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while im still trying to figure out what is up with google forms, ive made a VR template to make personal VRs or VR noms! if theres any mon ranked mid or lower that you want to add, you will need to upload the pics yourself, as this is just the high, top, and good tiers of the viability estimate post.
This is a great opportunity for everyone to speak their mind about the state of the Twisted Dimension OM and have a voice in shaping it moving forward. Please give the survey a look and feel free to discuss the survey contents or anything else we should examine.
As of now, I have updated the Watchlist for the tier to include the following controversial Pokémon:
Conkeldurr
Greedent
Ursaluna
Furthermore, the following Pokémon will be considered for freedom in the tier:
Giratina-Origin
This list may be expanded depending on survey feedback.
The Council’s next vote will begin the evening of Sunday, December 15th based on the survey feedback from the community. Please stay tuned.
Edit: The contents of this post have been made a button on the OP. Hopefully this remains a valuable resource for the community while teambuilding.
On Speed Control
Due to the speed tiering inversion, speed control does not exist in the traditional sense in the Twisted Dimension OM. In this setting, inflicting Paralysis increases the opponent’s speed, Tailwind is completely unviable and self-Sticky Webbing strategies are highly telegraphed, risky and inconsistent strategies which require using very slow Pokemon for Court Change like Cinderace or Smeargle.
The banning of the speed halving the Power items and Iron Ball (collectively dubbed “Power/Ball”) came with some trade offs, as it left us without an analogue to Choice Scarf. Previously, every Pokémon felt obligated to hold Power/Ball in order to not be sped-crept by one another, which over centralized the meta around them. In its current post-ban state, the meta became much more diverse in terms of viability, both in terms of Pokémon and items, but also much more offensively oriented. The other trade off was that our OM also became much more limited when it comes to speed control in the face of set up sweepers, which comes in a scant few flavors:
Viable priority users, the preferable option being the rare special priority, which bypasses the Defense boosts associated with the meta-staple Curse, or the still viable option of physical priority:
Azumarill
Crawdaunt
Breloom
Comfey
Dusknoir
Giratina
Giratina-Origin
Gurdurr
Kingambit
Muk-Alola
Palafin
Raging Bolt
Rillaboom
Scizor
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
Urshifu
Particularly low speed Pokémon who sit safely below the threshold of base 20 speed, or Greendent’s benchmark, who is the fastest viable boosting sweeper of the meta. These speedy Pokémon have either decent enough attacking stats or access to Encore, Haze, Clear Smog, Foul Play or Destiny Bond.
Foongus
Munchlax
Pineco
Pincurchin
Sandygast
Trapinch
Wooper-Paldea
Alternatively, Clodsire and Solosis speed tie with Greedent, however, Clodsire can reliably beat it using Unaware and Curse, while Sash Solosis can run speed EVs to be just slightly slower and use Endeavor, or speed creep it in the opposite direction with Trick Room, so another higher speed mon can revenge.
Clodsire
Solosis
Prankster Pokémon, who can use priority Encore or Trick/Switcheroo Lagging Tail, which have the limitation of being unable to check Dark types, or in Murkrow’s case, Haze, which does affect Dark types.
Cottonee
Grafaiai
Murkrow
Illumise
Sableye
Volbeat
Whimsicott
Trick Room setting Pokémon immune to being OHKO’d, or especially bulky ones:
Carbink
Cresselia
Deoxys-defense
Dusclops
Mimikyu
Solgaleo
Why Consider an Item Clause?
You may notice on the survey a query regarding installing an Item Clause on top of freeing Iron Ball, alone. The intention of this idea is to liberate Iron Ball, just Iron Ball, without enabling whole teams to run it. The intended effect of this would be to dramatically increase the viable options of speed control to counter set up sweepers, or to force set up sweepers who want to use Iron Ball unable to be able to hold other valuable items (Flame Orb, Sitrus Berry, Life Orb, Leftovers, Heavy-Duty Boots, etc.), which in turn would increase their counterplay in other areas.
I feel this idea is at least worth discussion. My personal opinion is that having Iron Ball as a restricted option in the OM would promote skillful play in the form of scouting, either by conventional methods, or by viable Frisk users like Dusclops and Execcutor-Alola, and clever use of Knock Off or Trick in order to secure endgame sweeps. This is a compromise option that offers the best of both worlds of the pre and post-Power/Ball ban.
While an Item Clause would be restricting to the team builder in other ways, and possibly restricting defensive play. However, full-Stall is already unviable in this meta, with archetypes such as Full Boots Spam not being relevant, as of now. Balance and HO are the much more preferred playstyles, which an Item Clause is less likely to impact due to the diversity of roles. There may be enough diversity in items to justify an Item Clause if it means the meta skill expression improves and speed control becomes more diverse.
We can also discuss the merits of banning Curse as a move, which in turn would lessen the need for Little Cup mons as speed control, while also improving the general viability of physical priority. However, a consideration about banning Curse is that it makes the speed-tiers even more ridgid. Another thing, Curse is an entirely different move on Ghost types, where it is definitely not broken, even healthy on mons like Dusclops and Mimikyu, and trying to ban Curse, while permitting it on Ghosts, gets into messy complex ban territory.
Tl;dr: Please share your thoughts, for or against, the possibility of Item Clause + Iron Ball being freed or Banning Curse.
I am personally against freeing Iron Ball because I’m not a fan of this item or item clause. It’s my personal opinion that limiting player option for the sake of a better or more creative metagame isn’t fun and belittles player choice. If I want to run a full leftovers team I shouldn’t be prevented from doing so.
I don't claim to know what bans are acceptable but the other alternative to a full item clause is a ban on multiple iron balls i.e. change the ban entry from 'Iron Ball' to 'Iron Ball > 1'.
I don't claim to know what bans are acceptable but the other alternative to a full item clause is a ban on multiple iron balls i.e. change the ban entry from 'Iron Ball' to 'Iron Ball > 1'.
I think that starting banning strong mons then check if Curse is still the problem (i mean giving victory dance to hella broken physical swepper is a bit too much imho) free them after the inevitable Curse ban. And yes limiting Iron Ball to 1 is a complex ban.
Fun metagame non the less
I kind of think Curse is the most problematic thing in the meta right now post Torkoal/Glast/speed-halving ban. There's a reason Victory/Quiver Dance is typically low-distribution and almost every mon learns Curse.
Conkeldurr has been quick banned! Giratina-Origin has been freed!
The results of our council’s second tiering action vote are in!
Subject
VannAccessible
solrock the great
Lectrys
Fingie Snatcher
S1nn0hC0nfirm3d
Result
BAN
ABSTAIN
BAN
BAN
BAN
BAN
ABSTAIN
ABSTAIN
DNB
ABSTAIN
ABSTAIN
DNB
BAN
ABSTAIN
DNB
ABSTAIN
ABSTAIN
DNB
DNB
DNB
DNB
DNB
DNB
DNB
Conkeldurr was deemed too great of a demolitions expert to remain in the Twisted Dimension. Its combination of Guts, Facade, Poison Jab, Knock Off and the super spammable speed-lowering STAB option Hammer Arm limited its defensive counterplay options to very few answers, while its 45 base speed tier permitted Conk to speed tie Hatterene at -1 speed, which it could easily reach with either Curse or Hammer Arm. Furthermore, Conk’s access to Mach Punch reduced available counterplay in the form of faster, but more frail speed control, such as Munchlax.
Greedent was considered controversial to some, due to its fantastic low base 20 speed and access to the game ending Belly Drum, in tandem with essentially having two health bars thanks to Cheek Pouch and Sitrus Berry. However, without set up, this chunker is very weak, and unable to make progress. Post set up, it still often finds roadblocks in the builder due to Dondozo and other Unaware mons, and phasers like Giratina and Ting-Lu maintaining a high presence in the tier, and faster speed control like Encore Munchlax forcing it into harmless moves.
This beast of a bear shares a lot in common with Conkeldurr, including a 140 base attack and access to Guts, yet lacks Conkeldurr’s speed tier, allowing faster mons like Hatterene and Slowbro to revenge it at -1 speed. Furthermore, Ursaluna’s defensive answers are more ample than Conk’s, and includes such options as Corviknight and Sinistcha, as well as Dondozo, who can Wave Crash right through the bear’s Curse defense boosts.
Giratina-Origin joins its base form from the Shadow Realm! Origin form exchanges its ability to hold an item for slightly higher natural offenses, lower defenses and Levitate. It may find a niche over its base form as a bulky attacker, leveraging its good Ursa STAB immune defensive profile and natural bulk to make trades, while also being Trick and Spikes immune.
Item clause would let Iron Ball work but the implications of that aren't great, considering how valuable boots are in singles. We then still have power items banned which feels kind of weird, though those certainly can't all come back or we're back at square 1. What about coding Room Service to give -1 on switch in all the time in TD? Not like the item is worth using otherwise; then it becomes a booster energy in this meta.
I have not received much positive feedback regarding Item Clause + Iron Ball being freed. People simply do not like Item Clause as a concept, and I can respect that. Furthermore, we will not pursue a complex ban of any kind in this format, because Smogon as a community is rightly opposed to complex bans as being a slippery slope, and also because Iron Ball does not deserve special treatment.
People have been more accepting of Room Service auto-proc being installed, but my opinion on it has slowly shifted away from it. While I still think the idea may fit within the initial premise of the format, making it auto-proc conflicts with its item description:
If Trick Room is active, the holder’s speed is lowered by 1 stage. Single use.
Considering this, changing the way Room Service functions in tandem with Trick Room now being functional in the format leaves a nasty, pet-moddy taste in my mouth. However, I feel Room Service still can have a place in this meta as-is, on semi-Room teams.
Ultimately, these were fun thought experiments, but both of these ideas have been met with a good amount of valid objection, both from members of the community and council. My intention with pitching these as options was to spur debate, but as of now, I am shelving these ideas to expand speed control in the TDOM. When it comes to speed control, what you see is what you get.
Having said that, I’m delighted at the creativity the community has displayed regarding speed control in this format, especially when considering how powerful and meta-defining Curse is. At the conception stage of this OM, I never considered that baby Pokémon like Munchlax, Trapinch, Solosis and Foognus might have legit roles in a meta co-inhabiting with Ubers monsters like Solgaleo, Urshifu and Zacian. It’s pretty wild to see these little guys bullying Ursaluna and Dondozo. They give this format some wonderful flavor.
I've been enjoying this metagame a lot since the Iron Ball ban, thanks for making it. A few thoughts (my main deSilentio is currently #7 on the ladder):
Very surprised by the Conk ban. I never found Conk to be anything to speak of compared to Ursaluna. Its one advantage is underspeeding some key threats at -1, which is meaningful, but it is not easy for Conk to get that Curse off safely. And plenty of things survive its hits (Facade is a range on 252 HP/0 Def Hat that only becomes favorable with rocks, it never kills Reuniclus, Dondozo switches in and sets up on it) and any Ghost-type walls non-Knock Off variants entirely. Not that I ever see Giratina on the ladder, and the other Ghosts are no good, but there is a plenty of powerful counterplay. Ursaluna, on the other hand, can't underspeed anything without two Curses--but it doesn't need to, it just walks in and clicks Facade and things die. And Ursa is at most 2HKOed by everything relevant, while Conk gets OHKOed by all the Psychic-types running around.
It's a defensible ban, and maybe teams having both Ursa and Conk pushes things over the limit by exhausting each others checks.
Room Service being introduced to the meta would be interesting. Iron Ball was much too strong, but Room Service both being single-use and announcing itself makes it much more palatable. I like the meta without it, though, and would lean to keep from enabling it. Definitely don't bring back Iron Ball in any way, even with Item Clause.
I put some rough thoughts on viability in the list below. It's not particularly ordered within tiers for the most part. I only rated the things I have actually seen used on the ladder. This means I didn't rank Giratina at all, but I expect it to be pretty good.
S
Slowking-Galar: S is for Slowking the G. Assault Vest Glowking is incredible in this format. It underspeeds most things. It switches into CM Hat, the centralizing pillar of the metagame, easily. It hits everything super-effectively, it sweeps, it tanks, it regenerates, it's the best thing around. Clodsire: This thing being marked as merely "Good" on the current VR is a travesty. It's one of the best things in the tier. It's Twisted Dimension's Landorus-Therian. It sets up every hazard in a metagame where no one runs Rapid Spin because everyone runs Hat, but Hat doesn't want to switch into this. And it's so slow it practically has priority Earthquake. And it's Unaware, so you can still use to to chip/revenge kill weakened Curse sweepers. And it can run a Curse set itself. The opportunities are endless. Dondozo: Our other Curse boy is obviously one of the best things in the tier. What can take a +1 Dondozo? Not much. RestTalk sets are not the way to go, though, this isn't OU, he's not a wall, he's a sweeper. I think Curse/Wave Crash/Ice Fang/Rest is the best thing he can run @ either Chesto Berry or Leftovers. Hatterene: By usage this thing is probably S+++. It's the defining metagame staple. Look at the other best mons in the meta--they tend to line up pretty well into Hat. Things like Copperajah, Glowking, Clodsire, there are plenty of things to do about it. Its most important contribution is defining hazard control in the format. No one runs Rapid Spin, in part because the Rapid Spinners are terrible and in part because you already have a Magic Bouncer; why bother?
A
Slowking: Great Nasty Plot sweeper who can throw Shadow Ball into all the many Psychics in the tier. Trapinch: Banded Trapinch is a nasty revenge killer at that sweet, sweet 22 Speed. Not much in this tier takes Earthquake very well. Can't do much about Curse sweepers, though. Reuniclus: Hits the same 58 Speed as the Slowbros and Slowkings. Natural bulk + Magic Guard + Life Orb + Psychic/Ghost coverage is all great to have in this tier. Functions as a bulky check to many scary things. Magic Guard + Focus Sash makes it a one-time check to anything. Ursaluna: It's scary. It hits hard. It doesn't underspeed anything relevant at -1. Don't bother Cursing with this guy, just start swinging. Corviknight: It does Corv things. Checks Trapinch/Copperajah/Ursaluna/Crabominable/Greedent/physical sweeper XYZ. It slow U-turns just like in OU or anything else. Its Defog is the best hazard removal in the metagame. Hydrapple: Underrated. Yache Berry Hydrapple is the best Dondozo counter around, switching in on Curse and easily surviving +1 Ice Fang to Giga Drain back. Nasty Plot gives it sweeping potential too. Pincurchin: Gotta go fast! That blistering 31 Speed plus reasonable offenses thanks to Electric Surge make you a great revenge killer even against Dondozo. Spikes support is also amazing. You can't ever touch Clodsire or Hydrapple or really threaten Galarian Slowbro/King much, though. Copperajah: Hits really hard with Sheer Force Life Orb and unlike Ursaluna actually hits that magical 58 Speed to compete with the slow kids. Can never touch Dondozo, while Ursaluna can. Slowbro-Galar: It does things. Maybe should go down to B.
B:
Slowbro: The worst Slowbrother in the tier, but by its nature none of them can be bad. Muk-Alola: Great Knock Off user in a Psychic-heavy tier. Maybe I should put him higher up. Greedent: So slow, so bulky, so weak. Has to set up with Belly Drum to ever do anything, but Steels and Ghosts still ruin your day, or Unaware mons (i.e. the best mons in the meta). Belly Drum + Last Resort cheese is pretty scary and matchup fishy, I wouldn't be sad to see that set go. I had a laugh just spamming Recover into that set with my Unaware Clodsire until my opponent was out of Last Resort PP, though! Grimmsnarl: Screens for Ursaluna seems like a good strategy. But Hat can just come in on Grimm and CM up, or Dondozo can set up, or Dondozo can bait the Taunt into Hat to block Grimm from setting screens while also letting Hat set up, etc. Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: It's too fast to underspeed anything but still cool. Crabominable: Ice Hammer to underspeed things is cool but you lack the power of Conkeldurr or Ursaluna. Plus Ice is resisted by Dondozo, so you will never get past Dondozo, or even chip Dondozo, which means that you are not that good. Plus it can't learn Curse so it can only boost its Attack by Bulk Up, which is sad. Rhyperior: Its Earthquake hits pretty hard, it can sometimes survive a hit.
C:
Solgaleo: Solgaleo is as good as Trick Room + Teleport is. It's not very. Snorlax: A reasonable Curse user, but not the best. Sudowoodo: Sturdy suicide hazard lead. Not a great thing to be in Hatterene: the Metagame. Dusclops: Doesn't do enough, doesn't have Recover, good bulk, being a Ghost is amazing in this metagame. Ting-Lu: A hazard setter with a bad matchup into Hatterene, which is on every team, is a death sentence. Never use this over Clodsire, it's also doesn't underspeed anything.
D
Palossand: Doesn't do anything meaningful. Avalugg: Avalugg will always suck. Forretress: Rapid Spinners are not the best in this metagame (I'd rather have Defog Corviknight). But at least it can Spin + Stealth Rock/Spikes/Toxic Spikes. Zero offensive presence means you'll get eaten up by Curse sweepers, though.
What do you guys think of Electro Ball? Since everything is so slow even an average speed pokemon could get 150 BP on many things in the metagame, which is pretty insane.
What do you guys think of Electro Ball? Since everything is so slow even an average speed pokemon could get 150 BP on many things in the metagame, which is pretty insane.
Its best use I’ve seen were on Rotom-W and, on Trick Room, Choice Specs Thunderus-T. Rotom-W was used more when Torkoal was around, and it’s still a niche, fast pivot that can come into Water- and Ground-types like Dondozo, Alomomola, and Ting-Lu. The combo of Electro Ball, Volt Switch, and Hydro Pump can be hard to stomach, but its high speed and only mediocre bulk makes it hard to justify. Choice Specs Thunderus-T can destroy teams that lack Ground-types with how strong it is under Trick Room, but that’s too fishy to be actually relevant. All in all, Electro Ball isn’t good by the nature of fast Pokemon usually not being good.
Update is live! Conk is now illegal, Gira-O is free. New VR revision.
I’ve been working on a major revision of the VR, incorporating the input of high ladder players. This revision removes a lot of the old Low tier that was purely hypothetical, shifts a lot of everything else down and is more representative of what I'm seeing on ladder. I'll give some justification on my changes. I've also got some speculation on the post-Conk meta. Thoughts/changes?
Top Dondozo Hatterene Ursaluna
Hat is still the best mon IMO, but Conk being gone takes a lot of pressure off Don to the point where I'm now comfortable rising it to top. Rest sets are falling but 3 attack Curse sets are great and coverage is very malleable. Ursa is now the best breaker in the meta with very few things enjoying switching in, so it merits a rise too.
Per Trigonal Clod gets a rise to High, as I think Unaware offensive+hazard sets have merit in checking Greedent and Hat. Water Absorb is still an option too, but less necessary as single attack Don is dropping.
Kingambit might also merit a rise to top without Conk? It's really good endgame. Body Press / Sub sets will prob rise to check it though. We'll see.
I disagree Avalugg is less than Good. While Avalugg is a Curse mon who can't beat Don/Slowbro, it laughs at the Grass types Don struggles with, Snow is great for it and it can Loaded Dice + Icicle Spear clean through Sub/Sash/Sturdy. Band sets have merit too, as it outspeeds Hat out of the box. It also is a Rapid Spinner that Giratina, Sinestcha and Gholdengo don't like to switch in on, making it a better spinner than Donphan. It’s anlso got a really strong Defense with Body Press for King. All great and varied traits.
Heatran has proven itself at high ladder on balance structures for being a great Hat and Glowking check. Superior Serperior
Likewise, Gastrodon is a good Don and Slowbros check with Clear Smog, and can hazard on Hat. I guess it could also Curse+Toxic Dondozo, since Rest is bad now?
Offensive Pineco either trades with Hat with Poison Jab + Explosion, or otherwise juist rains SR and Spikes on the opponent. Unlike Sudowood, it doesn’t risk Rock Misses to beat Hat. Best hazard lead, IMO.
Solgaleo is probably the worst mon in Good, with its 4mss, but it's def better than anything in mid, has lots of tools, and is a good Hat/Glowking check.
I feel like Hariyama and Gurdurr might belong in High in Conk's absence, but we'll have to wait and see. They're both arguably better against Hat than Conk was, as Hari has Bullet Punch and Gurdurr cleanly outspeeds at -1. They both certainly struggle against defense more that Conk though.
Mid is some less splashable goodish offensive options, walls and utility counters and stuff.
Do Araquanid, Camerupt, Iron Hands and Bloomoon really belong this low? I feel like the meta is really inhospitable to them. Bloodmoon also has to fight its physical counterpart for a teamslot, which is faster and immediately stronger. Those STABs and Vaccum Wave sure is nice though.
Giratina-Origin is prob worse than its Base but has some nice stuff going for it. It helps pivot around Ursa and I like Shadow Sneak on it for Hat.
Comfey has priority Draining Kiss and Giga Drain to bypass Curse, can pivot with U-Turn or goob special walls with Trick Specs or Lagging Tail. Kinda cool.
Basculegion-F is slow, but can force out Dondozo, and everything in the meta HATES switching into the combo of Adaptability Surf and Shadow Ball. Underrated, I think, and pretty nice on Rain.
RH Endure Tank Garchomp chips offensive stuff down really nicely and Hat doesn't like switching into EQ so it can run Spikes. It can even spinblock weakned stuff. Not terrible.
For those of you who hate getting swept by Greedent has access to the fastest Foul Play in the game. Life Orb plus Leaf Storm also does a number on Don and Ursa. Clear Smog is nice too. You go, little buddy.
I feel like Weezing-G's value really drops without Conk, since it can't wall Ursa well. Pity.
Vileplume has a really annoying offensive typing to switch into, Effect Spore, Leech Seed and Strength Sap.
Wo-Chien may be better than this now without Conk. Leech Seed + Ruination is nice in this meta, as it's pretty annoying to Don, Ursa, Slowbro and Slowking.
Sp Def Gliscor with Poison Jab can Spikes on Hat, and beats Bloodmoon pretty reliably with Protect.
Kyruem can Freeze-Dry+Earth Power+Calm Mind, through Balance, even if its slow. EVen better in Snow.
Low consists of niche checks to top mons, some bad Ubers, meh pivots with some unique traits, some weather setters, and Trick Room stuff.
Trevenant and Orthworm can style on Ursaluna and run either Harvest+Seed+Sub or throw hazards since hat doesn’t enjoy switching in on either of their STABs.
Like Samurott, Ogerpon and Toedscruel can Spike on Hat, but don't die quite as fast to it, so that's something.
Vaporeon can double dance with Curse and Calm Mind for Stored Power sets, while being immune to Water attacks. It either has to forgo Scald or Wish though.
Okidogi is a slower Curse user with some nice STABs, andone that can Toxic Dondozo with its attacking moves.
Urshifu and Meowscarda are kinda GOATed with Trick Room, being able to crit through Curse def boosts.
I'll be real, I'm surprised and not super sold on Conk being made illegal while Ursa was kept safe. Hat was already a natural counter to it and was (and still is) used on a wide team variety. It was pretty mid on its special defense, made even easier to answer by the plethora of slow psychic types in the tier (Slow Twins, Hatterene, Reuniclus and it's prevo's). The real threat as I see it would be Ursa, stab Facade with access to Curse, Crunch, Stab Earthquake while being harder to defensively keep a hold on in a tier where Dondozo is really the most notable and widely regarded type adversary as it were, having super effective stab and being able to work around the Curse Boosts. until stab facade hits it and leaves it vulnerable to resting while something with Grass Knot gets opportunity to answer Dozo, leaving Ursa open to sweep again.
As my own aside, I've made it into the top 20 with a pretty solid team, and I find one of the most hilarious pokemon to really come into their own that a lot of people seem to underutilize it's potential in is Trapinch. It's a banded monster, Stab Earthquake off of a base 100 max investment is no joke, especially with decent enough bulk to take one hit and answer back. I don't follow why you'd ever use it with a sash and stealth rock when you have an extremely solid setter in Glimmora even in a tier where it's practically guaranteed to go second. Sash Stealth Rock, T Spikes setting on physical leads, Mortal Spinning Hatterene making it far easier to answer long term, it's genuinely such a solid pokemon that it surprises me so few actually use it. It definitely deserves a place higher in the VR imo, that threat of Toxic Spikes and Poisoning alone is insane pressure in a tier where bulk is so important
I'll be real, I'm surprised and not super sold on Conk being made illegal while Ursa was kept safe. Hat was already a natural counter to it and was (and still is) used on a wide team variety. It was pretty mid on its special defense, made even easier to answer by the plethora of slow psychic types in the tier (Slow Twins, Hatterene, Reuniclus and it's prevo's). The real threat as I see it would be Ursa, stab Facade with access to Curse, Crunch, Stab Earthquake while being harder to defensively keep a hold on in a tier where Dondozo is really the most notable and widely regarded type adversary as it were, having super effective stab and being able to work around the Curse Boosts. until stab facade hits it and leaves it vulnerable to resting while something with Grass Knot gets opportunity to answer Dozo, leaving Ursa open to sweep again.
As my own aside, I've made it into the top 20 with a pretty solid team, and I find one of the most hilarious pokemon to really come into their own that a lot of people seem to underutilize it's potential in is Trapinch. It's a banded monster, Stab Earthquake off of a base 100 max investment is no joke, especially with decent enough bulk to take one hit and answer back. I don't follow why you'd ever use it with a sash and stealth rock when you have an extremely solid setter in Glimmora even in a tier where it's practically guaranteed to go second. Sash Stealth Rock, T Spikes setting on physical leads, Mortal Spinning Hatterene making it far easier to answer long term, it's genuinely such a solid pokemon that it surprises me so few actually use it. It definitely deserves a place higher in the VR imo, that threat of Toxic Spikes and Poisoning alone is insane pressure in a tier where bulk is so important
Hello, fellow TDM players. I-
...look, i'm gonna be blunt here.
i'm not good at voicing my thoughts in general, particularly here, since i almost entirely lurk, but i've been playing this meta pretty extensively lately (managed to hit top 5 on ladder at my peak pre conk ban, currently sitting around 13th now due to testing/meta shifts)
and came up with the (mildly outdated now due to conk ban/meta shifts) anti-meta sample team: https://pokepast.es/b1e44553d2a7594c
I've been able to beat well-known players in this format on occasion (though make no mistake, ho3n has absolutely rolled me most other times).
i feel like all this proof is unnecessary, but i want to show i know what i'm talking about here.
Now to get into the actual reason I'm making this post and not just lurking as usual:
I think the Luna/Greedent DNB's were a bad call. Why? Well, starting with this creature:
as much as i love this lil guy, he's way too much. the DNB reasoning for it stated dozo/other unawares as a check, alongside munchlax locking it into encore and being weak without setup. furthermore, phasers such as ting-lu and giratina serve as checks to them.
I first wanna talk about the weakness without setup, since that stands out to me as the oddest point. Most, if not all Greedents in mid-"high" ladder all run belly drum with a sitrus berry and cheek pouch, with a set somewhat like this:
Belly Drum gives Greedent an instant +6, while offsetting the downside of cutting your hp in half by fully restoring it via sitrus + cheek pouch. Because of this and its glacier slow 20 speed (as fast as torkoal, another banned mon for its power), the instant it gets a free turn it's going to threaten to win the game on the spot. is it reasonable to apply so much pressure that it can never get a free turn? possibly, but that seems like a lot of pressure for the opponent. i've been using Corviknight with iron defense + body press as an answer to Greedent and Ursaluna, whom i'll get into later, but this isn't even effective if corviknight isn't at practically full, and that's not always realistic given the things it needs to check/hazards to clear (if used that way):
+6 252+ Atk Greedent Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 260-306 (65.1 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(corv comes in, takes the initial hit, then can either roost or iron defense. if corv roosts:)
+6 252+ Atk Greedent Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 175-206 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Greedent Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 241-284 (60.4 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(if corv iron defenses:)
+6 252+ Atk Greedent Knock Off vs. +2 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 88-104 (22 - 26%) -- 4.4% chance to 4HKO
+6 252+ Atk Greedent Double-Edge vs. +2 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 120-142 (30 - 35.5%) -- 34.5% chance to 3HKO
if rocks are up, for any reason, there's even less margin for chip damage:
+6 252+ Atk Greedent Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 260-306 (65.1 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+6 252+ Atk Greedent Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 175-206 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+6 252+ Atk Greedent Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 241-284 (60.4 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
and this is assuming you bring corv in right away, and not factoring things like crits that can mean you still aren't safe. other steels/ghosts get outsped and ruined by earthquake, or knock off, or both. the only other thing i can think of is Skarmory, but not only is that a bad idea in a hatterene meta because of bouncing spikes, pokemon like heatran have been popping up on more teams, and mono fighting coverage is really bad into things like Slowking-galar or Giratina.
Well, what about Ting-Lu and Giratina?
+6 252+ Atk Greedent Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 474-558 (94 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Greedent Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina-Origin: 362-426 (71.9 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Giratina doesn't live unless it's the origin forme, a set that doesn't get to run leftovers and has to rely on the unreliable pain split or Rest for healing, and it has horrible 4mss as is.
Ting-Lu?
+6 252+ Atk Greedent Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 568-670 (110.5 - 130.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Greedent Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ting-Lu: 426-502 (82.8 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Greedent Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ting-Lu: 426-502 (82.8 - 97.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
unless you're absolutely max defense at full hp, you explode, in which case you barely survive on a pokemon that A, has other things to check, and B: has unreliable/no recovery.
This means that Dondozo/other unawares are the only checks that are consistent into Greedent. while Dozo is common, it brings up a question: should an unaware be mandatory on every team?
personally, i really don't think so; not only is that really restricting, since the list of unawares is limited, it's also really exploitable with the Greedent/Luna user's teammates. That and Dozo is kinda controversial in its own right because of curse set variety, soooo... but banning Dozo is not a good idea, so necessary evil, i suppose.
I'd almost forgotten the last point they brought up: Encore Munchlax. not gonna lie, i feel it's way too niche to be usable in wider ladder. poor (for this meta) bulk without eviolite, passivity/power issues without curse, coverage issues if you run encore... the only thing i can see is belly drum sets, but if you have encore bdrum you still have coverage issues.
overall, While Greedent technically has defensive counterplay, it's limited to unawares, inconsistent outside of unaware, and exploitable.
Next up, Creature #2:
Ursaluna was considered to be relatively threatening in the early Torkoal/Iron Ball meta, but kept in check due to its "high" speed stat of base 50, which is just shy of outspeeding pokemon like Hatterene after one speed drop. However, with the latter gone, it's starting to rear its ugly head again. Most of the sets i've seen so far are a variant of one of the following:
Ursaluna @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Curse/Hammer Arm
- Facade
- Headlong Rush/Earthquake
- Fire Punch/Crunch
Now what makes this so constricting is that again, defensive counterplay is very limited. How so? First off, let me take a look at the council reasoning for the DNB:
While i concede partly on the point about -1 speed issues, slowbro is no longer common, and the use of the word revenge means that it's implied something died first. that's kind of a problem, since unless you're Hyper Offense, most teams tend to need all 6 members for one thing or another, especially stall, which falls apart fast if even one member faints. this goes doubly so when you stack pokemon that need the same check, such as running Greedent and Luna.
you can even cover for bro/hatt with Luna's teammates, and or wish support to keep it in the game. (Granted, wish is a bit passive in such an explosive meta, but still, it's an option.)
Furthermore, Luna has to be significantly chipped for Hatt to revenge it at all:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ursaluna: 268-316 (57.7 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hatterene Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ursaluna: 303-357 (65.3 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
This is the strongest attack you can pull off (i haven't even really seen Psychic used ever in this meta over Psyshock/Psychic noise), and it still doesn't ohko due to Luna's bulk. note that not every Hatt will even be running this set, too. While specs is good at taking luna out, if luna is healthy enough for whatever reason, it's still not a clean ko, since at best you'd need to remove 30% of its health first. this seems more like an attempt to salvage the match than a reliable method of koing Luna.
it's funny how they mention corviknight as an answer, because it's actually not a defensive answer if they have fire punch:
252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 198-234 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- 68.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 198-234 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 296-350 (74.1 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 296-350 (74.1 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Even Facade does an uncomfortable amount of damage:
252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 138-163 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- 64.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 207-244 (51.8 - 61.1%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ok, what about sinistcha? well, it does take fire punch just fine... but:
252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sinistcha: 210-248 (60.6 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sinistcha: 314-370 (90.7 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
It hates crunch. Now, you could run an "I hate ursaluna" set and run Colbur Berry, but not only is that one time, It's fishy and unreliable everywhere else, since sinistcha in my experience is simply an alright mon, far too slow for the meta besides being a Luna check.
Now, what about dozo, that ever present blessing and curse onto the builder?
252+ Atk Dondozo Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ursaluna: 342-404 (73.7 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
252+ Def Dondozo Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ursaluna: 170-200 (36.6 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage
+1 252 Atk Dondozo Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ursaluna: 468-552 (100.8 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Dondozo: 261-307 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Dondozo: 174-205 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
I dunno, chief... dozo can't even hard switch in on facade after curse without risking dying to a 2hko. you *do* live if you curse after coming in... but that's assuming you come in on the curse turn and not a turn later, and you're not missing about... 20-30% of your health from checking anything else. and being forced to sleep in this meta is becoming more and more of a death sentence; at best it's a massive momentum loss, at worst it's a dead dozo. if even the unaware mon can't reliably defensively check this, what else can?
not to mention, you probably haven't actually done any damage to luna yet if you've cursed instead of attacking... so can't it just switch out and try this again? yes, it has limited time due to burn, but your options are already limited to handle it, and there's still a whole team backing it; these mons and scenarios don't exist in a void.
oh, and yes, it has another check now in Giratina-O, but:
+1 252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina-Origin: 328-386 (65.2 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina-Origin: 218-258 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
not only is this shaky, gira doesn't do enough back:
0 SpA Giratina-Origin Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ursaluna: 162-192 (34.9 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage
0 SpA Griseous Core Giratina-Origin Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ursaluna: 237-279 (59.1 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
and keep in mind, Gira has shaky/passive recovery and probably needs to do other things like defog or check dozo barring an untimely freeze.
Now you've probably come to the conclusion that you should run both corv and sinistcha/Gira-o on the same team. and you'd be right, i've done such. it puts luna in a checkmate situation where it can't break one or the other. However... isn't that really restrictive? you're dedicating 2 slots to check one mon's possible sets, leaving 4 to check the rest of the metagame. That doesn't sound very healthy to me...
Just like Greedent, Ursaluna's defensive counterplay is too limited, and even that can be bypassed with either coverage, team support, or sheer brute force.
Whew! now that was a lot of words. i think this is my biggest post on this forum in like... ever, and it'll be sent to the shadow realm in about 12 days. yaaay...
Still, i like this metagame. it's been the only metagame on showdown i've played for a good while since OU went to heck, and it's a breath of fresh air. still, there are some threats that are still too overbearing that need to be removed, and while my situations/calcs probably weren't perfect, i hope they get my points across and i'd be happy to debate them with others... later. this post took a while and i still need to do life things.
Munchlax is so insanely slept on right now, it's not even funny. 5 speed w/ encore makes it the most braindead setup-stopper of all time. Belly Drum being able to sweep is annoying too - you can essentially switch into anything that didn't attack you last turn and click encore for free, forcing a switch = free belly drum Being able to run eviolite as well makes it unsurprisingly fat as hell.
With the current environment being what it is, I may as well explain why I placed Do Not Ban votes on Ursaluna and Greedent, while I placed Ban on Conkeldurr:
I voted Ban on Conkeldurr - with some reluctance because Conk has handy strong priority and is one of the better Defoggers in the meta - because you have to prepare for Curse/Hammer Arm/Knock Off/Facade/Mach Punch Conk. Curse means that its offensive checks (e.g. Psychic-types, Enamorus-T, Spiritomb with Shadow Ball) are invalidated, as none of them take both of +1 Facade and Knock Off well, and all of them now speed tie or worse. Mach Punch means that Conk cannot be Encored into Curse. Dondozo gets 3HKOed by Guts Hammer Arm without Curse boosts, and it therefore is forced to run Curse. I was stuck putting a Conkeldurr switch-in on all my post-Power/Ball teams after the first ones, and half the time, the switch-in didn't work. Conkeldurr only being weak to Flying, Psychic, and Fairy - weaknesses not shared with many other high-tiered mons - forced me to specifically prepare for Conk with a mon I wasn't already using to check another must-answer...or was in the case of Slowking-G, but Slowking-G was forced to run Sludge Bomb for Hatterene and coverage for Kingambit, so now two of Chilly Reception or Slack Off or Trick can't get used. Conk therefore had too easy a time coming in, since its checks were rather specific.
In contrast, Ursaluna has a rough time coming in even against a team that is only prepared for Dondozo, Kingambit, and Clodsire - not Ursaluna specifically - and that is the primary reason why I voted Do Not Ban. Ursaluna shares a Grass weakness with Dondozo - a must-answer in the teambuilder, a Fighting weakness with Kingambit, and Water and Ice weaknesses with Unaware Clodsire. Ursaluna with 1 Curse can still be revenged by the entire base 30 Speed tier (notably including the Water-types Slowbro and Slowking) along with Hatterene, and even when the revenge kill isn't clean and they get KOed in the process, Ursaluna is typically so worn down afterwards that priority finishes it off. Ursaluna also thuds into Ghost + Flying/Levitate teams for a fair few turns - enough turns to significantly chip it - and such teams are surprisingly easy to make when Giratina is among the better Defoggers in the meta and so many of the meta's best mons are weak to Ground. I may be the only person on ladder with Landorus-T, but his Intimidate (especially repeated by switching with a Ghost) neutralizes Ursaluna to the point that it must Curse again. An Ursaluna set with both STABs and coverage for both Corviknight and Giratina-O/Sinistcha cannot have Curse or Hammer Arm and therefore gets outsped by even more. Dondozo wipes out half or more of Ursaluna's HP, even if it can't switch in. Ursaluna is a mite too hard to get in and wears itself down quite easily, and these are the reasons why my opinion on Ursaluna has still not changed after Conkeldurr got banned. Speaking of Conk, Eviolite Iron Fist Gurdurr is a surprisingly competent Defogger and Curse user (not both at the same time), and it prevents Ursaluna from coming in and it Mach Punches Ursaluna in desperation.
I voted Do Not Ban on Greedent, regardless of how annoying its fast Belly Drum can be, because I still do not feel like I need to specifically prepare for it in the teambuilder. Dondozo is on seemingly at least a quarter of teams and breezes through Greedent, even after its item gets removed by Knock Off. Greedent cannot safely Belly Drum in front of any Encore user (e.g. Munchlax, Snorlax, Reuniclus, Arboliva, Granbull), even ones it outspeeds. Greedent needs multiple priority moves to take down post-Belly Drum at full HP, but multiple-priority teams are competent. Due to its mediocre base Attack, Greedent forces out surprisingly little pre-Belly Drum, and chunking it while it Drums (or Knock Offs anticipating the Dondozo switch-in) means that it falls to one priority move afterwards. Teams need to be specifically built to enable Greedent, and even then, they may not be able to KO every mon that can stop a Greedent sweep in time.
Foongus @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb
- Foul Play
- Pollen Puff (idk what last move to put here)
+6 252+ Atk Life Orb Foongus Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Greedent: 495-584 (111.4 - 131.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Foongus Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ursaluna: 424-502 (91.3 - 108.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO (87.5% chance to OHKO after burn damage)
252+ SpA Life Orb Foongus Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dondozo: 499-588 (99 - 116.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Foongus Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 421-499 (106.8 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Foongus Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking: 328-385 (83.2 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Foongus Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 242-283 (76.1 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
However, this does not change my view that Ursaluna and Greedent should be banned.
The only viable Encorers at base speed of 50 or less are Sableye, Donphan, Snorlax, Quagsire, Solosis, Reuniclus, and Munchlax.
The only viable Taunters at base speed of 50 or less are Sableye, Muk-Alola, Kingambit, Ting-Lu, Gurdurr, Copperajah, Slowking-Galar, and Dusclops.
Viable Prankster Encore/Taunters are Volbeat/Illumise, Grimmsnarl, and Sableye.
Ursaluna:
Ursaluna should be banned. Claiming that Ursaluna is somehow checked by Giratina-O and Corviknight is wrong, as it can easily 2HKO both of them using Crunch and Fire Punch, and being forced to run both Corviknight and Giratina-O to avoid matchup fishing is definitely uncompetitive. Furthermore, does Ursaluna even need to use Earthquake/Headlong Rush? The only 3 relevant Pokemon that become strong against an Ursaluna with Facade, Fire Punch, Crunch, and Curse are Sableye, Garganacl, and Heatran, which are somewhat uncommon.
Even so, what's the point if you can revenge kill Ursaluna? They can easily switch out to a safer Pokemon, such as Donbozo, Slowking-Galar, Slowbro, etc to counter your Foongus, Gurdurr, Donbozo, etc. Whatever revenge killer you send in against Ursaluna can almost always be checked by a viable defensive/offensive Pokemon in the tier. However, almost every Pokemon has a decent chance to get OHKOed by a +1 Ursaluna.
Greedent:
Greedent should be banned since it can easily find setup opportunities without support from its team, as it can enter against Pokemon such as Hatterene, Slowking-Galar, Copperajah, and various niche Pokemon with its ridiculous speed stat only fearing Prankster Taunt/Encore, Reuniclus/Solosis, Munchlax, and sole offensive check of Foongus. These opportunities are furthered by Light Clay and Screens providing even more bulk to use Belly Drum and immediately sweep teams. Does being forced to use multiple priority moves, Unaware, or somewhat weak Encore Pokemon to beat Greedent not demonstrate its brokenness? Any viable defensive Pokemon that doesn't use Unaware can easily get OHKOed with hazards or 2HKOed by Greedent's Body Slam, Fire Fang, Earthquake, or Knock Off.
+6 252+ Atk Greedent Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 474-558 (94 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Greedent Fire Fang vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 350-412 (87.7 - 103.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Greedent Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hydrapple: 331-390 (79.5 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Greedent Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt: 384-452 (101 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The only viable Encorers at base speed of 50 or less are Sableye, Donphan, Snorlax, Quagsire, Solosis, Reuniclus, and Munchlax.
The only viable Taunters at base speed of 50 or less are Sableye, Muk-Alola, Kingambit, Ting-Lu, Gurdurr, Copperajah, Slowking-Galar, and Dusclops.
I mentioned in my post above Arboliva and Granbull as Encore users. Yes, they both have less than base 50 Speed. Yes, they are both viable. I use Granbull when I need a Dark and Fighting resist that doesn't rip open Ice or Electric weaknesses (unlike Enamorus-T or the Water/Fairy-types) and can actually take a physical hit. I use Arboliva when I need a Ghost-immune that breaks Dondozo and resists Ground.
I should emphasize Spiritomb as, yes, a viable Taunt user with less than 50 base Speed. Being a Ghost-type not weak to Dark and therefore can take most Knock Offs better is very nice. Having more bulk than Sableye and not thudding completely into other Dark-types is also very nice. I trust Spiritomb more than Sableye overall. Shame that Spiritomb only slowly breaks Fighting-types if it uses Dark STAB only.
Conkeldurr
Greedent
Ursaluna
Giratina-Origin
Azumarill
Crawdaunt
Breloom
Comfey
Dusknoir
Giratina
Gurdurr
Kingambit
Muk-Alola
Palafin
Raging Bolt
Rillaboom
Scizor
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
Urshifu
Foongus
Munchlax
Pineco
Pincurchin
Sandygast
Trapinch
Wooper-Paldea
Clodsire
Solosis
Cottonee
Grafaiai
Murkrow
Illumise
Sableye
Volbeat
Whimsicott
Carbink
Cresselia
Deoxys-defense
Dusclops
Mimikyu
Solgaleo
Dondozo
Hatterene
Copperajah
Grimmsnarl
Hydrapple
Reuniclus
Sinistcha
Slowbro
Slowking
Slowking-Galar
Alomomola
Avalugg
Corviknight
Dragalge
Enamorus-Therian
Garganacl
Gholdengo
Hariyama
Heatran
Snorlax
Ting-Lu
Abomasnow
Amoonguss
Araquanid
Archaludon
Arboliva
Basculegion-F
Bellibolt
Blissey
Bronzong
Camerupt
Chansey
Chesnaught
Clearable
Cleffa
Crabominable
Donphan
Empoleon
Exeggutor-Alola
Forretress
Garchomp
Golem-Alola
Goodra-Hisui
Gliscor
Granbull
Gumshoos
Hoopa-Unbound
Incineroar
Iron Hands
Jirachi
Klefki
Kyurem
Landorus-Therian
Latios
Latias
Ludicolo
Lurantis
Magnezone
Mudsdale
Pelipper
Primarina
Quagsire
Rhyperior
Rotom-Wash
Samurott-Hisui
Skarmory
Skeledirge
Slowbro-Galar
Sudowoodo
Toxapex
Tyranitar
Vikavolt
Vileplume
Weezing-Galar
Wo-Chien
Zacian-Crowned
Zamazenta-Crowned
Appletun
Armarouge
Avalugg-Hisui
Chandelure
Chi-Yu
Coalossal
Clawitzer
Deoxys-Attack
Diancie
Dipplin
Dragonite
Drifblim
Dudunsparce
Excadrill
Exeggutor
Flutter Mane
Glimmora
Golett
Golurk
Hippowdon
Hoopa
Indeedee
Iron Bundle
Iron Treads
Iron Valiant
Landorus
Meloetta
Meowscarada
Moltres
Necrozma
Ninetales
Ogerpon-Hearthflame
Okidogi
Orthworm
Palossand
Perrserker
Rabsca
Tentacruel
Terapagos
Thundurus-Therian
Tinkaton
Toedscruel
Trevenant
Spiritomb
Swampert
Vaporeon
Walking Wake
Zacian
Zapdos
