Gen 3 Pinsir [QC 0/2]

Melt Gibson

horror domain
is a Forum Moderator
[OVERVIEW]
Pinsir carves out a niche for itself in ADV UU as a fearsome wallbreaker that even the most airtight defensive cores can have difficulty switching into. While it faces stiff competition from fellow Bug-type Scyther, Pinsir has several unique qualities that allow it to set itself apart. Hyper Cutter is an excellent ability, allowing Pinsir to shrug off opposing Pokemon with Intimidate such as Granbull, Hitmontop, and Arcanine. Furthermore, Pinsir's access to Earthquake means that, unlike Scyther, it is capable of powering through Arcanine and the tier's several Electric-types. Pinsir also boasts a whopping twenty extra base Attack, which, paired with access to Swords Dance, causes it to largely outdamage Scyther when it is able to land a hit.

However, Pinsir's competition as a Bug-type wallbreaker is rather stiff, as Scyther possesses several advantages over it that largely allow it to be more consistent. Where Pinsir takes the lead in Attack, it suffers greatly in Speed, notably being slower than common threats that can take advantage of Pinsir's poor special bulk like Arcanine and Tentacruel. It also lacks Scyther's access to Quick Attack, leaving it even more vulnurable to faster opponents while also being weak to opposing priority. Pinsir's lack of a secondary STAB also means it is much more difficult to deal with Misdreavus and Haunter, and being forced to use Hidden Power Bug as its STAB move of choice severely limits the coverage it can access.

[SET]
Pinsir @ Silk Scarf / Leftovers
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge / Rock Slide

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Finding its stride against slower teams, Pinsir is best served by threatening bulky Pokemon that are otherwise difficult to dispatch, such as Ampharos, Solrock, and Lanturn, with its strong variety of attacks, forcing the opponent to decide between a multitude of unsafe switches. A Jolly nature allows Pinsir to speed tie with 176 Speed Arcanine, letting it possibly get off an Earthquake. Earthquake is Pinsir's main draw over Scyther, making it mandatory on any set. On the other hand, Double-Edge allows for Pinsir to remain threatening in situations where Earthquake is not safe and Hidden Power Bug will not do enough damage. Silk Scarf propels Double-Edge's damage even further, being able to cleanly 2HKO Arcanine and 2HKO physically defensive Walrein after a Swords Dance and one spike. Rock Slide is also an option in the last slot with Leftovers over Silk Scarf, exchanging Double-Edge's wide breadth of neutral hits for a super effective option into Walrein, an option to hit Haunter and Misdreavus, and the ability to OHKO opposing Scyther should it choose to switch in.

Team Options
=========
A Spikes user is almost mandatory on teams with Pinsir, as despite Pinsir's inherent power, Hidden Power Bug is rather weak and the extra damage that entry hazards provide helps Pinsir to reach several important damage benchmarks against extremely common Pokemon like Walrein, Kangaskhan, and Arcanine. Qwilfish is a particularly good choice, as its access to Thunder Wave greatly alleviates the issues regarding Pinsir's mediocre Speed. This is especially effective when taking into account Pinsir's passable to strong matchups against many clerics, such as Granbull and Vileplume, and the fact that several of these clerics, notably Ampharos, also double as some of Pinsir's primary targets. Qwilfish and Glalie can also use Self-Destruct or Explosion, respectively, when they have served their purpose to further weaken a target for Pinsir. Conversely, Pinsir also appreciates a Rapid Spin user, as unlike Scyther, it is not immune to Spikes. Hitmontop provides support with Intimidate, helping to alleviate Pinsir's mediocre bulk, while Blastoise and Tentacruel appreciate Pinsir's ability to threaten Electric-types and can help it to deal with Solrock, which can pose a threat to Pinsir if not weakened prior. Electric-types also make excellent partners by providing a much-needed Flying resistance, with Ampharos also being able to provide clerical support. Electabuzz, on the other hand, is a handy revenge killer that greatly improves Pinsir's matchup into faster threats such as Scyther and Tentacruel. In return, Pinsir resists Ground-type moves and muscles through these Pokemon's common checks with Hidden Power Bug and Earthquake.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
=========
Choice Band as an item is an option for more immediate power, dropping Swords Dance for Rock Slide, Double-Edge, or even Brick Break or Focus Punch. However, this makes Pinsir much more prediction reliant and the inability to switch moves can lead to awkward situations, something Pinsir is already rather prone to. It is generally worse than Swords Dance and in most cases should not be seriously considered. Substitute in conjunction with Salac Berry is also an option to remedy Pinsir's lackluster speed and to provide a buffer against opposing status moves, but can leave Pinsir in awkward situations regarding its coverage, requiring more team support for difficult matchups such as Misdreavus and Scyther.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Arcanine**: Despite Hyper Cutter providing immunity to Intimidate, Arcanine still functions as powerful offensive check, often able to outspeed Pinsir and effortlessly OHKO it with Fire STAB of choice. Even Salac Berry variants must be wary, as Arcanine can threaten to pick them off with Extreme Speed after they are weakened.

**Quagsire**: Quagsire is able to shrug off Pinsir's attacks, even after a boost, and can deal significant damage in return with either Curse-boosted attacks of its own or Counter.

**Ghost-types:** As Double-Edge is a large source of Pinsir's damage against neutral targets, Ghost-types such as Misdreavus, Haunter, and even Sableye can give it a tough time, shrugging off Hidden Power Bug and messing with it in a variety of ways. The former two's access to Levitate also makes them immune to Earthquake, meaning Pinsir must be carrying Rock Slide to hit them for any meaningful damage.

**Flying-type Attackers**: In addition to being its biggest competition, Scyther is also one of Pinsir's biggest checks, outspeeding it and doing significant damage with STAB Flying-type moves. In addition, Pinsir lacking Rock Slide can not OHKO Scyther from full, meaning that even if it does not OHKO with Aerial Ace, Scyther will likely be able to hit Pinsir again and net a KO. Gligar also poses a significant threat, being able to speed tie with Pinsir and taking little damage from variants not carrying Double-Edge, while also dealing significant damage in return with Hidden Power Flying.
 
Last edited:

EllingtonReborn

I'm Amity
is a Pre-Contributor
Good work so far but I think this needs a lot of changes, I feel like this downplays Pinsirs weaknesses it has and theres misinfo scattered here and there. Check back on me when you've implemented and ill give it another look.

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[OVERVIEW]
Pinsir carves out a niche for itself in ADV UU as a fearsome wallbreaker that even the most airtight defensive cores can have difficulty switching into. While it faces stiff competition from fellow Bug-type Scyther as well as Gligar, Pinsir has several unique qualities that allow it to set itself apart. Hyper Cutter is an excellent ability, allowing Pinsir to shrug off opposing Pokemon with Intimidate such as Granbull, Hitmontop, and Arcanine. Furthermore, Pinsir's access to Earthquake means that, unlike Scyther, it is capable of powering through Arcanine and the tier's several Electric-types. Pinsir also boasts a whopping twenty extra base Attack, which, paired with access to Swords Dance, causes it to largely outdamage Scyther when it is able to land a hit with its coverage. (Scyther has Swarm so...)

(Also just say that Hyper Cutter and EQ are also key to Gligar, but Pinsir's advantage is its ability to take on faster Water- and Electric-types such as Tentacruel Trode and Ebuzz as well as setting up on the Nidos.)


However, Pinsir's competition as a Bug-type wallbreaker is rather stiff, as Scyther possesses several advantages over it that largely allow it to be more consistent. Where Pinsir takes the lead in Attack, it suffers greatly in Speed, notably being slower than common threats that can take advantage of Pinsir's poor special bulk like Arcanine and Tentacruel. It also lacks Scyther and Gligar's access to Quick Attack, leaving it even more vulnurable to faster opponents while also being weak to opposing priority. Pinsir's lack of a secondary STAB also means it is much more difficult to deal with Misdreavus and Haunter, and being forced to use Hidden Power Bug as its STAB move of choice severely limits the coverage it can access.

[SET]
Pinsir @ Silk Scarf / Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge / Rock Slide

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Finding its stride against slower teams, Pinsir is best served by threatening bulky Pokemon that are otherwise difficult to dispatch, such as Ampharos, Solrock, and Lanturn, with its strong variety of attacks, forcing the opponent to decide between a multitude of unsafe switches. A Jolly nature allows Pinsir to speed tie with 176 Speed Arcanine, letting it possibly get off an Earthquake. (Please please never attempt Arcanine speed ties. Youll never win and Arcanine can just EV above that benchmark as it already does for Jolly Gligar. Just say Jolly helps tie with other base 85s such as Gligar Nidoking Qwilfish Golduck) Earthquake is Pinsir's main draw over Scyther, making it mandatory on any set. On the other hand, Double-Edge allows for Pinsir to remain threatening in situations where Earthquake is not safe and Hidden Power Bug will not do enough damage (This sentence is way too drawn out for saying it's a reliable midground, and you dont even mention the targets it means to hit such as Flyers). Silk Scarf propels Double-Edge's damage even further, being able to cleanly 2HKO Arcanine and 2HKO physically defensive Walrein after a Swords Dance and one spike (You don't need to mention benchmarks necessarily, and also +2 252 Atk 30 IVs Silk Scarf Pinsir Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Walrein: 268-316 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery). Rock Slide is also an option in the last slot with Leftovers over Silk Scarf, exchanging Double-Edge's wide breadth of neutral hits for a super effective option into Walrein, an option to hit Haunter and Misdreavus, and the ability to OHKO opposing Scyther should it choose to switch in. (Mention Lum Berry to dodge status that would ruin a Pinsir sweep, it's likely one of Pinsir's better items bc of para everywhere. Also probably side mention Adamant.)

(If you actually want to mention benchmarks, do so for common physical walls, Pinsir can 2HKO Omastar Granbull Hitmontop and Vileplume after SD. It can also 2HKO Kanga w physdef which i think you really want to mention one of Pinsirs best setup opportunities is a Kanga Rest in the same way other SDers get their setup. Just fundamentals of the meta that i think are a bit absent here so far.)

Team Options
=========
A Spikes user is almost mandatory appreciated on teams with Pinsir, as despite Pinsir's inherent power, Hidden Power Bug is rather weak and the extra damage that entry hazards provide helps Pinsir to reach several important damage benchmarks against extremely common Pokemon like Walrein, Kangaskhan, and Arcanine. Qwilfish is a particularly good choice, as its access to Thunder Wave greatly alleviates the issues regarding Pinsir's mediocre Speed. This is especially effective when taking into account Pinsir's passable to strong matchups against many clerics, such as Granbull and Vileplume, and the fact that several of these clerics, notably Ampharos, also double as some of Pinsir's primary targets (I wouldnt really say that, clerics definitely have things for Pinsir switching in ((Stun Spore Plume, Body Slam Bull, TWave Amphy if Amphy doesnt decide to 2HKO that day)), if not just wall Pinsir in the case of Altaria, this seems like an arbitrary thing to include and you can leave it at Pinsir appreciating paralysis support). Qwilfish and Glalie can also use Self-Destruct or Explosion, respectively, when they have served their purpose to further weaken a target for Pinsir. (Mention Omastar too, brings the most defensive utility and checks Scyther for Pinsir.) Conversely, Pinsir also appreciates a Rapid Spin user, as unlike Scyther, it is not immune to Spikes. Hitmontop provides support with Intimidate, helping to alleviate Pinsir's mediocre bulk and switching into Kangaskhan and Solrock, while Blastoise and Tentacruel appreciate Pinsir's ability to threaten Electric-types and can help it to deal with Solrock and Arcanine, which can pose a threat to Pinsir if not weakened prior. Electric-types also make excellent partners by providing a much-needed Flying resistance, with Ampharos also being able to provide clerical support. Electabuzz and Electrode, on the other hand, is a are handy revenge killer killers that greatly improves Pinsir's matchup into faster threats such as Scyther and Tentacruel. In return, Pinsir resists Ground-type moves and muscles through these Pokemon's common checks such as Nidoqueen, Ampharos, and Cradily with Hidden Power Bug and Earthquake.

(So the reason why I changed the spikes sentence from "mandatory" to appreciated is that A. Pinsir's checks dont take Spikes damage and B. If Pinsir is being used as a lead these Spikes just don't matter at all as Pinsir is a one-and-done lead. Mention Pinsir's place in the lead metagame and how it tends to win on average vs any lead that isn't Arcanine, being a great fit on offense teams as a way to make early progress and bring in offensive Spikers such as Glalie and Qwilfish midgame.)

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
=========
Choice Band as an item is an option for more immediate power, dropping Swords Dance for Rock Slide, Double-Edge, or even Brick Break or Focus Punch. However, this makes Pinsir much more prediction reliant and the inability to switch moves can lead to awkward situations, something Pinsir is already rather prone to. It is generally worse than Swords Dance and in most cases should not be seriously considered. Substitute in conjunction with Salac Berry is also an option to remedy Pinsir's lackluster speed and to provide a buffer against opposing status moves, but can leave Pinsir in awkward situations regarding its coverage, requiring more team support for difficult matchups such as Misdreavus and Scyther.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Arcanine**: Despite Hyper Cutter providing immunity to Intimidate, Arcanine still functions as powerful offensive check, often able to outspeed Pinsir and effortlessly OHKO it with Fire STAB of choice. Even Salac Berry variants must be wary, as Arcanine can threaten to pick them off with Extreme Speed after they are weakened.

**Quagsire**: Quagsire is able to shrug off Pinsir's attacks, even after a boost, and can deal significant damage in return with either Curse-boosted attacks of its own or Counter. (This doesn't really seem like a meaningful check especially because Pinsir resisting Ground helps it set up, Quag needs to 2HKO with +2 HP Rock or OHKO with +4 HP Rock to actually make progress into Pinsir. This seems too situational and backwards for Quag to be here.)

**Ghost-types:** As Double-Edge is a large source of Pinsir's damage against neutral targets, Ghost-types such as Misdreavus, Haunter, and even Sableye can give it a tough time, shrugging off Hidden Power Bug and messing with it in a variety of ways (clarify). The former two's access to Levitate also makes them immune to Earthquake, meaning Pinsir must be carrying Rock Slide to hit them for any meaningful damage.

**Flying-type Attackers**: In addition to being its biggest competition, Scyther is also one of Pinsir's biggest checks, outspeeding it and doing significant damage with STAB Flying-type moves. In addition, Pinsir lacking Rock Slide can not OHKO Scyther from full, meaning that even if it does not OHKO with Aerial Ace, Scyther will likely be able to hit Pinsir again and net a KO. Gligar also poses a significant threat, being able to speed tie with Pinsir and taking little damage from variants not carrying Double-Edge, while also dealing significant damage in return with Hidden Power Flying.
 

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