SM Doubles OU "Your Trick Room is aids"

[Un passant ordinaire]

Introduction​

Hey guys. I wanted to show you the team that got me in high elo in the SM Doubles OU. I can stay at the top 20 with this team as long as my bad luck doesn't show up. I even got the third place once. It is an offensive Trick Room based team as you guessed. Trick Room has always been my favorite archetype, I was playing it in Triples back to ORAS times. But uninfortunatly, Triples don't exist anymore, so I decided to play Doubles when SM came out. If you like to have speed control, good offensive presence and some bulk, this team is for you. It packs only special attackers (Mimikyu doesn't hit hard anyway), so Intimidate is an useless ability against this team, which is nice considering how popular this ability is.

Teambuilding Process​

Hide

My team started from this little guy. When I first saw it, I knew he was meant to put Trick Room reliably thanks to Disguise. You put a Mental Herb on it and you get something able to laugh at Fake Out, Taunt and double targetting. That's everything a Trick Room setter needs. Some people even use two Taunters just to make sure Mimikyu won't put TR.

I decided then to try Wishiwashi with Mimikyu because of his stats. He's slow, bulky, powerful, in short perfect for a Trick Room team. I tried it a lot and decided to keep it : it threatens a lot of the metagame's top threats under Trick Room as it's able to beat, for example, Landorus-T, Tapu Koko, Zygarde, Marshadow, Diancie, M-Salamence. It can survive well outside of it and although his movepool isn't great, it doesn't need more than a STAB and Ice Beam to kill.

I have a Trick Room setter and a good sweeper. But some bulky Pokémon like Celesteela, Aegislash and Ferrothorn give my big fish some troubles. I needed some fire, so I took Volcanion. Why Volcanion and not Torkoal for example ? First because of his ability, Water Absorb. I can use Surf on Wishiwashi for a precise and strong STAB that also heals Volcanion. Second, there isn't a lot of things that like to tank a Heat Wave/Surf combo. Another fact : he's able to 2HKO nearly the whole metagame. A Fire and Water STAB on the same Pokémon is insanely good, and his coverage allows him to hit effectively Tapu Fini with Sludge Bomb or opponent's Volcanion with Earth Power if he got one.

I have two Water-Type Pokémon. It's easy to guess that opponent's Suicune, Gastrodon and Tapu Fini can wall me easily, so I added a powerful Electric-Type : Xurkitree. Seriously, this thing hit like a truck with it's 489 Special Attack stat. And if it gets a kill, it will go out of control. It has access to Energy Ball to surprise Gastrodon and Tyranitar, Volt Switch to grab some momentum, Dazzling Gleam as a spread move, and Signal Beam to say hello to Hoopa-U.

I have now a good offense. But Trick Room doesn't last forever, I needed another setter. Also, I quickly discovered that in Doubles, setup moves aren't trash like they were in Triples. They are very dangerous (especially when Extreme Evoboost wasn't banned). Snorlax could just stomp me if Volcanion couldn't get a burn, Coil Milotic and Misty Seed Zapdos were a pain, and Quiver Dance Volcarona was dangerous. I really needed a Hazer, so I decided to play Dusclops. He's very tanky, it can survive a lot of double-targetting as long as the moves it takes aren't both super effective, and it can learn Haze ! This is why I took Dusclops instead of Porygon2 or Hoopa-U. Even if it can't recover as reliably as Porygon2 and isn't as threatening as Hoopa-U, Dusclops can still hurt a bit with Night Shade, and recover with Pain Split. Moreover, Frisk is an extremely valuable ability : to know the item your opponent gave to his Pokémon is to know the set their Pokémon run 9 times out of 10.

One place was left. I wanted a Mega-Evolution that could resist Earthquake (because outside of Trick Room, I'm weak to it). So Mega-Abomasnow was chosen. I used to run Mega-Tyranitar before because it gave me a good matchup against weather-based teams (and especially Mega-Zard Y which was more popular than now), but that Fairy weakness was annoying in this meta full of fairies, and every sand team with a Storm Drainer (Cradily or Gastrodon) could fuck me when my first TR was over : I had nothing able to resist EQ effectively outside of my Dusclops (which is vulnerable to Taunt). So I replaced the dinosaur with Obama. Its Blizzard is incredibly threatening, its Grass STAB gives me another way to deal with Water types, and you can either have a priority move or a Focus Blast to show your love to Ferrothorn and Heatran (disclaimer: it misses a lot more than 30% of the time).

The team is now complete, let's check those sets.

The Team​

Mimiku dayo ! (Mimikyu) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Play Rough
- Protect
- Destiny Bond
​

The main TR setter of the team, and often my lead. The Mental Herb is the best item for it, trust me, because the first TR is the most important of the game. I play it with a full investissement in Special Defense to survive to Aegislash, Heatran and Tapu Lele if it doesn't run Psyshock. If it got double targetted and still was able to put TR, you can then use Destiny Bound to get a kill and one of the sweepers in the place. I choose Play Rough over Shadow Claw to threaten Scrafty. Protect looks weird on it I know, but it's extremely good : Mimikyu will get double targetted very very very veeeeeeery often, so Protect gives its partner the opportunity to get a hit, and hopefully a kill : to start a 5v6 match is always good. But if you don't like Protect, you can run Will-O-Wisp instead to cripple things like Snorlax.

Sushi master (Wishiwashi) @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Schooling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Surf
- Hydro Pump
- Protect
- Ice Beam
​

Wishiwashi is a powerhouse under Trick Room. The dual STAB looks weird too, but they aren't redundant : Hydro Pump gives me the OHKO on things like Tapu Koko, Tyranitar without sand, Excadrill and Mega-Diancie, while Surf is a more accurate and spread move that heals my Volcanion. Ice Beam takes care of Zygarde, Garchomp, Zapdos, Mega-Salamence and Skymin, without needing the presence of Abomasnow. The Aguav Berry heals Wishiwashi when it's about to become the weakest Pokémon on earth. Be carefull though : if it falls under 25% because of the sand or the hail, it will take his solo form before it eats its berry. Protect is the obligatory move in Doubles to survive double-targetting and wait for TR to be put (or to finish if your opponent has slower Pokémon like Mega-Camerupt or Ferrothorn).

Boiler (Volcanion) @ Firium Z
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Heat Wave
- Steam Eruption
- Sludge Bomb
- Protect
​

This is the Pokemon that can give troubles to the whole metagame bar Gastrodon and Suicune. The Firium Z lures Wide Guard users like Aegislash and Celesteela, and they both get OHKO by Inferno Overdrive. It also OHKO Marshadow, Zapdos without any boost and Amoonguss, three major threats for my team. Ferrothorn's Protect isn't safe for it either as it loses around 80% of its HP. Sludge Bomb gives me the 2HKO on Tapu Fini, Tapu Lele and Mega-Gardevoir, and it guarantees the KO on Tapu Bulu @ Assault Vest if it took another hit before (Wishi's Surf for example). Protect is mandatory as always, so you can't take on an enemy Volcanion with yours. Suicune and Gastrodon wall it anyway, so you absolutely need Xurkitree to break them.

Bzzzzt (Xurkitree) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Signal Beam
- Energy Ball
​

As I said, Xurkitree is the Water types killer. With its stupidly high Special Attack, Xurkitree can't be ignored or it will sweep half of your team. I opted for the Assault Vest for more survivability because it's frailer than a stick, it won't even have the time to eat a berry. It so can take care of Water types like Suicune or Tapu Fini easily thanks to Thunderbolt, and Energy Ball greets Gastrodon, Rotom-W and Tyranitar. Volt Switch is a good way to get momentum while hitting. I took Signal Beam over Dazzling Gleam to catch Hoopa-U off guard : if it's a TR setter, it will be slower than Xurkitree outside of TR, so with a good prediction when chosing your lead, you have a 87,5% chance of getting a sweet boost turn 1. A thing to take care of is that it's pretty fast for a TR team with its 153 Speed, so it can pressure other Trick Room teams.

Socks (Dusclops) @ Eviolite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Night Shade
- Pain Split
- Haze
​

Dusclops, the second TR setter and the middle finger to setup Pokémon. I maxed its Defense to survive a Soul-Stealing 7 Star Strike 75% of the time, which can surprise a lot. He's still very tanky on the special side thanks to Eviolite. Night Shade does some damage to everyone, and often secure the kill if its partner doesn't get the KO. Pain Split enables it to recover a bit, and Haze says fuck off to setup moves. Just don't lose your Eviolite, it is very squishy without it.

Christmas spirit (Abomasnow) @ Abomasite
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Protect
- Focus Blast
​

Last but not least, the mega of the team, Obama. Its STABs shred a large part of the metagame : Landorus-T, Zapdos, Mega-Salamence, Tapu Fini, Amoonguss, Diancie, Skymin. I prefer Giga Drain over Energy Ball because the recover is far more useful than an extra bit of damage that doesn't get me more OHKOs or 2HKOs. Focus Blast surprises its common switch-ins such as Ferrothorn, Tyranitar and Heatran, so I don't need a switch to take care of them. You need all those 4 turns of inversed speed, a loss of time is unacceptable. Oh, and Soundproof before the mega is for switching on Hyper Voice (it is really fun to see that Mega-Salamence or that Mega-Gardevoir shouting at it and doing no damage), but if you need a way to instantly remove sand, sun or rain, just go for Snow Warning.

Threat List​

Even if this team can take care of the vast majority of the threats, some Pokémon give my team a hard time. You will never auto-lose to those things as long as you play well, but they can make victory harder to get. Here are some of those threats :

Hide

: Even if it isn't played very often, Mega-Gyarados can be very difficult to deal with. Break Mold ignores Mimikyu's Disguise, so it will OHKO my main TR setter with the help of Helping Hand or the rain. Wishiwashi and Volcanion can't really threaten Gyarados (if Volcanion can't burn it with Steam Eruption), and Dusclops never enjoys a Crunch. Xurkitree and Abomasnow can take care of the leviathan though, so you have to keep at least one of those two alive until the dragonfish dies.

: Well, is there really a team that can't be really threatened by a Ghost/Fighting fast, strong and a bit bulky Pokémon ? Its really high speed is an advantage for you though as it will likely be the first one to hit Mimikyu's Disguise. It will also lead very often, so you can kill it turn one with your Volcanion (Inferno Overdrive OHKO it properly) or severely wound it at least. Excluding Dusclops, every of your Pokémon can 2HKO it (or OHKO it after a Close Combat) so you have to basically hit it twice and it will be dead. Just be cautious of its SS7SS, and you will be fine.

: Tapu Lele and Mega-Gardevoir are annoying because they can damage everyone on your team and Taunt/TR back. But they also can get damaged quickly by you, so pressure it. They don't enjoy Volcanion's Sludge Bomb tho, so keep this move secret until you're sure to hit those bitches. Xurkitree can also switch on their Dazzling Gleam/Hyper Voice thanks to the Assault Vest if needed.

: That young punk is also very annoying. You can't OHKO it, its Fake Out buys your opponent some time until TR finishes, it can Knock Off Wishiwashi's Aguav Berry or Dusclops' Eviolite... If you really hate this thing, use Will-O-Wisp on Mimikyu to cut its damage by half.

: The last one is Porygon2. It can stop TR easily thanks to its huge bulk, and is painfully difficult to take down, especially if it's full Special Defense. You can't fully ignore it either because of Download's boost (if it gets the right boost of course). Try to damage it as much as you can, and it will eventually die. If you can handle setup Pokémon, you can put Knock Off on Dusclops instead of Haze to heavily cripple Porygon2.

Conclusion​

That's it, my first RMT. This team is incredibly fun to play and is competitive, and you can make underrated things work really well, so give it a try ! Here is a cool replay to show the team in action :

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-615292491

Hope you guys liked this RMT !
And sorry for my shitty english

Importable

Mimiku dayo ! (Mimikyu) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Play Rough
- Protect
- Destiny Bond

Sushi master (Wishiwashi) @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Schooling
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Surf
- Hydro Pump
- Protect
- Ice Beam

Boiler (Volcanion) @ Firium Z
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Heat Wave
- Steam Eruption
- Sludge Bomb
- Protect

Bzzzzt (Xurkitree) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Signal Beam
- Energy Ball

Socks (Dusclops) @ Eviolite
Ability: Frisk
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Night Shade
- Pain Split
- Haze

Christmas spirit (Abomasnow) @ Abomasite
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Protect
- Focus Blast

 

[coolflare]

It's good that you acknowledged that Porygon2 is a threat but you might be taking it a little too lightly to not prepare for it. As you said, it is tanky and can cancel Trick Room but can also give your opponent an easier time dealing with your team. I suggest Buzzwole as a great counterpick since he hits like a speeding Truck with Oil ready to explode. And is physically tanky boasting a base 139 base defense. He is slow enough for Trick room (base 79 speed) so that shouldn't be a problem. I'm Impressed that you haven't encountered a Snorlax AKA Big Belly Gangsa yet. BD Snorlax could end your team easy If it's given the chance to set up but Buzzwole deals with it also. I don't know who you should replace for a Buzzwole but I might try It out and see for my self.

 

[Un passant ordinaire]

I encoutered a lot of Snorlax, trust me. The BDlax can't do that much against me because outside of TR, it is slower than every member of my team, and during TR, Dusclops outspeed it and can haze. The Curserlax is a bit more threatening, but when Cursed enough, Dusclops outspeed it outside of TR. Moreover, Snorlax never has Protect, so a double targetting will put it in danger quickly.

I already considered Buzzwole, but it won't fit there because of Tapu Lele and M-Gardevoir destroying it. If I want a Buzzwole un my team, I'll have to rebuild it entirely.

 

[lightseer7]

Can someone help me with my team? I'm open to replace some pokes and make changes. This is what I have:

Lucario
>Mega Lucarionite
>Adamant
>Justified
>252Atk, 4Def, 252Spd
>Fighting/ Steel

• Close Combat (Level)
• Swords Dance (TM)
• Bullet Punch
• Stone Edge (Level)

Snorlax
>iappa Berry
>Brave
>Gluttony
>68HP, 196Atk, 244Def
>Normal

• Return (TM)
• Curse (Level)
• High Horsepower (Level)
• Recycle (Level)

Dragonite
>Choice Band
>Adamant
>Multiscale
>252Atk, 4SpDef, 252Speed
>Dragon/ Flying

• Outrage (Level)
• Thunder Punch
• Extreme Speed (Level)
• Super Power (Level)

Swampert
>Leftovers
>Relaxed
>Torrent
>252Def, 252HP, 4SpAtk
>Water/ Ground

• Stealth Rock
• Earthquake
• Scald
• Roar

Mimikyu
>Red Card
>Brave
>Disguise
>0Spe, 252HP, 252Atk, 4Def
>Ghost/ Fairy

• Trick Room
• Play Rough
• Shadow Sneak
• Protect

Araquanid
>Waterium Z
>Adamant
>Water Bubble
>252Atk, 252HP, 4SpDef
>Water/ Bug

• Liquidation
• Leech Life
• Crunch
• Protect

I would really appreciate the help!
Thanks!

 

[AuraRayquaza]

Hey there! I know we played a couple of times on the suspect ladder and after playing I didn't think your team looked that great if I'm honest. However, seeing it more in depth I can tell its a pretty well thought out team, and your results dont lie! M aboma trick room is a solid team build and mimikyu is one of the best at almost guaranteeing a tr sometime in the game.

One thing I can tell from looking at your team, and what i vividly remember from playing vs it, is that amoonguss gives your team hell. For a tr team, this is one of the worst traits it can have, and one that absolutely needs addressing to become a lot better. While volcanion can ohko it with z heat wave, it is undersped in tr and put to sleep before doing anything. Aboma can also switch in to a spore, but cannot ohko with blizzard and leaves its partner to be slept too, even then its a speed tie and amoong can hit aboma hard with sludge bomb. This problem gets even worse since you have no support for getting tr up and rely on mimikyus consistency alone, making sleep a surefire way of stopping the setup.

What you end up with is a lose-lose situation. either you setup tr and let amoong sleep your whole team, or dont set up tr in which case your team is too slow to handle the opposing team.

The change im going to propose is Tapu Fini over Wishiwashi. Wishiwashi isnt too great in doubles because of its ability, and while you have a pinch berry to help with that, you also have hail which doesnt help it. Tapu fini gives you the same water typing to beat fires, but more importantly gives you misty terrain. this protects all of your mons from sleep, since they are all grounded. it allows you to beat amoonguss with greater ease as now volcanion can hit it hard without being slept. I think a specs set would be best for your team, to still be able to deal damage under tr and not lose all momentum by switching in, as you need to make the most of your tr turns.

The next change im going to suggest follows on from the previous paragraph. dusclops is not a very good tr setter because once tr is up it just sits there doing no damage and wasting your turns, which you cant afford to let happen. it may be bulky but realistically you want the game to be over after 2, maybe 3, tr setups. For this reason, im going to suggest Hoopa-U over Dusclops. What hoopa does it get up tr then apply huge pressure to the opposing team by way of its best STABs, hyperspace hole and fury. These break protects, which is one main way of stalling tr turns. It also allows volcanion and xurkitree to get damage after the opposing mons protect has been broken. it can also take snorlax's berry with magician, making snorlax a non threat as you just have to beat it down without fear of it recycling.

Just as a side-note, i would put 21 speed ivs on Volcanion to make sure it is one point faster than hoopa, so under tr it moves after hoopa and can get damage after hyperspace fury has broken a protect. Also change Energy Ball to HP ice on xurkitree since you arent hitting much that really important with energy ball and hp ice means you arent walled by lando-t or mence, both of which are more common. Finally, Ice shard over focus miss on Abomasnow helps to pick off weakened opponents outside of tr, and focus blast can miss, you also have answers to all the mons focus blast hits.


EV descriptions are in the hide tags. it also includes the item description for hoopa which i highly recommend you read.

Hoopa-U

Hoopa-Unbound @ Misty Seed
Ability: Magician
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 172 Def / 32 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Hyperspace Fury
- Hyperspace Hole
- Protect

evs let you live a 60 atk mence double edge with max attack and spatk dump. misty seed activates with misty terrain from fini, giving it increased special bulk to set up tr and also allowing it to steal items upon attacking, like berries.

Tapu Fini

Tapu Fini @ Choice Specs
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Muddy Water
- Dazzling Gleam
- Moonblast
- Hydro Pump / Haze / Ice beam

just dual STABs with both single target and double target options. haze can be a better answer to setup sweepers but is not necessary as moonblast beats most of the main setters. ice beam for grasses but also not necessary since you have aboma.

Hope you like my changes and take them on board!

 

[coolflare]

Can someone help me with my team? I'm open to replace some pokes and make changes. This is what I have:

Lucario
>Mega Lucarionite
>Adamant
>Justified
>252Atk, 4Def, 252Spd
>Fighting/ Steel

• Close Combat (Level)
• Swords Dance (TM)
• Bullet Punch
• Stone Edge (Level)

Snorlax
>iappa Berry
>Brave
>Gluttony
>68HP, 196Atk, 244Def
>Normal

• Return (TM)
• Curse (Level)
• High Horsepower (Level)
• Recycle (Level)

Dragonite
>Choice Band
>Adamant
>Multiscale
>252Atk, 4SpDef, 252Speed
>Dragon/ Flying

• Outrage (Level)
• Thunder Punch
• Extreme Speed (Level)
• Super Power (Level)

Swampert
>Leftovers
>Relaxed
>Torrent
>252Def, 252HP, 4SpAtk
>Water/ Ground

• Stealth Rock
• Earthquake
• Scald
• Roar

Mimikyu
>Red Card
>Brave
>Disguise
>0Spe, 252HP, 252Atk, 4Def
>Ghost/ Fairy

• Trick Room
• Play Rough
• Shadow Sneak
• Protect

Araquanid
>Waterium Z
>Adamant
>Water Bubble
>252Atk, 252HP, 4SpDef
>Water/ Bug

• Liquidation
• Leech Life
• Crunch
• Protect

I would really appreciate the help!
Thanks!

I never understood semi–trick room teams. I prefer to have my entire team be slow or don't have TR at all. Mimikyu doesn't hit too hard so unless it has Psych up to copy Snorlax's boosts, not too useful with an offensive EV spread. Also, Mental herb would be a better item to make setting up TR easier. And BDlax is better because you can save him for late game to get a win, provided it's checks like fighting types and Celesteela are removed, which you have no answer for, so having a fire type like Heatran or Volcanion would help your team out. And why does Swampert HAVE STEALTH ROCK!? Not only is it not too good in doubles, If you need to check mega zard Y that bad, bring a mon that can learn rock slide or stone edge. From the looks of it, you just put random pokemon that are strong but team synergy is VERY IMPORTANT! When you pick a mon for your team, you should ask yourself, how does this mon support my team? If you say it covers a weakness someone on your team has, chances are it will work, otherwise, you'll need to ignore it.

 

[coolflare]

Hey there! I know we played a couple of times on the suspect ladder and after playing I didn't think your team looked that great if I'm honest. However, seeing it more in depth I can tell its a pretty well thought out team, and your results dont lie! M aboma trick room is a solid team build and mimikyu is one of the best at almost guaranteeing a tr sometime in the game.

One thing I can tell from looking at your team, and what i vividly remember from playing vs it, is that amoonguss gives your team hell. For a tr team, this is one of the worst traits it can have, and one that absolutely needs addressing to become a lot better. While volcanion can ohko it with z heat wave, it is undersped in tr and put to sleep before doing anything. Aboma can also switch in to a spore, but cannot ohko with blizzard and leaves its partner to be slept too, even then its a speed tie and amoong can hit aboma hard with sludge bomb. This problem gets even worse since you have no support for getting tr up and rely on mimikyus consistency alone, making sleep a surefire way of stopping the setup.

What you end up with is a lose-lose situation. either you setup tr and let amoong sleep your whole team, or dont set up tr in which case your team is too slow to handle the opposing team.

The change im going to propose is Tapu Fini over Wishiwashi. Wishiwashi isnt too great in doubles because of its ability, and while you have a pinch berry to help with that, you also have hail which doesnt help it. Tapu fini gives you the same water typing to beat fires, but more importantly gives you misty terrain. this protects all of your mons from sleep, since they are all grounded. it allows you to beat amoonguss with greater ease as now volcanion can hit it hard without being slept. I think a specs set would be best for your team, to still be able to deal damage under tr and not lose all momentum by switching in, as you need to make the most of your tr turns.

The next change im going to suggest follows on from the previous paragraph. dusclops is not a very good tr setter because once tr is up it just sits there doing no damage and wasting your turns, which you cant afford to let happen. it may be bulky but realistically you want the game to be over after 2, maybe 3, tr setups. For this reason, im going to suggest Hoopa-U over Dusclops. What hoopa does it get up tr then apply huge pressure to the opposing team by way of its best STABs, hyperspace hole and fury. These break protects, which is one main way of stalling tr turns. It also allows volcanion and xurkitree to get damage after the opposing mons protect has been broken. it can also take snorlax's berry with magician, making snorlax a non threat as you just have to beat it down without fear of it recycling.

Just as a side-note, i would put 21 speed ivs on Volcanion to make sure it is one point faster than hoopa, so under tr it moves after hoopa and can get damage after hyperspace fury has broken a protect. Also change Energy Ball to HP ice on xurkitree since you arent hitting much that really important with energy ball and hp ice means you arent walled by lando-t or mence, both of which are more common. Finally, Ice shard over focus miss on Abomasnow helps to pick off weakened opponents outside of tr, and focus blast can miss, you also have answers to all the mons focus blast hits.


EV descriptions are in the hide tags. it also includes the item description for hoopa which i highly recommend you read.

Hoopa-U

Hoopa-Unbound @ Misty Seed
Ability: Magician
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 172 Def / 32 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Hyperspace Fury
- Hyperspace Hole
- Protect

evs let you live a 60 atk mence double edge with max attack and spatk dump. misty seed activates with misty terrain from fini, giving it increased special bulk to set up tr and also allowing it to steal items upon attacking, like berries or av.

Tapu Fini

Tapu Fini @ Choice Specs
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Muddy Water
- Dazzling Gleam
- Moonblast
- Hydro Pump / Haze / Ice beam

just dual STABs with both single target and double target options. haze can be a better answer to setup sweepers but is not necessary as moonblast beats most of the main setters. ice beam for grasses but also not necessary since you have aboma.

Hope you like my changes and take them on board!

I agree with this but Knock off > Protect so that way, Protect doesn't become useless for the entire game if it steals an Assault Vest and it can further cripple pokemon relying on items, and give you a nice answer to Porygon 2.

 

[Un passant ordinaire]

Hey there! I know we played a couple of times on the suspect ladder and after playing I didn't think your team looked that great if I'm honest. However, seeing it more in depth I can tell its a pretty well thought out team, and your results dont lie! M aboma trick room is a solid team build and mimikyu is one of the best at almost guaranteeing a tr sometime in the game.

One thing I can tell from looking at your team, and what i vividly remember from playing vs it, is that amoonguss gives your team hell. For a tr team, this is one of the worst traits it can have, and one that absolutely needs addressing to become a lot better. While volcanion can ohko it with z heat wave, it is undersped in tr and put to sleep before doing anything. Aboma can also switch in to a spore, but cannot ohko with blizzard and leaves its partner to be slept too, even then its a speed tie and amoong can hit aboma hard with sludge bomb. This problem gets even worse since you have no support for getting tr up and rely on mimikyus consistency alone, making sleep a surefire way of stopping the setup.

What you end up with is a lose-lose situation. either you setup tr and let amoong sleep your whole team, or dont set up tr in which case your team is too slow to handle the opposing team.

The change im going to propose is Tapu Fini over Wishiwashi. Wishiwashi isnt too great in doubles because of its ability, and while you have a pinch berry to help with that, you also have hail which doesnt help it. Tapu fini gives you the same water typing to beat fires, but more importantly gives you misty terrain. this protects all of your mons from sleep, since they are all grounded. it allows you to beat amoonguss with greater ease as now volcanion can hit it hard without being slept. I think a specs set would be best for your team, to still be able to deal damage under tr and not lose all momentum by switching in, as you need to make the most of your tr turns.

The next change im going to suggest follows on from the previous paragraph. dusclops is not a very good tr setter because once tr is up it just sits there doing no damage and wasting your turns, which you cant afford to let happen. it may be bulky but realistically you want the game to be over after 2, maybe 3, tr setups. For this reason, im going to suggest Hoopa-U over Dusclops. What hoopa does it get up tr then apply huge pressure to the opposing team by way of its best STABs, hyperspace hole and fury. These break protects, which is one main way of stalling tr turns. It also allows volcanion and xurkitree to get damage after the opposing mons protect has been broken. it can also take snorlax's berry with magician, making snorlax a non threat as you just have to beat it down without fear of it recycling.

Just as a side-note, i would put 21 speed ivs on Volcanion to make sure it is one point faster than hoopa, so under tr it moves after hoopa and can get damage after hyperspace fury has broken a protect. Also change Energy Ball to HP ice on xurkitree since you arent hitting much that really important with energy ball and hp ice means you arent walled by lando-t or mence, both of which are more common. Finally, Ice shard over focus miss on Abomasnow helps to pick off weakened opponents outside of tr, and focus blast can miss, you also have answers to all the mons focus blast hits.


EV descriptions are in the hide tags. it also includes the item description for hoopa which i highly recommend you read.

Hoopa-U

Hoopa-Unbound @ Misty Seed
Ability: Magician
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 172 Def / 32 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Hyperspace Fury
- Hyperspace Hole
- Protect

evs let you live a 60 atk mence double edge with max attack and spatk dump. misty seed activates with misty terrain from fini, giving it increased special bulk to set up tr and also allowing it to steal items upon attacking, like berries.

Tapu Fini

Tapu Fini @ Choice Specs
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Muddy Water
- Dazzling Gleam
- Moonblast
- Hydro Pump / Haze / Ice beam

just dual STABs with both single target and double target options. haze can be a better answer to setup sweepers but is not necessary as moonblast beats most of the main setters. ice beam for grasses but also not necessary since you have aboma.

Hope you like my changes and take them on board!

You are right about many things :

- Amoonguss is a pain in the ass, I agree. When I face it, I usually lead with Volcanion to make sure it dies, as people don't expect it to be OHKO. Obama is a great answer to it too, and Wishi's Ice Beam hurts it a lot (they speed tie). Tapu Fini is an interesting option, I never considered it because of his high speed. It would also help me against Scrafty. But it doesn't look like it packs the sheer power required to threat people. And the Choice Specs doesn't appeal me (it's purely because of my playstyle tho, I don't like Choice items). You remember that fucking mushroom spanking me because I was playing M-Tyranitar during the majority of the suspect test. Without Obama, yeah, Amoonguss was my nemesis.

- I know people love Hoopa-U, but I don't need another sweeper. Put it this way : I already have 4 strong sweepers and a suicide Pokémon. I don't need more power than this, I need something able to put TR again. Alors, Dusclops usually comes to play mid or late game, when both teams got hit. Night Shade is often enough to finish this 26% Tapu Lele or this 29% Zapdos for example. And don't mess with Pain Split either, after a double hit, it will hurt badly.

- HP Ice over Energy Ball on Xurkitree sounds good. However, I really like to kill Gastrodon and Swampert without needing Obama, as I got Wishi to handle Lando-T and M-Mence. 3 mons to kill those two will result in only one mon to take Gastro and Swampert down, which put me under pressure. HP Ice on Xurkitree is a good choice, but not when its counters are already countered by 2 mons.

- I already tried Ice Shard over Focus Blast. It isn't that much effective because of Tapu Lele nearly everywhere, and Focus Blast surprises switches without you needing to lose a turn to damage Ferrothorn or Heatran. It's just my playstyle tho, I don't believe it is better or worst to have FB, I just like to have my Pokémon able to threaten their common counters by themselves.


Nevertheless, I really like your ideas, so I will try them out and see if it suits best for me or not ! Thanks for the reply !

 

[lightseer7]

I never understood semi–trick room teams. I prefer to have my entire team be slow or don't have TR at all. Mimikyu doesn't hit too hard so unless it has Psych up to copy Snorlax's boosts, not too useful with an offensive EV spread. Also, Mental herb would be a better item to make setting up TR easier. And BDlax is better because you can save him for late game to get a win, provided it's checks like fighting types and Celesteela are removed, which you have no answer for, so having a fire type like Heatran or Volcanion would help your team out. And why does Swampert HAVE STEALTH ROCK!? Not only is it not too good in doubles, If you need to check mega zard Y that bad, bring a mon that can learn rock slide or stone edge. From the looks of it, you just put random pokemon that are strong but team synergy is VERY IMPORTANT! When you pick a mon for your team, you should ask yourself, how does this mon support my team? If you say it covers a weakness someone on your team has, chances are it will work, otherwise, you'll need to ignore it.

Thank you for your input!
Really, I was taking my favorite pokes and trying to make them fit. You gave me some good tips, but I'm still not sure which pokes to keep or not. I got rid of stealth rock on swampert, I gave mental herb to mimikyu as well as psyche up, and belly drum to snorlax.
I haven't added my fire type poke yet. What else can I do?
Thanks!

 

[coolflare]

Thank you for your input!
Really, I was taking my favorite pokes and trying to make them fit. You gave me some good tips, but I'm still not sure which pokes to keep or not. I got rid of stealth rock on swampert, I gave mental herb to mimikyu as well as psyche up, and belly drum to snorlax.
I haven't added my fire type poke yet. What else can I do?
Thanks!

This is getting unrelated to this post so PM me so we can talk more about this. Okay?

 

[coolflare]

You are right about many things :

- Amoonguss is a pain in the ass, I agree. When I face it, I usually lead with Volcanion to make sure it dies, as people don't expect it to be OHKO. Obama is a great answer to it too, and Wishi's Ice Beam hurts it a lot (they speed tie). Tapu Fini is an interesting option, I never considered it because of his high speed. It would also help me against Scrafty. But it doesn't look like it packs the sheer power required to threat people. And the Choice Specs doesn't appeal me (it's purely because of my playstyle tho, I don't like Choice items). You remember that fucking mushroom spanking me because I was playing M-Tyranitar during the majority of the suspect test. Without Obama, yeah, Amoonguss was my nemesis.

- I know people love Hoopa-U, but I don't need another sweeper. Put it this way : I already have 4 strong sweepers and a suicide Pokémon. I don't need more power than this, I need something able to put TR again. Alors, Dusclops usually comes to play mid or late game, when both teams got hit. Night Shade is often enough to finish this 26% Tapu Lele or this 29% Zapdos for example. And don't mess with Pain Split either, after a double hit, it will hurt badly.

- HP Ice over Energy Ball on Xurkitree sounds good. However, I really like to kill Gastrodon and Swampert without needing Obama, as I got Wishi to handle Lando-T and M-Mence. 3 mons to kill those two will result in only one mon to take Gastro and Swampert down, which put me under pressure. HP Ice on Xurkitree is a good choice, but not when its counters are already countered by 2 mons.

- I already tried Ice Shard over Focus Blast. It isn't that much effective because of Tapu Lele nearly everywhere, and Focus Blast surprises switches without you needing to lose a turn to damage Ferrothorn or Heatran. It's just my playstyle tho, I don't believe it is better or worst to have FB, I just like to have my Pokémon able to threaten their common counters by themselves.


Nevertheless, I really like your ideas, so I will try them out and see if it suits best for me or not ! Thanks for the reply !

I just realized how weak your team is to the Azumarill + Mew matchup. Mew can Fake out a mon so Azumarill can set up BD easily and after that, Mew will just transfom into Azumarill. Although it's a hilarious tactic (that I use) You have no way to stop them, since they don't give two f*cks about speed control. You can try to haze it but any player who knows it carries it will prioritize on killikg that right away. I don't know if any of your mons can carry quick guard but might be necessary to stop this Hellish matchup from nuking your team. Wishiwashi and Dusknoir may be able to survive 1 aqua jet at best but because neither of yours carry protect, a double target on is imminent. Move redirection from the likes of Clefairy may solve this by taking 1 Aqua jet and then the other gets targeted, might have a better chance if Dusknoir or Wishiwashi was there but that's very situational. Honestly, their only weakness is psychic terrain but Lele is too fast for TR. With no method to OHKO Mew, this team up will bring utter Hell to your team.

 

[Un passant ordinaire]

I know that tactic, I faced that tactic, I never had problem with this tactic. You should try some calcs before telling if something is a threat. Check this out:

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 127-151 (44.7 - 53.1%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow-Mega: 153-180 (39.8 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Wishiwashi-School: 126-149 (42.8 - 50.6%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 294-347 (80.7 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I don't see your utter hell, even if you get to the worst case (Azu and Mew at +6) as you have a near 75% of chance to haze, so a 75% to win against that combo when succesfully set up with Dusclops only. But I never had any trouble with this strategy, because I never got to the worst case. I mean, do you really think someone that got top 3 stupid enough to not recognize this strategy ? All you have to do is to lead with Dusclops and Xurkitree. If Mew use Fake Out, you Haze. If Mew use Taunt, you kill Azumarill :

252+ SpA Xurkitree Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 482-570 (119.3 - 141%) -- guaranteed OHKO

But if you really, really fear this combo (which is very gimmick and rare nowadays), just put Haze on Volcanion. It got Water Absorb so they can't Aqua Jet it. However that's unnecessary, trust me.

 

[coolflare]

I know that tactic, I faced that tactic, I never had problem with this tactic. You should try some calcs before telling if something is a threat. Check this out:

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 127-151 (44.7 - 53.1%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow-Mega: 153-180 (39.8 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Wishiwashi-School: 126-149 (42.8 - 50.6%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 294-347 (80.7 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I don't see your utter hell, even if you get to the worst case (Azu and Mew at +6) as you have a near 75% of chance to haze, so a 75% to win against that combo when succesfully set up with Dusclops only. But I never had any trouble with this strategy, because I never got to the worst case. I mean, do you really think someone that got top 3 stupid enough to not recognize this strategy ? All you have to do is to lead with Dusclops and Xurkitree. If Mew use Fake Out, you Haze. If Mew use Taunt, you kill Azumarill :

252+ SpA Xurkitree Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 482-570 (119.3 - 141%) -- guaranteed OHKO

But if you really, really fear this combo (which is very gimmick and rare nowadays), just put Haze on Volcanion. It got Water Absorb so they can't Aqua Jet it. However that's unnecessary, trust me.

Who would be stupid enough to lead with them in the case of an electric type?
As for Calcs
Xurkitree doesn't treaten them at all:

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Xurkitree: 421-496 (113.7 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And for Obomasnow, best he'll be doing to them is this:
252+ SpA Abomasnow Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage

While Azumarill can retaliate with:
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 684-805 (178.5 - 210.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Provided that Dusclops isn't there in time or if TR isn't up.

As for Dusclops:
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 286-337 (101 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Provided TR isn't up or hits it on a switch.

And Volcanion:
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 305-359 (84 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Provided TR isn't up or if Azumarill is running Brave 0IV speed in which it will outspeed it and a double target will happen.

So basically, a team prepared to stop TR as best they can with this will do very well against your team.

And also, I'm more of a do it, learn it kind of person so could we have a battle on Showdown?

 

[Un passant ordinaire]

That's a lot of "provided that" haha

Sure, I'll connect tomorrow at the same hour i'm posting this message

 

[Arcticblast]

The suggestion of Hoopa-U over Dusclops isn't made solely because of Hoopa-U's strength, it's also because of the utter inability of Dusclops to be a good Pokemon. Even when it looks like a good choice, it eats up so much momentum just sitting on the field in Trick Room only doing 100 per turn, and the moment you get Taunted you're suddenly worse than a Zigzagoon. If you want a defensive setter I'd advise Cresselia or Porygon2; while neither really give your team any momentum (as is the case for all defensive TR setters), the key here is they aren't fucking Dusclops.

In addition, I don't really think Soundproof on Abomasnow is a good idea. While it's been a couple years (holy shit) since I've used Abomasnow, there are a lot of situations I've personally been in before where I want to bring in my Alolan Ninetales, Gigalith, or TTar just to get the residual damage from their weather, then immediately switch them out to save the Pokemon themselves for later, particularly against offensive Pokemon that like to run Sash, and opposing Sash mons can really mess up Trick Room's early game.

Lastly, consider Muddy Water over Surf on Wishiwashi. It misses sometimes, but it makes your opponents miss too. Why do you think Tapu Fini is so good?

 

[Un passant ordinaire]

About Obama vs Azumarill : if you need Obama to kill it, use Energy Ball :

252+ SpA Abomasnow-Mega Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 392-464 (97 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

But as I said, this duo isn't that threatening for me. We will try tomorrow if you want :)

the key here is they aren't fucking Dusclops.

Just let it try to be a good mon, why all this racism ? >:(

I explained that earlier, Dusclops usually comes mis or late game, where mons are weakened and a simple Night Shade can finish them off. I understand why you think it's trash but I need a more reliable way to put TR (even if I lose momentum) than something less reliable but able to hurt hard. Put it this way : Do you want 3 constant and additional turns of TR or a higher possibility to get none of those turns ?
I would gladly try Porygon2 tho, but Haze really helps my team against CM Tapu Fini, Misty Seed Zapdos and Snorlax (this guy otherwise destroys my team).

(and i refuse Muddy Water, haxx is bad and you should feel bad for relying on this to increase your winrate :/)

Snow Warning over Soundproof, I already explained why I prefer the later, as it gives me a better time against Mega-Gardevoir. Also, Obama is a bit frail, so it can't come to just change the weather as Ttar, Gigalith and Ninetales-A can. It's purely what do you prefer to counter. This team needs to counter voice attacks more than weather.


I think you guys misunderstood something : I don't want to change anything on this team because it works well already. Excepted maybe this weird Protect on Mimikyu. I will gladly try new teams centered on TR with Buzzwole, Hoopa-U and Tapu Fini for example, but it will be another team, not this one, not my team. It will have other threats, and it will need another way to play it to its fullest. Tapu Fini over Wishiwashi is a good example of this, because Fini can't OHKO Tapu Koko for example under TR, so I will need Abomasnow more than I do now to take it down. It is also a lot faster, which means it can be outsped under TR easily unlike Wishiwashi. It isn't like I'm playing a gimmick just to play a gimmick, I play this gimmick because of the niche it has in this meta.

 

[coolflare]

About Obama vs Azumarill : if you need Obama to kill it, use Energy Ball :

252+ SpA Abomasnow-Mega Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 392-464 (97 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

But as I said, this duo isn't that threatening for me. We will try tomorrow if you want :)



Just let it try to be a good mon, why all this racism ? >:(

I explained that earlier, Dusclops usually comes mis or late game, where mons are weakened and a simple Night Shade can finish them off. I understand why you think it's trash but I need a more reliable way to put TR (even if I lose momentum) than something less reliable but able to hurt hard. Put it this way : Do you want 3 constant and additional turns of TR or a higher possibility to get none of those turns ?
I would gladly try Porygon2 tho, but Haze really helps my team against CM Tapu Fini, Misty Seed Zapdos and Snorlax (this guy otherwise destroys my team).

(and i refuse Muddy Water, haxx is bad and you should feel bad for relying on this to increase your winrate :/)

Snow Warning over Soundproof, I already explained why I prefer the later, as it gives me a better time against Mega-Gardevoir. Also, Obama is a bit frail, so it can't come to just change the weather as Ttar, Gigalith and Ninetales-A can. It's purely what do you prefer to counter. This team needs to counter voice attacks more than weather.


I think you guys misunderstood something : I don't want to change anything on this team because it works well already. Excepted maybe this weird Protect on Mimikyu. I will gladly try new teams centered on TR with Buzzwole, Hoopa-U and Tapu Fini for example, but it will be another team, not this one, not my team. It will have other threats, and it will need another way to play it to its fullest. Tapu Fini over Wishiwashi is a good example of this, because Fini can't OHKO Tapu Koko for example under TR, so I will need Abomasnow more than I do now to take it down. It is also a lot faster, which means it can be outsped under TR easily unlike Wishiwashi. It isn't like I'm playing a gimmick just to play a gimmick, I play this gimmick because of the niche it has in this meta.

If that's the case, why did you make this RMT?

 

[Un passant ordinaire]

Because it is a team that I love and I wanted to share it with you ! It's a "Rate My Team", not a "Change My Team" or "Help My Team" right ?