The Great Regional FRIENDLY Debate: Unova vs. Orre

By Daylight, drampa's grandpa, and Pikachu315111. Released: 2023/02/22.
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The Great Regional FRIENDLY Debate: Unova vs. Orre art
Lumari

Lumari

With a new generation of Pokémon games, we're all caught up again in the eternal debate of which one of all of these regions was truly the best. And while, for legal reasons, we should of course add that this is one of those questions that don't have a singular correct answer, it does make for a great occasion to look back on what we've all enjoyed about these regions.

We've done series similar to this one last generation and the generation before as well, and to keep things fresh, we'll be changing things up a bit, where we're no longer reviewing every single region out there but also will be including a few regions from outside the mainline games. Today, we'll be looking at the two regions that continued their plot in a followup version: Unova and Orre!

Who had the most interesting... plot and why?

Pikachu315111

Pikachu315111

With both regions having "two" games, the second being a sequel with a different but connected story, there's a lot of plot to cover. Covering Unova first because it has the most plot, each game has multiple stories occurring. Both of course feature the Pokémon League story (defeating the Gyms, Elite Four, and Champion) and the Villain Team story (in this case, Team Plasma). But Gen 5 was notable in this case, as they played with how the two stories interwove. In Black & White, the two stories that are mostly kept separate (with the Villain Team story usually resolving before you're challenging the Pokémon League) instead meet at the end, as the goal of Team Plasma's King, N, is to become Champion to enforce his beliefs upon the region (and from there the world). And he succeeds, becoming the Champion who the player battles; however, upon his defeat, the true mastermind behind Team Plasma, Ghetsis, reveals his scheme to take over the world and presents himself as the final boss of the main story (with the proper Pokémon League story being wrapped up in the postgame). Black 2 & White 2 go back to keeping the stories mostly separate, but instead of the player's initial goal being part of the Pokémon League story, it starts on the Villain Team story, as your childhood friend & rival, Hugh, wants to hunt down Team Plasma to get his sister's stolen Purrloin back. The player taking on the Pokémon League is even seen a few times as training to take on Team Plasma, at least in Hugh's eyes. But Hugh's mission begins to unravel as a new faction of Team Plasma appears with a new scheme to take over the world by force, as well as fighting with the members who are still loyal to N. If this sounds like a lot, that's because it is. Gen 5 was very ambitious with its story, putting it on the forefront, moreso Black & White but Black 2 & White 2 was still about the main focus of the plot: the Villain Team story.

With that we segue into Orre, where things are much more straightforward. It's really only the Villain Team story in both games: Cipher. The Colosseum games are much more like a typical (J)RPG than the core series games, which isn't a bad thing. It lets the games develop their own identity without having the Pokémon League story to lean on, giving more focus to Cipher's and their plan of taking over the world using Shadow Pokémon. The closest thing to another story would be purifying all the Shadow Pokémon, but since some Shadow Pokémon aren't available until the postgame, that's a minor goal in the main game. Here is where I would go into more detail, but to keep things brief, the biggest difference between the two games (in terms of setup) is just where the main character starts and how they detect Shadow Pokémon. You can play XD: Gale of Darkness without having played Colosseum and probably wouldn't miss much; mostly because they made a retcon so that in XD you're now facing the TRUE Cipher, while the ones in Colosseum were just a regional branch (rumor has it that originally the previous protagonist, Wes, was going to be the main villain in XD after taking over Cipher, but I can't find evidence if that was ever the case). On their own, as individual games, there's nothing wrong with the sequel sharing same plot beats with the previous game. But, for me, a sequel that is directly built upon the game before it and is able to tell a different kind of plot (and be good, I think that's an important detail) will get the extra kudos. [B]Unova plots a win![/B]

Who had the most interesting... characters and why?

Pikachu315111

Pikachu315111

Orre lost last round so we'll start with it. The Colosseum games' plots may not be complex, but they do have style! And this style mostly shows off with the characters. Wes and Michael are pretty cool protagonists who have a deeper backstory than the ones from the core series. Rui and the Orre Pokémon HQ Lab team (notably Wes's mother Lily, little sister Jovi, and lead researcher Professor Krane) are their main supporting cast, all bringing different but vibrant personalities. Rounding things out we have the not on but two villain teams, the group of Pokémon thieves Team Snagem and the masterminds behind the Shadow Pokémon, Cipher. While Team Snagam sadly falls to the wayside (with only their leader Gonzap having any lasting impression) and is treated mostly as a joke, Cipher is treated as a serious threat, as we see how they've infiltrated and manipulate Orre and its citizens (technically you're dealing with two different Cipher groups, a regional branch in the first game and the actual team in the second). The most memorable members would be the sinister leaders and their quirky set of admins, though there are a few grunts who also stand out. Speaking of quirky, the protagonists are helped out by plenty of NPCs they meet along the way, who not only stand out as notable but also help with worldbuilding, as they often have important roles in the Orre region. However, this is where we hit our first road bump: the names of the characters aren't the easiest to remember. This results in the Cipher admins blending together and causes the important NPC's roles to feel smaller, as you at best remember what they do to help the protagonists. This isn't a problem while playing the games, but in hindsight it can make it difficult to remember details about the game. Of course, I would be reprimanded if I did not mention the most notable character: Miror B.! Though, truth be told, in the grand scheme of things Miror B. plays mostly a minor role, as a Cipher admin in the first game and a free agent in the second. But I'd be lying if I said he didn't have style and great battle themes, LET THE MUSIC PLAY!

Orre's characters likely suffer most by being from a side game; especially in an article where it's being put up against a core series region. I probably need little prompting to get you to name the villain team and notable members of Unova. Same with the members of the Pokémon League such as Gym Leaders, Elite Four, and the Champion. Even the rivals and Professors you likely know. I won't lie, a lot of that does have to do with Black & White and Black 2 & White 2 being core series games. But that's only an initial spark, because most of Unova's characters had a major role in the intertwining plots as well as their own personalities and actions. Unova was the first region to really give each Gym Leader jobs and the role they play in the city they're Gym Leader of. The rivals all have their own goals and reasons to be on their journey, all getting character development as the story unfolds. And do I even need to mention the complexity of the Team Plasma plot and all of its characters. Granted, not all character left a mark, as many of the Sages just felt pointless and Anthea and Concordia feel like much of their involvement was cut. But wanting more is sometimes a sign a story did its job right. That's another point in Unova's favor, as it used its sequel games to further expand upon the characters we were familiar with in the first game, filling that "wanting more" feeling. Orre did this too to an extent, but I think one problem Orre had was the games taking place five years apart, in-lore. That's enough time where new status quos can settle in, making it feel like a change from the first game has always been there if you didn't know or weren't told. The Unova games take place two years apart, in-lore. It's a period where new status quos are being set up as the region is just getting over the events of the previous game, so their presence is still lingering and affecting the characters. In the end, I can name the fourteen characters who held the Gym Leader title in the Unova games before naming the nine admins of Cipher, [B]Unova wins again[/B]!

Who had the most interesting... Pokémon and why?

Pikachu315111

Pikachu315111

Orre goes first again. Orre has an uphill battle here. Not being a new generation of games, Orre has to make do with the Pokémon that were around during Generation 3 (with one exception, maybe two how you consider things). You would think this would be a very limiting restriction, but that's where the developers and Game Freak got clever. First off, they made Orre a barren region; there are no Wild Pokémon in the first Colosseum, and in XD there's a whopping nine (which can be a bit of a hassle to get). This goes with the game's gimmick and the first way they spiced up the formula: Shadow Pokémon. Shadow Pokémon are Pokémon whose hearts have been forced to close, making them more vicious; they also no longer gain levels, but that's not a problem, as they learn "Shadow Moves", which are supereEffective against all non-Shadow Pokémon. They can be purified, gaining back moves of other types and the experience and levels they would have gained from battles they were in, but the problem is that all Shadow Pokémon are owned by not the kindest of Trainers. The player needs to use a Snagging Machine to "snag" (aka steal, but in the name of good) the Shadow Pokémon so they can be purified. So not only are you dealing with slightly different type chart mechanics, if your opponent sends out a Shadow Pokémon you need to change your strategy from simply knocking it out to catching it. The second way they mix things up is that all battles are Double Battles, so unlike the core series you need to take into account how the Pokémon you send out synergize (type coverage, move targeting, ability interaction, battling roles, etc.) and that the opponent too has two Pokémon so there may be times you won't completely have the type advantage. Finally, because the Game Boy Color games couldn't trade with the Game Boy Advance games, it meant many Johto Pokémon were still inaccessible (after Fire Red & Leaf Green had given access to all the Kanto Pokémon). It was decided for most of the Shadow Pokémon of the first game to be Generation II Pokémon. The second game was more diverse with its Shadow Pokémon, but it still helped fill in some gaps, especially with the cover Pokémon. While technically no new Pokémon were introduced, XD had two special cases: Munchlax, as a minor NPC, and Shadow Lugia. Shadow Lugia was made to be the ultimate Shadow Pokémon, unable to be purified by normal means, which changes its appearance to a more sinister one; as you can imagine its a very popular design within the fan community (FUN FACT: Shadow Lugia was designed by James Turner based on sketches made by the series art director, Hiromoto SIN-Ichi) but sadly it was only ever available in XD and never referenced outside it (no, the alternate Mewtwo colors in Super Smash Bros barely counts).

I give credit to Orre for doing as much as it could with its restricted Pokémon selection... BUT there's nothing that really beats an entire new generation of Pokémon. Worse yet, it's Unova, Generation V, which it's up against; the generation that introduced the MOST Pokémon to date. This was because Black & White's gimmick was all new Pokémon for the main story, to emphasize it being the first non-Japan-based region. This gave the monster creators a lot of room to play with, putting new spins on analogues of older Pokémon, including more of the "rarer" types, doing more stuff with forme differences and other mechanics, etc.. Of course, I can't talk about the Generation V Pokémon without addressing some of the criticism like the more overt object Pokémon or the elemental monkeys just existing as a tutorial boss and possible early type coverage. I'm not going to address each one, and in the bigger picture it didn't really matter (at least I wasn't bothered by it), but hey, you could also argue that these too made these game's Pokémon interesting. And that's the name of the game: which had the most interesting Pokémon? [B]Unova introduced an entire new generation of them[/B]!

Both these regions have "sequel" games that involve the player revisiting the regions a significant amount of time after the events of the first game. Which games handled this better and why?

Pikachu315111

Pikachu315111

Sorry Orre, but there's no beating Unova at this point. But maybe you can still win the bonus question to prevent a complete blowout. As previously stated, in-lore, the Colosseum games take place five years apart. While I mentioned this would have muted any lasting effect the regional branch of Cipher had on the region (which is probably something they would want to happen so maybe intentional on Cipher's part), in terms of the region itself not much has changed. Most of the locations from Colosseum return in XD, letting you see how the residents there have changed in five years, there are new locations (mostly to serve the story), and in one case the disappearance of a location is explained (The Under no longer exists in XD because Cipher considered it a place its enemies could hide in, namely the former admins of the regional branch, so they buried it with a cave-in). Though it reuses a lot of locations from the first game, Orre uses it effectively to tell a new story. Those who played the previous game will be familiar enough to know where to go and notice what's new, letting the story lead them than feeling the need to explore like you would in a new location before advancing to the next story event. And since enough years have passed, you get to see how some older villain locations have been repurposed, like the Realgam Tower, or new discoveries about the region have been made, such as the Poké Spots where you can catch some wild Pokémon. XD's Orre is Colosseum's Orre region but evolved, providing you more than the original but also being its own place which doesn't overshadow its previous incarnation.

Being only 2 years apart, Black 2 & White 2's Unova is still experiencing the fallout of Team Plasma's schemes in Black & White. It's the crux on which the player and especially the rival uses to start their journey. And it doesn't take long for you to encounter the new Team Plasma causing trouble and getting involved. Since now you're just an ordinary trainer who just so happened to be in the right place at the right time, as opposed to Black & White where you were (forced to be) part of Team Plasma's plan, it can feel like a bit of a downgrade. But that's really the most negative I could be about Black 2 & White 2's plot, as everything else feels like it handles better. Most everything I said about Orre can apply here, possibly even more. There are plenty of new locations, and while some serve the story, others are just there to add onto Unova's history and geography. Many older locations have new details and features, some extensive in their scope. A few places vanish to make room for new ones; notably. Driftveil's Cold Storage is replaced by the Pokémon World Tournament, and Route 10 (and the Victory Road there) gets buried in a landslide so a new Victory Road is built. Though to get to it you need to travel up from Undella Town (which itself has gone under major reconstruction) to Humilau City, west to a new entrance to Giant Chasm (whose old entrance was blocked off due to the landslide), and finally up a river and cliff to get to the new Victory Road's entrance; I appreciate them going into detail how cumbersome it is to get around when the straightforward path gets blocked off. N's Castle can be revisited though mostly for an N-related event, though for those who remember N's Room in Black & White (a somewhat unsettling colorful playroom more befitting a young kid than older teen/young adult, the toys described to have been recently played with, accompanied by a music box version of N's theme) will find it very different in Black 2 & White 2 (falling apart, colors dulled and darkened, the toys thrown about carelessly, and the music box broken and out of tune; not even N can stand being in that room for long). I'll finish by saying this: if Orre was a 2-stage evolution, Unova is a 3-stage with a Mega Evolution. [B]UNOVA TAKES IT ALL![/B]

Who had the most interesting... plot and why?

drampa's grandpa

drampa's grandpa

In Orre the plot is driven by the actions of Cipher and Team Snagem. Although these teams contain and bring you into contact with many colorful characters, ultimately there is little continuous plot other than running from base to base to defeat different admins and compete in different tournaments, with the occasional sidequest thrown in. Compare this to Unova, where the plot is, by a Pokémon game's standards, deep, multileveled, and well paced. Black and White take the given in Pokémon games, that a Pokémon wants to be with its Trainer, and questions it, while showing a villain who can cleverly exploit the indecisiveness that arises from said questioning. Black 2 / White 2 show how Team Plasma evolves from a purely criminal organization following the fall of Ghetsis and the new paths it takes.

Overall Unova wins this category by a mile, and in my opinion would win against any mainline Pokémon game.

Who had the most interesting... characters and why?

drampa's grandpa

drampa's grandpa

Welcome to the world of 2003! You're playing Pokémon Colosseum for the first time, and expecting a rather boring prologue where you meet a completely bland self-insert protagonist, at most a somewhat edgy or mean rival, and The Pokémon Professor. But instead your gangster protagonist blows up a building, starting off a quest wherein he beats up a disco dancer with 4 Ludicolo which genuinely look like they're dancing as his Pokémon, an influencer, and someone from Dragon Ball Z who somehow ended up in Pokémon. In XD: Gale of Darkness even more quirky characters were added, such as Chobin, the assistant to Professor Kaminko, with his quirky personality and battle strategy, and new admins including an admin that looks more like a monkey than a human and a recurring group of sextuplets that can't seems to count to six.

In contrast to the Orre games, Unova's characters are infamous for directly asking you to challenge your preconceptions about what constitutes the relationship between people and Pokémon. While the protagonists and their immediate friend group take an approach that utilizes the ‘Mary Sue' archetype common to most Pokémon games, other characters, notably N and Ghetsis, have convoluted backstories and hidden agendas.

Who had the most interesting... Pokémon and why?

drampa's grandpa

drampa's grandpa

The generation 5 Pokémon get ragged on a lot, and when I first played through Pokémon White I did the same thing (where's my Lucario). But looking back at what was introduced in that generation there are so many amazing Pokémon, from multiple badass bugs like Volcarona to adorable derps like Stunfisk.

On the other hand, the Shadow Pokémon of Orre are one of the most unique mechanics ever seen. However, the selection is rather limited, and in Colosseum especially they're notably one-note and a pain to use before purification.

This one is going to go to the Unova games.

Both these regions have "sequel" games that involve the player revisiting the regions a significant amount of time after the events of the first game. Which games handled this better and why?

drampa's grandpa

drampa's grandpa

Cipher has been defeated at the end of Pokémon Colosseum, presumably for good. All is well in the land, besides giant miscolored Lugia flying around stealing ships in the opening sequence. But then uh-oh! Somehow Palpatine, I mean Cipher, has returned. The organization has changed very little in aim, but none of the characters except everyone's favorite disco diva Miror B. (and his peons) return. We are told the region is changing but other than the occasional throwaway returning character and the Pokéspots we don't much get to see how. The battle style is very much the same as in Colosseum

Meanwhile, or at least real-life years later, in Unova… at the end of Black and White we see Team Plasma defeated, but not destroyed. N flies off, Ghetsis escapes with the help of ninjas, and the Seven Sages are scattered but not imprisoned. When Team Plasma returns in Pokémon Grey- I mean Gray- I mean Black 2 / White 2 we get a very clear vision of how it has changed. The region has also been completely reorganized, with a completely fresh early-game, a reorganized late-game, and new and memorable activities and areas to explore throughout the region. The reintroduction of previous generations' Pokémon into the region fixes one of the few issues I had with the original games and made these stand out among sequels.

Both XD: Gale of Darkness and Black 2 / White 2 are unique, and stand out among other games in their gameplay and the vibe that they bring. However Black 2 / White 2 both more directly improve on the flaws of their prequels and flow better as a story.[/hide]

Who had the most interesting... plot and why?

Daylight

Daylight

The plot of Black and White is good. Usually one of the better Pokémon plots. The plot of Pokémon Colosseum is, I think, actually equally as good. I think you can even argue that the big twist and reveal is actually harder to see coming in Colosseum, since Team Plasma seems so overtly sinister right out of the gate. And while Colosseum lacks in dialogue and character development as compared to Unova games, it makes up for it a lot in setting and atmosphere and scene dressing. For me, this is a tie.

Who had the most interesting... characters and why?

Daylight

Daylight

This is such a hard question for me, because I LOVE the lawless atmosphere and general characterization of Orre and its inhabitants, but it's hard to compete with Unova's characters. While I love characters like Lovrina, Miror B., Reath and Ferma, Gonzap, and so on, characters like Elesa, Cheren, Bianca, N, Caitlyn, and so on are some of the best in the whole seriew. Unova wins.

Who had the most interesting... Pokémon and why?

Daylight

Daylight

Orre. Full stop. Hands down. No questions asked. Black and White's entirely new regional Dex was a mistake. Creative? Yes. A good concept? Yes. Well executed? No. (At least not to me.)

My issue with Unova is that it doesn't have enough memorable standout designs in its Dex. There are a couple, sure, like Volcarona for example. But I think it says a lot that my favorite Unovan designs are Hisui's superior remixes of Zorua and Lilligant. As a result, despite their superior story beats and compelling characters, Black and White feel nearly unplayable to me without modding the games to include Pokémon I like.

While Orre has an even more restricted Dex, it's restricted in a way that's connected to the storyline, rather than an arbitrary reset. It also forces creative in-game teambuilding and gives less popular Pokémon, particularly generation 2 Pokémon like Misdreavus and Jumpluff, a chance to shine. I'll also admit to a lot of personal bias here, as the generation 2 and 3 Dexes are just way more appealing to me personally than the generation 5 Dex. Also: Eeveelutions >>>>>>>>> all other starters. Can we just make Eevee a starter option in every game?

Both these regions have "sequel" games that involve the player revisiting the regions a significant amount of time after the events of the first game. Which games handled this better and why?

Daylight

Daylight

While I love XD: Gale of Darkness and find it extremely fun and nostalgic, it's hard to deny that it polished away a lot of the edgy, gritty, lawless charm that made Colosseum so memorable. The transition from Colosseum to XD sees us going from playing as the uniquely grown-up anti-hero Wes to the more Poké-typical 12 year old Michael. Orre itself has also gone through a makeover, and while some of it is appreciated—such as the new move animations, locations like Gateon Port, and improved character models—locations like the Under are erased and the lawlessness and wastelandness of the region is diminished. Connection to the previous story is also limited, with basically no mentions of Wes and Rui, the previous Cipher admins, or even side characters like Reath and Ferma. In contrast, Black 2 and White 2 let us visit an expanded and enriched Unova, with the events that took place in the original Black and White very much relevant. Unova is the clear winner for me.[/hide]


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Lumari

Lumari

Join us next time and see how Kanto holds up against the regions that have tried to follow in its footsteps!

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