[Gen6] CAP Viability Ranking Thread V2

[cbrevan]

Art by Sunfished
Taken over from Tadasuke; OP also based off his OP and the OU version of this thread​

Welcome to the official CAP Viability Rankings. In this thread, we as a community will rank every single usable Pokemon into ranks. In this thread, you're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in CAP and what rank they should fall under. The general idea of the topic is to rank each Pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Keep in mind that this thread will be heavily moderated, so please stay on topic and keep discussion on relevant Pokemon.

These users make up the viability council and have the final say on what gets moved in the ranking list. It is also their responsibility to gather community input and to make sure discussion remains on topic.

cbrevan

snake_rattler

ORAS CAP Viability Rankings

S Rank:The best of the best. Reserved for Pokemon who shape and define the CAP metagame and are a clear-cut above the rest. These Pokemon are typically very powerful offensive threats that are difficult to prepare for or are phenomenal support and defensive threats that provide significant utility or defensive potential, respectively. Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.​

S Rank

Aurumoth

Clefable

Tomohawk

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the CAP metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be overlooked when compared to their positive traits.

A+ Rank

Azumarill

Cawmodore

Charizard (Mega X)

Colossoil

Crucibelle (Mega)

Cyclohm

Diancie (Mega)

Gardevoir (Mega)

Keldeo

Landorus-T

Metagross (Mega)

Scizor (Mega)

Syclant

Tornadus-T

A Rank

Charizard (Mega Y)

Ferrothorn

Garchomp

Heatran

Jirachi

Kerfluffle

Kyurem-B

Latios

Manaphy

Medicham (Mega)

Pyroak

Rotom-W

Serperior

Skarmory

Slowbro

Stratagem

Talonflame

Volkraken

A- Rank

Fidgit

Gliscor

Gyarados (Mega)

Latias (Mega)

Lopunny (Mega)

Mollux

Necturna

Pinsir (Mega)

Slowbro (Mega)

Thundurus

Venusaur (Mega)

Volcanion

Weavile

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are good in the CAP metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the metagame. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential. Their niches are often smaller than those that are in A and S rank, which leads them to face some competition for a teamslot.

B+ Rank

Alakazam (Mega)

Altaria (Mega)

Amoonguss

Bisharp

Breloom

Chansey

Crucibelle

Excadrill

Gengar

Heracross (Mega)

Klefki

Krilowatt

Manectric (Mega)

Naviathan

Plasmanta

Politoed

Starmie

Swampert (Mega)

Tyranitar

Terrakion

Togekiss

B Rank

Alakazam

Arghonaut

Crawdaunt

Dragonite

Gyarados

Hippowdon

Kingdra

Kitsunoh

Latias

Magnezone

Mew

Scizor

Sharpedo (Mega)

Slowking

Tangrowth

Victini

Zapdos

B- Rank

Aerodactyl (Mega)

Alomomola

Celebi

Dragalge

Diggersby

Feraligatr

Gallade (Mega)

Gastrodon

Kabutops

Malaconda

Mamoswine

Omastar

Quagsire

Revenankh

Suicune

Volcorona

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the CAP metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

C Rank

Azelf

Blastoise (Mega)

Camerupt (Mega)

Cofagrigus

Conkeldurr

Cresselia

Empoleon

Goodra

Infernape

Kyurem

Magneton

Mandibuzz

Pidgeot (Mega)

Porygon2

Raikou

Reuniclus

Sceptile (Mega)

Staraptor

Sylveon

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are generally bad in the CAP metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on highly specialized teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.

D Rank

Abomasnow (Mega)

Aggron (Mega)

Blissey

Cloyster

Entei

Hoopa

Rotom-H

Sableye

Voodoom

 

[sparktrain]

How to not get your post deleted in the CAP Viability Rankings​

1. One-liners are kind of a no-brainer; they clutter up the thread and don’t really add anything to the discussion, as they are usually some kind of nitpick or minor correction. I’ll be deleting them unless they come from other CAP mods or the VR team.
   
   
2. This thread isn’t the place for petty arguments. Insulting one another isn’t okay; this thread should be focused on nominations. If you disagree about something, please handle it in a civil manner and do so within the context of this thread, i.e. "I disagree with your nomination of [X mon] to move to [Y rank] because of [Z metagame trend]"
   
   
3. If a VR team member asks you to move on, move on. Posts after that will probably be deleted. Also, please note that if a VR team member asks me to delete posts, I will do so. It would most likely be for one of the above reasons.
   
   
4. If your posts are incomprehensible or contain factual errors, I will probably delete them.
   
   
5. If you post in response to posts that will be or are deleted, your post will be deleted as well.
   
   
6. If you post a nomination of an unranked Pokemon to be ranked without replays to support your nomination, I will delete your post.

One more important point that I'd like to bring up is that viability is fluid. This is an interconnected web of Pokemon; it isn’t a food chain. There is no Pokemon that the metagame all revolves around that has a fixed rank – anything can change at any time if the metagame shifts in such a way that can account for it.

If VR team wants me to add or remove anything from this post, they are free to let me know. Special thanks to bludz for creating the original version of this post for the OU Viability Rankings.

 

[ryan]

I mostly just don't see anything that separates Mega Metagross from the rest of the Megas in the CAP metagame. As sparktrain mentioned, really great answers to Metagross, esp Pyroak and Cyclohm, are super common in the metagame, and other coverage-dependent checks such as Ferrothorn and Heatran are very common as well. It's a solid Pokemon, but it doesn't have the same low opportunity cost that other Megas such as Gardevoir and Diancie have. I wouldn't even mind seeing it in flat A because frankly I don't think it's on the same level as any of the other Megas in A+.

I'm also confused why Mega Pidgeot is only C+. Not much actually beats this thing in the CAP meta because Hidden Power Ground covers common checks such as Heatran, Cyclohm, Plasmanta, and Heatproof Neviathan (does ~50 iirc from the playtest to max HP). It outspeeds every CAP barring Stratagem, including the absurdly fast Cawmodore, and really punishes offensive teams without being a slouch against bulkier ones. It's easily better than irrelevant Pokemon in higher rankings such as Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Blastoise, and Terrakion, and I'd like to see it around flat B.

 

[Mova]

I'm not here to nominate anything, but I didn't realize that Pyroak became such a beast in the past few months! Did it rise because people now realize that he's supposed to be a physically defensive wall, rather than a bulky physical sweeper? Also, I've noticed that Mega Altaria and Mega Metagross have risen in usage and viability. Is that why Pyroak has risen as well?

 

[BigWigs]

I can't speak for the council, but yeah, one of Pyroak's main selling points is countering both Mega Metagross and Mega Altaria (as well as the major Fairy craze going around in CAP) with little effort. It's a super tough wall to take down, not quite as bulky as Heatran but you can't crit it and it carries Leech Seed and Aromatherapy so it's still good.

 

[Swede]

Can someone explain to me why we have dropped MegaZardX to A+ when there are still so few reliable answers in CAP to it, especially once it sets up a Dragon Dance? Colossoil is 2HKO by anything and Flare Blitz can kill unboosted, as a revenge killer it needs scarf to outspeed boosted Adamant. Physically Defensive Tomohawk is 2HKO by unboosted Flare Blitz and when Roosts can get set up on. Cyclohm can't win 1v1 against it unless it gets a high roll Dragon Pulse off. Stratagem loses to DD.

Argonaut is the only reliable thing CAP offers to handle it (and it still isn't a counter!) so why did it get knocked out of S rank?

 

[sparktrain]

Small note, the previous CAP VR thread had Zard X in A rank, so it was actually given a bump to A+ (a case could potentially be made for bumping it again though).

 

[Tadasuke]

We do need to add in Hoopa and Hoopa-U to the rankings. My immediate thoughts for Hoopa-U are A+ or S, having astronomically high attack and special attack paired with a good movepool. Strong STABs on the physical side being Hyperspace Fury and vaguely Zen Headbutt backed by a base 160 Attack stat can OHKO various defensive threats, and even 2HKO Tomohawk with a Jolly nature. Gunk Shot deals with the ever present threat of Fairies in the tier The SubSalac set turns it into a fast physical sweeper that can hit through Protect as well. The special set has access to Nasty Plot, Psyshock, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Grass Knot/Energy Ball, Dark Pulse, and Focus Blast. Not to mention that this thing will steal your opponent's item once it uses its own.

 

[MQJinx]

Smeargle for Removed

Baton Pass, its best set, is now dead, and now everything it tries to find a niche for it's outclassed by something else. It's outclassed by a suicide Stealth Rock + Spikes user by stuff like Fidgit, Custap Skarmory, and even Forretress since Fidgit at least has stuff like Encore, U-turn, and Whirlwind so it can do something else, Skarmory has Iron Head to mess up Diancie, and Forretress can use a last moment Explosion or Rapid Spin before going down. It's outclassed as a Sticky Web user by Necturna and Shuckle, as Necturna can threaten Colossoil with a Gras STAB and can hold a Colbur Berry to take pitiful damage from Knock Off and can burn with WIll-O-Wisp, while Shuckle also has Stealth Rock and moves like Encore to prevent setup, and it has the bulk to lay hazards down multiple times if needed. Smeargle does have access to Spore but it's too slow and frail to abuse it, is forced into 50-50s, gets screwed over by any Subsitute user, and is forced to lead, while all other hazard setters either have the speed or the bulk to come in later to set up hazards

 

[Exclaimer]

Smeargle absolutely needs to be removed, it has no use in this meta. Necturna is really the final nail in its coffin, because now it doesn't even have the niche of Sticky Web user.

As for Hoopa-U, I'm leaning towards A+. It has a lot of offensive potential, and destroys common Pokemon like Tomohawk and slow Fairies, but it has a hard time switching in to a lot of things. It's weak to the most spammable type, Fairy, and it's weak to U-turn, making it hard to switch in and gain momentum because it dies to the opponent's offensive pivots. Fairy type is omnipresent, and Altaria/Gardevoir/Diancie can outspeed it and deal a ton of damage. Lastly, its physical bulk is extremely low, and common priority really beats Hoopa down:

252+ Atk Colossoil Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa: 211-249 (70 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa: 262-310 (87 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa: 183-216 (60.7 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Hoopa-U is definitely an offensive powerhouse that nothing likes to switch in to, but it struggles to switch in to much itself. Balance and Stall really hate it though (RIP my stall teams) and that alone is A, it's versatility and ability to do something to offensive teams brings it to A+.

 

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

When we were making this, I completely forgot about some pokemon that were in the original version of this that we hadn't discussed. So yeah, Smeargle will go as well as Noivern should to and a couple others will most likely disappear from here. I will be bringing up certain pokemon to remove, so anything else that people feel strongly about, please let us know.

 

[jas61292]

So I'm going to argue that Mega Metagross should definitely stay S rank. So many of the metagames top threats fall in its wake, and there are very few ways you can deal with it at all. I know cbrevan mentioned Pyroak and Cyclohm putting a damper on it, but while that is somewhat true, not even they are completely reliable. Neither can OHKO in return, meaning they have to hit twice and possibly get in a recovery move before they can KO. And its not like Metagross is doing pitiful damage in return. It may not 2HKO but it is doing enough that both Pokemon have to be quite healthy to take it on. Not to mention that if Metagross happens to pick up an Attack boost from Meteor Mash it can potentially plow through either one of the two, baring burn hax. Even so, I won't argue that the two are not good answers. But the fact is that there is nothing that really automatically shuts it down completely, especially with the options it has for moves. I don't think any other Mega Pokemon in the game can handle nearly as many threats as it can, and that alone makes me think it deserves S rank. I mean, sure, maybe its not the greatest Pokemon in the game, but it is certainly on the same level (or higher *coughcolossoilcough*) as the other S rank Pokemon.

 

[Swede]

Can someone explain to me why we have dropped MegaZardX to A+ when there are still so few reliable answers in CAP to it, especially once it sets up a Dragon Dance? Colossoil is 2HKO by anything and Flare Blitz can kill unboosted, as a revenge killer it needs scarf to outspeed boosted Adamant. Physically Defensive Tomohawk is 2HKO by unboosted Flare Blitz and when Roosts can get set up on. Cyclohm can't win 1v1 against it unless it gets a high roll Dragon Pulse off. Stratagem loses to DD.

Argonaut is the only reliable thing CAP offers to handle it (and it still isn't a counter!) so why did it get knocked out of S rank?

Bumping this to suggest for Mega Charizard X into S rank. It seems nonsensically why it was originally A in the first place. Unless someone convinces me otherwise, this thing deserves it since CAP has offered nothing that OU already hasn't.

 

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

So I'm going to argue that Mega Metagross should definitely stay S rank. So many of the metagames top threats fall in its wake, and there are very few ways you can deal with it at all. I know cbrevan mentioned Pyroak and Cyclohm putting a damper on it, but while that is somewhat true, not even they are completely reliable. Neither can OHKO in return, meaning they have to hit twice and possibly get in a recovery move before they can KO. And its not like Metagross is doing pitiful damage in return. It may not 2HKO but it is doing enough that both Pokemon have to be quite healthy to take it on. Not to mention that if Metagross happens to pick up an Attack boost from Meteor Mash it can potentially plow through either one of the two, baring burn hax. Even so, I won't argue that the two are not good answers. But the fact is that there is nothing that really automatically shuts it down completely, especially with the options it has for moves. I don't think any other Mega Pokemon in the game can handle nearly as many threats as it can, and that alone makes me think it deserves S rank. I mean, sure, maybe its not the greatest Pokemon in the game, but it is certainly on the same level (or higher *coughcolossoilcough*) as the other S rank Pokemon.

I really don't agree with this at all, Mega Metagross really isn't as powerful as what it once was and most teams carry checks to it like Mega Scizor, Pyroak, Cyclohm as well as Hippowdon and Skarm (which I love using). More notable ones are Cyclohm and Pyroak which have already been mentioned which do beat it 1v1 as Cyclohm can either block the secondary effects or it has a chance to paralyse it and Pyroak can't get crit; both are also 3hko'd even after rocks

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 132-156 (29.7 - 35.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery.

252 Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cyclohm: 152-180 (36.2 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery.

As well as these, a lot of people also used things like Scarfed Mollux and Volk, and Talonflame is Ev'd to outspeed Cawmodore so its gonna outspeed MegaGross as well. The way the meta has evolved has really put a downer on it and made it much less effective.

Also, if you really don't think Colossoil is S rank, which is strongly implied, then you really need to look at the impact of what it does to this meta. Honestly, it's borderline broken and nothing else can do what it does; providing near unblockable spin support and utility + amazing offensive dual stab.

 

[Exclaimer]

Gonna nom Jirachi to B+ because B- is extremely low for one of the better utility checks in the metagame. It's one of the best answers to Clefable, Mega Altaria, Mega Gardevoir, Tomohawk, Diancie, Sylveon, Mega Venusaur, and many other things in the A/B ranks. It has the capability to function as a great Wish passer, Paralysis spreader, and it can hax its way past some of its checks. Its movepool is enormous, going from specially defensive, to Scarf, and anything inbetween, and its stats are great for taking hits from many of the things it answers well.

 

[Mova]

Naviathan seems to have been in the Metagame for long enough, so would it okay to nominate him for a rank as well?

If so, I nominate Naviathan for B because once Water immunities are gone, the Calm Mind set can wreck things after multiple boosts. It also has better HP than Slowbro, and resists Stealth Rock. The Dragon Dance set, unfortunately, requires Life Orb, which is bad, and is outclassed by Mega Gyarados. Its special movepool actually has what it needs, though.

 

[cbrevan]

After looking over the posts in this thread, the council has decided over these changes:
Mega Metagross S to A+
Mega Charizard-X A+ to S
Jirachi B- to B+
Smeargle C- to Unranked

 

[Sota Higurashi]

Staraptor C --> B

Reasoning: Star has a nice twosome of abilities; reckless and Intimidate. Reckless and Choice Band are a fearsome combination, allowing star to 2KO phys def cyclohm with double edge and KO Phys Def Pyroak and Tomo with Brave Bird. It can plow though other common walls such as Slowbro and Clefable. Note these are all usually physical walls. Close Combat is a nice coverage move with a lot of power that can defeat things double edge and brave bird cannot, such as heatran and Naviathan.

 

[Exclaimer]

I have a hard time seeing the effectiveness of Staraptor in a metagame where Cyclohm is the goto counter for physical nukes, ESPECIALLY Birdspam. Plus, Staraptor really relies on prediction and hazard removal to nuke the stuff it wants, which is very detrimental, because if you switch out you've essentially lost 50% of your health from Stealth Rock if it's up, whatever recoil you took, and momentum. Intimidate is completely useless on Staraptor, as it's the last thing you're gonna look for as an offensive Intimidate pivot. Landorus says hello.

I can see a move to C+ because hazard removal is easy to come by in this meta, but Staraptor has added downsides with faster Pokemon plentiful, priority everywhere, and Cyclohm, Mega Scizor, Mega Slowbro, Mega Metagross, and TankChomp making it a self-destructive whimpering mess against balance, which is still #1 in CAP right now.

 

[cbrevan]

B is out of the question but a bump to C+ seems reasonable. Staraptor's main use is to blow holes in common Flying spam checks such as Rotom-W, Cyclohm, and Slowbro to open up a sweep by Mega Pinsir/Talonflame/Cawmodore/Tornadus-T. Reckless Band sets have the ability to 2hko almost every physical wall in the tier, save Skarmory, so as long you can land the right move you can really soften up defensive cores. I do agree that Staraptor's reliance on prediction, frailty, and lackluster speed hold it back, but its a lot more viable than everything in C and even some stuff in C+. Its specific to a single team type and needs a lot of support to function, but so does everything else in C+.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Okay, I think it's time we talk about Naviathan's rank. He's been out pretty much the same amount of time as Hoopa-U, and Hoops has a rank so it it only makes sense, right?

 

[Exclaimer]

Eh. I'm thinking B- or C+ to be honest.

It's role as a dragon dance sweeper is just outclassed. I think we can all agree with that, despite Naviathan's better coverage, Gyarados and Feraligatr both do Dragon Dance water type better, as both of them are bulky enough to actually dance properly, as well as not dying to their own Life Orb recoil all day. Naviathan can do well against Talonflame for a dancer, sure, but I think that's where the upsides end.

Calm Mind is a lot different, as it can really pose problems for stall... a style that is starting to whimper out in the face of Hoopa and other stallbreakers that are so common nowadays. It's hard to justify using Naviathan, who's best use against offensive teams is to stop Talonflame, which, again, is not that hard to come by (Cyclohm and Diancie say hi).

This is purely from having fought it once or twice against people on lower ladder. Nobody uses it, and I sure don't use it, so I'm not even sure if what I've said is even that accurate in this meta. It's getting so little use, and that's saddening.


Edit to Healndeal: I must have been under the impression that Feraligatr is bulkier for whatever reason. However... Feraligatr does still have one enormous merit over Naviathan: It doesn't suffer from its own recoil, while having enormous power levels that Naviathan struggles to achieve.

 

[Mova]

I was actually originally thinking B-, but I eventually changed my mind to B for a while due to Naviathan's HP in comparison to Mega Slowbro. Even though higher defenses are more important than higher HP, both Mega Slowbro and Naviathan have access to Calm Mind, Scald, and a recovery move (in this case, Slack Off), but M-Bro has much higher Defense and Special Attack. The only thing going for Navi is Speed, but I'm not sure if a tank needs that so much in comparison to a sweeper. Both of these Pokémon are tanks, I suppose.

Also, Flash Cannon instead of Taunt could beat Clefable if you felt like it.

This isn't Malaconda or Voodoom, but is slightly better than either. As such, I agree with Exclaimer's points, but not to bandwagon or anything.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Gyarados and Feraligatr both do Dragon Dance water type better, as both of them are bulky enough to actually dance properly

Just want to say that stat wise Naviathan is bulkier than Feraligatr, as Naviathan is significantly physically bulkier and really the special bulk is so close to being the same between the mons. If talking about how Feralgatr is better than Navi at dancing, it's the Sheer Force and the incredibly increased attacking prowess that comes with it.

I think we all agree that Naviathan is not A range material. CAP stall and semi-stall actually aren't that uncommon, and so in theory the CM set should have some chops to it. Maybe things like wall Tomo and Cyclohm put a damper in this plan, maybe there's something else going, or maybe there's some variation of the CM set that could be used for more success. In any event, I guess I'd like to ask you guys to do some Naviathan testing and provide replays of its success and failures. Currently, my head is thinking around B-ish, but I'd really like to see it in action more.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Can I suggest toge be moved up?

It can 1v1 3 of 5 S Rank.
It completely walls Tomo and Colo most of the time. You might want to look out for random Stone Miss from Colo, but it's mostly a reliable counter. It also has a favorable match up vs Clefable. I run a set with defog, roost, np, air slash which works pretty well and it really should be higher up.