The VR council has done its first major update! But first, a few items of news.
- We added
Staxi to the Viability Ranking Council! Hi, Staxi!
- We should be
getting some super sick new art soon. No more unviable Zamazenta-C and banned Zacian-C.
- The next update will be at some point after Ubers's next suspect test, so keep an eye out for that.
Also, a PSA: it helps us a lot, the way we do things, if you clearly indicate what rank you want a Pokemon to be in your nominations itc. Otherwise we don't know where the player base actually wants a Pokemon to be.
Here are the impacts of the
council nominations:
Zacian-Hero: B- → A+
Zarude: Unranked → C+
Corviknight: Unranked → C-
Lunala: B+ → A-
Froslass: C+ → B-
Tangrowth: C → B-
Galvantula: C- → C+
Ditto: B+ → B-
Dugtrio: B- → C
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: A+ → S
Landorus-Therian: C+ → B-
Rotom-W: C- → Unranked
Clefable: C- → Unranked
Tapu Koko: C- → Unranked
Toxapex: C → C+
Tentacruel: C+ → C-
Mew: C+ → C
Tyranitar: A- → B
Urshifu-Single-Strike: B- → B
And here is how the
thread nominations shook out.
Gothitelle: A → A+
Groudon: A → Unchanged
Calyrex-Ice: B- → B
Marshadow: A- → Unchanged
Buzzwole: C → B
Lugia: A- → C+
Darmanitan-Galar: C → B
For the sake of transparency, I'm including the spreadsheet where the council voted on both sets of nominations
here. Note that we had a slightly nonstandard voting item: changing the order of S Rank after Zacian-Crowned's ban. We added Necrozma-Dusk-Mane to S as we recognize that it's mandatory on any team that hopes to be good versus Zacian-Hero, and we changed the Calyrex-Shadow>Yveltal>Eternatus order to Yveltal>Calyrex-Shadow>Necrozma-Dusk-Mane>Eternatus so as to better reflect how we've seen the metagame develop.
To go over everything that was nominated in this thread:
Nominating Gothitelle to A+. It's the most potent trapper in the game and can reliably remove either Necrozma-DM or Eternatus, two of the premier defensive checks to the best offensive core in the game (Zacian-C + Kyogre), which can then destroy the rest of the opponent mons. Eternatus must hold Shed Shell instead of Black Sludge or run Dragon Tail, and defensive NDM is completely helpless.
Goth + Zacian + Kyogre is a deadly combo in current meta.
The council really dislikes the impact Gothitelle has on the metagame and was unanimous in its desire to raise it to A+. This Pokemon pretty much doesn't have a place in a competitive tier, and the amount of Pokemon or sets it can just invalidate at team preview is staggering.
Nominating Groudon to A+. In the current meta, Groudon is one of strongest offensive/defensive Ubers and it can fit well in almost any team. Support sets (Physical defensive and even Special Defensive) offers invauble offensive pressure against common teams and synergeis with Rocks support, Toxic and powerfull ground atacks makes hard to switch in without taking huge risk on get the wrong read. In the other hand, offensive sets are extremly dangerous and you need to respect Groudon until you know wich set is carry. Offensive sets have perfect coverage in the current meta. Double dance gives a hard and short battle against unprepared teams. Precipice blades with SD boost and LO is incredible hard to switch. Zygarde variantes have risk to get 1HKO even with defensive sets. Berrys are noexistent with the introducion of the heavy dutty boots make to groudon more easy to break flying types such as Yveltal, Ho Oh and Lugia on the switch. Finnaly, rock polish sets offer the capability to outspeed common scarfs ussers like kyogre timid. The only way to deal with groudon is with early pressure with powerful special atackers like Kyogre, Calyrex Shadow and the rare lunala.
Without the offensive pressure, Groudon offers good sinergy with other top tier mons aka Eternatus and Necrozma Dusk Mane. With the extra power of sun, Eternatus becomes in a high reward, low risk mon. Flametrower in sun is spectacular, cause he can put more pressure on certain steel types like Necrozma Dusk Mane and Zacian. And he can still punish switch ins like Ho Oh or kyogre with toxic.
The only issues with groudon is the lack of Acc on the main moves (Precipice blades have 85% and Stone edge 80%) and the poor speed tie without rock polish. Also, the only real switch in is lunala and lugia both of they get punish by toxic variants and any chip damage.
Also trapers as Dugtrio and Gothietelle get a clean KO on switch and still get outspeed by Offensive variants.
Groudon is a incredible Ubers and he deserves a higher rank in the viability rank, hes pressence is important on balance and offensive teams and he still have a lot of potencial for the next few months.
A few of us wanted to raise Groudon, but not quite enough that it happened. Although Groudon is a very strong offensive threat that a lot of teams are weak to, it's held back by being pretty average as a defensive Pokemon (no reliable recovery, limited damage output, 4MSS) and struggles with the fact that nearly every team runs something that's at least a soft check to it in Yveltal.
Nominating Calyrex-Ice to B. Calyrex-I, while frequently overshadowed by its shadow sibling, is no pushover in the current meta. It is a nearly perfect counter to possibly the best, most dangerous Dragon Dancer in the tier, Zygarde. While it can struggle a bit to break defensive coil variants, it is by far one of the most reliable stops to it and is one of the few pokemon that can reliably scare it out through sub and paralysis. Calyrex even has the option of aromatherapy to thwart Zygarde's glaring antics, but overall doesn't terribly mind getting glared due to its already glacial pace (pun intended). Its ice STAB is useful outside of checking Zygarde, though, which on its own is extremely good. Its STAB is nearly unresisted and for many top tier pokemon, it is supereffective. Groudon, Yveltal, Zekrom, and Lugia all run away from it, not being able to OHKO it and getting crushed in return. Not to mention pokemon like Ho-oh and Ferrothorn, though bulky still getting absolutely slammed on switchin. Now, Calyrex can't switch in itself on these pokemon save for an aggressive prediction such as ferrothorn spiking, but if it gets in safely, it can be nightmarish to deal with. You would think it would get hard countered by the most common physical wall in the game in NDM, but Calyrex-I can easily run speed and swords dance to demolish Duskmane and from there a teammate like Zacian-Crowned can run over Duskmane's team. This being said, its speed is definitely Calyrex's Achilles Heel, letting it easily get picked off by the nigh mandatory Yveltal's Foul Play, the dangerous Calyrex-S's Astral Barrage, and the omnipresent Zacian-Crowned who can not only switch into a predicted Glacial Lance but vaporize it with a Behemoth Blade, allowing the opposing team to reclaim some offensive momentum. Hope is not all lost, though, as Calyrex-S and Yveltal dare not switch into its powerful STAB with the former being incredibly frail as well as the latter being hit supereffectively, and Zacian-C risks somewhat being hit by High Horsepower on the switch. This is however assuming they're switching into the Heavy-Duty Boots variant. These pokemon are dead to rights if they come in as Trick Room is set up. Calyrex-I's Trick Room set is possibly its scariest and maybe the most underrated lategame cleaner in the tier. A weakened Zacian-C is absolutely pummeled by high horsepower and seeing as weakening Zacian isn't too difficult because of how much action it sees throughout the battle and the chip it accrues by attacking into NDM's Rocky Helmet, most of the time, it is getting destroyed. Calyrex-S and Yveltal are destroyed by Calyrex-I's ice STAB, the former having to Sucker Punch for its life which its probably still not taking Calyrex down on account of its absolutely titanic bulk especially if it's a defensive variant and the former just crumbling to Glacial Lance's sheer strength. If it having near-unresisted Ice STAB wasn't enough, Calyrex-I also has an immense coverage movepool, patching holes in its not too large list of resistances. With a set of Glacial Lance, High Horsepower for steels and Seed Bomb for Kyogre, it can hit just about the entire tier. As a final note, a healthy Calyrex-I can also help out in a pinch against opposing sweepers on account of its massive bulk such as non-LO double dance Groudons and Scale Shot and Dragon Dance Zekroms. Overall, while Calyrex-I's speed and defensive typing can leave much to be desired as it's picked off by many common pokemon, its sheer strength in terms of STAB and stats, its titanic bulk otherwise, and its immense movepool cannot be understated and thusly, it should be promoted to B tier.
I was the only council member that voted against Calyrex-Ice rising to B. My biggest gripe with it is that it isn't Calyrex-Shadow, basically — why use its weird, niche cousin when you could use one of the strongest offensive threats Ubers has ever seen? The rest of the council, though, is pretty high on this Pokemon, mostly due to its versatility and the fact that it can hit deceptively hard.
Nominating Marshadow to A rank. I personally believe marshadow should be A rank as it poses a great threat in the metagame with its very strong LO/CB boosted Poltergeist as well as being a very offensive soft check to one of the strongest mons in the tier (Calyrex-S) with its technician boosted shadow sneak and having access to a very creative move, Spectral Thief which allows to turn the tables vs some Setup mons. There aren't any mons in the tier that hard-counter marshadow, the closest ones being Yveltal (Takes a lot from CC/Rock tomb as they mostly run Specially Defensive sets currently) Or Zygarde-C which still takes a fair amount from a LO boosted poltergeist 252+ Atk Life Orb Marshadow Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 157-187 (37.3 - 44.5%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery.
Another close vote that just barely didn't go through. There's no denying that Marshadow is a good breaker and passable revenge killer that's pretty scary to switch into, espeically if you don't have an Eternatus or a Zygarde. What holds it back from being a bit higher is a lack of versatility and splashability — you're only gonna see this on HO or balance teams that have the space for a breaker with little defensive synergy, and if you do see it you know pretty much exactly what it's gonna do.
I nominate calyrex-ice to A-. At least B+. Incredible bulk allows it to run great trick room/weakness policy sets. It can even set-up trick room itself. Pretty decent coverage, CC, high-horsepower, seed bomb (bye quag) on top of a powerful and accurate ice move, glacial lance. I guess the one of the only things holding it back it Necrozma-Dusk Mane being so popular. I consider it more viable than grimmsnarl, quagsire and dialga.
We all felt this was way too high for a Pokemon with such steep opportunity cost that's more or less checked by a Pokemon every team needs to run (Necrozma-Dusk-Mane). Calyrex-Ice has a niche, but it's definitely not as good as stuff like Palkia or Marshadow.
I would nominate Buzzwole all the way up to B (because I think it's like Quagsire--has a defined role but its niche could still lose to what it checks) from where it seems to be in C. In the advent of people running mons like Marshadow, Zekrom, and Zygarde more often to destroy the normal likes of Etern/NDM/Yv cores, Buzzwole is a great check to both that has better odds of avoiding the Gothitelle trap (Lunge crits) than something like NDM or Tangrowth. Bulk Up serves a rarely implemented but very possible wincon. Ice Punch + Lunge/Drain/Edge is great coverage to avoid being a more passive PhysDef wall.
Everyone approved this rising. Buzzwole has more defensive utility than we initially thought, and although I think you very strongly overrate Buzzwole's capacity to function as a win condition, the fact remains that it checks a number of scary Pokemon and is often bizarrely hard to get rid of.
I would also nominate Lugia down to B- because I consider its niche to be akin to the usefulness of Shedinja's. It's too passive, too terrified by Knock Off and all status, and too inconsistent at dealing with Zacian (which is its main utility). Ho-Oh outclasses it completely, much more than for Lugia just to be only one level below.
My biggest hang-up about Lugia is that it's mostly just inferior to Support Lunala. It's obscenely passive, difficult to fit on teams, and rarely gets anything done besides spreading around a bit of Paralysis which common clerics and status absorbers, none of which it can touch, can shrug off anyway. We pretty much all agreed that we were insane to have this thing as high as A-, and we went even a step further than your proposal of B- and kicked it all the way down to C+.
Darmanitan needs to move up the rankings real bad. It has literally 2 switchins which are ogre and ho-oh and literally turn takes out half of ogre and crash literally does 42- 50 to ho oh. Flinch chances exist as well. Both of these get slapped by etern which is commonly used in the tier as well. A smart player can seriously utilize darmantians potential and good movepool to their advantage and it srsly needs to go up.
The council favored this rising a good deal. I begrudgingly voted for it to move up to B-, but a few people who were more enthusiastic about it were enough to push it to B. Although I still stand by this having the ugliest/worst design of any Pokemon ever, it's actually kind of scary to switch into and has a really good speed tier for a scarfer. There's also this insane Sub+Belly Drum set for it that can 6-0 some teams on turn one if it gets the chance to. I think a number of us underrated Darmanitan-Galar, given how mediocre it was in the Isle of Armor DLC.
I think that's everything! Don't hesitate to reach out if you notice anything inaccurate or post in the thread if you'd like anything to change.
to B/B+
