Announcement 1v1 Suspect #3 - Togekiss

[Ginger Princess]

The third 1v1 suspect will be Togekiss! Much like its flinch-haxing comrade Jirachi, Togekiss has had its viability shoot up compared to how it once was in Gen 7, putting its Serene Grace + Air Slash combo on the forefront of the metagame. This is due to a multitude of factors; for one, the lack of power creep compared to previous generations has allowed Togekiss' overall base stats, specifically its above-average bulk, to be put to great use in outlasting Pokemon that are able to break through its flinches. The relative lack of fast offensive threats also allows Togekiss to drop Choice Scarf and experiment with other successful sets, particular stall with Maranga Berry and numerous super effective berries (most notably Wacan Berry). Maranga Berry in particular, when run with Thunder Wave, allows for Togekiss to tack on full paralysis alongside flinching, making it even more reliable in shutting down opponents, while the boost in Special Defense makes it even harder to knock out on the occasion that a Pokemon does break through Togekiss' paraflinching. Physically offensive threats who don't need to worry about the boost from Maranga Berry also have to contend with a weakness to Air Slash or the possibility of being blown back by Counter from a super effective berry set.

Togekiss, especially in the tournament scene, has proven to be difficult to build for reliably. While there's undoubtedly a layer of luck involved with most Togekiss wins, the strength of Togekiss' sets arguably creates a stale and stagnant metagame when trying successfully build to always beat all Togekiss sets. Often a player must choose to either run predictable but safe strategies to beat Togekiss reliably, or unpredictable and potentially punishing strategies to beat what beats Togekiss reliably.

The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 75.0 with at least 50 games played. For this suspect test, we will be using the regular 1v1 ladder, so you must create a new account that begins with 1VTG to qualify. Togekiss will be legal on the ladder. The suspect will end on September 30th, 11:59 PM EST. Togekiss will require a vote of 60% Ban to be banned from SS 1v1.
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GXE ≥ 75.0
Battle count ≥ 50

You must use a fresh account registered after the posting of this thread for your reqs. This alt must begin with 1VTG, e.g. 1VTG RPS

If you have achieved the voting requirements, CLICK HERE.

When posting in this thread, please keep in mind these rules:
1. No one liners or uninformed posts
2. No discussion on other potential suspects or the suspect process
3. Be respectful

Your post will be deleted and possibly infracted if you fail to follow them. Have fun!

 

[pazza]

I recently got suspect reqs for Togekiss and I will be voting ban. Although DLC2 is right around the corner, meaning we will just unban Togekiss once DLC2 released, I still urge you all to try to get reqs. Why? DLC2 won't be coming until two and half months from now which is a long time frame so you'll see it on ladder flinching you to death and if we don't ban it now then the biggest tour, 1v1 Championship, that's locked to pre-dlc will still include Togekiss which is just an uncompetitive mon and most players won't like to see it in a high-level tournament.

I believe Togekiss should be banned since it's ability is just inherently uncompetitive, good movepool, great typing, impressive stats, incredible versatility, compresses building very hard and is a nightmare on preview. It runs endless types of items such as Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, Maranga Berry, and then the endless damage reducing berries which it can use to cteam and defeat its counter's such as Wacan Berry, Yache Berry, and even the lesser-used ones like Babiri Berry, Charti Berry, and Kebia Berry.

Laddering is tough, it took me tons of tries to get reqs but, you just need to keep on going and try not to tilt. Always switch up teams and if you see someone getting 3-0ed by an uncommon mon like Scyther or Scizor then bring it. Ladder is all about sniping/cteaming people and not trying to get cteamed or sniped yourself, switch up your teams every so often. I'll drop some teams at the bottom of this post for people to use. (I didn't build most of them, just used them.)

https://pokepast.es/20513076dd246542 Scarf Togekiss team w/ Copperjah.
https://pokepast.es/f2b198cd42419a99 Dragapult, AV Rhyperior, Specs Pz.
https://pokepast.es/7af250550c7806d7 Corsola-G, Sylveon, Scarf Chand.
https://pokepast.es/bdb7039a8ef9bff9 CB Crustle, Togekiss, Rillaboom
https://pokepast.es/0c610d1b56cd8fdd Togekiss, Rotom-Mow, Rhyperior.
https://pokepast.es/ae14d60f9ff1cd1f

 

[Derpelo]

Togekiss ban is pog,my shrooms are viable again:D

Ok so in all seriousness I may not be the best 1v1 player, but ngl I dunno if I actually want to ban togekiss. Thunder wave togekiss is probably the most annoying set I've run into,but togekiss is pretty mild. Want to stop the flinches? Inner Focus. Want to run a mon that stops the flinches but you want something that doesnt die to dazzling Gleam, aura sphere, or any fire variant? Wait I actually dont know this dammit uh though luck. I'm mostly going to want to ban the flying fetus, But just run scarfed Durant. Anyway togekiss isnt stall level annoying, but can still 3-0 24/7.

 

[zioziotrip]

Alright so I don't have a huge amount to add, I've already made essentially 3 posts on the demon, however, my boy pazza wanted me to spark some discussion and I wanted to ramble a lil' more about how Toge makes building more difficult/less feasible to produce creative or good teams.

SS building is a mess. If you've actively built the tier this is no secret. While it's not easy to pin down what exactly causes this issue, through personal experience of building for both tour and ladder in addition to discussing SS w/ fellow players I think I have some understanding of why SS is in such poor shape.

1. SS has an atrocious mon pool. Many types lack great mons which becomes an issue when another type is oversaturated w/ good mons, case in point the lack of great steels allowing the excellent fairies to basically free roam. This is hardly a 1v1 exclusive issue (SS OU has the same lack of steels/poisons enabling menaces like Clef) but it's really apparent when building that certain types don't have great options. Sidenote, Toge really appreciates the fact that all the Ices, Steels, Poisons, and Electrics are restricted by their environment and inherent weaknesses. Not to say they are bad but I would say it is def much harder to fit Darm-G, Zone, Salazzle, or Zera than it is to fit Urshi, Prim, or Rilla. Typing isn't everything, however, when you are trying to break 85/95/115 bulk that has a 57% chance to flinch you w/ each attack you're gonna want to be doing double or you'll have to risk flinches.
2. There are 4/5 top mons w/o a significant amount of overlapping counters. Toge, Urshi, PZ, Rilla, and Prim but I think Prim is p easy to passively check especially considering every team should already have a fairy check. I think where this issue is most evident is the rise of AV mons. Having a dedicated PZ check can be costly when also accounting for Rilla/Urshi since there is v little overlap, this is where AV spam comes in. AV Kyurem, AV Haxorous, AV Urshi, AV Arcanine, AV Lax, AV Prim, etc. If a mon has a semi-free moveslot it'll run AV. This is not to call PZ broken or unhealthy, but who knows down the line I'll look at it deeper I haven't put enough thought into it as of now. As of right now, I think the AV influx was a short-sighted easy solution to PZ, PZ has plenty of solid counters such as Rhyperior, Crustle, Haxorous, Zera, Rilla, Sawk, etc. Of course nothing is certain in mons but generally building around PZ is p easy if you understand the possibility of Eerie Impulse, Bulkier Choice, and NP. Sidenote, AV mons are super easily exploited by Toge. When these mons cannot set up/recover/status against Toge they are super susceptible to being worn down by Air Slash w/ Roost spam fishing for Paras and Toge boosting w/ Amnesia/NP or Counter smashing physical AV mons. Generally, Toge is super annoying when you have to account for everything else that defines the meta and itself. Toge beats fires and makes the good poisons scared of a coinflip making them enabling Rilla. Toge smashes other fairies and other flyings have horrible odds vs it enabling Urshi. Luckily, beating PZ and Toge at the same time is p feasible w/ some mons such as Rhyperior, Zera, and (AV) Kyurem. The meta rn is super “broken check broken” which is just not fun or healthy. You get such similar looking teams because of this which to me is a bad omen.

I believe Toge is a massive hassle in the builder and Toge beating the other 3/4 doesn’t allow us to make a proper assessment of what else may pose an issue as Toge is just so easy to slap on teams and not worry about the other huge threats. I think Urshi, PZ, and Rilla could all be unhealthy in some capacity at some point in the future, I’ll continue to keep up to date w/ the meta so I can make a good call tho. To be blunt, SS rn is not super enjoyable. I think the Toge ban and DLC 2 will improve the tier I want to leave w/ the sediment of “stay vigilant.” Imho, it took a long ass time after DLC 2 for any action to be taken but shit seems to be improving in that department. Hope you learned smth from the post, have a nice day folks.

PS

While I do plan on making a guide on teambuilding at some point I feel as of now it would be a huge time sink for how quickly it would become outdated, but we’ll see.

 

[Mr. Mime fan]

Ok
reqs complain essay
I might get infracted for this and this message might be deleted but, this is my opinion and i believe this voting requirements suck.
So we all know reqs exist, and the requirements were... stupid to say the least in my opinion. So hear me out, The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 75.0 with at least 50 games played. While i first saw this I was like, easiest thing of my life, give me an hour and i’ll finish, and yeah i think i easily have the skill to do that, (not to brag but basically yes). So why didn‘t i achieve, or ”get” as people say, reqs?

Now this is where the stupid part is out, LUCK. So we know 1v1 ladder is especially common to get haxed . And you can be prone to getting unfair losses, while 50 games seems like a dealable amount, you have to consider this is less of a skill based requirements then luck. If it was skill based imo i would have it and some wouldn’t. 1v1 ladder 50 games is not a skill based study, especially when you have bad luck. Now let’s look at the evidence (me.) My first succesful alt- so we start with a 17-0 start, basically really hard to not get reqs with that start, then i lose 1 then win a few more. 21-1, pretty nice, if i keep up something like this and get some losses later, i still will be able to get them. So i miss draco meteor then get crit. Then i tilt, but reqs are still in my favour, because only a few losses happened. i continue grinding until let’s say 55-60 games with a winstreak then 1 loss pattern which actually makes you lose a lot of gxe, one time i build up a winstreak then get to 74.7% gxe, not too many games so 1 win at that situation get’s me reqs, I face Bob random numbers, I bring a fwg with heattom and boom he brings aegi shifu water and zeraora, my rillaboom was grassy seed leech seed, therefore it’s a 3-0, i’m damn relieved and i celebrate my reqs, I send in my Rillaboom, Bob sends in his Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, my wood hammer killls( bringing wood hammer over drum beating at the time for ladder mus, and calced the wood hammer ohko, he reveals ice punch, which does about 22% to me, and then the freeze, the. Freeze. I was actually ok when i saw the freeze as he needed 4 turns, which is highly unlikely. But, Bob got it, My preparation was superior, my play was superior, and I lost, right when i needed it. Later i built up another win streak and became 74.something and guess what, faced the Bob guy once more, he picked Zera into my same Rillaboom, he put blaze kick in an attempt to beat mine but i still basically won, he needed a blaze kick crit when i’m low to win, i win in about 4-6 turns if that gives you an idea, and right on the last turn when i kill, he crit. He. Crit. Both times when i’m about to beat him.
Ok then i tilted cos this reqs, game and 1v1 ladder sucks cos of luck.
That account after both incidents ended up at 69 gxe, which basically means i need to win 20 matches maybe at that many matches played to get back, it was over. Yesterday was the last day for reqs so i tried to grind once again cos i knew if i didn’t get haxed I could easily do it. Well i went the distance destroying the ladder on dead hours just until. Flinch until crit twice. And a miss, i tilted once again at at a time when it was right in my hands.
For people with bad luck who can outplay their opponent, reqs fucking suck.

Hehe lavos post pt 2

Note- Please don’t reply with this with L2P, i’ve had this enough

And on a more serious note, please try to fix, it’s my humble request, this is a luck based requirements and not skill based at all, trust me
people with good luck ban togekiss