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Copyediting Utility SD Primal Groudon [QC 2/2] [GP 0/1]

Sami

formerly S0A0M0I0
is a Community Contributoris a Top Metagame Resource Contributoris a Top Contributor
[SET]
name: Utility Swords Dance
move 1: Stealth Rock / Spikes
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Rock Tomb / Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Desolate Land
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 SpD or 248 HP / 112 Atk / 140 Def / 8 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

* Primal Groudon makes for one of the tier's best hazard setters due to its superb bulk, typing, and offensive prowess when combined with Swords Dance. It retains its ability to check powerful threats such as Zacian-C and Primal Kyogre, but can additionally maintain hazards against Ho-Oh, thus making it a staple for balance and bulky offense teams. These teams appreciate this variants's wallbreaking capabilites, forming strong offensive synergies with teammates such as Eternatus and Zacian-C, which the defensive variant lacks.

* Stealth Rock is typically preferred to threaten Flying- and Ice-types more, such as against Yveltal, Mega Salamence, and Chien Pao. However, Spikes can be used instead to break through defensive walls quicker, such as against Zygarde and Ferrothorn, especially if an alternative Stealth Rock user is present, which may be more ideal on fatter team structures that focus on hazard stacking.

* Rock Tomb serves as a reliable way of punishing Flying-types such as Yveltal and Mega Salamence on the switch, notably preventing the latter from safely setting up. The Speed drop can be combined with Precipice Blades to maintain offensive pressure, especially against predicted switch-ins such as defensive Arceus-Dark. Alternatively, Stone Edge matches up better against Giratina-O, defensive Ho-Oh, and the more niche Landorus-T, due to its immediate power, while still denying Mega Salamence safe setup if boosted. However, it loses out on slowing down other Pokemon for offensive pressure.

* The first EV spread allows Primal Groudon to avoid the OHKO from +3 Tera Fighting Zacian-C's Close Combat after Stealth Rock as base Groudon, with the rest being dumped into Special Defense to survive Life Orb Deoxys-A's Psycho Boost. The second EV spread is ideal for Stone Edge variants, being able to OHKO defensive Ho-Oh without any boosts, as well as 2HKOing Giratina-O at +2 after Stealth Rock. The rest of the EVs are used defensively, allowing Primal Groudon to survive +3 Tera Fighting Zacian-C's Close Combat, and avoid the 2HKO from offensive Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam, both after a layer of Spikes.

* Due to the popularity of defensive Overheat variants, Primal Groudon is able to punish reckless Defog attempts from Ho-Oh with ease, making this set especially powerful in the early-to-mid game. Swords Dance should be used on forced switches against Pokemon such as defensive Primal Kyogre or Necrozma-DM, allowing Primal Groudon to apply sudden offensive pressure while maintaining hazards for its team. However, if using Rock Tomb against Giratina-O, it is advised not to try and duel it due to Giratina-O's superior bulk and damage against Primal Groudon; it is best to switch out to preserve health, especially if a threat such as Zacian-C is present on the opposing team.

* Primal Groudon's efficacy as a wallbreaker and hazard setter, as well as its ability to remove Ho-Oh easily, is appreciated heavily by other offensive threats, such as Marshadow, Play Rough Zacian-C, and Eternatus, all three of which are able to threaten Giratina-O for Primal Groudon in return, as well as handling threats faster than Primal Groudon, such as Calm Mind Arceus formes. Dragon Dance Arceus-Ground alongside Primal Groudon can overwhelm their checks, such as Zygarde and the aforementioned Giratina-O, especially if Primal Groudon is using Stone Edge for the latter. Arceus-Ground can additionally maintain hazards set by Primal Groudon via Taunt, or serve as a check to opposing Primal Groudon with Recover, making it a strong option against opposing offense teams that Primal Groudon may not like due to its poor longevity.

* However, Primal Groudon is still weak to Ground-types such as Zygarde, Arceus-Ground, and opposing Primal Groudon, meaning sufficient checks to all of them such as defensive Primal Kyogre, Ho-Oh, and Tera Fairy Zygarde are all great teammates, with them all appreciating Primal Groudon handling opposing Primal Kyogre in return. Ferrothorn can ease the pressure of off Primal Groudon in checking Primal Kyogre and Arceus-Water, supporting Primal Groudon via Knock Off and Spikes, and being a solid answer to special utility Giratina-O. In return, Primal Groudon beats opposing Steel-types such as Necrozma-DM and Zacian-C that may try to use Ferrothorn as setup fodder.

[SET CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/sami.604820/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/unfuuny.538620/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/bumboclaat.523420/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/user4.104/
 
Last edited:
[SET]
name: Utility Swords Dance
move 1: Stealth Rock / Spikes
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Rock Tomb / Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Desolate Land
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 148 SpD / 44 Spe or 248 HP / 112 Atk / 140 Def / 8 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

* Primal Groudon makes for one of the tier's best hazard setters due to its superb bulk, typing, and offensive prowess when combined with Swords Dance. It retains its ability to check powerful threats such as Zacian-C and Primal Kyogre, but can additionally maintain hazards against Ho-Oh, thus making it a staple for balance and bulky offense teams that appreciate Primal Groudon's wallbreaking and defensive capabilities.

* Stealth Rock is typically preferred to threaten Flying- and Ice-types more, such as against Mega Salamence, Rayquaza, and Chien Pao. However, Spikes can be used instead to break through defensive walls quicker, such as against Zygarde and Ferrothorn, especially if an alternative Stealth Rock user is present.

* Rock Tomb is typically preferred, since it notably punishes switch-ins such as Arceus-Ground and defensive Primal Kyogre, allowing Primal Groudon to apply constant offensive pressure when combined with Swords Dance. Additionally, Rock Tomb allows Primal Groudon to trade damage against threats it otherwise wouldn't be able to, such as against Lunala or Calm Mind Arceus formes, as well as deny setup from Mega Salamence and Dragon Dance Arceus-Ground, improving its defensive capabilities overall. Alternatively, Stone Edge matches up better against Giratina-O, defensive Ho-Oh, and the more niche Landorus-T, due to its immediate power, while still denying Mega Salamence safe setup if boosted. However, it loses out on slowing down other Pokemon for offensive pressure.

* The first EV spread allows Primal Groudon to avoid the OHKO from +3 Tera Fighting Zacian-C's Close Combat after Stealth Rock as base Groudon. The Speed EVs let Primal Groudon outspeed uninvested Zygarde, alongside Adamant Mega Salamence and Arceus after Rock Tomb. The rest is dumped into Special Defense, preventing +1 Tera Dragon Eternatus's Dynamax Cannon from OHKOing Primal Groudon. Alternatively, the Speed investment can be dumped into Special Defense to survive Life Orb Deoxys-A's Psycho Boost from full.

* The second EV spread is ideal for Stone Edge variants, being able to OHKO defensive Ho-Oh without any boosts, as well as 2HKOing Giratina-O at +2 after Stealth Rock. The rest of the EVs are used defensively, allowing Primal Groudon to survive +3 Tera Fighting Zacian-C's Close Combat, and avoid the 2HKO from offensive Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam, both after a layer of Spikes.

* Due to the popularity of defensive variants, Primal Groudon is able to punish reckless Defog attempts from Ho-Oh with ease, making this set especially powerful in the early-to-mid game. Swords Dance should be used on forced switches against Pokemon such as defensive Primal Kyogre or Necrozma-DM, allowing Primal Groudon to apply sudden offensive pressure while maintaining hazards for its team. However, if using Rock Tomb against Giratina-O, it is advised not to try and duel it due to Giratina-O's superior bulk and damage against Primal Groudon; it is best to switch out to preserve health, especially if a threat such as Zacian-C is present on the opposing team.

* Primal Groudon's efficacy as a wallbreaker and hazard setter, as well as its ability to remove Ho-Oh easily, is appreciated heavily by other offensive threats, such as Marshadow, Play Rough Zacian-C, and Eternatus, all three of which are able to threaten Giratina-O for Rock Tomb variants of Primal Groudon in return. Dragon Dance Arceus-Ground alongside Primal Groudon can overwhelm their checks, such as Zygarde and the aforementioned Giratina-O, especially if Primal Groudon is using Stone Edge for the latter. Arceus-Ground can additionally maintain hazards set by Primal Groudon via Taunt, or serve as a check to opposing Primal Groudon with Recover.

* However, Primal Groudon is still weak to Ground-types such as Zygarde, Arceus-Ground, and opposing Primal Groudon, meaning sufficient checks to all of them such as defensive Primal Kyogre, Ho-Oh, and Tera Fairy Zygarde are all great teammates, the latter two appreciating Primal Groudon handling opposing Primal Kyogre in return. Ferrothorn can ease the pressure of off Primal Groudon in checking Primal Kyogre and Arceus-Water, supporting Primal Groudon via Knock Off and Spikes, and being a solid answer to Giratina-O. In return, Primal Groudon beats opposing Steel-types such as Necrozma-DM and Zacian-C that may try to use Ferrothorn as setup fodder.

[SET CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/sami.604820/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/user2.102/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/user3.103/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/user4.104/
add remove comment
[SET]
name: Utility Swords Dance
move 1: Stealth Rock / Spikes
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Rock Tomb / Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Desolate Land
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 148 SpD / 44 Spe or 248 HP / 112 Atk / 140 Def / 8 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

* Primal Groudon makes for one of the tier's best hazard setters due to its superb bulk, typing, and offensive prowess when combined with Swords Dance. It retains its ability to check powerful threats such as Zacian-C and Primal Kyogre, but can additionally maintain hazards against Ho-Oh, thus making it a staple for balance and bulky offense teams that appreciate Primal Groudon's wallbreaking and defensive capabilities. Do you mean that it is a staple on balance and BO? or that it is a staple on balance and bo that need those 2 pdon qualities simultaneously? clarify

* Stealth Rock is typically preferred to threaten Flying- and Ice-types more, such as against Yveltal, Mega Salamence, Rayquaza, and Chien Pao. I'd mention yveltal here too as it is a really common flyer that doesnt run boots often and only needs a little chip to insta die to fairyceus judmgnet However, Spikes can be used instead to break through defensive walls quicker, such as against Zygarde and Ferrothorn, especially if an alternative Stealth Rock user is present.

* Rock Tomb is typically preferred, since it notably punishes switch-ins such as Arceus-Ground and defensive Primal Kyogre, allowing Primal Groudon to apply constant offensive pressure when combined with Swords Dance. Additionally, Rock Tomb allows Primal Groudon to trade damage against threats it otherwise wouldn't be able to, such as against Lunala or Calm Mind Arceus formes, as well as deny setup from Mega Salamence and Dragon Dance Arceus-Ground, improving its defensive capabilities overall. Alternatively, Stone Edge matches up better against Giratina-O, defensive Ho-Oh, and the more niche Landorus-T, due to its immediate power, while still denying Mega Salamence safe setup if boosted. However, it loses out on slowing down other Pokemon for offensive pressure.

* The first EV spread allows Primal Groudon to avoid the OHKO from +3 Tera Fighting Zacian-C's Close Combat after Stealth Rock as base Groudon. The Speed EVs let Primal Groudon outspeed uninvested Zygarde, alongside Adamant Mega Salamence and Arceus after Rock Tomb. The rest is dumped into Special Defense, preventing +1 Tera Dragon Eternatus's Dynamax Cannon from OHKOing Primal Groudon. Alternatively, the Speed investment can be dumped into Special Defense to survive Life Orb Deoxys-A's Psycho Boost from full.

* The second EV spread is ideal for Stone Edge variants, being able to OHKO defensive Ho-Oh without any boosts, as well as 2HKOing Giratina-O at +2 after Stealth Rock. The rest of the EVs are used defensively, allowing Primal Groudon to survive +3 Tera Fighting Zacian-C's Close Combat, and avoid the 2HKO from offensive Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam, both after a layer of Spikes.

* Due to the popularity of defensive Overheat variants, Primal Groudon is able to punish reckless Defog attempts from Ho-Oh with ease, making this set especially powerful in the early-to-mid game. Swords Dance should be used on forced switches against Pokemon such as defensive Primal Kyogre or Necrozma-DM, allowing Primal Groudon to apply sudden offensive pressure while maintaining hazards for its team. However, if using Rock Tomb against Giratina-O, it is advised not to try and duel it due to Giratina-O's superior bulk and damage against Primal Groudon; it is best to switch out to preserve health, especially if a threat such as Zacian-C is present on the opposing team.

* Primal Groudon's efficacy as a wallbreaker and hazard setter, as well as its ability to remove Ho-Oh easily, is appreciated heavily by other offensive threats, such as Marshadow, Play Rough Zacian-C, and Eternatus, all three of which are able to threaten Giratina-O for Rock Tomb variants of Primal Groudon in return. Pdon only does relevant damage after sd to gira and doesnt like taking tox so id say just remove the specification Dragon Dance Arceus-Ground alongside Primal Groudon can overwhelm their checks, such as Zygarde and the aforementioned Giratina-O, especially if Primal Groudon is using Stone Edge for the latter. Arceus-Ground can additionally maintain hazards set by Primal Groudon via Taunt, or serve as a check to opposing Primal Groudon with Recover.

* However, Primal Groudon is still weak to Ground-types such as Zygarde, Arceus-Ground, and opposing Primal Groudon, meaning sufficient checks to all of them such as defensive Primal Kyogre, Ho-Oh, and Tera Fairy Zygarde are all great teammates, the latter two appreciating Primal Groudon handling opposing Primal Kyogre in return. Dont all of them enjoy pdon dealing with pogre? cuz san antonio women doesnt like taking a thunder either Ferrothorn can ease the pressure of off Primal Groudon in checking Primal Kyogre and Arceus-Water, supporting Primal Groudon via Knock Off and Spikes, and being a solid answer to Giratina-O. In return, Primal Groudon beats opposing Steel-types such as Necrozma-DM and Zacian-C that may try to use Ferrothorn as setup fodder.

[SET CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/sami.604820/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/unfuuny.538620/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/user3.103/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/user4.104/
 
Last edited:
[SET]
name: Utility Swords Dance
move 1: Stealth Rock / Spikes
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Rock Tomb / Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Desolate Land
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 148 SpD / 44 Spe or 248 HP / 112 Atk / 140 Def / 8 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

* Primal Groudon makes for one of the tier's best hazard setters due to its superb bulk, typing, and offensive prowess when combined with Swords Dance. It retains its ability to check powerful threats such as Zacian-C and Primal Kyogre, but can additionally maintain hazards against Ho-Oh, thus making it a staple for balance and bulky offense teams, since these teams need Primal Groudon's wallbreaking and defensive capabilities. Can you touch on why teams would opt for this set over the defensive one?

* Stealth Rock is typically preferred to threaten Flying- and Ice-types more, such as against Yveltal, Mega Salamence, and Chien Pao. However, Spikes can be used instead to break through defensive walls quicker, such as against Zygarde and Ferrothorn, especially if an alternative Stealth Rock user is present. What sort of compositions would Spikes be preferred or is it dealers choice?

* Rock Tomb is typically preferred, since it notably punishes switch-ins such as Arceus-Ground and defensive Primal Kyogre, allowing Primal Groudon to apply constant offensive pressure when combined with Swords Dance. Additionally, Rock Tomb allows Primal Groudon to trade damage against threats it otherwise wouldn't be able to, such as against Lunala or Calm Mind Arceus formes, as well as deny setup from Mega Salamence and Dragon Dance Arceus-Ground, improving its defensive capabilities overall. Alternatively, Stone Edge matches up better against Giratina-O, defensive Ho-Oh, and the more niche Landorus-T, due to its immediate power, while still denying Mega Salamence safe setup if boosted. However, it loses out on slowing down other Pokemon for offensive pressure. Dragon Dance Arceus-Ground should probably be reworded or removed since this reads as just keep Rock Tombing it. Won't it just continue to DD until Primal Groudon is in KO range while taking negligible damage? Would add something about Rock Tomb punishing some mons that attempt to use an assumed switch as a setup opportunity.

* The first EV spread allows Primal Groudon to avoid the OHKO from +3 Tera Fighting Zacian-C's Close Combat after Stealth Rock as base Groudon. The Speed EVs let Primal Groudon outspeed uninvested Zygarde, alongside Adamant Mega Salamence and Arceus after Rock Tomb. The rest is dumped into Special Defense, preventing +1 Tera Dragon Eternatus's Dynamax Cannon from OHKOing Primal Groudon. Alternatively, the Speed investment can be dumped into Special Defense to survive Life Orb Deoxys-A's Psycho Boost from full.

* The second EV spread is ideal for Stone Edge variants, being able to OHKO defensive Ho-Oh without any boosts, as well as 2HKOing Giratina-O at +2 after Stealth Rock. The rest of the EVs are used defensively, allowing Primal Groudon to survive +3 Tera Fighting Zacian-C's Close Combat, and avoid the 2HKO from offensive Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam, both after a layer of Spikes.

* Due to the popularity of defensive Overheat variants, Primal Groudon is able to punish reckless Defog attempts from Ho-Oh with ease, making this set especially powerful in the early-to-mid game. Swords Dance should be used on forced switches against Pokemon such as defensive Primal Kyogre or Necrozma-DM, allowing Primal Groudon to apply sudden offensive pressure while maintaining hazards for its team. However, if using Rock Tomb against Giratina-O, it is advised not to try and duel it due to Giratina-O's superior bulk and damage against Primal Groudon; it is best to switch out to preserve health, especially if a threat such as Zacian-C is present on the opposing team.

* Primal Groudon's efficacy as a wallbreaker and hazard setter, as well as its ability to remove Ho-Oh easily, is appreciated heavily by other offensive threats, such as Marshadow, Play Rough Zacian-Cis this assumed to be TB Ground? Probably best to specify, and Eternatus, all three of which are able to threaten Giratina-O for Primal Groudon in return. Dragon Dance Arceus-Ground alongside Primal Groudon can overwhelm their checks, such as Zygarde and the aforementioned Giratina-O, especially if Primal Groudon is using Stone Edge for the latter. Arceus-Ground can additionally maintain hazards set by Primal Groudon via Taunt, or serve as a check to opposing Primal Groudon with Recover.It is worth while mentioning DD Ground's matchup against offense. I'd also mention how Marshadow / Zacian-C can help to check the midspeed breakers / Calm Mind Arceus formes.

* However, Primal Groudon is still weak to Ground-types such as Zygarde, Arceus-Ground, and opposing Primal Groudon, meaning sufficient checks to all of them such as defensive Primal Kyogre, Ho-Oh, and Tera Fairy Zygarde are all great teammates, with them all appreciating Primal Groudon handling opposing Primal Kyogre in return. Ferrothorn can ease the pressure of off Primal Groudon in checking Primal Kyogre and Arceus-Water, supporting Primal Groudon via Knock Off and Spikes, and being a solid answer to special utility Giratina-O. In return, Primal Groudon beats opposing Steel-types such as Necrozma-DM and Zacian-C that may try to use Ferrothorn as setup fodder. It is worth mentioning these mons have good matchups into stall which this Primal Groudon set tends to be horrible into.

[SET CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/sami.604820/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/unfuuny.538620/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/bumboclaat.523420/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/user4.104/

Good job! Not a ton of comments, but feel the order of the EV spreads should probably be swapped. 2/2 when applied, but lets finalize the EV stuff before moving this to gp
 
bumboclaat pinging just to make sure ur happy with it before going to gp
- removed speed evs from first spread since they are clunky to talk about in conjunction with rock tomb
* Primal Groudon's efficacy as a wallbreaker and hazard setter, as well as its ability to remove Ho-Oh easily, is appreciated heavily by other offensive threats, such as Marshadow, Play Rough Zacian-Cis this assumed to be TB Ground? Probably best to specify
play rough zacc without tera blast ground is still a used set, nor is it necessarily bad so idt theres a need to specify

In return, Primal Groudon beats opposing Steel-types such as Necrozma-DM and Zacian-C that may try to use Ferrothorn as setup fodder. It is worth mentioning these mons have good matchups into stall which this Primal Groudon set tends to be horrible into.
this pdon set isnt horrible into stall imo, its only issue is dondozo and defensive darkceus (cannot directly switch in anyways)
ferro is ok into stall, kinda sucks into hooh and gira and sometimes darkceus depending on the moves used (willo sucks a lot)
defensive pyogre is also fine into stall but u need something alongside it like cm arc formes or etern for it to actually make a difference otherwise its just chansey fodder
 
Not saying the Zacian-C set is bad, just that Play Rough is nearly always seen alongside TB Ground these days. Also both are walled by Tera Steel Giratina-O so suggesting this set specifically feels a bit out of place.

I do think this set is bad into stall, especially then the alternative is usually Toxic + Overheat which is decent into stall. Being walled by Dondozo tends to be a bigger issue than being walled by other stall mons. This can go to GP.
 
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