Don't use that, use this
Approved by Haunter
Idea based off of this thread in the BW RU subforum and various other threads for the other BW MetagamesApproved by Haunter
If you have taken a look at our usage stats recently, you may have noticed a few interesting trends. Top tier threats such as Landorus, Keldeo, and Manaphy are in UU range while bad, mediocre, or straight-up outclassed Pokemon such as Donphan, Cloyster, and Forretress are comfortably OU. The purpose of this thread is to educate newer players about which Pokemon are good, which Pokemon aren't, and why, ultimately leading to a better playerbase. Here is an example of how you should format your responses:
Don't use this:
Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 64 Atk / 252 Spd / 192 SAtk
Naive Nature
- Outrage
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
Why it's bad:
While MixMence was an absolute monster in previous generations, it has fallen from grace in XY. Its coverage, which was once considered unwallable, now leaves it unable to break some of the most common walls in OU, such as Sylveon, Clefable, or Togekiss. In addition, Salamence's once highly sought-after power is now a bit lackluster for OU standards. In addition, there are now quite a few Pokemon that completely outclass it. One such example is...
Instead, use this:
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 200 SAtk / 56 HP / 252 Spd
Mild Nature
- Substitute / Outrage
- Fusion Bolt / Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
Why it's better:
Kyurem-B is everything MixMence ever hoped it could be and more. It is an absolute terror to stall teams, with its great coverage, sky-high base 170 and 120 mixed attacking stats, and excellent ability in Teravolt, all of which allow Kyurem-B to be one of the greatest wallbreakers in OU. Its Teravolt ability lets it bypass Mega Venusaur's Thick Fat and Rotom-W's Levitate to be able to 2HKO both of them. It's no slouch against offensive teams, either. It can set up a Substitute against a Pokemon it forces out, and then use its fantastic power and coverage to tear holes in the opposing team. It has the coverage to rip through Landorus-T, Gliscor, Azumarill, Mega Venusaur, and Togekiss, while it has the raw power to break Clefable and Sylveon. All of these Pokemon can cause Salamence major issues, while Kyurem-B has little trouble with any of them.
Conclusion:
While Salamence is a mere shadow of its former self, Kyurem-B is a more than suitable replacement. Kyurem-B is, simply put, a monster. Its attacking stats put Salamence's to shame, and its coverage is also impressive. Kyurem-B is so much more threatening of a wallbreaker than Mixmence could ever hope to be in the XY OU metagame.
Archive:
Don't use this:
Espeon @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fighting
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
Why it's bad: Espeon has near top 20 usage right now, and I really don't get why. Magic Bounce is predictable, it's horribly frail, and it's easily walled by common Pokemon, such as Tyranitar and Heatran. In addition, Espeon is easily beaten by a ton of offensive Pokemon, particularly Genesect, Aegislash, and Scizor, among others. In addition, it doesn't really hit that hard, especially with its pathetically weak coverage moves. Magic Bounce is nowhere near good enough or consistent enough to warrant using a Pokemon with so many offensive and defensive shortcomings. Luckily, however, there is a far better alternative:
Instead, use this:
Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 20 Atk / 240 Spe / 248 SAtk
Naive Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Ice Beam
- Superpower
- Hidden Power Fire
Why it's better: Offensive Deoxys-S beats all of the Pokemon that laugh at Espeon, with the sole exception of Aegislash. It OHKOes Tyranitar and Excadrill with Superpower, while it also OHKOes Genesect and Scizor with Hidden Power Fire. Deoxys-S's ridiculous Speed allows it to function as a fantastic revenge killer that is faster than many Choice Scarf users, while its great mixed coverage and STAB Psycho Boost make it hard to wall. Not to mention, it can easily bluff a hazards lead set, which only adds to its potency.
Conclusion: Offensive Deoxys-S is better than offensive Espeon in nearly every way. It's much harder to wall, much faster, and much less of a liability against common Pokemon. Deoxys-S also outclasses Espeon when it comes to Dual Screens sets, but that's for another post.
Don't use this:
Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EV's: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Softboiled
- Wish / Heal Bell
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
Why it's bad: Blissey's not bad, per say, but it's simply outclassed by its pre-evolution, Chansey, because Blissey has several key issues that prevent it from excelling. While Blissey possesses superior base stats than Chansey, its inability to use Eviolite means it has an extremely poor Defense stat that can be taken advantage of by nearly every physical attacker. Thus, Blissey is unable to wall the many mixed attackers popular in OU and often finds itself overwhelmed in a tier filled with powerful and unpredictable attackers. Furthermore, Blissey's niche over Chansey in being able to use certain special attacks has been largely overshadowed by a tier where Pokemon such as Assault Vest Excadrill and Aegislash take pitiful damage from even a super effective Flamethrower.
Instead, use this:
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EV's: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Softboiled
- Wish / Heal Bell
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
Why it's better: With Eviolite in hand, Chansey becomes far bulkier than Blissey could ever imagine in both stats. Although the lack of Leftovers may seem poor, Chansey more than makes up for it by having comparable physical bulk to fully invested 100/100 defenses while retaining the greatest special bulk in the game. This means that Chansey can wall many unboosted attackers, even many physical ones—an amazing feat and certainly a lifesaver for any defensively-oriented or Cleric-reliant team. Many dedicated wallbreakers, such as Kyurem-B, struggle to get past Chansey, a testament to her effectiveness against offensive teams. Chansey is still usable in Sandstorm and when afflicted by status—most attacks will do substantially less damage to Chansey as compared to Blissey even when factoring in the extra passive damage. And although Knock Off is more prevalent than it was last gen, with very few exceptions, the users of Knock Off are not Pokemon that Chansey should be staying in on anyway.
Conclusion: By virtue of its greatly increased defenses, Chansey should almost always be used over her older sister. Chansey still has at her disposal the vast majority of her sister's tools: Seismic Toss and Toxic; Natural Cure; and a variety of team support options including Wish, Heal Bell, and even Stealth Rock. In a metagame filled with extremely powerful attackers and game-winning setup strategies, no defensive Pokemon can afford to be easy fodder. Chansey, unlike Blissey, possesses the sheer defensive prowess and resiliency to make a significant contribution to any team in need of a great wall.
Don't use this:
Espeon @ Light Clay
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Baton Pass
- Yawn / Psychic / Psyshock
Why it's bad: Espeon can be a useful Pokemon very specific situations, but its extremely lacking defensive stats and low appeal outside of Magic Bounce don't do it any favors. Its move options are extremely limited, as Espeon frequently doesn't have enough time or presence to effectively pull off Cleric or Wishpassing roles in addition to its Dual Screens duties. More often than not, Espeon ends up being a free switch to one of the many Pokemon that threaten it or that can set up on it, and overall its reliability and Speed is subpar for any team that depends on the presence of Dual Screens to execute a sweep.
Instead, use this:
Deoxys-S @ Light Clay
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock / Magic Coat
Why it's better: Deoxys-S brings with it an unmatchable Speed stat, respectable defenses (particularly under Dual Screens), and the ability to do just about everything Espeon does, only better. Taunt and Magic Coat can both emulate the effects of Magic Bounce, and Taunt has the added bonus of stopping any sort of setup whatsoever, whereas Espeon frequently finds itself at the mercy of boosting threats. Thanks to Deoxys-S's amazing 180 Speed stat, Deoxys-S easily sets up screens before it can be attacked, vastly reducing the amount of damage it takes. Lastly, Taunt and Stealth Rock allow it to be an extremely effective lead, and Deoxys-S can go a long way to make sure that the opponent never starts off the battle with the upper hand.
Conclusion:
Although Magic Bounce allows Espeon to absorb and reflect certain non-attacking moves and prevent the opponent from getting SR up first turn, its sharply decreased utility and support presence make it a subpar choice for the vast majority of teams. On the other hand, Deoxys-S possesses the tools necessary to perform nearly all of Espeon's tasks and more. When it comes to setting up Dual Screens, Deoxys-S is almost always the better choice.
Medicham's moveset statistics are so messed up. I mean, Fake Out at 48%? Bullet Punch at 50%? Psycho Cut at 54%? Drain Punch at 55%? This needs to be fixed.
Don't use:
Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Psycho Cut
- Fake Out
- Bullet Punch
Really it should be obvious why this set is so mediocre. Medicham lacks the bulk to effectively use Drain Punch, and is easily revenged by Talonflame and Aegislash, and Mega Scizor can 2HKO Medicham with unboosted Bullet Punch 72.7% of the time, which is very high. Psycho Cut is outclassed by Zen Headbutt for reasons which will be given later. By running Fake Out and Bullet Punch, you forgo useful coverage options like the elemental punches. This leaves you to get easily walled by most physical walls. For Medicham to succeed, it needs as much coverage as possible so it can fulfill its duty as a wallbreaker, not a "bulky" priority user which is outclassed by Conkeldurr.
Use this instead:
Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
- Fire Punch / Ice Punch
- Substitute / Fake Out
Medicham needs every single bit of power and coverage in order to function as a wallbreaker. Who cares about sweeping when your Speed is 100? Substitute allows you to have Medicham break through checks while unscathed and can even clean teams late game. Ice Punch can plow through Zapdos, Gliscor, Landorus-T, and Garchomp, and even has a chance to OHKO Dragonite through Multiscale. Zen Headbutt is Psycho Cut except that it has more power, accuracy isn't that huge of a concern, and the flinch bonus can save you at times. Fire Punch can enable Medicham to act as an Aegislash/Scizor lure. High Jump Kick is absolutely needed to secure the 2HKO on Hippowdon, Suicune, Skarmory, and Quagsire, as well as securing the OHKO on Ferrothorn and Chansey.
Doing Florges vs. Sylveon here, as Florges was still #79 or so on January's usage stats.
Don't use this:
Florges @ Leftovers
Ability: Who cares
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Aromatherapy
- Moonblast
- Protect
Why it's bad: It's not really that bad. Florges is a decent catch-all special wall, having a very good special defense and only 2 uncommon weaknesses. It can than set up wishes and aromatherapy to support the team when it encounters one of those special attackers, like Rotom-W.
But it's completely outclassed by Sylveon. It just has worse stats, especially the ones that matter.
Instead, use this:
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature (note: this spread is only physically defensive as an arbitrary spread to compare Florges and Sylveon, but you can throw in more special defense EVs and change the nature to Calm if you want to be a little better at walling special attackers)
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Hyper Voice
- Protect
Why it's better: Sylveon just has better stats than Florges. Sylveon has higher HP, so it has slightly better physical defense and slightly worse special defense overall despite having lower base defense and special defense stats. More importantly, Sylveon's higher HP means when a teammate receives a Wish, it is healed for more HP.
252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 228-270 (63.3 - 75%)
252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Sylveon: 236-278 (59.8 - 70.5%)
252 SpA Genesect Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Florges: 170-204 (47.2 - 56.6%)
252 SpA Genesect Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%)
Sylveon also is significantly stronger than Florges, making Sylveon less of set-up bait (including setting up substitutes as Hyper Voice is a sound move, bypassing subs). Their base special attack stats are 2 points apart, but Sylveon's Pixilate Hyper Voice is 117 base power factoring in Pixilate's 30% boost. Florges' Moonblast is just 95 base power. Overall, Sylveon is about 21% more powerful:
0 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Lucario: 151-178 (53.7 - 63.3%)
0 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Lucario: 183-216 (65.1 - 76.8%)
If you decide to run coverage moves, Sylveon is less than 2% weaker, worth the trade off for being able to use Pixilate Hyper Voice.
Speaking of coverage moves, Sylveon's selection is better. Both of them have access to psychic type moves. In addition to those, Sylveon gets Shadow Ball while Florges gets a wide range of grass type moves. The three types that resist Florges' main fairy STAB (poison, steel and fire) also resist grass, so it's a pointless coverage move type.
It was obvious, but I decided to do it anyway (because people still use this thing)
Don't use this:
Donphan @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Knock Off / Ice Shard (kek)
Why it's bad: With good physical defence and the ability to both set up and remove hazards, Donphan may look appealing. However, it is simply not good in the OU metagame. It is severely held back by its slowness, lack of reliable recovery and lack of useful resistances, meaning that it will be worn down alarmingly quickly as it spins. It has more problems with Spinblockers than any other rapid spinner - even its Knock Off does not do enough damage to ghosts such as Trevenant, who will either cripple or outright kill Donphan. It has very little offensive presence, and its only excuse for priority, the non-STAB Ice Shard, fails to 2HKO a standard Garchomp despite the doubly SE damage. Finally, it is simply outclassed as a whole by most other hazard-removers, the chief being...
Instead, use:
Excadrill @ Air Balloon / Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock / Swords Dance
Why it's better: Excadrill is in every way a better Rapid Spinner than Donphan. Its Mold Breaker ability and powerful offensive presence allows it to beat most spin-blockers one-on-one; Aegislash and Gengar both fall to Mold Breaker Earthquake, and even Trevenant can be beaten with Shadow Claw or +2 Iron Head. Mold Breaker also allows it to beat Rotom-W one-on-one, a feat that is a pipe dream for Donphan. Despite its lower defence, its Ground/Steel typing gives it many more useful resistances and opportunities to switch in and remove hazards. This makes Excadrill probably the most reliable spinner in the OU tier.
Doing this because I'm really amazed this Pokemon even manages to clock 2% usage:
Don't Use This:
Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
- Flare Blitz
- ExtremeSpeed
- Close Combat
- Wild Charge
Basically took a look at the moveset statistics to see what the most common set was. Anyways, the fact that this thing manages to even get 2% usage is astonishing. I can see the appeal this thing has; it has a nice Attack stat, a somewhat usable Speed, and okay bulk along with good coverage. However, this isn't enough to justify using Arcanine over any Fire-type available. It can hit fairly hard, but it's a lackluster choice compared to other Fire-types available, especially Entei, Infernape, Mega Charizard X, etc. Yes, it has Close Combat and Wild Charge for Rock- and Water-types, but that isn't something the other Fire-types can't do (other than Talonflame I guess). Intimidate is cool, but not so much on Arcanine, since its defensive typing is rather poor, and most physical attackers have a way to hit it really hard.
Instead, use:
I could make a whole list here but I shouldn't because Arcanine is outclassed by so many things. In other words, if you want a Fire-type, there are plenty of other choices that are better than it. Entei has Sacred Fire, and the high burn chance is neat, while it also has the lovely ExtremeSpeed that Arcanine has. Infernape has good power and Close Combat, making it a better Pokemon than Arcanine in every way. There's also Mega Charizard X, who has Outrage and Dragon Dance along with Tough Claws so it's much more lethal than Arcanine. Talonflame has Gale Wings Brave Bird and U-turn and its revenge killing role makes it a better mon than Arcanine. You should probably get my point by now. There is simply no reason to use Arcanine over any of these Fire-types in OU. Everything Arcanine does, something else can already accomplish or even do it better.
Don't use:
Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter / Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Quick Attack
- Return
- Close Combat
While Close Combat may seem like a good coverage move for Pinsir on paper, it pales in practice. Sure, you can hit Skarmory harder and get past Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, Heatran, Magnezone, and Rotom-W, but Rotom-W gets 2HKO'd to a boosted Return anyway, Ferrothorn is 2HKO'd or sometimes OHKO'd by Return, Tyranitar does not want to switch into Pinsir for fear of the better coverage move, Heatran and Magnezone lose their Air Balloons if they switch in an attack, and Skarmory is better taken care of by Pinsir's teammates. The fact that Close Combat is used on 30% of Pinsir means an unexplainable trend. Also, Pinsir's Close Combat cannot even OHKO Skarmory while Skarmory can just Brave Bird it to the dust.
Use this instead:
Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter / Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Quick Attack
- Return
- Earthquake
Earthquake is the superior option on Pinsir. You absolutely need it to not get checked by Aegislash, and Close Combat essentially gives Aegislash a free switch-in, which you do not want. While you lose coverage on Skarmory, Pinsir's not gonna beat Skarmory anyway. Another merit of Earthquake is that you keep your defenses, unlike Close Combat, which forces you to switch out for fear of revenge killers. Also, Mega Aggron can use Close Combat to sacrifice itself to get a priority user in safely. and let's not forget to mention Pinsir's 4x rock weakness hinders its survivability.
Don't use this:
Jolteon @ Choice Specs / Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Ice / Signal Beam
Why it's bad: With many Pokemon introduced, revamped, or brought back to OU, most with far better stats, abilities, and movepools than seen before, Jolteon's main niche, a fast 130 base speed, is no longer as exclusive as it was before. Furthermore, the lack of permanent rain has severely undermined Jolteon's power by preventing it from spamming Thunder. With a severely lacking base 110 Special Attack, extremely thin defenses, and one of the worst STABs to be locked into, Jolteon can no longer find a place in OU, and using it is often only a liability to the rest of your team.
Instead, use this:
Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Naive Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast / U-turn
- Hidden Power Ice / U-turn
Why it's better: Thundurus carries not only a substantially higher Special Attack stat, but an arguably superior typing that gives it far better of a matchup against the Ground-types that typically wall Jolteon. Thanks to Prankster, Thundurus can more than make up for its slightly lower speed in comparison to Jolteon by being able to utilize a priority Thunder Wave, allowing it to outspeed even the fastest of attackers. With just two attacks Thundurus can attain near-perfect coverage, and still have room for either another coverage move or the momentum-grabbing U-turn. With a powerful Focus Blast, Thundurus is not plagued by common special walls such as Heatran and Tyranitar. With a jaw-dropping array of options ranging from priority Taunt to physically based Defiant + Bulk Up sets, Thundurus is also many times more flexible than Jolteon and can easily fill a number of roles.
Conclusion:
If you're looking for a fast, powerful, and adaptable Electric-type attacker, look no more to Jolteon and instead embrace Thundurus. With better stats, typing, and a movepool that Jolteon would die for, Thundurus fulfills all of the roles that Jolteon does and much, much more. Overall, Thundurus brings to the battle field a much more threatening presence that can affect the whole tier.
Don't Use This:
Ninjask @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
- Baton Pass
- Swords Dance
- Protect
- Substitute
Instead, use this:
Scolipede @ Black Sludge
Ability: Speed Boost
- Baton Pass
- Iron Defense / Swords Dance
- Protect
- Substitute
Why it's better:
Poor Ninjask's days are over since the introduction of Speed Boost Scolipede. I still keep seeing Ninjask being thrown around for some reason, but as a dedicated Baton Passer, Scolipede simply outclasses it. Not only does Scolipede have a better typing and stats (outside of Speed, which is largely irrelevant), but it can also pass along Iron Defense boosts which are great on dedicated Baton Pass teams alongside teammates like Espeon. One of the other advantages in using Scolipede is it can fit onto other teams as well. Scolipede can run a more offensive Sash lead set with Megahorn and EQ, or even provide Spikes support. No matter its role or team, Scolipede is a more threatening and diverse Pokemon and outshines Ninjask.
Don't use this:
Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EV's: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Sp. Atk
Naive Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast
Why it's bad: Dragon Dance Salamence is something that's been degrading since last Generation facing competition from Dragonite who sported the same typing but much better bulk last Gen due to it's access to Multiscale, but Salamence's sheer power from previous Generations has kept it from falling into obscurity, but Salamence has fallen from Grace this Generation due to the advent of the Fairy Type making unable to spam it's main STAB move, while the Flying Type gives Salamence no notable Attacking moves to make use of while giving it a weakness to Stealth Rock, and due to the lack if a notable STAB move to take use of, the Dragon Dance Set is forced to either run obscure moves like Zen Headbutt or in this case, Special Moves like Fire Blast, and being extremely susceptible to WoW which is much more common due to it's accuracy buff, but it's also quite a bit of Burn Bait in General.
Instead use this:
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze -----> Tough Claws
EV's: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Def
Jolly Nature
-Dragon Claw
-Flare Blitz
-Dragon Dance
-Roost / Earthquake
Why it's better: Charizard has been gifted with a Mega Evolution this Generation, and has set quite the standard for Dragon Dance Sweepers in General. A great STAB combination alongside passable bulk given how threatening a Mega Charizard X can be, but the big draw here is one, the Fire/Dragon type, a typing shared only by Reshiram, but that's a bit irrelevant due to Reshiram's Uber Status and being more Special Geared, but for a Physical Attacker like Charizard X, it's a blessing due to the inability to cripple it with the Burn Status period. Something no other Physical Dragon can boast, but also benefits from it's Tough Claws ability, which gives a 33% boost to it's Contact moves such as Flare Blitz or Dragon Claw, so a more potent effect then Life Orb but without Life Orb's Recoil helping Zard X's Longevity, and because of how potent the Fire/Dragon STAB is and Zard X's good bulk it can afford to run Roost in place of Earthquake to further lengthen it's longevity, though it can also opt for Earthquake as well to nail opposing Heatran and keep Zard X from playing mind game's with Aegislash. The only notable thing Salamence has against is the fact that Mega Charizard X is, well, a Mega, so teams already using a Mega such as Pinsir cannot use Zard X.
Conclusion: Salamence has fallen from Grace in XY OU now, with many of it's roles being filled better by other Dragons such as the Dragon Dance Set being done better by Dragonite and Zard X, while it's MixMence Role, as mentioned by the OP, is outclassed by Kyurem Black. So at the end of the day, Salamence, especially when it comes to Dragon Dancing, finds it hard to find a niche other Dragons can't do as well or better.
Don't use this:
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate / Hyper Cutter
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Substitute / Swords Dance
Why it's bad: It's not exactly bad, but its inferior to having other attacks over Iron Head. While Iron Head might be tempting as a perfectly accurate STAB for Mawile, it simply does not provide enough coverage for Mawile alongside Play Rough and Sucker Punch. Iron Head hits Fairies and Ice types hard, but Play Rough is enough to 1-2HKO them anyway, especially when they can't really do much in return to Mawile. Rock types seen in OU are only limited to Tyranitar and Terrakion, which are also hit SE by Play Rough.
Instead, use this:
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate / Hyper Cutter
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off / Fire Fang Focus Punch
- Substitute / Swords Dance
Why it's better: As illustrated, Mawile doesn't really need to hit a target for SE to kill or dent them; having better coverage is usually better. The safest checks for Mawile are Steel or Fire types types which means we want something that hits them hard. Heatran, Ferrothorn, Skarmory are the few viable physical Fairy resists in the tier, so we want our 3rd slot to KO them. Fire Fang hits the latter 2 hard, whereas Brick Break dispatches the former 2. Focus Punch is also an option if running Substitute for anything that is not outright immune is almost OHKOed right away.
Don't use that:
Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly / Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Fire Punch / Magic Coat / Superpower
Why it's bad: With the amount of priority flying around suicide leads have a tough time of it, and Deoxys-S in particular is too frail to survive just about anything. While it's guaranteed to get up Stealth Rock and perhaps a layer of Spikes, it won't get up much more than that and it pays for it with its life; with the newly buffed Defog increasing the number of Pokémon capable of removing hazards, intentionally ditching your hazard setter puts you at a disadvantage.
Use this:
Deoxys-Defense @ Red Card / Mental Herb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave / Magic Coat
Why it's better: Deoxys-D can take a beating, which means it gets up more of its entry hazards than Deoxys-S is capable of and can even survive to set more in the future. It doesn't need offenses - that's what the rest of your team is for. If you're bothered by Taunt anti-leads, use Magic Coat and Red Card; if you're not, use Thunder Wave and Mental Herb.
so i herd u talkin bout dem heliolisk in the viability rankings
Don't use:
Heliolisk @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Volt Switch / Thunderbolt
- Surf
- Grass Knot
- Focus Blast / Volt Switch
Heliolisk may be appealing with that base 109 Speed and nullifying Water-type attacks, but that's all it can ever do. 109 Speed is still slow when you have threats like Ice Beam Greninja, Focus Blast Gengar, Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, DD Mega Charizard X, Kyurem-B, Lati@s, ScarfExca, ScarfTTar, ScarfChomp, ScarfTerrak, ScarfDiggers, ScarfMamo, ScarfKeld, Rain Kingdra/Kabutops, and Scolipede threatening to take you out, and its bulk is like a piece of paper ready to be crumpled up. Heliolisk is also vulnerable to priority, meaning that Bisharp, Conkeldurr, and Breloom can revenge kill it easily. Also, Azumarill can opt to run CB or AV to get past it, and Gyarados will predict the switch in and DD or Sub. It also gets KO'd by Aegislash's Sacred Sword, and it fails the OHKO on Blade Form unless running Specs. It doesn't even get an option to cripple Mega Venusaur with, and it gets shut down by Chansey. Life Orb Heliolisk fails the 2HKO on SDef Heatran unless rocks are up.
Use this instead:
Thundurus @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Flying
- Thunder Wave / Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast / Taunt / Thunder Wave / Psychic / Substitute
OR
Manectric @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Hidden Power Ice
OR
Raikou @ Choice Specs / Assault Vest / Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 36 HP or SDef / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch / Calm Mind
- Hidden Power Ice
- Shadow Ball / Extrasensory / Substitute
Really there is little reason to use Heliolisk over Manectric, Raikou, or Thundurus, who can do a lot more in the OU metagame. Thundurus is faster and can beat Lati@s and Gengar, which outspeed and destroy Heliolisk. It can also check flyspam with its higher physical bulk, as a Brave Bird fails the OHKO. Thundurus also has Prankster Thunder Wave, Taunt, and Nasty Plot to emergency check offensive mons, cripple stall, and set up a sweep, respectively. It has access to Psychic to dent Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss. It can even opt to run an anti-Defog set with Defiant to add to its unpredictability. Manectric is even faster and has access to Intimidate, allowing it to create a VolTurn core with Landorus-T. It also has Overheat to break through Aegislash and other Steel-types. Raikou has more offensive power, bulk, and Speed than Heliolisk, allowing it to break through defensive teams more easily, or run AV to serve as an offensive tank, or run a CM set and be a bulky sweeper while having Extrasensory for Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss. You get the point now. There is absolutely no reason to use Heliolisk in OU, as everything it accomplishes, something does it better.
Don't use this:
Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
nature: Relaxed
- Stealth Rock / Spikes / Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball / Volt Switch
- Volt Switch / Spikes / Toxic Spikes
Why it's bad:
Forretress isn't necessarily "bad" per se, its just simply outclassed by so so much. If you need a pivot that can remove hazards, then you can use Scizor. But if you go for the most common utility set, then you can instead use Ferrothorn. Forretress, yes, it does have the advantage of having rapid spin, but it doesnt have any recovery. Forretress also has absolutely miserable special defense, so it can only function as a defensive wall or maybe a mixed if you give it max spdef and a boosting nature, but all that is wasted on a stat that only has 60 bas special defense.
Instead, use this:
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
Nature: Relaxed / Impish
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Protect / Thunder Wave
- Power Whip / Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock / Gyro Ball / Spikes
Why it's better:
Ferrothorn is an absolute beast. Having absolutely insane 74 / 131 / 116 defenses with an amazing ability, decent typing, AND this great moveset makes Ferrothorn an absolute necessity to any especially bulky or stall team. Gyro Ball also has a surprising amount of power as well due to its laughable 20 base speed. Not to mention, its 94 base attack is pretty good actually, especially when keeping all its other stats distributed as well. Also, who doesn't love a great hazard setter with leech seed. Once ferro has leech seed up, your pokemon is paralyzed, chances are that this guy is going to have all its hazards up before you even know how to react.
Conclusion:
Ferrothorn is almost better in every regard except for ferrotresses moveset when it comes to Volt Switch and Rapid Spin. However, all of Ferro's other attributes greatly outclass the poor man's ferrothorn. If that doesnt prove it to you, check out these calcs:
252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Forretress: 135-159 (38.1 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 108-127 (30.6 - 36%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 296-350 (73.2 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Forretress Gyro Ball (32 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 39-46 (9.6 - 11.3%) -- possible 9HKO
Don't use:
Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
This set has limited coverage (Rock compliments water quite poorly) and is hard walled by several prominent walls in the metagame, such as Ferrothorn and Chesnaught. Kabutops has absolutely nothing to threaten them with, even after a Swords Dance, and Rain teams labor to get by Ferrothorn/Chesnaught as it is so simply "giving Kabutops support" to break down these walls isn't going to cut it. Aqua jet is absolutely terrible and is only used to hit Talonflame (which you beat anyway if you've preserved Kabutops as Brave Bird only does ~50%), Thundurus (which you kill 75% of the time anyway, though it does stop your sweep), and the rare Scarf Terrakion. The majority of the time, Kabutops will not need Aqua Jet as its ridiculous speed in the rain -- enough to outrun Deoxys-S -- allows it to outpace practically the entire metagame. So yeah, this is the set I keep seeing on the ladder and it's actually sad to see people run THIS set on a really damn good Pokemon.
Use this instead PLEASE:
Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Rapid Spin / Swords Dance
Superpower (or Low Kick if you'd prefer) enables Kabutops to badly wound Ferrothorn (or outright kill it after a Swords Dance boost) while putting a dent into Chesnaught on the switch, helping Kabutops' teammates wear it down later on in the match. Waterfall is still the main STAB move and hits like a truck under Rain, and Stone Edge bops Pokemon like Latias. This set largely eschews a small amount of its sweeping ability in exchange for dealing with its own checks FAR better...especially when the Pokemon that check Kabutops tend to annoy Rain as a whole. Perhaps Superpower will fall a little short of killing Ferrothorn, but Kingdra will appreciate the hole that has been busted open for it!
Another underrated aspect about Kabutops is its ability to spin. Aegislash and Sableye hate switching in on a Waterfall and Gengar flat out dies, so under Rain Kabutops does an outstanding job of pressuring spinblockers, albeit not quite as good a job as Excadrill. Because Rapid Spin isn't terribly common on Kabutops at the moment, your opponent might not even send in a spinblocker to protect their hazard(s), paving the way for a spin. Against HO teams, Kabutops will usually pay with its life to get a spin off so make sure you have a more established win condition if you choose to clear hazards. Against balance/stall it should have a far easier time spinning. Granted, Swords Dance is still a decent move on Kabutops since physically defensive Clefable and Quagsire are 2HKOed by Waterfall under rain anyway, so you don't have to worry about them walling you. Naturally, any Pokemon that lacks Unaware are going to be terrorized by a +2 Kabutops under rain. Be aware that Kabutops has a hard time setting up a Swords Dance and can often clean HO teams without boosting with its raw power. In summary, use Kabutops! Just please don't run the ladder set.
Rules:
-Don't use this thread just to bash certain Pokemon.
-Don't post obviously bad examples, such as Electivire or special Conkeldurr.
-Try to refrain from posting about a Pokemon if it isn't receiving much usage in OU at the moment, since the purpose of this thread is to inform about bad or outclassed Pokemon or sets that get more usage than they deserve.
-Please stay on topic.
-Make sure to back up your arguments with relevant information. As in more than just a sentence or two.
-All usual rules of the OU subforum still apply.
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