The Top 10 Titans of the 5th Gen NU Metagame [General Discussion]

Punchshroom

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I beg to differ. I don't think Mandibuzz is the best switch into Golurk, because it takes huge damage from CB Ice Punch, and because of this, it can't really do this once it has been weakened slightly, nor can it do so multiple times. I would say the best switch into Golurk is Weezing, who can tank several hits from it and react with a combo of Will-O-Wisp, Pain Split and Fire Blast.
Okay, so there are better switch-ins to Golurk, but Mandibuzz is still in a league of her own compared to the rest of them. Bar offensive Tangela (who needs hefty speed investment and Leaf Storm), no other pokemon in NU can switch into Golurk, has instant recovery and can both outspeed & OHKO Golurk. Sure Golurk could try to predict Roost and go for EQ/Fighting move, but Mandibuzz is still calling the shots with her better speed and Foul Play.
 

Shuckleking87

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What effect did [Pokemon] have on the metagame?

Cinccino had the power to 2HKO the entire tier barring misdreavus, bastiodon and random steel types (if only metang was popular…), as even Regirock, Amoonguss and Musharna, the premier defensive walls, were 2HKO by bullet seed or tail slap. Also, Golem and other sturdy leads had to face the trouble of a bullet seed that would prevent rocks. Substitute users were also very unreliable, as Cinccino could easily break through and provide additional damage.

In what main roles was [Pokemon] used?

It was overall such a good poke and very easy to fit on a team. With life orb and high base power attacks, it could sweep weakened teams once the scarfer was gone ( as not many pokes were faster without it). It could be used as a momentum getter, as people could easily bring in a reliable counter (misdreavus), and cinccino could switch into a dark type. Though scarf and band were not overly popular, scarf was guaranteed the fastest poke on a team while still having really strong attacks, while choice band (arguably the best set) could give even stronger attacks without taking damage (because cinccino was frail as twig).
What caused it to have a significant impact?

The fact really no poke could reliably switch into cinccino. Sure, pokes could beat it 1v1, like gurdurr, or regirock, but they are not going to appreciate taking two tail slaps or bullet seed (if they even could take them). The poke was fairly predictable, yet still very difficult to stop.
How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in NU?

Misdreavus obviously did not really mind cinccino at all, as will-o-wisp + pain spilt was not a problem at all. But more importantly, cinccino was the only reason why rocky helmet was a viable item consideration. With life orb, stealth rocks, and 5 tail slaps to an Ammonguss or Regirock would result in a dead cinccino thanks to rocky helmet from dealing 1/6 HP for every hit (5/6 hp total). Both of these pokes ( I guess miltank and alomomola as well) had semi reliable recovery outside of leftovers, so they could afford not recovering hp at the expense of taking out cinccino. However, this move only affected tail slap and u-turn, so it could still do decent damage to regirock and alomomola. Sap sipper became a more popular ability as well, as one could play mind games with cinccino before letting a miltank or choice scarf sawsbuck gain a free attack boost. Priority was another easy way to take out cinccino, as stuff like mach punch from Gurdurr, sucker punch by Absol, aqua jet by Samurott, quick attack from Swellow and Zangoose, and fake out by Kangaskan all did massive damage. Though spikes were not that common back then, just generally predicting right and letting cinccino take recoil and life orb damage was the best way for some teams to handle cinccino- it was really that good.

With strong base power moves, u-turn and being one of the fastest pokes in the game without a choice scarf, cinccino was a monster. It was the single reason why rocky helmet became a viable option for a defensive wall over leftovers, because having the item essentially killed cinccino. Though priority was an easy way to eliminate it, it was a great late game sweeper and momentum grabber that took #1 in the usage stats and should be one of the top titans of NU.
 
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Nominating Absol




  • What kind of effect did this Pokemon have during its time in the 5th Gen NU Metagame?
Absol possesses the strongest priority attack outside of Ubers in it's STAB sucker punch, as well as Pursuit, Nigth Slash, and coverage options like Superpower, Megahorn, and Psycho Cut. Absol alone made frail ghosts and Psychics a liability to be used, as a pokemon (lets use Haunter) had 2 options: Switch and most likely die, or stay in and still take a giant chunk of your health, and probably die. Even frail sweepers such as Cinccino were OKHOed by a powerful sucker punch. Absol was slow, but priority made up for that. Because of it, Fast Fighters like Emboar and Sawk that could comfortably take a Punch from him and OHKO rose.

  • What were its main roles when it was/is used?
Absol had 2 main sets: a swords dance set, and an all out attacker set (and a scarf set too i guess). The swords dance set was the most threatening, but Absol did suffer from 4MSS, but it did obtain perfect coverage anyways. 4 attacks was more dangerous from the start, but it had more counters as Absol couldnt boost its attack. It was mainly used as a trapper, Sweeper, and a cleaner with Sucker Punch.
  • What caused it to have such a significant impact? (Think Movesets, abilities, base stats, etc)
Absol has the strongest Priority IN THE GAME. Frail choice users such as Haunter and Mesprit that couldnt take a Sucker Punch were hard pressed to beat Absol. It's abilities, Pressure and Super Luck, arnet that great, but Super Luck with it's high crit moves is fun with hax. The rest of his stats are low, but when you ware that strong thats ok.
  • How would you deal with this Pokemon when you are team building/battling it? (checks, counters, etc)
Strong fighting types like Emboar (who moved up the same time as absol) were the best ways to deal with Absol. Pokemon that can play mind games with Absol and have to cause massive prediction with either using a status move to make Sucker Punch fail, or Attack and kill absol, also were good. Some scarfers, but they had to be able to take a powerful sucker Punch. Faster Priority was a big one (Linoone is an example) can punch through Absols low defenses.
 
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I'm just going to let whatever mons in for the nominations, unless they're absolutely ridiculous and can't be argued. So Alomomola and Charizard will be accepted as nominations if anyone wants to take Charizard back up. They just probably won't be voted for much, so won't get a placing.
 
Edited in Sawk - didnt do Braviary because I dont think its worthy for top ten at all (im not even sure if sawk is either)

HINTS FOR PEOPLE TO DO OTHER MONS: SMEARGLE, KLINKLANG, SLOWKING, MAGMORTAR, SABLEYE, DRUDDIGON, GOTHITELLE

while these mons are obv good, remember to recognize that the impact the mons had on the meta is important to their position in the top ten =)
 
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Um Alomomola has been a solid wall and I thought it deserved at least a mention :/ There is more to Pokemon than offense lol
 
So far I should to say Gothitelle or Snover in terms to potential / brokeness.

By the way, about the NU story I should to choose Jynx like one of the titans in the NU metagame from the beginning until now.

SURVIVED.
 

tennisace

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reserving magmortar, will write tomorrow

sableye was never nu @Annoyer

edit: druddigon was significantly less good in bw1, and it hung around in low ru until bw2. slowking was obv very good, but it was only NU for stage 0, so it didnt really have a massive impact.
 
i've (finally) edited in emboar if anyone wants to see it (its on the previous page)

may reserve something else but idk because i can't think of anything
 

tennisace

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Actually if I remember correctly Sableye was NU for like a month before RU quickly banned it (and then it went UU anyways lol)
Prankster Sableye was first available from the Spooky Manor Dream World area on September 28th, 2011.

If you check Oglemi's General NU metagame thread (which is the start of Stage 0 amd was posted on October 5th, 2011), then you can see Sableye is listed under BL2. It may have been playable without Prankster in the really ancient unofficial metagame, but it was never allowed in NU with Prankster, nor was it allowed in Stage 0 at all.
 
Actually I can't do this rn
Someone else do Samurott pls. or not if u dont want to w/e

 
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soulgazer

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Strong fighting types like Emboar (who was banned the same time as absol) were the best ways to deal with Absol. Pokemon that can play mind games with Absol and have to cause massive prediction with either using a status move to make Sucker Punch fail, or Attack and kill absol, also were good. Some scarfers, but they had to be able to take a powerful sucker Punch. Faster Priority was a big one (Linoone is an example) can punch through Absols low defenses.
They weren't banned, Cincinno, Emboar, Absol, and Amoongus went to RU by usage, though it was (sadly) manipulated by some people spamming them on the RU ladder with random moves & items (Example: the most used item for Emboar was a Sticky Barb in RU the month before it went up).
 

tennisace

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Magmortar


What effect did Magmortar have on the metagame?

It's more powerful than Charizard, has the best coverage move a Fire-type could really ask for (Thunderbolt), and could run 4 different items effectively (Specs, Scarf, Expert Belt, and Life Orb). Magmortar was probably the hardest Pokemon to switch in on in NU history without already knowing what item + Hidden Power it was running. Once you knew the set, it was fairly easy to revenge or deal with, but before then it was extremely good. Magmortar did well vs bulkier teams that relied on switching, especially because aside from stage 0 there weren't any good Spikes setters that could hinder Magmortar switching in and out (though it is SR weak).

In what main roles was Magmortar used?

Magmortar was one of the premier special attackers and the best Fire-type during its time in NU. It had enough speed to run a competent scarf set (outsped by Sawk and Rotom-S but faster than Braviary and co), was powerful enough to wreck defensive cores with Life Orb or Specs, and could run a good lure set with Expert Belt and the Hidden Power of your choice (usually Grass for Quagsire, sometimes Water in Stage 0 for Camerupt/other Magmortar). Heck, Mach Punch could even 2hko Absol with no investment and a neutral nature, while avoiding Sucker Punch. If I had to compare Magmortar to a Pokemon that's in today's NU, I guess I would call it Charizard on steroids that didn't take 50% damage from SR. Base 80 was the speed tier to hit in the earlier stages of NU, and Magmortar outsped them all, like Charizard does to base 95.

What caused Magmortar to have a significant impact?

I've said it before in places, but let's recap: Highest Special Attack in the tier (Glaceon was PU), high base power STAB, excellent coverage (Fire Blast, Thunderbolt, Focus Blast, and HP Grass was essentially perfect), handy but not overpowering speed (Base 83 was more than usable at the time), usable special bulk for a sweeper (75 hp / 95 spdef is pretty good for NU standards). In Stage 0, Magmortar's "counters" were Slowking, Lanturn, and Quagsire mainly. After Stage 0, that list dropped down to: Quagsire, Thick Fat Miltank, and Altaria (I suppose you could call Regirock a check but Focus Blast took huge chunks out of it). Decent, but definitely able to be taken advantage of by teammates.

How do/did you deal with Magmortar in NU?

Pray you didn't get hit by a crit Thunderbolt/HP Grass when bringing in your Water-type? I mean like I said there were checks, but Altaria is really the only mon that could switch into every move standard Magmortar had. Really, the easiest way to deal with it was by revenge killing. It was pretty frail on the physical side, and if you could get down SR you could keep both Magmortar and Cryogonal/Armaldo (the main spinners) at bay. In addition, Absol was around at the time, and Sucker Punch hurt a lot. In the later stages that Magmortar was around, Samurott started coming into play, and Aqua Jet did a ton of damage to it. The metagame was extremely offensive, as you can imagine.

All in all, Magmortar is definitely worthy of a top 10 (or hell I'd even say top 5) place on this list.
 

jake

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okkk i wanted to do smeargle as it is my baby but it really isn't a _titan_ of nu, considering it wasn't really much more than above average in the one round it lasted. i definitely think that samurott is, so i'm going to steal las's nom and do a writeup on it kthx. will edit in shortly

Samurott



What effect did Samurott have on the metagame?

Ever since being really "discovered" a couple of months into NU's existence, Samurott has been a consistently dangerous threat that every team in every NU metagame needs to be prepared for. No matter which point of NU's history you pick out, Samurott has always been one of the most threatening and versatile weapons to have on your side (and one of the most important Pokemon to keep in mind when you're teambuilding). Though the usage stats don't necessarily show complete dominance over the metagame, there's no doubt that Samurott is far and away among the scariest threats in NU.​

In what main roles was Samurott used?

Samurott was initially used as the tier's premier physical Water-type. Swords Dance primed Samurott for a quick sweep after you weakened its few checks, and Megahorn gave it a superb coverage move. Not many other Pokemon can offer a base 120 attack with near-flawless neutral coverage with their STAB attack. Additionally, Samurott packed Aqua Jet to alleviate its somewhat mediocre Speed and to make sweeps possible.

After a bit of experimentation and noticing that Samurott's highest stat was in fact its Special Attack, various people popularized specially offensive Samurott, which is just as dangerous as the physical variant, if not moreso. Special Samurott annihilated all of the physical set's counters, allowing it to act as a lure for other Pokemon and also serve as a phenomenal attacker on its own.​

What caused Samurott to have a significant impact?

Samurott's dominant sets have been very flexible and reacted strongly to how the metagame has developed, meaning that no matter how the metagame played, Samurott was able to hold its own. For example, early on in NU, Samurott's SD set was easily the most dominant (and for good reason!). As the metagame played out, people started preparing heavily for it, which would make any normal Pokemon much less effective... but Samurott's sets adapted to this and suddenly the more popular set was the special one, because just about everyone had Quagsire / Alomomola / Altaria etc on their team to beat out the physical variant. The metagame had also slowed down significantly after Jynx had left, leaving SD Samurott out to dry a little bit because the priority of Aqua Jet was less of an advantage over the raw power of special Samurott.

Its favored spread and item have also been very adaptive over time to show that literally nothing could slow it down. Lum Berry became popular on SD sets as Alomomola gained popularity, and Megahorn found its way into special sets when suddenly Ludicolo became the one true plausible stop to special Samurott. Samurott has also jumped around between Life Orb and Mystic Water, as well as between bulkier Adamant / Modest spreads and Jolly / Timid spreads as each metagame developed. Samurott's stat build and movepool has allowed it to be diverse and adaptive to every single metagame that has existed, being a significant threat in every single one.

Samurott has always been a very consistent, very dangerous Pokemon to have on your team. Its versatility and power is unmatched in NU and it has excelled since the dark ages of Klinklang and Magmortar.​

How do/did you deal with Samurott in NU?

Samurott is easily one of the most challenging Pokemon to deal with in NU. Identifying the set is by far the most important step; both the special set and physical set have completely different counters. For the physical set, Alomomola, Quagsire, physically defensive Amoonguss and fast Pokemon that resist Aqua Jet have probably been the most ideal responses through time. Samurott can also be revenged by a number of faster Pokemon that can live a +2 Aqua Jet, such as Eviolite Electabuzz, Simipour, Simisage, and Rotom-A (it's OHKOed after two SR switch-ins though!). However... nearly all of these counters are demolished by special Samurott, which is really only stuffed by a handful of specially defensive Pokemon, such as Regice, Ludicolo, and Articuno. The real trick has always been figuring out what kind of Samurott your opponent has, and hoping that they don't carry a trick move to beat your only counter for that variant of Samurott. Taunt / Substitute SD Samurott has been used to set up all over Alomomola, Megahorn and Superpower have been carried on special sets for Ludicolo and Regice / Lickilicky...​


Hopefully I didn't forget anything. Samurott has always been fuckin' good, man.
 
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What effect did Mesprit have on the metagame?

Mesprit was like the most used Pokemon for awhile iirc. It was THE stealth rock lead before Rock-types got popular. Mesprit made it almost impossible to keep SR off the field, as what threatened other setters did not threaten it. It was another way to beat Sawk, and could always U-turn out of skuntank / absol! It was a great check to most walls and physical attackers because of its great power and bulk.

In what main roles was Mesprit used?

Stealth Rock lead, calm mind sweeper, choice scarf revenge killer, choice band, all out attacker. Mesprit is probably the most diverse pokemon in NU

What caused Mesprit to have a significant impact?

Great stats, great movepool, decent typing. Mesprit just didn't have many exploitable flaws.

How do/did you deal with Mesprit in NU?

Dark-types did well, pursuiting / night slash it. Also just hitting it really hard breaks it down cause no recovery.
 
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