Victini (QC 4/4) (GP 0/2)

victini.png

Overview
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Don't be fooled by Victini's designation as a UU Pokemon in Gen V, as it sits firmly entrenched as a solid Pokemon in Gen VI OU. Although base 100 Attack may not scream “frightening physical attacker”, V-Create is Victini's great equalizer. With a 180 Base Power STAB move, Victini is capable of heavily denting even the bulkiest of Pokemon. Add this to Victini's ability to run powerful special sets utilizing its other nearly exclusive move in Blue Flare, and you have a Pokemon that can be incredibly difficult to switch into. Victini differentiates itself from other offensive fire-types with its access to powerful Electric-type moves, allowing it to easily dispatch of Water-type Pokemon. Victory Star also allows it to use powerful but inaccurate moves such as Focus Blast and Thunder with much greater success, allowing Victini to hit hard even off of a relatively low base 100 special attack stat.


For all of its positive qualities, Victini has quite a few things holding it back from truly shining. V-Create has brutal side effects, dropping Victini's defense, special defense, and speed in one fell swoop. This makes it incredibly weak to Pursuit trapping, which is a very debilitating weakness with Pokemon such as Bisharp and Tyranitar among the top in usage statistics. Fire/Psychic is a poor typing defensively, leaving Victini with a weakness to Stealth Rock in addition to Water, Ground, Ghost, and Dark. Even without drops, 100 base speed is simply not what it used to be, leaving Victini outsped by many common Pokemon even before a drop from V-Create. Despite these drawbacks, Victini's versatility can make it difficult to check, and don't be surprised to find the words 'not very effective' scroll uselessly onto the screen as one of its checks is reduced to ashes.

Wallbreaker
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Name: Wallbreaker
move 1: V-Create
move 2: Bolt Strike
move 3: Brick Break
move 4: U-Turn
ability: Victory Star
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Moves
========
With access to a 180 base power physical STAB move, a Choice Band is a natural fit on Victini. To demonstrate, here are some calcs against common defensive Pokemon found in OU. All totals assume a positive nature.

V-create (-1) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Landorus-T: 228-268 (44.7 - 52.8%)
V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Rotom-W: 152-179 (50 - 58.8%)
V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 276-326 (75.8 - 89.5%)
V-create vs. 252 HP /244 Def Hippowdon: 62.14% - 73.09%

V-Create is complemented by another incredibly powerful move in Bolt Strike, allowing Victini to make short work of any bulky water-type Pokemon thinking they can switch into V-Create. Bolt Strike also allows Victini to cleanly 2HKO Rotom-W switching in since its speed does not drop after using the move. Victory Star raises the accuracy from 85% to 93%, allowing Victini to use the move much more freely. Brick Break provides great synergy with V-Create, heavily denting Pokemon such as Heatran and Tyranitar who don't fear V-Create. U-Turn allows Victini to keep momentum and allows Victini to chip away at checks simutaenously. Zen Headbutt is a viable move on Victini, 2HKOing Mega Charizard X who takes pittance from anything else Victini can use. Trick is an option as well, but many of Victini's checks don't mind a Choice Band. Additionally, some of Victini's counters are Mega Pokemon, and using Trick against them leaves Victini locked into an effectively useless move.


Set Details
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Max Attack and Speed are used to maximize Victini's offensive potential. For the same reason, Choice Band is the primary item on the set. Life Orb can be used to switch moves, but with V-Create's drops you won't typically have the chance to switch moves anyway. There is also a significant drop in power that makes Victini much easier to play around. An Adamant nature gives more power while Jolly secures at least a speed tie with other max base speed 100 Pokemon. However, Victini usually forces switches, making Adamant the superior choice.

Usage Tips
========

Use team preview to your advantage. V-Create and U-Turn are going to be your main moves early-game and have almost completely opposite effects. Learn to recognize threats on the opponent's team; don't go spamming V-Create against a team with Pursuit users. Similarly, pay attention to set-up sweepers on your opponent's team. You do not want to be locked into V-Create when Intimidate Mega Gyarados or Dragon Dance Mega Charizard X is sitting on your opponent's team. If your opponent's physical resists are weaker defensive walls like Rotom-W or Landorus-T, V-Create will still to big chunks of damage to them and is usually better than U-Turn. Lastly, keep hazards off the field as Victini loses a quarter of its health every time it switches into Stealth Rock.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that can clear or set hazards are Victini's best friends. Like many Banded Pokemon, Victini will be switching in and out quite a bit, making its Stealth Rock weakness much more noticeable. If you can get Sticky Web support from Smeargle, then Victini can usually use V-Create a second time before switching out. Drought users such as Charizard-Y turn V-Create into a nuke. Choice Band V-Create in the sun has enough power to 2HKO Kingdra, which 4x resists V-Create. Dugtrio is able to trap Heatran and Tyranitar, two of the more common switch ins to Victini. It also traps Mega Charizard X, who resists almost anything Victini can throw at it. Ferrothorn and Skarmory can take almost all of the physical attacks aimed at Victini while setting up hazards of their own, and Skarmory can also Defog hazards if that becomes a problem. Mandibuzz resists the Ghost and Dark type attacks that plague Victini and can also clear the field of hazards. Vaporeon can deter the use of Water-type attacks against Victini and use Wish to heal Victini in return. Reliable phazers such as physically defensive Hippowdon can be very helpful, because V-Create attracts set-up sweepers like a magnet.

All Out Special Attacker
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Name: All Out Special Attacker
move 1: Blue Flare
move 2: Thunder
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Glaciate
ability: Victory Star
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Moves
========

Victini is one of two Pokemon to get Blue Flare, and Victory Star boosts its accuracy from an unreliable 85% to a much more consistent 93%. With Fire Blast being nerfed to 110 BP, Blue Flare now has a significant power difference over it. This set is all about dealing damage, and Thunder is a slightly more reliable 77% accurate on Victini thanks to Victory Star. Focus Blast is also 77% for Victini, and allows it to devastate the physically bulky Rock-types thinking V-create is coming. Glaciate nails Dragon-types on the switch, and the nifty 100% speed drop can cripple anything that switches into Glaciate. Grass Knot can be used to hit Quagsire and Gastrodon for super effective damage, but doesn't do much else. Hidden Power Ground can hit Heatran more accurately and Mega Charizard X for super effective damage, but isn't very strong coming off of 60 base power. V-Create is still viable to take on special walls that will eventually start to switch into this set as the match goes on, but Victini is hard pressed to give up any of its coverage and V-Create is noticeably weaker without investment. However, it is important to note that V-Create is still able to 2HKO Blissey even without investment.

Set Details
========

This Victini is an offensive variant, and EVs optimized for max power and speed are the only way to go. 4 EVs are in Defense instead of HP to give Victini an extra switch into Stealth Rock. Victini wants Modest to maximize damage, and its tendency to force switches supports the choice over Timid. Life Orb gives a consistent increase, and helps deal much more damage to Pokemon like Rotom-W who are neutral at worst to the entire set. Expert Belt increases longevity, but loses a lot of power on neutral or resisted hits. However, Expert Belt can bluff a choice item and allow for some surprise KOs on things like Tyranitar switching into Blue Flare.

Usage Tips
========

It's important to understand that a person's first thought when they see Victini is V-Create, and be aware that they are going to switch assuming V-create or U-Turn will come the first time. Therefore, first prediction is huge. An opponent usually assumes that Victini is running a physical set, and a well placed Focus Blast can devastate that Tyranitar looking to tank a V-Create. Know that your opponent will respond much differently when they realize it's a special attacking set, and change your predictions accordingly. Despite being by far the weakest move on the set, Glaciate can be one of the most useful, slowing and damaging checks just enough for Victini to finish them off with Blue Flare. It also can take massive chunks of HP from Dragonite and Garchomp, two solid counters to the physical set.

Team Options
========

Sun support from Charizard-Y powers up Blue Flare to sky high levels. Strong physical sweepers to take advantage of weakened physical walls make for good teammates, such as Mega-Charizard X or Mega Garchomp. Pokemon with strong priority can pick off Pokemon that Victini has hurt, such as Bullet Punch Scizor or Aqua Jet Azumarill. Skarmory can wall almost any physical attack aimed at Victini, and sets hazards to nail KOs or Defog to remove the hazards Victini hates. Most Pokemon that can remove hazards from Victini's side of the field are good teammates; Excadrill is a consistent spinner and can threaten bulky Rock-types like Tyranitar.

Choice Scarf
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name: Choice Scarf
move 1: V-Create
move 2: Bolt Strike / Trick
move 3: Final Gambit / Zen Headbutt
move 4: U-Turn
ability: Victory Star
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Moves
========
V-Create still hits like a truck even without a boosting item, and a Choice Scarf allows it it to attack faster and frailer Pokemon than other sets. Bolt Strike synergizes very well with V-Create and helps Victini revenge KO flying Dragon-types. Final Gambit can ruin stall teams, and at 341 max HP will take a huge chunk out of anything that manages to survive it. U-Turn allows Victini to scout for switches, and is useful because Choice Scarf Victini hates being locked into moves. Trick can cripple set up sweepers or dedicated walls, but can also be complete dead weight against offensive teams. Zen Headbutt is Victini's best option against Mega Charizard-X, who otherwise completely walls this set, and allows it to hit faster Fighting-types like Terrakion and Keldeo hard. However, both of these Pokemon commonly use Choice Scarves themselves, making Victini a shaky check.

Set Details
========
Max Speed and max Attack compliment the Choice Scarf in the best way possible, and the same can be said of a Jolly nature. Choice Scarf is what makes the set go, transforming Victini into a capable revenge killer. Choice Scarf pushes Victini's speed up to 492, outspeeding anything that is unboosted bar Deoxys-S and speed tying with other positive natured base 100s at +1.


Usage Tips
========
Choice Scarf is an item that has seen a noticable drop in usage and it isn't something that people necessarily expect anymore, so use that to your advantage. Similarly, most people try and set up on a Victini at -1 speed, but the Scarf essentially negates a -1 speed drop, meaning that you can often use a second V-Create on an unsuspecting opponent. The choice between Bolt Strike and Trick should be based on your team needs. If you need a more offensively inclined Pokemon and revenge killer, then choose Bolt Strike. If you would rather use Victini to try and cripple walls or stop slower set up sweepers, like most Calm Mind users, then Trick is the move of choice. Trick can also be incredibly useful against Pokemon such as Bisharp that utilize Sucker Punch, as it will cause the move to fail and then give the opponent the scarf. Final Gambit can be great against stall, where a Choice Scarf set isn't as useful. However, it must either be used early in the match or Victini must be kept at full HP to be useful, making it very situational at times. Team preview can help you know which moves will be more appropriate. If there are fast and frail Pokemon that can be checked by Choice Scarf Victini such as Greninja, then you don't want want to use Final Gambit or Trick away your Choice Scarf.


Team Options
========
V-Create locked Victini can be massive set-up bait for Pokemon that resist Fire type moves, such as Mega Charizard X, Intimidate Mega Gyarados, or Calm Mind Suicune. Pokemon that you use will be based on the other walls on your team, but there are some common variables. Unaware Quagsire can completely nullify any set up attempts by your opponent, making it a great partner for Choice Scarf Victini. For this reason, phazers pair very well with this Victini variant. Pokemon like Skarmory with Whirlwind or Physically Defense Hippowdon with Roar can handle some physical sweepers while Pokemon such as Sylveon with Roar can handle special set up Pokemon. Mega Venusaur can handle a number of these of physical and special sweepers while threatening back offensively. Bulky Intimidate Gyarados can also handle a number of sweepers by reverting their +1 to normal and Roaring them out. Because of the mechanics of Final Gambit, anti-hazard support is almost compulsory, and Scizor or Mandibuzz are great defoggers while Excadrill is a solid spinner. Slower stronger priority users such as Diggersby or Azumarill can take advantage of weakened faster Pokemon.


Trick Room Sweeper
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name: Trick Room Sweeper
move 1: V-Create
move 2: Bolt Strike
move 3: Brick Break
move 4: Trick Room
ability: Victory Star
item: Flame Plate / Life Orb
nature: Brave
evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
ivs: 0 Spe

Moves
========


Although it may seem a bit odd at first glance, Victini is actually a solid user of Trick Room. V-Create pairs well with Trick Room, as each drop of speed from V-Create now makes you ''faster'' within Trick Room, while being by far Victini's most powerful attack. Bolt Strike does large chunks of damage to the bulky Water-types looking to sponge a V-Create, and keeps your defense intact as well. Brick Break hits the rock types looking to take a V-Create, and is also the best way to deal with Heatran and Tyranitar. There are no real alternatives for this set, the three listed moves give the best coverage Victini has to offer.

Set Details
========

Flame Plate allows Victini to avoid recoil from Life Orb and power up V-Create. Since you're investing in bulk, you do not want to reduce your own health every turn. However, if you plan on using Victini as a one time wallbreaker, then Life Orb can help secure more Kos. 0 IVs in Speed and a Speed reducing nature make Victini as "fast" as possible within Trick Room. 252 EVs in Attack, with 248 in HP and the rest in defense, drastically increasing Victini's ability to take an extra hit.

Usage Tips
========

With 0 IVs and a reducing nature, Victini sits at 184 Speed, which means Victini would "outspeed" uninvested base 75s such as Mega-Scizor. Heatran has 190 Speed with no investment, meaning Victini will always have a lower stat than it. Slow defensive Pokemon such as Hippowdon and Slowbro will ''outspeed'' Victini in Trick Room even after a V-Create drop, so make sure they are eliminated before attempting to sweep. While it is primarily a late-game sweeper, Victini can still come in mid-game and fire off a V-Create due to the fact that most Pokemon switch out of Victini, mitigating your lack of speed. Use your opponent's team to know when to set up. This means that if your opponent is running hyper offense with multiple frail sweepers, you can set up slightly earlier than you would against a bulky team that needs to be weakened first. Know which priority users to eliminate before attempting to sweep. Victini's odd typing leaves it weak to weak to Aqua Jet, Shadow Sneak, and Sucker Punch, but resistant to Ice Shard, Mach Punch, Vacuum Wave, and Bullet Punch while being neutral to the priority Normal and Flying-type moves.

Team Options
========

Victini fits well onto a Trick Room team, as a setter, wallbreaker, or sweeper. Escavlier is a good Pokemon for a Trick Room team, and this bulkier variant of Victini can take the Fire-type moves Escavlier draws like a magnet(on). Reuniclus has been a staple on Trick Room teams since its introduction, and that is no different in X/Y, as it can absorb any passive damage thrown at the team and is a good complement to the physical Victini. Victini's bulk and typing also make it a good partner with Porygon2, as it resists the Fighting-type moves Porygon2 is weak to, while Porygon2 is immune to the Ghost-type moves that plague Victini. Hazard support also makes Victini's sweep easier, and Ferrothorn can tank the Surfs, Stone Edges, and Earthquakes commonly thrown at Victini. As always, Charizard-Y's Drought turns V-Create into a nuclear blast making Victini's sweep much easier. However, combining the sun with Trick Room turns can be very tricky.


Other Options
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Will-O-Wisp can ruin some of Victini's normal checks, but it has a hard time fitting into a moveset. Victini is part Psychic type, but none of its Psychic STAB moves hit particularly hard. Dazzling Gleam and Shadow Ball can be used for coverage, but are almost always outdamaged by V-Create or Blue Flare. Substitute can be used to ease prediction, but between Substitute and its vulnerability to hazards, this set gets worn down very quickly. A mixed set is feasible, but usually outdamaged by a maximum invested V-Create. Sunny Day can work on non-choiced sets to be more self-sustainable or help should your sun setter go down, but it has to give up a valuable coverage move for this, and Victini isn't very fast either.


Checks & Counters
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Different Victini sets have different counters, as it can go physical and special.

**Bulky Dragon-types**: These are Victini's main counters for either set, as they resist the powerful Fire and Electric-type moves that Victini throws around. Mega Charizard-X is probably the best overall counter, as it has a 4x resistance to Fire and takes and only takes 27.1 - 31.8% from a banded Bolt Strike while threatening back with Earthquake or setting up. Other bulky Dragon-types such as Garchomp and Multiscale Dragonite can take a V-Create and easily revenge a Victini at -1.

**Fast revenge killers**: Base 100 is not very fast, and Victini's best move drops its speed even further, making it incredibly prone to revenge killing. Pokemon such as Terrakion and Keldeo who utilize Choice Scarf themselves can always revenge KO any non Trick Room Victini, and Pokemon above base 100 speed such as Greninja and Landorus-I can revenge non-scarfed sets with Hydro Pump and Earth Power respectively. At -1, Victini drops to a speed of 164 in addition to the defense drops, and is revenge KOed by countless Pokemon. Dugtrio gets a special mention for always revenge killing Victini at -1 due to Arena Trap.

**Pursuit users**: Because of V-Creates nasty side effects, Victini may be one of the most Pursuit prone Pokemon in the game. Tyranitar has the added bonus of resisting V-Create, and easily OHKOs Victini trying to switch with Pursuit. Bisharp can play Sucker Punch and Pursuit mind games, or set up a Sub to at worst guarantee a KO with Pursuit on a -2 Victini that stayed in on the Substitute.

**Special Walls**: This obviously only applies to the special set, but bulky special walls hard wall Victini's special set. Chansey, Blissey, and Goodra get special mentions for being nearly untouchable, and being able to spread status or retaliate back in Goodra's case.

**Hazards**: Victini is a Pokemon that is going to be switching in and out a lot, and getting Stealth Rock specifically down early limits the number of times that it can switch in. It also greatly deters Victini from using U-Turn, as its U-Turn isn't that strong, which in turn makes it significantly easier to deal with. Heatran can deal with a Victini locked into any non Fighting-type move and also lay down the rocks that Victini hates.
 
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Wallbreaker
########
move 1: V-Create
move 2: Bolt Strike
move 3: Brick Break
move 4: U-Turn
ability: Victory Star
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

needs to be

Wallbreaker
########
name: Wall Breaker
move 1: V-Create
move 2: Bolt Strike
move 3: Brick Break
move 4: U-Turn
ability: Victory Star
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
 
Include this set:

Special Attacker
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name: Special Attacker
move 1: Blue Flame
move 2: Thunder / Thunderbolt
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Glaciate
ability: Victory Star
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Scarf sets need to be reexamined now that sun took a big hit, but they could still be viable. Same goes for the TR set. If don't know what the hell i am talking about check here. So, please test those sets.
 
needs to be

Fixed!

After testing, the scarf was alright, but not anything amazing. The main benefit it had was surprise factor; opponents never expected things like their greninja getting outsped and OHKOed by Bolt Strike. But with less frail attackers than Gen V, once opponents realized victini was scarfed, it just didn't have the power to break through very much. I found myself U-Turning more than I would have liked, which I say because a scarf set dependent on U-turn is 100% outclassed by genesect. I feel that its worth a mention in the other options section, but not worthy of its own set for the time being. If anybody else would like to test it, please do since I need to get to testing the other sets.

Will write and test special attacker tonight, get to trick room soon too.

EDIT: Special attacker rough draft written, should be able to get to trick room tomorrow.
 
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I have been trying more of a utility set on Victini and it has worked out fairly well.
Utility
######
name: Utility
move 1: Blue Flame
move 2: Thunder / Thunderbolt
move 3: Taunt
move 4: Toxic / Thunder Wave
ability: Victory Star
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
evs: 252 Hp / 100 Def / 156 Spe

Ok, so basically this set is meant to just spread some status around while being able to shut down anything that tries to setup and even with no offensive EV's this set hits pretty hard. Blue Flame is the main STAB, hitting hard while also having a chance to burn which is great. Thunder hits water types hard as well as destroy Talonflame. Thunderbolt can be used for better accuracy, but the drop in power is noticeable. Taunt lets Victini shut down any potential pokemon setting up. The last slot is a toss up between if you want to have your opponents slowly tick out or to slow them down and let a slower sweeper on your team come later and sweep. The EV's are fairly straightforward, max Hp lets Victini take hits. The 156 Spe EV's guarantee that Victini will outspeed Mega Scizor and OHKO it with Blue Flame unless it heavily invests in Sp.Def. The last bit of EV's are thrown into defence to let it take physical hits better. A thing to note is that Victini survives a +2 Shadow Sneak from Aegislash and OHKO's back with Blue Flame. Even with SR on the field Victini only has a 12.5% chance of getting OHKOed.

Thought I would just post that set and see what people think. I personally found that this set works out fairly well, but like all Victini sets, it struggles to deal with Tyranitar (unless I burn hax it), Greninja (it can survive a thunder and OHKO back with Hydro pump) and Rotom-W (can just eat the toxic if it still has chesto berry and threaten with STAB hydro pump). This set probably needs a bit more fine tuning, but I think that there is potential for a set like this for Victini.
 
Are the Fusion moves decent alternatives for those who lack access to the Japanese Event Victinis?

Yeah, tons of Pokemon would kill for Fusion Bolt, and since you seem to be talking about Wi-Fi battling and not simulators it would be fine. There's a noticeable drop in power, but getting a Japan event Victini legitimately is crazy hard now.
 
I'm not QC, but under the Usage Tips for the Trick Room set, it states that Victini hits 212 Speed with a Brave nature and 0 Speed IVs. I'm getting 184 Speed, which means Victini would "outspeed" uninvested base 75s, assuming they have 31 Speed IVs (ex: Mega Scizor). Or am I missing something?
 
Just a minor edit here I'm suggesting.

Under the team options of all three sets Ninetales is consistently mentioned as a source of sun support, but Mega Charizard Y is not mentioned once. Although it might be true that Ninetales works better as a dedicated sun setter, I think Mega Charizard Y should at least get a mention, considering its arguably the best drought user in OU.
 
I'm not QC, but under the Usage Tips for the Trick Room set, it states that Victini hits 212 Speed with a Brave nature and 0 Speed IVs. I'm getting 184 Speed, which means Victini would "outspeed" uninvested base 75s, assuming they have 31 Speed IVs (ex: Mega Scizor). Or am I missing something?

Ah I accidentally calculated that with 31 IVs, thanks for noticing.

Just a minor edit here I'm suggesting.

Under the team options of all three sets Ninetales is consistently mentioned as a source of sun support, but Mega Charizard Y is not mentioned once. Although it might be true that Ninetales works better as a dedicated sun setter, I think Mega Charizard Y should at least get a mention, considering its arguably the best drought user in OU.

I forgot about that when I wrote this, definitely adding that.

Mention that Ice Beam Mega Blastoise also takes care of many Pokémons that counter Victini : Notably Heatran, Ttar, Dragons.

And added this as well, thank you
 
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i wouldn't run tbolt on mixtini

thunder has an 81.3% chance to 2hko offensive heatran after sr, and to ohko max hp azumarill after sr. it ohkoes keldeo, has a 68.8% to ohko tail glow manaphy after sr, 93.8% chance to ohko megadactyl, and has a 62.5% chance to ohko mandibuzz after rocks. tbolt is not good enough (unfortunately -- 77% accuracy still sucks).
 
Victini absolutely needs anti hazard support one way or another. It should be the first team option.

V-create or u-turn are what youre going to be clicking almost always on the band set, meaning that you're either switching or getting forced out after a V-create or two. With rocks up you just die. Without rocks you can come back a lot and do serious damage.
 
i wouldn't run tbolt on mixtini

thunder has an 81.3% chance to 2hko offensive heatran after sr, and to ohko max hp azumarill after sr. it ohkoes keldeo, has a 68.8% to ohko tail glow manaphy after sr, 93.8% chance to ohko megadactyl, and has a 62.5% chance to ohko mandibuzz after rocks. tbolt is not good enough (unfortunately -- 77% accuracy still sucks).

So it would be better to remove it all together then instead of having it as the secondary slash?
 
I didn't see Scarf in OO. Anyway mention one big advantage is that you can use V-Create twice without being outsped by possible threats that otherwise can outspeed normal Victini after V-Create.
 
<ashborer> also, not related to charizard but I kind of like this Victini set ive been testing
<ashborer> sub / v-create / bolt strike / brick break @ life orb
<ashborer> issue with victini is that protect, kings shield, spiky shield really screw it
<ashborer> plus bulky ground with heatran and youll never do any damage
<ashborer> without perfect prediction
<ashborer> so sub fixes that
<ashborer> only issue is that you basically kill yourself doing it
<ashborer> http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-82649583
<TIBot> gk28 vs test ash | OU (suspect test) | Rated
<ashborer> hre's an xample
<ashborer> of victini beating a bulky ground and water type at once
<ashborer> usually band tini would struggle to do anything in that situation
<ashborer> IRonically, VIctini should demolish AEgislash but kings shield really makes the band set a joke..
<ashborer> Sub on kings shield and you make a fool out of aegis
<ashborer> http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oriserver-ou-68907
<TIBot> ash borer vs 199 Lives | OU | Unrated
<ashborer> another example of beating hippo + suicune, something tini would never be able to do with a band


Wallbreaker
########
name: Wall Breaker
move 1: V-Create
move 2: Bolt Strike
move 3: Brick Break
move 4: U-Turn / Substitute
ability: Victory Star
item: Choice Band / Life Orb
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe


pros of Sub set
  • Solves King's shield, spiky shield, protect scouting in general problem
  • Makes it much easier to slam Heatran and T-tar
  • Can actually break through bulky ground + water core without ungodly prediction skills
  • Sub is cool for blocking shit in general
Cons of Sub set

  • noticeably weaker than Band, against a team that doesnt utilize pokemon Sub victini is designed to defeat it just isnt as good
  • Sub + LO means that this Victini should not be in harm's way, at all, so Victini's solid 100/100/100 bulk cant really be used, you'll basically die from recoil and sub damage so this set must be played carefully
  • Anti Hazard Support is more important than ever, and Wish support helps a TON, so in general support is required moreso

I offer the replays in the irc log as evidence of something sub LO victini can do band tini cant. DOnt have any replays of punishing protect, or Heatran on hand sadly. But yeah I think it's worth a slash.
 
Huh that's pretty interesting, I mean holy balls you kill yourself quickly but it looks good before that happens. I'll give it a test run myself and see how it plays.
 
- Dragonite with Multiscale intact is probably the best overall counter, threatening with a powerful Earthquake or Roosting off the damage on a likely switch out, but still doesn't enjoy CB V-Create.
- Bulky Garchomp is one of the best counters to the physical set, resisting V-Create and being immune to Bolt Strike. Rocky Helmet variants get a special mention for forcing Victini to lose 25% of its health with every attack.

I'm curious; can the special set beat these guys? It would seem like it could, Glaciate on the switch sounds like it would slow them down/break the Multiscale and lead up to a KO if not KO them outright. Maybe mention it if so?
 
where is scarf lol

i think it's the most useful set in this meta, outspace scarfgene and being the most reliable lucario revenge killer anyone??
 
where is scarf lol

i think it's the most useful set in this meta, outspace scarfgene and being the most reliable lucario revenge killer anyone??

I was about to say this.
On top of that, Will-O-Wisp deserves a mention because it's a pretty good way to deal with a Mawile-M in a pinch (and can come pretty handy if you need to cripple some pokemons hard to deal with for your team). The only downside on Choice sets is that you totally lose the ability to hit Char-X for decent damages. Which makes Bulky Ground pokemons really good partners because not only they keep the memento intact after a U-Turn if your opponent switched to Heatran (which is what happens 95% of the time) but they can also check Char-X.
On the Scarf set, I'd say that Brick Break is pointless (hits Heatran for low damages + locks into something really annoying), and would prefer Will-O-Wisp or Zen Headbutt depending on your needs.

Peace.
 
MixedAttacker
########
Name: MixedAttacker
Move 1: V-Create
Move 2: Bolt Strike
Move 3: Focus Blast
Move 4: Psychic / Glaciate
Ability: Victory Star
Item: Expert Belt/Life Orb
Nature: Hasty/Naive
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

•V-Create is Victini's strongest STAB move and will 2HKO 252 HP 252 Def/Bold Blissey, and will hurt any other thing that doesn't resist it.

•Bolt Strike is a powerful physical electric move that is used to provide coverage for those pesky water types that will shorten Victini's life span

•Focus Blast can suprise Tyrantrum and Tyranitar which severely shorten Tini's life span

Psychic is there just for STAB alternitivly you can use Glaciate for added coverage of hitting ground types plus the speed drop is always nice
 
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