Lunala Discussion

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Lunala
Ghost/Psychic
Abilities: Shadow Shield
HP: 137
Atk: 113
Def: 89
SpAtk: 137
SpDef: 107
Spe: 97

Level Up

L1 - Moongeist Beam
L1 - Moongeist Beam
L1 - Cosmic Power
L1 - Hypnosis
L1 - Teleport
L1 - Confusion
L7 - Night Shade
L13 - Confuse Ray
L19 - Air Slash
L23 - Shadow Ball
L31 - Moonlight
L37 - Night Daze
L43 - Magic Coat
L47 - Moonblast
L59 - Dream Eater
L61 - Phantom Force
L67 - Wide Guard
L73 - Hyper Beam

TMs

TM01 - Work Up
TM03 - Psyshock
TM04 - Calm Mind
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM19 - Roost
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM22 - Solar Beam
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
TM27 - Return
TM29 - Psychic
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM48 - Round
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM57 - Charge Beam
TM58 - Sky Drop
TM61 - Will-O-Wisp
TM62 - Acrobatics
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM76 - Fly
TM77 - Psych Up
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM90 - Substitute
TM92 - Trick Room
TM99 - Dazzling Gleam
TM100 - Confide
New Ability

Shadow Shield: Reduces the amount of damage the Pokémon takes while its HP is full.
New Move

Moongeist Beam: The user emits a sinister ray to attack the target. This move can buse on the target regardless of its Abilities. 100% accuracy [Ghost] 100 BP, Special.
 
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Pretty sure 137/89/107 bulk combined with Shadow Shield, 137 Sp. Attack and its very diverse movepool will make it too strong for OU, bad defensive typing or not.

I don't really have much experience in Ubers so I won't be able to comment too much on its viability there, but I imagine it probably face some issues from things like Giratina-O and Yveltal and Darkrai. At least none of them can really switch in reliably, since Lunala learns Moonblast for the two Dark types.
 
I'm not so sure. In Ubers, a simple set of Sub / CM / Moongeist Beam / Moonblast would offer it near perfect coverage and protection from status and sucker punch. It could possibly even forgo Moonblast for WoW and get away with it.
 
Groudon ex said:
I don't really have much experience in Ubers so I won't be able to comment too much on its viability there, but I imagine it probably face some issues from things like Giratina-O and Yveltal and Darkrai. At least none of them can really switch in reliably, since Lunala learns Moonblast for the two Dark types.
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Darkrai is now dead in Ubers.
 
Yeah, even with the dark type weakness, this thing is A rank Uber. They won't break through Shadow Shield reliably, and since this is our first non SR weak Multiscale-User, it's even easier to keep it intact.
 
Now that Darkrai's basically neutered, it's heavily possible that Lunala will be an extremely solid threat in Ubers. The typing is pretty ass but it's high base HP and Shadow Shield somewhat offsets that. It's movepool is absolutely ridiculous (lol will-o), meaning that it can basically run whatever it wants outside of moongeist/moonblast since that gives near perfect coverage. The one downside I see is priority from Gira-O and Yveltal will heavily deter it and its speed tier is rather underwhelming, nothing will like switching into this thing and finding out what possible moves it has.

I better see Magic coat antilead sets for this *sarcasm*
 
So if I'm reading correctly, Moongeist Beam has a built-in Moldbreaker effect.

Lugia is not going to like this. Heck, it might replace Lugia in some roles due to its different weaknesses while still having fantastic HP, fine bulk (especially on the special side), WoW to burn physical attackers, and Roost. Ironically, besides Sucker-Pursuit trappers, its worst enemy is probably going to be itself.
 
One of the bulkiest in the entire game factoring in Shadowsheild. Very versatile and can be a major threat. Yveltal murders this thing but Lunala is very dangerous and will be a force to be reckoned with between all of its assets. Sucker punch and dark types may be problems but it has ways to get around some of those.
 
Because Shadow Shield halves damage, it can be a pretty decent revenge killer:
Lunala
Modest Nature
EVS: 252 Spd, 252 Sp.Atk, 4 HP
Choice Scarf
Moongeist Beam
Psychic
Moonblast
Focus Blast/Ice Beam/Thunder

Take my opinion with a grain of salt because I don't play ubers, but it's just prediction.
 
Excellent mon, Ubers for sure. It's defensive typing is pretty lame, sure, but only 2 weaknesses with solid offensive STAB options isn't but so bad. Lunala also has so much raw bulk with 137/89/107 stats and Shadow Shield that it basically won't die to anything aside from STAB Ghost or Dark moves at full HP. Thing can even tank things like +1 Adamant Double Edge from Mega Salamence or +2 Xerneas Moonblast with just Shadow Shield - no bulk investment required. 97 Speed isn't that bad and puts it ahead of Rayquaza, and STAB Moongeist Beam off base 137 Spa will destroy most things combined with STAB Psyshock to crush special tanks. Its movepool is very impressive as well: reliable healing in Roost/Moonlight, support options in Wisp/TWave/Hypnosis/Roar/Trick Room, Calm Mind for boosting, loads of coverage options with Focus Blast, Moonblast, Thunder, Ice Beam...it has a ton of options in its toolkit. I could see it being able to do a lot. Darkrai getting shafted by the nerfbat also helps a ton.

Love this thing, it'll be a nice addition to the metagame.
 
The ability to hit both Lugia and Giratina super effectively with a Same Type Attack Bonus move, while at the same time bypassing the former's Multiscale, huh. This reminds me of something rather nostalgic. Lunala will definitely be the first Pokémon I'll try to use in both Übers and Anything Goes.

On another note...

+1 252+ SpA Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 186-219 (44.8 - 52.7%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO

Combining this with Calm Mind Lunala's ability to easily get past Lugia, Giratina, Clefable and Chansey/Blissey (via Substitute) makes me curious about how stall is going to survive in Übers and Anything Goes.
 
Then again Lugia isn't exactly a mon to use in stall-heavy metagame. If anything it thrives when the metagame is highly offensive.

The fact that Lunala seems to hard-counter Lugia isn't looking favorable for the bird, though.
 
I dont see this thing being huge tbh, like almost everything in Ubers gets Shadow Claw, Dark Pulse, Shadow Ball; Arceus ,Yveltal, Mewtwo, PDon, are so common and can very well include one of those moves if they need, a defensive mon with a crappy typing has never really worked in the long run, and Marshadow inclusion is not helping either.
 
Roxachronic said:
I dont see this thing being huge tbh, like almost everything in Ubers gets Shadow Claw, Dark Pulse, Shadow Ball; Arceus ,Yveltal, Mewtwo, PDon, are so common and can very well include one of those moves if they need, a defensive mon with a crappy typing has never really worked in the long run, and Marshadow inclusion is not helping either.
Click to expand...

It has higher offensive stats than Ho-Oh, and Ho-Oh has arguably the worse crappy typing. Not only is Lunala not weak at all to SR, it also cannot be trapped. If Ho-Oh sees use for both its offenses and its special bulk, then Lunala which straight outclasses Ho-Oh in both will be huge.

And let's not pretend that Shadow Claw is anywhere close to a STAB Moongeist Beam - it's not even half the base power.
 
TruthfulCake said:
It has higher offensive stats than Ho-Oh, and Ho-Oh has arguably the worse crappy typing. Not only is Lunala not weak at all to SR, it also cannot be trapped. If Ho-Oh sees use for both its offenses and its special bulk, then Lunala which straight outclasses Ho-Oh in both will be huge.

And let's not pretend that Shadow Claw is anywhere close to a STAB Moongeist Beam - it's not even half the base power.
Click to expand...

Who is pretending Shadow Claw is close to Moongeist Beam? I am pointing that Ubers having access to those moves makes Lunala viability drop, it does not have anything to do with it/them being better or worse than Moongeist Beam.

Ho-Oh has a purpose for serving as a check to specific mons, while also providing a blanket check to a good amount of physical attackers bar Pdon just by spamming Sacred Fire, like why whould you use Lunala? Solgaleo looks like a solid Xerneas check, and it is also better in checking Lugia since Lunala gets screwed up by Toxic.

Lunala straight outclassing Ho-Oh? I could be wrong and it could be good but this statement sounds too much.
 
Roxachronic said:
Who is pretending Shadow Claw is close to Moongeist Beam? I am pointing that Ubers having access to those moves makes Lunala viability drop, it does not have anything to do with it/them being better or worse than Moongeist Beam.

Ho-Oh has a purpose for serving as a check to specific mons, while also providing a blanket check to a good amount of physical attackers bar Pdon just by spamming Sacred Fire, like why whould you use Lunala? Solgaleo looks like a solid Xerneas check, and it is also better in checking Lugia since Lunala gets screwed up by Toxic.

Lunala straight outclassing Ho-Oh? I could be wrong and it could be good but this statement sounds too much.
Click to expand...

Other mon having Shadow Claw isn't any reason for Lunala's viability to drop. That would imply that Lunala is only viable for its Ghost coverage, or that Shadow Claw does the job of Moongeist Beam as a coverage. Moongeist Beam has a property that allows it to bypass Multiscale and other Lunala's Shadow Shield. Lunala is one of the best checks against other Lunala (outside of the likes of Yveltal). Due to its user's ability to hold Life Orb, Moongeist Beam is basically the strongest Ghost-type move you can have in the tier.

The offensive stats of Lunala outclasses those of Ho-Oh: 137 SpA and 97 Spe vs 130 Att and 90 Spe. The only relevant stat Ho-Oh has over Lunala is its SpD, but Shadow Shield more than makes up for it. Of course they will serve as checks for different things, but stat-wise Ho-Oh has nothing over Lunala.

Basically this thing looks more offensive to me than it is defensive. Just because its ability sounds defensive doesn't mean it's a defensive mon - it just means that it can go full-offense without any investment in bulk.

Edit: I may have understood your initial post wrong. I thought you were arguing that if an uber needs Ghost-type coverage, they can include Shadow Claw or Shadow Ball in their movesets. Instead, you were arguing that the widespread distribution of those moves which can hit Lunala for 4x effectiveness will drop its viability.

I really think just because a typing grants 4x weaknesses doesn't mean a mon will be less viable. Ho-Oh and Rayquaza are very viable, and they are weak to very common attacks in the tier.
 
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Roxachronic said:
I dont see this thing being huge tbh, like almost everything in Ubers gets Shadow Claw, Dark Pulse, Shadow Ball; Arceus ,Yveltal, Mewtwo, PDon, are so common and can very well include one of those moves if they need, a defensive mon with a crappy typing has never really worked in the long run, and Marshadow inclusion is not helping either.
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Out of the things you mentioned, only Arceus (Shadow Claw for EKiller) and Yveltal (which is a check certainly) actually run Ghost or Dark moves commonly. Marshadow also can't switch into Lunala at all due to being weak to both STABs.

Lunala can also survive most unSTAB Ghost or Dark moves with ease if Shadow Shield is up. This includes LO Arceus Shadow Claw (unboosted) and LO Mewtwo Shadow Ball, and if neither of those mons KO they will be crippled or KOed in retaliation.
 
Roxachronic said:
Who is pretending Shadow Claw is close to Moongeist Beam? I am pointing that Ubers having access to those moves makes Lunala viability drop, it does not have anything to do with it/them being better or worse than Moongeist Beam.
Click to expand...


One thing you're badly underestimating is Will-o-Wisp. It turns otherwise-solid counters like Yveltal and non-Lum Arceus into shaky checks.
 
Fireburn said:
Out of the things you mentioned, only Arceus (Shadow Claw for EKiller) and Yveltal (which is a check certainly) actually run Ghost or Dark moves commonly. Marshadow also can't switch into Lunala at all due to being weak to both STABs.

Lunala can also survive most unSTAB Ghost or Dark moves with ease if Shadow Shield is up. This includes LO Arceus Shadow Claw (unboosted) and LO Mewtwo Shadow Ball, and if neither of those mons KO they will be crippled or KOed in retaliation.
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That is because there is very little reason for them to run those moves currently, even without taking that into account there seems to be a lot of things in the meta that this will struggle with, especially the already prevalent EKiller Arceus, Mewtwo and the incoming Marshadow, as a premier wall I dont see this outclassing Lugia, less speed and more glaring weaknesses, since altough Lugia has a nice plethora of them it doesnt have a x4 one, let alone two of them.

I find difficult to use it tbh.
 
Roxachronic said:
That is because there is very little reason for them to run those moves currently, even without taking that into account there seems to be a lot of things in the meta that this will struggle with, especially the already prevalent EKiller Arceus, Mewtwo and the incoming Marshadow, as a premier wall I dont see this outclassing Lugia, less speed and more glaring weaknesses, since altough Lugia has a nice plethora of them it doesnt have a x4 one, let alone two of them.

I find difficult to use it tbh.
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Thinking of Lunala as a potential rival to Lugia's viability is questionable. Other than their abilities, these two have almost nothing in common. Lunala isn't supposed to be used as a defensive mon (although it might be viable for it) because its offensive stats and typing are excellent. Ghost has the best neutral coverage in the game now (better than Dragon is right now). Barring Normal Arceus and the pink blobs, Normal-type mons are not common at all in Ubers. Lunala can deal with the pink blobs with Psyshock, and Moongeist Beam/Moonblast have pretty much perfect coverage. Psychic mons are quite common in Ubers too, so the Ghost STAB is absolutely valuable.

It is a solid offensive mon. It may not outclass Lugia in defensive capabilities, but why should it to be viable?
 
TruthfulCake said:
Thinking of Lunala as a potential rival to Lugia's viability is questionable. Other than their abilities, these two have almost nothing in common. Lunala isn't supposed to be used as a defensive mon (although it might be viable for it) because its offensive stats and typing are excellent. Ghost has the best neutral coverage in the game now (better than Dragon is right now). Barring Normal Arceus and the pink blobs, Normal-type mons are not common at all in Ubers. Lunala can deal with the pink blobs with Psyshock, and Moongeist Beam/Moonblast have pretty much perfect coverage. Psychic mons are quite common in Ubers too, so the Ghost STAB is absolutely valuable.

It is a solid offensive mon. It may not outclass Lugia in defensive capabilities, but why should it to be viable?
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I should have explained myself better, the point of it not outclassing Lugia was more an example pf it finding its place to excel at a niche than its role already being relegated to it being a wall, so sorry about that.

I think my problem with it is like it seems difficult to begin to wreak havoc with it, for example when talking about offensive Ghost mons Marshadow seems to be ahead of it, much better STAB combination, priority if needed, excellent speed.

Its immunities are nice but the mons that it could have been abused, like ESpeed users, usually outrun it and have Ghost or Dark coverage, mainly Arceus or Deoxys Attack.

It is not checking or doing anything in particular that seems outstanding, Ghost STAB is awesome and its ability is indeed good, but I find it lacking a little when trying to abuse either of them.
 
TruthfulCake said:
It has higher offensive stats than Ho-Oh, and Ho-Oh has arguably the worse crappy typing. Not only is Lunala not weak at all to SR, it also cannot be trapped. If Ho-Oh sees use for both its offenses and its special bulk, then Lunala which straight outclasses Ho-Oh in both will be huge.
Click to expand...

Uh, I don't see how Ho-Oh's typing can be called "crappy" in any sense. It can only be called "excellent" (maybe even second best next to Marshadow's) offensively, and at least "very good" defensively.

I think Lunala will be a nightmare for stall to face, as explained in my previous post. While against offense, its Shadow Shield Ability will be used in a manner that much more closely resembles the way Dragonite's Multiscale is used in the Generations V and VI OU metagames, rather than the way Lugia uses this Ability. That is, Shadow Shield will be used to allow Lunala to take a hit it would normally not be able to, while using that turn to either set up or retaliate, rather than for the purpose of allowing it to comfortably take boosted hits before eliminating the opponent's Pokémon's stat boosts with a pseudo-Hazing move, while constantly using Roost to reactivate its Ability, often poison-stalling the opponent at the same time, and other things Lugia uses Multiscale to do, especially with the Ghost/Psychic-type Pokémon's two 4x weaknesses combined with its lower Speed compared to Lugia. Thus, I do not see much reason to compare Lunala to Lugia (rather than Dragonite), despite the fact that their Abilities technically function identically.

Also, two fun calculations:

+1 252+ Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Shadow Shield Lunala: 228-268 (54.8 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. -1 200 HP / 0 SpD Mega Rayquaza: 421-496 (104.9 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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