Absol vs. Honchkrow

[EarthBender]

This thread is to discuss who is better as a physical sweeper: Absol or Honchkrow, two very similar pokemon.

Shared Attributes:
Dark-Type
STAB Pursuit
Super Luck
33% crit Night Slash
Relatively slow
Sucker Punch
Poor defenses
Thunder Wave

Honchkrow's Attributes:
Flying-STAB
Drill Peck
105 Base SAtk
71 Base Speed (the lowest possible to achieve 264 speed)
101 Subs
Nasty Plot
Calm Mind
More weaknesses
More resistances (like Earthquake)
Has a beard and is overall cooler :p

Absol's Attributes:
130 Base Atk against 125
75 Base Speed against 71
Stone Edge
Swords Dance
Worse defenses+HP combination
Less weaknesses
Less resistances

I personally think that Honchkrow is better. Unlike Absol, it can switch in to one of the most common CB moves (EQ) and force a switch, while getting a free CB STAB Pursuit in, or a Crit Night Slash on the incoming pokemon. I think that Life Orb/CB is the best way to go for both pokemon; Choice Scarf keeps them from doing their full share of damage. Without CB, you probably won't OHKO, and therefore will take a hit and die anyway.

So post our opinions!

 

[Footnote]

Since you're asking which one is the best physical sweeper, I think Absol's the better choice. It has a much better variety of physical moves, and at least five high-crit moves (although Slash and Razor Wind probably aren't making it onto a lot of sets and Razor Wind is special anyway). It's much more versatile in general.

Honchkrow does have more staying power. That 100 base HP goes a long way toward mitigating its terrible defenses. With 105 in Sp. Attack, it seems a shame not to make it a mixed sweeper, though.

I voted both because I think it mostly depends on the rest of your team.

 

[chewy]

Absol gets the ever sexy Baton Pass. 101 HP subs don't mean much on Honchkrow, seeing as how every Blissey carries Ice Beam for the chompster these days.

 

[spydiman]

Both of them suck i think. Absol's better physical sweeper though.

 

[Misty]

Neither Pokemon can really switch into anything, except Psychics, and Honchkrow can switch into Earthquakes.

Both Pokemon are really slow... both Pokemon reach 265, so Choice Scarf is a good option on both. If you want something a little more deadly, Choice Band is just about as effective on both.

Movepool... Honchkrow gets STAB Drill Peck, hurting Fighting types and most Dark types. They both get Pursuit, Sucker Punch, and Blade Test as far as STABs go. On the side, Honchkrow gets Steel Wing, which helps with its Tyranitar problem. Absol gets Psycho Cut, X-Scissor, Stone Edge, and a bunch of semi-useful special attacks.

Setup... yeah, Honchkrow gets Nasty Plot and Absol gets Swords Dance, but neither has a chance in hell with sweeping with said moves. I'd probably use Choice items.


Conclusion: Absol's movepool is amazing. X-Scissor/Fire Blast/Night Slash/Psycho Cutter hurts a lot of stuff. On the other hand, the likelihood of it coming in is virtually nil. Honchkrow, meanwhile, comes with a nice EQ immunity, and his HP is good, so it can probably come in Dark attacks in addition to Psychic and Ground. Sadly, a CBtar Crunch is just a bit too much (it's a 2hko). However, Honchkrow's movepool is very poor - after Drill Peck, its most notable non-Dark move is Steel Wing (which, to be fair, hurts Tyranitar quite a bit).

I guess both Pokemon have something to note about them - to be sure, I think both have a shot at BL. But the ultimate fact is that low defenses + low speed means neither is going to really impress.

 

[Synre]

It almost seems like they made Honchkrow with the intention of it using Choice Scarf with it's speed like that, and because of the two immunities I would probably use it over Absol so I could at least get in occasionally although given that nearly everything with Earthquake also has Stone Edge that /Flying might as much of a curse as it is a blessing.

I can't see either of them ever having much impact in OU but Honchkrow should be really solid in BL/UU I think. Of course in that tier I'd probably rather have a bird with a choice band...

 

[Hrothgar]

Honchkrow's Attributes:
Has a beard and is overall cooler :p

I think that this says it all; the only reason people are even considering using Honchkrow is because they think he's "cool". It really isn't all that great of a pokemon and will be lucky if it makes it out of UU.

I want to say Absol is better due to that awesome movepool, but the likely truth is that they are equal. :|

 

[Sir Spanky]

Both suck. Great attack stats, but poor STAB and very subpar speed make them virtually unusable in standard. Probably quite fun to use though with that trait lol

 

[Pokeguymon]

I came in, thinking that I was definitely in favour of Honchkrow, but after looking at their Serebii entries, Absol kind of won over me. :-(

Some of Honchkrow's Promising Moves
Physical:
- Night Slash
- Drill Peck
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Steel Wing

Special:
- Dark Pulse
- Shadow Ball

Other:
- Nasty Plot
- Thunder Wave
- Whirlwind
- Mean Look
- Perish Song
- Screech
- Taunt
- Psycho Shift
- Confuse Ray
- Feather Dance
- Haze
- Torment

A filtered list; I did not include attacks such as Astonish or Wing Attack because Night Slash and Drill Peck are superior. The "Others" section is more difficult to filter. Only Night Slash is abused by Super Luck, and Honchkrow doesn't have enough options to use a CB set, which was what I thought would have been a good option. Speed is also a minor problem; Honchkrow is one of those Pokemon who has a pre-evolution form faster than itself. Nasty Plot doesn't work so well with 71 base speed. With these restrictions, I'd probably have Thunder Wave on nearly all Honchkrow sets. Flying type is an advantage over Absol (EQ resist is never a bad thing, as you can switch into the slow EQers), but...

Some of Absol's Promising Moves
Physical:
- Night Slash
- Shadow Claw
- Psycho Cut
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Quick Attack
- Sucker Punch
- X-scissor

Other:
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Taunt
- Mean Look
- Perish Song
- Thunder Wave
- Will-o-wisp

Critical Hit monster. Less options, but more straight forwards. I'd go with CB, BP is a little risky for Absol. Awesome if you can pull it off.

Neither will be a staple in standard play, but I think Absol has a little more potential.

 

[Jibaku]

Absol's cooler. It's got a scythe.

Absol's movepool is also much more insane than stupid Crow. So it's better. Baton Pass separates them.

Also, it isn't fully stopped by Skarmory. SDanced Stone Edge hurts it hard, especially with a CH. It can Taunt Skarm and BP. It can also launch Calm Minded attacks at it

 

[Micky Onimusha]

In complete agreement with Jibaku, both on Absol's coolness and that Baton Pass separates them. With Baton Pass it means Absol can viably use Swords Dance. If it can take out whats been sent against it then KO it, if not BP the hell out of there. Shame that it only has 273 Speed but both look like UU/BL material so at least its Speed isn't that bad by comparison to other UU/BL Pokemon.

 

[GiroG]

Absol this generation is helpful with and against BP based.

They both get Perish Song and their Dark typing can affect Mr. Mime in BP chains (Mr. Mime could use T-Bolt or something against their poor defenses though). Too bad neither learns any multihit moves to abuse their trait and hit through subs.

 

[chewy]

How much does Scope Lens increase Night Slash CH%? Absol passed some speed would be insane with SD and Night Slash CHing left and right. Wish it learned Focus Energy as well. =\

 

[Rorus Raz]

I think that this says it all; the only reason people are even considering using Honchkrow is because they think he's "cool". It really isn't all that great of a pokemon and will be lucky if it makes it out of UU.

I was ready to forget about Honchkrow until I saw that the Pokedex listed him as a "Big Boss Pokemon". Is Absol a made Pokemon? I think not.