Metagame Weakness Policy and its role in the metagame

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RockRocks

Banned deucer.
Approved by Raseri
image.jpg WEAKNESS POLICYimage.jpg
Looks like a wedding invitation, goddammit.

XY Flavour Text: An item to be held by a Pokemon. Attack and Sp. Atk sharply increase if the holder is hit with a move it's weak to.

In-Depth Effect: When held by a Pokemon, it raises the Pokemon's Attack and Sp. Attack by two stages whenever it is hit by a move that is Super Effective.

Competitive Use: Weakness Policy is a pretty interesting item that has a lot of potential, but is hard to use. There is a risk vs. reward factor in using Weakness Policy. To utilize it correctly, a Pokemon must have decent offensive stats, lots of weaknesses, great bulk, and high speed OR some way to boost its speed, and should have some way to deal with the plethora of priority users in the tier. Despite all the requirements, there are a few Pokemon that can take advantaged of this nifty item. Let's meet the users:

Possible Users

Carracosta
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Carracosta @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Waterfall / Ice Beam
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Jet / Ice Beam

Carracosta is one of the best users of Weakness Policy, sporting Aqua Jet to deal with some other priority users, two great abilities that help activate Weakness Policy(Sturdy and Solid Rock), and Shell Smash to boost its Speed AND Attack, as well as the traits mentioned earlier in the article. It has some flaws, though. It's movepool is shallow, restricting it to using STAB moves for damage, including Stone Edge. It has really bad Special Defense which leaves it open to almost any strong special attacker. Its Speed is also terrible, leaving it wide open to Choice Scarf users, priority, and even faster Pokemon like Sceptile. However, when used correctly, Carracosta can plow through unprepared teams like a hot knife through butter, or like a turtle through...er...water.

Drifblim
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Drifblim @ Weakness Policy
Abillity: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP /252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Baton Pass / Destiny Bond
- Stockpile

Drifblim is one of the most unique users of Weakness Policy as well as one of the best, and has a lot of cool traits to mess around with. With its high Speed, great bulk, many weaknesses, and usable Special Attack, it fits the bill quite nicely. However, it is its movepool, especially the support moves, that make it great. Stockpile is great for surviving hits and passing defensive boosts to its teammates(Endure can also work but you can't pass defensive boosts and it conflicts with a Destiny Bond). Once it gets the boosts, it can then pass those boosts to a teammate better suited for the job of sweeping. Drifblim isn't a bad sweeper by any means, but imagine trying to deal with a Shiftry with those boosts. Jesus. Destiny Bond is a good option too, as Drifblim often has trouble with Sucker paunch users, so it is a good way to stick it in their face and say "I'm not taking your shit anymore." It is immune to several forms of priority such as Quick Attack, Extreme Speed, and Mach Punch, boosting its usefulness even further.

Golem
golem.gif

Golem @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Rock Slide

Ah, Golem, one of the finest users of Weakness Policy. Golem uses a combination of bulk, attack, Sturdy, many weaknesses, and Rock Polish to utilize Weakness Policy to its fullest. It can be used to sweep like a boss late-game or rip holes in the opposition mid-game. It doesn't get much outside of EdgeQuake, but it doesn't really need it because EdgeQuake covers most threats. However, Sucker Punch is a blessing, allowing it to deal with a lot of revenge killers and priority users, setting it apart from most other users. It can be somewhat inconsistent because of its low Special Defense and glaring weakness to Water-types (which are very common in the tier) as well as its semi-reliance on Stone Edge for Rock STAB, but use it correctly and you will not be disappointed.

Lunatone set and description coming soon! Feel free to discuss Lunatone's viability! :D

More to come! Don't worry there are lots of potential users.

Conclusion
Weakness Policy may not be the best item, but it is certainly useful on a lot of Pokemon in the tier for its unprecedented sweeping potential. How do you think it will affect the metagame? Are there any other potential users of this item? Is it even viable in the first place? Feel free to post all you like about what you think of this unique item.

That's all for now. Discuss!
 
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Weakness Policy Carracosta looks reasonably effective. As for Drifblim, you might already know this, it's not clear from your post, but Baton Pass cannot pass on the boost from Unburden, which hurts the effectiveness of that set. There's also the fact that if you see a Drifblim in XY, you pretty much know it has a Weakness Policy, and if your opponent's reasonably intelligent, they're probably not gonna use a super-effective move. So you're left with a slow, rather weak special attacker with no means of boosting its special attack or speed. It might work every now and then, but it's pretty gimmicky, IMO.
 
I used WP Carracosta with Sturdy a few times in pre-beta (the beta before alpha), and it's surprisingly effective, though it does lose some effectiveness higher up on the ladder (obviously). I do opt to run Ice Beam > Waterfall as it allows you to nuke Tangela, Vileplume, Quilladin, and bulky grasses in general; and if you're man enough to hit your Stone Edges, Rock + Aqua Jet is plenty good coverage anyway. WP is easy enough to activate vs grasses, and with sturdy you're guaranteed at least a +2 +2 +2, most times a +3 +3 +2, which is terrifying.

It may not be the best user of WP in the game, but it certainly works alright.
 
golem.gif


Golem @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide/Stone Edge


Golem is a decent user of Weakness Policy, at x2 speed it outspeed's most of the meta bar Accelgor, Ninjask and common choice scarf users in the tier. This set can be used as a late game sweeper or just for the sake of denting holes in a team. It is simple to use. Take a move Golem is weak to, activating Weakness Policy, at the same turn go for rock polish. This brings Golem to high speeds and attack hence it can execute a sweep. No one likes to take STAB Edgequake destroying all the pokemon in way. Sturdy acts like pseudo focus sash which make's Golem live x4 weak moves from grass and watermons and hit them hard back with its STABS. Suckerpunch is useful against Choicescarf users, hitting them pretty hard. The downside is that, the set is very much prone to priority moves as usually Golem is at low HP when Weakness Policy is activated, as priority is in abundance in the tier it is somewhat hard to execute a 100% sweep. Make sure you there are no rocks on the field to make 100% use of sturdy.
 
The problem with Weakness Policy is that it is very situational. You cannot expect your opponent to hit you with a Super-Effective move every game. In fact, if they don't, you end up with dead weight, for example Drifblim.

Since Weakness Policy doesn't boost the user's Speed as well, many users are left to use priority moves, which may be low in power, even after Weakness Policy has been activated.

Try using Dual Screens support in order to help your set-up sweeper tank a Super Effective attack, which can help you activate Weakness Policy safely.

That said, I would like to recommend an unusual Weakness Policy set:

Piloswine @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash / Icicle Spear
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge / Superpower

Piloswine can take a "super effective" Fire-type attack with Weakness Policy, so that it can sweep/wallbreak. Although its Speed is terrible, its Attack is quite good so it can stallbreak effectively.

__

Here's another one:

Slurpuff @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 68 Spd / 188 Atk / 252 HP
Adamant Nature
- Cotton Guard
- Play Rough
- Surf / Flamethrower
- Return

With Cotton Guard, Slurpuff gets extraordinary Defense so that it can tank even a super effective physical hit. Then, this functions *almost* like the Belly Drum set, except with more leeway for special attacks.
 
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I mentioned this in the np thread but I don't think weakness policy has much potential in NU. There are too many requirements for a good WP user: it needs to be bulky / have a way to survive, have enough Speed or a way to boost it, be able to remove priority users, have multiple exploitable weaknesses. There aren't many apart from Golem, Carracosta, and Drifblim, and yeah I won't deny they are good WP users but there aren't many other things I can see that possess the same qualities as the 3 mons. Other Pokemon with similar qualities can potentially do so but they normally have better things to do

Metal Sonic said:
The problem with Weakness Policy is that it is very situational. You cannot expect your opponent to hit you with a Super-Effective move every game. In fact, if they don't, you end up with dead weight, for example Drifblim.

Since Weakness Policy doesn't boost the user's Speed as well, many users are left to use priority moves, which may be low in power, even after Weakness Policy has been activated.

Try using Dual Screens support in order to help your set-up sweeper tank a Super Effective attack, which can help you activate Weakness Policy safely.

That said, I would like to recommend an unusual Weakness Policy set:

Piloswine @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash / Icicle Spear
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge / Superpower

Piloswine can take a "super effective" Fire-type attack with Weakness Policy, so that it can sweep/wallbreak. Although its Speed is terrible, its Attack is quite good so it can stallbreak effectively.

__

Here's another one:

Slurpuff @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 68 Spd / 188 Atk / 252 HP
Adamant Nature
- Cotton Guard
- Play Rough
- Surf / Flamethrower
- Return

With Cotton Guard, Slurpuff gets extraordinary Defense so that it can tank even a super effective physical hit. Then, this functions *almost* like the Belly Drum set, except with more leeway for special attacks.
Click to expand...

I don't think either of these are very good WP users and I shall elaborate why:

- Piloswine: you probably never actually tested this out because I've no idea how it'll work. Piloswine's bulk stems from Eviolite and defensive EVs, and you have neither of those. This means that Piloswine will be hit very hard by super effective moves, and at the very least 2HKOed by strong neutral hits, including your "super effective" Fire-type moves. Afterwards if it survives maybe Piloswine can nab a kill at most before its poor Speed lets it down. I don't know how it'll stallbreak either because stall teams will just Toxic it and stall it out instead of attacking it.

- Slurpuff: it could work in some situations but I don't think Slurpuff has any business with this if you can run any of its normal sets which pretty much get the same thing done more reliably. Slurpuff doesn't have many exploitable weaknesses since Fairy is a great typing, and if you want to activate Weakness Policy that means setting up on Poison- or Steel-types, which is pretty counterproductive since you're supposed to get rid of these before attempting to sweep (very few things run poison or steel coverage). The SpA boost isn't really going to affect it much because Flamethrower already 2HKOes non-SDef Steelix with a bit of prior damage and it's a lot easier to just get rid of it first by wearing it down rather than setting up on one that can potentially just Roar you away. Also, Belly Drum is a lot stronger and more reliably set up. What you said about Drifblim is also true for this set; if they don't hit you with a super effective move, you're just dead weight because Slurpuff is just a slow, weak attacker which can be easily taken advantage of with setup sweepers and such. The difference is that Drifblim has more common weaknesses and has access to stuff like Sucker Punch and Endure to beat certain things that trouble ordinary WP users.
 
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I have seen an interesting Driftblim set with Weakness Policy

I am guess it was something like this

Driftblim@WP
Jolly Nature
Ability: Unburden
252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 HP
- Pain Split
- Acrobatics
- Endure
- Baton Pass

Weakness to common Ice and Dark Typing makes it an easy bait for those moves besides that it has weakness to ghost, electric and rock as well.
Endure ensures that it survives at least one hit and with Baton Pass the boost on the attacking stats can be transfered to another mon.
Besides that it is pretty much standart. Pain Split can heal off the damage it took, Acrobatics gets stronger and Unburden makes it faster.
 
mertyville said:
I have seen an interesting Driftblim set with Weakness Policy

I am guess it was something like this

Driftblim@WP
Jolly Nature
Ability: Unburden
252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 HP
- Pain Split
- Acrobatics
- Endure
- Baton Pass

Weakness to common Ice and Dark Typing makes it an easy bait for those moves besides that it has weakness to ghost, electric and rock as well.
Endure ensures that it survives at least one hit and with Baton Pass the boost on the attacking stats can be transfered to another mon.
Besides that it is pretty much standart. Pain Split can heal off the damage it took, Acrobatics gets stronger and Unburden makes it faster.
Click to expand...

I have seen a set similar to this before but I still have to ask. Why would you use this over Gorebyss who can also pass the same boosts and is more reliable with setting up Shell Smash thanks to overall higher defenses and better typing.
 
If you are using baton pass Drifblim, stockpile > endure. Though personally, I think Drifblim is strong enough to abuse the WP boosts with shadow ball, sucker punch, and acrobatics. Destiny Bond and Hypnosis are also somewhat useful on it.
 
It's nothing amazing, but I've used Weakness Policy Musharna to decent success in the past. The basic idea is to use Mushy's massive bulk to lure in SE attacks, weak Knock Off / U-turns, etc and then use its slow Baton Pass to get the recipient in safely (kinda similar to pivot Mushy from last gen, but its playstyle functions more aggressively). Main draw to this set is its slow BP; since Mush is so slow it'll almost always go second, which means you can take the hit, activate WP, BP out and the recipient comes in unscathed. Tried out a couple different partners, but the main one I liked was mixed Shiftry, since it can basically sweep both offense and stall at +2 +2 thanks to its coverage and STAB Sucker Punch, or at the very least give teams a good enough donking so that something else can clean up (and actually shares decentish synergy with Mush :o). Not a set I'd recommend for all teams since the loss of Lefties is actually really significant, but on offense it's a fun bulky pivot and hilarious if you can get it to work :toast:

Musharna @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: can be either max Def of max SpD depending on team
Bold / Calm Nature
- Baton Pass
- Psychic
- Moonlight
- filler (primarily I used Yawn to force switches but other options like Barrier or even Healing Wish work here too)

edit:
i2mj3Bj.png
 
Sorry about my absence all this time. The thread has been updated with Golem's description. I also corrected some stuff here and there, and I will soon be adding a set and description for Lunatone! It is honestly a great candidate IMO. It has good bulk, lotsa weaknesses, a good 95 Special Attack, Rock Poish to boost its Speed, Cosmic Power as well as Baton Pass to pass the boosts to a teammate, and a good movepool. Do you think Lunatone is viable? Are there any other Pokemon that could use Weakness Policy well? Right now I would like to discuss Lunatone and Musharna, as well as the following:
- Barbaracle (has Good Defense to take SE hits and Shell Smash to boost its speed and Attack, Tough Claws give it a little extra oomph)
- Torterra (pretty bulky all around with good attack and can boost Speed with Rock Polish)
- Omastar (great 125 Defense to take hits and can boost SpA and Speed with Shell Smash)
- Golurk (great all-around bulk, can uptake SE hits from both spectrums thanks to great HP and can boost speed with Rock Polish, Iron Fist is cool)
- Regirock (many weaknesses, ridiculous 200 defense along with 100 SDef and good HP as well allow it to take more hits than other users and boosts speed with a Rock polish)
- Regice (good amount of weaknesses, 200 SpD is off the charts, 100 Def is good, gets Rock Polish)


Just wanted to say I really love it when you guys are all discussing and we're all having a good time :D Thank you to all who have participated so far, and to those who haven't yet, speak up! Let your opinion be heard! :D We need you!

Ok time to discuss! Let's do this!
 
weakness policy is really, really situational. in my opinion, it's only particularly good on golem and carracosta. aside from those 2 pokemon, i cannot see weakness policy used on top teams because of how inconsistent it is. sturdy is very important for weakness policy pokemon.

weakness policy carracosta actually works well because carracosta isnt mostly useless even without weakness policy after it gets shell smash, and if it does get the weakness policy boost + shell smash, it can easily sweep. sturdy is very important for a weakness policy user. the concept of weakness policy on carracosta is very similar to liechi berry costa last gen, except for the most part, a bit more effective as most of the time, you get carracosta into the 25% range with super effective attacks anyways.

weakness policy golem is decent. i prefer just sticking weakness policy on the standard sr set. that may sound weird but i like using golem somewhat like a suicide lead, and the option of being able to use 1 really powerful attack is nice. even if you set up sr while the other mon is using a super effective attack, you can still hit them with sucker punch. make sure to use 252 atk / 252 speed if you do this. i don't like the rock polish golem much because it doesn't do diddly squat without the weakness policy boost. if you're expecting to get the rock polish boost AND the weakness policy boost, you're being very greedy, and that can cost you. it works with carracosta because he's still a threat after a shell smash even without the policy boost.
 
I'd like to add Regirock to the list of potential Weakness Policy User.
Regirock get an extremely good bulk of 80/200/100, which helps a lot to set up Rock Polish and Weakness Policy.
Regirock also get 2 handy abilities, Sturdy and Clear Body.
His access to Drain Punch make him a very durable user of Weakness Policy.

Regirock @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Stone Edge
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
 
there is so much stuff that can stop Weakness Policy Regirock that I don't even want tot bother naming them :/ Any Bulky Water or Grass type screws it over and it has NO way to get past them! You should use something that has at least some way arount this stuff or have something else lure them and get rid of them! try

Carracosta @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp Atk / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shell Smash.
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power[Grass]

cuz hey lets face it Carracosta is weak to Ground,Fighting,Grass.The Grass moves are gonna OHKO,Ground moves come from stuff like Rhydon that has no buisness being in on Carracosta in the first place,and Fighting if its from Primeape/Sawk it gets owned,if its from Poliwrath your setup just got blown away :/. Sturdy gives me a sureshot 100% Weakness Policy activated by stuff like Tangela and its ilk. But its kinda predictable imo. You have to be already in to use the weakness policy...and hazards screw this guy over..Maybe team it up the Boufflant I have in the creative moveset thjread? tl;dr Weakness Policy sucks and has no role in the metagame :/

Edit: Ah...I meant Shell Smash! thanks for pointing it out >_>
 
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Master Sunny-EX said:
there is so much stuff that can stop Weakness Policy Regirock that I don't even want tot bother naming them :/ Any Bulky Water or Grass type screws it over and it has NO way to get past them! You should use something that has at least some way arount this stuff or have something else lure them and get rid of them! try

Carracosta @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp Atk / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rock Polish
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power[Grass]

cuz hey lets face it Carracosta is weak to Ground,Fighting,Grass.The Grass moves are gonna OHKO,Ground moves come from stuff like Rhydon that has no buisness being in on Carracosta in the first place,and Fighting if its from Primeape/Sawk it gets owned,if its from Poliwrath your setup just got blown away :/. Sturdy gives me a sureshot 100% Weakness Policy activated by stuff like Tangela and its ilk. But its kinda predictable imo. You have to be already in to use the weakness policy...and hazards screw this guy over..Maybe team it up the Boufflant I have in the creative moveset thjread? tl;dr Weakness Policy sucks and has no role in the metagame :/
Click to expand...
Not having Shell Smash and access to aqua jet really makes the set you posted undesirable. At +2 carra isnt killing something like Licky which can phase it out with dragon tail. Also Rock Polishing on the predicted SE move is the same thing as Shell Smashing except you get extra attack. Also the drops arent even important because you are assuming that you will have hit sturdy so its irrelevant. Not being the physical set means that you can be revenge killed by anything with priority. Where as with the physical you can at least try to get a kill with Aqua Jet. Should at least change rock polish to shell smash, and while special is cool it isnt as good as physical.
 
ah....I meant Shell Smash >_> thanks for pointing it out! what I meant to say is that wekaness policy mons kinda suck becuase they are stopped by everything :/. I think it gets past Lickilicky with +4 Stone Edge not sure though. But fact is random priority ends this sets fun way too mcuh..... Rock Polish came to my mind because the post started out as being about hw much WP Regirock sucked >_>
 
Metal Sonic said:
Piloswine @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash / Icicle Spear
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge / Superpower
Click to expand...

May i suggest slashing FreezeDry with Icicle Crash and -Spear? Its is a good attack to have in general, as it really fucks with bulky waters, and literally rapes VileToad

:)
 
this actually looks like a useful set...but piloswine without eviolite isn't all that bulky...so how are you gonna actuvate it?
 
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