Project SV OU - Victim of the Week (Week 66: Bulky DD Roaring Moon)

[Mugenman88]

COUNTER



Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Bold Nature
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
- Chilling Water
- Haze
- Toxic
- Recover

Literally sits on this Cinderace forever and is free to Toxic it or poke it down with Chilling Water at it's leisure

252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 51-60 (16.7 - 19.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 51-60 (16.7 - 19.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Black Sludge recovery

0 SpA Toxapex Chilling Water vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cinderace: 84-102 (27.9 - 33.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO

 

[Lectrys]

Check


Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Ghost / Poison / Electric
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Trick
- Will-O-Wisp / Thunder Wave

Thanks to Rotom-W's Choice Scarf making it outspeed Cinderace, Cinderace needs to Sucker Punch or Hydro Pump OHKOs:

252 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cinderace: 392-464 (130.2 - 154.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Libero Dark Cinderace: 196-232 (65.1 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-Wash: 100-118 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-Wash: 169-201 (70.1 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tera Fire Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-Wash: 113-134 (46.8 - 55.6%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO

If Cinderace Sucker Punches twice in a row, Cinderace can't 2HKO and gets 2HKOed back.

The Tera is just here on Rotom-W to try to get fewer and/or rarer weaknesses or handle (Tera Normal) Dragonite better.

 

[lolgod3]

252+ Atk Choice Band Floatzel Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cinderace in Rain: 354-416 (117.6 - 138.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cinderace (Dark) in Rain: 528-622 (175.4 - 206.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (rain not needed here)
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel in Rain: 72-86 (23.1 - 27.6%) -- 74.4% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 171-202 (54.9 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 292-345 (93.8 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

I wish I could say it is a counter, but sadly 1 gunk shot likely results in a KO. Therefore it is a CHECK
(Was gonna do barra but wanna give floaty boi a shoutout)
Floatzel @ Choice Band
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Ice Spinner
- Wave Crash
- Crunch

pratik2007 pointed out that floatzel needs rain to beat ace, so i'll have to use barra then
Barraskewda @ Choice Band
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Close Combat
- Aqua Jet
- Crunch

barra outspeeds ace and liquidation is a clean KO, sucker punch does 70% max and aqua jet deals 87%. If worried about libero shenanigans, just tera water and aqua jet for clean KO bypassing sucker punch (if already different type, liquidation or CC can kill) CHECK

 

[Venduria]

Slowbro @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off
- Surf
- Stored Power

Counter

252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 123-145 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- 75.5% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 144-170 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 61-72 (15.4 - 18.2%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Tera Fire Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 82-97 (20.8 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

4 SpA Slowbro Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cinderace: 248-294 (82.3 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Tera Water Slowbro Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cinderace: 332-392 (110.2 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 4 SpA Slowbro Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cinderace: 372-438 (123.5 - 145.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Regenerator + Slack Off means you can sit on him forever, minor chip means you OHKO with Surf, or you OHKO after a Calm Mind. Possible sweep opportunities. Item and Stored Power can be swapped for something else for better matchups elsewhere, like HDB Future Sight or Lefties CM Store Power.

 

[Pando067]

Counter

252+Def Toxapex can tank pyro balls, high jump kicks, gunk shots, and u-turns for days. Pex takes less than 20% from all cinderace's attacks and can chilling water or surf it back. I have personally experienced being walled by pex. Pex can also toxic cinderace and pex could sit there recovering forever. It could also switch to get regenerator recovery and then come back in.

Cinderace damage:
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 57-67 (18.7 - 22%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 48-57 (15.7 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 48-57 (15.7 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Libero Cinderace U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 28-33 (9.2 - 10.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Pex damage:
0 SpA Toxapex Chilling Water vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Cinderace: 84-98 (27.9 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Toxapex Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Cinderace: 150-176 (49.8 - 58.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Mugenman88]

Counter

252+Def Toxapex can tank pyro balls, high jump kicks, gunk shots, and u-turns for days. Pex takes less than 20% from all cinderace's attacks and can chilling water or surf it back. I have personally experienced being walled by pex. Pex can also toxic cinderace and pex could sit there recovering forever. It could also switch to get regenerator recovery and then come back in.

Cinderace damage:
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 57-67 (18.7 - 22%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 48-57 (15.7 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 48-57 (15.7 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Libero Cinderace U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 28-33 (9.2 - 10.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Pex damage:
0 SpA Toxapex Chilling Water vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Cinderace: 84-98 (27.9 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Toxapex Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Cinderace: 150-176 (49.8 - 58.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You should probably look back in the thread in the future before doing your submission, I already submitted toxapex

 

[Novax]

252+ Atk Choice Band Floatzel Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cinderace in Rain: 354-416 (117.6 - 138.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cinderace (Dark) in Rain: 528-622 (175.4 - 206.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (rain not needed here)
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel in Rain: 72-86 (23.1 - 27.6%) -- 74.4% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 171-202 (54.9 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 292-345 (93.8 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

I wish I could say it is a counter, but sadly 1 gunk shot likely results in a KO. Therefore it is a CHECK
(Was gonna do barra but wanna give floaty boi a shoutout)
Floatzel @ Choice Band
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Ice Spinner
- Wave Crash
- Crunch

Floatzel really isnt even a check
Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if, when Pokémon A is given a free switch into Pokémon B, Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.
Here it always needs rain to KO Cinderace , without which it loses .
252+ Atk Choice Band Floatzel Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 236-278 (78.4 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[1LDK]

COUNTER


Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Water/Steel (if you're too worried about Gunk Shot, but you don't need tera for this)
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock/Spikes
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast

Your everyday Tankchomp, rocky helmet + rough skin means no sucker punch funnys

252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Garchomp: 83-98 (19.7 - 23.3%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Garchomp: 97-115 (23 - 27.3%) -- 63.6% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Garchomp: 83-98 (19.7 - 23.3%) -- possible 5HKO

0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cinderace: 338-402 (112.2 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Basically Cinderace has to run and watch how you get more spikes for free, and if he decides to change them, then he is literally dead

 

[Pando067]

You should probably look back in the thread in the future before doing your submission, I already submitted toxapex

whoops, my bad :P

 

[Wooloomax]

Counter.
Surprised no one has nominated Skeledirge.

Skeledirge @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Shadow Ball
- Slack Off
- Will-O-Wisp

I have used Dirge against multiple Cinderace. It's by far one of the most reliable Cinderace counters.
Dirge physically defensive oriented stats, plus fire/ghost type resists Pyro ball and Gunk shot, Ghost grants immunity to High jump kick. Sponging all these moves allows Dirge to slack off on Sucker punch without pressure. Also Dirge is one the best U-turn scouters as it resist bug times 4.
Terrifyingly enough Cinderace has access to Swords Dance in gen 9 allowing to bluff a switch in to set and muscle up his way. However Skeledirge doesn't care about swords dance or bulk ups because of Unaware.
Skeledirge can easily outlast Cinderace with reliable recovery, making it more suitable than other counters with limited hp.

252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 65-77 (15.8 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace U-turn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 19-22 (4.6 - 5.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 65-77 (15.8 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO

 

[lolgod3]

Floatzel really isnt even a check
Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if, when Pokémon A is given a free switch into Pokémon B, Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.
Here it always needs rain to KO Cinderace , without which it loses .
252+ Atk Choice Band Floatzel Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 236-278 (78.4 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

ah, alright. Replaced it with barra that outspeeds and KOs

 

[Milo]

We have 1 Check submission so voting will be merged!

Voting is up! Ends Tuesday!

View attachment 486660
seriously tusk's full art card fucks
Great Tusk @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Body Press / Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
Status: Counter
Even with the power of Tera Fire, Cinderace can only hope for a small chance of a 3HKO with Pyro Ball against Grandpa Tusk while it's holding Leftovers, who can easily OHKO back with Earthquake. While it doesn't OHKO if Cinderace has Libero'd into a Normal- or Dark-type, the funny bunny is still dented pretty badly by Earthquake and gets murked by Body Press if it's being run. Just don't set up rocks against it.
You can also run Rocky Helmet to get U-Turn chip damage, but Tera Fire Pyro Ball becomes a guaranteed 3HKO.

252 Atk Tera Fire Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 146-172 (33.6 - 39.6%) -- 19.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (guaranteed 3HKO without Leftovers)
0 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fire Cinderace: 344-408 (114.2 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Def Great Tusk Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cinderace (Normal-type): 368-434 (122.2 - 144.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

reserving dondozo



Dondozo @ Leftovers
Level: 100
Careful Nature
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Liquidation
- Body Press / Sleep Talk
- Protect / Rest
- Curse
Status : Counter
The fact that this fish doesnt even need the defense EVs shows the fact that it hard walls cinderace
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dondozo: 160-189 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
basically a 4hko , and we can always curse + rest on cinderace .
0 Atk Dondozo Liquidation vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 234-276 (72.8 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

fishy wishy (Alomomola) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Chilling Water
- Whirlpool

Counter! It is a hard counter as it can take anything from cinderace, whirlpool it or chilling water to nullify its offensive presence and force a lot of chip on it, it has to u-turn out and even with a poison alomomola still has 16pp of wishes and regenerator so it can constantly pivot in and out of cinderace. It also doesnt mind hazards what so ever with the heavy duty boots

252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 151-178 (28.2 - 33.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after poison damage
252 Atk Libero Cinderace U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 88-105 (16.4 - 19.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after poison damage
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 75-89 (14 - 16.6%) -- 16.7% chance to 4HKO after poison damage

Even with gunk shot doing 33% + 12% poisons it can still regen it off and can wish off the attacks while being able to 1v1 it infinitely

COUNTER



Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Bold Nature
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
- Chilling Water
- Haze
- Toxic
- Recover

Literally sits on this Cinderace forever and is free to Toxic it or poke it down with Chilling Water at it's leisure

252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 51-60 (16.7 - 19.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 51-60 (16.7 - 19.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Black Sludge recovery

0 SpA Toxapex Chilling Water vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cinderace: 84-102 (27.9 - 33.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO

Slowbro @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off
- Surf
- Stored Power

Counter

252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 123-145 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- 75.5% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 144-170 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 61-72 (15.4 - 18.2%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Tera Fire Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 82-97 (20.8 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

4 SpA Slowbro Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cinderace: 248-294 (82.3 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Tera Water Slowbro Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cinderace: 332-392 (110.2 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 4 SpA Slowbro Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cinderace: 372-438 (123.5 - 145.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Regenerator + Slack Off means you can sit on him forever, minor chip means you OHKO with Surf, or you OHKO after a Calm Mind. Possible sweep opportunities. Item and Stored Power can be swapped for something else for better matchups elsewhere, like HDB Future Sight or Lefties CM Store Power.

Counter

252+Def Toxapex can tank pyro balls, high jump kicks, gunk shots, and u-turns for days. Pex takes less than 20% from all cinderace's attacks and can chilling water or surf it back. I have personally experienced being walled by pex. Pex can also toxic cinderace and pex could sit there recovering forever. It could also switch to get regenerator recovery and then come back in.

Cinderace damage:
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 57-67 (18.7 - 22%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 48-57 (15.7 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 48-57 (15.7 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Libero Cinderace U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 28-33 (9.2 - 10.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Pex damage:
0 SpA Toxapex Chilling Water vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Cinderace: 84-98 (27.9 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Toxapex Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Cinderace: 150-176 (49.8 - 58.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

COUNTER


Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Water/Steel (if you're too worried about Gunk Shot, but you don't need tera for this)
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock/Spikes
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast

Your everyday Tankchomp, rocky helmet + rough skin means no sucker punch funnys

252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Garchomp: 83-98 (19.7 - 23.3%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Garchomp: 97-115 (23 - 27.3%) -- 63.6% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Garchomp: 83-98 (19.7 - 23.3%) -- possible 5HKO

0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cinderace: 338-402 (112.2 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Basically Cinderace has to run and watch how you get more spikes for free, and if he decides to change them, then he is literally dead

Counter.
Surprised no one has nominated Skeledirge.
View attachment 487224
Skeledirge @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Shadow Ball
- Slack Off
- Will-O-Wisp

I have used Dirge against multiple Cinderace. It's by far one of the most reliable Cinderace counters.
Dirge physically defensive oriented stats, plus fire/ghost type resists Pyro ball and Gunk shot, Ghost grants immunity to High jump kick. Sponging all these moves allows Dirge to slack off on Sucker punch without pressure. Also Dirge is one the best U-turn scouters as it resist bug times 4.
Terrifyingly enough Cinderace has access to Swords Dance in gen 9 allowing to bluff a switch in to set and muscle up his way. However Skeledirge doesn't care about swords dance or bulk ups because of Unaware.
Skeledirge can easily outlast Cinderace with reliable recovery, making it more suitable than other counters with limited hp.

252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 65-77 (15.8 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace U-turn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 19-22 (4.6 - 5.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 65-77 (15.8 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO

Check


Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Ghost / Poison / Electric
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Trick
- Will-O-Wisp / Thunder Wave

Thanks to Rotom-W's Choice Scarf making it outspeed Cinderace, Cinderace needs to Sucker Punch or Hydro Pump OHKOs:

252 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cinderace: 392-464 (130.2 - 154.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Libero Dark Cinderace: 196-232 (65.1 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-Wash: 100-118 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-Wash: 169-201 (70.1 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tera Fire Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-Wash: 113-134 (46.8 - 55.6%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO

If Cinderace Sucker Punches twice in a row, Cinderace can't 2HKO and gets 2HKOed back.

The Tera is just here on Rotom-W to try to get fewer and/or rarer weaknesses or handle (Tera Normal) Dragonite better.

 

[1LDK]

and

 

[Lectrys]

(Thank goodness for an offensive, if soft, counter that also isn't a Water-type for once.)

 

[Bice]

because it can pretty much deny all forms of Cinderace, even the rare Swords Dance set
for similar reasons, watch out for Electro Ball tho

 

[Novax]

,

 

[Joseph Gomes]

An offensive counter that can handle all versions of Cinderace easily . If Cinderace isn't fire type, it can burn Cinderace with Wisp if Ace decides to stay in (which will cripple Ace for the rest of the match). If Cinderace is tera fire, not even Band Sucker Punch will 2ho (and wasting Sucker Punch PP is super easy thanks to Slack off and Wisp)

Cinderace will be forced to bring in a special attacker with U-turn, since Dirge can just burn physical switch ins with Wisp, or boost special attack for free with Torch Song. Doesn't even need to waste Tera for this.

 

[Mugenman88]

 

[SunCooled]

Don't think Great Tusk counts as a true counter. No recovery + gets 3/4hko'd; you have max three switch ins to Pyro Ball (while Ace u-turns out on you anyway) before you can't switch in any more. As a check, sure, valid. Counter, by definition, no. Tusk can only switch in on Ace limited times.

Counter: Wooloomax
Check: Lectrys

Also, I think we should be assigning a 'winner' for both checks and counters. Too many sets that should be submitted as checks are being submitted as counters to have better odds at being voted for. After all, who is going to vote for a check over a counter if there is only one set chosen between both?

 

[Milo]

Congratulations to Bice for winning last Week of Victim of the Week!

We will be taking a 1 week hiatus, apologies.​

 

[SetsuSetsuna]

Thank you very much to Milo for hosting Victim of the Week. I will be taking on the project for the next couple of weeks. If you are interested in hosting this project please shoot me a message on my wall or on PS as SetsuStsna. In the meantime I have added all the past winning checks and counters to the Hall of Fame on the first post.

For Week 7 of Victim of the Week we have... Curse Garganacl!


Garganacl @ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
-Curse
- Salt Cure
- Recover
- Earthquake​

One of the best defensive Pokemon in Generation 9, SpDef Garganacl is a threat in the OU meta with its signature move Salt Cure. The combination of Earthquake + Curse and Tera Water allows it to turn the tables on Covert Cloak Gholdengo. Purifying Salt lets it take on Dragapult's Shadow Ball and block status moves. What Pokemon are able to handle Garganacl?

Submissions end of Tuesday February 21st at 23:59 EST
Remember to specify if your submission is a counter or a check ​

 

[xOliver]

What better counter to Garganacl than Garganacl? By swapping the tera type to ghost, which admittedly isn't optimal to waste your tera type for one exact pokemon, it is able to take care of Garganacl completely. Sure curse cuts your hp, sure salt cure chip will "kill" you eventually, but curse doing 25% of the opponent's health a turn + salt cure doing 1/8th health shuts down Gargancl outside of hard swapping or spamming recover (Which is good :)).

Garganacl @ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Salt Cure
- Recover
- Avalanche


Another counter is Brambleghast. Now, personally, I think it's a pretty stupid-looking pokemon and outside of this very niche role I don't think it can do anything else in ou besides this.

Brambleghast @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Wind Rider
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strength Sap
- Curse
- Leaf Storm
- Disable

The entire setup is Curse>Strength Sap>Leaf Storm. Leaf Storming TWICE, with curse, (should) secure a kill with ease.
You could also run specs lol
252+ SpA Choice Specs Brambleghast Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl: 390-462 (96.7 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

That's basically it to be honest this took about 5 minutes of thinking while I was cleaning my room lol.

 

[1LDK]

HARD CHECK ALMOST COUNTER

Greninja @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Dark Pulse

Gren cannot enter on a salt cure, but basically deletes it from the earth with grass knot, and, once changed into grass, he wont get super chipped by salt cure properties
252 SpA Choice Specs Protean Greninja Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl: 386-456 (95.7 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
and since water is also weak to grass, damage roll doesn't change

 

[Lectrys]

Hard Check (Almost Counter)


Meowscarada @ Choice Band
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flower Trick
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Play Rough / Sucker Punch

So Meowscarada doesn't give a hoot about whether Garganacl is Tera Water or hasn't Terastallized yet; it just switches into a Garganacl attack, not care at all about Garganacl Cursing up because Flower Trick ignores defensive boosts, and OHKO-2HKO it:

252 Atk Choice Band Meowscarada Flower Trick vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Garganacl on a critical hit: 366-432 (90.8 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Garganacl Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 48-57 (16.3 - 19.4%) -- possible 6HKO
+1 0 Atk Garganacl Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 72-85 (24.5 - 29%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Garganacl Salt Cure vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 58-70 (19.7 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Salt Cure
+1 0 Atk Garganacl Salt Cure vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 87-103 (29.6 - 35.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Salt Cure

Oh man, if it turns out that Garganacl is Iron Defense-Body Press instead, though....

 

[1234hjkl]

Arboliva - Counter

Arboliva @ Leftovers
Ability: Seed Sower
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Tera Blast
- Earth Power
- Giga Drain

Arboliva doesn't care about anything the salt mon does and if it attacks on the switch in, the it gets grassy field boosting it's recovery and giving it a boosted Giga Drain.