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Battle Maison Discussion & Records
- Thread starter NoCheese
- Start date
First post ever!
My streak of 105 came to an end today. This was my second attempt ever at the Battle Maison with almost no prior knowledge, so I am very happy with the result :) unfortunately the battle I lost in is quite painful to watch, as it easily could've been avoided had I known the movesets.
The Battle Code is:
EDVG-WWWW-WW5L-Z8JD
And my team was:
Dracarys the Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/252 Spd/4 HP
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Pulse
- Roost
- Solar Beam
Drogon the Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Fire Fang
Luna the Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 Def/252 HP/4 SDef
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight
- Toxic
- Protect
Charizard pretty much destroyed anything that didn't resist it. Drought synergized well with Cresselia's Moonlight and Garchomp's Fire Fang. I found a lot of Rock-types were sent out, and I could wall them with Garchomp or Cresselia. Choice Scarf proved to be extremely useful on Garchomp, though it did contribute to my streak ending unfortunately. Can you tell I like Game of Thrones with my nicknames?
My streak of 105 came to an end today. This was my second attempt ever at the Battle Maison with almost no prior knowledge, so I am very happy with the result :) unfortunately the battle I lost in is quite painful to watch, as it easily could've been avoided had I known the movesets.
The Battle Code is:
EDVG-WWWW-WW5L-Z8JD
And my team was:
Dracarys the Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/252 Spd/4 HP
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Pulse
- Roost
- Solar Beam
Drogon the Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Fire Fang
Luna the Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 Def/252 HP/4 SDef
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight
- Toxic
- Protect
Charizard pretty much destroyed anything that didn't resist it. Drought synergized well with Cresselia's Moonlight and Garchomp's Fire Fang. I found a lot of Rock-types were sent out, and I could wall them with Garchomp or Cresselia. Choice Scarf proved to be extremely useful on Garchomp, though it did contribute to my streak ending unfortunately. Can you tell I like Game of Thrones with my nicknames?
So, a while back I looked at this and found it fascinating:
- this team originally looked to me like "stick a bunch of good Pokes together, build them around Tailwind Moltres, and see what I can do." When I looked at it more closely, it morphed more into "stick some good Pokes together, make sure they all can facilitate EQ spam, and support them with Tailwind."
- it's got Moltres, my favorite of the Legendary Birds and the one who I have seen least represented in the battle facility leaderboards since I have gone back and looked through those threads
Early this year, I hit a pretty bad rut in the Battle Tree and was not producing anything of note for the sake of that thread or for myself. I felt then that I needed to step back and maybe dabble in older facilities to build my confidence back up. I also noticed at that time that, due to my constant work building my Imperfect Army, I was down to about 6800 BP or thereabouts in my Omega Ruby save. It was then that I was involved in a series of trades, and among the things I obtained was a battle-ready Moltres, something I have longed for a long, long time. Looking back through this thread, it hit me that I may have the pieces necessary to rebuild Doobzi's team, and push Moltres farther than ever before!
Unfortunately, I then realized that, in order to pull this off, I also needed Kamis or Dream Radar Therians who are worth a shit, and as it turns out, none of the ones in my possession had IVs of note--the only one with a worthwhile Nature was my original Jolly Landorus-T capture, and he was shuttled off to Sun to be Hyper Trained already. I wasn't taking the team or the idea all that seriously at that point and simply decided as half a joke that, "well, any old Electric and any old Ground can replace these two and still get it done." So, I went and scrounged up a couple of other guys to replace the Therians. Thus, the tribute to Doobzi's concept instead became some warped abomination of her concept that I might have seen in my dreams instead, after reading her writeup.
The bizarre result of all this is that, surprisingly, the team has managed to hold it together and beaten Doobzi's team at its own game. I now am holding an ongoing 267-win streak with my latest feature presentation...
GOYA'S DREAM
BM823 (Gengar) (M) (Lvl. 76) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
IVs: 31/0/1/31/31/31
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Protect
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Destiny Bond
My Imperfect Gengar4, adapted from Kanto Classic. Unlike Doobzi, I opted to kick Thunderbolt to the curb (figuring that two of my other pokes made the coverage redundant) and keep Destiny Bond. Reading the older facility threads and seeing the glory days of Sash D-Bond Gengar made me itching to try it and bring that template back to a tiny bit more prominence. Also, a lot of my peers--both on here and on the Tree thread--have made the argument that Sash sets have more overall pros than Mega sets that can fit on a wider variety of teams. As it turns out, because of its general fragility, typing, the less-than-perfect Def IVs, and the fact that not being Mega makes it lose some punch against even slightly bulky opponents, Destiny Bond comes in handy a whole hell of a lot. Protect comes right behind it second in terms of overall utility. With that said, it's still my fatest lead and good to soften something up for the other leads to land the killing blow when Tailwind Turn 1 is not an option. Plus, it still has enough offensive presence to KO a decent number of foes.
BM894 (Electivire) (M) (Lvl. 50) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/2-4/26-27/31
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
Imperfect Electivire4, stuck here to replace Thundurus-T, provide a physical presence to my lead lineup, and basically serve as a suicide lead of sorts. It has more offensive coverage than the Thundy-T set Doobzi runs, so its main job is to eliminate as much as possible and lure a Ground attack or two--the Shuca allows it to survive an appalling number of first hits--before biting it and giving my Ground-type a free switch-in. Problem is, because Moltres lures so much Rock and Electric coverage, and since Gengar is generally so much frailer, it often lives through a few turns and isn't quite up to its main task. Also, I have a fetish for elemental punchers dating all the way back to GSC and have always wanted to bring one to any measure of facilities success...especially one who dates all the way back to Sinnoh Frontier.
"Rati" (Moltres) (Lvl.100) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
IVs: 31/31/8/31/2/31
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Protect
- Tailwind
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
Originally meant to be a straight copy of the centerpiece of Doobzi's team, it became something slightly different when I realized that Timid would allow it to get Tailwind up against a few more foes and when I noticed that offense is not its primary job anyways. Because of its typing, and because of the types that some Trainers tend to build around, Moltres often ends up being the suicidal one on the team, getting Tailwind off and that's about it. Otherwise, it normally will spam Heat Wave for as long as it can, or snipe evasion-based foes (since it has slightly more of a chance against these than the rest of the team). It is also my first real test of using an HA Legendary for facility purposes, since I rarely hunt those down on my own. I sorely regret forgetting who traded me this, but I thank you wholeheartedly for it--I will never need to hunt down Static Zapdos or Snow Cloak Articuno thanks to you. This is glory enough. "Nicknamed" after the Phantasy Star Online Mag.
" Dokoutsui" (Diggersby) (M) (Lvl.60) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/5-6/31/31
Shiny: Yes
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Wild Charge
- Quick Attack
- Earthquake
- Return
The same person who traded me the Moltres may have also given me the Bunnelby that became this, my Landorus-T replacement. He actually has several roles on this team:
- optimally, replace the fallen ShucaVire at center and spam EQ with the other leads safely by its sides
- be the signature Gorund-type my previous Tailwind teams have never consistently possessed, a new wrinkle for how I typically approach the archetype
- acts as the main Tailwind abuser, as Adamant Diggersby is not particularly fleet-footed
- be a cool switch-in for Moltres in tricky situations, to absorb Rock and Electric attacks aimed at my setter
- be my main priority user, as backup Fake Out is fairly situational in use, and STAB Huge Power Quick Attack seems like the kind of fast, noticeable offense I typically only see with Iron Fist Mach Punch or Gale Wings Brave Bird
- my first Diggersby experience, he is a learning tool in some ways
- Diggersby was mentioned way back in a The Smog article about overuse of Assault Vest in Gen Vi meta, and how it was one of the victims of this fad. Not really sure as to which item to stick on this, and noting that AV allows him to stand toe-to-toe with some Ice-type opponents, I decided to go this route and pay tribute to that article. I would gladly join the "slap AV on any old thing" crowd--thanks for the idea, Molk !
- get Diggersby the highest it's ever been in any leaderboards up until now, it's basically Moltres' partner-in-crime in this regard
"Nicknamed" after the Onimusha 2: Samurai's Destiny weapon.
The other two team members are two of the Roslindale Condores/Quetzales, doing the same things they have always done within that team in the now-distant past, so not as much exposition on them incoming:
SamiClone (Greninja) (M) (Lvl.53) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk /252 Spe
IVs: 31/13/31/31/31/31
Naïve Nature (+Spe, -SDef)
- Grass Knot
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Mat Block
The major change made here was Scald-->Ice Beam, as I have been made curious as to the effectiveness of the "standard" Doubles/Triples/Multis set over time...which translates to, "I was peer pressured into thinking that going without Ice Beam for as long as I have is stupid".
WhatTheFuss (Kangaskhan) (F) (Lvl.50) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
IVs: 31/31/26-27/31/31/31
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Double-Edge
Power-Up Punch-->Drain Punch because she sometimes needs to absorb an EQ so that Diggersby can eliminate some threat(s) and this helps mitigate that to a degree. Also, she's often powerful enough for what she gets to target that the Attack boosts aren't needed.
I have been greatly enjoying the challenge of not having what amounts to an automatic Tailwind, and having to assess situations where Moltres can't quite get it off from the jump. I have also loved that this run is helping me become more fully acquainted with the Shift button, as Gengar/Diggersby get a hell of a lot of use out of it to facilitate some timely Fighting-into-Ghost action and more EQ spam. More importantly though, slowly moving forward with this team has helped me get out of my Tree funk, and since I started this I've gotten back to contributing to the Tree thread, as well as posting streaks I can be proud of. While this team isn't done yet, its mission has been accomplished! Will update on threats and with replays when I lose.
Last edited:
Reporting a completed streak of 512 wins in Omega Ruby Super Triples. Same team as the previous post, helping to take Diggersby and Moltres to previously unknown heights. With that said, what was achieved with CarlMcQ's 115-win Multis streak is a more impressive achievement for Diggersby due simply to how much more challenging Multis is to get anything done in. I will, however, claim full credit for taking the mighty Moltres to something memorable.
Now that I've had time to digest the streak and its lifespan, I can outline some of the things that were causing me problems throughout the run:
- Anything with the type advantage, or even coverage, against Moltres: kinda hard to be a Tailwind team when the Tailwind cannot even be set due to super-fast Rock or Electric coverage pinning Moltres down. This often required Electivire to try and take the offender down with its varied coverage while Moltres Protected. Gengar could often live without the Tailwind and could chip in with taking the offender down when possible, even if that meant getting brought down to Sash with the high amount of opposing coverage thrown at him. Because fast opposing Rock Slide threatened to sometimes force Moltres to Protect and Electivire to flinch, Diggersby had to eat some resisted or immune shots, which I really hated to do given how much it ended up contributing offensively to the team (when it got in safely, it often cleaned up the opposition pretty fast). Common threats in this regard were Terrakion, Archeops4, Thundurus, Manectric, Zebstrika, Donphan4, Aerodactyl4, Raichu4, Krookodile4, and Unburden Hawlucha4.
- Crobat4: while it very rarely used Taunt correctly or connected with Hypnosis, it could have caused more problems than it did because of how often it ended up within range of Moltres to wreak havoc upon my plan. Electivire could safely take it out to leave Moltres with some breathing room, but the amount of times Crobat4 was paired with a possible LightningRod, something fast enough to stop Electivire in its tracks, or an Intimidator--which could delay the Crobat-based death--made me pull what hair I have left on more than one occasion.
- Dragon Dancers: my best-ever facilities streaks being ended at the jaws of Kingdra2 and Feraligatr4 respectively, along with how many smaller streaks I've had ended over the years because of Dragon Dancers getting to even +1, has traumatized me to the point that I've made it a mission to seek and destroy any possible Dancers, as soon as they pop up on the field. Though most of them would be unable to stop Moltres from setting, there were times where I may have left my leads open to needless snuffing out because I was determined to get the Tailwind blowing and have that safety net out, or just snuff out the Dance before it heated up any. More of a psychological bogeyman I've created than an actual issue, it did get me playing more recklessly as times than I meant to.
- So yeah, Dokoutsui wasn't at max Happiness: I didn't notice this until two days before the streak ended (so, two days ago as of this writing). No, I don't know how the fuck I didn't notice it any sooner. I just saw on that morning that Return wasn't hitting as hard as I would have liked and was curious if I had actually done my due diligence in this regard, or if I have left Diggersby in the PC for too long without getting some air. Fortunately, Earthquake & Quick Attack put in so much work that I didn't really miss the lack of power in that regard at all.
Replays!
- Battle 74, vs. Haskell (Mismagius/Gengar/Gourgeist/Drifblim/Trevenant/Cofagrigus, Set 4) -- VEAG-WWWW-WW5N-9VJJ
My first-ever MonoGhost Triples opponent, I'm always super-happy to get the Monotype opposition going (I'm interested in the Monotype meta and hope that community gets around to enacting Doubles and Triples in the future so that I can jump in)
- Battle 206, vs. Azure (Shuckle4/Regirock2/Nidoqueen4/Barbaracle4/Magnezone4/Seismitoad4) -- 5KTW-WWWW-WW5N-9VJ2
My lattest encounter with one of my most fascinating opponents, Azure Regirock. Not much else of note here
- Battle 301, vs. Bunny (Florges2/Ferrothorn4/Latias3/Venusaur3/Shuckle1/Probopass4) -- 76VW-WWWW-WW5N-9VKX
My latest encounter with the Worst Battle Facility Set, Florges2. Not much else of note here
- Battle 359, vs. Alfie (Thundurus3/Moltres3/Virizion4/Raikou3/Latios4/Heatran3) -- C2RG-WWWW-WW5N-9VK8
The closest battle of the streak, this took some serious maneuvering and careful thinking on my part to survive what was always going to be a tough matchup. Pretty sure I made one mistake here in the latter half of the battle that nearly cost me, but was able to recover and eek it out
- Battle 507, vs. Rose (Yanmega/Crobat/Mandibuzz/Lickilicky/Exeggutor/Bastiodon, Set 4) -- 5W4G-WWWW-WW5N-9VKD
The AI interestingly starts off with a MonoFlying lead lineup...and very cleverly utilizes a powerful STAB Explosion/Wide Guard combo to put the hurt on me. Looking back, I should have treated this as a portent of things to come...
- Battle 513, vs. Kirill (Crobat/Rapidash/Tyranitar/Lickilicky/Leafeon/Ninetales, Set 4) -- 3B8W-WWWW-WW5N-9VKP
Usually, when Diggersby/Electivire were across the field from Lickilicky4, it opted to go after them with Earthquake/Power Whip rather than rely on its other attacks. As a result, I had been lulled into a false sense of security that I should have been woken up from when I went through the above-shared battle. I didn't heed the warning, and when it got a prime chance, the Sticky Bomb made me pay, leaving me in a pretty bad 1+1/10v2 situation I couldn't come back from
This is an amazing accomplishment for me, something that took me somewhat out of my comfort zones of priority Tailwind and Trick Room that I've been housed in for most of my Maison career, and one I hope inspires more people to keep the dream alive of getting lesser-heralded 'mons traveling up the leaderboards, whether here in Maison or in other battle facilities. This also has me interested in the team that beat me--a goodstuffs team of mishmash-y 'mons that combined good bulk with good speed, a slight preference towards a sun core, and the trump card of the Sticky Bomb (my nickname for Licky4). I probably won't use these exact, rather I would like to use the same species but customize the sets and see where that gets me, whether here, in Tree, or in Subway (this team could theoretically run in Gen IV Frontier, but the loss of HAs hampers its effectiveness greatly, and it would be a crime not to try MegaTar or Z-Stone Licky). It would be an effort to get Rapidash on a leaderboard more than anything else, and I may have at least one of the pieces necessary to do it...
Now that I've had time to digest the streak and its lifespan, I can outline some of the things that were causing me problems throughout the run:
- Anything with the type advantage, or even coverage, against Moltres: kinda hard to be a Tailwind team when the Tailwind cannot even be set due to super-fast Rock or Electric coverage pinning Moltres down. This often required Electivire to try and take the offender down with its varied coverage while Moltres Protected. Gengar could often live without the Tailwind and could chip in with taking the offender down when possible, even if that meant getting brought down to Sash with the high amount of opposing coverage thrown at him. Because fast opposing Rock Slide threatened to sometimes force Moltres to Protect and Electivire to flinch, Diggersby had to eat some resisted or immune shots, which I really hated to do given how much it ended up contributing offensively to the team (when it got in safely, it often cleaned up the opposition pretty fast). Common threats in this regard were Terrakion, Archeops4, Thundurus, Manectric, Zebstrika, Donphan4, Aerodactyl4, Raichu4, Krookodile4, and Unburden Hawlucha4.
- Crobat4: while it very rarely used Taunt correctly or connected with Hypnosis, it could have caused more problems than it did because of how often it ended up within range of Moltres to wreak havoc upon my plan. Electivire could safely take it out to leave Moltres with some breathing room, but the amount of times Crobat4 was paired with a possible LightningRod, something fast enough to stop Electivire in its tracks, or an Intimidator--which could delay the Crobat-based death--made me pull what hair I have left on more than one occasion.
- Dragon Dancers: my best-ever facilities streaks being ended at the jaws of Kingdra2 and Feraligatr4 respectively, along with how many smaller streaks I've had ended over the years because of Dragon Dancers getting to even +1, has traumatized me to the point that I've made it a mission to seek and destroy any possible Dancers, as soon as they pop up on the field. Though most of them would be unable to stop Moltres from setting, there were times where I may have left my leads open to needless snuffing out because I was determined to get the Tailwind blowing and have that safety net out, or just snuff out the Dance before it heated up any. More of a psychological bogeyman I've created than an actual issue, it did get me playing more recklessly as times than I meant to.
- So yeah, Dokoutsui wasn't at max Happiness: I didn't notice this until two days before the streak ended (so, two days ago as of this writing). No, I don't know how the fuck I didn't notice it any sooner. I just saw on that morning that Return wasn't hitting as hard as I would have liked and was curious if I had actually done my due diligence in this regard, or if I have left Diggersby in the PC for too long without getting some air. Fortunately, Earthquake & Quick Attack put in so much work that I didn't really miss the lack of power in that regard at all.
Replays!
- Battle 74, vs. Haskell (Mismagius/Gengar/Gourgeist/Drifblim/Trevenant/Cofagrigus, Set 4) -- VEAG-WWWW-WW5N-9VJJ
My first-ever MonoGhost Triples opponent, I'm always super-happy to get the Monotype opposition going (I'm interested in the Monotype meta and hope that community gets around to enacting Doubles and Triples in the future so that I can jump in)
- Battle 206, vs. Azure (Shuckle4/Regirock2/Nidoqueen4/Barbaracle4/Magnezone4/Seismitoad4) -- 5KTW-WWWW-WW5N-9VJ2
My lattest encounter with one of my most fascinating opponents, Azure Regirock. Not much else of note here
- Battle 301, vs. Bunny (Florges2/Ferrothorn4/Latias3/Venusaur3/Shuckle1/Probopass4) -- 76VW-WWWW-WW5N-9VKX
My latest encounter with the Worst Battle Facility Set, Florges2. Not much else of note here
- Battle 359, vs. Alfie (Thundurus3/Moltres3/Virizion4/Raikou3/Latios4/Heatran3) -- C2RG-WWWW-WW5N-9VK8
The closest battle of the streak, this took some serious maneuvering and careful thinking on my part to survive what was always going to be a tough matchup. Pretty sure I made one mistake here in the latter half of the battle that nearly cost me, but was able to recover and eek it out
- Battle 507, vs. Rose (Yanmega/Crobat/Mandibuzz/Lickilicky/Exeggutor/Bastiodon, Set 4) -- 5W4G-WWWW-WW5N-9VKD
The AI interestingly starts off with a MonoFlying lead lineup...and very cleverly utilizes a powerful STAB Explosion/Wide Guard combo to put the hurt on me. Looking back, I should have treated this as a portent of things to come...
- Battle 513, vs. Kirill (Crobat/Rapidash/Tyranitar/Lickilicky/Leafeon/Ninetales, Set 4) -- 3B8W-WWWW-WW5N-9VKP
Usually, when Diggersby/Electivire were across the field from Lickilicky4, it opted to go after them with Earthquake/Power Whip rather than rely on its other attacks. As a result, I had been lulled into a false sense of security that I should have been woken up from when I went through the above-shared battle. I didn't heed the warning, and when it got a prime chance, the Sticky Bomb made me pay, leaving me in a pretty bad 1+1/10v2 situation I couldn't come back from
This is an amazing accomplishment for me, something that took me somewhat out of my comfort zones of priority Tailwind and Trick Room that I've been housed in for most of my Maison career, and one I hope inspires more people to keep the dream alive of getting lesser-heralded 'mons traveling up the leaderboards, whether here in Maison or in other battle facilities. This also has me interested in the team that beat me--a goodstuffs team of mishmash-y 'mons that combined good bulk with good speed, a slight preference towards a sun core, and the trump card of the Sticky Bomb (my nickname for Licky4). I probably won't use these exact, rather I would like to use the same species but customize the sets and see where that gets me, whether here, in Tree, or in Subway (this team could theoretically run in Gen IV Frontier, but the loss of HAs hampers its effectiveness greatly, and it would be a crime not to try MegaTar or Z-Stone Licky). It would be an effort to get Rapidash on a leaderboard more than anything else, and I may have at least one of the pieces necessary to do it...
I'm back again from my lurk hole to post a 276 win streak in ORAS super rotation. Even though i couldn't top my previous record of 583 wins, i wanted to report this just to say i'm back on my super rotation attempts.
JM8W-WWWW-WW5N-SSXH
Rock types have always been the bane of my team, I never found a worthy substitute for Feraligatr that could tank said types well while fulfilling the requirements i mentioned in my first post (no 4x weaknesses, no shared weaknesses, access to significant boosting moves). Gigalith is a big threat because of Curse, and this one landed multiple crits that ruined my sweep attempt with Feraligatr. I should have tried to KO the enemy team using only Klefki and Sylveon, which is a slower but safer way to deal with foes like the ones i faced there instead of relying on my sweepers.
The team i used is basically the same, i just switched Substitute for Protect on Klefki because it's easier to pass a Wish when needed.
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Atk / 124 Spe -> possible changes: EVs: 236 HP / 132 Atk / 140 Spe (Outspeeds Toxicroak and its taunt)
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Substitute
Feraligatr @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 50
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spe -> possible changes: EVs: 196 HP / 188 Atk / 124 Spe (Outspeeds Scarf Rampardos at +1)
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Ice Punch
- Substitute
Klefki @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Protect
I've got one or two replays from the same streak, i might post them later.
JM8W-WWWW-WW5N-SSXH
Rock types have always been the bane of my team, I never found a worthy substitute for Feraligatr that could tank said types well while fulfilling the requirements i mentioned in my first post (no 4x weaknesses, no shared weaknesses, access to significant boosting moves). Gigalith is a big threat because of Curse, and this one landed multiple crits that ruined my sweep attempt with Feraligatr. I should have tried to KO the enemy team using only Klefki and Sylveon, which is a slower but safer way to deal with foes like the ones i faced there instead of relying on my sweepers.
The team i used is basically the same, i just switched Substitute for Protect on Klefki because it's easier to pass a Wish when needed.
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Atk / 124 Spe -> possible changes: EVs: 236 HP / 132 Atk / 140 Spe (Outspeeds Toxicroak and its taunt)
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Substitute
Feraligatr @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 50
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spe -> possible changes: EVs: 196 HP / 188 Atk / 124 Spe (Outspeeds Scarf Rampardos at +1)
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Ice Punch
- Substitute
Klefki @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Protect
I've got one or two replays from the same streak, i might post them later.
First post ever, still new to this
my streak of 198 wins came today to an end, my first run in oras-mainson
it was my fault, i was distracted and lost gliscor early on, and extrem-speed dragonite put an end to kanga and my team lost at battle No.199.
my lose was my own fault, nothing wrong with the team, i try to get even higher next time
i build my team on my own, no influence from this page (cause i saw a guy nearly my team, but i did not copy him)
gliscor handle fighting typs, but hates will-o on switch
he can win against everybody, if he has a sub (pp-stall with sub protect)
knock of is there to win against toxic & EQ immune pokemons
i had EQ the first ~100 battles, but never used it, thus i went with knock of
still i needed sth against water/ice-types, best way is a water-typ on my own, spAtk, so it can take will-o
game No.109(EQ might be helpfull, but i love knock of):
SDJG-WWWW-WW5Z-86PR
game No.170(why i love milotic with haze):
N9NW-WWWW-WW5Z-86PY
game No.199(the end):
NQQW-WWWW-WW5Z-8A92
team:
Kangaskhan-Mega @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Crunch
- Sucker Punch
- Power-Up Punch
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Level: 50
EVs: 204 HP / 4 Atk / 196 Def / 36 SpD / 68 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Protect
Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
Level: 50
EVs: 172 HP / 100 Def / 4 SpA / 196 SpD / 36 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Haze
- Toxic
- Recover
my streak of 198 wins came today to an end, my first run in oras-mainson
it was my fault, i was distracted and lost gliscor early on, and extrem-speed dragonite put an end to kanga and my team lost at battle No.199.
my lose was my own fault, nothing wrong with the team, i try to get even higher next time
i build my team on my own, no influence from this page (cause i saw a guy nearly my team, but i did not copy him)
gliscor handle fighting typs, but hates will-o on switch
he can win against everybody, if he has a sub (pp-stall with sub protect)
knock of is there to win against toxic & EQ immune pokemons
i had EQ the first ~100 battles, but never used it, thus i went with knock of
still i needed sth against water/ice-types, best way is a water-typ on my own, spAtk, so it can take will-o
game No.109(EQ might be helpfull, but i love knock of):
SDJG-WWWW-WW5Z-86PR
game No.170(why i love milotic with haze):
N9NW-WWWW-WW5Z-86PY
game No.199(the end):
NQQW-WWWW-WW5Z-8A92
team:
Kangaskhan-Mega @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Crunch
- Sucker Punch
- Power-Up Punch
in my eyes, kangaskhan is the best gen6 pokemon, that is why i though, he would be great in the mainson(+2 return OHKO most pokemons)
there is nothing more to say about kangaskhan
the first pokemon is there, cause you love it, but the other 2 pokemons have an explanation
but some problems with kanga:
fighting-typs and burn(every ghost-typ) and enemy set-up(like Hariyama expecting close combat and switch but he belly drums)
there is nothing more to say about kangaskhan
the first pokemon is there, cause you love it, but the other 2 pokemons have an explanation
but some problems with kanga:
fighting-typs and burn(every ghost-typ) and enemy set-up(like Hariyama expecting close combat and switch but he belly drums)
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Level: 50
EVs: 204 HP / 4 Atk / 196 Def / 36 SpD / 68 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Protect
gliscor handle fighting typs, but hates will-o on switch
he can win against everybody, if he has a sub (pp-stall with sub protect)
knock of is there to win against toxic & EQ immune pokemons
i had EQ the first ~100 battles, but never used it, thus i went with knock of
still i needed sth against water/ice-types, best way is a water-typ on my own, spAtk, so it can take will-o
EVs:
first i had full spDef gliscor an no speed, but:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 204 HP / 44 Def Gliscor: 160-189 (90.9 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 204 HP / 196+ Def Gliscor: 129-153 (73.2 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
i do survive and after protect, i outspeed with 68 EVs in Speed and allwasy get a sub
HP as much as possible, but still divided by 8 an Integer (best toxic recover)
Def was as much needed to surrvive tyrantrum but also hit the bump, which means without 10% nature, divided by 10 an Integer
Speed to outspeed tyrantrum
Atk dont need anything, just 4 EV left
SpDef the rest
he can win against everybody, if he has a sub (pp-stall with sub protect)
knock of is there to win against toxic & EQ immune pokemons
i had EQ the first ~100 battles, but never used it, thus i went with knock of
still i needed sth against water/ice-types, best way is a water-typ on my own, spAtk, so it can take will-o
EVs:
first i had full spDef gliscor an no speed, but:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 204 HP / 44 Def Gliscor: 160-189 (90.9 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 204 HP / 196+ Def Gliscor: 129-153 (73.2 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
i do survive and after protect, i outspeed with 68 EVs in Speed and allwasy get a sub
HP as much as possible, but still divided by 8 an Integer (best toxic recover)
Def was as much needed to surrvive tyrantrum but also hit the bump, which means without 10% nature, divided by 10 an Integer
Speed to outspeed tyrantrum
Atk dont need anything, just 4 EV left
SpDef the rest
Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
Level: 50
EVs: 172 HP / 100 Def / 4 SpA / 196 SpD / 36 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Haze
- Toxic
- Recover
milotic is there to cover gliscors water weakness and take the will-o
milotic even wants the will-o some times (marvel scale) to deal better with physical-water/ice types
haze for moves like bellydrum(hariyama4), swordsdance(Drapion4 toxic immune), dragondance(Gyarados4)
recover is the reason, why i wanted milotic, there is no better water-typ with recover-moves (in my eyes)
EVs:
HP as much as possible, but still divided by 16 an Integer (best leftover recover)
SpDef since i went with full Def gliscor, i need the special bulk, no calcs in mind, just with a burn Def ~= SpDef
just to hit the bump, which means without 10% nature, divided by 10 an Integer
Speed to outspeed pokemons with 105speed-stat (surprisingly many legends) : Articuno (1,2), Cresselia (1,2,3), Suicune (1,2,3)
SpAtk dont need anything, just 4 EV left
Def the rest and Def ~= SpDef
milotic even wants the will-o some times (marvel scale) to deal better with physical-water/ice types
haze for moves like bellydrum(hariyama4), swordsdance(Drapion4 toxic immune), dragondance(Gyarados4)
recover is the reason, why i wanted milotic, there is no better water-typ with recover-moves (in my eyes)
EVs:
HP as much as possible, but still divided by 16 an Integer (best leftover recover)
SpDef since i went with full Def gliscor, i need the special bulk, no calcs in mind, just with a burn Def ~= SpDef
just to hit the bump, which means without 10% nature, divided by 10 an Integer
Speed to outspeed pokemons with 105speed-stat (surprisingly many legends) : Articuno (1,2), Cresselia (1,2,3), Suicune (1,2,3)
SpAtk dont need anything, just 4 EV left
Def the rest and Def ~= SpDef
So I am currently building a team for the battle maison in ORAS, and I have a potential Suicune with the following stats:
Bold, 31 HP; 30–31/20–21 Physical; 30–31/8–9 Special; 6–7 Speed
Now I am wondering if I can take it as it is, since it has the right nature and 31 in 2 of its most important stats. Am I gonna get in big trouble with this or could I make up for the bad speed with Icy Wind?
Any advice or opinions are very much appreciated.
Bold, 31 HP; 30–31/20–21 Physical; 30–31/8–9 Special; 6–7 Speed
Now I am wondering if I can take it as it is, since it has the right nature and 31 in 2 of its most important stats. Am I gonna get in big trouble with this or could I make up for the bad speed with Icy Wind?
Any advice or opinions are very much appreciated.
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Icy Wind Cune needs all the speed it can get. The 31 Attack IV is also wasted. Try resetting for a 31/x/31/x/31/31 Cune instead. You can use Night Shade level 87 Iron Ball Deoxys-D with 209 speed to check the HP and Speed IVs (if deo's pressure goes first or night shade knocks cune into the yellow, reset), and a fainted sync in front to ensure the deo can lead.
Ok, I'll do that. Is special attack kinda negligible since you left it out with an x? or is there a certain range I should aim for?
Another thing that might only be my imagination, but could it be that legendaries in gen 6 have generally higher IVs? My Rayquaza has also 3 31 IVs. And now that suicune with 3 almost perfect stats.
Another thing that might only be my imagination, but could it be that legendaries in gen 6 have generally higher IVs? My Rayquaza has also 3 31 IVs. And now that suicune with 3 almost perfect stats.
Starting in gen 6 stationary Pokémon (obv inc. legends) automatically have 3 perfect IVs.
Wow, that makes things so much easier. On another topic though: I breed a scyther on my soulsilver-edition today and wanted to transfer it to ORAS to use Mega-Scizor as my 2nd Pokémon in the Battle Maison. It's stats are:
Adamant, 30 HP, 31 Attack, 25 Defense, 27 Special Attack, 27 Special Defense, 31 Speed
So now my question would be, should I use the EV-spread suggested by the Smogon Battle Maison-guide (204 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 44 Spe). Or should I use a different EV-spread to optimize its stats?
Secondly are Suicune and Mega-Scizor even good partners for the ORAS Battle Maison?
Adamant, 30 HP, 31 Attack, 25 Defense, 27 Special Attack, 27 Special Defense, 31 Speed
So now my question would be, should I use the EV-spread suggested by the Smogon Battle Maison-guide (204 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 44 Spe). Or should I use a different EV-spread to optimize its stats?
Secondly are Suicune and Mega-Scizor even good partners for the ORAS Battle Maison?
Posting an ongoing streak of 1000 wins in ORAS Triples.
Team Leer Returns
The team is built around Meowstic using Prankster Leer to boost physical damage.
Talonflame @ Choice Band ** U-Ship
Ability: Gale Wings
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SDef
-Brave Bird
-Flare Blitz
-U-Turn
-Protect
Meowstic @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 HP, 172 Def, 4 SDef, 76 Spe
-Leer
-Fake Out
-Sunny Day
-Quick Guard
Leer hits all three opponents from the center, putting them in KO range for allied moves.
Sawk @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sturdy
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Close Combat
-Knock Off
-Ice Punch
-Thunder Punch
Sawk is picked because of its ability, Sturdy, which functions as a free Focus Sash.
Gastrodon @ Assault Vest ** Gyges
Ability: Storm Drain
Nature: Quiet
IVs: 0 Spe
EVs: 164 HP, 108 Def, 220 SAtk, 12 SDef
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam
-Scald
-Clear Smog
Gastrodon covers the team's weaknesses and dominates under Trick Room, and is the team's sole special attacker.
Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 204 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def, 4 SDef, 44 Spe
-Bullet Punch
-Bug Bite
-Superpower
-Protect
Scizor adds another priority attack to take advantage of Leer and forms a Dragon/Water/Steel core for the backups.
Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Return
-Earthquake
-Dragon Dance
-Protect
Mega Salamence rounds out the line-up with a fourth physical sweeper to maximize Leer's potential and provides Intimidate support.Leer interacts in the following ways with various mechanics:
Leer can be used multiple times to stack Defense drops. With Focus Sash and decent bulk, Meowstic can usually use Leer several times in a battle; tough foes like Suicune or Cresselia are softened into KO range after several Leers, and at -2 or -3, resists also start dying. Leer nulls Defense boosts from Stockpile and Curse and weakens set-up sweepers until they are in KO range for a priority attack. Meowstic does not learn Taunt, but with Leer stacking, it can nearly always contribute and avoids being set-up bait. It can also use Leer while Scizor or Salamence bait with Protect, and Leer again on the next turn so that enemy is at -2 when the sweeper moves. Since the AI does not switch out, Leer's effect is permanent - even if Meowstic or its co-leads die, the enemies have been weakened for the back-ups to KO.
- Clear Body and Big Pecks stop Leer from working entirely.
- White Herb will block the stat drop, but an Intimidate switch-in could be used to clear White Herb before Leer hits. Using Leer multiple times also works.
- Contrary results in Leer increasing the target's Defense. Clear Smog can remove these boosts.
- Magic Bounce reflects Leer onto Pokémon that are adjacent to Espeon, but it will still hit the other two opponents normally.
- Quick Guard blocks Prankster Leer. The move is only used by Cobalion4, and it has used the move once in battle #440.
- Leer activates Competitive and Defiant. Bisharp4's Sucker Punch is blocked by Quick Guard, and it is not particularly threatening. Competitive Gothitelle and Competitive Milotic can be threatening; it's possible to scout for the ability on Gothitelle, as Frisk is announced and Shadow Tag prevents switching.
- Clear Smog removes Leer Defense drops. It's still worth using it on Lati@s1 and Evasion boosters, among others.
- Wide Guard does not block Leer, despite Leer hitting all opponents. As is usual for the AI, it uses Wide Guard even with none of the Pokémon on the field having moves that it might block.
Regirock, Landorus4, Latios2, Latias2, Regice, Mandibuzz4 and Metagross4 are the biggest threats that ignore Leer, and are generally the team's worst match-ups. Against these foes, spamming Leer is still useful to weaken the other two enemies.
Hilariously, Leer also increases the damage that the AI inflicts on its allies with Earthquake and Explosion. Against multiple EQ users, enemy Pokémon often KO each other with the Defense drops. In one battle, the AI's Garchomp4 scored five KOs with a single Earthquake, sweeping the whole field clean.
Sunny Day removes Hail and Sandstorm so that Sturdy and Focus Sash remain intact and Sand Veil/Snow Cloak/Sand Rush are deactivated. Prankster Quick Guard has +4 priority to Fake Out's +3, making it block the move entirely. It also blocks Extremespeed from sniping a weakened Talonflame and priority moves from KOing 1HP Sawk.
147 Speed outspeeds Talonflame by 1. At -1 after Icy Wind has hit both Talonflame and Meowstic, it is still one point faster.
Choice Band on Talonflame is generally an inferior item to Life Orb or Sharp Beak in the Maison. Scizor and Talonflame could even swap their items - but Talonflame needs the extra power of Choice Band to secure KOs after Leer. I initially ran Tailwind, but since the team has three Pokémon with priority moves, a Choice Scarf user, a Pokémon with 120 base Speed, and a Pokémon with base 39 Speed, I never used it and replaced it with U-Turn. Protect is useful in situations where Talonflame can draw in two attacks with Protect to create space before switching out.
A calc:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 140-165 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Sawk hits a great Speed tier with Choice Scarf. Sturdy enables it to survive and adds much-needed reliability to a double Choice lead that could backfire horribly. I think it's the best non-Mega option for the slot with Meowstic - Yoshi1777's team which I based this team on used Mega Kangaskhan in a similar spot, which might also work. Meowstic should be EV'd to outspeed Mega Kangaskhan in order to move before Sucker Punch hits if ran alongside it.
Gastrodon is EV'd for mixed bulk with Assault Vest, with an emphasis on Defense due to Gastrodon's lower base Defense and Assault Vest already boosting Special Defense.
In Doubles, Storm Drain stops the AI from using Water moves after its activation. In Triples, the AI's behavior depends on positioning - in short, if Gastrodon is on the left or the right and the enemy is in the center or the right, the AI behaves as if Storm Drain had never been activated. In the other cases, it behaves identically to Doubles and Water attacks stop being used. For details, see here.
Scizor replaces Aegislash from the previous version of the team. Scizor fits the team a lot better with a stronger priority attack and no EQ weakness.
Mega Salamence is the MVP of the team. It works unexpectedly well with Meowstic, and has massive comeback potential when things don't go well. Aerilate Return is equally powerful to Choice Band Brave Bird. Dragon Dance is rarely used with Leer already boosting physical attacks and its excellent 120 base Speed, but it enables sweeping in some situations.
Ideally, battles will start with Meowstic using either Leer or Fake Out while Talonflame and Sawk KO two enemies. Gastrodon is the common switch option for Talonflame - Sawk's typing isn't too great, and any of the three back-ups might replace it depending on the opposition. Meowstic typically stays in using Leer repeatedly until it dies, unless it gets Taunted. Against Sand Stream/Snow Warning leads, Meowstic clears the skies with Sunny Day; against opposing Fake Out users, Quick Guard is the go-to move.
Gastrodon and Scizor are the preferred switch options - Salamence is sometimes also switched in, but keeping it at full health gets the most out of its enormous Mega stats and it's vulnerable if brought in prior to Mega Evolution. If the leads fail, Gastrodon/Scizor/Salamence have a lot of bulk and can come back from a deficit, especially if the opponents have eaten a Leer.
Sturdy and Focus Sash are troublesome as they prevent securing OHKOs regardless of Leer. Bulky foes that survive an attack even after Leer aren't fun for the leads, though Leer stacking helps.
Calcing whether or not an attack will OHKO the enemy after Leer and moving accordingly is crucial to using the team, as missing KOs will typically result in losing Pokémon and there is no control aside from a single Fake Out user. Misplaying on Turn 1 is likely to result in disaster, as seen in some of the battle videos.Battle video: #1000 - 4YNW-WWWW-WWXV-HJ96 vs. Dewgong/Venusaur/Shiftry/Gogoat/Feraligatr/Nidoking
Proof video.
Battle video: #757 - STRW-WWWW-WWXS-A2MG vs. Kingdra/Lapras/Ludicolo/Floatzel/Weezing/Dewgong
Storm Drain test video against Beauty Lana/Claire.
Battle video: #612 - JBWW-WWWW-WWXV-HJB3 vs. Articuno/Landorus/Heatran/Regirock/Regice/Cresselia
The closest battle in the streak and the most exciting battle video of the bunch.
Battle video: #474 - VW8W-WWWW-WWXV-HJN2 vs. Metagross/Eelektross/Dragonite/Walrein/Rhyperior/Glaceon
A messy battle with bad MUs, questionable plays, and a Meteor Mash Attack boost.
Battle video: #320 - 85EW-WWWW-WWXV-HM5D vs. Gigalith/Hippowdon/Excadrill/Tyranitar/Gliscor/Garchomp
The obligatory Worker Rasmus battle. Features Sunny Day deactivating Sand Veil and Salamence easily surviving Outrage.
Over the past two months, I have very slowly manufactured a facsimile of this team and then taken it out for a spin, seeing if it's possible for me to replicate the success My Liege had with it. I was a bit lazy about the manufacturing, as Sawk/MegaMence/Scizor were PokeGen-ed right down to the nitty-gritty--thus making this leaderboard-ineligible at this time. However, I'm far more proud about the half of the team that is legit:
Talonflame (Lvl.64) (F) @ Choice Band ** Benedita
Ability: Gale Wings
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SDef
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
-Brave Bird
-Flare Blitz
-U-Turn
-Protect
My first 6IV Fletchling, probably my best work since the flawless Pyroar I've displayed before on this thread. Nicknamed after her father, more or less.
Meowstic (Lvl.100) (M) @ Focus Sash ** "TheLobe" (thanks to IGN 'Wouter')
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 HP, 170 Def, 4 SDef, 84 Spe
IVs: 31/21/31/31/31/31
-Leer
-Fake Out
-Sunny Day
-Quick Guard
As you can see, I fucked up the spread slightly, although the way I see it, any little extra boost to Spe to outrun other +1 attacks is welcome, and as pointed out to me by My Liege himself, once you have Leer thrown out once, you generally want him out of commission when possible to allow the physical backups to take advantage. "Nicknamed" after the Freakazoid villain.
Gastrodon-West (Lvl.50) (M) @ Assault Vest ** Gyges'Nephew
Ability: Storm Drain
Nature: Quiet
EVs: 164 HP, 108 Def, 220 SAtk, 12 SDef
IVs: 31/8-9/31/31/31/0
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam
-Scald
-Clear Smog
I personally prefer the precious East Sea form, but this is a terrific 'mon nonetheless, and arguably the lynchpin of the team, he has single-handedly saved my streak three of four times. Nicknamed in tribute to My Liege's Gastro.
Much like my previous Triples team, this isn't as mindless, "fire-and-forget" as most of My Liege teams, and there has been a learning curve with using it, due to most of the threats he has pointed out, minus Metagross4 (who is overall too passive to exploit this advantage and is often ignored until last); most of the things he has pointed as blockades have also been noted, especially the White Herbs (something I hadn't noticed until I started using this team is just common the item is) and except for Defiant kamis (Tornadus has no sets who can take advantage of it, and Thundurus3 has been stunningly rare so far). As a result, the best I have been able to manage so far is 452 wins, falling just this afternoon.
Battle 453, vs. Howell (Cobalion1/Registeel2/Thundurus2/Latias1/Regirock1/Tornadus2)--there was a pivotal moment in this where I should have taken advantage of a -6 Def Tornadus and wiped him with Close Combat; this would have given me a fighting chance in the ensuing 1v1 between Sawk and Regirock. Definitely a battle where I got too complacent and forgot that this team is not as mindless, "fire-and-forget" as most of My Liege's teams. WX9W-WWWW-WW5P-8LKU
This team deserves and needs better, so you can bet your ass I will be giving it another (ineligible) go.
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As I was browsing on the new stuff people came up with for the battle tree in SM, I saw a new idea by GG Unit using Durant & Drapion and having the 3rd pokémon as an emergency to fix things so everything works as intended instead of being a last resort. So I kinda did the same thing for ORAS battle maison.
My loss after 140 wins: N2SG-WWWW-WW5S-9BC4
Lead Umbreon4 which had Curse and for some reason I felt confident that I would get atleast a single crit after fully setting up Drapion but nope, 15 hits 0 crits. I should have just got rid of the Umbreon with Hydreigon since I'm running Knock off over Crunch.
The Team:
Durant @ Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 28 SpD / 228 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
- Entrainment
- Iron Head
- Aerial Ace
- Protect
Drapion @ Black Sludge
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
IVs: 31/31/31/-/31/31
- Acupressure
- Protect
- Substitute
- Knock Off
Hydreigon @ Red Card
Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
- Thunder Wave
- Roar
- Thief
- Taunt
Having Roar feels safe because you can get rid of other Roar users or mainly just to get rid of a threat.
Most games go normal, once Durant successfully uses Entrainment the game's in the pocket. Hydreigon is there to force the opponent pokémon to switch away because there are alot of cases where you can't just do the usual slow set up with Drapion/Durant.
So basically I switch to Hydreigon immediately whenever I see Threats:
- Explosion
- High Recoil; Head Smash / HJK
- Defense boost & Rest
- U-Turn / Volt Switch
- Roar / Whirlwind
or when Entrainment gets Protected by something that has high dmg and I don't wanna risk getting Durant hit by a crit.
For some reason I'm most of the time scared of switch into Hydreigon just because of how fragile and unstable that strategy is with Red Card cuz you never know what mysterious pokémon is waiting for you.
I would probably consider replacing Hydreigon with Aggron(sturdy) or Tyranitar since they both have access to the same moves and Aggron guarantees proc-ing Red Card cuz it doesn't work if the the Red Card holder dies 1-shot. Also if I'm sticking with Hydreigon, I noticed it could be better to have it Timid just so that Thief doesn't kill stuff by accident. Hydreigon doesn't mean to hurt people :(
My loss after 140 wins: N2SG-WWWW-WW5S-9BC4
Lead Umbreon4 which had Curse and for some reason I felt confident that I would get atleast a single crit after fully setting up Drapion but nope, 15 hits 0 crits. I should have just got rid of the Umbreon with Hydreigon since I'm running Knock off over Crunch.
The Team:
Durant @ Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 28 SpD / 228 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
- Entrainment
- Iron Head
- Aerial Ace
- Protect
Drapion @ Black Sludge
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
IVs: 31/31/31/-/31/31
- Acupressure
- Protect
- Substitute
- Knock Off
Hydreigon @ Red Card
Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
- Thunder Wave
- Roar
- Thief
- Taunt
Having Roar feels safe because you can get rid of other Roar users or mainly just to get rid of a threat.
Most games go normal, once Durant successfully uses Entrainment the game's in the pocket. Hydreigon is there to force the opponent pokémon to switch away because there are alot of cases where you can't just do the usual slow set up with Drapion/Durant.
So basically I switch to Hydreigon immediately whenever I see Threats:
- Explosion
- High Recoil; Head Smash / HJK
- Defense boost & Rest
- U-Turn / Volt Switch
- Roar / Whirlwind
or when Entrainment gets Protected by something that has high dmg and I don't wanna risk getting Durant hit by a crit.
For some reason I'm most of the time scared of switch into Hydreigon just because of how fragile and unstable that strategy is with Red Card cuz you never know what mysterious pokémon is waiting for you.
I would probably consider replacing Hydreigon with Aggron(sturdy) or Tyranitar since they both have access to the same moves and Aggron guarantees proc-ing Red Card cuz it doesn't work if the the Red Card holder dies 1-shot. Also if I'm sticking with Hydreigon, I noticed it could be better to have it Timid just so that Thief doesn't kill stuff by accident. Hydreigon doesn't mean to hurt people :(
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That right there is the main problem. You should have everything PP maxed on the sweeper, and then it would be no problem for Drapion to just switch in on any Umbreon and set up alongside it while PP stalling its attacks (or at the very least you'd have 9 extra chances to get a crit with Knock Off). Curse/Rest users won't use Rest at full health and won't use Curse when they're at +6, so if you just hold off on attacking you can stall out their attacking moves pretty easily and then just get rid of them. Of course you could also run Glalie instead of Drapion and break through defensive stat boosters with Frost Breath - that would be the better sweeper with Red Card support and probably about as unbeatable as it is in the Battle Tree.
I've also thought of going back to my Omega Ruby and trying the Red Card strategy, but alas the cartridge no longer works in my 3DS so I didn't theorymon too much on who could be the best Red Card user. Prankster Sableye doesn't need any Speed investment to do its job, is immune to High Jump Kick, and can't be trapped by Lapras or Mismagius. There might be a bulky Psychic like Cresselia or Uxie with enough support moves + Rest to PP stall certain things Durant can't directly switch back into.
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To clarify how I lost exactly:
I fully set up Drapion with 9 pps left on Acupressure and I start hitting fully Cursed Umbreon with Knock off until I had 5 pps left on Knock off where I decided to swap to Hydreigon to roar/red card the Umbreon and start setting up on something new that doesn't boost defense. Garchom comes in which is fine cuz Durant can outspeeds all Garchomps and he does land Entrainment before fainting. I manage to have Drapion use the left of 9 Acupressures and set up a Substitute but the rest of Knock offs weren't enough to 1 shot even Umbreon again with +0 defense.
I still have no clue what's the best way to get pp ups in this game except for the pokemiles shop and lottery, but that doesn't mean I should be lazy to farm pp ups. I'll boost up the pps and even try Glalie as sweaper.. Initially, I was planning to have Mismagius @ Red Card since it's also immune to HJK, but it doesn't have access to roar (instead Memento though), and I felt roar solves alot of problems cuz Red Card works 1 time. I also had an idea of using Skarmory @ Red Card since it has Sturdy and Roar/Taunt/Flash. Thanks for the response on this, and I'm glad this team is working here too (sort of) and I'm pretty sure someone experienced like you would pilot/optimize it better than I do.
I fully set up Drapion with 9 pps left on Acupressure and I start hitting fully Cursed Umbreon with Knock off until I had 5 pps left on Knock off where I decided to swap to Hydreigon to roar/red card the Umbreon and start setting up on something new that doesn't boost defense. Garchom comes in which is fine cuz Durant can outspeeds all Garchomps and he does land Entrainment before fainting. I manage to have Drapion use the left of 9 Acupressures and set up a Substitute but the rest of Knock offs weren't enough to 1 shot even Umbreon again with +0 defense.
I still have no clue what's the best way to get pp ups in this game except for the pokemiles shop and lottery, but that doesn't mean I should be lazy to farm pp ups. I'll boost up the pps and even try Glalie as sweaper.. Initially, I was planning to have Mismagius @ Red Card since it's also immune to HJK, but it doesn't have access to roar (instead Memento though), and I felt roar solves alot of problems cuz Red Card works 1 time. I also had an idea of using Skarmory @ Red Card since it has Sturdy and Roar/Taunt/Flash. Thanks for the response on this, and I'm glad this team is working here too (sort of) and I'm pretty sure someone experienced like you would pilot/optimize it better than I do.
Had this streak come to an end just short of the leaderboard at 63 wins and I think there's definitely room for improvement, but I'm quite pleased with this team concept based entirely around rain and it's a ton of fun to play with, so here we go. The team members on their own might not be the best, but paired up in the way they were on this team it actually worked really well. This is for ORAS Super Triples.
The Team
Left Starter
Politoed @ Damp Rock
Drizzle
Calm
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 Spe
- Toxic
- Protect
- Scald
- Rest
Politoed has one job: get the rain up and switch out. The IVs are so that it can serve to get KOs if it has to come back into battle, but this did pose some issues later in the streak, so I'm planning to retrain it as HP/SpD for if I try again. Scald is its main method of dealing direct damage and fishing for burns, and Toxic, Rest, and Protect are for stalling.
Centre Starter
Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Regenerator
Rash
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 SpD
- Knock Off
- Dark Pulse
- Hurricane
- U-turn
This Tornadus set is built around spamming 100% accurate STAB Hurricanes in the rain and providing support in taking out opposing Grass-types that threaten my Swampert. With U-turn and Regenerator, it can also serve as a useful pivot in switching out to Gyarados, but I didn't really make enough use of this as I should have. Knock Off allows Tornadus to remove threatening items from the opponent, and I didn't really like Dark Pulse on this set. If I do this challenge again, I'll likely change the item to a Choice Scarf and replace Dark Pulse with Psychic.
Right Starter
Swampert-M @ Swampertite
Swift Swim
Naughty
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP
- Power-Up Punch
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
The ace of the team. With the rain up and Swampert in Mega form, it hits a terrifying 244 speed, which is only outsped by Aerodactyl1, Entei3, and Manectric4, one of which isn't seen at higher streaks and one of which can't touch Swampert at all. Waterfall is the main STAB method of dealing damage behind 222 Attack at Level 50, Earthquake is for dealing with Electric-types and for spread damage, Power-Up Punch is used when cleaning up low-health kills to get Attack boosts, and Ice Punch is coverage for Flying-, Grass-, and Dragon-types. Ideally, the way my team is arranged, Earthquake should never have collateral damage on my teammates, which is a good thing.
Backups
Raichu @ Air Balloon
Lightning Rod
Timid
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 SpD
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot
- Nasty Plot
Raichu isn't a very good Pokemon stats-wise, but it has one job here and it does it well. On the first turn of every battle, I switch Politoed out and send in Raichu. Lightning Rod is the key here, redirecting Electric-type attacks away from Tornadus and Gyarados and getting stat boosts from it. Thunder has perfect accuracy in the rain and hits extremely hard. Volt Switch is a secondary option which allows Raichu to switch out if need be. Grass Knot is for coverage and taking out Ground-types, while I never really ended up using Nasty Plot. I may end up just relying on Lightning Rod boosts and using Signal Beam as a fourth coverage option, as Raichu redirecting Electric-type attacks happened more than you think, sometimes multiple times in the same battle. The Air Balloon allows Raichu to not die immediately and can trick AI opponents into wasting their time targeting it, allowing the team some time to get hits in.
Gyarados @ Life Orb
Intimidate
Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
Gyarados is a secondary physical attacker to clean up in the late-game. Since Tornadus is in the middle of the field, it's usually the first one to faint, allowing Gyarados to come in and get a full-power Intimidate on the opposing team. Dragon Dance is used for setup if playing against more defensive foes, while the offensive moves follow a similar strategy to Swampert. Life Orb is used to get more damage off.
Suicune @ Leftovers
Pressure
Sassy
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
On a good battle, my Suicune never has to come in at all, but if it does, it's able to take hits and bring it home. This is a basic CroCune set. Calm Mind for boosting offensive power and bulk, Scald for dealing damage and fishing for burns, and RestTalk to keep healing and still be able to work while attacking.
How I Lost
This one was painful because it was a mixture of misplays and bad luck. Battle 64, I get Veteran Hera who has Tornadus, Thundurus, Regigigas, Latias, Regirock, and Entei. I start with my usual strategy and the Vet leads with Latias, Regirock, and Entei.
Turn 1 I switch in Raichu and Mega Evolve Swampert. Latias uses Thunder into Lightning Rod, so I get a free boost, but then I make a mistake. What I should have done was double-target Entei2 with my Tornadus and Swampert. Instead, I used Knock Off on the Latias, allowing Entei to burn Swampert with Will-o-Wisp, and used Waterfall from Swampert on Regirock. Regirock goes for Stone Edge and OHKOs Tornadus.
Turn 2, Gyarados comes in and Intimidates Entei and Latias. Swampert uses Waterfall on Entei for half damage, Latias OHKOs Raichu with Draco Meteor, Gyarados OHKOs Latias with Ice Fang, Entei used Calm Mind, and Regirock takes out Gyarados with another Stone Edge. This is going bad.
Turn 3, Hera sends out Regigigas while I'm forced to send in my Politoed and Suicune earlier than I wanted. I made another mistake and double-targeted Regirock with Swampert and Suicune instead of taking out Entei, allowing it to RestChesto back to full health. This was mostly because I knew that this Regirock had Explosion and wanted to take it out before it would use it. I use Toxic on the Regigigas with Politoed as it Confuse Rays the frog.
Turn 4, Hera sends in her Thundurus, and this is where I start getting worried, because with Raichu out I have no protection against Electric-types. However, I got super lucky here and got a freeze and a crit on Thundurus with Ice Punch from Swampert. Suicune OHKOs Entei with Scald (I'm an idiot for not doing that earlier) while a Will-o-Wisp from Entei misses. Politoed hits itself in its confusion while Regigigas Confuse Rays my Suicune.
Turn 5, Hera sends in Tornadus. There are two different Tornadus sets that she can have, 1 or 2. Tornadus1 has Grass Knot, and as I find out the hard way, I got that one. I used Ice Punch again to finish off Thundurus, but Tornadus finishes off Swampert with Grass Knot. Both Politoed and Suicune hit themselves as Regigigas uses Payback that does nothing.
Turn 6, Tornadus one-shots Suicune from near-full health with Grass Knot. Politoed gets off a Scald on Regigigas while Gigas uses Drain Punch. Tornadus can't hit anything from where it is.
Turn 7, I use Protect on Politoed to ensure that Toxic takes out the last bit of Regigigas' health before dealing with the Tornadus.
From here on out, Tornadus uses Hurricane on Politoed, but miraculously, it lives with exactly 1 HP. It hits back with Scald, but barely misses taking Tornadus out. The rain stops, but Tornadus hits a 70% accurate Hurricane on the first try and wins. To rub salt in the wound of how close I came, Tornadus actually knocked itself out in the same turn with its Life Orb recoil, but it was too late for my team.
This loss stung mostly because I was tired and made some bad plays, like double-targeting Regirock and not double-targeting Entei. Still, it's crazy how close I came to pulling out this battle. If Hurricane misses, I win. If Scald gets a burn, I win. I don't know exactly what the damage roll for Scald was, but if it was a little higher I might have been able to pull it off. I also had some pretty brutal luck with confusion damage. Anyways, while this was definitely an imperfect team, I'm quite pleased with the synergy that it had.
The Team
Left Starter
Politoed @ Damp Rock
Drizzle
Calm
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 Spe
- Toxic
- Protect
- Scald
- Rest
Politoed has one job: get the rain up and switch out. The IVs are so that it can serve to get KOs if it has to come back into battle, but this did pose some issues later in the streak, so I'm planning to retrain it as HP/SpD for if I try again. Scald is its main method of dealing direct damage and fishing for burns, and Toxic, Rest, and Protect are for stalling.
Centre Starter
Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Regenerator
Rash
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 SpD
- Knock Off
- Dark Pulse
- Hurricane
- U-turn
This Tornadus set is built around spamming 100% accurate STAB Hurricanes in the rain and providing support in taking out opposing Grass-types that threaten my Swampert. With U-turn and Regenerator, it can also serve as a useful pivot in switching out to Gyarados, but I didn't really make enough use of this as I should have. Knock Off allows Tornadus to remove threatening items from the opponent, and I didn't really like Dark Pulse on this set. If I do this challenge again, I'll likely change the item to a Choice Scarf and replace Dark Pulse with Psychic.
Right Starter
Swampert-M @ Swampertite
Swift Swim
Naughty
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP
- Power-Up Punch
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
The ace of the team. With the rain up and Swampert in Mega form, it hits a terrifying 244 speed, which is only outsped by Aerodactyl1, Entei3, and Manectric4, one of which isn't seen at higher streaks and one of which can't touch Swampert at all. Waterfall is the main STAB method of dealing damage behind 222 Attack at Level 50, Earthquake is for dealing with Electric-types and for spread damage, Power-Up Punch is used when cleaning up low-health kills to get Attack boosts, and Ice Punch is coverage for Flying-, Grass-, and Dragon-types. Ideally, the way my team is arranged, Earthquake should never have collateral damage on my teammates, which is a good thing.
Backups
Raichu @ Air Balloon
Lightning Rod
Timid
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 SpD
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot
- Nasty Plot
Raichu isn't a very good Pokemon stats-wise, but it has one job here and it does it well. On the first turn of every battle, I switch Politoed out and send in Raichu. Lightning Rod is the key here, redirecting Electric-type attacks away from Tornadus and Gyarados and getting stat boosts from it. Thunder has perfect accuracy in the rain and hits extremely hard. Volt Switch is a secondary option which allows Raichu to switch out if need be. Grass Knot is for coverage and taking out Ground-types, while I never really ended up using Nasty Plot. I may end up just relying on Lightning Rod boosts and using Signal Beam as a fourth coverage option, as Raichu redirecting Electric-type attacks happened more than you think, sometimes multiple times in the same battle. The Air Balloon allows Raichu to not die immediately and can trick AI opponents into wasting their time targeting it, allowing the team some time to get hits in.
Gyarados @ Life Orb
Intimidate
Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
Gyarados is a secondary physical attacker to clean up in the late-game. Since Tornadus is in the middle of the field, it's usually the first one to faint, allowing Gyarados to come in and get a full-power Intimidate on the opposing team. Dragon Dance is used for setup if playing against more defensive foes, while the offensive moves follow a similar strategy to Swampert. Life Orb is used to get more damage off.
Suicune @ Leftovers
Pressure
Sassy
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
On a good battle, my Suicune never has to come in at all, but if it does, it's able to take hits and bring it home. This is a basic CroCune set. Calm Mind for boosting offensive power and bulk, Scald for dealing damage and fishing for burns, and RestTalk to keep healing and still be able to work while attacking.
How I Lost
This one was painful because it was a mixture of misplays and bad luck. Battle 64, I get Veteran Hera who has Tornadus, Thundurus, Regigigas, Latias, Regirock, and Entei. I start with my usual strategy and the Vet leads with Latias, Regirock, and Entei.
Turn 1 I switch in Raichu and Mega Evolve Swampert. Latias uses Thunder into Lightning Rod, so I get a free boost, but then I make a mistake. What I should have done was double-target Entei2 with my Tornadus and Swampert. Instead, I used Knock Off on the Latias, allowing Entei to burn Swampert with Will-o-Wisp, and used Waterfall from Swampert on Regirock. Regirock goes for Stone Edge and OHKOs Tornadus.
Turn 2, Gyarados comes in and Intimidates Entei and Latias. Swampert uses Waterfall on Entei for half damage, Latias OHKOs Raichu with Draco Meteor, Gyarados OHKOs Latias with Ice Fang, Entei used Calm Mind, and Regirock takes out Gyarados with another Stone Edge. This is going bad.
Turn 3, Hera sends out Regigigas while I'm forced to send in my Politoed and Suicune earlier than I wanted. I made another mistake and double-targeted Regirock with Swampert and Suicune instead of taking out Entei, allowing it to RestChesto back to full health. This was mostly because I knew that this Regirock had Explosion and wanted to take it out before it would use it. I use Toxic on the Regigigas with Politoed as it Confuse Rays the frog.
Turn 4, Hera sends in her Thundurus, and this is where I start getting worried, because with Raichu out I have no protection against Electric-types. However, I got super lucky here and got a freeze and a crit on Thundurus with Ice Punch from Swampert. Suicune OHKOs Entei with Scald (I'm an idiot for not doing that earlier) while a Will-o-Wisp from Entei misses. Politoed hits itself in its confusion while Regigigas Confuse Rays my Suicune.
Turn 5, Hera sends in Tornadus. There are two different Tornadus sets that she can have, 1 or 2. Tornadus1 has Grass Knot, and as I find out the hard way, I got that one. I used Ice Punch again to finish off Thundurus, but Tornadus finishes off Swampert with Grass Knot. Both Politoed and Suicune hit themselves as Regigigas uses Payback that does nothing.
Turn 6, Tornadus one-shots Suicune from near-full health with Grass Knot. Politoed gets off a Scald on Regigigas while Gigas uses Drain Punch. Tornadus can't hit anything from where it is.
Turn 7, I use Protect on Politoed to ensure that Toxic takes out the last bit of Regigigas' health before dealing with the Tornadus.
From here on out, Tornadus uses Hurricane on Politoed, but miraculously, it lives with exactly 1 HP. It hits back with Scald, but barely misses taking Tornadus out. The rain stops, but Tornadus hits a 70% accurate Hurricane on the first try and wins. To rub salt in the wound of how close I came, Tornadus actually knocked itself out in the same turn with its Life Orb recoil, but it was too late for my team.
This loss stung mostly because I was tired and made some bad plays, like double-targeting Regirock and not double-targeting Entei. Still, it's crazy how close I came to pulling out this battle. If Hurricane misses, I win. If Scald gets a burn, I win. I don't know exactly what the damage roll for Scald was, but if it was a little higher I might have been able to pull it off. I also had some pretty brutal luck with confusion damage. Anyways, while this was definitely an imperfect team, I'm quite pleased with the synergy that it had.
I'm not sure how much feedback you're looking for, but some comments on stuff that I noticed:
Water STAB (either Surf or Scald depending on team comp) and Ice Beam are the only move options that are mandatory, you'll only very rarely be using the other two slots so you can basically go wild there. Psychic and a second Water STAB move are offensive options, Rain Dance is good for resetting weather from an opposing auto-weather ability lead, Hypnosis... does things and the low accuracy doesn't matter as much as usual when you'll only be using it at times when Politoed is a dead slot anyways, even Perish Song doesn't sound completely awful in theory as a panic button against an out-of-control Zapdos2 or similar mons.
The set you're using is a singles set; if I were to use Torn-T I'd probably do something like Hurricane / Superpower / U-turn | Knock Off | Taunt / Protect @ Focus Sash, seems like it would do the Grass killing / pivoting job you want it to, with the ability to (most of the time) get off a guaranteed second hit + position itself a bit better and with better coverage against Steel- / Rock-types.
Also I wouldn't use Suicune, it just sounds like it'd get overwhelmed when it's outnumbered, and if it's not then you'd be better off keeping up the offensive pressure anyways. If you are using it in doubles / triples, a Tailwind set (Scald / Ice Beam / Snarl / Tailwind, bulky EV spread usually) is traditionally its best bet rather than a CroCune set but that feels kinda redundant on this team.
Other stuff you could use... Ludicolo (Surf / Grass Knot / Ice Beam / Fake Out @ Absorb Bulb) is a classic that pairs very well with Surf Politoed in the centre lead position, and Kingdra is another conventionally strong choice for a Swift Swim user. Scizor also always works well on these teams, CB set sounds kinda fun to try in the centre lead position in Torn-T's role but that idea also sounds like it has serious flop potential lol. And Gastrodon is always a good countermeasure to opposing Electric-types / rain teams / Trick Room, but your team already has Raichu to fill part of that role. More general stuff to consider is a Fake Out user on your lead trio (stops a ton of nasty stuff) and countermeasures to opposing rain and Trick Room (e.g. Fake Out again, slow bulky attackers, that sort of thing).
I'm not exactly confident in my ability to suggest/provide feedback on a full team anymore (definitely take everything I'm saying here with a grain of salt) since I haven't touched triples in >3 years, I just felt like commenting on this, hopefully some of it is useful.
In doubles/triples it makes sense for this to be a more offensive set; the format is super momentum based, so it's really helpful if your Politoed can actually do something turn 1, and having to switch it out by default is not good tbh. Choice Scarf is usually the best set for this reason (you really don't need Damp Rock, it's rare for battles not to be decided yet by turn 5, and for those cases it's better to rely on a core that can function outside of rain too (which you should have anyways)). Specs technically works in theory I guess but Politoed shouldn't be your main damage source, and with Scarf it's at least almost guaranteed to do something.
Water STAB (either Surf or Scald depending on team comp) and Ice Beam are the only move options that are mandatory, you'll only very rarely be using the other two slots so you can basically go wild there. Psychic and a second Water STAB move are offensive options, Rain Dance is good for resetting weather from an opposing auto-weather ability lead, Hypnosis... does things and the low accuracy doesn't matter as much as usual when you'll only be using it at times when Politoed is a dead slot anyways, even Perish Song doesn't sound completely awful in theory as a panic button against an out-of-control Zapdos2 or similar mons.
To be entirely honest Torn-T isn't considered a good Pokemon in non-singles formats, just doesn't have many differentiating qualities in those, and I feel it's also a bit of a suboptimal choice in your centre lead position since you want to be all about overwhelming the opponent and in the end it's pretty weak. The potential that it does have is also kinda wasted in the centre, since one of its main draws would be being able to hit anywhere on the field with Hurricane, i.e. I could see it doing things as a backup when it can come in on simply any position and hit stuff from the sides too. Lead U-turn is always a cute idea though, and I don't exactly want to tell you "just use Ludicolo"....
The set you're using is a singles set; if I were to use Torn-T I'd probably do something like Hurricane / Superpower / U-turn | Knock Off | Taunt / Protect @ Focus Sash, seems like it would do the Grass killing / pivoting job you want it to, with the ability to (most of the time) get off a guaranteed second hit + position itself a bit better and with better coverage against Steel- / Rock-types.
Adamant >>> Naughty but I don't need to tell you that. Also needs Protect somewhere, especially with that huge Grass weakness and it not getting the Mega Speed boost right away, I don't see PuP coming into play often outside of battles that you'd win anyways so it makes most sense to replace that one. Gyarados needs it too for the similar reasons, and if you're not going Mega then Waterfall / Return has the best two-move coverage. All-out offense with Waterfall / Earthquake / Ice Fang works too but Gyarados actually has the defensive typing to be able to semi-consistently pull off a Dragon Dance with proper positioning. Gyarados might need reconsidering outright though, not because it's bad but because it may be kinda overkill and you need to be able to hold out defensively too, especially if you were to add something like Ludicolo too.
Ok I see where you're going with this but idk if Raichu is the best fit in this role; as you noted it's very frail and weak, and the Air Balloon isn't a reliable Ground immunity. Bulky Specs Thundurus-T is the best Pokemon people have been using in this role, not easy to take down + hits the Water-types you want it to take on (and generally anything tbh) pretty hard + doesn't ever care about Swampert's Earthquake, and ofc your team could use Thunder over Thunderbolt. You would lose Lightning Rod's redirection, but I would recommend you swap out some Electric-weak Pokemon anyways tbh, and between Swampert + Electric-types' general frailty you could be pretty well equipped to handle them as is with offensive pressure.
Also I wouldn't use Suicune, it just sounds like it'd get overwhelmed when it's outnumbered, and if it's not then you'd be better off keeping up the offensive pressure anyways. If you are using it in doubles / triples, a Tailwind set (Scald / Ice Beam / Snarl / Tailwind, bulky EV spread usually) is traditionally its best bet rather than a CroCune set but that feels kinda redundant on this team.
Other stuff you could use... Ludicolo (Surf / Grass Knot / Ice Beam / Fake Out @ Absorb Bulb) is a classic that pairs very well with Surf Politoed in the centre lead position, and Kingdra is another conventionally strong choice for a Swift Swim user. Scizor also always works well on these teams, CB set sounds kinda fun to try in the centre lead position in Torn-T's role but that idea also sounds like it has serious flop potential lol. And Gastrodon is always a good countermeasure to opposing Electric-types / rain teams / Trick Room, but your team already has Raichu to fill part of that role. More general stuff to consider is a Fake Out user on your lead trio (stops a ton of nasty stuff) and countermeasures to opposing rain and Trick Room (e.g. Fake Out again, slow bulky attackers, that sort of thing).
I'm not exactly confident in my ability to suggest/provide feedback on a full team anymore (definitely take everything I'm saying here with a grain of salt) since I haven't touched triples in >3 years, I just felt like commenting on this, hopefully some of it is useful.
Thanks for the advice! Those suggestions have been things that I’ve noticed at times, such as Tornadus usually dying pretty quickly and Politoed not really being good for much. Once I got past 50, the opposing teams would often throw multiple Electric-types at me on the left side, taking out Raichu to allow for open season on everything not named Swampert. I agree that Ludicolo over Gyarados would probably be an upgrade with the neutral Electric coverage and Swift Swim - it mostly comes down to that I have more RL stuff going on as well as a greater focus on the Tree now that I finally figured out efficient ways to breed and EV train stuff in Ultra Moon, so I haven’t spent a ton of time optimizing this set. (I also made it like three years ago, so sentimental attachment/delusion is probably part of it too). I will say, I’m curious about trying to replicate some of this team’s elements for Tree Doubles and see how it works, especially now that I actually have perfect IV coverage with Dittos to use!
Hey there!
Im opting for the very best battle maison super singles team and maybe Ive found it. While Ive been reading some posts about the maison which recommend generally a defensive/stallish or exploiting the ai (trick, memento, ...) playstyle, I disagree with that. I have tried some of those tactics in the past (cm Suicune, cm Lati@s and a few others) in some older gens and from my experience it did not go too well after a longer series. Playing passively increases chances of having bad luck, can waste momentum and taking down opponents takes eternity. All I need is speed and power, combined with type coverage, some bulk to not lose my mons to OHKOs and making smart choices during battle. Let me introduce my team:
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Multiscale
Adamant
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 4 SpD / 188 Spe (EVs copied from turskain)
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Clear Body
Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
- Explosion
- Iron Head
- Bullet Punch
- Thunder Punch
Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Skill Link
Naughty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: x/31/x/31/x/31
- Surf
- Explosion
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash
These fellows cut through their opponents like a hot knife through butter. Any of them is able to wipe out certain teams on its own. Even though the only thing Im sure about is that Cloyster is the best mon in the world. When I was building this team I wasnt sure about Dragonite and Metagross at all. All I needed was a strong dragon dancer and a bulky attacker that could cover team weaknesses. For a dragon dancer, I had to pick from (mega) Gyarados, Dragonite, mega Latios and (mega) Salamence. All other dragon dancers are too slow, too weak or too fragile in my opinion. To make my bulky attacker even more bulkier, I decided to keep my mega slot for it. So I had to choose from Gyarados, Dragonite and Salamence. Im still not sure about Dragonite being the best choice, but I didnt regret it yet after testing this team for 350 consecutive battles for now. Having multiscale helps to setup dragon dance often in round 1 and sweep, but it can also invite reckless play leading to terrible matchups, losing Dragonite to OHKOs, even without being hit by an ice attack. Gyarados and Salamence on the other hand would have to deal with similar problems, but with access to intimidate, they might be able to setup a lot safer after a few switchouts and switchins to reduce opponents atk. For the bulky attacker, mega metagross seems to be a solid choice, even though Im not sure about it as well: well rounded stats, resists any of Dragonites weaknesses, can deal with rock, ice and fairy mons that Dragonite cant deal with using iron head, can revenge kill or win a 1v1 thanks to bullet punch, takes out annoying water types with thunder punch and can blow up on another mon after it has won the 1v1, gaining even more control over the battle. Even using explosion to take out my mega metagross for an annoying mon in a 1v1 can be perfectly fine. I dont think mega metagross could be improved, even though Im not entirely sure about its EVs.
Dragonite can lose multiscale to annoying fake out users, rendering its ability useless. While its first 3 moves seem to be perfect, the last move isnt easy to determine. Firepunch could be nice but is unfortunately too weak. Superpower could offer the necessary power against certain i. e. ice type mons, but it ruins its sweeping capabilities, except if used on his last mon. Roost seems nice at first glance to maintain multiscale but it really just wastes momentum and thus increases chances for getting haxed. Extreme Speed is rarely useful, only good for revenge killing, attacking mons which are faster even after 2 dragon dances and during trick room. Ive been thinking to go for protect, being able to scout before allowing to take a hit, but it could give my opponent a free move to setup. Maybe its EVs could be improved for a little more bulk, turning some OHKOs into 2HKOs if possible. In many cases it can setup 1 or 2 dragon dances at the start of the battle and sweep through their whole team.
About Cloyster: theres not much to say, never switch out your current mon for Cloyster to keep his sash intact, never send it into sandstorm weather, always finish mons close to death first before using shell smash if Cloyster has more speed, use shell smash once while still having the sash and spam icicle spear, use surf or even explosion if you have to. Cloyster outspeeds the whole maison after 1 shell smash. Only fake out users are annoying since they will finish Cloyster off right when they come in. Explosion is especially good when being up a whole mon and its other attacks wouldnt do much (the list of shell smash icicle spear OHKOs is amazing). Also, Ive found another strong shell smash user: focus sash surf, psychic, icebeam Gorebyss, but I prefer Cloyster.
Any thoughts for improvements or even stronger teams?
Im opting for the very best battle maison super singles team and maybe Ive found it. While Ive been reading some posts about the maison which recommend generally a defensive/stallish or exploiting the ai (trick, memento, ...) playstyle, I disagree with that. I have tried some of those tactics in the past (cm Suicune, cm Lati@s and a few others) in some older gens and from my experience it did not go too well after a longer series. Playing passively increases chances of having bad luck, can waste momentum and taking down opponents takes eternity. All I need is speed and power, combined with type coverage, some bulk to not lose my mons to OHKOs and making smart choices during battle. Let me introduce my team:
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Multiscale
Adamant
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 4 SpD / 188 Spe (EVs copied from turskain)
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Clear Body
Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
- Explosion
- Iron Head
- Bullet Punch
- Thunder Punch
Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Skill Link
Naughty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: x/31/x/31/x/31
- Surf
- Explosion
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash
These fellows cut through their opponents like a hot knife through butter. Any of them is able to wipe out certain teams on its own. Even though the only thing Im sure about is that Cloyster is the best mon in the world. When I was building this team I wasnt sure about Dragonite and Metagross at all. All I needed was a strong dragon dancer and a bulky attacker that could cover team weaknesses. For a dragon dancer, I had to pick from (mega) Gyarados, Dragonite, mega Latios and (mega) Salamence. All other dragon dancers are too slow, too weak or too fragile in my opinion. To make my bulky attacker even more bulkier, I decided to keep my mega slot for it. So I had to choose from Gyarados, Dragonite and Salamence. Im still not sure about Dragonite being the best choice, but I didnt regret it yet after testing this team for 350 consecutive battles for now. Having multiscale helps to setup dragon dance often in round 1 and sweep, but it can also invite reckless play leading to terrible matchups, losing Dragonite to OHKOs, even without being hit by an ice attack. Gyarados and Salamence on the other hand would have to deal with similar problems, but with access to intimidate, they might be able to setup a lot safer after a few switchouts and switchins to reduce opponents atk. For the bulky attacker, mega metagross seems to be a solid choice, even though Im not sure about it as well: well rounded stats, resists any of Dragonites weaknesses, can deal with rock, ice and fairy mons that Dragonite cant deal with using iron head, can revenge kill or win a 1v1 thanks to bullet punch, takes out annoying water types with thunder punch and can blow up on another mon after it has won the 1v1, gaining even more control over the battle. Even using explosion to take out my mega metagross for an annoying mon in a 1v1 can be perfectly fine. I dont think mega metagross could be improved, even though Im not entirely sure about its EVs.
Dragonite can lose multiscale to annoying fake out users, rendering its ability useless. While its first 3 moves seem to be perfect, the last move isnt easy to determine. Firepunch could be nice but is unfortunately too weak. Superpower could offer the necessary power against certain i. e. ice type mons, but it ruins its sweeping capabilities, except if used on his last mon. Roost seems nice at first glance to maintain multiscale but it really just wastes momentum and thus increases chances for getting haxed. Extreme Speed is rarely useful, only good for revenge killing, attacking mons which are faster even after 2 dragon dances and during trick room. Ive been thinking to go for protect, being able to scout before allowing to take a hit, but it could give my opponent a free move to setup. Maybe its EVs could be improved for a little more bulk, turning some OHKOs into 2HKOs if possible. In many cases it can setup 1 or 2 dragon dances at the start of the battle and sweep through their whole team.
About Cloyster: theres not much to say, never switch out your current mon for Cloyster to keep his sash intact, never send it into sandstorm weather, always finish mons close to death first before using shell smash if Cloyster has more speed, use shell smash once while still having the sash and spam icicle spear, use surf or even explosion if you have to. Cloyster outspeeds the whole maison after 1 shell smash. Only fake out users are annoying since they will finish Cloyster off right when they come in. Explosion is especially good when being up a whole mon and its other attacks wouldnt do much (the list of shell smash icicle spear OHKOs is amazing). Also, Ive found another strong shell smash user: focus sash surf, psychic, icebeam Gorebyss, but I prefer Cloyster.
Any thoughts for improvements or even stronger teams?
Walrein4, of course. Except it runs into Lax Incense and doesn't hit at all, making it an extremely productive move.
Im not sure if this answers your question, but Cloyster loves to blow up on anything that resists his STAB moves, especially stuff like Lapras that resist icicle spear 4 times. Ive been thinking about running protect instead of surf or explosion on it which would nullify fake out weakness since I could use protect whenever a new mon comes in, but it could also give my opponent a free turn to setup. But right now I rarely face a fake out mon and if I do, they use it on Dragonite.
This doesnt sound right. While it is true that Walrein4 threatens to hax through my team (Ive never looked up movesets so far, so Im only considering sheer cold + ice beam/blizzard here), I got a few options to deal with it. The first option would be to not switch out but go for outrage right away. Since all Walreins are speedcapped at 85, any teammember can outspeed it without a boost. Even if Walrein takes down Dragonite, I can go for revenge kill next turn and make it an even position. The second option would be to switch on Cloyster right away. Even if sheer cold hits, its sash will safe it and it could in return blow up on Walrein. In case it survives, again, I can go for the revenge kill, having an even position.
I would be more concerned about getting quick claw OHKO haxed, but theres nothing you can do against that anyway. Im at 400 wins right now without any casualties, Ive never looked up movesets and never used any damage calculators. Ive had a few more terrible matchups due to misplay, but whatever, the rest of my team could carry. Sometimes it is best not to setup but go for the kill with Dragonite right away. Ive also noticed that the ai adapts their teams to the types I use, and maybe it solely depends on my first mon. I face lots of ice, plant, fairy, rock and dragon leads with lead Dragonite. When Cloyster was my lead, I faced much fighting, water, ice, rock leads.
Btw, would superpower on Dragonite be able to OHKO Walrein?
I'll try to be somewhat short on this...
The AI doesn't adapt their team to yours. It's pregenerated randomly based on the availability trainer you are facing.
Rather than using selective memory, you could try to write down every single enemy team comp you face over 100+ battles, and easily notice how the "unfortunate" matchups are a minority.
The point Sadistic wanted to make is that you're vulnerable to hax due to having only setup sweepers and no defensive switch in. There's plenty of both evasion, 1hko and quick claw users, as well as sash and scarfers (I heard legends of gen 6 Garchomp-34...) around in later parts of the facility.
Without a safe, defensive switch in or lead that can take a hit or setup a safe substitute to avoid 1hkos, the question isn't if you'll get haxed, but when.
The main reason for which nearly every successful singles team sports a defensive wall or two is that neutering a lead you know and setting up a unkillable sweeper behind a substitute or similar safety measures is much more difficult to hax than having 3 offensive pokemon and hope the enemy backline is good.
That might be true. But Ive noticed that with lead Cloyster Ive faced Sawk and Throh a lot more than I do now with lead Dragonite. I play OR on citra if it matters.
Mega metagross is a setup sweeper that cannot work as a defensive switch in? Dragonite cannot be a defensive switch in (primary against fire, ground) if I ever decided to switch it out in round 1? About evasion: I just boost as much as I want and spam attacks. So far it took me max 3 tries to get the hit which also OHKOed. Evasion is nothing I mind because it is just a matter of time and I wont be taken down in the meantime, 1HKO isnt either unless it is combined with speed/quick claw, sash users still fall due to icicle spear (one mon with focus band survived 2 times in a row today, but Cloyster still got the OHKO on the fifth hit xD) and scarfers can be good for a surprise, but will afterwards be locked and exploited. Only Dragonite would have left a slot for sub, but Im not sure about that. I just go for the kill and have almost always the advantage of being up 1 or 2 mons very early. There are only a few matchups where I have to play around their typing. Right now Im at 515 wins and I dont get the feeling my team would fall anytime soon. I think Id be way more vulnerable to hax if I wanted to play much longer matches which include PP stalling tactics. Being up a mon after the first rounds is very appreciated and almost guarantees me the win.
What are successful singles teams that sport a defensive wall or two, in terms of successful? All of them got haxed rather later than sooner, lasting up to around 3600 battles. While it sounds nice to have an unkillable sweeper set up, in practice it means to waste countless rounds to achieve that position, wasting lots of momentum, lifetime and giving the ai plenty of chances to hax you. The most defensive mon Ive played probably were cm cune in gen3 duel tower and mega mence + aegislash pp stalling core in gen vii, but they got haxed nonetheless somewhere towards 1000 wins. Comparing all strategies Ive ever tried, my current seems by far the best.
Due to the nature of singles, it's relatively easy and possible to even run 4-500 matches without getting haxed down.
You can see the first post of this very topic... the big thousand runners have that setup.
They aren't immune to hax either, just the events that can actually hax them down are significantly lower (usually requiring a specific combination of pokemon, see writeups)
For example, the highest score of 3600+ of TDP
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-maison-discussion-records.3492706/page-165#post-6481019
he has a threalist where he mentions how his biggest threats feature essentially flinch hax and sweepers that he can't outspeed nor setup on, which are extremely few, but running into a lead of one of those with his team not setup on is a potential istant loss.
Jumpman's 3600 streak instead
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-maison-discussion-records.3492706/page-108#post-5927119
features a tried and used "disable lead, setup and 1v3" which also got success later in tree in gen 7 in the form of Durant/Mimikyu/Glalie (though, tree adds further degrees of problems with Z and Megas), which functions on the tried and working entrainment, which usually tends to only be vulnerable to the AI rolling multiple unsetuppable mons
Josh's 2300 streak
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-maison-discussion-records.3492706/page-198#post-6915397
has a pretty comprehensive and detailed threatlist of "well, if this shows up as lead, I have to pray", and he in fact actually lost to a misplay of his own rather than getting haxed
As you can see, while no team is immune to Hax, you can tailor how much you can be haxed by. Having defensive pokemon / stallers able to disable a bad lead is the safest option, since it doesn't put you in the situation of "well, if their lead counters my lead, I most likely lost"
This trend has been a thing for at least 3 gens of facilities (as I said, further important in gen 7 where the AI got access to *more* evasion users (curse you Sina) on top of megas and Z-moves adding extra "i can have my lead murdered turn 1" scenarios.
The AI will always, inevitably be able to Hax you. The only question is when.
Triple threat compositions are by definition more vulnerable to being RNGd, due to the fact that if their lead gets countered / walled, they can't switch it out, and have to sacrifice the lead and hope that the remaining 2 pokemon can deal with the 2 backlines on top of the current active pokemon.