BH Balanced Hackmons

[Notgamingreally]

Going through the banlist and find several things that could be freed:
Liquid Ooze:
Banning things like this for competitivity may cause the loss of metagame popularity, which should be a bigger issue now.
Lumina Crash:
I was strongly opposed to its ban at that point and even more so after MMX's gone.
Photon Geyser:
MMX's gone *2.
Fillet Away:
Freeing this mid setup move may add some non-linearity to the meta. Tbh playing with multipliers all day can't be called fun.
Shedinja:
This may look crazy but Shedinja was banned in Gen 8 mainly because of the addition of Heavy-Duty-Boots. Now it has to choose from Heavy-Duty-Boots AND Covert Cloak which is a huge hold-back. Plus we have moldy Moves so it sometimes also needs Ability Shield.

General Thoughts:
1. Linear Format is far from fun. I knock out your 2x SpD defensive Pokemon with my offensive one because I have 1.5x1.5x=2.25x SpA which is bigger. If machines play Pokemon they should play exactly in this way. I don't mean it's bad or really unfun but a metagame shouldn't be fully filled with this.

2. We should allow a certain extent of "broken checks broken". All the things I proposed above are good additions to "unbalance" the meta. With Ooze, Lumina, Photon and FA defensive teams can't totally rely on the Furscales TH Sap boilerplate. And with Shedinja in, offensive teams should give up slots to deal with it, which somehow relieves the pressure on defensive teams.

3. For those who argue they are trying out fun sets and they work pretty well, here's now a big tour to prove that.

Ngl idk what you saying on liquid ooze running into random bullshit sapblockers on ladder is indefinitely more annoying then it not being here.
Lumina & photon could be retested however one likely excludes the other since the game of “does the malakazam beat my a shield or covert” likely isn’t that fun.
Fillet away is a multiplier idk what you talking abt, also still sounds lowkey annoying.
Might be lowkey cooking on shedinja (5 big attackers have a way around it, also some much needed ash ninja counterplay, fuck that frog) however it forces mostly bulky ghosts (and maybe flutter) to work around and doesn’t exist in a vacuum (I.e a shield likely pairs up with bounce and tidy mons, making it more stupid, covert also doesn’t likely stay in on salt/mortal/whatever)

Shedinja should be unbanned. There is no way it can deal with the onslaught that is Mortal Spin/Salt Cure/Stone Axe all at once. Boots/Cloak/Sash cannot cover everything. Even if unbanned, it's likely going to have low usage and viability.

Framing shed as a singular mon is weird. Theres fairly easy Ways to deal with mortal/salt and we have half decent removal and bouncers if it forgoes boots, even if big attackers have ways around it it’s probably still going to be a solid Pokémon with endeavor and countering non mold attackers.

Liquid Ooze itself should present trouble enough to FurScales teams. Counter-play options for FurScales is rather limited - for physical attackers especially who are hindered by Burning Bulwark/Strength Sap. Special Attackers, simultaneously, have more freedom than ever with Take Heart granting status immunity. The lack of physical viability and increased perks for special attackers encourages a one-sided metagame where only a single offensive/defensive stat matters. Even now, we are starting to see a decrease in the number of physically focused teams - physical attack is now much more reserved for pivot roles. In the long run, a special-only BH is not the way to go.

I would like sapblocking matchups to not be dumb prediction games and actually have some variance and thought put into it actually please and thank you, also physical attackers actually do in fact exist idk if you know that.

 

[Geneku2]

Going through the banlist and find several things that could be freed:

I agree with most of this. None of the item's listed above present anywhere close the the problem's of broken-ness of overcentralization of the meta as seen with Zacian-C and Substitute.

Lumina Crash and Photon Geyser may still be a problem given Alakazam-Mega and Necrozma-Ultra.

Shedinja should be unbanned. There is no way it can deal with the onslaught that is Mortal Spin/Salt Cure/Stone Axe all at once. Boots/Cloak/Sash cannot cover everything. Even if unbanned, it's likely going to have low usage and viability.

Liquid Ooze itself should present trouble enough to FurScales teams. Counter-play options for FurScales is rather limited - for physical attackers especially who are hindered by Burning Bulwark/Strength Sap. Special Attackers, simultaneously, have more freedom than ever with Take Heart granting status immunity. The lack of physical viability and increased perks for special attackers encourages a one-sided metagame where only a single offensive/defensive stat matters. Even now, we are starting to see a decrease in the number of physically focused teams - physical attack is now much more reserved for pivot roles. In the long run, a special-only BH is not the way to go.

What this dude yappin bout?

Council seems very closed to new ideas, don't reckon that's healthy.

 

[TTTech]

I agree with most of this. None of the item's listed above present anywhere close the the problem's of broken-ness of overcentralization of the meta as seen with Zacian-C and Substitute.

Lumina Crash and Photon Geyser may still be a problem given Alakazam-Mega and Necrozma-Ultra.

Shedinja should be unbanned. There is no way it can deal with the onslaught that is Mortal Spin/Salt Cure/Stone Axe all at once. Boots/Cloak/Sash cannot cover everything. Even if unbanned, it's likely going to have low usage and viability.

Liquid Ooze itself should present trouble enough to FurScales teams. Counter-play options for FurScales is rather limited - for physical attackers especially who are hindered by Burning Bulwark/Strength Sap. Special Attackers, simultaneously, have more freedom than ever with Take Heart granting status immunity. The lack of physical viability and increased perks for special attackers encourages a one-sided metagame where only a single offensive/defensive stat matters. Even now, we are starting to see a decrease in the number of physically focused teams - physical attack is now much more reserved for pivot roles. In the long run, a special-only BH is not the way to go.



Council seems very closed to new ideas, don't reckon that's healthy.

One council member doesn't speak for the whole council lil bro

 

[The Guy Who Has Many Alts]

Are you tired of running fake Fur Coat mons that don't actually wall anything like Fraudino, Farceus and Questionabro? Feeling down that your supposed "Physical Wall" is getting 3HKO'd from neutral hits?

• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Audino-Mega: 160-190 (39 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Arceus-Fairy: 168-198 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Slowbro-Mega: 124-147 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 85.4% chance to 3HKO

Well, it's about time you learn what a real Fur Coat mon looks like:

Avalugg @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Aurora Veil
- Chilly Reception
- Strength Sap
- Ice Hammer

Let's be honest here. Can you really call a Pokemon that takes damage from physical attacks a physical wall? Nay. Look at what a real physical wall can do:

• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Avalugg: 121-144 (30.7 - 36.5%) -- 62.7% chance to 3HKO
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Avalugg in Snow: 82-97 (20.8 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Avalugg with an ally's Aurora Veil: 60-72 (15.2 - 18.2%) -- possible 6HKO
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Avalugg in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 41-48 (10.4 - 12.1%) -- possible 9HKO

Finally, a real wall. Not some garbage <184 defense "physical wall" that has can't even avoid a 3HKO from a weak mon with <2000 attack like Mega Garchomp. A real Fur Coat mon does not rely on petty gimmicks like "type resistance". It simply stacks defense and shrugs off damage. Let's now observe the gap between Big Lugg and its competitors.

As you can clearly see, base Avalugg already has higher defense that the other "physical walls". Under prime conditions, Avalugg can reach over 3000 Defense. This is probably more defense than your entire team combined. You might be wondering how Avalugg can reach such high defences. It is because of mathematics. You see, Avalugg actually has a Phd in mathematics. That is why it chose to exist in the geometrically perfect form: a flat table. It symbolises the opposing Pokemon's heart monitor when they have to fight such a perfect Pokemon. The thing is, all of Avalugg's defense boosts are multiplicative. Fur Coat gives x2 defense. Snow gives x1.5 defense. Aurora Veil gives x2 defense. When you multiply 2x2x1.5, you get x6. Do you know what is equivalent to sextupling your defense? Removing the stat change cap and clicking Iron Defense 5 times.

That's all for this public service announcement. Expect the Avalugg population to sextuple after this post and expect a massive meta shift the likes no one have ever seen before after pathetic "physical attacker" finally meet a real physical wall.