Project Victim of the Week

[Aragorn the King]

New Version Approved by OU Staff | Old Versions by TaBuu & s_aman | Art by anundeadboy

Every generation is different and the metagame is constantly changing. However, there has always been and always will be threats. Whether they are defensive threats or offensive threats, every competent player should have a way to handle top-tier threats. That's where you guys come in! This project aims to gather some of the common top-tier threats in the metagame and find Pokémon that can either check or counter them.

rules and procedure

Procedure:

1. Every round, I will nominate a Pokémon for discussion. Within ≈ 5 days' time, you guys will have the ability to discuss and nominate various Pokémon that you think can either check or counter the victim of the week.

2. I will post voting on Wednesday. Vote for your favorite check and favorite counter, and I'll choose the top three of each on Friday.

3. The results will be archived and the process will continue week after week.

rules and procedure

Rules:

1. Follow the definitions for checks and counters, by MattL in The Smog Issue 32!

2. Focus on posting OU-viable Pokemon.

3. The first two days of a week each user can only post one answer. From then to when I start voting, however, each user can post as many answers as they want.

4. Different sets of the same Pokemon can be nominated. For example, person a) can nominate Tail Glow Manaphy as a check to something, while person b) can nominate Calm Mind Manaphy as a counter to the same thing in the same week.

5. Help people out if you think they're wrong, but please be nice.

6. Post calcs if not obvious.

7. Have fun!
​

Archive

Mixed Mega Garchomp

Checks: Mega Altaria (Random Passerby) | Manaphy (ganj4lF) | Suicune (TheAntler)
Counters: Porygon2 (Ajwf) | Cresselia (Zebstrika) | Specially Defensive Gliscor (Zebstrika)

DD Mega Tyranitar

Checks: --- | Breloom (farmer Potato) | Terrakion (assurance)
Counters: Quagsire (Aragorn the King) | Hippowdon (KlynPar) | Chesnaught (Zebstrika)

Bulky DD Mega Charizard-X

Checks: Landorus-T (sparktrain) | Gyarados (WreckDra) | Mega Altaria (firehusky)
Counters: Slowbro (alexwolf) | Rhyperior (Lil YoshiXD) | Quagsire (Mowtom)

Mega Gardevoir

Checks: Talonflame (Sidnv) | Jirachi (Lil YoshiXD) | Skarmory (Aragorn the King)
Counters: Bronzong (Aragorn the King) | Doublade (Adrian Marin) | Victini (Smog Frog)

SpDef Gliscor

Checks: Mamoswine (AM) | Gyarados (Arikado) | Thundurus (TheInsanity)
Counters: Gengar (mcdanger) | Venusaur (Alexander.) | Starmie (alexwolf)

Calm Mind Suicune

Checks: Manaphy (Silly Dragons) | Raikou (Jin White) | CM Keldeo (Zebstrika)
Counters: Amoonguss (BlackLight) | Mega Latias (Random Passerby) | Celebi (escarlata)

AV Azumarill

Checks: Toxicroak (Hogg) | Rotom-W (Nuanda92) | Tentacruel (-Clone-)
Counters: Venusaur (Arikado) | Amoonguss (Slashari) | Ferrothorn (praj.pran)

NP + Twave Thundurus

Checks: --- | --- | Mega Manectric (linkinparkrules)
Counters: Raikou (Hogg) | Mega Charizard-X (escarlata) | Clefable (Jin White)

Band Staraptor

Checks: Mega Manectric (looiiyut2) | Mega Aerodactyl (Zebstrika) | Bronzong (Froggyboy)
Counters: Doublade (The Bravest Bird) | Skarmory (Lil YoshiXD) | Jirachi (Stallmory)

Freeze Dry Mamoswine

Checks: Mega Venusaur (Stallmory) | Manaphy (Random Passerby) | Mew (Lil YoshiXD)
Counters: Bronzong (Blinkie) | Suicune (-Clone-) | Rotom-H (The Bravest Bird)

SD Diggersby

Checks: Celebi (Albacore) | Offensive Mega Aerodactyl (Durant) | Air Balloon Terrakion (Random Passerby)
Counters: Skarmory (Salemance) | Defensive Mega Aerodactyl (Zebstrika) | Gengar (Puralux)

LO Taunt Gengar

Checks: Tornadus-T (The Bravest Bird) | Raikou (looiiyut2) | Hippowdon (Albacore)
Counters: Gliscor (FullLifeGames) | Goodra (Puralux) | Tentacruel (Celticpride)

SD LO Terrakion

Checks: Landorus-T (-Clone-) | Keldeo (looiiyut2) | Latias (WreckDra)
Counters: Doublade (boltsandbombers) | Golurk (G-Von) | Nidoqueen (Blinkie)
Fake Out Mega Lopunny
Checks: Gyarados (WreckDra) | Aerodactyl (Salemance) | Metagross (Puralux)
Counters: Chesnaught (Albacore) | Slowbro (-Clone-) | Mew (ArchPhantom)
AoA Mega Diancie
Checks: Metagross (-Clone-) | Landorus-T (firehusky) | Aggron (Random Passerby)
Counters: Mega Slowbro (Lil YoshiXD) | Mega Venusaur (FullLifeGames) | Bronzong (FookMi?)

Double Dance Mega Slowbro

Checks: Mega Sceptile (Celticpride) | Magnezone (looiiyut2) | Breloom (Teeny Victory)
Counters: Celebi (boltsandbombers) | Manaphy (FullLifeGames) | Mega Latias (Lil YoshiXD)

SD Mega Gallade

Checks: Talonflame (Celticpride) | Mega Pinsir (The Big Aristotle) | Tornadus-T (-Clone-)
Counters: Clefable (Albacore) | --- | Sableye (Lil YoshiXD)

CM Mega Sableye

Checks: Mega Houndoom (Zebstrika) | Talonflame (Recreant) | Mega Gardevoir (Celticpride)
Counters: Clefable (Clone.) | Mega Charizard-X (Hogg) | Manaphy (lbq)
Mega Metagross
Checks: Mega Manectric (hawk1113) | Hippowdon (Albacore) | Mega Houndoom (Celticpride)
Counters: Mega Slowbro (boltsandbombers) | Mega Scizor (Vinc608) | Victini (Random Passerby)

Mega Gyarados

Checks: Keldeo (Celticpride) | Ferrothorn (Arikado) | Skarmory (firehusky)
Counters: Chesnaught (AM) | AV Azumarill (ZANBAKUResh) | Mega Altaria (looiiyut2)

DDD Mega Altaria

Checks: Mega Metagross (Sanger Zonvolt) | Klefki (Tylta) | Scarf Jirachi (Random Passerby)
Counters: Mega Venusaur (Celticpride) | Clefable (ArchPhantom) | Ferrothorn (Harumonia Naturia)
Mega Houndoom
Checks: Heatran (ThePack) | Mega Gyarados (Random Passerby) | Garchomp (Frogifier)
Counters: Azumarill (Celticpride) | Keldeo (boltsandbombers) | Tyranitar (firehusky)
Scarf Landorus-T
Checks: Tank Garchomp (Teeny Victory) | Mega Scizor (ThePack) | Keldeo (P2)
Counters: Gliscor (Branflakes325) | Slowbro (boltsandbombers) | Skarmory (Lil YoshiXD)
SD Bisharp
Checks: Keldeo (-Clone-) | Low Kick Bisharp (ArchPhantom) | TankChomp (Jukain)
Counters: Cobalion (Vinc608) | Quagsire (FookMi?) | Infernape (Froggyboy)
Offensive SD Mega Scizor
Checks: Keldeo (FullLifeGames) | Victini (Celio) | Mega Manectric (Branflakes325) |
Counters: Mega Charizard X (Sanger Zonvolt) | Zapdos (Arikado) | Quagsire (GnralLao)
Specs Sylveon
Checks: Air Balloon Heatran (ThePack) | Talonflame (Branflakes325) | Mega Venusaur (G-Von)
Counters: Jirachi (boltsandbombers) | Chansey (Recreant) | Mega Aggron (yuruuu)
SD Talonflame
Checks: Omastar (Lil YoshiXD) | Mega Manectric (Sanger Zonvolt) | Clefable (FullLifeGames)
Counters: Rotom-W (Recreant) | Tyranitar (Random Passerby) | Quagsire (yuruuu)
Mega Beedrill
Checks: Garchomp (Bluwing) | Ferrothorn (Celio) | Mega Aerodactyl (FullLifeGames)
Counters: Alomomola (Celio) | Mega Scizor (P22) | Gliscor (Celticpride)
Volcarona
Checks: Mega Aerodactyl (Sanger Zonvolt) | Mega Altaria (astroboy) | Heatran (Lil YoshiXD)
Counters: SD Talonflame (Recreant) | Gyarados (Random Passerby) | Chansey (GnralLao)
Mega Manectric
Checks: Mega Charizard X (Random Passerby) | Mega Gardevoir (Analytic) | Clefable (ArchPhantom)
Counters: Hippowdon (ThePack) | Quagsire (Lil YoshiXD) | Mega Swampert (GnralLao)
Feraligatr
Checks: Rotom-W (Repeater1947) | Mega Venusaur (Sanger Zonvolt) | Clefable (fleggumfl)
Counters: Tangrowth (Celio) | Azumarill (Recreant) | Quagsire (GnralLao)
Weavile
Checks: Mega Slowbro (Recreant) | Azumarill (DarkNostalgia) | Mega Manectric (GnralLao)
Counters: Keldeo (boltsandbombers) | Mega Scizor (firehusky) | Clefable (Celticpride)

SubCM Keldeo

Checks: Unaware Clefable (Teeny Victory) | Dragalge (Random Passerby) | Alakazam (Tele)
Counters: Slowking (Flygonial) | Mega Altaria (Dr Ciel) | Celebi (Anima Artificialis)
Toxic Spikes Dragalge
Checks: Mega Metagross (Sanger Zonvolt) | Mega Scizor (Recreant) | Excadrill (fleggumfl)
Counters: Klefki (Random Passerby) | Jirachi (blinkie) | Cresselia (GnralLao)

Reuniclus

Checks: Scizor (fleggumfl) | Jirachi (ArchPhantom) | Mega Gyarados (Arikado)
Counters: Mega Scizor (Recreant) | Gliscor (Sanger Zonvolt) | Unaware Clefable (pye) | Mega Sableye (FullLifeGames)
Mega Sceptile
Checks: Mega Venusaur (bludz) | Skarmory (pye) | Tornadus-T (Recreant)
Counters: Talonflame (astroboy) | Mega Altaria (Sanger Zonvolt) | Cresselia (FookMi?)
Kingdra
Checks: Slowking (fleggumfl) | Mega Gardevoir (GnralLao) | Celebi (Teeny Victory)
Counters: Azumarill (astroboy) | Empoleon (bludz) | Mega Altaria (Sanger Zonvolt)
SD Breloom
Checks: Talonflame (firehusky) | Gengar (GnralLao) | Mega Metagross (Random Passerby)
Counters: Mega Latias (Celticpride) | Mega Altaria (Recreant) | Unaware Clefable (Dr Ciel)

LO Conkeldurr

Checks: Clefable (Sanger Zonvolt) | Focus Sash Alakazam (fleggumfl) | Mega Gardevoir (thecrystalonix)
Counters: Mega Venusaur (Random Passerby) | Mega Slowbro (Lord Abbadon) | Mega Sableye (Recreant)
Serperior
Checks: Talonflame (Sanger Zonvolt) | Mega Venusaur (ArchPhantom) | Tornadus-T (Lil YoshiXD)
Counters: Sap Sipper Azumarill (-Clone-) | Heatran (GnralLao) | Goodra (SketchUp)

LO Tornadus-T

Checks: Mega Aerodactyl (Recreant) | Mega Manectric (GnralLao) | Choice Scarf Jirachi (Random Passerby)
Counters: Zapdos (SwedishBiscuit) | Rotom-W (komet3) | Mega Ampharos (Zebstrika)
Toxicroak
Checks: Mega Aggron (InvisibleWater) | Landorus-T (astroboy) | Scizor (Random Passerby)
Counters: Skarmory (Vinc608) | Mega Sableye (Lil YoshiXD) | Quagsire (GnralLao)

LO Hydreigon

Checks: Porygon2 (SwedishBiscuit) | Mega Venusaur (noobcubed) | Mega Gardevoir (littlelucario)
Counters: Azumarill (Recreant) | Chansey (Random Passerby) | ---

Mega Alakazam
Checks: Scizor (fleggumfl) | Mega Sableye (boltsandbombers) | Slowking (Random Passerby)
Counters: Jirachi (SketchUp) | Mega Scizor (Eudemon) | Hippowdon (Celticpride)
Calm Mind Magic Guard Clefable
Checks: Heatran (Lil YoshiXD) | Mega Metagross (InvisibleWater) | Gliscor (scald)
Counters: Dragalge (Recreant) | Victini (Albacore) | Unaware Clefable (AllJokesAside)
NP Togekiss
Checks: Excadrill (Albacore) | Raikou (-Clone-) | Jirachi (Lil YoshiXD)
Counters: Mega Diancie (Dr Ciel) | Heatran (GnralLao) | Mega Ampharos (Fredrick1)
Mixed Infernape
Checks: Gyarados (Albacore) | Mew (Fire-breather Richard) | Dragalge (GnralLao)
Counters: Latias (Sanger Zonvolt) | Chandelure (InvisibleWater) | Slowking (Recreant)
SD Mega Charizard X
Checks (a): Garchomp (fleggumfl) | Rhyperior (bludz) | Quagsire (Lil YoshiXD)
Checks (b): Mega Diancie (Random Passerby) | ScarfTran (InvisibleWater) | Mega Slowbro (Albacore)
TG + 3 Attacks Manaphy
Checks: Kyurem-B (bludz) | Mega Slowbro (GnralLao) | Serperior (MrAldo)
Counters: Encore Mega Gardevoir (escarlata) | Unaware Clefable (DarkNostalgia) | Raikou (Recreant)
Agility Thundurus-T
Checks: Jirachi (Albacore) | Raikou (Random Passerby) | ---
Counters: Hippowdon (GnralLao) | Mega Latias (Sanger Zonvolt) | Chansey (Level 56)

AoA Mega Blastoise

Checks: Raikou (boltsandbombers) | Tangrowth (InvisibleWater) | Mega Venusaur (Sanger Zonvolt)
Counters: Clefable (Tressed) | Chansey (Level 56) | Gyarados (escarlata)

Offensive Mega Aerodactyl

Checks: Mega Metagross (Sanger Zonvolt) | Jirachi (Random Passerby) | Scizor (Human Mystery Box)
Counters: Garchomp (Analytic) | Slowbro (Vinc608) | Empoleon (escarlata)
LO Starmie
Checks: Slowking (Random Passerby) | Tangrowth (Dr Ciel) | Mega Gyarados (Recreant)
Counters: Chansey (michaeloche) | Kyurem-B (PikachuCandyツ) | Goodra (InvisibleWater)
Agility Mega Ampharos
Checks: Tangrowth (yuruuu) | Garchomp (fleggumfl) | Mega Gardevoir (ShiningFire08)
Counters: Mega Altaria (GnralLao) | Mega Venusaur (SketchUp) | Clefable (JTD783)
CB Azumarill
Checks: Toxicroak (AD impish john) | Mega Scizor (Sanger Zonvolt) | Serperior (GnralLao)
Counters: Mega Venusaur (michaeloche) | Mega Slowbro (Random Passerby) | Celebi (bludz)
Mixed Thundurus
Checks: Mamoswine (rubsomebacononit) | Hippowdon (fleggumfl) | Mega Altaria (michaeloche)
Counters: Clefable (TONE114) | Mega Venusaur (Recreant) | Mega Charizard X (False)
CM Roar Suicune
Checks: Mega Sceptile (GnralLao) | Breloom (False) | Magnezone (Gros orteil)
Counters: Serperior (Recreant) | Raikou (Random Passerby) | Toxicroak (escarlata)
LO Latios
Checks: Tyranitar (Recreant) | Mega Gardevoir (MrAldo) | Skarmory (-Lone)
Counters: Clefable (bludz) | Togekiss (Dr Ciel) | Jirachi (Random Passerby)
Work Up Mega Pidgeot
Checks: Kyurem-B (Sanger Zonvolt) | Mega Manectric (Random Passerby) | Mega Aerodactyl (Albacore)
Counters: Choice Scarf Jirachi (Dr Ciel) | Tyranitar (celebitrainer36) | Magnezone (JTD783)
SubSD Garchomp
Checks: Klefki (escarlata) | Mega Altaria (Albacore) | Mamoswine (Sanger Zonvolt)
Counters: Togekiss (Tressed) | Quagsire (GnralLao) | Clefable (Recreant)
CB Dragonite
Checks: Mega Metagross (Tressed) | Skarmory (michaeloche) | Mega Diancie (InvisibleWater)
Counters: Mega Altaria (Recreant) | Clefable (SketchUp) | Togekiss (Albacore)
CB Entei
Checks: Keldeo (Twix) | Mega Altaria (GnralLao) | Gliscor (Albacore)
Counters: Slowbro (Sanger Zonvolt) | CM Manaphy (Recreant) | Suicune (Gary2346)
CM Raikou
Checks: Mega Charizard X (Wheezer) | Mega Altaria (@ecarlata) | Mega Venusaur (Albacore)
Counters: Mamoswine (Recreant) | Quagsire (InvisibleWater) | Ferrothorn (noobcubed)
CB Scizor
Checks: Mega Manectric (michaeloche) | Magnezone (Mentalist Swag) | Keldeo (noobcubed)
Counters: Garchomp (JTD783) | Hippowdon (GnralLao) | Mega Scizor (escarlata)
SubSD Hawlucha
Checks: Landorus-T (jacob) | Skarmory (Vinc608) | Mega Gardevoir (escarlata)
Counters: Quagsire (Albacore) | Clefable (JTD783) | Zapdos (bludz)
SubSD Cobalion
Checks: Hippowdon (michaeloche) | Mega Lopunny (escarlata) | SpD Talonflame (@False.)
Counters: Landorus-T (fleggumfl) | Quagsire (Recreant) | Slowbro (-Magic- )
Mixed Victini
Tyranitar (Shiny Girl) | Chandelure (InvisibleWater) | Terrakion (mew-2Chainz)
Mega Charizard X (Random Passerby) | Mega Latias (Recreant) | Snorlax (SketchUp)
Curse Gastrodon
Checks: Unaware Clefable (Viridi) | Mega Alakazam (Coton) | Thundurus (michaeloche)
Counters: Celebi (AD impish john) | Mega Charizard Y (Tressed) | Mega Sceptile (InvisibleWater)
Utility Mega Sableye
Checks: Mega Charizard Y (FullLifeGames) | Azumarill (AD impish john) | Mega Gardevoir (fleggumfl)
Counters: Clefable (InvisibleWater)| CM Mega Sableye (Albacore) | Manaphy (Mentalist Swag)
Defensive Slowbro
Checks: Hydreigon (Albacore) | --- | Mega Manectric (-Magic-)
Counters: Celebi (Recreant) | Gastrodon (SwedishBiscuit) | Serperior (Erai14)
SD Gliscor
Checks: Serperior (michaeloche) | Keldeo (AD impish john) | Weavile (littlelucario)
Counters: Mega Latias (False) | Kyurem-B (Recreant) | Landorus-T (toshimelonhead)
LO Hydreigon
Checks: Keldeo (Recreant) | Mega Diancie (@InvsibleWater) | Infernape (littlelucario)
Counters: AV Azumarill (False) | Porygon2 (wishes) | CM Blissey (p2)
AV Tangrowth
Checks: Mega Pinsir (littlelucario) | Volcarona (Tressed) | Roserade (-Magic-)
Counters: Mega Venusaur (GnralLao) | DDD Mega Altaria (p2) | Mega Heracross (Twix)
CM Latios
Checks: Weavile (Skarmx2) | Mega Altaria (Random Passerby ) | Cacturne (littlelucario)
Counters: Mega Scizor (Recreant) | ScarfTar (Infernal) | AV Metagross (Random Passerby)
LO Alakazam
Checks: Weavile (False) | Scarf Jirachi (@Radom Passerby) | Meloetta (SwedishBiscuit)
Counters: AV Tornadus-T (Mentalist Swag)| Chansey (littlelucario) | CM Blissey (nameless90)
Magma Storm Heatran
Checks: AV Azumarill (CharizardIsMeh) | CB Tyranitar (False) | Dugtrio (Random Passerby )
Counters: Suicune (matthewc20090) | RestTalk Mega Garchomp (TURBODERP) | Rest Manaphy (Infernal)
DD Dragonite
Checks: Scarf Kyurem-B (matthewc20090) | Bronzong (p2) | Mamoswine (Random Passerby)
Counters: Unaware Clefable (Recreant ) | Togekiss (TURBODERP) | Mega Audino (HC)
CM Manaphy
Checks: Mega Sceptile (Phantom Me) | Mega Alakazam (Random Passerby) | ---
Counters: Curse Gastrodon (boltsandbombers) | NP Celebi (Tressed) | Shaymin (Recreant)
CB Tyranitar
Checks: Keldeo (boltsandbombers) | Breloom (MrAldo) | Landorus-T (michaeloche)
Counters: Chesnaught (Dr Ciel) | Hippowdon (Viridi) | Rocky Helmet Garchomp (InvisibleWater)
Nidoking
Checks: Mega Latias (Tressed) | Keldeo (Thatwackycruton) | Latios (Sobi)
Counters: Porygon2 (Mentalist Swag) | CM Meloetta (SketchUp) | Curse Gastrodon (False)
DD Zygarde
Checks: Mega Altaria (InvisibleWater) | Mamoswine (Random Passerby) | Azumarill (Sobi)
Counters: Skarmory (p2) | Mega Slowbro (Terrakion.) | Whimsicott (Mentalist Swag)

DD Landorus-T

Checks: Weavile (JTD783) | Mamoswine (Cheryl.) | Magnet Rise Klefki (Recreant)
Counters: Quagsire (Sobi) | Mega Latias (Infernal) | Chesnaught (wishes)
Scarf Jirachi
Checks: SD Salac Endure Garchomp (False) | ScarfChomp (llSECRETSWORDll) | Talonflame (jordanthejq12)
Counters: Heatran (Skarmx2) | Mega Slowbro (-Magic-) | TankChomp (Sobi)

SD Mega Heracross

Checks: Mega Gardevoir (Viridi) | Crobat (FullLifeGames) | Tornadus-T (Recreant)
Counters: Doublade (Mentalist Swag) | Acrobatics Gliscor (Albacore) | Mega Altaria (p2)
Specs Kyurem
Checks: Azumarill (Cheryl.) | AV Metagross (InvisibleWater) | Specs Keldeo (jordanthejq12)
Counters: Chansey (Viridi) | Slowking (AllJokesAside) | Florges (VKW)
Band Kyurem-B
Checks: Mega Diancie (GnralLao) | Mega Altaria (CharizardIsMeh) | Scarf Jirachi (Viridi)
Counters: Ferrothorn (Infernal) | Physically Defensive Mega Scizor (False) | Doublade (paper dreams
Volcanion
Checks: Sitrus Berry Fast Rotom-W (False) | Latios (Tressed) | Mega Manectric (matthewc20090)
Counters: Mega Latias (Dr Ciel) | Goodra (Martin.) | Jellicent (Skarmx2)
Kabutops

Checks: RestTalk Keldeo (False) | Ferrothorn (littlelucario) | Toxicroak (Hot dog pizza)
Counters: Poliwrath (Martin.) | Chesnaught (Recreant) | Tangrowth (Eutychios)
Band Terrakion
Checks: Landorus-T (Infernal) | Mega Metagross (matthewc20090) | Mega Alakazam (SP458)
Counters: Doublade (SketchUp) | Mega Slowbro (Recreant) | Cofagrigus (Sobi)

CM Mega Latias

Checks: Scizor (InvisibleWater) | Weavile (matthewc20090) | Mega Gardevoir (False)
Counters: CB Tyranitar (Infernal) | Mega Scizor (Recreant) | Heatran (toshimelonhead)

Mega Medicham

Checks: Talonflame (FireMonkeyGamer) | Hawlucha (-Magic-) | Mega Metagross (InvisibleWater)
Counters: Mega Slowbro (nameless90) | Cofagrigus (Random Passerby) | Doublade (Sobi)

Sand Rush Excadrill

Checks: Chesnaught (Random Passerby) | CB Azumarill (HailFall) | Hippowdon (FireMonkeyGamer)
Counters: Tangrowth (SP458) | Bronzong (matthewc20090) | Rotom-W (SketchUp)
SubSeed Serperior
Checks: Mega Charizard Y (SP458) | Mega Pidgeot (FireMonkeyGamer) | ScarfTran (nameless90)
Counters: Sap Sipper Azumarill (Hot dog pizza) | AV Tornadus-T (Infernal) | Mega Venusaur (GnralLao
Max Attack Mega Diancie
Checks: Scarf Landorus-T (Raymond Quaza) | Mega Metagross (Random Passerby) | Mega Scizor (michaeloche)
Counters: Jirachi (Infernal) | Gastrodon (CrystalRam) | Defensive Mega Venusaur (Sobi)

Mega Charizard-Y

Checks: Scarf Tyranitar (michaeloche) | Goodra (CrystalRam) | Mega Diancie (Viridi)
Counters: Mega Latias (ethanlol) | Politoed (wishes) | SpD Talonflame (detviech)
Mega Pinsir
Checks: Mega Diancie (CrystalRam) | Rhyperior (Infernal) | Rotom-W (michaeloche)
Counters: Zapdos (Random Passerby) | Hippowdon (nameless90) | Solrock (Hot dog pizza)
Specs Magnezone
Checks: Dugtrio (detviech) | Garchomp (SP458) | Magnezone (kek123)
Counters: Gastrodon (AAamen) | Chansey (Random Passerby) | Quagsire (michaeloche)

SD Crawdaunt

Checks: Keldeo (ericaroselia) | Breloom (Skarmx2) | Dragonite (Jeronado)
Counters: Chesnaught (detviech) | Mega Altaria (noobcubed) | Mega Venusaur (Recreant)
BD Azumarill
Checks: Toxicroak (CrystalRam) | Serperior (Drackin) | Volcanion (Recreant)
Counters: Mega Venusaur (Empo) | Itemless Amoonguss (False.) | Quagsire (HailFall)
SD Lucario
Checks: Garchomp (Broken Promises;) | Reuniclus (0besity) | Gengar (GnralLao)
Counters: Doublade (HQuaze) | Jellicent (SP458 ) | Slowbro (Random Passerby)
Offensive DD Mega Charizard X
Checks: Defensive Mega Tyranitar (False.) | Mega Diancie (InvisibleWater) | Ensure SD Salac Garchomp (CrystalRam)
Counters: Quagsire (Littlelucario) | Hippowdon (Empo) | Rhyperior (Infernal)
SubSD FlyNite
Checks: Kyurem-B (Recreant) | Hyper Voice Mega Altaria (Random Passerby) | Thundurus (SP458)
Counters: Vincune (Infernal) | Mega Diancie (AAamen) | Encore Clefable (False.)
VinCune
Checks: Breloom (Littlelucario) | --- | --
Counters: Manaphy (Random Passerby) | Curse Gastrodon (cmurph) | SubCM Keldeo (SP458)
Choice Specs Hydreigon
Checks: Keldeo (Recreant) | Mega Medicham (OverlordDerp) | Mega Diancie (matthewc20090)
Counters: Chansey (GnralLao) | Umbreon (SketchUp) | AV Azumarill (Littlelucario)
Choice Specs Latios
Checks: ScarfTar (Akumeoy) | AV Metagross (Icing On Da Cake) | Weavile (Amoonguss)
Counters: Umbreon (False.) | SpD Jirachi (Littlelucario) | ---
Checks: Mega Venusaur (Zimzy) | Keldeo (matthewc20090) | Hydreigon (CrystalRam)
Counters: Chesnaught (The Quasar) | Mega Altaria (Cheryl.) | Poliwrath (Martin)

CB Crawdaunt

Checks: Mega Venusaur (Zimzy) | Keldeo (matthewc20090) | Hydreigon (CrystalRam)
Counters: Chesnaught (The Quasar) | Mega Altaria (Cheryl.) | Poliwrath (Martin)

Specs Keldeo

Checks: Slowbro (slurmz) | AV Tornadus-T (Zimzy) | Celebi (HC)
Counters: Jellicent (Cheryl.) | Mega Venusaur (Aragorn the King) | Amoonguss (Littlelucario)

Hall of Fame
44 - Recreant
43 - Random Passerby
29 - GnralLao
20 - Lil YoshiXD
20 - Albacore
19 - False.
19 - InvisibleWater
19 - P2
19 - Sanger Zonvolt
15 - Infernal
14 - Celticpride
14 - michaeloche
13 - escarlata
12 - boltsandbombers
12 - Clone
12 - Littlelucario
12 - Zebstrika
9 - FullLifeGames
9 - matthewc20090
9 - SketchUp
9 - Tressed
8 - WreckDra
7 - Arikado
7 - bludz
7 - CrystalRam
7 - firehusky
7 - Salemance
7 - SP458
7 - Sobi​

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

AraEDIT: LO Landorus was week #1


Dragonite: Counter
I chose dragonite, more specifically cbbnite, because it has tons of bulk and isnt weak to landorus-i's moves. it is also a great check to many other special threats, like keldeo, and isnt weak to pursuit, and has multiscale, so it can most likely counter lando-i at any point in the game.

Set:
Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 216 HP / 64 Atk / 228 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Moonlight
- Toxic

Cresselia is immune to earth power and resists psychic and focus blast. Knock off does minimal damage
4 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 140-166 (31.5 - 37.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This can easily be healed off by moonlight

sludge wave barely hurts: 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 129-152 (29 - 34.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

even u-turn barely does anything: 4 Atk Life Orb Landorus U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 101-122 (22.7 - 27.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Basically Cresselia hard walls Landorous with ease. Only trouble is Landorous is often paired with Pursuit users in Aegislash, Tyranitar, and Bisharp so it must be brought in carefully.


Some counters I've found for people looking for ideas: Chansey, blissey (doesn't fear knock off), Milotic, Mantine, Claydol, DeoxysD, articuno, meloetta, vaporeon, Mandibuzz, zapdos Gyarados, MegacharizardY Mega Gardevoir
latias, mew, jellicent, porygon2 and slowking, Bronzong, assault vest tornadusT only fear knock off
altaria and dragonite only fear hp ice

 

[Salemance]

So just this partiuar set right? Not the pokemon as a whole where we have to consider Gravity shenanigans and what not right?

 

[Aragorn the King]

Salemance The old thread was always done just by focusing on one set in particular. However, that was kinda seen as controversial. I'd say focus on this one set, and don't worry about HP Ice, Sludge Wave, Gravity, Rock Polish, or Calm Mind. Those can all get different weeks of C&C's, but this week is only for Knock Off Special Lando. But I'm free to change that :) Also, does everyone agree with what I said here? Should a threat only have to always beat Landorus, or should it also have to work in the metagame?

 

[Salemance]

One of the better Counters to Landorus that I've used is the old RestTalk Gyarados.

Gyarados

Counter

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 40 Def / 200 SDef / 16 Spd
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

While his Mega may take a lot of the spotlight, regular Gyarados can still function in a myriad of ways and forms. One of the advantages it possess over its Mega Form is that it can function as a reliable switch in to fighting attaks and special attacks, just like the ones Landorus is known to carry. With the strongest move available for this part being Psychic a 3HKO after SR (with lefties and acting as if it hasn't knocked them off yet) allows for it to comfortably absorb any attack that the land Genie throws at it. While Rest Talk being the main form of recovery and SR being a minor hamper to his party, Gyarados can still comfortably tackle the wallbreaker before having to take a short nap.

 

[Inspirited]

Name: Mamoswine

Check vs Counter

Strong Pig

Mamoswime @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 244 Atk / 16 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive nature
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Freeze Dry

One of the best offensive checks to Landorus out there, Mamoswine literally makes the genie shiver at the thought of Ice Shard. Even if it gets its own Life Orb Knocked Off when switching into Landorus (which you should never do by the way), Landorus's Life Orb will bring it into KO range of Ice Shard. If Mamoswine is brought in freely on Landorus, Landorus cannot stay in on Mamo and stay in the game. The trouble is, Mamo needs to be brought in freely, especially with a Naive nature. It cannot take a hit from Landorus as Earth Power and Focus Blast both easily KO, and Psychic will greatly reduce the amount of Life Orb hits Mamo has left to continue checking Landorus. Knock Off will cripple Mamo's capability to 2HKO other threats as well and will make Freeze Dry more or less useless.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Is this Bird? (Tornadus-Therian) (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 132 HP / 160 SAtk / 216 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- HP Ice / Focus Blast / Heat Wave

AV Bird is a pretty good counter, though it hates switching in to Knock Off but it can still win the match-up without Vest. It can switch into Sludge Wave or Psychic, take less than 40% and then Knock Off Lando's Life Orb and then follow up with Hurricane or HP Ice. Hurricane has a chance to KO after rocks+Knock Off, while HP Ice is a guaranteed KO after Knock Off or a 68.8% chance to KO after rocks. It is also faster than Lando-I so even when it switches in to Stealth Rock+Knock Off and can't take another hit, it's still able to outspeed and KO. It also has Regenerator, so if it switches into a Psychic and scares away Lando, it can just switch out and recover most of the health it lost. Defogger as a partner is a very good idea.

 

[SP458]

KACAW (Read: Counter)

Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 108 SpD / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Knock Off
- Defog
- Roost

Earning the titile of Aegislash's nemesis, Mandibuzz can also cause serious problems to Landorus, as she's immune to both Earth Power and Psychic. The EVs allow her to not be 2HKOed by Focus Blast without SR, giving opportunities to Roost off the damage. In return, Knock Off removes its Life Orb, severely limiting its damage output. She can then wear down the genie with Foul Play, dealing over 42% damage to Naive variants. Outside of countering Landorus, Mandibuzz provides nice physical bulk and Defog support for her team.

 

[Aragorn the King]

KACAW (Read: Counter)

Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 108 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Foul Play
- Knock Off
- Whirlwind
- Roost

Earning the titile of Aegislash's nemesis, Mandibuzz can also cause serious problems to Landorus, as she's immune to both Earth Power and Psychic. The EVs allow her to not be 2HKOed by Focus Blast without SR, giving opportunities to Roost off the damage. In return, Knock Off removes its Life Orb, severely limiting its damage output. She can then wear down the genie with Foul Play, dealing over 42% damage to Naive variants. Outside of countering Landorus, Mandibuzz provides nice physical bulk for her team.

That's a nice set! I was always wondering why people said it could beat Lando. Your post helped me remember: Knock Off. The only problem I have with this set is that it lacks Defog, which is usually thought of as the reason to use Mandibuzz. What would you think about replacing Whirlwind with Defog?

 

[SP458]

That's a nice set! I was always wondering why people said it could beat Lando. Your post helped me remember: Knock Off. The only problem I have with this set is that it lacks Defog, which is usually thought of as the reason to use Mandibuzz. What would you think about replacing Whirlwind with Defog?

To be fair, both moves are viable on Mandibuzz: Whirlwind deals with set-up sweepers while Defog removes hazards. I hesitated between the Knock Off + Whirlwind combo and Defog's utility, as both Foul Play and Knock Off are necessary for this set. After reading your reply, I've put Defog in Mandibuzz's set.

 

[Epique.]

Keldeo as a check for Landorus

@ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power Flying / Scald

Keldeo, thanks to its amazing typing and speed stat, is a really good offensive check for Landorus-I. It can easily KO Lando with Hydro Pump, Scald or Icy Wind and cannot be pursuit trapped since it is also a check for pokémon like Tyranitar and Bisharp. This mon can´t switch into Lando because it is severely damaged by Earth Power, Psychic (as it hits SE) and Focus Blast. If Keldeo finds a free turn to blast into battle Lando will be usually forced to switch (the RP set prevents this) and take in a Keldeo counter (like Latias), usually loosing a lot of momentum when the foe predicts the obvious play and goes for its own trapper. Using Landorus in conjunction with Azumarill makes it easier to play against offensive (or HO) teams with Keldeo.

 

[Sidnv]

Here's the check I use the most often.
Name: Thundurus-I

Type: Counter

Thundurus is perhaps the best check to Landorus in that it is almost a counter. Additionally, Thundurus often gets free switch-in's because it takes nothing from Earth Power. The following set is the Thundurus that deals with Landorus the best.

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast

Thundurus can switch in on any of Landorus' moves and OHKO the next turn with HP-Ice. It doesn't like losing its Life Orb to Knock Off but even if Landorus uses Knock Off, Life Orb recoil + HP-Ice will OHKO in return.

 

[alexwolf]

Name: Mamoswine

Check vs Counter

Strong Pig

Mamoswime @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 244 Atk / 16 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive nature
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Freeze Dry

One of the best offensive checks to Landorus out there, Mamoswine literally makes the genie shiver at the thought of Ice Shard. Even if it gets its own Life Orb Knocked Off when switching into Landorus (which you should never do by the way), Landorus's Life Orb will bring it into KO range of Ice Shard. If Mamoswine is brought in freely on Landorus, Landorus cannot stay in on Mamo and stay in the game. The trouble is, Mamo needs to be brought in freely, especially with a Naive nature. It cannot take a hit from Landorus as Earth Power and Focus Blast both easily KO, and Psychic will greatly reduce the amount of Life Orb hits Mamo has left to continue checking Landorus. Knock Off will cripple Mamo's capability to 2HKO other threats as well and will make Freeze Dry more or less useless.

This is not a check it's a revenge killer, as Mamoswine can't switch into anything other than Knock Off and even then it hates losing its Life Orb.

Same goes for Garchomp as a check to Kyu-B, which i noticed you have mentioned in your archive finncent1. Chomp is not a check at all to Kyu-B, as Kyu-B OHKOes with Ice Beam and usually spams Sub.

With that said, here is my contribution:

Mega Charizard Y (Check)

@ Charizardite Y

Ability: Drought
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Solarbeam
- Focus Blast
- Roost

With the given EVs, Charizard always avoids the 2HKO from Landorus's Psychic and OHKOes back with Fire Blast. The Speed EVs let Charizard outspeed Jolly Excadrill and anything slower. Pretty standard set, just with a bit more bulk to handle Landorus better, and as long as you have good anti-SR support and a fast-paced team, Zard Y will act as a pretty good check to Landorus.

 

[Sidnv]

This is not a check it's a revenge killer, as Mamoswine can't switch into anything other than Knock Off and even then it hates losing its Life Orb.

Same goes for Garchomp as a check to Kyu-B, which i noticed you have mentioned in your archive finncent1. Chomp is not a check at all to Kyu-B, as Kyu-B OHKOes with Ice Beam and usually spams Sub.

With that said, here is my contribution:

Mega Charizard Y (Check)

@ Charizardite Y

Ability: Drought
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Solarbeam
- Focus Blast
- Roost

With the given EVs, Charizard always avoids the 2HKO from Landorus's Psychic and OHKOes back with Fire Blast. The Speed EVs let Charizard outspeed Jolly Excadrill and anything slower. Pretty standard set, just with a bit more bulk to handle Landorus better, and as long as you have good anti-SR support and a fast-paced team, Zard Y will act as a pretty good check to Landorus.

I think the issue you have with Mamoswine being a check to Landorus is an issue with the definition given in the OP. There, it says that a Check is a Pokemon, which wins in a 1v1 matchup when given a free switch-in. Mamoswine definitely fits into this definition of a check. Although I tend to agree with you that Mamoswine fits the definition of a Revenge Killer much better than that of a Check.

Edit: I did not know that that the notion of a revenge killer was contained inside that of a check. I've been using the terms quite differently in my head.

 

[Inspirited]

This is not a check it's a revenge killer, as Mamoswine can't switch into anything other than Knock Off and even then it hates losing its Life Orb.

Same goes for Garchomp as a check to Kyu-B, which i noticed you have mentioned in your archive finncent1. Chomp is not a check at all to Kyu-B, as Kyu-B OHKOes with Ice Beam and usually spams Sub.

Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if, when Pokémon A is given a free switch into Pokémon B, Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.

The definition of check envelopes Revenge Killer as well. Check is a very broad term in that Scarf Zekrom is considered a check to Specs Ogre even though it gets OHKOed by Ice Beam and full power Water Spout. While standard Palkia can take one hit from Specs Ogre, it is still only considered a check because of its lack of recovery outside of Rest and Thunder's Paralysis chance. Mamo fits the definition of check here.

Edit: got ninjaed lol

 

[alexwolf]

I know the definition of a check, but it's pointless to use it with this meaning in this thread. If we mention revenge killers as checks too, then the whole thread loses its meaning, as we can just brainstorm with faster Pokemon able to OHKO the offensive threat in question, which is not hard at all really. The point of this thread should be finding good checks (aka ones that are actually able to switch into the Pokemon in question) and counters, not anything faster that can OHKO an offensive threat.

 

[Inspirited]

I know the definition of a check, but it's pointless to use it with this meaning in this thread. If we mention revenge killers as checks too, then the whole thread loses its meaning, as we can just brainstorm with faster Pokemon able to OHKO the offensive threat in question, which is not hard at all really. The point of this thread should be finding good checks (aka ones that are actually able to switch into the Pokemon in question) and counters, not anything faster that can OHKO an offensive threat.

The problem arises when there is a pokemon that can 2HKO the entire meta game with one moveset but has lackluster speed holding it down. This was the case with Life Orb Hydreigon in BW since nothing could theoretically switch into it, but it could be revenge killed fairly easily. This isn't the case with Landorus but an OP change like you suggested would make these pokemon unable to be victims.

Edit:

No. Even very strong wallbreakers can be checked by faster Pokemon, especially in 6th gen, they just can't all be countered. Even Hydreigon in 5th gen had a few faster checks, such as Scarf Jirachi and Scarf Tyranitar, and some slower ones, and some slow checks/countres, such as Jirachi and SpD Skarmory in rain. Not to mention that even if something lacks faster checks that can switch in, it still doesn't make any sense to mention revenge killers, we should just talk about slower checks and counters.[...]

A lot of these aren't switch ins at all as Scarf Rachi and Tyranitar get OHKOed by Fire Blast and Superpower respectively and Scarf Rachi only does slightly over half with Ice Punch. As far as the slower ones you mentioned, Jirachi needs to not have any hazards on its side of the field in order for it to even reliably check Hydreigon in rain because of Earthquake. SpD Skarmory gets owned by Fire Blast (even in rain) which makes it extremely unreliable even as a check. Chansey is the only true counter to LO Hydreigon there is but I would personally accept SpD Jirachi in rain so long as the "in rain" part of this doesn't cause too much controversy.

[...]Mentioning revenge killers is 100% pointless. All you have to do is look at the Pokemon's Speed stat and find something faster than can OHKO or that has priority to OHKO. Even the most inexperienced of battlers can figure this out, they don't need to see it in a thread. However, good checks and counters to popular metagame threats is what is worth talking about, and this should be the focus of this thread.

finncent1 remove any mentions of revenge killers from the archive and add an explanation in the OP talking about how we are not looking for revenge killers, but for checks that are able to switch into the Pokemon in question at least once, and of course counters.

So what would Hydreigon's Archive look like:
Counters: Chansey, ----, ----
Checks: Jirachi (in rain), ----, ----

This is rather silly for a Pokemon that is deceptively easy to beat, so perhaps creating a special case for if another Pokemon is introduced to the metagame and has the same pros and cons BW Hydreigon did. It would be an extremely proactive step, but it would help prevent conversation like this from cluttering threads like these in the future.

I agree with most of what you of what you said about revenge killers in this thread, but perhaps changing 100% to 95%-99% of all revenge killer posts are pointless would be better since it would incorporate special cases like these (not that there are any at the moment).

I will also nominate Sylveon in place of Manoswine:

Pokemon: Sylveon

Check vs Counter: Check

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
Bold nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Calm Mind

You think Dragons are the only beings scared of the bows and ribbons, this Landorus is also. Hyper Voice does over half to the genie and Earth Power will narrowly not 2HKO this spread. Sylveon can even Calm Mind to make Landorus's position worse and to guard itself against a Special Defense fall. 2 Calm Minds and Landorus is OHKOed, no questions asked making this a fairly effective check. Issues arise when Stealth Rock is on the field and Sylveon is forced to predictably protect in order to make sure its ability to check Landorus is guaranteed. Sylveon must also watch out for Sludge Wave variants as they muscle their way through easy.

 

[alexwolf]

The problem arises when there is a pokemon that can 2HKO the entire meta game with one moveset but has lackluster speed holding it down. This was the case with Life Orb Hydreigon in BW since nothing could theoretically switch into it, but it could be revenge killed fairly easily. This isn't the case with Landorus but an OP change like you suggested would make these pokemon unable to be victims.

No. Even very strong wallbreakers can be checked by faster Pokemon, especially in 6th gen, they just can't all be countered. Even Hydreigon in 5th gen had a few faster checks, such as Scarf Jirachi and Scarf Tyranitar, and some slower ones, and some slow checks/countres, such as Jirachi and SpD Skarmory in rain. Not to mention that even if something lacks faster checks that can switch in, it still doesn't make any sense to mention revenge killers, we should just talk about slower checks and counters.

Mentioning revenge killers is 100% pointless. All you have to do is look at the Pokemon's Speed stat and find something faster than can OHKO or that has priority to OHKO. Even the most inexperienced of battlers can figure this out, they don't need to see it in a thread. However, good checks and counters to popular metagame threats is what is worth talking about, and this should be the focus of this thread.

Aragorn the King remove any mentions of revenge killers from the archive and add an explanation in the OP talking about how we are not looking for revenge killers, but for checks that are able to switch into the Pokemon in question at least once, and of course counters.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Okay alexwolf, I updated steps three and four of the rules with information pertaining to revenge killers.

Also, just a question about one of your other comments: why should Garchomp be removed from Kyu-B's checks? Yes, it hates Substitute and Ice Beam, but it can switch in easily on Fusion Bolt and Earth Power, so shouldn't it be considered a check, which should be able to

switch into the Pokemon in question at least once

Of course, most of the time Kyu-B will be Substituting or Ice Beaming. But, against something that baits a Fusion Bolt, like Azumarill, that can OHKO back, it isn't worth not using Fusion Bolt, thus allowing Garchomp to be a somewhat risky check to Kyu-B. I'll gladly remove it, but I am a tad confused.

Also, thank you for all of the entries! The participation has been great, and there've been a lot of great checks/counters so far. Keep it up!

 

[Zebstrika]

Here's the check I use the most often.
Name: Thundurus-I

Thundurus can switch in on anything except Knock Off to outspeed and OHKO the next turn with HP-Ice. However, it is only a check and not a counter because in the worst case scenario, it takes Knock Off on the switch, loses its Life Orb and then only has an 81.3% chance to OHKO. If it fails to do so, it will die to a Psychic. However, if Thundurus is given a free switch-in, it always OHKO's with HP-Ice.

If Landorus-I uses Knock Off, it will take life orb damage and therefore HP Ice will still be a guaranteed OHKO.

 

[Sidnv]

If Landorus-I uses Knock Off, it will take life orb damage and therefore HP Ice will still be a guaranteed OHKO.

I didn't take that into account. Thundurus is a counter and I'll change that on my post. Thanks.

 

[TheEnder]

I didn't take that into account. Thundurus is a counter and I'll change that on my post. Thanks.

It is still a check, or more of a revenge killer, becuase Landorus-I can switch out and when it comes in the second time Thundurus wont be able to take a hit (except coming in on EP).

Will do a write-up on SDef Zapdos, so reserving this post for that :)

 

[Sidnv]

It is still a check, or more of a revenge killer, becuase Landorus-I can switch out and when it comes in the second time Thundurus wont be able to take a hit (except coming in on EP).

Will do a write-up on SDef Zapdos, so reserving this post for that :)

But Landorus can switch out on any of its counters. It's not like there's a trapper which can force Landorus to stay in and kill it.

 

[TheEnder]

But Landorus can switch out on any of its counters. It's not like there's a trapper which can force Landorus to stay in and kill it.

But a counter can heal and come in multiple times during a game, which is the definiton of a counter :)