SPOILERS! Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl Data Dumps

Now that Super Luck shares Compound Eyes's out-of-battle effect (hopefully that Gen 8 update has been retained), Brilliant Diamond players can catch a Super Luck Murkrow at Eterna Forest and start finding hold items from Wild Pokémon easier like Moon Stone from Clefairy, Metronome from Kricketot and Lucky Egg from Chansey. I imagine TM Thief is still at Eterna City, too, so that makes things pretty convenient.

Shining Pearl players...just try to catch a special Super Luck Absol from the Grand Underground, I guess. The other options are all post-game/post-Natdex (sigh Yanma...) unless there's a way before then to get Hidden Abilities.
 
So uhh, 10 years ago (I feel old) on Serebii we attempted a HGSS challenge run called "super hard mode" which I want to attempt for this game. In retrospect these rules weren't actually "super hard" but are more in line with regular nuzlocke challenges. Since BDSP has very respectable rematches I think it might be a good time to re-attempt this.

Rules

- Standard Nuzlocke. Catch the first Pokémon you see per route. Fainted mons are dead and can never be used again.
- Starter Pokemon is determined by Player ID. Last digit 1-3 is Grass, 4-6 Fire, 7-9 Water. On 0 pick the next number over.
- If you black-out you lose the game.
- Online features are banned.
- Gift Pokemon and NPC trades are okay but count as your one catch per route / city.
- No Pokemarts except to buy Pokeballs.
- No items period besides Pokeballs or when required to progress the plot. No TMs, no healing items etc.
- Battle style "Set"
- Legendary Pokémon must be killed and can not be caught or used (except when required to by the game)
- Pokémon friend mechanics such as Pokemon-Amie or similar Affection features are banned.

I want to add another restriction since XP share is mandatory and I don't want the run trivialized by over-leveling everyone.

- No Pokémon over 500 BST may be used. If you encounter a Pokémon that is 501+ BST or evolves into one that has 501+ BST for your one catch per route you may "re-roll" and find another wild Pokémon. You may use pre-evos of 501+ BST Pokémon but if so they may not evolve.
 
Last edited:
Here's the Pickup table! Dawn Stones will realistically stay fixed at 4% for most of the main story, save a very brief period of 3% from levels 11 to 20. Assuming the Ability still has a 10% activation rate, that's 0.4% or 0.3% per battle!
So, I don't know what the Exp gain ratio is, between always-on Exp share and everything. If we assume 5 battles per level, pickup mon caught at level 5, and a 4% chance of the item you want dropping, you have a 2% chance of the item dropping at least once per level. By level 30(25 levels), 40% chance of one dropping. Level 40, 50% chance total. That's pretty rough. If we up things to 7 battles per level, then it's more like a 50% chance by level 30, 62% by level 40. 10 battles per level, 63% by level 30. So it's definitely possible that you never see a Dawn Stone via Pickup, but you at least have a reasonable shot at seeing one by the time you need it, depending on some exact details of the math.
 
If anyone cared about this at all, now we have the full list of in-game Pokémon; here's everything that has had its type changed to Fairy since Gen 4:-

- Mr. Mime
- Clefairy
- Marill
- Ralts
- Togepi
The Granbull line and Mawile (BD) are present in the Grand Underground. The only other fairy-type change is for the Wigglytuff line, which does not appear to be in BDSP in any form. Same goes for the regional variants of Rapidash, Weezing, and Ninetales.
 
I can't believe they had the opportunity to fix the lack of Fire types with the Grand underground and they locked a lot of them to post game.

As a Torterra/Empoleon enjoyer, I never plan on picking Infernape, and I don't care much for Rapidash, Houndoom, or Magmortar, so I'm shit out of luck. Unless there's others I'm forgetting. I really looking forward to using Camerupt too...

Well I do have Torterra for Steels, and maybe a dark or Ghost type type for those pesky Levitating Bronzors
 
Last edited:
I can't get over how restricted Pokemon options are even with the Underground. Not adding of all of the Platinum Dex is weird, but there's even less Pokemon than Platinum! (I counted 44 from the PreNatDex Underground vs Platinum's 59.)

If anyone cared about this at all, now we have the full list of in-game Pokémon; here's everything that has had its type changed to Fairy since Gen 4:-

- Mr. Mime
- Clefairy
- Marill

- Ralts
- Togepi
The DP dex has more Pokemon of a type that didn't exist yet than Fire!

I already complained about this, but Houndoom and Magby would've been just enough to stop me from complaining about the lack of Fire types if Magby wasn't version exclusive. They knew about the obvious problem, added just enough Pokemon to patch up that problem, then broke it again by making one of them version exclusive!

Since I seem to say they're being faithful almost every other post, I'd like to say this is a wrong way to be faithful.
 
While diggign through the test dump to find the dialog for those new NPCs with the following pokemon because damn it it bugs me now, i saw that bebe's Eevee dialog is indeed the esame post game one
The Amity Square dialog literally updates solely for the eevee line. There's the usual spiel that lists all the other pokemon (including, comically, the national dex pokemon), then a copy of that spiel that adds the Eeveelutions interspersed.


As for the NPCs....I did find the Gastly Hiker from route 209
1877 690 59-msg_r209_mount_iro_01 Have you heard? There are statues that you can dig up from the walls of the Grand Underground. I’d love to see a statue for myself someday.
1878 691 59-msg_r209_mount_iro_02 Oh, that’s a statue! Did you find it underground? I’ve always wanted to see one of these! I’ll give these to you as my way of saying thanks.
1879 692 59-msg_r209_mount_iro_03 There’s an adventure in every statue! There’s a statue in every adventure!

He was helpfully labeled as being on r209
Sadly I couldn't find enough of a reference on the other couple we knew about and the text dump doesnt say what you get (still thinking stickers, personally).



And just for a gee-whiz, you find the Mysterious Shards S & L (the red items that look like flowers) in the underground and they're said to look like Ramanas Flowers so I'm guessing the slate loop is something akin to: Find enough Shards to trade for a Slate to take to the Park
Doesn't seem like the text dump in the first post has all the 1.1 dialog, so I dunno who you'd give them to or anything. I guess someone in the Park building?
 
Just gonna let you down gently and say there will be zero model changes


XY/SM:
1636781210039.png



Legends/BDSP:
1636781234332.png



While I don't expect every model to recieve major updates, it is true that they're being updated, alongside Legends showing off new animations in trailers. Whether BDSP will carry over all the updates in Legends is unknown, but the Shaymin in the event does match up with Legends' model
 
Last edited:
I found this video of a Cynthia fight (might get taken down):


This kinda confirmed what I thought - this dude is on average 4-5 levels above Cynthia...and he would have lost convincingly had he not cheesed this fight with Max Revives and Switch mode. In a shocking twist, I'm actually worried about being under levelled in this game without grinding.

I also don't know what substance there is in the post game that will boost my team's levels high enough to take down Cynthia's last rematch team. This fight and her last rematch are going to be ridiculously hard even if we're ahead of her in levels.

Edit: Also, this video confirms her dangerously good AI, on par with Platinum's. She switches in the middle of battle and pretty much never makes a misplay. Only oversight is her holding Garchomp for last regardless of type advantage.
 
Last edited:
I found this video of a Cynthia fight (might get taken down):


This kinda confirmed what I thought - this dude is on average 4-5 levels above Cynthia...and he would have lost convincingly had he not cheesed this fight with Max Revives and Switch mode. In a shocking twist, I'm actually worried about being under levelled in this game without grinding.

I also don't know what substance there is in the post game that will boost my team's levels high enough to take down Cynthia's last rematch team. This fight and her last rematch are going to be ridiculously hard even if we're ahead of her in levels.

Edit: Also, this video confirms her dangerously good AI, on par with Platinum's. She switches in the middle of battle and pretty much never makes a misplay. Only oversight is her holding Garchomp for last regardless of type advantage.
Entirely possible it was just bad luck on the streamer's part, but I don't think I saw a single affection proc in this entire fight? I think the "____ is awaiting your instructions" is what indicates that affection has begun to take hold, and while seeing that at all does lend credence to simply bad luck, of note is that Magnezone and Honchkrow did not have this message. In fact, despite a message about being worried about battling well, Garchomp doesn't have any messages like above display like this, so it might just be a hardcoded first turn thing for the Cynthia fight. Not entirely sure what to make of all this tbh (I mean they could have modded the affection bonuses out, but then why do some mons not even seem eligible for them in the first place, and is the person that does that kind of thing really the same person that uses items in battle?), I just want to believe affection isn't forced .__.
 
Game Freak is not the problem, the problem is TPC.

Eh, I wouldn't absolve GF. While TPC surely pushes GF, does GF ever push back or do they just go "yeah we can do that" and end up rushing to fulfill a deadline they shouldn't have agreed to?

I definitely wouldn't mind ILCA coming back to work on another remake, and maybe being given more [whatever] to see them experiment with different design spaces in it, mind, but there's quite a leap some folks are making if you catch my drift.

Here's my more exact on this: ILCA likely can't create a full Pokemon game from scrap without several years, likely more years than GF does to make a Pokemon game. Not because they aren't talented, but as many stated this is sort of their first full game they made, and it was still under the watchful eye of a bigger game company who gave them a blueprint to follow.
I wouldn't mind ILCA coming back and helping in developing trainer teams and general development stuff like they have for other games. However, for them to make a game all by themselves? I am a bit iffy on that. And sadly I don't know really a solution: the best would be ILCA promoting a Pokemon game idea to GF, GF approving, and GF giving ILCA the additional staff and resources to make the game. However, at that point GF might as well be in charge of making the game (also, we don't know whether ILCA is interested in making their own Pokemon game; for all we know this experience showed them how complex things are and decide if they were to make a game it would be something their own and thus they own).
GF picked ILCA because they're a small game development company they worked with already so probably knew for this project scope they'd be able to do it and get these games out there. But to make an entirely new Pokemon game, I'm sorry ILCA, but I'd rather another more well known game development company like say Monolith Soft take the reigns.
But if extra help or idea is ever needed from GF or another studio than I think ILCA is a good auxiliary company to bring in.
Also, since ILCA has shown they can at least make a remake, I wouldn't be opposed to them making more Pokemon remakes (with maybe more freedom if they were given strict orders).

I guess what I'm asking here is what some of you think in regards to getting this game if you were to be in a situation like me where:

1. I not only have all the Gen 4 games, but even multiple copies of both Diamond and Pearl
2. I already have a game budget plan for other genres (see me in "Congregation Of The Masses" for more details)

It's your decisions and I don't want to put words in your mouth. But applying those scenario to me and my feelings: skip. Especially if you have the Gen 4 games and a way to play them. Unless you're interested with the rematch teams and Ramanas Park, just wait till Legends for your next Pokemon game purchase. Maybe consider it if you can get it on sale, but in my opinion its not a "must buy".

You know they really should have just placed the evolution items around the map where they are in Platinum, like how they plopped the gracedia's npc down.

Well there's your problem.

Anything from Platinum they added in was because they were kind of forced to.

Well, it is the generation that introduced the lowest amount of Fire-types, with only six (one of them a legendary, another a cross-gen evo, another wasn't a Fire-type back then, and the last one the starter)

And so the obvious solution is to fill out the gap with Fire-types from prior gens. This is not something that they would only be able to do in a third version, as soon as they added in a FIRE-TYPE ELITE FOUR MEMBER and realized they didn't have enough Fire-types they should have thrown in some more in a few places (you're telling me in a coal mine there aren't some Fire-types around? Some who made a lair in Mt. Coronet? Hidden away in Wayward Cave...).

I found this video of a Cynthia fight (might get taken down):


Oh, so they sorta updated Cynthia's DP room with now moving panels. Guess it makes it more visually interesting if they weren't going to include the holographic cubes (still don't know what they had to do with Cynthia).

But sadly this also means no fancy rooms for the other Elite Four members. No rocks & logs for Aaron, no cliffsides for Bertha, no OSHA violating pits of fire-y death for Flint, and no glowing orbs for Lucian. *Sigh*

Empoleon: Gets destroyed by Earthquake

Infernape: Gets destroyed by Earthquake

Torterra: Resists Earthquake

Torterra enjoyers stay winning

ICE BEAM!
 
Empoleon: Gets destroyed by Earthquake

Infernape: Gets destroyed by Earthquake

Torterra: Resists Earthquake

Torterra enjoyers stay winning

I actually mathed this out recently. The average dumb kid's Empoleon eats Garchomp's ass in classic DP because Earthquake doesn't OHKO. Unless Empoleon has a -Def nature or zero EVs in HP for some reason, it's a sure thing at equal level. Never mind that average dumb kid's Empoleon is at least Lv. 70 and randomly EV'd from carrying him the whole game, thus automatically capable of stomaching EQ from a 31 Atk Lv. 66 Garchomp. According to Werster's tables, that Garchomp is also Timid. That pushes the bulk check even lower.

Lvl 66 0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. Lvl 70 84 HP / 84 Def Empoleon: 174-206 (74.3 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 66 0- Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. Lvl 62 84 HP / 84 Def Empoleon: 174-206 (83.6 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Empoleon was never losing before. Nor was Cynthia ever tough.

BDSP gives Garchomp some massive buffs: (1) Jolly nature, (2) Yache Berry, and (3) 252 Atk EVs. I want to make it abundantly clear: BDSP Garchomp is a completely different beast from its predecessor. This thing actually has what it takes to tangle with an Empoleon above its weight class. Even though its level is unchanged, its Attack stat has gone up by 61 points.

Lvl 66 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. Lvl 72 84 HP / 84 Def Empoleon: 204-240 (85 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Lvl 66 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. Lvl 60 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 186-222 (81.9 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 66 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. Lvl 89 0 HP / 0- Def Empoleon: 236-282 (85.5 - 102.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Lvl 75 84 SpA Empoleon Ice Beam vs. Lvl 66 52 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Garchomp: 152-180 (61.5 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 75 252+ SpA Empoleon Ice Beam vs. Lvl 66 52 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Garchomp: 192-226 (77.7 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 75 252+ SpA Empoleon Blizzard vs. Lvl 66 52 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Garchomp: 234-276 (94.7 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

It's not a pretty sight. Empoleon needs some serious bulk investment to survive. With evenly distributed EVs and a neutral nature, Empoleon can be OHKO'd by new Garchomp up to Lv. 72. Even at Lv. 75 with maximum SpA, Empoleon cannot win with Ice Beam—only Blizzard. ILCA actually did gimp Empoleon in this battle. Whereas in classic DP it could reliably tank an EQ and counterattack with an Ice-type move for the win, it cannot do the same in BDSP without a real bulk advantage and a lucky critical hit. In fact, the best move now is to enter Torrent range and speak a prayer over Hydro Pump and its 4/5 hit rate. New Garchomp is a devil, and I hold the memes responsible for it being this way.
 
Last edited:
I like you guys math and all, but this is the part where I come to remind you that the overleveled Empoleon carried from the start will Ice beam, eat 80% of garchomp's HP through the berry, prolly die, random res fodder is sent in, user uses Max Revive, proceeds to obliterate garchomp and everything that comes after.
In pokemon in general but expecially in the games fights arent 1v1s in a vacuum, and games letting you use items (expecially revives) basically trivializes any of them no matter how good the opponent roster is.
(Tbh I think Revives in general are the item that more or less breaks Pokemon games as far as items go, you can actually bring back your pokes which means trading your ace 1 for 1 is often a valid strategy even if you're not overleveled by any reason)

That said.. I can't wait to see Nuzlockes of this :P
 
I like you guys math and all, but this is the part where I come to remind you that the overleveled Empoleon carried from the start will Ice beam, eat 80% of garchomp's HP through the berry, prolly die, random res fodder is sent in, user uses Max Revive, proceeds to obliterate garchomp and everything that comes after.
In pokemon in general but expecially in the games fights arent 1v1s in a vacuum, and games letting you use items (expecially revives) basically trivializes any of them no matter how good the opponent roster is.

That said.. I can't wait to see Nuzlockes of this :P

There's no denying that. I'd just heard one too many fans protesting "Noooo there's no way you beat her first try with Empoleon unlesS YOU GRINDED," and for that reason I looked up Garchomp's spread and ran some numbers. I know mine didn't even have Ice Beam way back in the day. Really, the point of the post is establishing that Empoleon in DP is not destroyed instantly like many fans seem to assume. BDSP may be a different story, however.
 
Last edited:
I like you guys math and all, but this is the part where I come to remind you that the overleveled Empoleon carried from the start will Ice beam, eat 80% of garchomp's HP through the berry, prolly die, random res fodder is sent in, user uses Max Revive, proceeds to obliterate garchomp and everything that comes after.
In pokemon in general but expecially in the games fights arent 1v1s in a vacuum, and games letting you use items (expecially revives) basically trivializes any of them no matter how good the opponent roster is.
(Tbh I think Revives in general are the item that more or less breaks Pokemon games as far as items go, you can actually bring back your pokes which means trading your ace 1 for 1 is often a valid strategy even if you're not overleveled by any reason)

That said.. I can't wait to see Nuzlockes of this :P

Not just revives though. What truly makes items ridiculous are x items. For the sake of example, that player's Garchomp from the video earlier could have taken an x speed and a swords dance in front of Spiritomb which would then cleanly kill Cynthia's team. If it gets statused or something then you can just go ahead and use a full heal or something
 
There's no denying that. I'd just heard one too many fans protesting "Noooo there's no way you beat her first try with Empoleon unlesS YOU GRINDED," and for that reason I looked up Garchomp's spread and ran some numbers. I know mine didn't even know Ice Beam way back in the day. Really, the point of the post is establishing that Empoleon in DP is not destroyed instantly like many fans seem to assume. BDSP may be a different story, however.
And I like to point out that yes, it is true that they may be slightly over the average "I press stab 6 times and win", but that won't change that it's still Pokemon and on a normal non-self-challenged playthrough, you'll still sport multiple overleveled pokes, X-items and Revive items, so even BDSP one will be a joke

Though, I admit it'll be hilarious to see people going blind expecting to faceroll it and see their face at the Yache berry pop followed by 1hko on their starter :psysly:
 
The nonbrained usage of items resulting in anything getting destroyed is a problem of the games as a whole, not the mechanic itself. Healing and reviving in jRPGs has been done for 30+ years and there're lots of examples of games that let you both heal and revive almost infinitely still being challenging, because the general design of the game contemplates that as a option given to the player, and so adjust their difficulty curve to that fact.
 
XY/SM:
View attachment 384900


Legends/BDSP:
View attachment 384901


While I don't expect every model to recieve major updates, it is true that they're being updated, alongside Legends showing off new animations in trailers. Whether BDSP will carry over all the updates in Legends is unknown, but the Shaymin in the event does match up with Legends' model
... What's different here?

Like, it DOES look better, obviously; but I'm pretty sure that's down to the shaders and lighting etc used which does change every game. Nothing about the model nor the pose is different
 
A little offtopic, but I do have this story about my Platinum Steel Nuzlocke regarding Garchomp.

Now obviously, Garchomp is one of the worst things a nuzlocker has to plan ahead for, let alone a steel-type specialist. However. Empoleon is actually the ace in the hole for this. Let me explain.

For context here’s how my battle with Cynthia went: her team, which you all know and love, vs my team of Empoleon, Bronzong, Steelix, Lucario, Probopass, and Magnezone.

1. She leads Spiritomb vs my Steelix.
2. We trade Shadow Ball and Iron Tail but I easily 2HKO. I realise Earthquake might be a range here since i dont want to risk the accuracy.
3. But to my ABSOLUTE SHOCK, she just. Switches into Lucario and Dies! Just like that! No more Lucario! Weird, but I ain’t complaining.
4. Milotic is actually trouble since its a bulky dumb bitch, but its nothing that the old Zine can’t fix. I hard into it on a Surf for almost half and Thunder Wave as it clicks Mirror Coat, i then metal sound it as it surfs me into the red, and fry it with a Thunderbolt.

5. and then. Her Garchomp. Unlike in BDSP, i have to deal with this NOW rather than as her final pokemon. I hard into my levitate Bronzontg (thank god) as it starts to chip me with flamethrower. I click rain dance to weaken the damage, and hard into Empoleon on a Dragon Rush.

6. So, what cockamamie scheme might i have to be crazy enough to fight Cynthia’s obscene Garchomp with MY empoleon? Well, there is one thing. And this might be obvious to some of you, but i hsd a singular option that would aid me in this fight, the option that would be utilized by Cynthia in the very remake we speak of today! Resist Berries! By equipping a Shuca Berry, Empoleon can’t be knocked down by an Earthquake, and can easily turn Garchomp into a Psuedo-Legendary Popsicle with a single Ice Beam.

7. rest isnt too important but togekiss is annoting my bronzong before i find out that lucario lives an aura sphere and can kill back with tpunch, spiritomb and roserade both get finished off easily by probopass, and i finish the run deathless

TBH, I trust that i’d likely do that in BDSP too, since berries are still very harvestable. But I figured I might mention something regarding this whole topic about Garchomp and Empoleon and items and all that
 
Back
Top