The Eevee General We have been waiting fairly patient for a while. and while this waiting is going on SS is just running rampant in the tier almost as bad Mega Khan did in OU. I belive Hollywood needs to do something soon as this discussion has been discussing this for almost 4 months thats kinda bad considering usually smogon is quick about the tests usually being about 2 or 3 weeks if I am not mistaken. I apologize if I seem rude
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Ladder Monotype [Read post #393 for Tiering Updates]
- Thread starter ryan
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pretty much what Emily said, We've been plenty patient 4 months of waiting and declining discussion.
Okay, in all honesty, I rarely if ever post on the forums here, and I've been on several very long hiatuses (I popped in about a week ago to see Talonflame banned in Mono OU and that shocked me, let that sink in about how long I've been gone, but that's old news on this thread and I am not going to drag that up again, I've already subbed Infernape in where Talon used to be and moved on, whether I agree with it or not).
Now it's a bit late and I'm only awake because there's something scurrying around in my walls and keeping me up, but bear with me please.
I don't really ladder well, I'll be the first to admit. I LOVE battling, I LOVE testing teams. But for the love of Arceus I just can't ever get higher than 1500 no matter the ladder. It's not that I'm clueless as to how to use good Pokemon well, it's not that I don't learn from my defeats. It's the fact that laddering just gets to me, I just can't handle the pressure well. I can feel my blood pressure rising on turn one of a Ranked Battle, so I can't handle more than a few fights a day. But day in and day out I love to run calcs, I love to do unranked battles with friends. I'm just giving people a bit of an idea of how I work here, that no, I am not the best ladderer, but I do love Pokemon, I love Competitive Pokemon, and one of my favorite Metas is Monotype OU.
Swift Swim+Drizzle, from what I've seen and from all the evidence people keep giving, is just not fair, and not healthy, plain and simple. I may not be a top player but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that this combination is unhealthy for this environment. Banning Damp Rock won't be enough, all most offensive Swift Swim users need is the 4 turns they get on a swap to tear open a hole in the enemy's team. Heck, we've even seen evidence of how just Rain Dance+Swift Swim can lead to hilarious Sweeps against a Neutral team.
Personally, my favorite Mono to run is Fire, and let me tell you I just gave up on winning Weather Wars against Rain after Talonflame was banned, he was my main means of stopping Politoed after luring him out when the rain was over (And even that had to work twice in a row, which still tended to result in me losing). I even gave up using MCY and went for X, which had actually helped me significantly against a significant amount of teams (Less people expected it, and people running Sap Sipper Azumarill seemed shocked by the even less expected Thunderpunch over Outrage/Dragon Claw.). Volcarona's Giga Drain is nice but unless it's at a minimal of +3 Speed, it's getting vastly outsped by any Swift Swim user. And if the opponent has Rocks up? Arceus save my soul was I boned in the rain, even Sassy+Vest Torkoal with 252HP can't take a STAB Hydro Pump in those conditions (I have my reasons for the Vest over Lefties, namely that Torkoal needs to SURVIVE a hit to get those dreaded Rocks off the field, and the vest has let it tank unboosted Rotom-W Hydro Pumps before).
Anyways, sorry if I'm rambling a bit but please, PLEASE don't let the only nerf to this powerful combination be "Ban Damp Rock". 4 turns is all a Drizzle+Swift Swim team needs to absolutely demolish just about any Mono Fire team it comes up against, you can only sacrifice so many teammates to get Megazard Y out, and Megazard Y can only take so many hits. Even with Roost in play (Roost on the turn they swap to Politoed, swap back out, lather, rinse, repeat), it tends to make the battles last too long for most people's liking. Plus, you don't WANT to send out Megazard Y against most of these SS Pokemon if you can help it (bar Ludicolo), which tends to end with a teammate being sacrificed to preserve Charizard.
252+ SpA Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 168-198 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That's too much damage for Megazard to keep Roosting away, eventually it'll get whittled down enough. And a lot of Kingdra I've seen seem to go for Specs or a Life Orb, if it has that up I doubt even 252 HP would save the poor lizard. This is of course an offensive Megazard Y as opposed to a Defensive variant (if anyone even runs that), and I used the standard OU Kingdra on the calculator, I'm not 100% on what the Mono OU Standard is.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Charizard Y: 184-217 (51.1 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yeah, look at that, Kingdra is entirely capable of, with the right item, over the period of a match, whittling down just about any Megazard Y set as it vainly tries to swap in and out to keep you from obliterating it's team with Rain-boosted STAB and Speed.
I shouldn't even have to go into why swapping into Kabutops is a bad idea for Megazard Y.
It seems to be able to handle Ludicolo just fine granted you gave it Roost, but that really turns into what feels like an Endless Battle of swapping your Weather Setters in and out repeatedly, healing as you go along. The only way I could see this battle ever going in the Fire user's favor is if the opponent ISN'T using Kingdra or Kabutops, or if the Fire user is packing Ninetales as well as Megazard Y, but even that's iffy at best, as well as being redundant and taking up precious team slots just for the times you face a Drizzle+SS user.
I've been at this for a while and I feel ready to pass out. I know my examples are probably redundant at this point, and that people are probably going to disagree with me on the grounds that I'm not a top ladderer or that I'm not always on Mono OU, but please, please consider what I have to say here. From everything I've seen and the reasons I've given, logically speaking Drizzle+Swift Swim needs to be stopped for the very reasons Talonflame was supposedly banned: It gives one Type a nearly unstoppable advantage over another to the point that Fire cannot feasibly beat Water if they run this set, without having to run otherwise bad or obscure Pokemon or sets.
I've never run Mono Rock or Ground myself, so I'm not going to touch on those. But I'm going to assume that, unless Rock's Weather Setter is AV T-tar, it's in the same boat as MCY, and the same goes for Hippowdon.
Now it's a bit late and I'm only awake because there's something scurrying around in my walls and keeping me up, but bear with me please.
I don't really ladder well, I'll be the first to admit. I LOVE battling, I LOVE testing teams. But for the love of Arceus I just can't ever get higher than 1500 no matter the ladder. It's not that I'm clueless as to how to use good Pokemon well, it's not that I don't learn from my defeats. It's the fact that laddering just gets to me, I just can't handle the pressure well. I can feel my blood pressure rising on turn one of a Ranked Battle, so I can't handle more than a few fights a day. But day in and day out I love to run calcs, I love to do unranked battles with friends. I'm just giving people a bit of an idea of how I work here, that no, I am not the best ladderer, but I do love Pokemon, I love Competitive Pokemon, and one of my favorite Metas is Monotype OU.
Swift Swim+Drizzle, from what I've seen and from all the evidence people keep giving, is just not fair, and not healthy, plain and simple. I may not be a top player but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that this combination is unhealthy for this environment. Banning Damp Rock won't be enough, all most offensive Swift Swim users need is the 4 turns they get on a swap to tear open a hole in the enemy's team. Heck, we've even seen evidence of how just Rain Dance+Swift Swim can lead to hilarious Sweeps against a Neutral team.
Personally, my favorite Mono to run is Fire, and let me tell you I just gave up on winning Weather Wars against Rain after Talonflame was banned, he was my main means of stopping Politoed after luring him out when the rain was over (And even that had to work twice in a row, which still tended to result in me losing). I even gave up using MCY and went for X, which had actually helped me significantly against a significant amount of teams (Less people expected it, and people running Sap Sipper Azumarill seemed shocked by the even less expected Thunderpunch over Outrage/Dragon Claw.). Volcarona's Giga Drain is nice but unless it's at a minimal of +3 Speed, it's getting vastly outsped by any Swift Swim user. And if the opponent has Rocks up? Arceus save my soul was I boned in the rain, even Sassy+Vest Torkoal with 252HP can't take a STAB Hydro Pump in those conditions (I have my reasons for the Vest over Lefties, namely that Torkoal needs to SURVIVE a hit to get those dreaded Rocks off the field, and the vest has let it tank unboosted Rotom-W Hydro Pumps before).
Anyways, sorry if I'm rambling a bit but please, PLEASE don't let the only nerf to this powerful combination be "Ban Damp Rock". 4 turns is all a Drizzle+Swift Swim team needs to absolutely demolish just about any Mono Fire team it comes up against, you can only sacrifice so many teammates to get Megazard Y out, and Megazard Y can only take so many hits. Even with Roost in play (Roost on the turn they swap to Politoed, swap back out, lather, rinse, repeat), it tends to make the battles last too long for most people's liking. Plus, you don't WANT to send out Megazard Y against most of these SS Pokemon if you can help it (bar Ludicolo), which tends to end with a teammate being sacrificed to preserve Charizard.
252+ SpA Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 168-198 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That's too much damage for Megazard to keep Roosting away, eventually it'll get whittled down enough. And a lot of Kingdra I've seen seem to go for Specs or a Life Orb, if it has that up I doubt even 252 HP would save the poor lizard. This is of course an offensive Megazard Y as opposed to a Defensive variant (if anyone even runs that), and I used the standard OU Kingdra on the calculator, I'm not 100% on what the Mono OU Standard is.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Charizard Y: 184-217 (51.1 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yeah, look at that, Kingdra is entirely capable of, with the right item, over the period of a match, whittling down just about any Megazard Y set as it vainly tries to swap in and out to keep you from obliterating it's team with Rain-boosted STAB and Speed.
I shouldn't even have to go into why swapping into Kabutops is a bad idea for Megazard Y.
It seems to be able to handle Ludicolo just fine granted you gave it Roost, but that really turns into what feels like an Endless Battle of swapping your Weather Setters in and out repeatedly, healing as you go along. The only way I could see this battle ever going in the Fire user's favor is if the opponent ISN'T using Kingdra or Kabutops, or if the Fire user is packing Ninetales as well as Megazard Y, but even that's iffy at best, as well as being redundant and taking up precious team slots just for the times you face a Drizzle+SS user.
I've been at this for a while and I feel ready to pass out. I know my examples are probably redundant at this point, and that people are probably going to disagree with me on the grounds that I'm not a top ladderer or that I'm not always on Mono OU, but please, please consider what I have to say here. From everything I've seen and the reasons I've given, logically speaking Drizzle+Swift Swim needs to be stopped for the very reasons Talonflame was supposedly banned: It gives one Type a nearly unstoppable advantage over another to the point that Fire cannot feasibly beat Water if they run this set, without having to run otherwise bad or obscure Pokemon or sets.
I've never run Mono Rock or Ground myself, so I'm not going to touch on those. But I'm going to assume that, unless Rock's Weather Setter is AV T-tar, it's in the same boat as MCY, and the same goes for Hippowdon.
i know i've said this many times on showdown, but i'll put it out here as it hasn't been discussed yet...
monotype ladder needs a separate ladder from OU; aegislash and mega-maw are manageable (mega-maw less so) and imo do not deserve a ban
also as for mono-rock vs drizzle / swift swim, even AVtar doesn't like switching into water moves, and it is useless after a burn from scald. hopefully mega-swampert w/ swift swim will finally push this playstyle over the edge
monotype ladder needs a separate ladder from OU; aegislash and mega-maw are manageable (mega-maw less so) and imo do not deserve a ban
also as for mono-rock vs drizzle / swift swim, even AVtar doesn't like switching into water moves, and it is useless after a burn from scald. hopefully mega-swampert w/ swift swim will finally push this playstyle over the edge
One thing I most certainly forgot to mention was that Arash above me admittedly brought up was, while they can tank a few hits due to the essential +2 Special Defense (for T-tar, Hippowdon is hardly in the same boat, lacking a Rock typing), they now lack ANY means of reliable recovery, and they had next to none to begin with (what do they have, Rest? Leftovers? Politoed may be in the same boat but it's also not on the team at a disadvantage here)
Also, the lack of attention this thread is getting is a bit worrisome. When did Hollywood last post here again? July sometime?
Also, the lack of attention this thread is getting is a bit worrisome. When did Hollywood last post here again? July sometime?
It shouldn't, because the tier is literally OU monotype. OU monotype. It is based around the OU tier, We are able to re-test things, yet it's best not to. It may overly-complicate things. If it would be best to do it, Nani and Hollywood could reconsider bans, yet it's best not to.
We could always just rename it "Monotype", if OU's bans are getting in the way.
If you can convince Hollywood to have it happen, then it can.
Hello friends, today I want to discuss a major change with how Monotype shall function from now on. We have always simply followed the standard OU banlist and well, that obviously is catered for the OU metagame and not for monotype. And as you know, monotype is very different compared to OU. Below i've placed the current standard OU ban list.
As most people remember, the first step Monotype took to shifting away from the standard OU banlist was banning Talonflame. This was the first act that separated us and
with that in mind, I mentioned to Hollywood and haunter that we complete the transition from finally having our own ban list. The way I suggested going about this was implementing a new tiering system which comprises of two components:
1. Create a brand new global ban list (just like the one shown above, but catered to monotype).
2. List each type with its appropriate ban condition aka type ban (introduces complex bans, but it is the only way).
Our new current global ban list is as shown below: (i.e banned completely from Monotype)
Text in red signifies removal from the standard OU banlist, blue is addition.
So looking at above, basically Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Mawilite and Genesect have been freed, whilst Aegislash is no longer globally banned, but placed under a complex ban condition. How complex bans shall function from now on is by following the second component I mentioned above, which are type bans. The type bans as of now are follows:
Looking at that, it now tells you Aegislash cannot be used by Steel, but allowed to be used by Ghost. And as for Damp Rock, it cannot be used by water, but can be used by anything else.
tl;dr
Mawilite, Deoxys-S, Deoxys-D, Genesect have been globally unbanned for now. Aegislash has been type banned. And with all that said, the new ban list for Monotype is as follows:
Pokemon:
Aegislash
Arceus
Blaziken
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys-Attack
Deoxys-Defense
Deoxys-Speed
Dialga
Genesect
Giratina
Giratina-O
Groudon
Ho-oh
Kyogre
Kyurem-W
Lugia
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-S
Xerneas
Yveltal
Zekrom
Items:
Gengarite
Kangaskhanite
Lucarionite
Mawilite
Moves:
Double Team
Minimize
Swagger
Aegislash
Arceus
Blaziken
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys-Attack
Deoxys-Defense
Deoxys-Speed
Dialga
Genesect
Giratina
Giratina-O
Groudon
Ho-oh
Kyogre
Kyurem-W
Lugia
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-S
Xerneas
Yveltal
Zekrom
Items:
Gengarite
Kangaskhanite
Lucarionite
Mawilite
Moves:
Double Team
Minimize
Swagger
with that in mind, I mentioned to Hollywood and haunter that we complete the transition from finally having our own ban list. The way I suggested going about this was implementing a new tiering system which comprises of two components:
1. Create a brand new global ban list (just like the one shown above, but catered to monotype).
2. List each type with its appropriate ban condition aka type ban (introduces complex bans, but it is the only way).
Our new current global ban list is as shown below: (i.e banned completely from Monotype)
Text in red signifies removal from the standard OU banlist, blue is addition.
Pokemon:
Aegislash
Arceus
Blaziken
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys-Attack
Deoxys-Defense
Deoxys-Speed
Dialga
Genesect
Giratina
Giratina-O
Groudon
Ho-oh
Kyogre
Kyurem-W
Lugia
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-S
Talonflame
Xerneas
Yveltal
Zekrom
Items:
Gengarite
Kangaskhanite
Lucarionite
Mawilite
Moves:
Double Team
Minimize
Swagger
Aegislash
Arceus
Blaziken
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys-Attack
Deoxys-Defense
Deoxys-Speed
Dialga
Genesect
Giratina
Giratina-O
Groudon
Ho-oh
Kyogre
Kyurem-W
Lugia
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-S
Talonflame
Xerneas
Yveltal
Zekrom
Items:
Gengarite
Kangaskhanite
Lucarionite
Mawilite
Moves:
Double Team
Minimize
Swagger
So looking at above, basically Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Mawilite and Genesect have been freed, whilst Aegislash is no longer globally banned, but placed under a complex ban condition. How complex bans shall function from now on is by following the second component I mentioned above, which are type bans. The type bans as of now are follows:
Syntax: Type, Banlist
Normal: Nothing
Fighting: Nothing
Flying: Nothing
Poison: Nothing
Ground: Nothing
Rock: Nothing
Bug: Nothing
Ghost: Nothing
Steel: Aegislash
Fire: Nothing
Water: Damp Rock
Grass: Nothing
Electric: Nothing
Psychic: Nothing
Ice: Nothing
Dragon: Nothing
Dark: Nothing
Fairy: Nothing
Normal: Nothing
Fighting: Nothing
Flying: Nothing
Poison: Nothing
Ground: Nothing
Rock: Nothing
Bug: Nothing
Ghost: Nothing
Steel: Aegislash
Fire: Nothing
Water: Damp Rock
Grass: Nothing
Electric: Nothing
Psychic: Nothing
Ice: Nothing
Dragon: Nothing
Dark: Nothing
Fairy: Nothing
tl;dr
Mawilite, Deoxys-S, Deoxys-D, Genesect have been globally unbanned for now. Aegislash has been type banned. And with all that said, the new ban list for Monotype is as follows:
Global Pokemon Bans:
Arceus
Blaziken
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys-Attack
Dialga
Giratina
Giratina-O
Greninja
Groudon
Ho-oh
Kyogre
Kyurem-White
Lugia
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-Sky
Talonflame
Xerneas
Yveltal
Zekrom
Global Item Bans:
Gengarite
Kangaskhanite
Lucarionite
Mawilite
Metagrossite
Salamencite
Slowbronite
Soul Dew
Moves:
Double Team
Minimize
Swagger
Type-Only Bans:
Steel: Aegislash, Genesect
Water: Damp Rock
Psychic: Galladite
Flying: Zapdos
Last edited:
Then the post above is fucking M. Night Shyamalamadingdong to you.
Now, these may be the changes as of now, yet one thing is certain.
1) these changes aren't made to the server yet. you will have to wait until server restart. So as of now, the current banlist stands, yet once the server restarts, that's when the new mono will be placed.
2) Tier Shift mono will not change. as dumb as it may seem. It doesn't have the same priorities as us. That metagame follows the OU banlist and standard clauses. While we make our own rule. In dis shit with our own rules! So to sum it up, The monototype bans that don't unban things (Talonflame Damp rock) are banned, yet we can't unban mega mawilite, or Genesect
3) I believe that Hollywood should fix the OP soon... it's been supposed to be "swagged out later" since November. Just to add the new banlist to the OP.
I would like to know the reasoning, if any, for the Aegislash complex ban.
The Whole Aegislash, Ferrothorn, Heatran and Skarmory core caused alot of problems for users to deal with, and most people abused the core in mono because they knew what it could do, so that could be the reason to why it was a complex ban for aegislash, while ghost lost on of their few physical attackers as well
Yeah, the core was the only thing I saw that was even remotely a plausible reason. However, I don't think it holds enough merit to say Aegislash should be banned on steel entirely. Other types can provide great coverage cores.
Zarif, a man can dream.
Zarif, a man can dream.
In reality, for ghost, the issue isn't viable attackers. Although Aegislash fills an excellent role as one of the few strong physical attackers in ghost, it is not the only one. Rather, Aegislash aggravates the typing's fire weakness (perpetuated by the type's reliance on Will-O-Wisp to compensate for its lack of consistent bulk), and offers unreliable bulk at best in Shield Form. It has one status move, in Toxic, but doesn't have access to Will-O or Thunder Wave itself to act as a supporting mon, so most ghost users are forced to rely on their 'bread and butter' in the form of Gourgeist, Jellicent, Doublade, Cofagrigus, or others. The thing about ghost, though, is that no one team is the same. There isn't a mold that can be accepted that makes the team strong enough, but its issue isn't a lack of a physical attacker (found in Banette, in Golurk, and in Trevenant, if needed, all offering the same level, or greater, of coverage for a ghost team) but rather in its lack of a reliable way to get rid of hazards.
Ghost has one Pokemon that is legal that has access to the move defog. No ghost type learns rapid spin. This Pokemon is Drifblim, and for the many people out there unfamiliar with Drifblim, its base stats are 150/80/44/90/54/80 (BST of 498). It has access to the abilities Aftermath, Unburden, and Flare Boost (1.5x special attack when burned). It's not viable as a serious attacker given these stats. Its special attack is barely able to overtake Gengar in power, but due to its speed, without investment, it will be outsped and killed by most variants of Bisharp. Assuming that Drifblim has switched in to Defog at any point in the game, it is at most at 75% health.
252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Drifblim: 390-462 (77.3 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Being OHKOed by Bisharp is not a new thing for ghost type, but that's just a fact to life with the typing. Unfortunately, its best walls are Ubers material. Not many things can OHKO Drifblim, thankfully, but unlike some other Defoggers (Namely all of Flying type), Drifblim has no access to Roost or any recovery except for Pain Split (a highly unreliable recovery at that), so although it barely lives Flare Blitz from Charizard X (Not guaranteed)
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Drifblim: 331-390 (65.6 - 77.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Drifblim: 256-303 (50.7 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Drifblim: 176-208 (34.9 - 41.2%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
On the special side
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Drifblim: 255-301 (50.5 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Drifblim: 290-344 (57.5 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Drifblim in Sun: 325-384 (64.4 - 76.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
There is no doubt that Drifblim has decent bulk and some uses, but it's not able to consistently pull through for a team. Unfortunately, it's not even on the roster of most teams because, outside of Defogging, it doesn't have real use. It tends to run a full support set (Baton Pass Sets, Will-O, Walling Sets) all paired with Defog in an attempt to make it viable, but it's few and far between.
------
Drifblim is not the only Pokemon that has access to Defog, though, as both of the other Ubers for Ghost Type, Arceus and Giratina, have access to Defog. Arceus has too strong of a movepool to be considered to be brought down, but Giratina has genuine potential for being brought down. Although it is a strong Pokemon, it is restricted in its own ways. It's considered one of the greatest walls in the meta, granted a strong typing in ghost/dragon, but it has limited coverage offensively (Running Dragon Pulse, Shadow Ball, Rest Talk and some other variants, but never really anything groundbreaking coverage wise) and is still walled effectively by some popular sets in the meta (especially Assault Vest sets, walled horrifically by special walls of all types) and is eventually forced to try and overpower by maxing boosts. It gets phased easily because of its reliance on Rest as recovery. This variant will be stopped mostly by physical attackers, and variants running Physical Bulk without Calm Mind, opting to burn, will be disposed of effectively by special attackers as well.
252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 216-254 (42.9 - 50.4%) -- 42.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 252-299 (50 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 306-360 (60.8 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 186-218 (36.9 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 270-320 (53.6 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 288-342 (57.2 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
It is relatively effective at deflecting hits with its bulk, designed towards blocking these attacks, and the concern with bringing it down would be its Calm Mind set just for its ability to wall both Physical and Special Attackers effectively. At base 100 attacks, 120 in Origin Form, it's a decent attacker, but not a threat, another reason that people run its Calm Mind set.
------
TL;DR, Bring down Giratina, despite its holding in ubers, for ghost typing to bring an option for Defog and a more reliable wall for ghost typing (The type plagued by Pokemon that either have high defensive stats or a high HP stat, never both, never balanced.)
Ghost has one Pokemon that is legal that has access to the move defog. No ghost type learns rapid spin. This Pokemon is Drifblim, and for the many people out there unfamiliar with Drifblim, its base stats are 150/80/44/90/54/80 (BST of 498). It has access to the abilities Aftermath, Unburden, and Flare Boost (1.5x special attack when burned). It's not viable as a serious attacker given these stats. Its special attack is barely able to overtake Gengar in power, but due to its speed, without investment, it will be outsped and killed by most variants of Bisharp. Assuming that Drifblim has switched in to Defog at any point in the game, it is at most at 75% health.
252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Drifblim: 390-462 (77.3 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Being OHKOed by Bisharp is not a new thing for ghost type, but that's just a fact to life with the typing. Unfortunately, its best walls are Ubers material. Not many things can OHKO Drifblim, thankfully, but unlike some other Defoggers (Namely all of Flying type), Drifblim has no access to Roost or any recovery except for Pain Split (a highly unreliable recovery at that), so although it barely lives Flare Blitz from Charizard X (Not guaranteed)
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Drifblim: 331-390 (65.6 - 77.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Drifblim: 256-303 (50.7 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Drifblim: 176-208 (34.9 - 41.2%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
On the special side
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Drifblim: 255-301 (50.5 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Drifblim: 290-344 (57.5 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Drifblim in Sun: 325-384 (64.4 - 76.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
There is no doubt that Drifblim has decent bulk and some uses, but it's not able to consistently pull through for a team. Unfortunately, it's not even on the roster of most teams because, outside of Defogging, it doesn't have real use. It tends to run a full support set (Baton Pass Sets, Will-O, Walling Sets) all paired with Defog in an attempt to make it viable, but it's few and far between.
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Drifblim is not the only Pokemon that has access to Defog, though, as both of the other Ubers for Ghost Type, Arceus and Giratina, have access to Defog. Arceus has too strong of a movepool to be considered to be brought down, but Giratina has genuine potential for being brought down. Although it is a strong Pokemon, it is restricted in its own ways. It's considered one of the greatest walls in the meta, granted a strong typing in ghost/dragon, but it has limited coverage offensively (Running Dragon Pulse, Shadow Ball, Rest Talk and some other variants, but never really anything groundbreaking coverage wise) and is still walled effectively by some popular sets in the meta (especially Assault Vest sets, walled horrifically by special walls of all types) and is eventually forced to try and overpower by maxing boosts. It gets phased easily because of its reliance on Rest as recovery. This variant will be stopped mostly by physical attackers, and variants running Physical Bulk without Calm Mind, opting to burn, will be disposed of effectively by special attackers as well.
252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 216-254 (42.9 - 50.4%) -- 42.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 252-299 (50 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 306-360 (60.8 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 186-218 (36.9 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 270-320 (53.6 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 288-342 (57.2 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
It is relatively effective at deflecting hits with its bulk, designed towards blocking these attacks, and the concern with bringing it down would be its Calm Mind set just for its ability to wall both Physical and Special Attackers effectively. At base 100 attacks, 120 in Origin Form, it's a decent attacker, but not a threat, another reason that people run its Calm Mind set.
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TL;DR, Bring down Giratina, despite its holding in ubers, for ghost typing to bring an option for Defog and a more reliable wall for ghost typing (The type plagued by Pokemon that either have high defensive stats or a high HP stat, never both, never balanced.)
Bringing down an Uber specifically for a single type to get some sort of boost is an outrageous gesture. It will over complicate things.
It's no different a request than the current proposition of Aegislash or the guaranteed future requests for Grass with Shaymin-Sky or other types that are considered less than competitive. If the goal is to balance monotype, bringing ubers down and banning new Pokemon is exactly what needs to be done.
Considering what else exists in the tier, like the newly unbanned Genesect, I'm pretty positive that the tier is either gonna go the route of unbanning ubers, or banning everything. It's chosen the former route, and could even continue with it with a few other unbans (Shaymin Sky for Grass, Kyurem White for Ice, Talonflame for Fire (We can do complex bans now, woo), while also considering bans within the meta (Medichamite in fighting, for example). This is a completely different metagame from OU, and while there are still strong Pokemon, exceptionally strong Pokemon, there are weaker types that need them and stronger types that need fewer. This isn't as simple as remeshing the game haphazardly. To be completely honest, it should go through a series of tests to see what works and what doesn't not just snap decisions.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. While we may unban a few more ubers, for the most part I think the ones likely to be unbanned have already been unbanned. Shaymin-s, for example, is horrifically uncompetitive with its paraflinch (getting a 100% ban vote in its suspect test), and Kyu-W is far too powerful for the meta. Mega Medicham could potentially be banned in the future for its ability to smash through normal and steel teams, but first we need to let the metagame settle down a little and see how everything's doing, rather than getting ahead of ourselves.
Please no Giratina, please no break monotype :[
Nothing would be able to beat the Rest Talk CM set. Rest, Sleep Talk, Calm Mind, Dragon Pulse / Shadow Ball / Some Move. It doesn't matter if it resists if it's at +6 .3.
Also, it's Wil-o-wisp + Dragon Tail set would screw so many people over.
It's called the great wall of Ubers for a reason
However, a Mega Gar ban could be legit.. it'd get rid of walls like Chansey and Blissey, something Ghost can never seem to do.
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Since we have this new banlist, does that mean there will be suspect tests for monotypes in the future?
I don't know atm since we aren't an offical tier. But who knows? If you give Haunter enough drinks he just might. (Inb4 he removes this post too :[ )
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