Project VGC 2016 Viability Rankings v2 - WORLDS EDITION

[Jibaku]

The old thread was pretty much dead, but I'm in the mood to create a new one. At least until I inevitably have tons of stuff to do and won't be able to update it often. But for the time being, I think we can get a more up-to-date version. There's some subjectivity in this one at the moment, but feel free to chime in!

Also I wouldn't mind a mod taking over this one - I just wanted a more up to date version.

Note that I won't be covering all techmons in here (i.e Gyarados, Lapras). I'm also not doing a C rank because at that point it gets really difficult and very team specific. The bottom of B- rank is already sketchy as it is. However, being unranked here does not necessarily mean the Pokemon you're using is unviable - it just needs a really good reason to be on a team.


S Rank

Reserved for the top threats in the VGC 2016 metagame. These Pokemon are the primary definers of the VGC 2016 metagame. These are the Pokemon you want to be building your team around as they are the most likely Pokemon to take over games when properly supported. Pokemon in S-Rank either have a well-rounded set of positive traits, allowing them to perform many roles to tremendous effect, or a few focused set of amazing traits that demand complete and utter respect. Support Pokemon in this rank, if any, can easily create free turns for its partners while being extremely difficult for its opponents to exploit.

Primal Groudon

Primal Kyogre

Xerneas

A Rank

Reserved for Pokemon that function very well within the current VGC16 metagame. The Pokemon in this tier are either able to perform multiple roles to great effect, or execute one extremely well. Support Pokemon in this tier can create free turns, but not as easily as those in the S Rank. The flaws that the Pokemon in this tier may have are usually mitigated by their positive traits, or with minimal team support.

A+ Rank

Smeargle

Mega Kangaskhan

Mega Salamence

Mega Rayquaza

A Rank

Bronzong

Cresselia

Thundurus

Mega Gengar

Rayquaza

A- Rank

Yveltal

Talonflame

Amoonguss

Crobat

B Rank

Reserved for Pokemon that fit well in the VGC16 metagame, but they have notable flaws that prevent them from filling their role to the fullest extent. The Pokemon in this tier are not very splashable and can only fit into rather specific teams. The Pokemon in this tier are either predictable, require some team support to work to its full potential, or are at disadvantageous match-ups against some common threats. The flaws that the Pokemon in this tier have are mostly mitigated by their positive traits.

B+ Rank

Weavile

Dialga

Whimsicott

Zapdos

Raichu

Hitmontop
Scrafty
Mega Manectric

Landorus-T

Ferrothorn

Togekiss

Kyurem-White

Suicune

B Rank

Mega Venusaur

Palkia

Mega Mawile

Gengar

Meowstic-M

Infernape

Clefairy

Scizor

Sableye

Kyogre

Mewtwo

B- Rank

Ho-Oh

Aegislash

Liepard

Mienshao

Arcanine

Jumpluff

Terrakion

Slowbro

Azumarill

Giratina-O

Exeggutor

 

[emma]

Yay new vrankings :D

Mega Rayquaza: Tier A+ to S

Mega Rayquaza was a dominate force in the meta this year. 10/24 or about 42% of teams at Top Cut at Worlds this year featured Mega Rayquaza as one of their two restricted pokemon. Other S tier threats such as, Primal Groudon (15/24 or about 63%), Primal Kyogre (9/24 or about 38%), and Xerneas (13/24 or about 54%) all had very similar results. Factoring that in that Rayquaza won the tournament, had a Top 4 Finish, and two Top 8 finishes, (a combined 3 in Top 8, Xerneas had 4, Groudon had 3, and Kyogre had 4) we can safely say Rayquaza was a huge factor at Worlds.

Aside from worlds, Mega Rayquaza also did well at other tournaments. Although it only had 3 uses in Top Cut at US Nationals, it was very close to Kyogre's usage (4) and had more than any other restricted mega beside the ones in S Tier. Rayquaza also won Italy, Mexico, Japan, and Colombia Nationals.

Mega Rayquaza consistently top cut events, won four different Nationals and Worlds, and was a huge part of these teams success.

Mega Rayquaza to S :D

 

[Psynergy]

I might be the most Rayquaza-obsessed VGC player out there (refuses to use Big 6 solely because it lacks Rayquaza) but I'm actually a little conflicted with the idea of moving Mega Rayquaza to S.

On one hand yeah, it's had amazing results for awhile now, and it's more apparent that using Kyogre is not at all necessary when using Rayquaza on a good team since both X-Ray and RayDon have had legitimate success. A big reason (arguably the biggest reason) it isn't seen more, is because it takes both a restricted slot and uses a Mega slot. I'd say that point has been shown to be less of a downside recently though, as many more Rayquaza teams are making just as much use of regular Rayquaza's utility as an additive to what Mega Rayquaza does for you, making it easier to run even two other Megas alongside it. As a whole, Rayquaza is almost just as prominent as a restricted slot as Groudon/Kyogre/Xerneas at this point, and a big reason for that is that people have realized Mega Rayquaza gives you a ton flexibility. It has one of the best movepools among the restricted legendaries despite lacking a STAB spread move (free 80 BP Twister), and more use of SD and AV variants makes solid use of that movepool so it's anything but the one-dimensional Pokemon people thought it was earlier on in the season.

That being said the issue of taking up a Mega slot and a restricted slot at once is still a thing, can't really dismiss that issue when compared to other Megas even if it's not really a huge negative. The lack of STAB spread move higher than 40 Base power is also something that brings it down a bit when compared to the current S ranks, though that's not to say that a mon lacking STAB spread moves can't be S rank. Another point is that RayDon and X-Ray aren't really metagame defining in the same way XernDon, RayOgre and Dual Primal have been; RayDon in particular is an archetype I know a lot of people still don't like at all and X-Ray has its share of issues that can be tricky to cover (Bronzong), so Mega Rayquaza is far from perfect in this format.

With all that said, I would actually go so far to argue that Mega Rayquaza is the best Mega in the format, restricted slot Mega issue aside. It's just way stronger than Salamence (-SpA Mega Ray still has more Special Attack than standard Mence) while actually having resistances unlike Kangaskhan, and has more customizability than either one thanks to its movepool and item choice. But that's a contentious point I don't want to get into much further, the point is I do think that if anything in A+ can be justified for S, it's Mega Rayquaza. Whether it really should be I'm not sure. Rayquaza's presence has definitely being much greater recently and it's always been an amazing restricted pick so I think S rank is justified, but I don't think it's too out of place in A+ either. Free S-

 

[Pyritie]

what the fuck does exeggutor do?

also nomming jumpluff to B- because chlorophyll encore and sleep powder

 

[Charlotte]

what the fuck does exeggutor do?

Chlorophyll Sleep Powder and Gravity. Also gets Crobat with Psychic. It's semi-decent Groudon support.

 

[Jibaku]

Exeggutor = chloro sleep powder + gravity + fast Psychic to take down Gengars and Crobats.

Added Jumpluff

@MRay I think MRay is super strong but at the same time I feel like it's not quite on the level of the S ranked mons. Rarely do you ever see Rayquaza centric teams, whereas Groudon/Kyogre/Xern all have setups dedicated to their success. Rayquaza on the other hand is often seen as a support (bit less so on RayDon, though). It's a pretty strong support and deals a devastating amount of damage, but it doesn't quite take over games in the same way those 3 do and still has a huge opportunity cost attached to it. It's also rather limited to single target damage while the other 3 can use very powerful spread moves.

In any case, the A+ rank is very close to each other, and also aren't that far off S. I don't think the ordering in A+ itself matters much at all, though I think Mence/Kang/Smeargle have slightly greater impact (if not, then they're at least more splashable).

MRay does have fairly strong matchups against primals and is a good revenge killer, though.

 

[Celestavian]

I'll nominate Suicune for B+.

A pretty good speed control Pokemon for Tailwind modes with the ability to OHKO Primal Groudon and Mega Salamence with enough investment. Very bulky, with other support options like Snarl, Icy Wind, and Roar. Works as a pretty good check to both primals as well as Xerneas if you're running Roar, but struggles to do damage to anything not hit super-effectively and doesn't have the greatest support movepool. Even so, I think B+ is a good place for it.

 

[Serapis]

And I was just going to update my viability rankings today. . . the first day I've actually been home in over two months. . .

Well, as I'm getting back into Smogon, not having to worry about viability rankings will help me focus on other things, so w/e.

Anyhow, time to make some nominations:

Yveltal seem's a bit too high (move to regular B, maybe)
As one of about 5 people who brought Yveltal to Worlds, I know a decent bit about Bacon bird. To be entirely honest, I believe it's an amazing Pokemon, and that it has the potential to grant teams that it's on positive to neutral matchups versus literally every other team in the format, including Xerneas centric teams. So, why do I think it should be moved down? Well, for two reasons. The first is that it's difficult to build around. There's the typical YvelDon archetype with Special Groudon, but with RayOgre stronger than ever now, I'm not thinking that special Don will be particularly effective. XY's actually a really interesting archetype that I haven't explored at all (get past Gengar's W-o-W and you eat Wolfe team alive with it), but even assuming XY's viable, nobody knows what to do with it at this point. That brings me to my second point, Yveltal is weird to play with. As compared to the Primals and Xerneas, Yveltal can't just go for strong spread moves or setup into strong spread moves. It's slightly more similar to Rayquaza in that it has incredibly strong single target moves, but it's lower speed really does make a difference in a format where Mega-Kang is still a defining force, and you don't even have a chance to speed tie when facing down opposing Mega-Ray. Using Yveltal is all about identifying what it needs to do, having it accomplish that job, and then getting Yveltal KOed as quickly as possible for the free switch (the way I play anyhow). Sure, you can Yveltal sweep, but that simply won't hold up versus skilled players. I mean, what does everybody else think about this?

Excuse me, but is Palkia in the same rank as Dialga? (Palkia to B-, honestly, B if you want to be generous)
To begin, yes, Palkia and Dialga do basically the same thing, but there are some crucial differences. Dialga isn't actually weak to Fairy type or Dragon type, which is huge in this meta, and it has a better general matchup vs RayOgre (with Wolfe variant, Gengar can only W-o-W, and non Draco Ray can't hit you even neutrally). Sure, WolfeRayOgre has Top, but really it's better than Palkia's greater susceptibility to everything else. And, keep in mind, that's supposed to be it's good matchup. Versus, say, Dual Primals, both of them honestly suffer. Sure, they can take hits from Kyogre (though Kyogre still deals stupid damage through the resistances) but neither of them really likes Groudon. Palkia isn't actually weak to PBlades, but it still gets 2HKOed by it, unless you decide to run a Kyogre EV spread on a Palkia (Kyogre and Palkia share the same HP and Defense, so you can make PBlades a 3HKO), but then you've entered an awkward world where your offensive TR setter is not really getting the damage you want. Well, you say, what if you're not looking for an offensive TR setter? The answer is that Dialga is still better. Let's say you're simply looking for a tech pick vs RayOgre. Dialga does it better. How about a surprise scarf Restricted? Dialga still does it better. Alright, maybe an AV set to wall chunks of the meta? Dialga. Something that just looks really cool? Dialga. lol. In seriousness though, I do not believe Palkia to be viable at all. I might even drop it from the rankings entirely.

Drop Terrakion
Terrakion is bad. Really bad. It loses to Primals and Xerneas, which will probably be on every team. It doesn't like Intimidate, which is around a decent bit in this meta, and with Water type + Ray being a thing (say, Suicune) it faces more threats than at the start of the meta where it still wan't a thing because it was bad. Plus, people are using Top and Scrafty now, and other Fairy types like Sylveon. . . the meta has never really been worse for it. Without Beat Up support, it simply doesn't deal enough damage and gets KOed to easily. With Beat Up support, it still gets KOed to easily, and needs a Life Orb to really deal the type of damage it wants to, plus you have to dedicate a moveslot on your team to Beat Up (on something faster than Terrak, basically forcing you to use Whimsicott or maybe Weavile [let's hear it for Beat Up Ambipom guys!]) which is restrictive, and even that's utterly susceptible to Follow Me Smeargle or Clefairy or Amoonguss. Terrakion is simply a Pokemon with zero potential to every make it through Top Cut at an event. Even if you get a single favorable matchup in Top 16 with it, you won't be as luck in Top 8 or 4. The only way it'd work is if you never actually brought it to games and it was only on the team for a single, specific matchup, but even then there's probably a better tech against any single given team than Terrakion, which fully invalidates it.

Azumarill. . .
I'm not actually noming that we do anything with Azumarill, but I'm bringing it up because I feel we could use some discussion on this. I though of Azu way back in the early meta (like January) for it's synergy on a KyogreXerneas team, and now with RayOgre being more prevalent, it can fit there too. My issue is that it's suffered too much from power creep; comparatively, it no longer hits as hard, and it no longer takes hits as well. If you want to try to pull off a Belly Drum set, you have to use the Sitrus Berry, which you might very well want somewhere else, and you also have to acknowledge that in a format with Geomancy Xerneas and Swords Dance Groudon and Ray, you have chosen to try to support an Azumarill sweep for some reason. Band seems interesting, but not terribly easy to use or even effective in a Best of 3, while thinks like Life Orb are just weird. Now, I haven't actually tested Azumarill myself (paging Nails) so I'm not going to condemn it, but I do feel that it shouldn't be on the rankings. If we could get second/third opinions on this, that would be cool.

 

[Jibaku]

Yveltal:

RayOgre rising in usage is actually a reason to keep Yveltal up. I feel that Yveltal is one of the tougher matchups for Wolfe's team (especially when paired with Scarf Smeargle). Actually probably tougher than Dialga because Dialga doesn't do much damage and gets worn down easily, whereas Yveltal can nuke several Pokemon. Special Groudon may not be good against Rayogre (though it can HP Ice the Ray), but other forms of Groudon aren't so great either barring teams who dedicate themselves to setting it up (and Hitmontop can still WG the PBlades). Yveltal still has the issue of being a bit read heavy, but its presence is still pretty overwhelming against some of the bulkier teams in he format. Additionally, I can't find anything that's actually better than it that's currently below its placement.

Dialga:

Dialga not being Fairy-weak is largely inconsequential because it gets dumpstered by Xerneas anyways (at least Palkia can nuke it with rain Hydro Pump), while Dragon moves are relatively rare. Again, I don't feel that Dialga is super great against Wolfe's team because its damage output is disappointing and gets worn down easily, though it's not a bad pick if you're looking for viable pieces to have a positive matchup. I think Dialga is better, but not by much even though it does have a clearer niche. Palkia's base 100 speed and strong coverage still puts it into viability contention, and I feel that TR is the wrong way to make Palkia work. Palkia might drop to B, but no lower than Mawile (in my opinion anyways, i'll let others speak up).

Might expand on this later but I don't have too much time rn.

Terrakion:

Last thing I want to do is underestimate how much Terracott can pressure defensive teams (helps that most defensive teams don't carry redirection, save Amoonguss who can't redirect Whimsicott and gets bopped by +4 LO CC). It also checks Kang/Yveltal/Thund (lum perhaps) which is half of most Yveltal teams and I think it's something that certain teams can appreciate. But really, Terracott can be a bit difficult to prepare for with how most teams are built nowadays, despite its flaws. I think B- still does it justice to show that it exists and shouldn't be taken lightly.

Fun fact: Terrakion is top 4 in Seniors.

Azumarill:

Ask Nails for more info but Azu's been a powerhouse on his team as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Nails]

Azumarill. . .
I'm not actually noming that we do anything with Azumarill, but I'm bringing it up because I feel we could use some discussion on this. I though of Azu way back in the early meta (like January) for it's synergy on a KyogreXerneas team, and now with RayOgre being more prevalent, it can fit there too. My issue is that it's suffered too much from power creep; comparatively, it no longer hits as hard, and it no longer takes hits as well. If you want to try to pull off a Belly Drum set, you have to use the Sitrus Berry, which you might very well want somewhere else, and you also have to acknowledge that in a format with Geomancy Xerneas and Swords Dance Groudon and Ray, you have chosen to try to support an Azumarill sweep for some reason. Band seems interesting, but not terribly easy to use or even effective in a Best of 3, while thinks like Life Orb are just weird. Now, I haven't actually tested Azumarill myself (paging Nails) so I'm not going to condemn it, but I do feel that it shouldn't be on the rankings. If we could get second/third opinions on this, that would be cool.

Azu is an attacker, it doesn't have time to set up in this format but it has very strong coverage, pressures enemy Groudon with Aqua Jet (bypassing skill swap regardless of speed stats) and pressuring most other important mons in the meta with Play Rough and a coverage move. It's bulky enough to live a hit from pretty much anything (it tanks sash dragon ascent, max atk double edge from your favorite mega (kang is a roll that is very in your favor), +2 gleam, and is strong enough to actually trade damage back relatively evenly.

252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 220 HP / 20 Def Azumarill: 153-180 (75.3 - 88.6%)

252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Fairy Aura Xerneas: 172-203 (85.1 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 140 Def Fairy Aura Xerneas: 148-175 (63.5 - 75.1%)

+2 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 220 HP / 12 SpD Azumarill: 160-190 (78.8 - 93.5%)

252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 177-208 (97.7 - 114.9%)

252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon: 146-177 (70.5 - 85.5%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon in Heavy Rain: 218-265 (105.3 - 128%)

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 220 HP / 20 Def Azumarill: 126-148 (62 - 72.9%)

4+ SpA Primal Kyogre Thunder vs. 220 HP / 12 SpD Azumarill: 180-212 (88.6 - 104.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Primal Kyogre: 105-125 (50.7 - 60.3%)

252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 244 HP / 188 Def Fairy Aura Cresselia: 121-144 (53.5 - 63.7%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 244 HP / 188 Def Cresselia: 91-109 (40.2 - 48.2%)

It trades damage with restricted mons pretty damn well, while not taking up a mega or an uber slot. Is it meta breaking? No, not at all. But "Non-uber, non-mega, no setup required versatile tanky damage dealer" is a role that barely exists in VGC 16 and it's definitely viable. You can't ignore an Azu spamming Life Orb Huge Power Play Roughs into your team. I feel B- is a very fair place for it.

 

[megagen10]

I'd put hitmontop at an A minus, due to its success at worlds


Also, even though eggy was on Platypus' team, I don't believe it is good enough for B minus, its literally a slower jumpluff with offensive output.

 

[Jibaku]

Eggy being on the list had nothing to do with it being on David's team js. From testing I think it was a pretty respectable threat, but like I said the bottom of B- is fairly sketchy atm and I might just move a bunch of techmons into its own section

Hitmontop may move up, Weavile may move down.

 

[megagen10]

I don't think just because Hitmontop won worlds does that mean it deserves to move up. If we take a look at the VGC 2014 Viability Rankings (yes I dug this up) we see Pachirisu, World Champion, all the way down in D-Rank. Hitmontop was a non-factor until Worlds (but it do extremely well) but I don't think just a great worlds warrants a rise.

Hitmontop has been consistent on many different archetypes tho

 

[megagen10]

If we look at all the 2016 Nationals Top Cut Teams we see Hitmontop used a mere three times. 19th in the UK, 2nd in Italy, and 18th at US. Mons such as Togekiss and Landorus-T, who are in the same rank as Hitmontop, cut more nationals.

Ok, but the metagame evolved from July to August

 

[megagen10]

No,

How? All you did in your post was "it did well at worlds" which isn't a valid reason

I said the metagame evolves over the course of a month, hitmontop can be extremely good and provides good support

 

[megagen10]

In your original post, you stated Hitmontop should move up because it did well at worlds. I don't think it's a valid reason. By that same logic, Pachirisu shouldn't be D Rank in 14 and Raichu and Mega Rayquaza should also move up. You said it can be extremely good, but you didn't state how exactly. If you did, I would be happy to potentially agree :)

well Pachirisu was ran on 1 team, Hitmontop was on 3/4 top 4 and, 4 top 8 iirc

 

[megagen10]

That is correct, but you didn't answer my question :[
and hitmontop came in 1st, 3rd, 4th, on one Top 8

by saying 4 top 8, I included the 3 in the top 4....

 

[ProjectTitan313]

I know I skipped this year and all but I'm legitimately curious on Mega Venusaur. How does it even remotely function with Rayquaza, Mence, Talonflame, and Crobat everywhere?
And what sets were these Hitmontop running, if there's any info?

 

[SecretT]

I know I skipped this year and all but I'm legitimately curious on Mega Venusaur. How does it even remotely function with Rayquaza, Mence, Talonflame, and Crobat everywhere?
And what sets were these Hitmontop running, if there's any info?

Hitmontop is being used as a support, running Intimidate, Wide Guard, Fake Out, Feint and Close Combat. Eject Button is the preferred item.

http://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/worlds/2016/teams/masters/

 

[Psynergy]

Honestly not a big fan of Mega Venusaur, but the advantages of using it come in the form of its defensive typing and ability. It tanks hits from Kyogre and Xerneas while not dying immediately to a Fire-type move from Groudon, and can threaten stuff with Sleep Powder in the sun before it Mega Evolves while hitting all of the aforementioned mons with Grass Knot and Sludge Bomb. The awful matchup against Mega Salamence and an even worse matchup against Rayquaza are definitely a thing, though Talonflame isn't quite as popular as it was early-season and Crobat usually won't run Brave Bird, so many teams usually only have one Flying-type to mess with Mega Venusaur. As is often the case in this format though, you'll usually have a second Mega besides Venusaur, since it does have significant matchup issues and lacks offensive presence that other Megas provide.

Maybe I'm a little biased though, but is it necessarily a B+ mon, as opposed to just B? I know B rank is already treading into iffy territory since a lot of stuff down there is more team-specific and significantly less common than S/A rank stuff, but it feels even more team-specific than most of the B+ mons. I know it has its strengths as a tanky support Mega that can sort of deal with all the S rank mons to an extent, but I'm not super convinced it's actually that good.

 

[ProjectTitan313]

Hitmontop is being used as a support, running Intimidate, Wide Guard, Fake Out, Feint and Close Combat. Eject Button is the preferred item.

http://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/worlds/2016/teams/masters/

And Adamant across the board... but it does require it with the tragic loss of Fighting Gem:
252+ Atk Hitmontop Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 182-216 (100.5 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Interesting to see so much Feint though, it was not particularly common last year and in current BSD. More reason than ever to run Wide guard with the Primals, I guess.

 

[Jibaku]

Updates:

Palkia moved down to upper B from B+
Venusaur moved down to upper B from B+
Suicune moved up to bottom B+ from B
Swapped Crobat and Amoonguss's positions
Weavile moved down to upper B+ from A-

Venusaur was actually pretty solid when groudon/xerneas was everywhere (esp BigC/BigB variants), despite Sleep Powder's accuracy being the most frustrating thing on earth. Bit more difficult to use now with the rise of RayOgre and friends, though.

Mawile may move up, but I still think it's pretty mediocre.

 

[megagen10]

Hitmontop is being used as a support, running Intimidate, Wide Guard, Fake Out, Feint and Close Combat. Eject Button is the preferred item.

http://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/worlds/2016/teams/masters/

Mega Venusaur was ran on Enosh, and Trista Medians team. It was also used to get top 12 at nats by Gary Qian and Bjorn Johnsson iirc

 

[vicariouscheese]

Mega Venusaur was ran on Enosh, and Trista Medians team. It was also used to get top 12 at nats by Gary Qian and Bjorn Johnsson iirc

Does anyone have the full build for Trista's team? I'm messing around with a similar team, but would like to see what actually good players are doing with it.

 

[mimi]

I'm gonna mini mod the shit out of this because it pissed me off greatly while reading, don't make shitty posts. "it was on so and so's team so move it up". Just because a certain person used a Pokemon to great success on 1 specific team doesn't mean the Pokemon has to shoot up in the viability rankings. The average player is not a person who's top cutting worlds. The average person will not be able to make just any Pokemon work. If you're posting to nominate something, please do so with actually reasoning. Give calcs, give circumstances, give a reason, not just so and so used it.

I'n terms of an actual post I agree with Mega Rayquazas current placement. However strong it may or may not be, I still feel like it's not as dominant as the Pokemon in S tier. Rayquaza has many things going for it, but Kyogre and Groudon are just way too dominant and on another scale compared to Ray. Although I feel Rayquaza is still very unexplored. Everyone runs the same typical things, when it has untapped potential with it's moves. It deserves to be A+ until something truly breaks the meta with it and I feel like that hasn't, and won't happen.