When you solo a game with a Pokemon they gain more experience than they would in a team of 3-4, making them seem better than they really are.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon X & Y In-game Tier List Discussion
- Thread starter Its_A_Random
- Start date
- Status
Pidgey - D Tier
Availability: Route 2. Pidgey is pretty common and will be one of the first Pokemon available to you which makes it all the more useful.
Typing: Normal/Flying. It's not a particularly interesting typing but it is useful for dealing with Bug, Grass, and Fighting, all of which are common enough to justify having a Flying type. You need something to cover Rock and Electric, but that shouldn't be too much of a stretch with the options available to you. It's also worth noting that Pidgey's type makes it eligible for sky battles. However, if you plan on using Pidgey for this purpose, it is a good idea to have a back-up choice on your team. Pidgey tends to lose sky battles to opposing Pokemon with super-effective STABs easily, with Emolga and Aerodactyl being particularly dangerous.
Stats: Pidgey's stats aren't particularly high but they are well-distributed. Speed and Power are usually preferred for in-game runs, and that is where Pidgeot's stats are focused. Its defences aren't actually that bad either, although they aren't anything special. The main criticism with Pidgey regarding stats would have to be its late evolution, which means that Pidgey's stats will probably be among the lowest on your team until level 36.
Movepool: Pidgey has access to Return well before the second gym. Aerial Ace is in Connecting Cave, and Fly is received before the fifth gym. Therefore, Pidgey is set as far as access to good STAB options is concerned. However, its movepool outside of those is pretty bad. It gets pretty much nothing good from its level-up movepool, which is mostly full of weak special moves (the few usable moves it gets from levelling up are outclassed by its TM options). Its TM movepool outside of Return, Aerial Ace, and Fly is also thin, with essentially no moves that are useful for covering threats that aren't already covered by its STABs.
Major Battles: Pidgey does well against the first gym so it starts off well. After that, it still has the Grass and Fighting gyms to contribute in (watch for Rock Tomb in the latter gym). On the other hand, 3 of the Kalos gyms use types that target Pidgey's weaknesses, so it's a bit of a mixed bag. Pidgey doesn't really contribute a great deal against the Elite 4 but it does have Gourgeist and Hawlucha to take on during the Diantha battle. Against Team Flare, Pidgey should focus on the Flying-weak (e.g. Scraggy) and more physically frail (e.g. Houndour) Pokemon that they use.
Other: Pidgey's abilities are both situational but are reasonably useful for in-game runs. Tangled Feet avoids Confusion, and Keen Eye negates Accuracy and now Evasion tactics. Take your pick.
Availability: Route 2. Pidgey is pretty common and will be one of the first Pokemon available to you which makes it all the more useful.
Typing: Normal/Flying. It's not a particularly interesting typing but it is useful for dealing with Bug, Grass, and Fighting, all of which are common enough to justify having a Flying type. You need something to cover Rock and Electric, but that shouldn't be too much of a stretch with the options available to you. It's also worth noting that Pidgey's type makes it eligible for sky battles. However, if you plan on using Pidgey for this purpose, it is a good idea to have a back-up choice on your team. Pidgey tends to lose sky battles to opposing Pokemon with super-effective STABs easily, with Emolga and Aerodactyl being particularly dangerous.
Stats: Pidgey's stats aren't particularly high but they are well-distributed. Speed and Power are usually preferred for in-game runs, and that is where Pidgeot's stats are focused. Its defences aren't actually that bad either, although they aren't anything special. The main criticism with Pidgey regarding stats would have to be its late evolution, which means that Pidgey's stats will probably be among the lowest on your team until level 36.
Movepool: Pidgey has access to Return well before the second gym. Aerial Ace is in Connecting Cave, and Fly is received before the fifth gym. Therefore, Pidgey is set as far as access to good STAB options is concerned. However, its movepool outside of those is pretty bad. It gets pretty much nothing good from its level-up movepool, which is mostly full of weak special moves (the few usable moves it gets from levelling up are outclassed by its TM options). Its TM movepool outside of Return, Aerial Ace, and Fly is also thin, with essentially no moves that are useful for covering threats that aren't already covered by its STABs.
Major Battles: Pidgey does well against the first gym so it starts off well. After that, it still has the Grass and Fighting gyms to contribute in (watch for Rock Tomb in the latter gym). On the other hand, 3 of the Kalos gyms use types that target Pidgey's weaknesses, so it's a bit of a mixed bag. Pidgey doesn't really contribute a great deal against the Elite 4 but it does have Gourgeist and Hawlucha to take on during the Diantha battle. Against Team Flare, Pidgey should focus on the Flying-weak (e.g. Scraggy) and more physically frail (e.g. Houndour) Pokemon that they use.
Other: Pidgey's abilities are both situational but are reasonably useful for in-game runs. Tangled Feet avoids Confusion, and Keen Eye negates Accuracy and now Evasion tactics. Take your pick.
Last edited:
I'd say a fast STAB Return that early is grounds for a possible C; especially when Pidgey's Flying-type is strong against 3 Gyms as well; and only 2 bosses in the entire game use types that resist Normal; Grant and Wilkstrom.
Featherdance is also pretty good utility; and there is always the one-in-four chance of Acrobatics. Base 101 speed Return is one of the fastest in the game; and it's not exactly anything to sniff at from Base 80 attack.
My gut says D is a little harsh; especially when Lv 36 comes quite soon in the overall scheme of things [Gym 3~5 period depending on EXP rates and team size; compared to 6~7 normally]; but I've not actually been bothered to in-game a Pidgey in X/Y.
Featherdance is also pretty good utility; and there is always the one-in-four chance of Acrobatics. Base 101 speed Return is one of the fastest in the game; and it's not exactly anything to sniff at from Base 80 attack.
My gut says D is a little harsh; especially when Lv 36 comes quite soon in the overall scheme of things [Gym 3~5 period depending on EXP rates and team size; compared to 6~7 normally]; but I've not actually been bothered to in-game a Pidgey in X/Y.
I've used Pidgey in my X/Y Playthrough and while it obviously has its downfalls, I found it to be pretty good and the fact that it outsped everything was a plus. Its good against 3 out of the first four gyms and can now learn Hurricane from the Move Relearner. The only problem I find with it is that it rarely OHKOs stuff if it doesn't have a high level advantage (mine was a minus attack nature as well, augmented that I maxed out its Amie and it gets crits fairly often).
I've used a Pidgey in my first run of X and barely used Exp Share. The resulting Pidgeot was easily one of the stars of my team, outshining even my MBlastoise and my Chestnaught, who each did decently but struggled in various places. STAB Return is nothing to sneeze at, and Roost/Featherdance helps a lot to add to its survivability. Obviously has its problems too, like having almost no answer to Steel/Rock types, but that's easily covered by other mons. Fly is great as well.
I ran through with bugs, bear with me
Butterfree: C
As always, Butterfree has its niche in the early game. Easy to catch in one of the first routes, and all it needs is level 12 to become one of the most valuable pokemon you could have early on. Compound eyes sleep powder let's you breeze through anything you outspeed, which is quite a bit considering most pokemon you are facing are still NFE. Putting pokemon to sleep is also one of the easiest ways to catch pokemon before you have any fancy pokeballs or false swipe. Unfortunately, once other pokemon evolve, Butterfree hardly stands a chance with awful typing, small bst, and low bp attacks. Unless you're me, you're going to drop it long before the E4.
Vivillon: B
Another super early pokemon, Vivillon is faster and stronger than Butterfree. It quickly learns struggle bug and draining kiss. Struggle bug is one of the few available spread attacks early on. Horde battles early game wouldn't be worth the time without Vivillon. Its frailty coupled with its poor defensive typing was always a problem but once it got bug buzz, quiver dance and hurricane it could sweep teams solo.
Scolipede: B
A combination of almost unbeatable speed in-game, strong attack, and the tm for poison jab being found very early game had scolipede pulling most of the weight for my bugs. It also learned rock smash, giving it fairly good coverage in-game alongside poison/bug. Once Scolipede reaches the elite 4 it is sporting the powerful megahorn and the earthquake TM found on Victory Road maintaining its strength. Frailty, common weaknesses and getting walled prevent it from a higher rank.
Crustle: B
Found pretty early. It is a pain in the arse to level, but it has stab rock slide (for multi poke battle) and sturdy shell smash once it got some levels on it. Being in-game it's very easy to potion scum until you've got enough boosts to sweep anything. It is however expensive to potion scum, and even without shell smashing crustle will require a lot of healing given its speed and lack of resists.
Heracross: B
Stab close combat at level 34 is amazing, but lack of a choice scarf can leave Heracross countered by a number of pokemon.
Escavalier: C
It gets quite a bit of - points for being found after gym 5 and requiring a trade to evolve. Between its typing and stats it can easily crush the gyms following including much of the e4. Its painful 4x fire weakness limits its usefulness against team flare and the fire e4 gym leader, however.
Butterfree: C
As always, Butterfree has its niche in the early game. Easy to catch in one of the first routes, and all it needs is level 12 to become one of the most valuable pokemon you could have early on. Compound eyes sleep powder let's you breeze through anything you outspeed, which is quite a bit considering most pokemon you are facing are still NFE. Putting pokemon to sleep is also one of the easiest ways to catch pokemon before you have any fancy pokeballs or false swipe. Unfortunately, once other pokemon evolve, Butterfree hardly stands a chance with awful typing, small bst, and low bp attacks. Unless you're me, you're going to drop it long before the E4.
Vivillon: B
Another super early pokemon, Vivillon is faster and stronger than Butterfree. It quickly learns struggle bug and draining kiss. Struggle bug is one of the few available spread attacks early on. Horde battles early game wouldn't be worth the time without Vivillon. Its frailty coupled with its poor defensive typing was always a problem but once it got bug buzz, quiver dance and hurricane it could sweep teams solo.
Scolipede: B
A combination of almost unbeatable speed in-game, strong attack, and the tm for poison jab being found very early game had scolipede pulling most of the weight for my bugs. It also learned rock smash, giving it fairly good coverage in-game alongside poison/bug. Once Scolipede reaches the elite 4 it is sporting the powerful megahorn and the earthquake TM found on Victory Road maintaining its strength. Frailty, common weaknesses and getting walled prevent it from a higher rank.
Crustle: B
Found pretty early. It is a pain in the arse to level, but it has stab rock slide (for multi poke battle) and sturdy shell smash once it got some levels on it. Being in-game it's very easy to potion scum until you've got enough boosts to sweep anything. It is however expensive to potion scum, and even without shell smashing crustle will require a lot of healing given its speed and lack of resists.
Heracross: B
Stab close combat at level 34 is amazing, but lack of a choice scarf can leave Heracross countered by a number of pokemon.
Escavalier: C
It gets quite a bit of - points for being found after gym 5 and requiring a trade to evolve. Between its typing and stats it can easily crush the gyms following including much of the e4. Its painful 4x fire weakness limits its usefulness against team flare and the fire e4 gym leader, however.
I refuse to see Gardevoir in A. This isn't RSE/DPPt anymore, where Kirlia would get Psychic at lv26 and then proceed to suddenly overpower everything until lv30. Heal Pulse is absolutely useless in Singles, Calm Mind really doesn't help your shitty Speed and Defense and Psychic only comes at lv40 for Gardevoir now. That, and Ralts is shit until evolution since RSE, and while Kirlia kinda has so-so stats in its low-20s, the Slow Exp. Rate is a gigantic wrench in your plans. And finally, from 20 to 30, it will most likely have to deal with Miltanks (urgh) and fully-evolved Fighting-type pokémon that will simply roflstomp her Defense while she does like 10% damage with Confusion (ok I"m exaggerating now, but).
On the other hand... it seems Kirlia learns Psychic at lv36. I have heard that pokémon past their evolutionary level gain 20% more Experience. If that's true, then while it wouldn't change Gardie's tier (B is perfect for her imo), it would surely help people not splitting their hair out with Confusion and Magical Leaf.
On the other hand... it seems Kirlia learns Psychic at lv36. I have heard that pokémon past their evolutionary level gain 20% more Experience. If that's true, then while it wouldn't change Gardie's tier (B is perfect for her imo), it would surely help people not splitting their hair out with Confusion and Magical Leaf.
Last edited:
I might comment on some of the other Pokemon I used later but they have already been covered by other write-ups.
Regarding my Pidgey write-up, I would actually be fine with putting it in C-tier. I personally opted for D-tier because I was trying to avoid tiering my Pokemon too high like some of the other users seem to have been doing in this thread, but it's definitely in the C-D range. I think its availability in a game with this many options is enough to put it above E on its own, but it's too weak for B-tier.
I wouldn't overrate the power of Return. It has no super-effective coverage, and it doesn't actually OHKO as often as you might think. My Pidgey often had to take hits partly because of this and it got worn down more easily than I would have liked, especially late-game.
Regarding my Pidgey write-up, I would actually be fine with putting it in C-tier. I personally opted for D-tier because I was trying to avoid tiering my Pokemon too high like some of the other users seem to have been doing in this thread, but it's definitely in the C-D range. I think its availability in a game with this many options is enough to put it above E on its own, but it's too weak for B-tier.
I barely used Featherdance in my run-through but I guess it was useful for weakening some of those Fighting-types in Glittering Cave. It doesn't learn Acrobatics though, which really sucks because it's a way better move than Fly or Aerial Ace.
I wouldn't overrate the power of Return. It has no super-effective coverage, and it doesn't actually OHKO as often as you might think. My Pidgey often had to take hits partly because of this and it got worn down more easily than I would have liked, especially late-game.
Yeah that was a significant problem with Pidgey, and when you aren't using Exp. Share (I didn't use it for the whole run) that's actually a pretty common situation.
Ralts will never see A-Tier. Its early-game performance is so bad that it becomes not very efficient to raise. Sure it might be great late-game, but it needs to be babied a lot. Similar to why Axew was never Top-Tier in the in-game tier list for BW2. I am thinking probably B-Tier could work for it, but it is too inefficient to be considered for A-Tier.
Also, I would like to propose the following for immediate tiering the next time I update (Probably during the weekend):
-Karrablast (w/o Trading): F-Tier
-Shelmet (w/o Trading): F-Tier
Basically these two are very ill-suited for in-game runs, though not Wobbuffet bad, they are still rather terrible. Shelmet has some bulk, but is very slow & has virtually no offensive presence. Karrablast has average attacking prowess, but its bulk is incredibly sub-par, meaning most things can 2HKO or OHKO it, & its speed does it no favours. Their evolutions are far better than these two. If you have any objections, do post, otherwise, these two will go straight to F-Tier.
As far as Team Flare is concerned, it only really fears Pyroar & Houndour/Houndoom, which not that terrible. I would argue in theory that it does an okay job against Team Flare, given the many Dark-types & a useful immunity to the Poison-type, the two main types Team Flare uses. I am currently using it in a run so I cannot fully say, but it was not as great against Valerie as I thought it would, mainly because all three of her Pokémon love to weaken the hell out of Physical Attackers (Mawile with Iron Defence, Sylveon with Charm, as well as Cute Charm for Females, & Mr. Mime with Reflect), though it can certainly take a few hits from all her mons. At least Iron Head at Level 37 helps it out, as well as being able to give it useful TM's like X-Scissor & Aerial Ace for it right off the bat. Personally I expect it to be C-Tier material when all is said & done. It has solid bulk & typing, with a precise movepool & an excellent Attack, but a crippling weakness to Fire, & its Speed are not helping it that much.
Also, I would like to propose the following for immediate tiering the next time I update (Probably during the weekend):
-Karrablast (w/o Trading): F-Tier
-Shelmet (w/o Trading): F-Tier
Basically these two are very ill-suited for in-game runs, though not Wobbuffet bad, they are still rather terrible. Shelmet has some bulk, but is very slow & has virtually no offensive presence. Karrablast has average attacking prowess, but its bulk is incredibly sub-par, meaning most things can 2HKO or OHKO it, & its speed does it no favours. Their evolutions are far better than these two. If you have any objections, do post, otherwise, these two will go straight to F-Tier.
I'm still leery with Bulbasaur in S and Charmander in A especially with Lucario there... but I'll address that later.
On the other hand, there are a few Pokemon I think have specific tiers:
- Skorupi and Pawniard seem okay for C. Both of these Pokemon have an edge against 2/3 late gyms. Pawniard has a bonus of being decent in the final gym. Both are decent against Team Flare with the favor of Drapion more than Pawniard. Still, Pawniard and Drapion fall off late-game because they don't really have an edge against the E4. Bisharp is weak to Fire, but is fairly decent against Steel and Dragon. Both do okay against the champion.
I'll write more on these later, but at worst they're very solid for being checks against the Fairy- and Psychic-type gyms.
Also, thank the fucking lord more people agree with Ralts not in A nor S tier.
On the other hand, there are a few Pokemon I think have specific tiers:
- Skorupi and Pawniard seem okay for C. Both of these Pokemon have an edge against 2/3 late gyms. Pawniard has a bonus of being decent in the final gym. Both are decent against Team Flare with the favor of Drapion more than Pawniard. Still, Pawniard and Drapion fall off late-game because they don't really have an edge against the E4. Bisharp is weak to Fire, but is fairly decent against Steel and Dragon. Both do okay against the champion.
I'll write more on these later, but at worst they're very solid for being checks against the Fairy- and Psychic-type gyms.
Also, thank the fucking lord more people agree with Ralts not in A nor S tier.
Was I the only person that used gallade? Once you hit the move tutor, it has far more power than gardevoir will ever get and a movepool that kicks ass. Until then it can just roll with powerup punch/low sweep/psycho cut. As equally as annoying as ralts to raise, but it CAN instantly evolve from kirlia.
Tomy
I COULD BE BANNED!
While I didn't use Gardevoir on my team - lack of space, I dropped Kirlia in the meanwhile, I have to agree: Kirlia is so hard to train, that slow exp.rate is really annoying.
I have used Zangoose, and it was a pleasant surprise.
Name/Tier: Zangoose - B-Tier
Availability: Route 8 (Hordes), more common in X
Stats: 73 HP / 115 Atk / 60 Def / 60 SpA / 60 SpDef / 90 Spd in normal form
Zangoose is available fairly early, with a great attack and a good speed for in-game purposes. Its defenses are pretty low, though.
Typing: Normal. Pretty average. Ghost immunity is great, but the Fighting weakness is problematic.
Movepool: Having a STAB Return with that massive attack early-game is just amazing. It has cool coverage options like Shadow Claw, X-Scissor, Aerial Ace, Rock Smash (beggining)/Power-Up Punch (After the 3rd Gym)/Close Combat (Late-Game). Swords Dance works like magic with Zangoose. He learns great moves on the special side (BoltBeam) but with 60 Sp.Attack, just forget it.
Major Battles:
Grant: Rock Smash can help, especially vs Amaura.
Korrina: Stay away. Return can help, but there are much better options. Zangoose's Defenses aren't ideal.
Ramos: He's a joke anyway. Return all the way.
Clemont: Neutral Match-up. Magneton is a bit difficult to take down, but Power-Up Punch can help.
Valerie: Neutral. Her pokemon are frail on the physical side, so Return is your best bet. It won't do much to Mawile, though.
Olympia: Return/Shadow Claw/X-Scissor. Don't pick the latter against Sigilyph.
Wulfric: Close Combat. Avalugg has a massive Defense, so try to set-up a Swords Dance first.
Team Flare: Neutral. However, The Dark-Types, late-game, are a piece of cake with Close Combat
Elite 4: Neutral against everyone. Return is your best bet, use your coverage moves when needed. Stay away from Fighting Types, like Hawkucha.
Additional Comments: Zangoose has a odd exp. rate (Erratic Group). It is a bit hard to raise early-game but mid-game and mainly late-game he's easier to raise than your other Pokes. I think it's B-Tier because while useful until the end (The harder match-up is Korrina) its typing is average, and those defenses aren't helping either.
I have used Zangoose, and it was a pleasant surprise.
Name/Tier: Zangoose - B-Tier
Availability: Route 8 (Hordes), more common in X
Stats: 73 HP / 115 Atk / 60 Def / 60 SpA / 60 SpDef / 90 Spd in normal form
Zangoose is available fairly early, with a great attack and a good speed for in-game purposes. Its defenses are pretty low, though.
Typing: Normal. Pretty average. Ghost immunity is great, but the Fighting weakness is problematic.
Movepool: Having a STAB Return with that massive attack early-game is just amazing. It has cool coverage options like Shadow Claw, X-Scissor, Aerial Ace, Rock Smash (beggining)/Power-Up Punch (After the 3rd Gym)/Close Combat (Late-Game). Swords Dance works like magic with Zangoose. He learns great moves on the special side (BoltBeam) but with 60 Sp.Attack, just forget it.
Major Battles:
Grant: Rock Smash can help, especially vs Amaura.
Korrina: Stay away. Return can help, but there are much better options. Zangoose's Defenses aren't ideal.
Ramos: He's a joke anyway. Return all the way.
Clemont: Neutral Match-up. Magneton is a bit difficult to take down, but Power-Up Punch can help.
Valerie: Neutral. Her pokemon are frail on the physical side, so Return is your best bet. It won't do much to Mawile, though.
Olympia: Return/Shadow Claw/X-Scissor. Don't pick the latter against Sigilyph.
Wulfric: Close Combat. Avalugg has a massive Defense, so try to set-up a Swords Dance first.
Team Flare: Neutral. However, The Dark-Types, late-game, are a piece of cake with Close Combat
Elite 4: Neutral against everyone. Return is your best bet, use your coverage moves when needed. Stay away from Fighting Types, like Hawkucha.
Additional Comments: Zangoose has a odd exp. rate (Erratic Group). It is a bit hard to raise early-game but mid-game and mainly late-game he's easier to raise than your other Pokes. I think it's B-Tier because while useful until the end (The harder match-up is Korrina) its typing is average, and those defenses aren't helping either.
How early can you get a Dawn Stone?
The main issue is that, and then you're kind of stuck with crap for movepool for a while. To be fair - the earlier TMs are a lot nicer to Gallade than Gardevoir. Rock Smash, then Rock Tomb, then Power-Up Punch when it's available.
If you super train, you can get a dawn stone before you have your first fight (if you take the time). The dawn stone is a reward from secret super training, which is unlocked when you max a pokemon's EVs. You pick one up naturally at the skiddo ranch, however. I always super trained my guys, but I know that's probably off the table for considering tiering. I think it's worth it to have a 125 attack mon at level 20--even slash is going to hurt coming from it. It's not on bulbapedia due to a generation change, but you also get close combat as a level 1 move, meaning you can completely dominate the endgame from ~45 onwards from the move tutor.
It's also worth noting that it's just as strong as kirlia in special attack. Gallade is nothing but a kirlia upgrade; its confusion hits just as hard until you get any tms you want.
For the record, the first non-super training Dawn Stone you can obtain is after the 3rd gym. Once you can surf, you can cross a patch of water south of santalune city to pick up a dawn stone.
Grinding seems rather tedious and isnt allowed...
...Yeah not buying it. Even by the time of the third gym Ralts has a possibility of becoming Gardevoir and then does -okay- for a little while longer.
Also, Roserade is definitely S Tier. While learning Petal Dance at 37 instead of 32, it has better ways of poisoning targets via Toxic Spikes, better Grass-type attacks, and better sustainability. Furthermore, Roselia has equal SpA to fucking Venusaur and doesn't lose in Speed until Venusaur arrives. It's not available much later than Bulbasaur, has the same EXP rate, and arguably has better moves for a long time. Ivysaur is rocky in Gym 2 (as is Roselia) due to Amaura. Ivysaur has to Razor Leaf off its lower Atk (paltry 62) while Roselia targets his slightly higher SpD.
Roserade has higher SpA and Speed as well and even if you feel "stuck" with Roselia it can easily take Eviolite if the defenses feel subpar.
...Yeah not buying it. Even by the time of the third gym Ralts has a possibility of becoming Gardevoir and then does -okay- for a little while longer.
Also, Roserade is definitely S Tier. While learning Petal Dance at 37 instead of 32, it has better ways of poisoning targets via Toxic Spikes, better Grass-type attacks, and better sustainability. Furthermore, Roselia has equal SpA to fucking Venusaur and doesn't lose in Speed until Venusaur arrives. It's not available much later than Bulbasaur, has the same EXP rate, and arguably has better moves for a long time. Ivysaur is rocky in Gym 2 (as is Roselia) due to Amaura. Ivysaur has to Razor Leaf off its lower Atk (paltry 62) while Roselia targets his slightly higher SpD.
Roserade has higher SpA and Speed as well and even if you feel "stuck" with Roselia it can easily take Eviolite if the defenses feel subpar.
I still feel like super training with krila --> gallade is a bit different, considering it gets maxed stats AND a quick evolution from it...but it probably doesn't matter. I refuse to see gallade as anything below gardevoir, that's for sure (it's even better, really...). Is the tier list eventually going to be divided into + and - for each tier?
Also Shiny Stone is Route 12 - which is huge for Roselia. That's roughly about when you might see Venusaur anyway, so it only wins in Petals Dance war for 5 levels anyway.
Dawn Stone is on Route 3 - I believe Surf is required at the least, though. Which is roughly the same time Shiny Stone exists.
Dawn Stone is on Route 3 - I believe Surf is required at the least, though. Which is roughly the same time Shiny Stone exists.
What do you mean by +/-? These lists are nearly always just sorted alphabetically after places have been determined. Being neat the top just means your name starts with an earlier letter in the alphabet.
Toxicroak is still pretty bad... Def looking at C at best probably (I'm feeling D tbh), surprisingly not as strong as I expected it to be, but Croagunk was much better when I finally got Low Sweep. Golurk is so strong jeez even with just Iron Fist + Shadow Punch he is tearing stuff apart more often that not. I'd probably place him B (maybe A). Delphox is solid like others have been saying and Heliolisk got a lot better once i remembered to teach it thunderbolt :o
Some other viability threads sort each tier further (A+, A-, etc), and I just wondered if that was going to be repeated. There ARE a ton of available things, after all.
Froakie should be above Fennekin. Frogadier learns Rock Smash and every HM except for Fly and actually has the moveslots available to use them all without having any detrimental effects in battle. Because it doesn't get anything worth keeping other than STAB water attacks until it gets Extrasensory at Level 49 it can afford to have Cut, Strength, and Rocksmash as its other moves which means you don't need to swap out pokemon from your PC when you need to use an HM since Froakie can use them and still not suck in battle. Also its early game and midgame are way better than Fennekin who's best move until Level 34 is a non STABed Psybeam while Froakie gets STAB Water Pulse at level 14 and Surf when you reach Shalour City. Also, if you're picking Fennekin then you're probably not taking Charizard which means you miss out on its Fly utility and Mega Evolutions that are very convenient in the lategame.
But being relegated to an hm slave is terrible. Also froakie is extremely weak.
I second this... Roserade is as good as Venusaur, you can cach Budew early-game on Route 4, and on Route 7 as Roselia, so you don't need to train a weak Budew. Remember: We do not decide the tiering of one Pokémon based on its performance relative to another Pokémon. If both are good enough for the same tier, they will be placed as such.
What I was trying to say is that Froakie is the best HM slave because it'll perform exactly the same in battle with or without the HMs. By picking Froakie you'll never have a wasted slot in your party for garbage like Bibarel because you have something that performs well in battle that doesn't mind the HMs because its moveset is made of lategame TMs anyway.
Just a little bit of food for thought, but by taking the Route 4 Budew over the Route 7 Roselia, you do get the advantage of having three flawless IV's, so I guess there is some merits to getting Budew I guess. Also happiness evolutions are pretty easy so it should not take that long to evolve.
- Status