The council (or more accurately Finch since he's kind of become their public face for the most part) will probably begin discussing what to drop in DLC2, so that'd be the best time. If they come out and say that discussion on Darkrai is pretty much pointless until after the actual DLC drops, save it until that meta stabilizes a bit
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
Do we know when we'll know what will drop with DLC2? It's only a couple weeks away now so I have to imagine they're already figuring stuff out.
Probably very soon, considering the timeline pre-HOME. But I am not a council member so I can only speculate.
Honestly, Idk how to feel about these days about DLC2, I have obviously hype for the new DLC (both in-game and for Showdown), but at the same time, only miss 12 days and I want that it comes later, probably is because we are so close to a complete change of the meta, including new and old Pokémon, items, moves, but especially, the new Tera type, and seeing also the powercreep Gamefreak is giving to Gen 9, I'm still a bit' worried about it, obviously I'm not saying that the council will not resolve it, since we saw all the work both them and also we as a community did to make the meta enjoyable to everyone, including playstyles, and we're still doing so, but it's just the thought of what will happen during the first weeks that makes me a bit' nervous.
Anyway, if it's true that with DLC2 some mons are gonna get unbanned for a retest, then a bit' of tomfoolery wouldn't be that bad, since it's only with the first days (with limits clearly, hell, we don't want to see again Chi-Yu or Bloodmoon for example after all the votes of ban they got and what they could do).
Anyway, if it's true that with DLC2 some mons are gonna get unbanned for a retest, then a bit' of tomfoolery wouldn't be that bad, since it's only with the first days (with limits clearly, hell, we don't want to see again Chi-Yu or Bloodmoon for example after all the votes of ban they got and what they could do).
thats not why kingambit is considered an issue, its ok to have to take a NUMBER 2 ou mon into account when teambuilding, especially when it was 1st in usage last month, just because a pokemon isn’t automatically countered by something in your team doesn’t mean insta ban it, the issue people find with gambit is that with tera, a lot of checks like great tusk, iron valiant and zamazenta just don’t work and thus you end up getting reverse swept and after a swords dance and a supreme overlord , its hard to wall since a lot defensive mons that aren’t dondozo drop to a swords dance supreme overlord kowtow cleave, thats why its unhealthy, normally this would be a common misconception that i could easily explain in a sentence, but youre trying to dramatise having to adapt your team to a top 3 pokemon
Conkeldurr
A Brief Rundown
Hey everyone, wanted to drop a quick little note here about Conkeldurr as he's been a great and powerful Pokemon I've had quite a lot of fun with lately on various team builds (I'm sorry it's not a long post like my others, I'm saving all that good stuff for after DLC2 is released)! I'll list a brief overview of what Conkeldurr does and why he's really good right now in this ongoing dirth of OU hazard removal Pokemon (TLDR; fantastic Defog Utility attacker with longevity that hits like a truck and doesn't fear status - it's a great Pokemon to bring against various hazard teams).
Offensive Defog Utility
Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark/Steel/Fairy/Poison
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Defog
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
Conkeldurr Set Breakdown
A Brief Rundown
Hey everyone, wanted to drop a quick little note here about Conkeldurr as he's been a great and powerful Pokemon I've had quite a lot of fun with lately on various team builds (I'm sorry it's not a long post like my others, I'm saving all that good stuff for after DLC2 is released)! I'll list a brief overview of what Conkeldurr does and why he's really good right now in this ongoing dirth of OU hazard removal Pokemon (TLDR; fantastic Defog Utility attacker with longevity that hits like a truck and doesn't fear status - it's a great Pokemon to bring against various hazard teams).
Offensive Defog Utility
Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark/Steel/Fairy/Poison
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Defog
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
Conkeldurr Set Breakdown
- With an Adamant nature along with 252 Atk EVs, Conkeldurr has a whopping attack stat of 416. To give you an idea of how powerful Conk is, it is tied with Iron Hands for having the strongest STAB Fighting-type attacks in OU. Conkeldurr also has the same base attack stat as Ursaluna along with access to Guts (more on that in a second). So whether or not it's with or without a Guts attack boost, Conkeldurr can punch holes in your opponent's team cores.
- With Guts, Conkeldurr not only doesn't fear status, it thrives on it; in fact, it's the only offensively focused Defog user that doesn't fear status. Will-O-Wisp/Toxic Spikes spam is punished - and Conkeldurr feels more comfortable running Leftovers as a result. Conkeldurr's attacks hit even harder with Guts to an absurd degree - here are some damage calculations to give you an idea of Conkeldurr's insane power after a Guts boost (Drain Punch, Knock Off, Ice Punch).
Damage Calculations
This combination of Guts-boosted Drain Punch, Knock Off, and Ice Punch 2HKOs every Pokemon in the tier except for Alomomola (3HKO'd by Drain Punch, hates losing HDB or Leftovers to Knock Off), Full Defensive Clefable (4HKO'd with a microscopic chance to 3HKO by Ice Punch, hates losing Leftovers to Knock Off), Full Defensive Corviknight (3HKO'd by Drain Punch, hates losing item to Knock Off, cannot Roost in front of Conkeldurr as Corvinight outspeeds and will be OHKO'd by Drain Punch if it loses its Flying-type), Dondozo (252 HP/4 Def EV variant is 3HKO'd, 252 HP/252+ Def variant is 4HKO'd by Drain Punch, hates losing item to Knock Off), Hatterene (Full-powered Knock Off does a minimum of 44.9% and a maximum of 57.7% depending on the set, so there is a small chance to 2HKO Hatterene with the combination of Knock Off and Ice Punch, with that chance being near certain with a little chip damage) and Toxapex (4HKO'd by Drain Punch/Knock Off Combination, hates losing item to Knock Off).
Conkeldurr Set Breakdown Continued
Only six Pokemon in OU can (in some cases shakily) avoid a 2HKO from Guts-Boosted Conkeldurr's STAB Drain Punch, Knock Off, or Ice Punch. This means that out of the 38 OU/BL Pokemon, a little over 84% of the entire tier's lineup is either OHKO'd or 2HKO'd by Guts Conkeldurr's Drain Punch, Knock Off, Ice Punch combination. That's not all though -
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 846-996 (129.7 - 152.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 271-319 (75.9 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Garganacl: 272-324 (67.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Glimmora: 232-274 (75.5 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 594-698 (208.4 - 244.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Heatran: 404-476 (104.6 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 732-864 (183 - 216%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Manaphy: 211-250 (61.8 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Cornerstone: 492-582 (163.4 - 193.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 246-291 (81.7 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom: 234-276 (59.6 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 512-606 (159.5 - 188.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 350-414 (68 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 231-273 (68.1 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Post-Dauntless Shield Zamazenta: 189-223 (58.1 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Post-Dauntless Shield Zamazenta: 175-207 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 271-319 (75.9 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Garganacl: 272-324 (67.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Glimmora: 232-274 (75.5 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 594-698 (208.4 - 244.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Heatran: 404-476 (104.6 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 732-864 (183 - 216%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Manaphy: 211-250 (61.8 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Cornerstone: 492-582 (163.4 - 193.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 246-291 (81.7 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom: 234-276 (59.6 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 512-606 (159.5 - 188.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 350-414 (68 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 231-273 (68.1 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Post-Dauntless Shield Zamazenta: 189-223 (58.1 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Post-Dauntless Shield Zamazenta: 175-207 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ceruledge: 442-522 (124.8 - 147.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 466-550 (122.6 - 144.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 384-452 (121.9 - 143.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 274-324 (72.4 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 116+ Def Hatterene: 155-183 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 143-169 (44.9 - 53.1%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Iron Moth: 156-184 (51.8 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ribombee: 138-163 (52.8 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 368-434 (89.5 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Slowking-Galar: 434-512 (110.1 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 210-248 (65.4 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 187-221 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 466-550 (122.6 - 144.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 384-452 (121.9 - 143.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 274-324 (72.4 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 116+ Def Hatterene: 155-183 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 143-169 (44.9 - 53.1%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Iron Moth: 156-184 (51.8 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ribombee: 138-163 (52.8 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 368-434 (89.5 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Slowking-Galar: 434-512 (110.1 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 210-248 (65.4 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 187-221 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Amoonguss: 280-330 (64.8 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 362-426 (95.2 - 112.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 296-350 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 296-350 (82.4 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Enamorus: 382-450 (132.1 - 155.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 592-700 (140.9 - 166.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 226-266 (60.9 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 226-266 (52 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 116+ Def Hatterene: 120-142 (37.8 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 111-131 (34.9 - 41.1%) -- 72.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 156-184 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kommo-o: 236-278 (81 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Kommo-o: 158-186 (54.2 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 416-492 (130.4 - 154.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 440-520 (115.1 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 292-348 (76.4 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Cornerstone: 328-388 (108.9 - 128.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 164-194 (54.4 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ribombee: 215-254 (82.3 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 310-366 (90.9 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom: 312-368 (79.5 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 136 HP / 0 Def Ting-Lu: 236-278 (48.6 - 57.3%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 234-276 (45.5 - 53.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 326-384 (101.5 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 290-342 (75.5 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 362-426 (95.2 - 112.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 296-350 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 296-350 (82.4 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Enamorus: 382-450 (132.1 - 155.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 592-700 (140.9 - 166.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 226-266 (60.9 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 226-266 (52 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 116+ Def Hatterene: 120-142 (37.8 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 111-131 (34.9 - 41.1%) -- 72.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 156-184 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kommo-o: 236-278 (81 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Kommo-o: 158-186 (54.2 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 416-492 (130.4 - 154.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 440-520 (115.1 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 292-348 (76.4 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Cornerstone: 328-388 (108.9 - 128.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 164-194 (54.4 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ribombee: 215-254 (82.3 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 310-366 (90.9 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom: 312-368 (79.5 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 136 HP / 0 Def Ting-Lu: 236-278 (48.6 - 57.3%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 234-276 (45.5 - 53.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 326-384 (101.5 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 290-342 (75.5 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This combination of Guts-boosted Drain Punch, Knock Off, and Ice Punch 2HKOs every Pokemon in the tier except for Alomomola (3HKO'd by Drain Punch, hates losing HDB or Leftovers to Knock Off), Full Defensive Clefable (4HKO'd with a microscopic chance to 3HKO by Ice Punch, hates losing Leftovers to Knock Off), Full Defensive Corviknight (3HKO'd by Drain Punch, hates losing item to Knock Off, cannot Roost in front of Conkeldurr as Corvinight outspeeds and will be OHKO'd by Drain Punch if it loses its Flying-type), Dondozo (252 HP/4 Def EV variant is 3HKO'd, 252 HP/252+ Def variant is 4HKO'd by Drain Punch, hates losing item to Knock Off), Hatterene (Full-powered Knock Off does a minimum of 44.9% and a maximum of 57.7% depending on the set, so there is a small chance to 2HKO Hatterene with the combination of Knock Off and Ice Punch, with that chance being near certain with a little chip damage) and Toxapex (4HKO'd by Drain Punch/Knock Off Combination, hates losing item to Knock Off).
Conkeldurr Set Breakdown Continued
Only six Pokemon in OU can (in some cases shakily) avoid a 2HKO from Guts-Boosted Conkeldurr's STAB Drain Punch, Knock Off, or Ice Punch. This means that out of the 38 OU/BL Pokemon, a little over 84% of the entire tier's lineup is either OHKO'd or 2HKO'd by Guts Conkeldurr's Drain Punch, Knock Off, Ice Punch combination. That's not all though -
- In addition to Conkeldurr's insane offensive presence, Defog allows Conkeldurr to clear hazards while Knock Off provides fantastic coverage with STAB Drain Punch (which provides extra longevity in addition to Leftovers) and handles the everpresent Gholdengo (as Gholdengo has the potential to be OHKO'd by Knock Off).
- Conkeldurr lacks Iron Hands's Ground-type weakness, meaning that Pokemon like Garchomp, Great Tusk, Landorus-T, and Offensive Ting-Lu switching in is nowhere near as threatening.
- Conkeldurr's 105/95/65 bulk is serviceable (especially on the physical side), and with the EVs in the set above it reaches 411/226/166 bulk, more than enough to tank common hits - while also resisting crucial attacks like Kingambit's Supreme Overlord STAB Sucker Punch (which at five allies fainted only 5HKOs, and +2 five allies fainted only has a 59% chance to 2HKO), Rock Slide/Stone Edge, and U-Turn spam.
- Conkeldurr's access to Tera is great as it can utilize multiple types depending on the variant you're running - Tera Dark provides a damage boost to Knock Off while giving Conkeldurr a Psychic immunity and a Ghost resistance (plus maintains its Dark resistance), Tera Fairy maintains both Conkeldurr's Dark/Bug resistances along with giving it a new Fighting resistance and a Dragon immunity, Tera Poison allows Conkeldurr to become a Toxic Spikes absorber while gaining immunity to being poisoned plus resistances to Fairy/Poison/Fighting/Grass type attacks (while keeping its U-Turn resistance).
Closing Thoughts + Other Options
Conkeldurr has other offensive options as well if you're not feeling like Ice Punch is working well for you; Bulk Up, Close Combat, Counter, Earthquake, Facade, Fire Punch, Mach Punch, Poison Jab, Rock Slide, Stone Edge, Tera Blast (can work very well with a more niche option like Tera Fairy), Taunt, and Thunder Punch are all additional options within Conk's movepool. Flame Orb is always an option as well with high-power moves like STAB Close Combat (which means that several of the previous 3HKOs and 2HKOs turn into 2HKOS and OHKOs) are an option for more offensive Defog variants. Conkeldurr is a flexible and powerful Defog user with a massive offensive presence and can work quite well depending on your team composition - if you're having trouble slotting other hazard removal options onto your team, consider Conkeldurr.
(I hope you all like this brief rundown format, I'm going to try and cover several sub-OU Pokemon more frequently using this format - mostly Pokemon that are UU/RU, my essay-length posts will usually be for Pokemon that are in NU or lower)
Conkeldurr has other offensive options as well if you're not feeling like Ice Punch is working well for you; Bulk Up, Close Combat, Counter, Earthquake, Facade, Fire Punch, Mach Punch, Poison Jab, Rock Slide, Stone Edge, Tera Blast (can work very well with a more niche option like Tera Fairy), Taunt, and Thunder Punch are all additional options within Conk's movepool. Flame Orb is always an option as well with high-power moves like STAB Close Combat (which means that several of the previous 3HKOs and 2HKOs turn into 2HKOS and OHKOs) are an option for more offensive Defog variants. Conkeldurr is a flexible and powerful Defog user with a massive offensive presence and can work quite well depending on your team composition - if you're having trouble slotting other hazard removal options onto your team, consider Conkeldurr.
(I hope you all like this brief rundown format, I'm going to try and cover several sub-OU Pokemon more frequently using this format - mostly Pokemon that are UU/RU, my essay-length posts will usually be for Pokemon that are in NU or lower)
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Ain't no fucking way, the boss has blessed us once again.
I
conk can be pretty scary, especially if played correctly, but his speed make him less good, I tried him with trickroom and it’s… just a ursalana but less good
Been really impressed by Sinischas performance lately. This funny mon can set up and sit on a lot of stuff after the Grassy Seed/Calm mind boost and completely neuters physical checks thanks to Strength Sap and maybe a lucky Macha Gotcha burn.
Waterpon gets checked beautifully, and Kingambit can sort of be put in check if you have preserved your Tera. Great Tusk gets spin blocked and you take very negligible damage from him. It's a very solid mon I have been enjoying a lot though it obviously isn't without flaws (it loses HARD against Zapdos and other stall users/Iron Moth). I wish it learned Leech Seed tbqh...
Btw did yall know magic bounce heals the opponent if you use Strength Sap? Had the weirdest Hatterenne match of my life using Sinischa against it lol
Waterpon gets checked beautifully, and Kingambit can sort of be put in check if you have preserved your Tera. Great Tusk gets spin blocked and you take very negligible damage from him. It's a very solid mon I have been enjoying a lot though it obviously isn't without flaws (it loses HARD against Zapdos and other stall users/Iron Moth). I wish it learned Leech Seed tbqh...
Btw did yall know magic bounce heals the opponent if you use Strength Sap? Had the weirdest Hatterenne match of my life using Sinischa against it lol
i can one-up that: i saw a mon ohko its opponent with strength sap in hackmons cup because the opponent had magic bounce and the user had liquid ooze. second-weirdest interaction i've ever seen (first of course being the time i rolled something with protean and curse, which causes the user to put the curse on itself)
more on-topic, though, i'm glad to see sinistcha coming into its own. i was kinda disappointed when it was first revealed because i thought there was no way it was going to end up being viable here, but it turns out that compressing stab, status spreading, and recovery into the same moveslot is really good
also, hi, i'm back with this month's ou the team! i'd appreciate if it could not be deleted because i actually spend a lot of time on those. i'm likely going to make them less frequently in dlc2 because if i put one out every month the jokes will get stale
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Sorry for bringing Gambit into the convo again, but what set do you consider the most threatening right now? Or at the very least, what set do you prefer running in your teams? I'm asking this cause at the start of this gen the most popular set was probably the classic SD + 2 STABs and Sucker Punch, but now we have a bazillion sets ranging from Tera Blast with Tera Fairy and Flying, Tera Fire to eat Will-O-Wisp, Low Kick with no Iron Head, Air Balloon, Lefties and even fricking Mental Herb. Also, what about the EVs? Do you prefer the bulky max HP/max Atk variant, the max Speed variant, the 200 Speed one to outspeed other Gambits or do you have some other specific EV spread on that thing?
For threat level, max speed is the most threatening only because it outspeeds and snipes ID Corv. You have to run a shitton of EVs on Corv to even have a chance of clicking ID before taking a +2 Kowtow Cleave to the face. Black Glasses + Supreme overlord raises its damage output quite a bit.
In terms of personal preference, Lefties bulky Gambit I'd say is the most consistent because it can check Dengo and Pult throughout a match and has more "general" utility with defensive Tera + Sucker Punch to check key threats. That's still my go to set when teambuilding, as I find it much harder to sweep with Gambit compared to making use of its defensive qualities.
Not the most threatening set on Gambit, but I've had fun with thunder wave on it. The main reason why is that when you come into a pokemon that is threatened by gambit, the opponent is forced to switch to not be set up fooder and lose the game. Therefore, it's pretty easy to get a thunder wave off and cripple the kingambit counter, unless they are tusk. Also, the suprise factor is pretty funny.
For best set, tera fighting is a set I believe is underated, as if the opposing gambit is untera'd, you destroy them with brick break, (Ignore that the opposing gambit will probably tera flying/fairy and you then loose the game.) which gives team support against veil teams, while not being the worst defensive type, due to most of its weaknesses being resisted by its base type.
I think in terms of sets, I like the classic bulky Kingambit with near max HP and max attack and dual STAB sucker; I personally think it's the most healthy set because it provides decent defensive utility and feels a lot less cheesy.
However, for me at least, the most unhealthy Kingambit set is the max attack and max speed adamant tera fairy blast Kingambit set. This set feels like it genuinely can steal games way more than it should. For example, the Vert rain team that was running around quite a bit during OLT featured this, and it felt really easy to use. The team even featured a thunder wave Zapdos, which really rubs salt in the wound when you can paralyze something and, now, Kingambit actually outspeeds it. This isn't even for mons with middling speed either; if a Dragapult got thunder waved, it would need to be timid or jolly to outspeed the Kingambit's effectively 398 base speed stat.
I just wanted to end this post by saying that while I do think Kingambit can be uncompetitive in some cases, we have other mons to worry about, at least in my opinion.
This is at least 50% of my reason for hating kingambit: using it on my teams always feels like everybody else is prepared for the set I'm using, but whenever I run into it, it's running the exact set that beats my team. I've experimented with TB Fairy, Tera Fighting Low Kick, and Leftovers (why do people call them lefties? it only saves 2 letters on this 9-letter word). TB Fairy with 252hp/252atk is the best imo
Don't worry man. Imprison Transform Smeargle with tera beats Kingambit trust
My source: I made it the fuck up
maybe they're all using speech-to-text. it saves a whole syllable
my personal gambit of choice right now is none of them because i'm playing uubers and there's no fucking gambit baby!! but before i decided to stop laddering until dlc2, i was running bulky tera fairy tera blast, with 4 speed to speed-creep uninvested childish gambitos. i was considering min speed instead to cover trick room teams, but trick room hasn't been something you're obligated to prepare for since approximately one and a half pandemics ago
You know, I've thought about it for a while and I believe the reason why this generation has so many bans or 'overpowered' pokemon is a combination of power creep and anti-power creep. Sure, we have stuff like chi yu and flutter mane which are insanely powerful, but the returning pokemon have also been severly nerfed. Just look at lando-t, it would absolutely be a lot better if it retained the tools it had before in gen 8 and most likely not have almost fallen to uu. The new pokemon haven't been overwhelmingly better than additions in previous gens, remember in gen 8 when we got spectrier and dracovish? If you think palafin had absurd power, just calc dracovish fishious rend. (Tbh, I know that the bulk up taunt set was what truly broke palafin, but this is more to be a power comparison.) Something like urshifu rapid strike could have been balanced if other pokemon had their full movesets (I'm basing this off N-Dex, which while it isn't the best measurement on brokeness, should be used as a tertiary arguement, which is why I considered adding roaring moon to the list, but decided against it because it is banned in N-Dex.) I'm not saying we should unban these mons that were banned in Gen 9, at least until we properly assess if they would be too much for the tier, but it shows how something that was definetely broken, is not in another metagame.
Overall, if game freak hadn't fucked multiple pokemon to the moon and back several times (blissey would like to speak with management about their toxic behaviour), the metagame could have been a lot more balanced.
Overall, if game freak hadn't fucked multiple pokemon to the moon and back several times (blissey would like to speak with management about their toxic behaviour), the metagame could have been a lot more balanced.
About urshifu rs, he is too strong because of tera, sd, and because of the missing mons (tapu). I don't think that the other pokemon movepools change anything, except the missing scald on pex.
Palafin is way better than dracovish because of speed, jet punch and bulk up. Flutter Mane, Iron Bundle, Chi-Yu and Shed Tail are far more broken than any gen8 mon or move (at least Spectrier had almost no coverage).
The power creep is really really here, and is very important.
However, I admit that the nerfs of old mons make it even worse, but giving back the moves wouldn't completely fix the meta, even if some moves would help, especially on Lando-T.
In the process of teambuilding, how often do y'all look at lower tier mons for checks to specific threats? I like doing it often because, even if I don't find anything worth using, I look at potential jank targets to try to mess with in the future. Most of that jank doesn't pan out but sometimes you strike gold
pretty much never, since the last time I used the GOAT (sableye) it died a horrible death and got covered in ghold coins
Typically I tend to not really delve outside of anything in the current VR, though this can definitely encompass lower tier threats.
Recently I've been having fun with Tauros-Paldea-Blaze, Sinistcha, Okidogi and Fezandipiti, all having a somewhat unique defensive profile that deals with certain meta threats quite well.
Welcome to the Darkrai report for week 2 of OUPL.
First of all, we have two Darkrai used in week 2, out of eight players. This is obviously not a massive sample size at all. You obviously can't read into the usage rate much, because at this point people are gonna expect Darkrai and are building with it in mind — the natural adaptation is to just not bring Darkrai and render that tech useless. So in this isolated environment, the fact that Darkrai's usage rate has dropped off is largely irrelevant.
We see a decent amount of anti-Darkrai mons in use this week, with two Alolan Muks and a lot of Ting-Lu across the board. I think Ting-Lu is very good in general, especially in a meta with no Gliscor, but I have to imagine Muk is a Darkrai-specific tech, as nobody I could recall outside of the Darkrai slot brought it this week. It resists Dark Pulse/is neutral to Focus Blast and has very strong special defense.
This is something I wish I would have covered in week 1: the anti-Darkrai building. I would go back and cover it again but replays are goobed.
What have we learned from this?
Ultimately, this is a very small sample size that we're working with here, in an environment where everybody is hyper-aware of the existence of Darkrai in the tier and is building to deal with it. This is distinct from, say, a ladder experience where you might just load any old team and run into Darkrai.
That said, from this sample of gameplay we've seen against OU mons, I don't believe Darkrai is obviously, egregiously broken. It's certainly not a Chi-Yu where it just clicks one move and overwhelms resists, because its STAB is Dark Pulse. It has a mediocre matchup against metagame staples like Great Tusk, Zamazenta, and Ting-Lu, and hates taking U-Turns from things like Dragapult. Relying on Focus Blast to hit a lot of Dark-types also really, really stinks. I also want to note that not a single person used Hypnosis, probably because you don't want to miss Hypnosis in a Bo1 team tournament — if it broke into ladder it might be more relevant, but it's honestly a niche move in general.
This is not to say that it is not strong - it is. Darkrai has a great speed tier that outruns things like Ribombee and Meowscarada, tying neutral Dragapult as well. It's robust enough to switch hard into strong-ish attacks like Zapdos Hurricane and strike back. And it's exerted an obvious influence on teambuilding here, with many players in the suspect slot building around its presence.
The next two weeks will feature Mr. Surging Strikes himself, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike. Very interested to see how this one turns out.
First of all, we have two Darkrai used in week 2, out of eight players. This is obviously not a massive sample size at all. You obviously can't read into the usage rate much, because at this point people are gonna expect Darkrai and are building with it in mind — the natural adaptation is to just not bring Darkrai and render that tech useless. So in this isolated environment, the fact that Darkrai's usage rate has dropped off is largely irrelevant.
Taka vs. HYpertonix: Taka brings Darkrai (later revealed to be Boots), and leads with it into HYper's Heatran. Taka immediately switches out into their own Heatran. The game progresses: on turn 29, Darkrai comes back in on HYper's now paralyzed half-health Heatran, Nasty Plots, and kills it with Dark Pulse. HYper brings in Dragapult, chipping Darkrai for half with a U-Turn. This brings in Zapdos, which is swiftly sacrificed to bring in Dragapult once again, which forces out Darkrai. Darkrai is sacked to one more U-Turn down the line, but Taka wins in the end thanks to having more mons left.
MAVERICK SHOOTERS vs. Savouras: No Darkrai. Of note, Savouras brought Alolan Muk and Galarian Weezing, which are difficult for Darkrai to break.
Quaze (unluckness) vs. Lily (Togedemaru): Lily brings Darkrai on a fat hazard stacking team. Notably, Quaze has brought Ting-Lu and Alolan Muk, both of which are relatively difficult to defeat for Darkrai. On turn 20, Darkrai comes in to take revenge for her fallen Tornadus, and clicks Knock Off (!) as Quaze switches into Alolan Muk, removing its Leftovers. Darkrai immediately leaves the field the next turn. Later, during a Ting-Lu/Zapdos stalemate, Lily switches Ting-Lu hard into Darkrai, taking a Hurricane to the face for 62% and getting confused. Nevertheless, Darkrai fights through to Dark Pulse and finish off the 23% Zapdos. Quaze's Boots Iron Moth comes out, and the Darkrai runs. At this point Lily has a substantial advantage because of how much stuff is on the floor for Quaze. Quaze's Moth comes out late and attempts to make a comeback, taking down Ting-Lu: Lily sacrifices Darkrai for chip, doing 45% before dying. The Moth is stopped by Tera Water Hatterene's Psyshock and Lily wins.
Maxouille vs. mimilimi: No Darkrai. Maxouille notably brought Ting-Lu, Enamorus, Kingambit, and Zamazenta, all of which make life difficult for Darkrai.
MAVERICK SHOOTERS vs. Savouras: No Darkrai. Of note, Savouras brought Alolan Muk and Galarian Weezing, which are difficult for Darkrai to break.
Quaze (unluckness) vs. Lily (Togedemaru): Lily brings Darkrai on a fat hazard stacking team. Notably, Quaze has brought Ting-Lu and Alolan Muk, both of which are relatively difficult to defeat for Darkrai. On turn 20, Darkrai comes in to take revenge for her fallen Tornadus, and clicks Knock Off (!) as Quaze switches into Alolan Muk, removing its Leftovers. Darkrai immediately leaves the field the next turn. Later, during a Ting-Lu/Zapdos stalemate, Lily switches Ting-Lu hard into Darkrai, taking a Hurricane to the face for 62% and getting confused. Nevertheless, Darkrai fights through to Dark Pulse and finish off the 23% Zapdos. Quaze's Boots Iron Moth comes out, and the Darkrai runs. At this point Lily has a substantial advantage because of how much stuff is on the floor for Quaze. Quaze's Moth comes out late and attempts to make a comeback, taking down Ting-Lu: Lily sacrifices Darkrai for chip, doing 45% before dying. The Moth is stopped by Tera Water Hatterene's Psyshock and Lily wins.
Maxouille vs. mimilimi: No Darkrai. Maxouille notably brought Ting-Lu, Enamorus, Kingambit, and Zamazenta, all of which make life difficult for Darkrai.
We see a decent amount of anti-Darkrai mons in use this week, with two Alolan Muks and a lot of Ting-Lu across the board. I think Ting-Lu is very good in general, especially in a meta with no Gliscor, but I have to imagine Muk is a Darkrai-specific tech, as nobody I could recall outside of the Darkrai slot brought it this week. It resists Dark Pulse/is neutral to Focus Blast and has very strong special defense.
This is something I wish I would have covered in week 1: the anti-Darkrai building. I would go back and cover it again but replays are goobed.
What have we learned from this?
Ultimately, this is a very small sample size that we're working with here, in an environment where everybody is hyper-aware of the existence of Darkrai in the tier and is building to deal with it. This is distinct from, say, a ladder experience where you might just load any old team and run into Darkrai.
That said, from this sample of gameplay we've seen against OU mons, I don't believe Darkrai is obviously, egregiously broken. It's certainly not a Chi-Yu where it just clicks one move and overwhelms resists, because its STAB is Dark Pulse. It has a mediocre matchup against metagame staples like Great Tusk, Zamazenta, and Ting-Lu, and hates taking U-Turns from things like Dragapult. Relying on Focus Blast to hit a lot of Dark-types also really, really stinks. I also want to note that not a single person used Hypnosis, probably because you don't want to miss Hypnosis in a Bo1 team tournament — if it broke into ladder it might be more relevant, but it's honestly a niche move in general.
This is not to say that it is not strong - it is. Darkrai has a great speed tier that outruns things like Ribombee and Meowscarada, tying neutral Dragapult as well. It's robust enough to switch hard into strong-ish attacks like Zapdos Hurricane and strike back. And it's exerted an obvious influence on teambuilding here, with many players in the suspect slot building around its presence.
The next two weeks will feature Mr. Surging Strikes himself, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike. Very interested to see how this one turns out.
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