NOC Fallout New Vegas NOC [GAME OVER - Wastelanders Win]

[Celever]

Dude what the actual fuck?

When enough players find a player summy, they start lynching said player. When the wagon pocks up speed (or it clearly will in the future) said player oftentimes ends up claiming as a last line of defense as town or a final gambit as scum. Eiher way the player has to be getting pretty desparate not to die.

Why, then, are people lynch him NOT because they find HD scummy, but specifically for a claim!? Everyone who has bandwagoned on HD in this elaborate role fish is acting scummy today. That includes you Buttered, since you're not posting content in relation to this wagon, you're just hoping that tl;dr's will make your bandwagons look more like legitimate votes.

UNVOTE: Haunted Diamond.

There is no need and no reason for him to claim rn. The only thing remotely suspicious about his behaviour today, besides the scumslip, is the fact that he's not dead. This is either because HD actually is scum, thus cannot be killed by scum, or the mafia figured that he wouldn't be of use to the own during the day anyway, PR or not.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

Divert the attention? You're claiming to be a power role and have offered no proof of being one. If anything you should be in the spotlight. Don't act like you didn't bring this situation on yourself; you're the one who softclaimed it.

The fact that anyone can do literally the same exact thing and be allowed to coast through the whole game is unacceptable. The way you went about it is exactly how I would expect mafia to do it.

Haunted Diamond tell me, would you let me live and coast through the entire game if I claimed that I was a power role right now and nothing else(to clarify I am NOT doing this, just a hypothetical)?

And yes, as mafia I would CONTINUE to harp on something that clearly everyone in the game disagrees with so I can isolate myself further. That would be a brilliant idea.

Tunneling me so much for doing something anyone would have done is unacceptable. I don't expect the noobtowns (with the mafias I sense among them!) to have a better judgment, but you should know better that what I did could very well have been a last resort as a town for me.
Would I let you coax through the game? Of course not. But if I found you suspicious, I would have watched your actions and tried to find a flaw in them.
Disagrees? lol you are understimating the power of inactive townies waiting to jump on a train. You have been there yourself too (when everyone attacked you in page 19), don't pretend you don't know.

"Hi everybody! I'm the village announcer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"

 

[Celever]

Oh lookie, what a surprise. Sunny is on the HD bw too!

VOTE: sunny00

The problem with Haunted's defense is honestly that he is refusing to claim his role.

sunny, he isn't claiming his role because it would be detrimental to the town to do so. Unless there is legitimate reason for a lynch on him I don't want him to claim his role. Good job helping Spiffy in this role fish. You two would literally be shipped as a scum pair and it'd most likely be you with your head on the chopping block on my other site. Spiffy is playing so fucking badly.... stop listening to him. I beginning to think Spiffy might be courier lol.

Cancerous was a safeguard, and I'd assume there's a solid chance of a bodyguard.

Yes? Pretty obvious???

He should know that having a cleaned town member would be extremely beneficial to the town, and the fact that he is not seems very suspicious.

Claiming =/= cleaning. A player is never clean until they are dead or in other remote circumstances like a cc war with a flipped scum or being cleaned by an inspector who was in a cc war with a flipped scum. If you want to trust him, then do. You don't need to put him in a vulnerable position by making him claim.

Also he DID claim a power role, making him a target for the mafia.

He softclaimed a power role of some sort, yes. I said it yesterday: Power Role means anything from a mayor to an alliance checker to a doctor and everything in between. The reason why I think mafia didn't kill him last night is just that. What if he's just the mayor? Hell, he possibly even hinted at it (he said something about 2 votes). HD's skill at the game in conjunction with this claimed power role most likely didn't equate to a kill worthy of killing over someone like LightWolf who is an extremely good player to start with.

At this point, revealing his role shouldn't matter to him.

It does for all the reasons I stated above. Which I also stated yesterday. READ PLEASE!!

(I can unvote if we are getting close to majority)

Nice escape route.
sunny, he is refusing to claim his role because it is detrimental to the town TO claim his role. Why would he do something harmful to our cause?

 

[JALMONT]

Okay, I'm adding your posts to the "will not read" file, as you clearly can't read mine without distorting them. Everything in that middle paragraph is a bold lie, and anyone can look back and check this. I mean you're not even paying the slightest attention, seeing as you don't know that the announcer posted in the middle of the night phase even after having to go back and check to see that it exists at all.

"Everything in that middle paragraph is a bold lie." That literally makes no sense considering that half of the middle paragraph... is my opinion ???

Starting from the end of the informal vote count. here is what you posted re: Cancerous

"For my part I think Cancerous is the weakest. He seems to have just been bullied this whole time, and day 1 is far too soon to lynch someone for "trying to seem active but contributing nothing""really weak Cancerous lynch."

So you never explicitly said "this is a bad lynch, we shouldn't go through this lynch." You just say, it's a weak lynch, but you never state that it's an option that's not on the table. I just find the contrast interesting considering you claim you were "adamant" about being against the lynch but it sure doesn't seem like that?

It's interesting that you immediately resort to attacking my personal character in order to dismiss my argument? Do you think you can get away with that? (you probably will honestly lol)

Also, would have expected me to say something even after the hammer? You know that a hammer ends the night right? As in people stop talking? HOLY FUCK. Ignored.

#517 and #516 were posted the above after the hammer so clearly you didn't recognize that the hammer had occurred and thus could have said something regarding the wagon of Cancerous votes. You choose not to and I am pointing out that I find that strange considering you are making a major deal out of telling everyone the lynch was bad. Ok???

Why are you getting so emotional? Are you ok? I didn't really think that was all that convincing but your response is pretty disturbing.

vote vonfiedler --> parking this vote boys

Why would Haunted Diamond be dead? He was almost lynched yesterday so unless the mafia knew he was a strong role, there would be no reason to kill him.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

[quote="Jalmont, post: 6212132, member: 88480"I don't see how the post restricter could have any way known what the announcer was going to say so I am fairly certain the two are aligned together as mafia. Is Haunted Diamond mafia? I don't know right now. I could see it both ways. If we're at the point where we are 100% lynching him today then he should claim, otherwise probably not.[/quote]
The announcement was posted in the thread in the beginning of Night 1 if I remember correctly, so they could have seen it before having to submit their actions. It must be so,,

edit:"Hi everybody! I'm the village announcer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"

 

[JALMONT]

^yea i found it thanks

"missing announcement" = "not paying the slightest attention"

hey von why are you asking all of us why we voted cancerous, were you not paying attention to our votes in which we voted cancerous maybe if you were paying attention you wouldn't have to ask again!!!

 

[JALMONT]

Also want to point von's reaction was a stark contrast to earlier when he played me off as "typical jalmont." why the excessive emotional response now?

 

[Haunted Diamond]

I have caught on to some things of how Spiffy is playing and I am certain that he is playing with a specific end game goal in mind.

Can you please elaborate on this? All I see right now is someone who picked on me on day 1 and no matter how much I tried, he tried to lynch me. He even said something like "it doesn't matter if you are town or not, we're gonna lynch you." (i can find the quote if you want)

edit (fk): "Hi everybody! I'm the village announcer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"

 

[vonFiedler]

So you never explicitly said "this is a bad lynch, we shouldn't go through this lynch." You just say, it's a weak lynch, but you never state that it's an option that's not on the table. I just find the contrast interesting considering you claim you were "adamant" about being against the lynch but it sure doesn't seem like that?

So you're saying that "this is the worst choice when there are two better ones" is not the same as "bad". No.

#517 and #516 were posted the above after the hammer so clearly you didn't recognize that the hammer had occurred and thus could have said something regarding the wagon of Cancerous votes. You choose not to and I am pointing out that I find that strange considering you are making a major deal out of telling everyone the lynch was bad. Ok???

So let's get this perfectly clear:
You aren't totally convinced that I was against a Cancerous lynch, unless I knowingly spoke after hammer to gloat about how right I knew I'd be?

That's not surprising. Because it suggests that to you, the only convincing behavior for anyone is to be an indignant shit. Explains a lot of your actions really.

Why are you getting so emotional? Are you ok? I didn't really think that was all that convincing but your response is pretty disturbing

It's not emotional to call you out on being a fucking moron when you make posts like these. You're projecting.

 

[vonFiedler]

Also want to point von's reaction was a stark contrast to earlier when he played me off as "typical jalmont." why the excessive emotional response now?

Did I try to lynch you?

 

[Celever]

So you're saying that "this is the worst choice when there are two better ones" is not the same as "bad". No.



So let's get this perfectly clear:
You aren't totally convinced that I was against a Cancerous lynch, unless I knowingly spoke after hammer to gloat about how right I knew I'd be?

That's not surprising. Because it suggests that to you, the only convincing behavior for anyone is to be an indignant shit. Explains a lot of your actions really.



It's not emotional to call you out on being a fucking moron when you make posts like these. You're projecting.

Hide

 

[vonFiedler]

Celever you've never once in your life cornered me, fact, hasn't stopped me from using ad hominems against you. It's your personality, not the game.

 

[Celever]

Celever you've never once in your life cornered me, fact, hasn't stopped me from using ad hominems against you. It's your personality, not the game.

I never said that I cornered you. I said that Jalmont did.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

Dude what the actual fuck?

When enough players find a player summy, they start lynching said player. When the wagon pocks up speed (or it clearly will in the future) said player oftentimes ends up claiming as a last line of defense as town or a final gambit as scum. Eiher way the player has to be getting pretty desparate not to die.

Why, then, are people lynch him NOT because they find HD scummy, but specifically for a claim!? Everyone who has bandwagoned on HD in this elaborate role fish is acting scummy today. That includes you Buttered, since you're not posting content in relation to this wagon, you're just hoping that tl;dr's will make your bandwagons look more like legitimate votes.

UNVOTE: Haunted Diamond.

There is no need and no reason for him to claim rn. The only thing remotely suspicious about his behaviour today, besides the scumslip, is the fact that he's not dead. This is either because HD actually is scum, thus cannot be killed by scum, or the mafia figured that he wouldn't be of use to the own during the day anyway, PR or not.

Do you still have issues with the "it was either that or they wanted that" "scumsplip"????
I'm not dead, why? I don't know to be frank. But Jalmont actually explained it well. I am an easy target for the mafia today (to try and get me lynched) and this post restriction thing is making things ten times worse by singling me out and opening ways to possible scum scenarios.

"Hi everybody! I'm the village announcer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"

 

[Celever]

Do you still have issues with the "it was either that or they wanted that" "scumsplip"????
I'm not dead, why? I don't know to be frank. But Jalmont actually explained it well. I am an easy target for the mafia today (to try and get me lynched) and this post restriction thing is making things ten times worse by singling me out and opening ways to possible scum scenarios.

"Hi everybody! I'm the village announcer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"

Yes. No where near bad enough to lynch you though.

 

[JALMONT]

So you're saying that "this is the worst choice when there are two better ones" is not the same as "bad". No.

yea cuz it doesn't really imply anything about it being a "bad" choice, it could still be a good choice, just that there were two better ones. if it was really such a terrible choice i don't see why you wouldn't be more interested and more forceful in telling others about the better two options???

So let's get this perfectly clear:
You aren't totally convinced that I was against a Cancerous lynch, unless I knowingly spoke after hammer to gloat about how right I knew I'd be?

That's not surprising. Because it suggests that to you, the only convincing behavior for anyone is to be an indignant shit. Explains a lot of your actions really.

Nope, I'm just surprised you weren't concerned about the bandwagon of votes that just appeared. Bypassing them just made it seem like you were disinterested in discussing an important development in favor of discussing....amianki??? I would just expect something more along the lines of "wow i'm a little concerned of what just happened what the heck guys can we get unvotes" especially considering you have made it a point to say that you were "adamantly" against the lynch and that you want to hear exactly why people were onboard with a lynch (which you could have done so before cancerous was even lynched, and yet you did not)

Your conclusion doesn't make any sense (re: me) in any case since it assumes that I think that you automatically should be "gloating" when nothing I've said suggested that that's what you should be doing (i.e. you could've done what I just said above).

It's not emotional to call you out on being a fucking moron when you make posts like these. You're projecting.

lol i'm not the one drawing conclusions about other people based on faulty evidence (i could draw a conclusion of you based on factual evidence but i choose not to because i'm not...emotional???)

Did I try to lynch you?

Not then or now. You can be emotional and not lynch someone, just like you are right now. I literally pointed something out about your play, didn't even say a word about lynching you or finding you as mafia and you get really defensive. That's not me dude, that's on you.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

Yes. No where near bad enough to lynch you though.

What do you mean?

"Hi everybody! I'm the village announcer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"

 

[vonFiedler]

I never said that I cornered you. I said that Jalmont did.

The point is on ad hominems in general. Focus on the argument, not the flavor.

I can't for the life of me even understand how it's a point of contention that I was against a Cancerous lynch (undeniable fact). It means nothing that I was. I never suggested it did. For all you people know, if I was mafia, I could have vouched for him knowing he was village and looked good when if he got lynched. But no one has suggested that. Instead you lie and say I was never really against the lynch. What truly bizarre behavior.

All that matters is that it WAS a bad idea. No one can explain to my why Spiffy wasn't a better D1 lynch, regardless of whether or not he seems like a good lynch now (and he's still high on my list). HD has made absolutely no headway in making himself less scummy.

I would just expect something more along the lines of "wow i'm a little concerned of what just happened what the heck guys can we get unvotes" especially considering you have made it a point to say that you were "adamantly" against the lynch and that you want to hear exactly why people were onboard with a lynch (which you could have done so before cancerous was even lynched, and yet you did not)

Your conclusion doesn't make any sense (re: me) in any case since it assumes that I think that you automatically should be "gloating" when nothing I've said suggested that that's what you should be doing (i.e. you could've done what I just said above).

I really need a running tally of things you have said today that are flat-out incorrect. I assume you are aware how a hammer works? So you should know that I can't ask people to unvote after the hammer comes down. But that's what you're suggesting. You are trying so desperately hard to find mud to sling and it's not even the rainy season.

Not then or now. You can be emotional and not lynch someone, just like you are right now. I literally pointed something out about your play, didn't even say a word about lynching you or finding you as mafia and you get really defensive. That's not me dude, that's on you.

vote vonfiedler --> parking this vote boys

Mhm

 

[JALMONT]

I really need a running tally of things you have said today that are flat-out incorrect. I assume you are aware how a hammer works? So you should know that I can't ask people to unvote after the hammer comes down. But that's what you're suggesting. You are trying so desperately hard to find mud to sling and it's not even the rainy season.

But, as I said before, you clearly did not know a hammer had occurred considering that you posted after the hammer had happened.

Mhm

As in, before you went completely berserk and emotional.

 

[JALMONT]

I didn't say you were" never really against the lynch" or at least I am not trying to claim you said that. I'm saying that given that that was your viewpoint, you did not seem very interested in moving the lynch away from Cancerous considering the fact that you did not discuss him that much in the closing stages of the day.

 

[vonFiedler]

But, as I said before, you clearly did not know a hammer had occurred considering that you posted after the hammer had happened.

5:16 (my time)
I make a post that is still arguing for a Spiffy lynch. At this point it seems unlikely, but I still do it. Meanwhile, my vote is on Haunted Diamond, as it seems that lynch might actually work at that point. At the time, only three votes are on Cancerous.

Between 5:54 and about 8:14, a slim two hours, four votes pile onto Cancerous, hammering it. Unless you think I'm literally glued to my computer chair, this doesn't seem like an unreasonable span of time to be doing anything else.

When I get on, skim posts, it is not looking good for Cancerous. So I make a post again condemning Spiffy (suggesting a better lynch) while talking about how weak a lynch against Cancerous is. At seven votes, clearly weak means weak as in reasons to lynch him, not odds of succeeding.

So yes, as a matter of fact, as soon as was possible, I addressed the lynch. I doubt it is to your standards, but if it was, I doubt people would have been more inclined to listen.

As in, before you went completely berserk and emotional.

Hmm, more incorrect things. My thesaurus doesn't have those listed as synonyms for glib and sarcastic.

 

[vonFiedler]

I didn't say you were" never really against the lynch" or at least I am not trying to claim you said that. I'm saying that given that that was your viewpoint, you did not seem very interested in moving the lynch away from Cancerous considering the fact that you did not discuss him that much in the closing stages of the day.

What is your point? I didn't realize that I was the only clean townsfolk and that I had that much power and responsibility. Dodging responsibility for lynching him is one thing, trying to imply that it is my fault?

 

[ButteredToast]

Can you please elaborate on this? All I see right now is someone who picked on me on day 1 and no matter how much I tried, he tried to lynch me. He even said something like "it doesn't matter if you are town or not, we're gonna lynch you." (i can find the quote if you want)

There is something with you that is not right. Your actions and reasoning speak more to self preservation than they do about advancing the village. Post #437 you flat out admit to claiming a power roll to save your ass and then you leave right before deadline.

just for you guys to stop voting me, yes i did soft claim a power role. i will be staying up for another 10 minutes to answer any questions and then i'm going to bed.

We took you at your word that you were a power role. You felt it was important enough to throw that out there in order to protect yourself yet at no point did it seem you were ever going to actually claim. As I have said and Spiffy has agreed, this cannot happen. If you claim to be a power role, you need to do so with every intention of following through with it. It is not a good thing at all for the village to take you on face value that you are a power role without proof, because then anyone could get out of lynching suspicion because they make empty claims to roles they won't back up. Does that make sense? The problems on you and the games you have played in order to not face the consequences of your claim is extremely disconcerting. The information about you not wanting to reveal your power role because it will give information to the mafia is weak. You have already told the mafia that you are a power role. Literally just happened and they know, and you're still here. What information you are holding back is, in my opinion, more valuable to the village than it is to the mafia. What role you are might help us to move forward. Or it is going to catch you in a big ol' lie.

I want to know if you are the announcer or not, first and foremost. You soft claimed a power role, and then it seemed like you were claiming to be the announcer. There are signs to point that you are in fact the announcer and a lot of this shit would be solved if you just were honest about that question. The evidence we have on you from last day isn't strong, but it isn't going to go away because you claim to be something we cannot confirm.

I don't know how far Spiffy wants to take this, but answering this is the BARE MINIMUM that I need to let you slide. The problem is, me and Spiffy are just two people and you can ignore us if others dont throw their support behind us. We are right now asking people to 1) not let people get away from suspicion by just claiming to be a power role and 2) the information we will take from you responding to the claim will help us to gain actual information that will be helpful to the village to avoid another mislynch.

There are more things and reasons than just this. But any more information is unsafe to be shared at this time. You just need to trust me that there is potentially more.

So, if you want to satisfy Spiffy and my curiosity, go ahead. If you do not, know that I'm not going to let this go. And I don't think Spiffy is going to let this go. And hopefully there are going to be a lot more people who will not let this go so that you are back to the point where we are most suspicious of you than anyone else just like we were at the end of day 1 so that you actually do have to answer for your suspicions or follow through on your claim.

 

[ButteredToast]

Also, may I just point out, the whole "Haunted Diamond was left alive by the mafia because we might lynch him" is absolutely stupid. Why the hell would we lynch someone who has shown that they are willing to come out as a power role? If he is actually a power role, we're not going to lynch him.

Anyone who is arguing this point isn't thinking. The village isn't going to lynch the most proven villager. Especially the most proven villager with a critical role.

Oh, and not to mention...

THE VILLAGE DIDN'T LYNCH HIM EVEN THOUGH HE WAS THE BEST CANDIDATE BASED ON THE SOLE REASON THAT HE JUST SAID HE WAS IMPORTANT AND GAVE AN ARBITRARY DEADLINE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT COULDN'T BE MET WITH REASONABLE DISCUSSION.

To me, the people who are arguing this are either not thinking this through at all. If you are going to give me a reason, please make sure that reason actually makes some sense.

ALSO. I forgot to mention to you Haunted Diamond in my longer post I just did. I know you are on a different time zone than the majority of our activity. Let me just say that we are tackling this problem right out of the gate on day 2. There is absolutely no reason for you to wait all the way up until deadline and then use your time zone as an excuse to make us feel sorry for you and give you credit. If you do this, it's nothing but a stall tactic to not follow through AGAIN. I gave you the benefit of the doubt on day 1, but you need to make sure you are on top of this and get out early on day 2 to tackle your criticisms. If you are village, do not be like Cancerous and cost us a miss lynch because you don't want to take the time to defend yourself properly.

Im going to bed. Goodnight.

 

[vonFiedler]

I don't know how far Spiffy wants to take this, but answering this is the BARE MINIMUM that I need to let you slide. The problem is, me and Spiffy are just two people and you can ignore us if others dont throw their support behind us. We are right now asking people to 1) not let people get away from suspicion by just claiming to be a power role and 2) the information we will take from you responding to the claim will help us to gain actual information that will be helpful to the village to avoid another mislynch.

As high as HD is on my list in general, I've given the matter a lot of thought and I think I've come to a sort of epiphany. Once he soft-claimed, we've all been acting like he's the Thane of Whiterun or something. Like he's holding us all hostage, and we couldn't lynch him as long as he MIGHT be a power role. That's exactly why Spiffy didn't lynch him yesterday, and it is why you guys are so keen on him claiming today.

It has been said "how can we let him continue to hide behind this?". Well. You really don't have to.

See I realized something; you could look at everything else he has ever said, or continues to say, and come up with reasons to either think he is scum or town. The same you would with any other player.

If you think that a lot of what he's been saying is shit, lynch him (just don't waste the day doing it too quickly). If you don't, don't. Don't make this hinge on a claim, cause if he claims and is legit, well, you've fucked up. And you don't need to fuck up. Cause the softclaim in and of itself doesn't really matter, and doesn't actually tie anyone's hands.

Why is he still alive? Maybe he is mafia. Maybe the BG targeted him, what with the contents of the announcement and all that. Again, this doesn't really matter.

Not intended to influence a lynch on HD either way. For my money, I think Spiffy and HD are the scummiest players in this game, but also that they most likely aren't both mafia. And maybe I'm a chickenshit, but I lean HD atm. Hopefully this post was as useful as it seemed in my head. Carry on.