Ludicolo (GP 2/2)

[Level 51]

.dancin

[Overview]

<p>With a respectable base 90 Special Attack stat, great coverage, access to Fake Out, and, most importantly, Swift Swim, it's no wonder that Ludicolo is everyone's favorite dancing pineapple. Ludicolo is one of the tier's better Swift Swim users, not only capable of dealing out constant damage with its solid STAB coverage, but also being able to annihilate Rotom-W and Gastrodon, two of rain's biggest counters.</p>

[SET]
name: Rain Attacker
move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Fake Out / Ice Beam
move 4: Ice Beam / Protect
item: Life Orb
nature: Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 180 SpD / 76 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is probably Ludicolo's best set; it allows Ludicolo to deliver quick and powerful hits under rain. Ludicolo's main weapon is Surf, which can take out most opponents Ludicolo might face; however, Hydro Pump deals more damage without the risk of potentially harming Ludicolo's partners with "friendly fire", albeit at the cost of accuracy. Giga Drain is a good secondary STAB move, providing Ludicolo with a way to hit Pokemon such as Rotom-W that resist Surf, and helping to keep Ludicolo healthy. Fake Out keeps momentum going and provides some support to Ludicolo's teammates. It's also essential for Ludicolo's survival, as it keeps Ludicolo's counters occupied while its teammate take them out. Ice Beam rounds out Ludicolo's already great coverage, allowing it to hit Dragon- and Grass-types super effectively. Protect is a slightly odd option on such an offensive Pokemon, but it helps keep Ludicolo alive while teammates take out its would-be counters. It also helps in stalling out precious turns of Tailwind and Trick Room that would take away Ludicolo's speed advantage. Finally, Life Orb is used to increase Ludicolo's damage output significantly.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs given optimize Ludicolo's attacking power, letting it deal as much damage as possible before your opponent has an opportunity to pull out a counter. 76 Speed EVs are all Ludicolo needs to outspeed maximum Speed Shaymin-S under rain. The remaining 180 EVs to go into HP, improving Ludicolo's chances against common threats such as Latios and Kyurem-B, which can destroy Ludicolo easily given the chance. Ludicolo may run 176 Speed EVs to outrun the uncommon but lethal Deoxys-A. Max EV investment into Special Attack and Speed with Timid Nature is a real option to ensure no surprise Choice Scarf Pokemon like Scarf Genesect or Scarf Terrakion would prematurely eliminate Ludicolo.</p>

<p>Ludicolo doesn't have many other options in terms of moves because its coverage is already so stellar. However, Focus Blast offers the necessary super effective coverage to inflict major damage to Ferrothorn, Abomasnow, Kyurem-Black, all three of which would otherwise shrug off Ludicolo's special offense. Scald could be used as a more reliable targeting STAB move. The chance of burn is also great for aiding teams which are weak to physical threats.</p>

<p>Politoed is the best teammate for Ludicolo, as it sets up rain and can increase Ludicolo's damage output with Helping Hand. Hitmontop is also noteworthy due to its ability to scare off other weather setters, such as Abomasnow and Tyranitar, as well as its ability to take out some counters to Ludicolo, such as Kyurem-B, with Close Combat. Hydreigon is a great wallbreaker to get rid of Kyurem-B, Cresselia, Dusknoir, Ferrothorn, and other walls hoping to end Ludicolo's sweep. Finally, Amoonguss, Jirachi, and Togekiss can direct attacks away from Ludicolo with Follow Me or Rage Powder, as most of Ludicolo's checks and counters can only harm it through targeting attacks. Of these, Amoonguss is usually the best option as it resists Ludicolo's Surfs, which can otherwise wear down Ludicolo's teammates quickly. Togekiss and Jirachi still comes in handy for tanking super effective Bug- and Flying-type moves, respectively.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Ludicolo has a very interesting movepool that is capable of surprising opponents. While somewhat gimmicky, Sunny Day can be used to give Ludicolo a place on sun teams, outspeeding normally faster Pokemon with Swift Swim in order to set up sun for its team. Teeter Dance is also an interesting option for support, especially in Doubles, where it can confuse both opponents by launching the fastest Teeter Dance in the game. A bulkier set could also be considered, taking advantage of Ludicolo's other ability, Rain Dish. When combined with Leftovers and Leech Seed, Ludicolo becomes great for rain stall. However, this set is usually outclassed by offensive sets which take out opposing Pokemon more efficiently. In terms of held items, Lum Berry is worth considering as it stops Thunder Wave from affecting Ludicolo too greatly. For example, Ludicolo can take a Thunder Wave from Thundurus, then set up a Substitute to prevent further status. A Sitrus Berry could help Ludicolo take another hit and avoid some 2HKOs, though a more offensive item is usually better. Finally, a Tanga Berry can catch opponents by surprise and let Ludicolo survive a hit from Genesect.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Anything that gets rid of rain are good choices for stopping Ludicolo, ridding it of its Rain support; Abomasnow is particularly difficult for Ludicolo to eliminate on its own as it removes Rain with Hail. Within Rain, Kingdra naturally outruns Ludicolo and can finish it off with powerful STAB Dragon-type moves. Toxicroak switches into Ludicolo with relative impunity thanks to its immunity to Ludicolo's Surf and resistances to Giga Drain. With the aid of a Choice Scarf, Genesect outspeeds Ludicolo even under Rain, and can decimate it with a Download-boosted U-turn or Bug Buzz.</p>

<p>Cresselia, Dusknoir, Ferrothorn, and any other bulky Pokemon not weak to Ludicolo's attacks can take hits from it and retaliate by ending its sweep, usually with Thunder Wave or Trick Room. Cresselia is also known for summoning Sun with Sunny Day. Kyurem and Kyurem-B are solid switch-ins to Ludicolo, as well, resisting both Ludicolo's STAB moves and is not weak to Ice Beam. Finally, Thundurus can cripple Ludicolo permanently with a Prankster Thunder Wave, but it must be wary of Ice Beam.</p>

 

[Laga]

Slash Hydro Pump in first slot pls; some Rain teams don't like it when you damage yourself, and LO Hydro Pump in rain can snipe down pokes one at a time quite effectively.

I don't think Water Gem is that efficient, since LO let's it have a boosted Giga Drain, and Absorb Bulb is more efficient for hardcore Surf spam.

Mention some more Teammates in Additional Comments. Tell us about things like Politoed for Rain and things that deal with the list of Checks and Counters you have made; no need to know who your counters are without knowing how to deal with em ;p

I doubt you should mention Energy Ball; Giga Drain is basically the same thing but heals you.

Edit: also mention in Overview that it deals awesomely with Rotom-W and Gastrodon, the most popular rain "counters".

Edit 2: I approve if you make these changes.

QC Approved 1/3

 

[Stratos]

Please no absorb bulb it is the worst

I plan on testing a swift swim utility set with things like fake out (the fastest!) teeter dance scald etc so i'll get back to you on that

i'd also argue that ludi is a better rain counter under rain: its own STAB is boosted, it can outspeed rain's scarfers or faster pokes (DRAGONS) and it still 4x resists water so youre not breaking with hydro pumps, so scrap Sunny Day completely

Those EVs cannot possibly be the best, i'll run some calcs and get back to you after i shower but that speed is entirely unnecessary when it's not outrunning anything significant like Kingdra/Kabutops are (speed tying loom outside of rain is not worth the major loss of bulk)

the only items i'd slash alongside LO are maybe Ice Gem (252+ SpA Ice Gem Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 288-340 (88.34 - 104.29%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO, Fake Out: 8.28 - 9.81%) (252+ SpA Ice Gem Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 244-288 (81.06 - 95.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, Fake Out: 8.97 - 10.63%) or mystic water; i'd like another qc member's opinion about ice gem tho, it might be too situational.

 

[nyttyn]

IMO Ice Gem is way too situational when Ludicolio is already suffering from the same problems with no-item power that Kingdra suffers, especially since Latias is really the only relevant thing Ice Gem Ice Beam nails - and even that isn't a OHKO!

For Checks and Counters: I would mention Kyurem-B as really messing up Ludicolio's day, as he only takes at worst Neutral from Ice Beam (252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 126-149 (32.22 - 38.1%) -- 97.56% chance to 3HKO) and in return deals massive damage (252+ Atk Kyurem-B Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 237-279 (79.26 - 93.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, and that's without a gem. Gem or HH boost is OHKO.). Especially Power Herb Kyurem-B (252+ Atk Kyurem-B (Freeze Shock) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 412-486 (137.79 - 162.54%) -- guaranteed OHKO). Also I wound mention Tornadus and Shaymin-S as checks - while both are OHKO'd by Ice Beam, Tornadus can OHKO with Acrobatics and Shaymin-S can get close with unboosted Air Slash (252+ SpA Shaymin-S Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ludicolo: 254-300 (84.94 - 100.33%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO). Finally, mention Thundurus in checks and counters, as Prankster Thunder Wave can instantly cripple Ludicolo beyond repair.

 

[Laga]

I think Ice Gem is a bit too situational (doesn't really do much other than hit a few dragons) but that is what Other Options is for \o/

 

[Mizuhime]

Mention Rain Dish along with Leech seed in the OO and Slash Hydropump behind surf in the main set. Also mention the good, but obvious teammates that Ludicolo has. Then you will get my stamp

 

[Level 51]

implemented all these changes. i think.

 

[Joim]

QC Approved 2/3

get writing

 

[Laga]

Remember to use <p> text here </p> because that's how we do it y0 :]

 

[Level 51]

am ready for GP, lets get it

 

[tehy]

You seem to think that it's 2 qc, 2 gp, and then 1 QC.

To be quite frank, i'm pretty sure that's not how it works.

But i'll drop an amcheck anyhow, since 3rd QC's usually don't change prose anyhow, and if they do then w/e

amcheck

[Overview]

<p>With a respectable base 90 Special Attack, great coverage, access to Fake Out and, most importantly, Swift Swim, it's no wonder that Ludicolo is everyone's favorite dancing pineapple. Ludicolo is one of the tier's better Swift Swimmers, not only dealing out constant damage with its solid STAB coverage but also annihilating Rotom-W and Gastrodon, two of Rain's biggest counters.</p>

[SET]
name: Rain Sweeper
move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Fake Out / Ice Beam
move 4: Ice Beam / Protect
item: Life Orb / Absorb Bulb
nature: Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 180 SpD / 76 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Probably Ludicolo's best set, this set aims for Ludicolo to deliver quick and powerful damage under Rain. Ludicolo's main weapon is Surf, taking out most opponents Ludicolo might face, while Hydro Pump is useful for damage without the potentially harmful friendly fire Surf brings. Giga Drain is not only a good secondary STAB move, but also provides reliable targeted damage and helps to keep Ludicolo healthy, while sparing its teammates from harm. Fake Out keeps momentum going and provides some support to teammates; it's also essential for Ludicolo's survival as it keeps its counters occupied while its teammate take ithem out. Ice Beam rounds out Ludicolo's already great coverage, allowing it to hit Dragons and Grass-types super-effectively, as well as providing a way for Ludicolo to hit Ferrothorn, Kyurem-Black and the like. Protect is a slightly odd option on such an offensive Pokemon as Ludicolo, but it helps to keep Ludicolo alive while teammates take out its would-be counters, as well as stalling out precious turns of Tailwind and Trick Room. Life Orb is great to increase Ludicolo's damage output significantly, while Absorb Bulb provides the best overall damage output should Ludicolo have an opportunity to get hit by a weak Water-type move.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs given optimize Ludicolo's attacking power, letting it deal as much damage as possible before your opponent has an opportunity to pull out a counter. 76 Speed is all Ludicolo needs to outspeed maximum Speed Shaymin-Sky under Rain, allowing the last 180 EVs to go into Ludicolo's already respectable Special Defense, improving its chances against common Sspecial threats like Latios, Dragonite and Genesect, which can destroy Ludicolo easily given the chance, as well as lowering the damage Ludicolo takes when a teammate activates its Absorb Bulb (typically with Surf).</p>

<p>Ludicolo doesn't have many other options in terms of moves, because its coverage is already so stellar; however, Scald could be used as a more reliable targeted STAB. The chance of a burn is also great for aiding teams which are weak to Pphysical threats.</p>

<p>Capable of setting up Rain, further increasing Ludicolo's damage output with Helping Hand and activating its Absorb Bulb with Surf, there probably isn't a better teammate for Ludicolo than Politoed. Hitmontop is also noteworthy for scaring off other weather setters like Abomasnow and Tyranitar, as well as taking out some counters like Kyurem-Black with Close Combat. Hydreigon is a great wallbreaker to get rid of Kyurem-Black, Cresselia, Dusknoir, Ferrothorn and other walls hoping to end Ludicolo's sweep. Finally, Amoonguss, Jirachi and Togekiss can direct attacks away from Ludicolo with Follow Me or Rage Powder, since most of Ludicolo's checks and counters can only harm it through single-targeted attacks. Of these, Amoonguss is usually the best option as it resists Ludicolo's Surfs, which can wear down its teammates fast.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Ludicolo has a very interesting movepool capable of pulling some surprises on opponents. While somewhat gimmicky, Sunny Day can be used to give Ludicolo a place on Sun teams, outspeeding normally faster Pokemon with Swift Swim in order to set up Sun for its team. Teeter Dance is also an interesting option for support, especially in Doubles, where it can confuse both opponents by launching the fastest Teeter Dance in the game. A bulkier set could also be considered, taking advantage of its other ability, Rain Dish. When combined with Leftovers and Leech Seed, Ludicolo becomes great for Rain stall. However, this set is usually outclassed by offensive sets which take out opposing Pokemon more efficiently. In terms of held items, Lum Berry is worth considering as it stops Thunder Wave from affecting Ludicolo too greatly. In tandem with Substitute, Ludicolo can take a Thunder Wave from Thundurus, then set up a Substitute to prevent further status. A Sitrus Berry could help Ludicolo take another hit and avoid some 2HKOs, though a more offensive item is usually better. Finally, a Tanga Berry can catch opponents by surprise and let Ludicolo survive a hit from Scizor or Genesect.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Tyranitar, Abomasnow, or really anything that gets rid of rain are nominalgood choices for stopping Ludicolo by starving it of Rain support. Genesect outspeeds Ludicolo even under Rain with the aid of a Choice Scarf, and can decimate Ludicolo with a Download-boosted U-turn or Bug Buzz. Cresselia, Dusknoir, Ferrothorn and any other bulky Pokemon not weak to Ludicolo's attacks can take hits from Ludicolo and retaliate by ending Ludicolo's sweep, usually with Thunder Wave or Trick Room. Finally, Thundurus can cripple Ludicolo permanently with a Prankster Thunder Wave, but must be wary of Ice Beam.</p>

comments

Comments:
Saying Giga Drain provides reliable targeted damage already means it shields your teammates from harm, right? No need to say both things.
Don't need to capitalize physical or special. Saying Special Attack or Special Defense, you still need to capitalize, but not when saying special attackers or something.
Hitmontop also intimidates, which is nice since it's got special bulk too, right?
Nominal means: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nominal probably not what you meant?
Why is your AC 3 paragraphs, anyhow? It's not that long and it could easily be one or even two (the middle one is two sentences, so yeah.)

 

[Stratos]

WHY IS ABSORB BULB STILL IN THIS ANALYSIS seriously remove all mentions of absorb bulb please


-Other than that, why are those 180 extra EVs placed in SpD instead of HP? The difference in special bulk is minimal, but HP is mixed bulk. (Gene's +0 Bug Buzz is a 2hko either way, while Latios Gem DM goes from 75% ohko to 93.75% ohko, for example; however,
-Change set name to Rain Attacker, since as Zach likes to remind us you don't sweep in doubles unless you're against a bad opponent

looks good besides those fixes though

and tehy is right, you go for qc 3 before your GP

 

[Level 51]

amcheck implemented, i refuse to delete absorb bulb but i changed all the other stuff.

 

[tehy]

Oh yeah, that reminds me

Edit: that was...the other analysis i checked...

GAH

 

[Level 51]

in what way did I use either of those

 

[The Quasar]

It seems obvious but is not mentioned the use of rain dance. Usually in a rain team is one of three pokemon that has this move.

 

[Level 51]

er, this is doubles (ie drizzleswim isnt banned) and ludicolo has massive 4mss :|

 

[Arkian]

.dancin

.gpin

GP Check

ADD
REMOVE
COMMENTS

diff

[Overview]

<p>With a respectable base 90 Special Attack, great coverage, access to Fake Out, and, most importantly, Swift Swim, it's no wonder that Ludicolo is everyone's favorite dancing pineapple. Ludicolo is one of the tier's better Swift Swimm users, not only dealing out constant damage with its solid STAB coverage,(AC) but also annihilating Rotom-W and Gastrodon, two of Rrain's biggest counters.</p>

[SET]
name: Rain Attacker
move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Fake Out / Ice Beam
move 4: Ice Beam / Protect
item: Life Orb / Absorb Bulb
nature: Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 180 SpD / 76 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>PThis is probably Ludicolo's best set, this se;(semi) it aims for Ludicolo to deliver quick and powerful damage under Rrain. Ludicolo's main weapon is Surf, taking out most opponents Ludicolo might face, whilebut Hydro Pump is useful for damage without the potentially harmful friendly fire Surf brings. Giga Drain is not only a good secondary STAB move, but alsoas it provides reliable targeted damage and helps keep Ludicolo healthy. Fake Out keeps momentum going and provides some support to teammates; it's also essential for Ludicolo's survival,(AC) as it keeps itLudicolo's (This might seem redundant, but it is needed because the subjects the pronoun matches might be confusing to the reader.) counters occupied while its teammate take them out. Ice Beam rounds out Ludicolo's already great coverage, allowing it to hit Dragons-(hyphen) and Grass-types super-(RH) effectively, as well as providing a way for Ludicolo to hit Ferrothorn, Kyurem-Black,(AC) and the like. Protect is a slightly an odd option on such an offensive Pokemon as Ludicolo, but it helps to keep Ludicolo alive while teammates take out its would-be counters, as well as stalling out precious turns of Tailwind and Trick Room. Life Orb is great to significantly increase Ludicolo's damage output significantly, whilebut Absorb Bulb provides the best overall damage output should Ludicolo have an opportunity to get hit by a weak Water-type move. (The item explanation should be AC [mention it after the EV spread].)</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs given optimize Ludicolo's attacking power, letting it deal as much damage as possible before your opponent has an opportunity to pull out a counter. 76 Speed iEVs are all Ludicolo needs to outspeed maximum Speed Shaymin-Sky under Rrain, allow.(AP) The remaining the last 180 EVs to go into HP, improving Ludicolo's chances against common threats likesuch as Latios, Dragonite and Genesect, which can destroy Ludicolo easily if given the chance, as well as lowering the damage Ludicolo takes when a teammate activates its Absorb Bulb (typically with Surf). (This is where the item explanation would go.) Ludicolo doesn't have many other options in terms of moves,(RC) because its coverage is already so stellar; however, Scald could be used as a more reliable targeted STAB. The chance of a burn is also great for aiding teams which are weak to physical threats.</p>

<p>Capable ofPolitoed is the best teammate for Ludicolo, as it settings up Rrain, further increasinges Ludicolo's damage output with Helping Hand, and activatinges its Absorb Bulb with Surf, there probably isn't a better teammate for Ludicolo than Politoed. Hitmontop is also noteworthy for scaring off other weather setters likesuch as Abomasnow and Tyranitar, as well as taking out some counters likesuch as Kyurem-Black with Close Combat. Hydreigon is a great wallbreaker to get rid of Kyurem-Black, Cresselia, Dusknoir, Ferrothorn,(AC) and other walls hoping to end Ludicolo's sweep. Finally, Amoonguss, Jirachi,(AC) and Togekiss can direct attacks away from Ludicolo with Follow Me or Rage Powder, asince most of Ludicolo's checks and counters can only harm it through single-targeted attacks. Of these, Amoonguss is usually the best option as it resists Ludicolo's Surfs, which can wear down its teammates fast.</p> A few things to note here:

• Weather conditions (rain, sun, etc.) are not capitalize (only capitalize "hail" if talking about the actual move, not the weather condition)
• You don't need to say the entire name of a Pokemon if it is a forme of another Pokemon (Kyurem-Black < Kyurem-B -- Shaymin-Sky < Shaymin-S)
• Smogon uses the serial comma (the one that goes before "like") (Bob, Jane, and Martha talked over coffee)
• Avoid using the words "since" and "like"; replace the former with "as" or "because", and the latter with "such as" (unless referring to "similar to...", if so, keep it as "like"
• Click here to learn when the word "while" should be used

[Other Options]

<p>Ludicolo has a very interesting movepool that is capable of pulling some surprises oning opponents. While somewhat gimmicky, Sunny Day can be used to give Ludicolo a place on Ssun teams, outspeeding normally faster Pokemon with Swift Swim in order to set up Ssun for its team. Teeter Dance is also an interesting option for support, especially in Doubles, where it can confuse both opponents by launching the fastest Teeter Dance in the game (with Swift Swim activated, of course). A bulkier set could also be considered, taking advantage of its other ability, Rain Dish. W,(AC) which when combined with Leftovers and Leech Seed, enables Ludicolo to becomes great for R a solid Pokemon on teams that utilize rain stall. However, this set is usually outclassed by offensive sets which take out opposing Pokemon more efficiently. In terms of held items, Lum Berry is worth considering as it stops Thunder Wave from affecting Ludicolo too greatly. In tandem with Substitute, Ludicolo can take a Thunder Wave from Thundurus, then set up a Substitute to prevent further status. A Sitrus Berry could help Ludicolo take another hit and avoid some 2HKOs, though a more offensive item is usually better. Finally, a Tanga Berry can catch opponents by surprise and let Ludicolo survive a hit from Scizor or Genesect.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Tyranitar, Abomasnow, or really anything that gets rid of rain are good choices for stopping Ludicolo by starvridding it of Rrain support. With the aid of a Choice Scarf, Genesect outspeeds Ludicolo even under Rrain with the aid of a Choice Scarf, and can decimate Ludicoloit with a Download-boosted U-turn or Bug Buzz. Cresselia, Dusknoir, Ferrothorn,(AC) and any other bulky Pokemon not weak to Ludicolo's attacks can take hits from Ludicolo and retaliate by ending Ludicolo'its sweep, usually with Thunder Wave or Trick Room. Finally, Thundurus can cripple Ludicolo permanently with a Prankster Thunder Wave,(AC) but it must be wary of Ice Beam.</p>

@Level 51: great job! Comments can be found in my amcheck :)

GP Approved 1/2

 

[Laga]

you definitely need to remove Absorb Bulb. Surf spam teams are completely helpless against well built teams simply because it's so fucking predictable, and Absorb Bulb requires you to run full Surf spam since you have a member using Surf.

E: And it sux

 

[Stratos]

log

14:18 nyttyn: hey
14:18 nyttyn: 09:25 Level-51 nyttyn: does absorb bulb deserve a slash on ludicolo
14:18 nyttyn: no.
14:18 Pwnemon: he's asleep now but
14:18 Pwnemon: good answer
14:18 Pwnemon: eggy you agree too right
14:18 Pwnemon: absorb bulb is ass
14:19 Eggy: yea
14:19 Eggy: to unreliable
14:19 Laga has joined (Mibbit@synIRC-9A6F5F65.dk.customer.tdc.net)
14:19 Laga: absorb bulb
14:19 Laga: is
14:19 Eggy: why does pocket have the most fucked up hours ever
14:19 Laga: SO GOOD
14:19 Laga: ;p
14:19 Pwnemon: idk
14:19 Pwnemon: youd think someone who was est
14:19 Pwnemon: wouldnt be on from like midnight to 6 am est
14:20 Pwnemon: laga youre being sarcastic right
14:20 Laga: no.
14:20 Laga: srs bsns
14:20 Pwnemon: its a 20% boost from life orb
14:20 Pwnemon: in exchange for jumping through a million hoops to use it
14:20 Laga: STRONGSTRONK
14:20 Pwnemon: first, you have to have another teammate run sucky surf
14:20 Laga: lol ofc im not serious
14:20 Pwnemon: then you have to not switch
14:21 Pwnemon: o ok
14:21 nyttyn: and if you get forced out ever its gone
14:21 Pwnemon: because joim and level-51 legitimately think it's good ¬_¬
14:21 Pwnemon: level-51 refuses to remove it from ludi analysis
14:21 Laga: LOL

move surf to ac too and replace it with scald. you really don't want to hit your own mons unless you're using water absorb, storm drain or absorb bulb mons too, and even then its probably going to be a bad idea to hurt the rest of your team. also these combos are incredibly dumb and i wouldnt be caught dead recommending them

plsplsplsplspls remove absorb bulb

 

[nyttyn]

09:25Level-51nyttyn: does absorb bulb deserve a slash on ludicolo

no.

no it does not.

you need to make Ludciolio take a water type attack, and you need to make it take that attack before it itself attacks, which is nearly impossible because the damn mexican pineapple duck outspeeds almost everything in the game. You need to take that attack because otherwise you literally have no item boost, which is huge due to the fact that Surf is diminished in power and Giga Drain isn't exactly great BP wise. And even then if you EVER get forced out or hit with clear smog then your boost is gone.

all this for 20% more then life orb.

OO at the very, absolute best, and even then I disagree.

 

[Nollan]

This is a bit of a pretty bad time to say this, giving we are already in GP Approvals, but Ludicolo is (imo) deserving of a bulky Goodstuff set for checking weather. It can launch Sunny Day as mentioned in OO, and can use Giga Drain to hit Tyranitar and Politoed fairly hard with some investment. The sort of set I had in mind was:

Ludicolo @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 116 SpA / 48 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald / Protect
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam
- Sunny Day

Simply put, the spread allows you to live the typical Fighting Gem Close Combat from Hitmontop, and Fire Gem Overheat from Volcarona (which is more powerful than Volcarona's Bug Buzz and Latios's Dragon Gem Draco Meteor), with the rest poured into Special Attack for offensive ability. To put its offenses into perspective, Giga Drain does 31.77 - 38.02% to a 252/252+ Politoed, and Scald does 29.7 - 35.64% to Tyranitar in Sand, with the additional possibility to inflict a burn. While nothing amazing, add in the fact that Politoed cannot touch it, it makes a great Rain counter. Tyranitar does 64.9 - 76.82% with Crunch, a guarenteed 2HKO factoring in Sand damage and Sitrus Berry. Basically, its a bulky support set that can also dent things, meaning it will still have value in non-weather matches. If others disagree that it should be up there, then too bad I guess, but I at least wanted it mentioned.

 

[Level 51]

@Pwnemon and anti-AB guys: Absorb Bulb has been completely eliminated.
@Rohail17: accepted some of the changes, but some of them made no sense. In particular, changing my "while"s to "but"s changed the meaning of the sentence, as well as "to significantly increase" (splitting an infinitive). Thanks for the check though!

ready for final GP check

 

[-Tsunami-]

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[Overview]

<p>With a respectable base 90 Special Attack stat, great coverage, access to Fake Out, (comma) and, most importantly, Swift Swim, it's no wonder that Ludicolo is everyone's favorite dancing pineapple. Ludicolo is one of the tier's better Swift Swim users, not only capable of dealing out constant damage with its solid STAB coverage, but also being able to annihilatinge Rotom-W and Gastrodon, two of rain's biggest counters.</p>

[SET]
name: Rain Attacker
move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Fake Out / Ice Beam
move 4: Ice Beam / Protect
item: Life Orb
nature: Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 180 SpD / 76 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is probably Ludicolo's best set; it aims forllows Ludicolo to deliver quick and powerful damagehits under rain. Ludicolo's main weapon is Surf, takingwhich can take out most opponents Ludicolo might face, while Hydro Pump is useful f; (semicolon) however, (comma) Hydro Pump deals more damage without the risk of potentially harmful friendly fire Surf bringsing Ludicolo's partners with "friendly fire", (comma) albeit at the cost of accuracy. Giga Drain is a good secondary STAB move, as it provides reliable targeted damageing Ludicolo with a way to hit Pokemon such as Rotom-W that resist Surf, (comma) and helps keep Ludicolo healthy. Fake Out keeps momentum going and provides some support to Ludicolo's teammates. It's also essential for Ludicolo's survival, as it keeps Ludicolo's counters occupied while its teammate take them out. Ice Beam rounds out Ludicolo's already great coverage, allowing it to hit Dragon- and Grass-types super effectively, as well asnd also providinges a way for Ludicolo to hit Ferrothorn, Kyurem-B, and the like. Protect is a slightly odd option on such an offensive Pokemon, but it helps to keep Ludicolo alive while teammates take out its would-be counters, as well as. It also helps in stalling out precious turns of Tailwind and Trick Room. Finally, Life Orb is greatused to increase Ludicolo's damage output significantly.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs given optimize Ludicolo's attacking power, letting it deal as much damage as possible before your opponent has an opportunity to pull out a counter. 76 Speed EVs are all Ludicolo needs to outspeed maximum Speed Shaymin-S under rain. The remaining 180 EVs to go into HP, improving Ludicolo's chances against common threats such as Latios, Dragonite and Genesect, which can destroy Ludicolo easily given the chance. Ludicolo doesn't have many other options in terms of moves because its coverage is already so stellar; however, Scald could be used as a more reliable targeted STABting STAB move. The chance of a burn is also great for aiding teams which are weak to physical threats.</p>

<p>Politoed is the best teammate for Ludicolo, as it sets up rain and can increases Ludicolo's damage output with Helping Hand. Hitmontop is also noteworthy fordue to its ability to scaringe off other weather setters like, (comma) such as Abomasnow and Tyranitar, as well as taking out some countersits ability to take out some counters to Ludicolo, (comma) such as Kyurem-B, (comma) with Close Combat. Hydreigon is a great wallbreaker to get rid of Kyurem-B, Cresselia, Dusknoir, Ferrothorn, and other walls hoping to end Ludicolo's sweep. Finally, Amoonguss, Jirachi, and Togekiss can direct attacks away from Ludicolo with Follow Me or Rage Powder, as most of Ludicolo's checks and counters can only harm it through single-targetedtargetting attacks. Of these, Amoonguss is usually the best option as it resists Ludicolo's Surfs, which can otherwise wear down itLudicolo's teammates fastquickly.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Ludicolo has a very interesting movepool that is capable of surprising opponents. While somewhat gimmicky, Sunny Day can be used to give Ludicolo a place on sun teams, outspeeding normally faster Pokemon with Swift Swim in order to set up sun for its team. Teeter Dance is also an interesting option for support, especially in Doubles, where it can confuse both opponents by launching the fastest Teeter Dance in the game. A bulkier set could also be considered, taking advantage of itLudicolo's other ability, Rain Dish. When combined with Leftovers and Leech Seed, Ludicolo becomes great for Rrain stall. However, this set is usually outclassed by offensive sets which take out opposing Pokemon more efficiently. In terms of held items, Lum Berry is worth considering as it stops Thunder Wave from affecting Ludicolo too greatly. In tandem with Substitute,For example, (comma) Ludicolo can take a Thunder Wave from Thundurus, then set up a Substitute to prevent further status. A Sitrus Berry could help Ludicolo take another hit and avoid some 2HKOs, though a more offensive item is usually better. Finally, a Tanga Berry can catch opponents by surprise and let Ludicolo survive a hit from Scizor or Genesect.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Tyranitar, Abomasnow, or really anything that gets rid of rain are good choices for stopping Ludicolo by, (comma) ridding it of its Rain support. With the aid of a Choice Scarf, Genesect outspeeds Ludicolo even under Rain, and can decimate it with a Download-boosted U-turn or Bug Buzz. Cresselia, Dusknoir, Ferrothorn, and any other bulky Pokemon not weak to Ludicolo's attacks can take hits from Ludicoloit and retaliate by ending Ludicolo'its sweep, usually with Thunder Wave or Trick Room. Finally, Thundurus can cripple Ludicolo permanently with a Prankster Thunder Wave, but it must be wary of Ice Beam.</p>

GP APPROVED 2/2

 

[Level 51]

implemented; this is ready for upload unless you guys reallllllllly want Nollan's set (although I'd say leave it for some other time).