected against status or revenge killing. Basically, the Salac Berry version can't come in against Skarmory guaranteed but if it comes in on Whirlwind there's little stall can do to prevent a loss, whereas Lum Berry is a 100% pass to Cradily but gets revenge killed way more easily by "modern", faster stall (Flygon, Gengar, Starmie, stuff like that)
As much as Cradily used to be the centerpiece of the team, it really really fell off recently. Being forced into a tough item choice is bad enough, but having a completely deadweight Pokemon against any team without Skarmory, a single Pokemon, is just as terrible. If you do however get the pass off against defensive teams, there should be nothing standing in the way of this beast, and that's reason enough to keep it as a mainstay.
Exploud @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Shadow Ball
- Earthquake
- Taunt
Cons: Can't absorb status because being hit by sand necessity Leftovers, no notable resists means most STAB moves 2HKO, susceptible to Intimidate, slower than Aerodactyl/Jolteon
What to bring it out against: Exploud is actually pretty useful, way more useful than Cradily, just because Roar is seen way more often than just Whirlwind. That said, Roar is also seen a lot with Spikes and, more importantly, Aerodactyl, so a misprediction means you'll lose to something like Zap TBolt + Aerodactyl. Still, Exploud can at least try to hold off pretty much every Roar user, even Jolteon with correct prediction. Shouldn't be brought in against much else, although you do get free-ish passes against stuff like Jirachi/Celebi/Salamence. You'll lose a LOT of health, but that's free enough. Celebi is a good one if you expect it to Perish Song, though.
One of the "older" members, after the initial prototype of the team but before the new additions such as Aggron and Nidoking, it's always been hard to part ways with something that just stops Roar completely in its tracks. Although you mostly have to block Roar against less experienced players (as better players usually either won't bother or click an attack move instead), making it not as useful in high level play. Still, not having any notable weaknesses is a pretty cool trait, especially backed by what is actually a pretty nice amount of base HP (paired with atrocious defenses), so it's not like Exploud is useless even outside of that. There's usually just better options. Oh, and it also beats Perish Song, which nothing else can do either!
Nidoking @ Lum Berry
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 Atk / 20 Def / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt
Pros: Can switch into any attack from electric types bar Roar with impunity, can switch into any fighting move in the game that's not CB Medicham's Focus Punch, guaranteed switchin to Heracross, Rock resist, immune to sand, outspeeds Aerodactyl, switches into Gengar except for Explosion
Cons: Susceptible to Intimidate, Ground weakness, doesn't always OHKO Max/Max+ Suicune (but at least has a reasonable, around 50 percent chance unlike everything else)
What to bring it out against: Mostly Electrics and Fighting moves, and stuff like Tyranitar in a pinch I suppose. I wouldn't really switch it into that much else because of its mediocre typing + defensive stats, but it definitely has enough defense to live hits that aren't super-effective AND stab boosted (think Modest Blissey, Porygon2, Gengar Ice Punch, etc).
The small list of Cons compared to Pros should tell you that I really like Nidoking, and I do. It has just enough bulk to switch into stuff that's not STAB + SE, it's immune to Electric attacks, sand, outspeeds Aerodactyl, and has just enough of a punch to OHKO a ton of stuff. Also finally being mostly Hera-proof is something I've wanted on this team for a long time. I should also note that Shadow Ball is just barely strong enough to OHKO 188/0 Flygon, barely meaning that HP Ghost definitely wouldn't do the same. Not having any "real", broad niche is kinda disappointing (Explosion, Roar, WW), but Nidoking definitely has his permanent place on this team.
THE REJECTS
Below are a few Pokemon that I've been experimenting with and that, for one reason or another, don't make great receivers (most of the time; there's some exceptions to the rule where the Pokemon itself is a really good recipient but has one glaring flaw, such as Gligar). There's probably a lot more to be discovered, but these are the ones I've been either actively testing or at least theorymonning with.
Medicham (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 30 Atk / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Brick Break
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- High Jump Kick / Focus Punch
Gengar @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 224 Def / 32 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Brick Break
Pinsir @ Silk Scarf / Lum Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Earthquake
- Focus Punch
Gligar @ Soft Sand / Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Double-Edge
Jolteon @ Lum Berry
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roar
- Swagger
THE COUNTERS
These Pokemon/Strategies, for one reason or another, do extremely well against the team, regardless of the version. You'll probably either have to hope for misplays or severely outplay via double switching, etc (or hope for luck) to win. Bellypass is almost impossible to shut down completely, but here's the things that can try:
Weezing and Haze in general
Faster Baton Pass
Amusingly enough, Baton Pass is actually extremely good at screwing this team up, with Ninjask in particular being able to accumulate numerous speed boosts against even boosted targets and then passing it all to something that just sweeps me. User: McMeghan did this to me with a combination of Ninjask + Rhydon a few times and, unless you predict perfectly when they'll pass to said Rhydon, there's really not much you can do. Other Pokemon that live boosted hits such as Metagross and Tyranitar obviously work too.
Fast Electrics
These guys are extremely dangerous, as they both make prime switchins to Zapdos and proceed to wreak havoc from there. I usually have to hope they don't know my team, sac Zapdos, go to Aero, and then double to Smeargle on whatever their response is. It's extremely risky but apart from putting TWave on Zapdos and then cheesing them, Jolteon and Zapdos are really annoying in that regard.
Naturally fast teams
Mostly referring to CM Spam and such here, although fast DD Spam teams are equally as dangerous just because their slow members are more likely to run Lum Berry (Tyranitar, Metagross). CM Spam, especially with Timid Suicune, is another extremely difficult matchup for this team to overcome but, thankfully, Timid Suicune seems to be pretty rare. Can't really pass to any Pokemon if you can't get a Belly Drum off, and 4-5 faster Pokemon is mostly a hard counter to this team.
Status curing berries
I already went over these a few times, but they'll easily foil any attempt to sleep something -> you won't get a pass off at all. Lum Berry Metagross, Tyranitar, Medicham as well as Chesto Berry Heracross all rely on CB Metagross forcing them out/building up pressure against them early so Smeargle can hopefully come in on something slower without a berry. Lots of prediction involved, and definitely a tough one to handle. Sleep Talkers can be in the same boat, but the ones that only have one attack (Suicune, Snorlax) aren't really that dangerous whereas the ones with 2 attacks (Swampert, Magneton, Regice) still need to predict whether I Spore or Sub first with Smeargle, so I'm usually at least halfway fine.
Extremely Bulky Pokemon
Some Pokemon, such as Suicune and Donphan, are so ridiculously bulky that they have no problem even taking +6 boosted Double-Edges from Aero and such and can promptly kill me (assuming I was weakened), or Roar me out. Thankfully, absolute max defense Suicune is quite rare nowadays and Donphan is quite rare anyway, but I consider Max/Max+ Cune if played well pretty much an autoloss.
THE OUTRO
Like I said (and as many people probably noticed), this has been my favorite ADV team to use for a long time now. It feels like it's constantly a work in progress, especially ever since the Sleep Talk change brought down the usage of some of its old counters. If you guys have any suggestions (both for what to add to this thread and for what else could make a good receiver), let me know! Thanks to all the people in my favorite Skype chat for trying to improve this team, in particular King Jirachee for giving me the Nidoking suggestion which actually worked like a charm... I think there were a few other people involved in that one (Anti?), but I unfortunately forgot. Either way, Nidoking wrecks. Hopefully this thread will give people some insight on what works both on and against this team, as I'm sure quite most people playing ADV have faced this team in one form or another by now. Thanks for reading.
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