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Battle Maison Discussion & Records
- Thread starter NoCheese
- Start date
Running a 90 accuracy move in the maison is nothing but noobish. Without reliable moves, you cannot win every battle. My boosted Cloyster is usually at 1 HP. Failing rock blast next move would mean to lose Cloyster without dealing any damage to my opponent. Inacceptable. I will leave explosion on it until I found something better, which might not happen.
The meaning of my name means being at least one step ahead and in regards to my team tending to be up a mon (if Im about to lose my mon, you lose your mon instead).
Yes, but first of all nobody used the team that Im using, TDP has no dd/ss to outspeed the whole maison, Joshs Aegislash probably works similarly well (maybe even better in terms of stamina) like my mega Metagross since both have steel type that resist Dragonites weaknesses and are tanky. His Greninja is a glass cannon without a sash so I would never consider him to be part of my team and Im surprised how well it worked out for him. Im not screwed if my opponents lead counters my lead because mega Metagross will resist it, but there are tricky scenarios. Against some leads, I cannot switch to Metagross, but in worst case I can turn it into a 2v2, having an even position. In that case I just have to work harder for the win. It is ridiculous that the rest of my team was able to win battles in which I lost Dragonite in round 1 for no reason due to misplay.
If you looked closer to the teams they used, you will find Gliscor being part in many of them, which means they lost even with a defensive mon and even when they had 2 (TDPs 1476 and 810 streak using Greninja, mega Scizor and Gliscor). You can find many teams in the list which have 1 or 2 defensive pokemon included but lost on the way to 1000 wins. I will believe in my approach and my team until the game proves me wrong and Joshs team proved that an offensive rather than defensive team is able to get a high streak. He didnt use substitute either.
Nobody is really stopping you from playing it the way you liked, but this was your question
and you had your answer, which is, the only way to make it better is make it less prone to hax by having a defensive mon rather than 3 offensive ones. No real reason to get angry over it :P
Im angry? The answers dont satisfy me at all. Theres no concrete answer, no concrete suggestion to use mon xyz instead for reasons abc having EVs and moves for reason fgh and so on. I didnt came here to tell all of you "Dragonite, mega Metagross and Cloyster" is just the best team for super singles maison, but I found this team and it does insanely well, so I was asking "if this team isnt the best, what should be changed to make it the best?". Im honestly considering focus sash surf, psychic, icebeam, shell smash Gorebyss could be superior due to insane surf damage and better coverage, but it all depends on if Gorebyss would be able to OHKO most of them after 1 ss. Also, I find mega Metagross is quite the right balance between offense and defense and due to Dragonites multiscale, there are only a few threats on which it cant setup, making it somewhat tanky depending on what is thrown at it, so I dont really see 3 offensive mon in my team.
Youre nothing but a goddamn troll. Iron head has 100 acc.
You're right, I'm thinking of meteor mash, that's actually just my bad. You're still bad tho
One burn and you're fucked.
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Multiscale
Adamant
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 4 SpD / 188 Spe (EVs copied from turskain)
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Clear Body
Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
- Explosion
- Iron Head
- Bullet Punch
- Thunder Punch
Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Skill Link
Naughty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: x/31/x/31/x/31
- Surf
- Explosion
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash
No why? Round 1: dd, Dragonite gets burned, lum berry cures. Round 2: Dragonite usually sweeps through their whole team using outrage OHKOs or 2HKOs in almost all cases. Not having lum berry to cure confusion after outrage is fine because I will be up 1 or 2 mons, as trading lum berry for a mon almost guarantees me the win. Burn on Metagross isnt really bad, talking from the battles I had, it doesnt stand a chance against fire mons anyway, which is fine. Fire mons are in general easy to deal with because theyre so fragile. Explosion can still deal a bunch of damage if needed.
Cloyster could suffer badly from a burn though, but it never happened because the team is just so strong that I dont have to rely on my last mon if Cloyster ever was my last mon. One of the biggest threats to Cloyster is something like it sets up shell smash and gets hit by flamethrower, falling to 1 hp and gets burned, so the burn will finish it off sadly, same with poison and sandstorm. Any other status changing move could also mess up Cloyster, so it is indeed vulnerable to such moves, but only in combination with damage dealing moves. Because there are some extremely stallish and defensive mons in the maison that only go for status infliction, giving Cloyster enough time to finish them.
Alright, Ive been thinking about replacing Cloyster. While it is a great mon itself that can smash through whole teams at times, it doesnt do anything for the team and comes with low risk of getting KOed during set up. So Ive been looking for a new teammember that has awesome synergy to the dragon steel core. Ideally, it would have ice, water and ground resistances and is generally bulky with a decent attack stat, but that is probably too much to ask for. Not having those resistances but having great defensive stats which make it very bulky and having a decent attack stat is also fine. This made me think of
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Analytic
Modest
EVs: 216 HP / 40 Def / 252 SpA
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/x
- Recover
- Substitute
- Icebeam
- Discharge / Tri Attack
Ive also considered water mons like Suicune and Milotic or even water + ice mons like Walrein, but Im not sure about them yet.
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Analytic
Modest
EVs: 216 HP / 40 Def / 252 SpA
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/x
- Recover
- Substitute
- Icebeam
- Discharge / Tri Attack
Ive also considered water mons like Suicune and Milotic or even water + ice mons like Walrein, but Im not sure about them yet.
Last edited:
You know when you win a game after another after another, (especially when your team takes about 5 minutes for each battle to win), you just stop caring a bit and feel you wanna go faster and not check on sets in every game. After about a month of playing, I lost at battle #281 and man streaks end at when you expect least to lose. Definitely was a mistake that I made on how I lost, I was lazy to check on Talonflame's sets and I definitely would have won that game if I checked about the Sitrus Berry it held. I honestly expected to win more and I still believe this team could make a better streak so I plan to go another run with it.
THE BATTLE #281:
AGCW-WWWW-WW5T-4SEA
THE TEAM:
Hammie ♥UwU♥ (Durant♀) @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 HP / 28 SpD / 228 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/--/31/31
- Entrainment
- Dig
- Iron Head
- Protect
Protect & Dig existing to PP stall some stuff. Since Hammie is always faster than anything (excluding speed boosters). like this:
Turn 1: Hammie uses Entrainment
Hammie survives a hit
Turn 2: Hammie switching to Darweesh
foe loafing around
Turn 3: Darweesh uses Protect
Turn 4: Darweesh switches to Hammie
foe loafing around
Turn 5: Protect/ Dig
Turn 6: both Hammie & foe loafing around
and Hammie spams Protect then switches to Darweesh at the turn they loaf around
and the next round with Dig if needed. However, committing to use Dig means Hammie has to use all 16 pp of Dig in order to have a safe switch to Darweesh to setup.
Darweesh (Drapion♂) @ Black Sludge
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
IVs: 31/31/31/-/31/31
- Acupressure
- Protect
- Substitute
- Knock Off
There are situations I get in that make me wonder whether Glalie is better than Drapion and I'm still not very sure but I like Drapion more.
m733w (Skarmory♂) @ Red Card
Nature: Timid
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 12 SpD / 244 Spe
IVs: 31/2/31/--/31/31
- Taunt
- Thief
- Whirlwind
- Flash
I made sure to minimize the attack of m733w with low IVs and Timid just in case Thief doesn't randomly crit a Ghost-type or something.
This is the most team member that I think of changing because there are alot of good values that can be put together, however; you can't have a perfect pokémon with everything you need.
Things that I consider when choosing the Red Card holder:
(Taunt - Roar/Whirlwind - Thunderwave - Thief - Charm - Memento - Sturdy - Good defences - Speed)
all these things are what make a pokémon of this role better, but what to keep and what to give up......
I would love to hear feedback and other ideas on what to pick here or what would make this team better
THE BATTLE #281:
AGCW-WWWW-WW5T-4SEA
THE TEAM:
Hammie ♥UwU♥ (Durant♀) @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 HP / 28 SpD / 228 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/--/31/31
- Entrainment
- Dig
- Iron Head
- Protect
Protect & Dig existing to PP stall some stuff. Since Hammie is always faster than anything (excluding speed boosters). like this:
Turn 1: Hammie uses Entrainment
Hammie survives a hit
Turn 2: Hammie switching to Darweesh
foe loafing around
Turn 3: Darweesh uses Protect
Turn 4: Darweesh switches to Hammie
foe loafing around
Turn 5: Protect/ Dig
Turn 6: both Hammie & foe loafing around
and Hammie spams Protect then switches to Darweesh at the turn they loaf around
and the next round with Dig if needed. However, committing to use Dig means Hammie has to use all 16 pp of Dig in order to have a safe switch to Darweesh to setup.
Darweesh (Drapion♂) @ Black Sludge
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
IVs: 31/31/31/-/31/31
- Acupressure
- Protect
- Substitute
- Knock Off
There are situations I get in that make me wonder whether Glalie is better than Drapion and I'm still not very sure but I like Drapion more.
m733w (Skarmory♂) @ Red Card
Nature: Timid
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 12 SpD / 244 Spe
IVs: 31/2/31/--/31/31
- Taunt
- Thief
- Whirlwind
- Flash
I made sure to minimize the attack of m733w with low IVs and Timid just in case Thief doesn't randomly crit a Ghost-type or something.
This is the most team member that I think of changing because there are alot of good values that can be put together, however; you can't have a perfect pokémon with everything you need.
Things that I consider when choosing the Red Card holder:
(Taunt - Roar/Whirlwind - Thunderwave - Thief - Charm - Memento - Sturdy - Good defences - Speed)
all these things are what make a pokémon of this role better, but what to keep and what to give up......
I would love to hear feedback and other ideas on what to pick here or what would make this team better
Last edited:
Can you explain more about m733w? Do you feel that there may be a better backup debuffer who can switch in as a ground immunity? It appears folks have had success with Gliscor as a staller. Gliscor also wouldn't share the fire weakness with Durant. Did Talonflame win with fire moves?
I'd like to hear about how you chose 244 speed EVs and also Red Card. I assume Red Card gets you a safe switch against fast threats?
With how strong Durant and Drapion are at getting good streaks together, did you find yourself using Skarmory much?
So, the idea is to have Hammie use Entrainment and then safe switching to Darweesh setting up +6 in everything and kill everything. Sometimes, hammie's Entrainment gets protected, so it'risky to take a hit knowing that the foe could protect every other turn and hitting Hammie for free. So I switch to m733w who most of the times uses Taunt to proc the Red Card or to prevent Protect. Another times, I see foes like Lapras4 with Block/Perish Song or Donphan4 with its Quick Claw Fissure. So m733w can just come in and make them switch out with his Red Card. I just realize I forgot to include the abilities (Skarmory with Sturdy) is what makes him survive OHKO's so I don't worry about fire moves to kill m733w.
The match I lost to was vs lead Nidoking4
Turn1: Entraintment
nope, Nidoking uses Protect
Turn2: Hammie switches to m733w
Nidoking misses Earthquake
Turn3: Taunt into Protect
Turn4: Taunt
Nidoking Megahorn, Red Card switches Nidoking into Talonflame4.
Turn5: Taunt
Talonflame4 uses Flare Blitz and m733w survives still
Turn6: m733w uses Thief and that's where I f*cked up because Talonflame lost it's Sitrus Berry which I should have had info about if I checked.
Talon flame swings with Brave Bird killing m733w
Turn7: Hammie successfully uses Entrainment
Talonflame OHKO'ing Hammie with Flare Blitz and dying to heavy recoil
Turn8: Nidoking comes in vs Darweesh and keeps pressure with Earthquake until I lose.
Pokémons with high dmg and speed are never a problem at all. the reason I lost is because Talonflame killed itself with recoil which brought another pokémon that was not hit by Entrainment.
I put max speed EVs & Nature on m733w because he has Sturdy anyway, so I would mainly want m733w to land a Taunt atleast.
(252 EV = 134 Speed
244 EV = 133 Speed which is enough to outspeed alot of pokémons with 132 speed like Medicham4)
but come to think of it, I might change it (not sure if more or less though)
NOTHING outspeeds a 228 Spe Durant @ Choice Scarf in the battle maison except for Aerodactyl1 which can never OHKO Hammie even with a crit.
228 Spe is enough to surpass Manectric4 & Entei3 which have fire moves
Skarmory is used about 15-20% of the times, but when he comes in, he solves the problems.
There are also rare cases where after Darweesh fully sets up and KO's the 1st foe, I see a ghost type with potential Destiny Bond so I protect and make sure before swinging. Sometimes, I switch to Skarmory to Durant to Darweesh and set up all over again just to avoid falling for Destiny Bond.
Sorry for not explaining much earlier, I hope everyone has a clearer idea now of them team and thanks for the feedback.
So this is my first time posting on the site, so I hope that I am posting this to the right location and in the right format. I know I am a little late to the game, but I have finally gotten around to getting all of the trophies in the Battle Maison. I finally got the triple battle trophy, the last one I needed, today August 12th, 2019. Proof below. In addition to this feat I also found that one of my teams might be worth mentioning.
Proof of all 5 trophies
My Multi Battle team reached a decent streak of 70 wins, while working with Steven Stone.
Proof of Multi Record
Hydreigon (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
IV’s: 31/5/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 5 Atk
- Earth Power
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
Salamence (F) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
IV’s: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Return
Bear with me as this was the first trophy I obtained and was around 5 years ago. Hydreigon was used as a solid sweeper covering as many types as I could. I would try and predict what my partner would use in order to take down as many foes as possible.
Salamence is a different story. The investment into her special defense in combination with intimidate allowed me to usually set up a dragon dance or two. From there I would just hit with whatever it took to win the battle; again trying to anticipate what Steven would use. Not the most tactical of my teams, but still fun. Unfortunetly, since this streak ended a while ago I never saved the video, nor do I remember what I lost to.
Proof of all 5 trophies
My Multi Battle team reached a decent streak of 70 wins, while working with Steven Stone.
Proof of Multi Record
Hydreigon (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
IV’s: 31/5/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 5 Atk
- Earth Power
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
Salamence (F) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
IV’s: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Return
Bear with me as this was the first trophy I obtained and was around 5 years ago. Hydreigon was used as a solid sweeper covering as many types as I could. I would try and predict what my partner would use in order to take down as many foes as possible.
Salamence is a different story. The investment into her special defense in combination with intimidate allowed me to usually set up a dragon dance or two. From there I would just hit with whatever it took to win the battle; again trying to anticipate what Steven would use. Not the most tactical of my teams, but still fun. Unfortunetly, since this streak ended a while ago I never saved the video, nor do I remember what I lost to.
Reporting an ongoing streak of 1025 wins in super singles.
Proof (1000th win): https://youtu.be/Zt4NdSmAGDE
My Team:
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Multiscale
Adamant
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 4 SpD / 188 Spe (EVs copied from turskain)
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Clear Body
Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Thunder Punch
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Analytic
Modest
EVs: 216 HP / 40 Def / 252 SpA
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/x
- Recover
- Icebeam
- Substitute
- Discharge
Until battle 515, Cloyster was my third teammember. Some notes and threats for my team:
Dragonite should switch out if their lead is an ice type, water type (except Curse Swampert and Curse Quagsire and those that do not have an ice move) or some rock types. Flinch can also be very bad (i. e. scarfed Rock Slide Braviary). In general, I switch to Metagross if his lead is an ice type, rock type or fairy type and to Porygon2 if his lead is a water type (except Calm Mind Suicune since it could setup on it). Furthermore, there are a few leads such as Walrein4, Cryogonal which make it too risky to switch out because of things like Sheer Cold. In this case, I try to inflict as much damage with Dragonite right away and finish it with Metagross for an even 2v2 if Dragonite does not survive. Some other leads force Dragonite to attack right away without boosting, such as Tyrantrum. I never looked up movesets so I got surprised sometimes, but there was nothing I could not handle, even though a few battles were really close. Some annoying leads are Jynx (because of Blizzard and Lovely Kiss), Ferrothorn (especially if it comes in second or last and Dragonite was defeated, making it a long stallish battle), Terrakion since it also threatens Metagross with Earthquake, Zoroark because it can pretend to be an ice type and OHKO Metagross right on the switch with Dark Pulse (only happened once).
Dragonite's Extreme Speed turned out to be very useful in some situations, such as during Trick Room, against other priority, Salac Berry and Custap Berry users, against Alakazam after 1 Dragon Dance to OHKO it and continue sweeping, for revenge kills and for not getting locked into Outrage when Earthquake is no option.
Metagross is very well rounded, gets outplayed very rarely and makes a great teammember. However, it cannot deal with most ground types and fast fire types though since some can OHKO it with Flare Blitz or Overheat. Shadow Ball users have never been an issue and Dark Pulse users rarely can be. Sometimes it gets frozen by Blizzard or Ice Beam on the switch. If Metagross can OHKO or finish the enemy off, I do not activate its Mega because the next enemy that comes in could have Intimidate Ability.
Porygon2 brings some additional bulk to the team, having amazing defensive stats thanks to Eviolite and only 1 type weakness. EVs are chosen so that it has equal Def and SpD stats. Analytic gives it just the right attack boost against fast enemies and it can take down a large pool of enemies. Often it can tank extremely strong attacks and PP stall them if needed (I rarely do that). The focus is always on taking enemies down fast and if it does not take too many additional rounds I also bring out a Substitute, as well as I start with Substitute against some enemies. It cannot deal with any fighting type, especially Cobalion because Sacred Sword is a guaranteed 2HKO (Thunderbolt could finish it though if Cobalion started with around 50% of its HP from previous battling, but Discharge cannot. This seems to be the only situation so far where I wish I had Thunderbolt), Chandelure with Infiltrator Ability ignoring Substitute, Trick users stealing its Eviolite (only happened once so far), Calm Mind and some Curse users like Swampert and Quagsire, any pokemon that has more speed and has a OHKO/annoying status move (sleep, paralysis) so that Porygon2 does not get a chance to bring out his Substitute. In general, I try to keep at least another teammember alive if possible, so that I do not end up with Porygon2 in a hopeless situation since it is my weakest teammember in regard of dealing damage per turn.
Proof (1000th win): https://youtu.be/Zt4NdSmAGDE
My Team:
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Multiscale
Adamant
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 4 SpD / 188 Spe (EVs copied from turskain)
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Clear Body
Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Thunder Punch
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Analytic
Modest
EVs: 216 HP / 40 Def / 252 SpA
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/x
- Recover
- Icebeam
- Substitute
- Discharge
Until battle 515, Cloyster was my third teammember. Some notes and threats for my team:
Dragonite should switch out if their lead is an ice type, water type (except Curse Swampert and Curse Quagsire and those that do not have an ice move) or some rock types. Flinch can also be very bad (i. e. scarfed Rock Slide Braviary). In general, I switch to Metagross if his lead is an ice type, rock type or fairy type and to Porygon2 if his lead is a water type (except Calm Mind Suicune since it could setup on it). Furthermore, there are a few leads such as Walrein4, Cryogonal which make it too risky to switch out because of things like Sheer Cold. In this case, I try to inflict as much damage with Dragonite right away and finish it with Metagross for an even 2v2 if Dragonite does not survive. Some other leads force Dragonite to attack right away without boosting, such as Tyrantrum. I never looked up movesets so I got surprised sometimes, but there was nothing I could not handle, even though a few battles were really close. Some annoying leads are Jynx (because of Blizzard and Lovely Kiss), Ferrothorn (especially if it comes in second or last and Dragonite was defeated, making it a long stallish battle), Terrakion since it also threatens Metagross with Earthquake, Zoroark because it can pretend to be an ice type and OHKO Metagross right on the switch with Dark Pulse (only happened once).
Dragonite's Extreme Speed turned out to be very useful in some situations, such as during Trick Room, against other priority, Salac Berry and Custap Berry users, against Alakazam after 1 Dragon Dance to OHKO it and continue sweeping, for revenge kills and for not getting locked into Outrage when Earthquake is no option.
Metagross is very well rounded, gets outplayed very rarely and makes a great teammember. However, it cannot deal with most ground types and fast fire types though since some can OHKO it with Flare Blitz or Overheat. Shadow Ball users have never been an issue and Dark Pulse users rarely can be. Sometimes it gets frozen by Blizzard or Ice Beam on the switch. If Metagross can OHKO or finish the enemy off, I do not activate its Mega because the next enemy that comes in could have Intimidate Ability.
Porygon2 brings some additional bulk to the team, having amazing defensive stats thanks to Eviolite and only 1 type weakness. EVs are chosen so that it has equal Def and SpD stats. Analytic gives it just the right attack boost against fast enemies and it can take down a large pool of enemies. Often it can tank extremely strong attacks and PP stall them if needed (I rarely do that). The focus is always on taking enemies down fast and if it does not take too many additional rounds I also bring out a Substitute, as well as I start with Substitute against some enemies. It cannot deal with any fighting type, especially Cobalion because Sacred Sword is a guaranteed 2HKO (Thunderbolt could finish it though if Cobalion started with around 50% of its HP from previous battling, but Discharge cannot. This seems to be the only situation so far where I wish I had Thunderbolt), Chandelure with Infiltrator Ability ignoring Substitute, Trick users stealing its Eviolite (only happened once so far), Calm Mind and some Curse users like Swampert and Quagsire, any pokemon that has more speed and has a OHKO/annoying status move (sleep, paralysis) so that Porygon2 does not get a chance to bring out his Substitute. In general, I try to keep at least another teammember alive if possible, so that I do not end up with Porygon2 in a hopeless situation since it is my weakest teammember in regard of dealing damage per turn.
Reporting an ongoing streak of 1025 wins in super singles.
Proof (1000th win): https://youtu.be/Zt4NdSmAGDE
My Team:
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Multiscale
Adamant
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 4 SpD / 188 Spe (EVs copied from turskain)
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Clear Body
Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Thunder Punch
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Analytic
Modest
EVs: 216 HP / 40 Def / 252 SpA
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/x
- Recover
- Icebeam
- Substitute
- Discharge
Until battle 515, Cloyster was my third teammember. Some notes and threats for my team:
Dragonite should switch out if their lead is an ice type, water type (except Curse Swampert and Curse Quagsire and those that do not have an ice move) or some rock types. Flinch can also be very bad (i. e. scarfed Rock Slide Braviary). In general, I switch to Metagross if his lead is an ice type, rock type or fairy type and to Porygon2 if his lead is a water type (except Calm Mind Suicune since it could setup on it). Furthermore, there are a few leads such as Walrein4, Cryogonal which make it too risky to switch out because of things like Sheer Cold. In this case, I try to inflict as much damage with Dragonite right away and finish it with Metagross for an even 2v2 if Dragonite does not survive. Some other leads force Dragonite to attack right away without boosting, such as Tyrantrum. I never looked up movesets so I got surprised sometimes, but there was nothing I could not handle, even though a few battles were really close. Some annoying leads are Jynx (because of Blizzard and Lovely Kiss), Ferrothorn (especially if it comes in second or last and Dragonite was defeated, making it a long stallish battle), Terrakion since it also threatens Metagross with Earthquake, Zoroark because it can pretend to be an ice type and OHKO Metagross right on the switch with Dark Pulse (only happened once).
Dragonite's Extreme Speed turned out to be very useful in some situations, such as during Trick Room, against other priority, Salac Berry and Custap Berry users, against Alakazam after 1 Dragon Dance to OHKO it and continue sweeping, for revenge kills and for not getting locked into Outrage when Earthquake is no option.
Metagross is very well rounded, gets outplayed very rarely and makes a great teammember. However, it cannot deal with most ground types and fast fire types though since some can OHKO it with Flare Blitz or Overheat. Shadow Ball users have never been an issue and Dark Pulse users rarely can be. Sometimes it gets frozen by Blizzard or Ice Beam on the switch. If Metagross can OHKO or finish the enemy off, I do not activate its Mega because the next enemy that comes in could have Intimidate Ability.
Porygon2 brings some additional bulk to the team, having amazing defensive stats thanks to Eviolite and only 1 type weakness. EVs are chosen so that it has equal Def and SpD stats. Analytic gives it just the right attack boost against fast enemies and it can take down a large pool of enemies. Often it can tank extremely strong attacks and PP stall them if needed (I rarely do that). The focus is always on taking enemies down fast and if it does not take too many additional rounds I also bring out a Substitute, as well as I start with Substitute against some enemies. It cannot deal with any fighting type, especially Cobalion because Sacred Sword is a guaranteed 2HKO (Thunderbolt could finish it though if Cobalion started with around 50% of its HP from previous battling, but Discharge cannot. This seems to be the only situation so far where I wish I had Thunderbolt), Chandelure with Infiltrator Ability ignoring Substitute, Trick users stealing its Eviolite (only happened once so far), Calm Mind and some Curse users like Swampert and Quagsire, any pokemon that has more speed and has a OHKO/annoying status move (sleep, paralysis) so that Porygon2 does not get a chance to bring out his Substitute. In general, I try to keep at least another teammember alive if possible, so that I do not end up with Porygon2 in a hopeless situation since it is my weakest teammember in regard of dealing damage per turn.
OK what's the plan here? The OP says hacked/ROM Pokemon aren't eligible for the leaderboard and even if they were, you seem to have convinced zero people in this thread that you won this many consecutive battles legitimately. If I just typed out "Wow you are the greatest Pokemon master of all time! You went 1025-0 even though you never looked up a single moveset and drastically altered your team halfway through just for the fun of it" would that satisfy you, or will you be back in another couple weeks saying you're at 1550 with a Rest+Sleep Talk Milotic in Porygon2's place?
edit: actually taking a couple weeks to get to 1550 would be a major drop-off from the pace you've been on as of late. That Porygon2 was hatched on August 18th - 510 wins in a less than a week has to be some kind of crazy record-setting pace. It feels like such a tease that we can only see that one video (a poorly played one at that) as "proof" when you've been ripping through 80+ battles a day.
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I dont understand the hate. Are you saying my pokemons are cheated? How are they cheated? Ive traded/bred them. The OP threat does not say anything about playing the maison on ROM. About people in this thread: I dont understand their mindset. To me it seems theres a belief that in order to reach high streaks, one would have to play extremely long and stallish battles over and over again. I dont wanna be "the greatest pokemon master of all time" or anything like that. There are 2 things that motivate me to keep on playing the maison: 1. To prove that offensive bulky teams can perform well and 2. Im interested about when my streak ends.
Also, I came here to bring some life to this thread, as well as discussing about team optimizations. But it seems nobody cares and instead prefers to write whatever comes first in their mind without thinking. It is true that I never looked up movesets, but Im learning from what my opponents throw at me and improve my counterplay based on that. As I wrote, I replaced Cloyster for Porygon2 to get better team synergy. Cloyster itself is great but it cannot be used for switch ins during battle. I will actually be inactive for more than a month because I have to finish my thesis, thats why I posted the ongoing streak, to have some motivation to come back after I graduated. I would never consider a Rest+Sleep Talk set and if I wanted to use Milotic, I probably should replace Metagross with a ground type, but this wont happen. About the 510 wins: my team makes 100 wins per 3 hours. If you want, I can upload a 3 hours video sometime.
As for the battle in the vid, how was it poorly played? For my 1000th battle, I wanted every teammember to get 1 kill. Also, Bastiodon can have Sturdy Ability, making it risky to set up DD first because it still needs 2 rounds to finish Bastiodon then. Aerodactyl can inflict massive damage to Dragonite using Stone Edge if not OHKO it (dont remember), but there is also the chance for a OHKO critical hit. If I wanted to play much better, I would have taken the Stone Edge with Metagross and returned a Bullet Punch to finish it with priority. If Stone edge was a critical hit on Porygon2 and it would have gotten killed, I wouldnt mind that too much because Porygon2 is the least reliable member of my team and I had the possibility for the revenge kill in return, making it a 2v1 battle which is an easy win.
1. People told you at first that your team would be better if it was bulkier and had better ways of dealing with status/OHKO moves (Porygon2 isn't actually a very good way of dealing with this) and pointed to higher streaks as an example, which you objected to at first. They're not the ones who needed convincing.
2. Nobody else is interested in when your streak ends as it's pretty clear for anyone with experience playing in the Maison to tell that between your team construction and how you battle your streak has ended (and been magically resurrected through save editing) several times before. I'm sure there's some German Pokemon website where they don't know any better and you could convince them, but I'm being very straightforward when I say you're only deluding yourself here.
Also, don't be patronizing to me and make me tell you how to play when you're clearly just BSing and don't even know how to do a damage calculation to see that Aerodactyl (the only one you face past battle 50) has a Choice Band.
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To 1.: They did without making concrete suggestions, but not directly in that way. It was more about trying to get immune to hax, which seems impossible to me. Porygon2 seems to be an excellent choice for me because it is tanky and can still deal with many things in the maison. Thanks to Bo552 who got me thinking I should replace Cloyster since, say, a hit by Flamethrower that caused a burn on Cloyster while it sets up a Shell Smash would result in a unlucky 2v3. Thats something that has never happened to me. Even though Im not sure that it was that what he or she meant by writing "One burn and you're fucked". Also, those people who told me something didnt make it past, say, 200 wins, did they?
To 2.: So first you claimed my pokemons were cheated, then it was about not having convinced any people and then (Im not sure if I got that right) you wrote getting 510 wins in less than a week is an achievement that would be impossible. Next, youre claiming now I would have used some kind of save editing, which I did not. The way I battle results in like 90% fast and easy wins and like 10% battles where I have to think for a moment before making choices. I might be wrong about Aerodactyl here but I vaguely remember an Aerodactyl that was not locked into Stone Edge, of course somewhere in the 100s. Ive also never used a damage calculator in my life, but learning from experience may build up strong prediction. Ive lost Dragonite quite some times against their lead (critical hits, flinches, just to name a few), but in the end it did not matter because Metagross and Cloyster were too strong. Of course I dont make same mistakes twice. It seems not to matter if I even uploaded a video about 100 consecutive wins, which would be far more proof than anyone else in this thread has ever delivered. Is this leaderboard for some VIP exclusive smogon people only? Just asking because Im new here. I mean, I was initially never interested in getting on the leaderboard, but now I am, since it seems to be the only way to prove that it is not necessary to play stallish for a high streak. And I have a feeling, that youre one of them.
Ye there's no arguing with the fact that Fire Punch is not a main sweeping tool, if you're running it it's for a few very specific targets. Ferrothorn and Scizor, among others. If the rest of your team has those covered properly then fair enough, but Metagross, /especially/ your set, absolutely hates them, Porygon2 is not a fan to say the least, and Cloyster is hardly the most consistent answer either. Your posts already identify Ferrothorn (which I'd like to hear how your team takes on period actually) as a big threat--why is easily the most accessible way of dealing with it being dismissed with nothing more than "too weak"?
Granted you still don't "need" to run Fire Punch, I'd personally still run Roost over it any day, but what I'm getting at, given the rest of your team composition and what Fire Punch actually can do for it, it deserves a lot more than being dismissed with a half-sentence. Anyone able to build a 1000-win team should be able to identify Fire Punch's potential purpose here, and the fact that you haven't shown yourself capable of this is a big (and very easy) opportunity wasted.
I'm confused that you mention some of these foes only when covering Porygon2 ngl. Metagross absolutely hates Swampert and Quagsire (don't forget Gastrodon either) too--by which I mean that if Swampert comes out when Dragonite is dead you'll likely just lose barring AI misplays, and even if Metagross/Porygon2 are still healthy the other two will leave you severely weakened for the last mon too if you're lucky.
How would you play your way out of these situations? You can't honestly tell me the possibility of one of these situations occurring has never even crossed your mind over 1000+ battles; these are the kind of foes that a Pokemon like Gliscor eats alive but your team doesn't have much fallback against at all, and they're bound to spiral out of control sooner or later.
Okay but that also means you still need to spend a turn Mega Evolving before you gain Mega Metagross's base Speed, and most relevant Intimidate users Metagross either should not be your main option to take on in the first place (e.g. Arcanine, Krookodile) or are utterly destroyed with or without the Intimidate drop (e.g. Gyarados, Granbull).
In fact, Greninja and (granted non-Scarf) Terrakion, among many others, are very threatening Pokemon that come to mind that likely have been sent out as followup against your Metagross at least once on your 1000+ battles but that Mega Metagross simply outspeeds and OHKOes. Having held off on Mega Evolving in these situations accomplishes nothing other than taking a ton of damage or even losing Metagross for no reason. "Preserving Clear Body" really doesn't make sense.
I mean maybe, but they still have spent a lot of time following people that did make it through 1000 battles and shared a lot of their experiences on the way there, they very much know what they're talking about. Not to mention that you made this comment in reply to a guy that broke (at least) 2,3k wins in here and 4k wins in the Tree.
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People aren't giving you pushback because this thread is a "Smogon circlejerk"; when we see someone posting a 1000+ win streak we expect that post to be accompanied by their stories of how they "broke" the Maison, how they managed to actually understand the AI and account for everything it could throw at them. What we do not expect is someone adamantly claiming that "the best defense against hax is hit quick and hit hard" when all of us either directly or indirectly have thousands of battles of experience telling us that this is entirely untrue, or someone claiming 1000 wins with a team that clearly has gaping holes in it while showing limited understanding of the Maison at best. I'm very willing to believe your team can make 100 wins if played properly, 200 wins probably too, even 400 I might buy with a lot of luck, but claims that you never lost on the way or never ran a damage calc or looked up a moveset aren't helping your credibility at all. I really admire your confidence if you're happy playing entirely by intuition when backed into a corner at 500+ wins in a situation you haven't been in before.
Also, I'm sorta paraphrasing a prior post itt here (by GG Unit I think actually) but it's relevant enough to point out again: this thread means a lot to people posting here because it's, by far, the best repository of Maison teams and Maison knowledge available on the internet. People are drawn to these threads in order to find teams, good teams, to help them clear the battle facilities and just see how far people could go, and the least we can do for them is make sure the records going in the OP are legit.
Thank you very much for your detailed feedback.
I think I really should run a fire move for Ferrothorn, but Id rather go with HP Fire on Porygon2 than replacing Extreme Speed since I can make good use of it at times and it addresses more things than Firepunch would. Or if that wouldnt work out, Id search for a better third teammember that can cover this too. Ive faced maybe 10 Ferrothorns so far at most, and none of them as a lead. So a lead Ferrothorn, especially a Curse lead, could actually be extremely bad for my team if the AI doesnt play like a retard. My boosted Dragonite took them down or damaged them heavily so I finished them off with Porygon2. But youre right, neither Metagross nor Porygon2 would be able to deal with a full hp Ferrothorn except if I got very lucky having freeze or paralysis on it and getting many free turns. Back then when I had Cloyster, Id just SS once and destroy it with Icicle Spear while it would waste turns on Cursing.
Ive mentioned that Metagross cant deal with ground types in general, but it can deal a bunch of damage before it dies if I decided its best to stay in. Mega Metagross never got OHKOed by Earthquake so far, but by Dark Pulse, Flare Blitz and Overheat. General ground types get killed by Ice Beam. Those water+ground types make my life harder, but most of them get killed by a boosted Outrage immediately. Unless their lead makes it very easy to set up on it and sweep, I switch Dragonite out, so I can deal with Swamperts later. Ive never run into the situation that Dragonite was dead and I had to face a full hp Swampert, and Id rather not prefer to add a grass type move for a case which doesnt seem to happen. If Dragonite was dead and Swampert came out, Id probably lose. But I would blame it on misplay then since I let Dragonite die. But thinking of it, the only situation I might let Dragonite die is when facing lead Walrein. I guess Im lost if Walrein and Swampert would occur in the same team, but Im not sure that this a valid combination for the maison teams.
See, every day you learn something new. I used to play with Clear Body because I thought it gets the stat boosts the same turn I click on Mega. The funny thing about Gyarados is that the AI plays like a retard and seems to go for at least 1 Dragon Dance no matter what and gets hit by Thunder Punch in return. Didnt happen that I preserved its Mega and Greninja or Terrakion came out. I wont preserve Clear Body from now on.
But this is the way it has worked out for me. I probably wouldnt be at 1000 wins now if I ever faced a Curse lead Ferrothorn that also walled my DDs using Curse and crushed my team, but what is the probability for that anyway? This "the best defense against hax is hit quick and hit hard" is almost my playstyle, with a small extension: "the best defense against hax is hit quick and hit hard and be bulky enough to not die in return", which means I wouldnt consider many offensive options that have base defensive stats even around 80. Many threats to my team already become no threat after 1 DD and rarely I even boost to +6. There arent really many things that the AI can throw at me once Ive set up DD. I hate OHKO moves, critical hits, flinch hax and unfair quickclaw momentums at the most, but theres not much that can be done against that, not even when having a defensive team. Playing completely defensive takes many turns to fully set up and offers the maison more turns to put hax on you before youve set up than just going for the kill, which is usually a OHKO or 2HKO. The beauty of this strategy lies in the battles when I cant just setup and sweep their team but have to find ways around their threats. And it isnt that simple to just use DD on turn 1 in general and go for it because it depends. Sturdy and Sash users might be able to take out Dragonite because of the wasted DD turn. There are a few edge cases left that I should cover as well. 400 wins would be nothing for this team as at least one of my teammember could win 1v3 in maybe 80-90% of all battles. Im not scared not using a damage calc and my intuition has rarely failed me, not being a KO when I expected it was or being a KO when I expected it wasnt. Just because of a few hp left that can make all the difference. Honestly it feels that the maison in gen vi is one of the easiest places from all gens. Its easy for me to make decisions in new situations because I will always consider the effectiveness of my moves that I could use and go with my best option, also considering type resistances and a few other things if I got multiple options. For example, against Suicune Id always switch to Metagross instead of Porygon2 because Calm Mind Suicune might be able to survive Porygon2.
But since I want to improve my team, I ask you for advice. Sure, if I asked you what the strongest team would be in your opinion, Im certain the answer would be Mega Gyarados, Aegislash and Gliscor. I can see why, your team has a ton of resistances that support each other, as well as Intimidate, DD, staying power, stallish power if it comes to the worst and some more. But Id still rather go with a team that can pull off fast wins while doing pretty good overall. For that, Dragonite seems to be a fine choice. To add important resistances, steel types make the most sense to me. Thats why I chose Mega Metagross, but I could also replace it with Aegislash. I hate psychic type pretty much anyway and that wouldnt be a bad choice as it would grant me the Mega slot for my third monster, which could make a huge difference to my current team. But if I decided to keep Mega Metagross, I would need someone bulky, being an offensive special attacker, having a fire type move, having an ice type move, having another good coverage move and not having ice, water, rock, fairy, fire or ground weakness (I dont care about ghost and dark type users since they dont seem to be a threat at all). And I think that Im running out of options here because I couldnt find anything better than Porygon2 for this job (even though it has no fire type move yet).
The leaderboard is already a moot point because it's hacked Pokemon on a ROM. I was just pointing out the obvious, that with no possibility of being on the leaderboard and no credibility from anyone in the thread, it's better to just stop while ahead. As you mentioned, it at least had the slightest shred of believability when it was a hyper offense team with just 400 or so; the battles would be fast enough that someone who knew exactly what they were doing could probably get a lucky run somewhere around that long given enough attempts, and even though "I don't look at movesets" is a gigantic red flag (on the Fake Streak Bingo card for a reason!) the alleged experience in other battle facilities that are definitely more difficult than the Maison and have a decent amount of overlap regarding sets at least gave some reason to wait for further explanation. Of course, every post since then was a classic example of "better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."
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