Tournaments SMPL IV - Format Discussion

[Maktyum]

As a two-time SMPL manager (one-time champion woooo Wailords), i'm glad the suspect slot is gone. It was worth a try but as some have mentioned, nothing comes out of it tiering-wise, let alone the fact that one of your player has to actually build something and can't just reuse or be given teams. I know some people love to build, test and stuff but some are just lazy and only want to play their tour games.

Also this reasoning is just mind blowing...imagine having to think a little, discussing about a tier which I hope you are passionate about if you joined the SMPL tournament...Imagine going into a tour and being forced to not reuse in just ONE slot, what a difficult task. I wonder how the teams that are reused were made in the first place, maybe arceus came and gave it. yeah you are so right, building is not the core of the game.
Or maybe SMPL could be called ANYTIERPL and people would join it just as part of the tour schedule because they don't care.
How about not playing the game at all and being granted the win, not even having to choose a team is even easier than having to reuse a team given by another player...your players would be so glad.
If you don't want to play the gen or think about it just don't join. If as a manager you don't want to be confronted by the lazyness of your players, just draft players that are motivated it is as simple as that.
And saying it was useless is a lie, it helped a lot in the case of Aegislash which was advocated at first by influencial players just to see how ass the tier would be with it (what was useless was in fact accepting aegis as the suspect not the reciprocal).

 

[Daepiquejt]

Another SM DOU slot could be heat

 

[Fc]

ou3 > suspect and same format would be good, suspect has always been a terrible slot for every edition and has never done anything for sm tiering. was effectively already cut based on the op so idk why it's still in discussions in this thread but ye it's bad please don't consider re-adding it.

if we go to 12 slots ag + mono would be good, will always support ag ofc and sm in particular has a strong playerbase + good activity, and dugza's post on mono was good so I'll trust the vision that it'll work too

 

[Miyoko]

Suspect slot would be useless to have. I happily accept the removal of that tier which never makes sense and probably will never make sense as well. Also, the idea of 12 slots looks good depending on SM having a really huge player base in overall and many enthusiasts or the tier. Also like the idea of addition of Monotype + Anything Goes as those tiers are really popular overall.
This year looking forward to having a new and improved format in SMPL. I hope everyone will enjoy the tour and I believe this will be the best season so far

 

[Oathkeeper]

SM ZU is an awesome meta and many people in the ZU community would agree it's arguably the best one. I'd go with

Ubers
OU x 4
DOU
UU
RU
NU
PU
ZU
LC

 

[Wesleyy]

SM ZU is an awesome meta and many people in the ZU community would agree it's arguably the best one. I'd go with

Ubers
OU x 4
DOU
UU
RU
NU
PU
ZU
LC

i agree this is a heat format

 

[feen]

suspects slots are stupid and nothing comes out of it. bo3 in sm ou only is doable just convert one sm ou slot to a bo3 slot. if you have to choose between monotype and zu, choose the official tier over the unofficial one (monotype over ZU).

if 10 slots:
Ubers
OU x 3
DOU
UU
RU
NU
PU
LC

if 12 slots:
Ubers
OU x 3
DOU
UU
RU
NU
PU
ZU
LC
Monotype

 

[BaitWiz]

I was just made aware of SM ZU’s potential inclusion in SMPL and want to speak to it as one of my personal favorite ZU metas, if not my outright favorite - there’s a ton of diversity in teambuilding and the meta’s still continuing to constantly develop and change. I’m certain it’d get more than enough signups without conflicting with other tier signups and I’m sure it’d be a highly competitive inclusion overall. SM’s defining Z moves also create a ton of additional depth with unique setup moves like Z-Mirror Move, Z-Heal Block, and Z-Me First, setup moves that as far as I’m aware aren’t utilized to nearly the same degree in other tiers outside of Omniboost setup and Z-Belly Drum.

I can’t speak to other formats, but I will briefly mention that as far as I’m concerned suspect slots aren’t amazing to begin with unless there’s a standout problematic element in the given tier or a worthy inclusion for being added back and my limited understanding is that neither is the case in SM OU; correct me if I’m wrong there. Thanks for reading this and I hope to see ZU present this year!

 

[5Dots]

I was just made aware of SM ZU’s potential inclusion in SMPL and want to speak to it as one of my personal favorite ZU metas, if not my outright favorite - there’s a ton of diversity in teambuilding and the meta’s still continuing to constantly develop and change. I’m certain it’d get more than enough signups without conflicting with other tier signups and I’m sure it’d be a highly competitive inclusion overall. SM’s defining Z moves also create a ton of additional depth with unique setup moves like Z-Mirror Move, Z-Heal Block, and Z-Me First, setup moves that as far as I’m aware aren’t utilized to nearly the same degree in other tiers outside of Omniboost setup and Z-Belly Drum.

I can’t speak to other formats, but I will briefly mention that as far as I’m concerned suspect slots aren’t amazing to begin with unless there’s a standout problematic element in the given tier or a worthy inclusion for being added back and my limited understanding is that neither is the case in SM OU; correct me if I’m wrong there. Thanks for reading this and I hope to see ZU present this year!

SM is one of ZU's most popular Old Gen and often has one of the most competitive pool in ZU team tournaments. I cant speak for other tiers, but you can be sure it will be a competitive pool and get more than enough signups. The ZU community is always happy with receiving more inclusion in such tournament's.

While I can't speak for other tiers, I am seconding these posts and would also like to advocate for SM ZU's inclusion. This meta has been diverse and interesting to build with, with Z moves adding a lot of depth to Pokemon otherwise not found in other generations. ZU has a thriving and competitive playerbase that continues to grow over the years; having it brought to SMPL will encourage players like veterans who have seen the birth of its ladder to newer players who have recently played in Triathlon. SM is one of the most popular slots in old gens and was popular enough to get two player slots in ZUPL IV.

 

[MANNAT]

Put SM Draft in

 

[Hacker]

I'll give this a real post now.

SM Draft is insanely popular and more importantly very competitive. Our yearly SM Draft tournaments get a fuck ton of signups and we smoke every single tier in this tour by a good amount. Just getting more signups itself of course is not enough to say we should get in but we are a serious and competitive tier. I don't need to rehash the arguments made in this thread by lax, star, etc but they all do apply here as well.

The only real barrier to getting draft in SMPL is the prospect of needing a week to actual draft teams but I don't think adding in a break week for this to happen would be a big deal. Many team tours already do this. Logistics would be pretty much the exact same as mentioned in this post. There might be concerns about Draft's accessibility as a format but there are plenty of resources to look at for it such as our format thread and the DCL sheets.

The format I support is:
Ubers
OU x 3
DOU
UU
RU
NU
PU
LC
Monotype
Draft

This is actually nothing against the ZU community but there isn't any other way to interpret this so apologies in advance because SM ZU looks fun and I would love to give it a try sometime. I checked ZU olympiad signups and ~37% of signups put SM in their tiers prefered and last ZU Triathlon had 59 signups for SM ZU. A small portion of those people who signed up would get picked to start PU in this tournament too so theres for sure player overlap that probably isn't ideal. For a point of comparison, SM cup for Draft got 428 signups and DCL had 233 SM signups. Alongside that, Draft is a slot that literally anyone is capable of taking on and doing well but we have a very unique playerbase as well that would be adding to this tournament. This also shouldn't really be used or shoved down whoever is in charge of the SMPL format to force Draft in, but it would be a huge stepping stone to work on getting draft integrated more with the rest of Smogon.

This tour is better with 12 slots regardless because SM is an insanely popular oldgen anyways though so I would prefer ZU get included alongside Monotype even if Draft doesn't get in. So....

TLDR; 12 Slots Monotype + Draft > 12 Slots Monotype + ZU > 10 Slots

 

[neomon]

I think a draft format has no good reason being included in usage based tier tours. At some point we might aswell start adding OMs or such.
SM ZU and Monotype are greatly enjoyed tiers respectively and fit format consistency better. I also dont think filling 12 slots will be an issue.

The suspect slot should never have happened and the concept as a whole should be abandoned anyway

Bo3 over OU3 can be done, im indifferent to that

 

[BigFatMantis]

Given the discussion re: draft formats in Smogon team tours, this does seem like a great tour to give it a shot. It’s obviously going to be an insanely popular slot for SM, and would probably make SMPL get 3x as many signups. I don’t think we can reasonably discount it based on how it might do in when we aren’t sure and haven’t seen it yet - plus besides OU it’s probably the most popular SM format.

 

[OdinRM]

I'll give this a real post now.

SM Draft is insanely popular and more importantly very competitive. Our yearly SM Draft tournaments get a fuck ton of signups and we smoke every single tier in this tour by a good amount. Just getting more signups itself of course is not enough to say we should get in but we are a serious and competitive tier. I don't need to rehash the arguments made in this thread by lax, star, etc but they all do apply here as well.

The only real barrier to getting draft in SMPL is the prospect of needing a week to actual draft teams but I don't think adding in a break week for this to happen would be a big deal. Many team tours already do this. Logistics would be pretty much the exact same as mentioned in this post. There might be concerns about Draft's accessibility as a format but there are plenty of resources to look at for it such as our format thread and the DCL sheets.

The format I support is:
Ubers
OU x 3
DOU
UU
RU
NU
PU
LC
Monotype
Draft

This is actually nothing against the ZU community but there isn't any other way to interpret this so apologies in advance because SM ZU looks fun and I would love to give it a try sometime. I checked ZU olympiad signups and ~37% of signups put SM in their tiers prefered and last ZU Triathlon had 59 signups for SM ZU. A small portion of those people who signed up would get picked to start PU in this tournament too so theres for sure player overlap that probably isn't ideal. For a point of comparison, SM cup for Draft got 428 signups and DCL had 233 SM signups. Alongside that, Draft is a slot that literally anyone is capable of taking on and doing well but we have a very unique playerbase as well that would be adding to this tournament. This also shouldn't really be used or shoved down whoever is in charge of the SMPL format to force Draft in, but it would be a huge stepping stone to work on getting draft integrated more with the rest of Smogon.

This tour is better with 12 slots regardless because SM is an insanely popular oldgen anyways though so I would prefer ZU get included alongside Monotype even if Draft doesn't get in. So....

TLDR; 12 Slots Monotype + Draft > 12 Slots Monotype + ZU > 10 Slots

Going to throw my two cents here in support of Hacker's post. As a recurring tournament SM Draft player i would definetly signup for SMPL If It were to be included.

In addition to the data brought by Hacker i would also like to mention, as someone thats constantly on the SM pool in Draft team tours, that the format last DCL reached its most competitive point in terms of playerbase, and in terms of balance the format has been incredibly stable ever since post DCL I with the Aegislash re-test.

While i can not comment on the other formats up for discussion, Draft should absolutely be up for discussion as It passes the competitive benchmark for inclusion, has an active and consistent playerbase and If more reasons are needed i encourage you to read the Draft in SCL thread linked by hacker as all those reasons still apply here.

 

[DuGuo]

:) ＞

 

[Hacker]

I think a draft format has no good reason being included in usage based tier tours.

So

• Can you explain the Ubers, LC, DOU, and the Monotype slot that you are advocating for then
• Since when is SMPL's identity usage based tier tours instead of SM formats as a whole? You don't even agree with what you're saying

At some point we might aswell start adding OMs or such.

If SM OM's are popular and competitive enough why shouldn't they be included?

I also don't really like the us vs them mentality I am about to reference but saying that draft has no good reason to be included in Smogon tournaments is a little bit ridiculous. There is a reason stuff like this is a discussion but saying Draft has no place ever does not lead to healthy discussion. I don't think ZU, Monotype, etc should be gatekept from being included in tours forever. It'd be different if any of them or Draft weren't competitive enough to warrant a slot, but they all for sure deserve more representation somewhere.

 

[Wesleyy]

Draft is a cool format and has a big community, i do think the tour should have 12 slots if draft is one of them.
Draft is a very interesting slot and would be alot of fun to have in a tour that isnt just draft

 

[hex]

I don't consider myself a Monotype mainer anymore, but we've had to argue for our inclusion in tours like ORASPL, and SMPL currently. Now Draft has to do the same thing, and there's really nothing wrong with including it. It's a great opportunity to make it more mainstream rather than keeping it secluded from the rest of the website. I don't really understand trying to knock Draft down a peg by saying we "might as well include OMs" while arguing for ZU in the same breath (I love ZU, this is not me saying they shouldn't be included). Not to mention this tier had a suspect slot for years which no one likes besides Skype probably lol. Its pretty obvious from this thread that the tour should be 12 slots and that the suspect slot should be nuked. Draft, Monotype, and ZU are all great tiers and should all be included, but no reason to bring other communities down when all of them are competitive and great. Also, not shading anyone LOL but why was this format thread posted like 3 months before the tour actually starts got us hype fnr :[

 

[neomon]

So

• Can you explain the Ubers, LC, DOU, and the Monotype slot that you are advocating for then
• Since when is SMPL's identity usage based tier tours instead of SM formats as a whole? You don't even agree with what you're saying

If SM OM's are popular and competitive enough why shouldn't they be included?

I also don't really like the us vs them mentality I am about to reference but saying that draft has no good reason to be included in Smogon tournaments is a little bit ridiculous. There is a reason stuff like this is a discussion but saying Draft has no place ever does not lead to healthy discussion. I don't think ZU, Monotype, etc should be gatekept from being included in tours forever. It'd be different if any of them or Draft weren't competitive enough to warrant a slot, but they all for sure deserve more representation somewhere.

The wording usage based tiers was obviously bad, I meant to differentiate between the Draft format and just the standard 6v6 tiers.

I don't consider myself a Monotype mainer anymore, but we've had to argue for our inclusion in tours like ORASPL, and SMPL currently. Now Draft has to do the same thing, and there's really nothing wrong with including it. It's a great opportunity to make it more mainstream rather than keeping it secluded from the rest of the website. I don't really understand trying to knock Draft down a peg by saying we "might as well include OMs" while arguing for ZU in the same breath (I love ZU, this is not me saying they shouldn't be included). Not to mention this tier had a suspect slot for years which no one likes besides Skype probably lol. Its pretty obvious from this thread that the tour should be 12 slots and that the suspect slot should be nuked. Draft, Monotype, and ZU are all great tiers and should all be included, but no reason to bring other communities down when all of them are competitive and great. Also, not shading anyone LOL but why was this format thread posted like 3 months before the tour actually starts got us hype fnr :[

I'm not sure at all how OMs and ZU are comparable. I dont understand the point. And if my first post was considered tier bashing, I apologize.

I have thought about it and im not in principle against adding the Draft slot anymore, but to me it makes more sense to keep including the Officials and Unofficials before adding draft and taking a slot away from them. This is also because I associate ZU and Mono much more with the times of SM being current gen than I do draft, and that to me is probably even more important than the format consistency. The nostalgia these old gen PLs bring with them is cool

 

[roxie]

Zcarlett has joined the host team! Thanks for volunteering <3

Good morning. As a former RoA tour night host, I recognize how RoA is a connection for both RoA's subset communities in SM + [tier affiliation like NU/OU]. As a contributor, I've looked over every tier, and I see how unique each tier is, and it's hard to really point fingers when there are resources and a unique, amazing, and competitive playerbase for each one. Anything Goes and ZU are unofficial metagames, but this is just a title (especially when there is so much contributions in place. thanks for that everyone). I've only played draft on side servers and discord, but as a host and player, I appreciate how unique the format is. SM Monotype is one of Monotype's most competitive generations, and I naturally cosign with its involvement. All in all I trust the leadership and sentiments presented in this thread. At the end of the day, let's make this tournament a competitive one if we are expanding. Teams will be allowed to have up to 3 managers for this edition. [Selfbuys: TBD] Our set start draft June 16th. For now, we will finalize some more things. Cheers to SMPL IV!

The format for SMPL IV is listed below:

1x SM Anything Goes
1x SM Ubers
3x SM OU
1x SM DOU
1x SM UU
1x SM RU
1x SM NU
1x SM PU
1x SM ZU
1x SM LC
1x SM Monotype
1x SM Draft

 

[roxie]

Following internal discussion, SMPL will not be going ahead with a 14-slot format. The revised format will be as follows:

1x SM Ubers
3x SM OU
1x SM DOU
1x SM UU
1x SM RU
1x SM NU
1x SM PU
1x SM ZU
1x SM LC
1x SM Monotype

Internal and community input was not considered enough, and this will be improved on going forward. We hope that this improvised 12-slot version will be more reflective of the community's expectations for this tournament. As a result of this change, this will also mean that the managers per team will be reduced to two. I apologise for any confusion made as a result of this, and if you have any concerns or questions then feel free to contact me or a member of the SM Mod team.