Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII

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dialganet

Banned deucer.
Well, I'm so glad I didn't decide to go blind earlier than today, because these reveals are awesome. Either way, my last two cents until the games come out, since the hype is sooo real I'm shivering right now, and I found the reveals so far are the necessary tease to go blind from now on. Still, it will be fun to read what you guys think since I suspect opinions will differ largely (the thread will probably have like 45 pages by the time I'm done typing).

Alola forms:

That's a neat touch of novelty for older mons, in order to both shake up the formula a bit and attract older fans as well (as mega did). The ones revealed, though, bring mixed feelings. Exeggutor hurts my eyes so bad I'm not even bothering catching one unless the original form is unavailable in SuMo. Whose idea was that stretching its neck like a Diplodocus and turning it into an even more disoriented, stumbling tree would make it look better? At least it's Dragon type. Bigger and dragonish = better right? Exeggutor is the exception to the rule, I guess. On the other end, as a winter and ice type lover, I love the others. I find it that the most trivial way to have something look cooler is to either attach ice/snowy parts or to put it to fire, and with Vulpix they did both things. I need an Alola Ninetales right now. It's so cool it almost offsets Exeggutor. Almost. It will be interesting to see if they will have an Hidden Ability akin to their older forms (a Snow Warning demonic fox with icy eyes? Yes please).

The Sandshrew family looks almost as good to me, bar that typing. Come on. Obvious guess: they will live atop the glacier on the fourth island. It will be interesting to see if Alola forms live in conjunction with other forms, maybe secluded to different locations (while Exeggutor looks typically Hawaiian altogether, the new icy mons could be glacier only, with older forms living elsewhere). Although, being called Alola forms, I guess they will be the go-to form for Alola born wild mons and parents, while older forms might be available only by breeding transferred ones.

New mons:

Mudsdale pre-evo might grow on me, but it hasn't so far. It looks a bit off. Other mons are either very good (the Trump joke is getting ridiculous, with Stakeout staying, the mon growing bipedal and more menacing, and the bouncer pose: this thing screams stay out of here! Besides, the dancing bird is both awesome and gimmicky against a lot of set-up sweepers) or already decent to my eyes (the grass guys seem genuinely well designed, even if they smell a bit too much of Lilligant). I guess I will have to evaluate them again in a couple of days, once I'm done jumping on the chair.
Regional peculiarities/overworld improvements:

I very much welcome the alternative battling lore of Alola, as it actually reminds me a lot more of that Saint Seiya saga with the Golden Warden Knights, one per constellation (with mons absorbing energy, summoning allies, wow). The Fire type guy look like a fusion of the Sinnoh Fire type Elite Four and Kalos Rock gym leader: with both being two of my favourite characters as far as design is concerned. I can't complain.

Overworld graphics looks dope as hell, and if we get a lot of sprites for Flying, riding and Surfing, the fun could be endless. I want to Fly with Golurk, Surf with Rhyperior... you get it. Locations looks to have a good deal of atmosphere as well, and what little music we've listened to so far has been great. This are poised to be the best game in the series, I'm really confident about this.
Super attacks:

Very, very interesting, despite them looking strictly offensive.

I would say this: kudos to GF, if the moves have not like 250 BP. I'm guessing something in the 150-200 range: no drawback Hyper Beam would be the most balanced (so we might as well as immediately abandon the idea lol), 180 would be in the V-create category (the maximum for non-suicide moves), while 200 would symbolise a new power peak (and creep). However, 300 BP STABbed attacks might be a little too much.

Why kudos then? Because, from preliminary information, they seem to have thought about balancing this quite well. You need to have the corrispondant item (so no boosting items for other moves), and a same type move. I haven't seen anything hinting about having the same typing, however, so it would seem that you could use surprise factor to round out coverage with an insanely powerful move. However, if you're running some exotic coverage, it would eat a moveslot. Moreover, Mega can't use super moves, so no Hi Jump Cross Dynamic Hyper Punch from Mega Medicham (thank God).

Fun fact: the almighty M-Quaza would still be able to perform the super moves if they don't change anything. That thing is the real Pokemon God. It trascends all mechanics.

tl, dr: if the BP isn't obscenely high, we're in for a nice shake-up.

P.S.: and now let's read the 10 pages that will have popped out of nowhere that will surely ninja all I've typed.

P.S.2: Kudos to Cresselia~~ for the leaks. However, now I'm horrified of those rumors about the Fire Starter, who is by far my favourite...
 
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I think it is. Maybe "absurd" has a different connotation in my language than yours, but if you ask me, I think it's pretty absurd to believe that a mechanic that, by itself, represents the 99% of the gameplay mechanics of the franchise, a total success in terms of gameplay and marketing... is going to dissapear like its nothing. We have been playing Pokémon with megaevolutions since 2013, can you imagine all of that, all the primal forms and mega-evolution and its impact in the games dissapearing because potato? Me not.
I agree that it is unlikely. but it isn't impossible. Show me some Gen 7 evidence for Megas.

EDIT: Not adding new megas is probably more believable.
 
Well... Probably kinda early to affirm but I think I'm going to hate these games.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a genwunner (heck I started on Gen II when IV was already out). I actually like the new "retcons" with the exception of Ice/Steel Snow Cloak Sandslash even though the design of all seem cool. I absolutely love Oricorio and probably will use it on my future team. And I'm still, unless they embargo Brazil, going to import Pokémon Sun.

But the change of the basic Pokémon game formula seems to... sudden. I guess the introduction of mega evolutions were received well enough to allow GF to think about taking bigger steps, but this seems too radical. Bear in mind I'm not talking about the "retcons" here (although I kinda dislike they're doing the same thing Digimon, Yo-Kai Watch and other -mon RPGs did). The chinese rumor being true means no gyms somewhat takes out the goal of the game for me. Island Trials seems so stupid, "RPG-esque" stuff (as a friend told me on discord and I totally agree); find stuff, fight a boss mon, spot differences... They're making Pokémon like its knock-offs in my opinion as far as what I've seen so far. Honestly, I won't be surprised if SM goes full Undertale and add another way of battling that isn't using moves at this point. Again, I'm not against changes in a game franchise, I liked megas, but heck, take me out to a fancy dinner first before going full anal. I don't know if these risks are going to pay off well, not in means of capitalism oh no they sure will, but on a way that will respect people who were both down for and against radical changes.

Does that mean I won't buy SM? No. As I said I'm going to give it a chance. It's my duty as a fan and I'm still trying to keep an open mind. But I can say for sure that I won't be surprised if Pokémon Sun and Moon are the most disappointing thing since my son, not living up to the hype it's creating. My opinion though, so feel free to disagree and call me a sexist/racist/homophobic.

On a more positive note,

This (better, these) is the best Bird mon ever since Honchkrow and I'll prob use all four, Ariel the Popplio and maybe Salandit as my full team, that is if I even need to have a full team at the end of the game. Fuck Minion Meteor tho.
The thing is: It's still probably a bit early to assume that gyms are confirmed out, imo. The Island Challenge could be something done alongside the gyms.
 
Have to admit, I'm a tad disappointed by the Alola Forms' abilities. Sandshrew, Sandslash, Vulpix and Ninetales all have Snow Cloak while Exeggutor has Frisk.
Like... c'mon, really? Can't we get something at least a little cool? Not asking for Adapatability or Protean, just... something that's not useless.
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
Have to admit, I'm a tad disappointed by the Alola Forms' abilities. Sandshrew, Sandslash, Vulpix and Ninetales all have Snow Cloak while Exeggutor has Frisk.
Like... c'mon, really? Can't we get something at least a little cool? Not asking for Adapatability or Protean, just... something that's not useless.
None of these pokemon have had their hidden abilities shown yet. I'm sure there will be some more interesting stuff there.
 
Have to admit, I'm a tad disappointed by the Alola Forms' abilities. Sandshrew, Sandslash, Vulpix and Ninetales all have Snow Cloak while Exeggutor has Frisk.
Like... c'mon, really? Can't we get something at least a little cool? Not asking for Adapatability or Protean, just... something that's not useless.
Maybe their hidden ability will be nice, I can imagine a Hail Ninetales for exemple.



The Z move attack need to use the object ? Talonflame Z move / acrobatics seems fine if it get the no item boost for acro
 
So, Oricorio got me wanting to look up what moves would fall under the purview of a dancing move. All together this includes:

Swords Dance
Petal Dance
Rain Dance
Feather Dance
Teeter Dance
Dragon Dance
Lunar Dance
Quiver Dance
Fiery Dance

Barring any Dance moves lost in translation I'm not aware of. Oricorio killing itself with Lunar Dance sounds hilarious.
 
Game Freak said they were going with simple designs yet they all are unique, look good and overflow with personality.

These new abilities just keep coming and they are more than decent.

Now Alola forms these means that some mons will get a new breath of fresh air Alola Ninetails looks so good and that typing awesome!

This was a relly big reveal I must say I don't think they have revealed this much info at once for gen 7 until now.

Z-moves are usable once per battle and there's at least one for every type.

Solar Blade could it be the phisical version of Solar Beam?! I hope so.

So there aren't gyms well that much was true of that thing.

The coconut on the tail of Alola Exeguttor it so carefree lol

This is just a peak of what there really is in the game I guess we can see other alola forms in other islands.

Edit: Get a hold of this: Minior has the new Shields Down Ability with the Shields Down Ability, it will have excellent defensive capabilities as long as its shell is intact. It will also be protected from status conditions. But when its HP drops below half, its shell will break, and it will change to a form better suited to attacking.

With Solar Blade, Lurantis absorbs energy from the sun on the first move and then unleashes a powerful attack on the second turn. Lurantis is the Totem Pokémon of Lush Jungle, the site of an Akala Island trial. It will overwhelm trial-goers with the powerful combos it unleashes with the Pokémon allies it calls.
 
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BladePrincess Sirya

Not to be rude, but could we stop with the mega argument? It's just an opinion war. Nobody has proof. I don't really care who's right, though we all have hopes regarding it. This just isn't the place for "my factless opinion is right", "no my contradictory factless opinion is right".[/quote]

No problem. Last thing I want is this thread locked due to an Off-Topic debate.

Let's keep the HYPE going.
 
Count Bleck said:
...Hmm Guys? Here's another thing I found. The 4 dancing birds confirmed the rumor of the legendary hawaain legends.

Each type of bird lives on a different island. their type changes depend on the nectar of the flowers they drink. They are Fire, Ghost, Psychic, and Electric types. Didnt the rumor also say the remaining legens would also be these types?
There's actually a weird amount of circumstantial evidence that backs this up.

Lurantis's entry on the official website says that it's the totem of a Trial on 'Akala Island'. Now, ākala is a Hawaiian word for 'pink'; bearing in mind that melemele is Hawaiian for 'yellow' (as someone in the old thread pointed out - can't remember who, sorry), it looks like the hypothesis that the islands have colour names is, at worst, plausible. (Which is a cute callback to Gen I, actually.)

Oricorio comes in four colours - yellow, pink, red and purple. If the colour-name thing is true, the other two islands must be some riff on red and purple (Ula and Poni, perhaps?).

If that's the case, then it's not too much of a stretch to think that Tapu Koko, being the primarily yellow guardian of the island named 'Yellow', would be linked to three other guardians whose colours are pink, red and purple. And if their types match Oricorio's types, much as yellow Oricorio is an Electric-type like Tapu Koko, then the quartet would match the quartet described this post strangely well: Electric-type Ku/Tapu Koko pairs with yellow Oricorio, Fire-type Kane pairs with red Oricorio, Psychic-type Lono pairs with pink Oricorio and Ghost-type Kanaloa pairs with purple Oricorio...

... I mean, obviously I'm entering the realm of pure speculation here, but I don't think we can dismiss this totally out of hand.
 
Honestly maybe it's because I haven't seen the video but honestly I'm only excited over the boss battle part. This z boost thing is honestly giving me a headache trying to see if it's going to be OP or hardly used or somehow balanced I need more info about this man. Either that or I need to be more calm about this stuff.
 
So, Oricorio got me wanting to look up what moves would fall under the purview of a dancing move. All together this includes:

Swords Dance
Petal Dance
Rain Dance
Feather Dance
Teeter Dance
Dragon Dance
Lunar Dance
Quiver Dance
Fiery Dance

Barring any Dance moves lost in translation I'm not aware of. Oricorio killing itself with Lunar Dance sounds hilarious.

I could see these boogie birds having a niche in doubles if you paired them with a mon that can setup with these moves, it would be one turn of setup for two pokemon to get boosts! (at least if Oricorio can use a move after copying a dance)
 
So, Oricorio got me wanting to look up what moves would fall under the purview of a dancing move. All together this includes:

Swords Dance
Petal Dance
Rain Dance
Feather Dance
Teeter Dance
Dragon Dance
Lunar Dance
Quiver Dance
Fiery Dance

Barring any Dance moves lost in translation I'm not aware of. Oricorio killing itself with Lunar Dance sounds hilarious.
Don't forget it's own signature move Revelation Dance. Imagining two Oricorio's both attacking each other twice in one turn is amusing.
 
BladePrincess Sirya

Not to be rude, but could we stop with the mega argument? It's just an opinion war. Nobody has proof. I don't really care who's right, though we all have hopes regarding it. This just isn't the place for "my factless opinion is right", "no my contradictory factless opinion is right".
Fair enough.

Since the starter leeks are almost confirmed, I have to say Litten is the biggest disappointment. Another two legged, two arms fire starter. Poppilo's Evo is meh and Rowlet honestly looks like it has the best final Evo imo.
 
Oh, right, forgot about Oricorio lol.

Pretty silly (The one that looks like a cheerleader in particular) but nice designs, though I have my doubts on how it may be able to exploit that ability. In singles, at least. In doubles it would be dramatically easier.
 
All the news here is great, honestly, I don't mind much of it but.

I'll just be so disapppointed if that Litten final evo is real. I'm hoping maybe an artist got their hands on the character before they made up the evos...but that's just desparation talking.
 
I don't see any evidence that Megas will be scrapped, but it does look like they are fully removing HMs at this point with the ride Pokemon. They've been slowly doing it ever since making Flash a TM and other nonsense. Happy to see that they've changed it altogether (presumably).

I love the dancing birds. These are definitely based on the Birds of Paradise, you can't convince me otherwise. I love the Ghost/Flying one. One more to add to my mono Ghost team. Like many others I'm a big fan of Alola Ninetales. She is elegant and beautiful but the ice typing really suits her. I don't particularly care for Exeggutor (never have) and Sandslash seems okay to me. Lurantis is the only other one of this batch that I really care for, but I'm so happy the designs are full of personality with interesting concepts.
 
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