VGC Pokedad has 11 flawless pokemon. And he sucks. Can you help him make a not so sucky team?

keniselvis

TL:DR: I’m a pokedad. Built my first team. It sucked. Worked harder and built a second team. Still sucked. Can I combine the best of the two teams and make one non totally sucky team? HELP!



Hey!



REALLY appreciate the help! I’m a pokedad and have lurked for a while on various sites thinking I could study up and come up with a team. I clearly need help.


I would really like to create a competitive team. I really enjoy playing but I am really bad.



Here was the first team I bred (All flawless 5 IV):



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Gourgeist (super size) @ (I can’t remember what I had on him before I put him in the pokebank. sorry!)

Ability: Frisk

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def

Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)

-Rock Slide

-Phantom Force

-Shadow Sneak

-Seed Bomb


I picked Gourgeist and these moves based on comments made in the forums. Same thing with the moves. In fact, that's how I picked each one of these.

I know that I'm supposed to give reasoning behind why I picked what move, but really, I was just taking the ideas from what people posted. I didn't really understand why they picked what they did other than things like "rockslide hits both" "Shadow sneak is a priority move" etc.


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Aegislash @ (same problem...can’t remember)

Abilty: Stance Change

EVs: (252 Atk / 252 Atk)

Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)

-Swords Dance

-King’s Shield

-Sacred Sword

-Shadow Sneak


AGain, I picked Aegislash because people were raving about it. I knew that it's stance change was super good as well as king's shield. I often used it's shadow sneak as a priority move to KO low pokes.


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Talonflame @ (same, sorry)

Ability: Gale Wings

EVs: (252 Atk / 126 HP ./ 126 Spd)

Adament Nature (+Atk , -SAtk )

-Swords Dance

-Brave Bird

-Flare Blitz

-Steel Wing


again, talonflame, everyone was talking about how great it is. So I looked on it's thread, read a bunch, and picked out the move set that was the most convincing.



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Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry

Ability: Levitate

EVs: (252 SAtk / 252 Spd)

Modest Nature (+ SAtk , - Atk)

-Will O Wisp

-Thunderbolt

-Hydro Pump

-Protect



Rotom wash was SUPER popular. I know the will o wisp was to help burn people and lower their HP. Thunderbolt was for any water types. Hydro pump was for ground/rock(?). And protect to help rest one pokemon. I used it a lot with Ferrowthorn.



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Greninja @ (can’t remember)

Ability: Protean

EVs: (252 SAtk / 252 Spd)

Hasty Nature (+ Spd, -Def)

-U-turn

-Dark Pulse

-Surf

-Ice Beam


I knew Greninja was good because of Protean. U-turn was so I could switch out without losing an opportunity to attack. Surf was to hit both. Ice beam was for dragon types.




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Azumarill @ (can’t remember)

Ability: Huge Power

EVs: (252 Atk / 126 Spd / 126 HP)

Adament Nature (+Atk , -SAtk )

-Play Rough

-Aqua Tail

-Aqua Jet

-Superpower​


Azumarill was really popular too. i chose him to beat up dragons. I read and read and read and picked out the move set that I thought was the best.



So, because I was new to the VGC, I didn’t understand strategy. I just thought I would grab good pokemon, train them up, and try to target weaknesses on the other team.



People MOPPED the floor with me. It was a joke. Very discouraging.



Here is a link to my Team Builder Results for these six.


So then I scrapped that team, except for Wash Rotom, and bred 5 new pokemon (all flawless, except Salamance has all 6 IVs):



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Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet

Ability: Iron Barbs

EVs: (152? Atk / 252 HP / 50 SpDef)

Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)

-Gyro Ball

-Protect

-Power Whip

-Leech Seed



Ferrothorn was my wall, I think it's called. I would often times protect him in between turns and he could take a lot of hits and leech seed just kept restoring health while iron barbs and rocky helmet damaged anyone that attacked it.



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Salamance @ Salamancite (?)

Ability: Intimidate

EVs: (252 Sp.Atk / 252 Spd)

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

-Hydro Pump

-Draco Meteor

-Fire Blast

-Dragon Pulse


Salamance just seemed awesome. He was getting a lot of people talking about him. And I was new to the game and didn't know who he evolved from and I just thought he was awesome. It covered grass, dragon, and rock/ground. I thought it was pretty good. again, I just took the best move set that someone suggested.


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Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Sand Stream

EVs: (252 Sp.Atk / 252 Spd)

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

-Dark Pulse

-Rock Slide

-Fire Blast

-Protect

Tyranitar...again, it was popular at the time and my son thinks he's awesome so I figured that he had to be really good. he could use a rock move, dark move, and a fire move and he wasn't a dragon so I thought that would make sense for good coverage.


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Mawile @ Mawilite

Ability: Intimidate

EVs: (152? Sp.Def / 252 HP / 50 Atk)

Careful Nature (+Sp.Def, -Sp.Atk)

-Play Rough

-Iron Head

-Sucker Punch

-Protect


I played against someone who had a Mawile and they killed me with it. So I looked it up, found out that it was super popular, read and read and read, and chose a move set. Play rough for Dragons. Iron head for Fairies. Suker punch for a priority move. and Protect...to....protect.



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Garchomp @ Life Orb

Ability: Rough Skin

EVs: (252 Atk / 252 Spd)

Jolly Nature (+Spd, -Sp.Atk)

-Earthquake

-Protect

-Rock Slide

-Dragon Claw


Garchomp was super popular. and he was the fastest, as far as I understood. and my son's absolute favorite. Earthquake to get anyone weak to ground. Rockslide for flying types. Dragon against dragons.



Here is a link to my Team Builder Results for these five with Wash Rotom.


So I took this team to worlds just to play in side games....uhhh, bad idea. Part of my problem is that I didn't know all the different pokemon really well. I remember one guy throwing ludicolo out there and I had no idea what his typing was. so that is obviously part of my problem. I am getting better and have completed my living Dex but I still have so much to learn.


So there you. I have 11 flawless pokemon. Is there any way I can take 6 of them that have some kind of synergy and strategy and make a half-way not totally crappy team out of them? Someone else suggested that I start new and ditch these pokemon. What do you think?


THANK YOU SO MUCH for helping me!!!
 
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I strongly suggest reading the RMT rules - you need at least 3 lines of description for each Pokemon, indicating why you chose them and the role they play on your team.

That said, it's always nice to see new people getting into VGC (by the way, you should fix the tag on this thread; the one you currently have indicates it's for Smogon Doubles, but it's clear you want to get into official competitions), and I'll help you out as much as I can. Since you're running Special Mega Salamence, you should really run Hyper Voice over Hydro Pump - it gets the Aerilate boost and becomes a STAB 120 BP spread move. Also, Dragon Pulse and Draco Meteor are redundant together, so I strongly suggest replacing Dragon Pulse with Protect - Protect is one of the best moves in Doubles, especially on Salamence, who doesn't get to take advantage of the 20-point Speed boost on the first turn it Mega Evolves.

Next up is Talonflame; the one suggestion I would make is changing Steel Wing to Tailwind - Steel Wing really doesn't hit anything relevant other than Rock-types, which Talonflame doesn't want to stay in against anyway. Since you have a lot of slower, bulky attackers such as Tyranitar, Azumarill, and Mega Mawile, having Tailwind support would allow them to outspeed many opposing things and clean up. For an item choice, you could consider Sharp Beak to boost Brave Bird's power without locking yourself into it or adding extra recoil.

You probably shouldn't be running Aqua Tail on Azumarill - I learned the hard way that the 10% chance to miss can and will cost you matches. Waterfall is a much safer option; alternatively, you could try:

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Spe
-Belly Drum
-Aqua Jet
-Play Rough
-Protect

Belly Drum gives Azumarill an immediate +6 Attack at the cost of half its HP, and despite Aqua Jet's 40 BP, it does get priority, and it makes BellyJet Azumarill a great win condition for when its counters are removed. Sitrus Berry is the best item for it, because it helps to circumvent Belly Drum's recoil.

Aegislash actually runs a Special set with Shadow Ball, Flash Cannon, Substitute, and King's Shield better, but I recognize that you may not want to rebreed it for a Quiet nature, so you could try replacing Swords Dance with Iron Head, running Weakness Policy on it, and investing enough EVs to survive weaker Earthquakes so that you can abuse the +2 Attack boost.

One final note: Replace Protect with Ice Beam on Tyranitar; the whole reason to run Scarf Tyranitar is to outspeed and OHKO Dragons, and since using Protect locks yourself into it, there isn't really a reason to run it.

The rest of your Pokemon have pretty good sets, though! If you're looking to mix-and-match them to create an optimal VGC team, a combination I could recommend is Talonflame, Tyranitar, Mega Salamence or Mega Mawile, Azumarill, Rotom-W, and Ferrothorn. Also, I really, really recommend reading this article on Nugget Bridge - it outlines the 50 best Pokemon in the format, and goes into a lot of detail about how high-level players are using them. I know it helped me out a lot. Once you feel like you have a good team, battle with it on Battle Spot - you'll get practice with it, and you'll be able to see how it holds up against opposing teams. I cannot stress this part enough, especially since it seems like you just took Pokemon from other people's teams and put them together with little knowledge of how they work.

Finally, if you want to breed more flawless Pokemon, you can head over to the Wifi forum - there are a few users who give out legitimate 6IV Dittos that make breeding a cakewalk.

Hope I helped! :)
 
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First of all, HUGE thanks for your advice. I REALLY appreciate it!

I did read the RMT rules but I didn't have anything to post about each one, why I picked it, and why I chose the moves that it had. So I did try to do it for gourgiest, and then I realized that those were the same reason I picked all of my guys. So I felt like it would be redundant to keep writing that. Do you think I should so that my RMT doesn't get deleted or locked?

I REALLY appreciate your feedback, man. Wow. This is what I'm talking about. HUGE thank you.

about the nugget bridge article, I started reading it and I was like, "I have all these pokemon...maybe someone can help me make a half way not crappy team out of them." Thus, here I am.

And you are EXACTLY right: I did just take pokemon from other people's teams with little knowledge of how they work. That was EXACTLY what I did.

I will go over to the wifi forum! Question though: Is there truly such a thing as a "legit" 6IV Ditto? Whether there is or not, having one would be AMAZING!!!!

Thanks again!!! Can't wait to make these changes! And hopefully not keep sucking quite so hard!

ken
 
keniselvis said:
First of all, HUGE thanks for your advice. I REALLY appreciate it!

I did read the RMT rules but I didn't have anything to post about each one, why I picked it, and why I chose the moves that it had. So I did try to do it for gourgiest, and then I realized that those were the same reason I picked all of my guys. So I felt like it would be redundant to keep writing that. Do you think I should so that my RMT doesn't get deleted or locked?

I REALLY appreciate your feedback, man. Wow. This is what I'm talking about. HUGE thank you.

about the nugget bridge article, I started reading it and I was like, "I have all these pokemon...maybe someone can help me make a half way not crappy team out of them." Thus, here I am.

And you are EXACTLY right: I did just take pokemon from other people's teams with little knowledge of how they work. That was EXACTLY what I did.

I will go over to the wifi forum! Question though: Is there truly such a thing as a "legit" 6IV Ditto? Whether there is or not, having one would be AMAZING!!!!

Thanks again!!! Can't wait to make these changes! And hopefully not keep sucking quite so hard!

ken
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Hey, no problem!

Sadly, I think this thread is going to be locked, but I will say that even if you just add a blurb on how you have been using these Pokemon, it should reduce the chances.

And yes, there is a such thing as a legit 6IV Ditto; people have figured out how to manipulate the RNG in Generation 5 to catch 6IV Dittos in the wild and then clone them to give away... Smogon sees them as legitimate. Go figure.
 
You're welcome! I actually thought of one more improvement you could make, which is that Rotom-W is much more effective running a more defensive EV spread than max SAtk and max Speed. Since yours is Modest, you could try Choice Specs with investment in HP instead of Speed, but if you're willing to breed for a different nature then Bold or Calm with investment in HP and Def/SDef is better.
 
lucariomaster2 said:
You're welcome! I actually thought of one more improvement you could make, which is that Rotom-W is much more effective running a more defensive EV spread than max SAtk and max Speed. Since yours is Modest, you could try Choice Specs with investment in HP instead of Speed, but if you're willing to breed for a different nature then Bold or Calm with investment in HP and Def/SDef is better.
Click to expand...

awesome! not afraid of breeding! thanks!
 
Gourgeist with full defensive investment should have some non-offensive moves. Leech seed is a big one to slap on there, getting rid of Phantom Force/Shadow Sneak depending on what you need on your team. Since you are bulky enough to take a hit, Phantom Force may be better- especially with leech seed. I would also get rid of Rock Slide for Will-o-wisp. You aren't hitting much hard with an unstab base 75 moves. Will-o-wisp gives you more options.

Choice Scarf + Protect is... interesting. And while it isn't the worst on Tyranitar (for faking out other pokes) it leaves some to be desired. Ice Beam is always a strong option for the plethora of ice weak pokemon.
 
I posted this to reddit as well and one guy told me to think through my pokemon that compliment one another and ones that don't. Wow, that was helpful.

Here's what I came up with:

okay, complementing pokemon:

  • So, certainly I shouldn't totally avoid having pokemon that are 4x weak to something. But I should DEFINITELY know if they are! So in your example, if I'm going to play garchomp I better partner him up with something that will protect him from ice/dragon/fairy. So then I would want Aegislash to protect him against Ice or Fairy. Maybe then I would have a water type move on garchomp to protect Aegislash from fire?

  • Like you said, pairing any pokemon with levitate is great because they won't be effected by earthquake.

  • Love the Ferrothorn and Talonflame example! that is awesome! Brave bird having priority, does that mean that even in trick room it will still go first?

  • Azumarill and Talonflame? Talonflame protects Azumarill from grass and steel. Azumarill protects Talonflame against Rock. but they are both weak to electric. So maybe they wouldn't be good together....hmmm...man...this is so interesting.

  • okay...Azumarill and Ferrowthorn. Azumarill will protect Ferrothorn from fire which it should be weak 4X fire. AND ferrothorn is weak to fighting but fighting is weak to fairy!

  • Salamance and Aegislash as long as Salamance can do a water move to protect aegislash from fire. Aegislash can protect Salamance from fighting and Ice.

  • Mawile and Wash Rotom: Rotom and protect Mawile from ground attacks and fire. But Mawile can't really protect Rotom against electric...

  • Wash Rotom and Talonflame? Rotom is only weak to grass. Talonflame's weaknesses would be covered by Rotom except for electric.

  • Azumarill seems really good. Not a whole lot of weaknesses. Garchomp seems like really good for him. but Azumarill can't protect Garchomp. Maybe Garchomp and Mawile would be better suited?
Okay now for ones that don't go together:

  • Tyranitar is just bad. Man, he's weak to so much! why would anyone pick him?!

  • also bad together would be Salamance and Garchomp. Both weak to ice x4.

  • Salamance and Talonflame are both weak to rock.

  • I want to say that Greninja and Talonflame would complement one another but they are both weak to electric. But talonflame would cover a lot of Greninja's weaknesses. So they would be good together but not against electric?

  • I don't think I have any good partners for gourgeist...it just has too many weaknesses that I don't have answers for.
Alright, my brain hurts. How did I do? what did I miss? and super huge thanks again!
 
UPDATE: I've gotten a lot of help from a guy on Reddit. So here is where I am now with the team:

Alright my friend, here we go! This is a couple hours work. Please know that I am REALLY trying!

Team 1:

  • Garchomp
  • Rotom
  • Talonflame
  • Greninja
  • Aegislash
  • Mega-Mawile
Thanks for giving me the head start on the starters! So I begin with Garchomp and Rotom. I take out Garchomp and put in Aegislash. Or if I need to take out Rotom, I throw Talonflame in there.

The rest of my reasoning was based off the "Teambuilder". I was weak in Dark. My only choice there was Greninja. So now I was down to Azumarill, Ferrothorn, and Mawile. But really it was just between the two fairy types.

Mawile provided me better protection than Azumarill

Team 2:

  • Mega Salamance
  • Wash Rotom
  • Aegislash
  • Greninja
  • Ferrothorn
  • Mawile
Again, I owe you for giving me the starters: Mega Salamance and Mawile. I would change Dragon Claw to Hyper Voice to take advantage of Aerilerate. If I need to take out Mega Salamance I can put in Aegislash. Or if I need to take out Mawile I can put in Wash Rotom.

At this point I'm really feeling like this is the same team as team 1 except for Salamance. Especially when I put in Greninja for his dark attack against ghost.

So then the question is who goes in the six hole? Talonflame, Azumarill, or Ferrothorn.

Talonflame left me the most unbalanced out of the three.

And Azumarill and Ferrothorn are a toss up.

On the one hand Azumarill definitely is the better of the two. EXCEPT it leaves me no answer at all for Electric. Maybe that's not a big deal.

By taking out Power Whip and putting in Bull Doze I gave Ferrothorn an answer to Electric. The problem is that it made me really unbalanced with Fire. However, Rotom-Wash and Greninja give me pretty good protection against Fire.

In the end, I think Ferrothorn is a better choice because I have an answer to Electric AND I have lots of play experience with it. It is SUPER bulky and a favorite of mine because it's such a good wall.

there you go. What do you think? :)
 
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