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Announcement NP: The Edge of Glory - Champions OU Suspect Test

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:SV/Samurott-Hisui:​


Following Sneasler’s quickban, the Champions OU council voted to suspect test Hisuian Samurott!

Hisuian Samurott has become the face of Champions OU, being one of the most defining Pokemon in the tier for quite some time, largely because of how consistently it can make progress with Ceaseless Edge. Setting Spikes while still dealing meaningful damage is especially potent in a metagame without Heavy-Duty Boots, where even a single layer can quickly add up over the course of a game. Hisuian Samurott is also far from limited to simply setting hazards, as its strong Water / Dark STAB combination, Sharpness-boosted attacks, and access to options such as Encore, Taunt, Sucker Punch, Sacred Sword, and Flip Turn make it difficult to comfortably respond to. This is further complicated by the variety of sets it can run, with Black Glasses, Choice Scarf, Focus Sash, and Swords Dance variants all performing noticeably different roles.

Black Glasses sets are particularly effective at forcing progress while maintaining the threat of Sucker Punch, and Swords Dance can punish passive attempts to remove its Spikes or recover. Encore and Taunt make this even more difficult, as Pokemon such as Corviknight can be punished for attempting to Defog, while defensive Pokemon like Clefable and Galarian Slowking risk giving Hisuian Samurott opportunities to take advantage of them. Choice Scarf sets trade immediate breaking power for the ability to revenge kill faster threats like Dragapult and Cinderace while generating momentum with Flip Turn. This versatility means that preparing for one variant does not necessarily leave a team comfortable against another. Beyond its individual strength, the Spikes it creates also place considerable pressure on defensive cores and make offensive threats like Blaziken and Mega Charizard X considerably harder to handle.

On the other hand, Hisuian Samurott is not without reliable counterplay. Pokemon such as Primarina, Mega Meganium, and Hydreigon can check many of its sets, while Rillaboom threatens it offensively and Grassy Terrain can help mitigate the chip damage caused by Spikes. Cinderace can also use Court Change to turn Hisuian Samurott's own hazards against its team. Rocky Helmet users such as defensive Garchomp and Corviknight can punish its contact moves, and Hisuian Samurott's middling Speed leaves non-Choice Scarf variants vulnerable to faster offensive threats such as Meowscarada and Mega Floette. Its high usage can also be attributed to how much role compression it provides, since it can set Spikes, make progress, revenge kill, and generate momentum depending on the set. This is also where much of the concern around Hisuian Samurott comes from, as rather than being overwhelmingly strong on its own, Ceaseless Edge makes it incredibly easy for it to create progress and has made accounting for Spikes a constant part of building and playing in the tier.

The main question of this suspect is whether that level of influence is too much for the tier, or if Hisuian Samurott's existing counterplay is enough to keep it around.

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The instructions to participate in this test are as follows:
  • Create a new account on PS. You do not have to follow any specific naming convention, but your suspect account must have never played a game in Champions OU before this suspect test went up or you will not receive valid requirements (resetting W/L does not count for this - the account you use must never have played Champions OU before the test, full stop).
  • At any point on your new account, use the command /linksmogon on Pokemon Showdown! You will receive instructions on what to do once you run this command.
  • Double check that you're listed as a voter here! If you aren't listed as a voter despite having valid reqs, please contact dhelmise or lax.
  • If you have any questions about this new process, feel free to PM me.
The requirement to vote in this suspect test is a COIL value of 2800. The deadline for getting requirements will be<t:1794286740:F>
 
Not a voter (I'm not good at this game) but I felt like sharing a matchup chart to help others vote.

Assuming this set:
Samurott-Hisui @ Black Glasses
Ability: Sharpness
EVs: 2 HP / 32 Atk / 32 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Razor Shell
- Sacred Sword


:Samurott-Hisui: has the following matchup chart:

Winning


:Slowking-Galar: without :Colbur Berry:, :Aegislash:, :Ceruledge:, :Glimmora:, :Charizard-Mega-X:, :Hippowdon:, :Kingambit:, :Excadrill:, bulky/standard :Annihilape:, :Araquanid: (technically), :Skeledirge:, :Indeedee:, :Swampert-Mega:, :Basculegion:, :Greninja:, :Greninja-Mega:, :Gliscor:, :Spell Tag: :Dragapult:

Even / Soft Winning / Winning but can't switch in / Too long to play out (just a messy category)

:Kingambit: (Brick Break / Low Kick sets only), :Blaziken:, :Dragonite:, :Colbur Berry: :Slowking-Galar:, :Arcanine-Hisui:

Roll-Dependent (The second messy category)

:Delphox-Mega:, :Metagross-Mega:, :Hydreigon:, :Dragalge-Mega:, :Pelipper:, :Garchomp-Mega: (no set data but I guess Earthquake 2HKOs? It goes here until we get an update.), :Gyarados-Mega: (assuming BSS set, I can't find its COU set), :Choice Scarf: :Dragapult:

Losing / Gets Walled

:Cinderace:, :Garchomp:, :Hatterene:, :Charizard-Mega-Y: (assuming Ability), :Dragonite-Mega:, :Garchomp-Mega-Z:, :Primarina:, defensive :Rotom-Wash: (technically), :Choice Scarf: :Rotom-Wash:, :Quaquaval:, :Scizor-Mega:, :Toxapex:, :Hawlucha:, :Ditto: (if Transformed into this Samurott), :Salamence: (assuming Intimidate is active), :Scizor:, :Skarmory:, :Tauros-Paldea-Aqua:, :Venusaur:, :Conkeldurr: (again, no set data lol), :Hydrapple:

Softer Losing (Neither side can switch in, but Samurott is slower and gets OHKOd first)

:Lopunny-Mega:, :Meowscarada:, :Pawmot:, :Froslass-Mega:, :Glimmora-Mega:, :Barbaracle-Mega:, :Life Orb: :Dragapult:

VERY Losing

:Floette-Mega:, :Meganium-Mega:, :Clefable:, :Clefable-Mega:, :Mawile-Mega:, :Staraptor-Mega:, :Archaludon:


(sorry I couldn't attach the calcs, I'm exhausted rn T_T)
(Note "Winning" means Samurott is winning, not the other Pokémon listed. Same with the other categories.)


EDIT: Added a few more mons yay! Also fixed some BBCodes, I have no idea why I didn't spot the bugged out Salamence one. And finally that Pult matchup ain't winning, no idea why I put it there.

yes I know it's not all of them, but almost everything I didn't list is either bad in COU, has no sets I can find, or both!
 
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First to get reqs, I am EASILY VOTING DO NOT BAN and banning hisuian samurott is a very big mistake

Teams Used:
:samurott-hisui: :metagross-mega: :dragapult: :kingambit: :garchomp: :blaziken: - shout out wallchompftw for this great team that still is good to this day
:hawlucha: :rillaboom: :glimmora: :golisopod-mega: :primarina: :dragapult: - shout out Ultraman1 for this squad
:meganium-mega: :weavile: :corviknight: :garchomp: :hydreigon: :slowking-galar: - Balance i made to truly see if hrott was cancerous for balance (ALSO HAS WEAVILE YAY)

Before saying how hrott isnt broken I will explain the reasoning for why I was a part of the ban side during M-B and why people right now are wanning to BAN hisuian samurott.

- A lot of the reasoning came down to hazard options being extremely limited. It was just Defog Corviknight and Rapid Spin Excadrill, the latter having very fringe usage and only on offensive teams which didn't particularly mind Spikes.
Hisuian Samurott could run sets such as SD Black Glasses and Encore/Taunt to severely cripple are beat Corviknight. If Corviknight decided to switch in and try and Defog/Roost then too bad you got Encore'd and are in a pickle.
I was skeptical that this would actually be true until I ended up building for CHAMPL when I decided to hand my teammate a Big 4+Mega Floette & Ceruledge team. The opponent had a SD+Encore Hisuian Samurott and my teammate lost (ignore how the Corviknight got crit & thats how they lost for this use case) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9championsou-966654

However with the addition of M-C there are load of new additions that made Hisuian Samurott a lot more managable. :rocky-helmet: is a huge blow for hrott, taking 18% per hit is loads and can severely cripple hisuian samurotts longevity, for example corviknight wins the 1v1 against hrott now. Moreover, the addition of monsters like (washed) rillaboom, mega golisopod, the rebirth of mega charizard-y, mega garchomp Z even is a solid answer as it can OHKO with Draco Meteor. The list of offensive answers goes on and on and frankly offensively pressuring hisuian samurott is a very easy task.

Then there is the BAN arguement of M-C, there are two points that these people have
- Hisuian Samurott offense is brainless+no skill+ceaseless & win
- Hisuian Samurott makes Balance extinct

To find out if this was actually true I climbed with an hrott offense team, a standard offense team & a balance team. While hisuian samurott offense is very strong there are no questions about it, it definitely is not oppressing at all. In fact some games I was wishing that I had a different setter such as Glimmora or Archaludon etc. Hisuian Samurott setting up that 1 or 2 Spike layer really is not the end of the world and most teams can often just accept that Spikes are set, even if you set up that Spike uncontested, the fact of the matter is that there is no difference between hrott and something like Glimmora or Garchomp.

Then the second claim is that yeah obviously a spike attacking move user that can set spikes with an attack and has good wallbreaking utility is going to be difficult for balance. However there are plenty of defensive counter measures for hisuian samurott, for instance, the most used balance Pokemon :clefable: :corviknight: :garchomp: are not only easily all super splashable on balance but also are solid answers to hisuian samurott. Moreover, once you actually look at the tier, the amount of Pokemon that cannot threaten hisuian samurott is a good total of: 0

:absol-mega-z: Close Combat
:aegislash: Lives Ceaseless and OHKO's with Close Combat
:annihilape: Drain Punch
:araquanid: Lunge
:archaludon: Electro Shot
:blaziken: Click Close Combat
:ceruledge: Ok this is something that Hrott can switch into non-CC varients but this is an offense mon that can do 70% with 2 Poltergeists
:cinderace: U-turn & needs to be scarf razor shell to threaten which is walled by most walls & ace can court change spikes :/
:clefable: :/
:corviknight: Wins trade with Brave Bird
:dragapult: OHKO's with Draco
:dragonite: Uses hrott as set up
:excadrill: Earthquake
:garchomp: Earthquake
:garchomp-mega-z: Draco
:glimmora: Offense mon that can put hrott on a timer with poison
:golisopod-mega: Leech Life
:hatterene: Draining Kiss
:hydreigon: Draco Meteor
:kingambit: Ok sure but who is using gambit early game
:meowscarada: :p
:pawmot: CC+Double Shock+Mach Punch = destruction
:pelipper: lowkey owns hrott with hurricane :sob: + u turns into arch & scawy
:primarina: Moonblast
:quaquaval: Aura Farm
:rillaboom: monke
:rotom-wash: Thunderbolt
:samurott-hisui: Sacred Sword
:slowking-galar: Colbur+Toxic
:toxapex: Toxic
:volcarona: Bug Buzz

Hisuian Samurott most likely will have very few opportunities to actually use Ceaseless Edge and stack 3 Spikes due to the offensive pressure that the tier has. Moreover, even if Hisui Samurott somehow gets those spikes, there are plenty of good removal options (Defog Corv, Rapid Spin Excadrill etc.). On the balance team I used, the most you realistically need to handle hrott is just a soft check ( had meganium which is kinda a counter but something like clefable works fine as well) and a way to remove hazards once I had the opportunity to (corviknight). Please also do not just instincatively switch in your Corviknight in on the hisuian samurotts thinking its all safe, please play proactively and figure out a more logical time to click Defog :), not everything has to be a black & white answer.

Hisuian Samurott is also very valuable in this meta game, first it can make progress that no other Dark Type can do as easily, Meowscarada is trouble with Corv, Hydreigon can struggle with Fairies & spdef walls, Kingambit can have trouble with Garchomp status. Moreover, Hisuian Samurott is responsible to being able to take on so many offensive threats in the tier such as Ceruledge and Dragapult that these Pokemon cannot do & it has great utility to stop offensive threats such as Mega Golisopod with Encore.

The fact of the matter is that there are so many offensive answers and there is a servicable amount of defensive counterplay that is very common and splashable. I haven't even talked about the decreased win rate that hisuian samurott is having. Also please do not vote ban because you want balance to prosper, not only is this not true but banning hrott will do nothing to change people from using corv+glowking.
So uh any ban voters want to argue with me then uh feel free to
 
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Got reqs. Voting Ban. This has felt obvious since the tier’s inception.
I think this is less cut-and-dry than Raichu, but Samurott gets too much value out of ceaseless edge, and it’s not even forced to run knock off like it is in OU.
It feels hilarious to say something like “Kingambit is more honest than Samurott” but it’s not even a question that it’s true.

No boots No Tusk No Zama No Tera
Make Hisuian-Samurott Just Not Fair-a

https://pokepast.es/8249e1fad9931445
https://pokepast.es/285372e90ebc2408


IMG_4767.jpeg
 
This test has been teased since early September, surely this is not a surprise right?
Even then, you'd expect it in a meta with no Boots, 1 good spinner, multiple good Ghosts and Contrary Mega Staraptor to punish Defog.

Game Freak was not thinking of competitive 6v6 Singles with this game, let's admit it
 
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Even then, you'd expect it in a meta with no Boots, 1 good spinner, multiple good Ghosts and Contrary Mega Staraptor to punish Defog.

Game Freak was not thinking of competitive Singles with this game, let's admit it

i mean battle stadium singles is an official competitive singles format, so i wouldn’t say game freak wasn’t thinking about singles at all. it’s more that the game clearly isn’t designed around 6v6 singles since BSS is 3v3, which is why stuff like no boots, limited removal, and really strong hazard setters can get so much more oppressive here (off topic but do check it out though, very fun format)
 
Got reqs earlier today, personally leaning towards ban. I can’t see Hisuian Samurott in a healthy, balanced Champions OU this regulation based on its over centralization alone. Too much of the meta revolves around it and ways to cope for Ceaseless Edge, which is just silly.

I would say that in a future regulation where Heavy-Duty Boots is legal and / or we remove Item Clause then I would like to see Hisuian Samurott return (given it gets banned). If it was forced to start running Knock Off instead of the incredibly greedy yet worthwhile Swords Dance + Encore, then I could see it being balanced enough. There are obviously a lot of healthy aspects about Hisiuan Samurott like its Choice Scarf set that I wish could remain if we simply had better checks to Spikes and hazard offenses.
 
I would say that in a future regulation where Heavy-Duty Boots is legal and / or we remove Item Clause then I would like to see Hisuian Samurott return (given it gets banned).
Item Clause is likely to never be removed, as in game it’s impossible to get more than one of each item. And even when (or if) boots get added only one Pokemon can run them, so while they might prove incredibly beneficial for certain Pokemon, their impact might be not as overwhelming as one might think. Meta is just in need of more removal options if anything but I sincerely doubt we’ll get anything major soon.

Anyway I’m probably not going to be able to get recs but I am leaning towards ban. Ceaseless is a stupid move and it’s still a strong progress maker with it. I agree that Rocky Helmet does help deal with it but I’m not fully sure if that’s enough to make it balanced.
 
They want to ban my boy Hamurott in a world where we have only 12pp and everyone is running some fat shit with some horrible combination of Corv + Glowking + some other dude with recovery. Keeping Hazards up are more than necessary to break through (Psy Noise seriously should work on Regenerator)

Worst case just complex ban Ceaseless Edge instead of nuking this guy to orbit, its typing and movepool still warrant usage even when lacking that busted ass move.

I'm voting DNB because I like hamu

I'm shit now so I struggled a bit with getting reqs but I'll do anything for hamu
image_2026-10-28_233317911.png


Here is the team mainly used (matchup fish warlord)

image_2026-10-28_233438842.png
 
They want to ban my boy Hamurott in a world where we have only 12pp and everyone is running some fat shit with some horrible combination of Corv + Glowking + some other dude with recovery. Keeping Hazards up are more than necessary to break through (Psy Noise seriously should work on Regenerator)

Worst case just complex ban Ceaseless Edge instead of nuking this guy to orbit, its typing and movepool still warrant usage even when lacking that busted ass move.

I'm voting DNB because I like hamu

I'm shit now so I struggled a bit with getting reqs but I'll do anything for hamu
View attachment 873212

Here is the team mainly used (matchup fish warlord)

View attachment 873213
I don't think complex banning a signature move would make much sense? Like has this ever happened before? Besides Dark Void, a sleep move, and Last Respects which eventually stopped being a signature move, both in SV.


We should just ban the Pokémon if Ceaseless Edge is broken.

Would this complex ban even be good for Samurott? Wouldn't it just end up as a slightly worse Kingambit with less resistances?
 
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I don't think complex banning a signature move would make much sense? Like has this ever happened before? Besides Dark Void, a sleep move, and Last Respects which eventually stopped being a signature move, both in SV.


We should just ban the Pokémon if Ceaseless Edge is broken.

Would this complex ban even be good for Samurott? Wouldn't it just end up as a slightly worse Kingambit with less resistances?
Ceaseless Edge is the only problematic part of the Pokemon

And no it wouldn't end up as just a "worse Gambit", its speed tier and access to utility moves like Encore and Taunt would still allow it to punish or stop hazard clear.

Like it would certainly be worse but would still get plenty of use with how empty this tier is
 
Ceaseless Edge is the only problematic part of the Pokemon

And no it wouldn't end up as just a "worse Gambit", its speed tier and access to utility moves like Encore and Taunt would still allow it to punish or stop hazard clear.

Like it would certainly be worse but would still get plenty of use with how empty this tier is
Maybe so, but why the complex ban itself? We banned Dracovish because of Fishious Rend, even though Vish wouldn't be broken without it. We can ban Samurott because of Ceaseless Edge.
 
still no reqs, but I'm leaning ban. Ceaseless Edge is a ridiculous move in COU. Yes we have Rocky Helmet. Yes we have a lot of offensive things that deal with Samurott. But this move is just that strong, that it hardly matters if Samurott has a lot of answers.

Samurott isn't Ogerpon-Hearthflame. We aren't suspecting it for breaking balance, it's for Ceaseless Edge.


If we get Boots or better hazard removal, we can retest Samurott. For now, it's probably unhealthy.
 
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