Marigold
formerly KuraiTenshi26
Not nomming Fini to S, but I'm going to have to disagree with this kind of reasoning for something to not be S rank. Pokemon become S tier by excelling in a combination of two primary traits:We all obviously don't believe it's as strong of a threat as you do, since you believe it needs to be suspected. All of my teams tend to have an answer to any of it's sets, and it's never been a problem for me. While I'm just one person with my teams, if it was an S ranked Pokemon, I believe I would still feel fairly oppressed in building my teams to work around it, but I never did. Furthermore, with the banning of Zygarde, one of it's most prominent uses has been removed. It's still an amazing pokemon with great defensive stats and typing, but for me, this is why it's not S ranked.
- how does the mon centralize/abuse the metagame around it (aka: what is its niche)?
- how effective is it at said niche?
Anecdotal experience like "I would feel fairly oppressed to work around it but I never did" doesn't address Fini's strengths in the meta, nor how good it is at those roles. It doesn't bring up Fini's amazing ability to...
1) Blanket check most of the metagame
2) Punish near every switch-in
3) Be versatile
3) Centralize the meta by adapting to metagame trends
1) Blanket check most of the metagame
2) Punish near every switch-in
3) Be versatile
3) Centralize the meta by adapting to metagame trends
Anecdotal experience also doesn't bring up Fini's effectiveness at said strengths:
1) For a blanket check with Ferrothorn-level defences, Fini is not easy to wear down with either regenerator or poison heal
2) Very complimentary dual stab with a burn chance, knock off, calm mind, taunt, haze, nature's madness, and whirlpool are all great options to punish or even eliminate common answers
3) Its wide variety of options are unpredictable enough to cripple a wide host of key threats
4) Fini's common sets can incorporate the previously mentioned tech options with little opportunity cost to them, meaning it can quickly and effectively adapt despite metagame trends
1) For a blanket check with Ferrothorn-level defences, Fini is not easy to wear down with either regenerator or poison heal
2) Very complimentary dual stab with a burn chance, knock off, calm mind, taunt, haze, nature's madness, and whirlpool are all great options to punish or even eliminate common answers
3) Its wide variety of options are unpredictable enough to cripple a wide host of key threats
4) Fini's common sets can incorporate the previously mentioned tech options with little opportunity cost to them, meaning it can quickly and effectively adapt despite metagame trends
We should analyze points made like above and determine whether there is enough that undermines these qualities to hold it back from S, or not enough undermining so it could move up to S. This could be done with a combination of high-level play analysis and a little bit of theorycrafting.
Zygarde's ban is going to be meta-shifting for sure, but this doesn't detract from Fini's dominance as the premier bulky water type in the metagame. Sure the meta lost one thing it checked, but it still checks the majority of the meta like before. Fini is still the main comparison point of other water types, to the point that we actually have to justify to ourselves using a different water type over Fini if any other one is brought up (which is a testament to Fini's effectiveness in the metagame). Losing Zygarde doesn't change any of this, so it isn't really a reason to hold something back from S.
On another note, this might have been unintentional but saying "we all obviously feel otherwise" comes across as antagonizing the nominator and being presumptuous. It doesn't add to the discussion and it's not a good look overall. I think you're doing fine work though, running a tier isn't easy at all and it's a lot of effort. So no hard feelings to anyone here, just wanted to chime in on the metagame discussion is all :]
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