Megamons

[Whydon]

approved by The Eevee General
original thread by TheBurgerKing99
art by Sparkl3y​

Welcome to Megamons! This is an old metagame that was owned by TheBurgerKing99 a while back. He has since gone inactive, thus Megamons is being rebooted. What is Megamons you may ask?

Megamons is an Ubers based metagame that introduces three new changes to the metagame:

1. You can use more than one Mega Evolution on a team (Species Clause is still applied).
2. You can use Mega Evolutions without Mega Stones. This means that when you send them into battle, they will already be in Mega forme.
3. Mega Pokemon can now hold items.
   These rules are applied to Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre as well.

Banlist and Clauses:

• Clauses: Standard Ubers clauses.
• General Bans: Mega-Rayquaza
• Current Suspect(s): Mega-Salamence with an item.
  
• Mega Restrictions: The following list of Mega-Pokemon can only be used if you Mega-Evolve their base forms during battle:

[

]
Follow this list to see what you need to equip in the teambuilder in order to use one of these megas:
Gengar with Gengarite, Mewtwo with Mewtwonite X/Y, Groudon with Red Orb, Kyogre with Blue Orb.


Strategy:

What to prepare for

Pinsir-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Quick Attack
- Return
- Earthquake
- Close Combat​

Mega Pinsir is very, very potent in this metagame. With the ability to hold Choice Band it is an extremely powerful option for any offensive team (or really, just any balanced team). Quick Attack and Return are just for powerful STAB, Equake and Close Combat are for some powerful coverage.​

Lucario-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance / Iron Tail
- Extreme Speed / Iron Tail

Another extremely powerful attacker. This might not be the best set, but I'm sure you can already assume the power this thing possesses. Adaptability + LO is completely and utterly insane, coupled with the fact that it has priority in Bullet Punch (STAB) and Extremespeed, as well as Close Combat and Iron Tail for powerful attacks. Feel free to run Swords Dance if you want to add to its already intense power.​

Slowbro-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Iron Defense / Amnesia
- Ice Beam / Thunder Wave / Toxic

Tired of all of those extremely powerful attackers? Mega Slowbro might just be what you need. With Leftovers it can now recover even more health each turn and can setup very easily. Because of Shell Armor you don't have to worry about crits, which is extremely useful. Iron Defense / Amnesia away until you're bulky enough to just stall out your opponent's team. Very handy for all of those offensive Pokemon running around.​

And much, much more!

Q&A:

Q: Can I still use the base forms of these Pokemon and Mega Evolve them with their stones?
A: Sure, why not? It probably isn't a good idea, but I guess if you want to take advantage of Sableye's Prankster or Sharpedo's Speed Boost before Mega Evolving then it can maybe be a possible strategy.

Q: Are any normal Ubers still viable here?
A: Possibly! Giratina acts as an excellent counter and check to many Mega Pokemon, and all Ubers still retain their great stats, abilities and movepools. Of course, who knows how they will adapt to all the new threats?

Q: Because I can only use Mega-Mewtwo X/Y if I Mega-Evolve their base forms during battle, does this mean they can't hold items like Life Orb?
A: That is correct. This is because these megas were deemed too powerful when given an item slot.

Q: How can I make sure my megas will automatically be Mega Evolved when I send them out in battle?
A: In the teambuilder, all you have to do is add the Mega Pokemon, not the base form (unless you want to use the base form). From there, you can just switch the Mega Stone into a different item of your choice.

Q: Is this playable anywhere?
A: Technically you can play this on Showdown! by using the Balanced Hackmons format, just make sure your opponent is using legal sets and abilities! This is playable on the main server for the entire month of April!


Replays:

[1] - ft. Mega Banette & MegaBro Stall

[2] - ft. Double Primals (this battle is before the Item Restriction was implemented on both Primals)

[3] - ft. Scarf Trick MegaGard


Resources
nv's guide to common Megas in Megamons
DEG's list of common Defensive and Offensive Pokemon in Megamons

Viability Rankings

 

[bp scrub]

I'm thinking that Salamence might be one of the only pokemon worth using with a stone, because of how good Intimidate + that bulk is.

Scarf Primal Kyogre is obviously gonna be a nightmare, with 15% more power than normal kyogre and more special bulk.

Latias/os Mega with Soul Dew are gonna be insanely good probably, with very good special bulk and extremely high offenses.
+1 252 SpA Mega Latias Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 226-267 (66.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Ice Beam vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 130-154 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO

That's an extremely easy 2hko on kyogre, while Kyogre, one of the strongest special attackers (second strongest) can't even 2hko with a super effective attack.

Also is Mega Rayquaza unbanned? It really isnt anything special now that every mega can hold any item.

 

[Whydon]

For now, Mega Ray will remain banned. It still has immense power, an amazing ability and great coverage that I can't see it being unbanned right now.

 

[bp scrub]

To give an idea of how absurd the Latis' stats are
Assuming both of them have 252 spatk/252 speed with timid (ik, not ideal for latias prob), their stats are the equivalent of
Latias Mega: 80/100/120/235/235/110
Latios Mega: 80/130/100/275/190/110
Latios' Special Attack is so high that it's not even achievable with the current base stat limits.

 

[Groovy groudon]

This seems like a really fun meta idea, but the banlist seems a bit off. It seems a bit unfair to me to have the mega mewtwo's banned (they aren't that good in ubers tbh) when you are still allowing things pdon and Mmence which define ubers without a item.

Knock off spam ftw

 

[Mega-Serperior-Z]

Hey! I remember this meta.

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Choice Specs / Life Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast

This Pokemon is a powerful hitter. Though, since the rules are the Uber's Banlist, it gets WALLED by all the walls there like Giratina and Lugia. It also gets shutdown by Primal Kyogre, so you will have to rely on outspeeds and predicts. It hits things hard neutrally and effectively.

I'm considering making a Tailwind Mega Heracross team, anyone want to battle soon?

 

[Whydon]

This seems like a really fun meta idea, but the banlist seems a bit off. It seems a bit unfair to me to have the mega mewtwo's banned (they aren't that good in ubers tbh) when you are still allowing things pdon and Mmence which define ubers without a item.

Knock off spam ftw

I'm following the banlist that the original thread had. Although I do agree that PDon is very powerful and might need to go. As for Megamence, maybe? I haven't used it much so I'm not really sure how good it will be here. I might unban the Mewtwos based off of what everyone thinks, but for now I think I'll keep them there.

I'm considering making a Tailwind Mega Heracross team, anyone want to battle soon?

I have a few teams on Showdown! if you'd like to battle.

 

[Stocke]

M-Pinsir + M-Salamence birdspam core tbh

in all seriousness, there are a frankly ridiculous number of good offensive Megas as compared to defensive ones. Teambuilding isn't quite as simple as "pick any six of them and you're good to go", but it's pretty close.

And yes, Flying will be a dominant offensive type here because of how good Megas Salamence and Pinsir when allowed to hold items are. If you do want to try to play defensively here, be sure to pack a good Flying resist.

 

[Bice]

Hey! I remember this meta.

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Choice Specs / Life Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast

This Pokemon is a powerful hitter. Though, since the rules are the Uber's Banlist, it gets WALLED by all the walls there like Giratina and Lugia. It also gets shutdown by Primal Kyogre, so you will have to rely on outspeeds and predicts. It hits things hard neutrally and effectively.

I'm considering making a Tailwind Mega Heracross team, anyone want to battle soon?

While Air Slash is fine and dandy coverage, imo I'd slash Roost over Air Slash because Charizard Y will get worn down easily between Stealth Rock and Life Orb recoil. Obviously, you should only run Roost if you're running Life Orb, because you don't wanna be like this guy:

Turn 19
The opposing Pyroar used Protect!
The opposing Pyroar protected itself!
Turn 20
I look smert withdrew Pyroar!
I look smert sent out Malamar!
Turn 21
★Laxuy: ok
I look smert withdrew Malamar!
I look smert sent out Pyroar!
Pointed stones dug into the opposing Pyroar!
Gurdurr used Knock Off!
The opposing Pyroar lost 51% of its health!
Gurdurr knocked off the opposing Pyroar's Choice Specs!
The opposing Pyroar fainted!
Chakra: wtf
★I look smert: i was locked in protect

 

[Samtendo09]

Aside of you guys mentionned and those banned in this Meta, which Mega Pokemon is potentially the best if not broken?

I would found Primal Kyogre a bigger trouble since he has now access to Choice Scarf, so bring your Primal Groudon after Primal Kyogre switched out if you want to avoid the dreaded Primordial Sea + Choice Scarf + Water Spout.

 

[Whydon]

Okay, I'm thinking about a quick ban for Soul Dew since it makes Mega Latios ridiculous. Might consider making an Item Ban for Primals so they can only hold their orbs. I'll have to look more into all three Pokemon though.

Also, Mega-Banette anyone? It's the only Pokemon that gets both Prankster and Destiny Bond, and since it can hold a Focus Sash now, it can put some pressure onto the opposing team.

 

[Stocke]

Also, Mega-Banette anyone? It's the only Pokemon that gets both Prankster and Destiny Bond, and since it can hold a Focus Sash now, it can put some pressure onto the opposing team.

Yeah, M-Banette does seem promising here. The main two things holding it back in Standard are that it doesn't get to hold a Focus Sash/Leftovers like other Prankster abusers and it doesn't get Prankster on the turn it Mega Evolves, but both of those are fixed here.

 

[Samtendo09]

Okay, I'm thinking about a quick ban for Soul Dew since it makes Mega Latios ridiculous. Might consider making an Item Ban for Primals so they can only hold their orbs. I'll have to look more into all three Pokemon though.

Also, Mega-Banette anyone? It's the only Pokemon that gets both Prankster and Destiny Bond, and since it can hold a Focus Sash now, it can put some pressure onto the opposing team.

About the Item Ban, I don't think it would make sense for me. It is almost like we would also Item Ban for Mega Rayquaza, and then anyone banned from Megamons to make them kept, so either let this try or ban the two Primals if they are really way too overwhelming. If the two Primals could only hold their Orbs, though, it would be like the plain same way in the Uber Tier.

 

[Whydon]

About the Item Ban, I don't think it would make sense for me. It is almost like we would also Item Ban for Mega Rayquaza, and then anyone banned from Megamons to make them kept, so either let this try or ban the two Primals if they are really way too overwhelming. If the two Primals could only hold their Orbs, though, it would be like the plain same way in the Uber Tier.

Good point. Okay, for now I'll keep the Primals as they are. Kyogre-Primal could become very fearsome with a Scarf, but then again if its Water attack gets predicted then Groudon-Primal can just come in and force Kyogre out.

However, I will be quickbanning Soul Dew. I think the stats shown earlier where Mega Latios can literally go over the max base stat limit in Special Attack is pretty ridiculous and it'll just end up being unhealthy in the future.

 

[Samtendo09]

Good point. Okay, for now I'll keep the Primals as they are. Kyogre-Primal could become very fearsome with a Scarf, but then again if its Water attack gets predicted then Groudon-Primal can just come in and force Kyogre out.

However, I will be quickbanning Soul Dew. I think the stats shown earlier where Mega Latios can literally go over the max base stat limit in Special Attack is pretty ridiculous and it'll just end up being unhealthy in the future.

Very well. But if the Primals would be deemed too broken, I can only blame myself for letting them a chance.

 

[QT]

Good point. Okay, for now I'll keep the Primals as they are. Kyogre-Primal could become very fearsome with a Scarf, but then again if its Water attack gets predicted then Groudon-Primal can just come in and force Kyogre out.

However, I will be quickbanning Soul Dew. I think the stats shown earlier where Mega Latios can literally go over the max base stat limit in Special Attack is pretty ridiculous and it'll just end up being unhealthy in the future.

I'd like to firmly dereccomend a ban on soul dew lati twins.

The problem of which I speak is primal kyogre. The thing is stupidly powerful- even uber standard blissey has a 60% chance of being 2hko'd. This means the only mons that can live a hit are fully invested blissey, eviolite chansey, pdon on the swithcj, and... the lati twins. Chansey isn't runnable because of MGar, while the lati twins are being banned. This means you either have to run a supoptimal blissey while keeping rocks off and completely pristine all the time, keep a pdon in reserve all the time, or lose a mon every time it comes in. Whats more, even those two can be ko'd if, surprise, the pogre is specs and you just died.

Basically, ban Pogre and lati@s, or niether.

 

[Whydon]

I'd like to firmly dereccomend a ban on soul dew lati twins.

The problem of which I speak is primal kyogre. The thing is stupidly powerful- even uber standard blissey has a 60% chance of being ko'd. This means the only mons that can live a hit are fully invested blissey, eviolite chansey, pdon on the swithc, and... the lati twins. Chansey isn't runnable because of MGar, while the lati twins are being banned. This means you either have to run a supoptimal blissey, keep a pdon in reservere all the time, or lose a mon every time it comes it.

Basically, ban Pogre and lati@s, or niether.

Just wanted to say that Mega-Gengar is banned, while only Soul Dew is being banned and the Latis can still run other items like LO, Leftovers, Choice Items, etc.

I am definitely for a Primal-Kyogre ban if people think it will be too broken. One of the things Kyogre was missing was higher speed, and it can now achieve that with a Scarf. I'm leaning towards banning it, but would like some input from other people as well.

 

[Samtendo09]

I'd like to firmly dereccomend a ban on soul dew lati twins.

The problem of which I speak is primal kyogre. The thing is stupidly powerful- even uber standard blissey has a 60% chance of being 2hko'd. This means the only mons that can live a hit are fully invested blissey, eviolite chansey, pdon on the swithcj, and... the lati twins. Chansey isn't runnable because of MGar, while the lati twins are being banned. This means you either have to run a supoptimal blissey while keeping rocks off and completely pristine all the time, keep a pdon in reserve all the time, or lose a mon every time it comes in. Whats more, even those two can be ko'd if, surprise, the pogre is specs and you just died.

Basically, ban Pogre and lati@s, or niether.

I see your point. At least what I said about Item Ban on Primals could also affect Mega-Ray other banned Megas wouldn't make sense and make them inferior compared to others like Mega Lucario. Banning Pogre would be wise, but Primal-Don remains tougher with access for an item.

 

[QT]

Just wanted to say that Mega-Gengar is banned, while only Soul Dew is being banned and the Latis can still run other items like LO, Leftovers, Choice Items, etc.

I am definitely for a Primal-Kyogre ban if people think it will be too broken. One of the things Kyogre was missing was higher speed, and it can now achieve that with a Scarf. I'm leaning towards banning it, but would like some input from other people as well.

Q: Can I still use the base forms of these Pokemon and Mega Evolve them with their stones?
A: Sure, why not? It probably isn't a good idea, but I guess if you want to take advantage of Sableye's Prankster or Sharpedo's Speed Boost before Mega Evolving then it can maybe be a possible strategy.

Does this only apply to the legal ones, then? Why shouldn't gengar be able to hold its own stone?

Besides, being able to run other items doesn't matter. Maybe if the megas were banned and soul dew was legal they could, but as it is?
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Latias: 148-176 (40.7 - 48.4%) -- 70.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Whydon]

Q: Can I still use the base forms of these Pokemon and Mega Evolve them with their stones?
A: Sure, why not? It probably isn't a good idea, but I guess if you want to take advantage of Sableye's Prankster or Sharpedo's Speed Boost before Mega Evolving then it can maybe be a possible strategy.

Does this only apply to the legal ones, then? Why shouldn't gengar be able to hold its own stone?

Originally it is only supposed to apply to legal ones, yes. I tried keeping it as simple as possible. If Gengar was allowed to hold a Gengarite then at that point it would be "Mega Gengar is banned from holding items other than its stone", and then exceptions would have to start being made (ex. should Mega Ray be allowed without an item? Should we ban POgre or just let it hold a stone, etc.) I guess I should clarify that Gengarite and the other stones are banned as well.

 

[nightsitter]

I don't think it's necessarily bad to force certain Megas and Primals to mega evolve naturally if they turn out to be too powerful. For instance, banning Primal Groudon could mean banning immediate access to it in teambuilder. Just like banning Lucarionite in standard doesn't mean that Lucario is banned, banning P-Groudon in this meta doesn't have to mean banning Groudon with Red Orb.

In fact, I would recommend doing this with both Primals, both Mewtwos, and Mega Gengar.

 

[Whydon]

I don't think it's necessarily bad to force certain Megas and Primals to mega evolve naturally if they turn out to be too powerful. For instance, banning Primal Groudon could mean banning immediate access to it in teambuilder. Just like banning Lucarionite in standard doesn't mean that Lucario is banned, banning P-Groudon in this meta doesn't have to mean banning Groudon with Red Orb.

In fact, I would recommend doing this with both Primals, both Mewtwos, and Mega Gengar.

I won't object to this, I just figured it would be easier to enforce by just banning the Megas themselves. Also we need to take in things like team support since now you can use as many megas as you want on a team, so will the Mega Mewtwos and Primals still be broken with all of this new team support?

 

[nightsitter]

I won't object to this, I just figured it would be easier to enforce by just banning the Megas themselves. Also we need to take in things like team support since now you can use as many megas as you want on a team, so will the Mega Mewtwos and Primals still be broken with all of this new team support?

That's a good point about team support, but it also applies to the Mega Latis with Soul Dew. At this point, it's probably best to playtest things and see how it all turns out.

 

[Whydon]

Okay, after reading over these posts I think it will be best to allow banned megas to still be used if they are Mega-Evolved through natural means during battle, as in, using their base forms with their respective stones and evolving them during battle.

Of course, if some 'mons still prove to be overpowered even after this, they will be banned altogether from the metagame.

BTW I know these bans are sorta early from this, but I created this meta using only the old banlist, therefore a lot of stuff was sorta outdated.

 

[bp scrub]

This seems like a really fun meta idea, but the banlist seems a bit off. It seems a bit unfair to me to have the mega mewtwo's banned (they aren't that good in ubers tbh) when you are still allowing things pdon and Mmence which define ubers without a item.

Knock off spam ftw

Keep in mind that Megamence doesn't get straight buffs in this meta - if you want to use an item, you have to give up intimidate, which makes it much much easier for Mence to set up, while Mewtwo gains much more power and more speed without giving up anything.