ORAS Ubers Teambuilding Compendium

[Minority]

ORAS Ubers Teambuilding Compendium

(Original Thread and Concept by Edgar, Approved by Fireburn and Sweep)​

Several people have been asking for the updated version of this since it's pretty great as a reference tool. It works the same as the old thread, so drop suggestions and updates as needed. As stated in the previous thread: This compendium contains basic structures for teams and an array of possible mons for specific roles on teams. Having a visual cue helps people build better and more diverse teams.



Team Archetypes

Hyper Offense:

Bulky Offense:

Balance:

Stall:

Others: (Trick Room / Webs / Baton Pass)



Major Changes Introduced in ORAS

Primal Groudon: This Pokemon shaped the ORAS metagame more than any other. With very high offensive stats, bulk, access to boosting moves, and an immunity to water / paralysis / burns, this behemoth is only troubled by a weakness to Ground and lack of recovery. In the wake of this Pokemon, Kyogre's ability to break down teams has been largely impaired, while Pokemon such as Arceus-Poison, Arceus-Electric, Dialga, Genesect, Zekrom, and Aegislash find a new powerful foe. With the fall of Kyogre, Pokemon such as Palkia, Arceus-Grass, and Arceus-Water have become much less popular in the wake; largely because Choice Scarf and Choice Specs Kyogre were negatively impacted by Primal Groudon. The common use of Primal Groudon has also resulted in an increased use of Pokemon such as Arceus-Ground, Lugia, and Yveltal, as well as the increased use of Ground type coverage for several offensive Pokemon. Primal Groudon is also a significant contributor to the shift of a more physically oriented metagame as compared with XY.

Anti-Hazard Buff: With the introduction of Soul Dew and two viable users of Magic Bounce, ORAS furthered the anti-hazard buff that began in XY. Ho-Oh greatly benefits from this, and its use has significantly increased as with more anti-hazard support options it has become easier to fit on teams. Sticky Web has taken a huge hit in viability, thus further reducing the already small niches held by Pokemon such as Shuckle, Smeargle, and Mega Lucario. More flexibility for defoggers have impacted suicide hazard leads to an extent, and offensive teams typically have a more difficult time keeping hazards up.

Weather Nerf: ORAS continues the trend to a less weather-dependent metagame that started in XY with the introduction of Desolate Land and Primordial Sea. These abilities not only overwrite any current weather, but make it impossible to change the weather. The domination of these new primal weathers is eliminated by the fact that they dissipate once the primal Pokemon in question is switched out. As a result, usually the only time weather is on the field is when Primal Groudon or Primal Kyogre is on the battlefield.

Other New Offensive Threats: In addition to Primal Groudon, ORAS introduced some other powerful offensive threats. With good bulk, respectable offensive stats, and a powerful new ability Aerialate, Mega Salamence has become a defining threat in the ORAS Ubers metagame with its Dragon Dance set. With the return of Soul Dew, Latios and Latias are back with their powerful Draco Meteors and Calm Mind sets. Although Mega Rayquaza is not permitted in ORAS Ubers, normal Rayquaza has still gained the powerful Dragon Ascent, which frees it from its dependence on Outrage for a powerful STAB attack. Mega Diancie while not as defining as Lati@s or Mega Salamence, can still function as a new dynamic offensive threat with access to Magic Bounce, Heal Bell and Calm Mind.



General Assets

Primal Groudon Checks

Mega Salamence Checks

Xerneas Checks

Extremekiller Arceus Checks

Ho-Oh Checks

Darkrai Checks

Primal Kyogre Checks

Stealth Rock Setters

Toxic Spikes

Anti-Hazard Support

Cleric Support

Priority

Stallbreakers

Pursuit Trappers

Offensive Assets

Offensive Stealth Rock Setters

Offensive Xerneas Checks

Offensive Extremekiller Arceus Checks

Offensive Primal Groudon Checks

Emergency Cleric / Support

Defensive Assets

Instant Recovery

Wishpassers

 

[orch]

Primal Groudon Checks

ray is borderline but others are wat. what's your definition of check?

 

[Inspirited]

The official definition is that "Given a free switch, if Pokemon X can beat Pokemon Y one-on-one under reasonable conditions, it is considered a check to Pokemon Y." This is not the definition we always use since we as Ubers player like our Checks to be able to switch into some attacks at least but Deoxys-A and Kyurem-W do check Primal Groudon by the definition. Darkrai can check it with Dark Void and good sleep roll, but yeah, its not a very good check, I agree. (it should probably be removed)

Life Orb Rash Deoxys-A always KOes 248 / 56 / 204 Impish Primal Groudon after any sliver of prior damage healthy chance without:

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- 252+ SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 204 SpD Primal Groudon: 368-434 (91.3 - 107.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 204 SpD Primal Groudon: 337-398 (83.6 - 98.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Any other Primal Groudon is fried, but it is still a very shaky check and one should still have another, more solid check on a team in conjunction with Deoxys. A sliver of prior damage is a reasonable condition in Groudon's case though, since it is a switch-in for a lot of Attacks that scratch it slightly, but scratch it nonetheless. It could stay, it could go too. I will not complain either way though.

_________________

Kyurem-W is similar, but it actually always nets the KO after Stealth Rock so long as Draco hits and it can live a hit from defensive Primal Groudon:

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- 252+ SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 204 SpD Primal Groudon: 378-445 (93.7 - 110.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 0 Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-W: 235-277 (60.1 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
- 0 Atk Primal Groudon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-W: 262-310 (67 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 0 Atk Primal Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-W: 210-248 (53.7 - 63.4%)
- 0 Atk Primal Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-W: 210-248 (53.7 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

It can't take a hit from Rock Polish Primal Groudon after Stealth Rock, but it can without and will always OHKO these with Draco, rocks or not:

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252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-W: 300-354 (76.7 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-W: 334-394 (85.4 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-W: 268-316 (68.5 - 80.8%)
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-W: 268-316 (68.5 - 80.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Yeah, this one is a bit better than Deoxys, but still not great. you definitely want a second check in the wings, but it can do it. Ince again, whether it goes or stays doesn't really matter to me.

 

[Hack]

Ok stop with the pointless arguing about definitions, it's pretty clear that you shouldn't encourage players to think along lines as "Deo-A is a check to Groudon because it can OHKO it" or "Mewtwo-Y can check Ho-oh because it's on this list". Just remove all mons that can realistically never switch in without taking shitloads of damage in the process, no matter how hard they hit back. To help I took the time to actually point to what is supposed to be removed from where and why:

Primal Groudon Checks
Deo-A, Darkrai, Kyurem-W. The first two must be a joke, Kyurem-W is I guess ok but it doesn't actaully OHKO so I don't see the point.

Mega Salamence Checks
Cloyster, Bronzong, Arceus-Normal. Cloyster is a lead and won't be able to check DD Mence late game, Bronzong isn't viable and Arceus-Normal is... Arceus-Normal. I mean sure you can technically "check" most things with STAB espeed but in this scenario you are up against a foe that has 130 defense to boot. You aren't even revenge killing easily because of this fact.

Xerneas Checks
Why is metagross so high lol? Not even that viable oh well. Gengar and Genesect aren't good checks to GeoXern so just remove. Excadrill requires specific support so it's borderline. Bronzong isn't viable, Victini is border-line viable or not viable and Blissey is very shaky.

Extremekiller Arceus Checks
Doesn't look too bad, if you want the list to represent viability then I'm flabbergasted Yveltal is so high up. Gliscor, Lando-T and Terrakion are probably unnecssary here. Mega Sableye can be added.

Ho-Oh Checks
Mewtwo-Y isn't what you should be looking into when finding suitable mons to check Ho-oh with, it should be pretty obvious. Lugia is as much a check as TTar is so it goes in here although Ho-oh is Ho-oh and probably beats 90 % of these checks 50 % of the time.

Kyogre and Primal Kyogre Checks
Dialga straight up loses to pretty much any variant. Ferro is the best check if you wanna bump that first. Again, what are Mewtwo formes doing on this list at all? Defensive Pogre doesn't even get 2HKOd...

Stealth Rock Setters
Well you are making this list more optimistic than when actually building in practice, that's for sure. Forretress shouldn't ever run SR though, if you get the idea of running Forry in the first place (niche is tspikes).

Idk why you run a section for "offensive assets" when stuff certainly overlaps with the "regular lists" anyway.

 

[Edgar]

Not going to hate on this thread but I'm just going to say that it would have been nice if Fireburn, Sweep or yourself had asked me if I was Ok with you making this thread as the concept was mine. I was planning to do this after SPL since, not only don't I have the time to analyze and post it but also I think the meta has yet to settle. You should have done what Steelskitty did:

haha

 

[Minority]

The reason why I included the offensive assets section is because it filters out all the Pokemon that fall under that category but don't fit on an offensive team. This way when looking for offensive checks there are fewer mons to have to sort through.

I included Hack's proposed changes, however Edgar's original thread had several Pokemon listed under sections that either weren't viable, or couldn't directly switch into that threat. I was using the original thread to gauge extensiveness of the lists vs. how strict they should be, which is why the "wut" comments began rolling in. I guess this time around we are going to be more conservative.

To Edgar, I'm sorry for posting this thread. I had no idea you had the intent of reviving this (I don't check user profiles very much because I'm still relatively new here). Several others and myself have been wanting this resource up for awhile because of how convenient it is for both new and older players to build teams with. It doesn't really matter if the meta hasn't settled yet, because threads can be edited as necessary (see viability rankings, analyses, etc.) while no matter how the metagame trends, Clefable will continue to check EKiller, Kanga will continue to have priority, and Gengar will continue to stallbreak. If you wanted for me to add anything new you had in mind for this thread I think that would be a good idea.

 

[ChaosNemesis]

Lack ok Arceus-rock among ho-oh checks.
Lack of Ferrothorn among Xerneas checks.

Ditto is in offensive Xerneas check but not in regular check.

 

[Inspirited]

Lack ok Arceus-rock among ho-oh checks.

You may want to look again. It is the first thing listed.

 

[Minority]

Added Ferrothorn to Xern checks as it can do well versus defensive and scarf variants.

 

[pi3rate]

why isnt mega slowbro on the mega mence/ho-oh section? also it would be nice if there was a section for yveltal checks too just something to implement.

 

[-Leon-]

Anyone wanna tell me how Ttar checks Mega Salamence? I can't figure that out :/

 

[DracoMaster Dab]

Shuca Berry tanks eq and counter KO's also it can twave predicting the roost but doesnt check mence very well without shuca. Stone Edge can also kill a weakened mence.u can also run ice beam if ur desperate.

 

[Dilwar]

Not sure if I agree with MMX being an Ekiller check, I mean sure it wins 1v1 but that's not exactly how you check Ekiller. If we use that criteria then Mega Beedrill may as well be a Xern check.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo X: 321-380 (90.9 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO - this doesn't even include Stealth Rock

If there's some weird bulkier MMX set I don't know about then I apologise, I haven't played this tier in a long time.

Mega Diancie being a Ho-oh check is kinda shaky. Straight up dies to Earthquake and still takes a fuck ton from LO Brave Bird.

 

[Minority]

Even without any attack investment MM2X OHKOs EKiller while it only takes a bit of HP investment to escape the OHKO from +2 LO EKiller. Unlike the Beedrill example, MM2X isn't outsped and is actually viable. I would never use it as a sole check for defensive teams, but it is one of the few Pokemon that can OHKO EKiller without any setup needed.

As for the Ho-Oh vs. Diancie argument, nothing can comfortably switch into Ho-Oh, so if we start removing stuff that can't comfortably switch in then we have to remove the entire list.

 

[Lemonade]

I believe Level 56 posted stallbreaker MMX in Victim of the Week, which comfortably lives ESpeed and OHKOes with Low Kick, but I haven't used stallbreaker so idk how good it is as a whole. Just KOing without having to rely on status is really nice though

 

[Dilwar]

Even without any attack investment MM2X OHKOs EKiller while it only takes a bit of HP investment to escape the OHKO from +2 LO EKiller. Unlike the Beedrill example, MM2X isn't outsped and is actually viable. I would never use it as a sole check for defensive teams, but it is one of the few Pokemon that can OHKO EKiller without any setup needed.

As for the Ho-Oh vs. Diancie argument, nothing can comfortably switch into Ho-Oh, so if we start removing stuff that can't comfortably switch in then we have to remove the entire list.

Ah so there is a set, thanks for letting me know. True about Ho-oh lol, it's a monster.

 

[Minority]

Maybe I can find a little icon of SR and put that in front of Arc Rock for Ho-Oh checks.

 

[PoweredByRevenge]

I think it would be nice if you could add Gliscor to the Ho-oh checks list since its pretty decent at doing so.

 

[Hack]

I think it's better to remove the Ho-oh checks section altogether. Beating Ho-oh is done by smart building and smarter playing- the key is to play the hazard game right and have appropriate defensive response if your team needs it due to giving it free switch ins. Often offensive teams can get away with no check to Ho-oh by virtue of being physically offensive and able to pressure defogers, so some teams do not actaully need any of the listed checks which is, as I interpret the list, pretty much the case for every other singular mon that is mentioned on it.

So: You need a true check to Xern, Ekiller, Kyogre and maybe even Mence but when it comes to Ho-oh it's less linear because reasons. Removing the Ho-oh section is appropriate as the list is far to simple to handle that kind of teambuilding. I could write a thread on how to build/play against Ho-oh but after getting smashed by Jibaku I guess ppl wouldn't take me too seriously on that matter.

 

[Nayrz]

I, for one would love to see a detailed thread about dealing with Ho-Oh. Its a real bitch to deal with and unlike extremely strong mons like Xerneas and Primal Groudon which actually have stops - Ho-Oh is actually the hardest thing to "check" when teambuilding (many RMTs you see these days are very weak to it as a result of lack of knowledge) simply because its checks are easy to bypass or cant deal with prolonged attacks. It would be great for experienced and new players alike to see how top players play around a pokemon that has no outright counter.

 

[kingmidas]

I would like all revenge killing related mons to a new section or mixed priority. New players need to learn the difference and thinking stuff like shaymin effectively checking kyogre ain't right.

 

[Minority]

The problem with splitting revenge killers off the checks section is that revenge killers are checks (Scizor to Xern for example). The list is meant to be inclusive so that there are a variety of options available during teambuilding; if we eliminate all but the best checks (the ones that can comfortably switch in, don't get beaten down, and threaten in return) then all the lists will be pathetically small and the purpose of this thread gone. Obviously a passive team should never solely rely on a check that cannot actually afford to switch in, which is why in general the stuff that checks via revenge killing is lower on the lists.

 

[Jibaku]

Not sure if I agree w/ the Ho-Oh section being removed. Even though beating it is probably more technical than most other threats due to the combination of Regenerator and its 4x weakness to Rock, I think it's still worth mentioning which mons can swap into Ho-Oh and force it out. Ho-Oh is such a crucial enemy for stall and balanced teams to cover and it's more difficult to keep SR on the enemy team with a slower pace. Then there's also the issue of you having a Ho-Oh as well - because (unless you have Rapid Spin and they don't have a ghost) if both teams have SR down, you also have to deal with your own Ho-Oh being crippled if you want to keep SR on the field to check theirs. Sometimes you want more solid Ho-Oh answers to ensure that the enemy's Ho-Oh doesn't run you down if you decide to Defog.

Because of this I think it would be better to be stricter on Ho-Oh's checks list than the checks for the other mons, to take into account Ho-Oh's ability to repeatedly come in thanks to Regenerator, should you need something more reliable than hazard control. Maybe put a footnote indicating that controlling SR is your best answer to ho-oh in general.

 

[Minority]

I only removed the Ho-Oh checks section because of the overwhelming support along with Hack's post on the subject. If enough people think it deserves to return but with a more strict list I'll put it back.

 

[dice]

u can circumvent checking other mons besides hooh on offense as well. i get hack's point but it doesn't apply only to just hooh and it requires certain checks and counters needed on balance / stall as well