Ladder STABmons [OMotM November]

EV

Banned deucer.
art by Arhops
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STABmons
STABmons is the metagame where Pokemon have access to moves that match their type even if they can't normally learn them! Take Sableye, the Pokemon in the logo above. Besides all its usual moves, now it can learn all Dark and Ghost moves as well. This also applies to Pokemon that change type(s) during evolution. So for instance Eevee is a Normal-type and when it evolves it carries those Normal moves with it to all its Eeveelutions.

Rules:

Mechanic: Pokemon can learn any move that matches their typing. This transfers with evolutions, so if a Normal-type evolves into a Psychic-type in the game, you can teach the Psychic-type Pokemon any Psychic and Normal moves.
Clauses: OU clauses
Bans: [Pokemon] Diggersby, Kyurem-Black, Porygon-Z, Thundurus, [Items] Aerodactylite, Altarianite, King's Rock, Metagrossite, Razor Fang, [Moves*] Acupressure, Belly Drum, Chatter, Dark Void, Geomancy, Lovely Kiss, Shell Smash, Shift Gear, Sketch
Unbans: None
*still available on native learners.

Strategy:

Because a lot of Pokémon can learn powerful new attacks that they previously couldn't use, STABmons is generally a fast-paced metagame. Examples of strong wallbreakers include Water Spout Keldeo, V-create Mega Charizard X, and Boomburst Sylveon. And while a lot of setup moves have been banned, setup is still popular, with Swords Dance Mega Lopunny and Calm Mind Mega Slowbro being top-metagame threats.

People also rely on the combination of Fake Out + Extreme Speed (nicknamed FakeSpeed), which is usable on any Normal-type Pokemon such as Guts Ursaring, Pixilate Sylveon, and Scrappy Mega Lopunny to check setup. This one-two punch delivers a lot of damage all before the target can retaliate, making FakeSpeed a reliable and important element to keep dangerous threats in line.

Q&A:

Q: Do Mega Pokemon transfer types to their base form? For example, can I transfer Dark moves from Mega Gyarados to regular Gyarados?
A: No, any new moves must be "taught" outside of battle. Gyarados is only ever Water/Flying outside of battle so it cannot get access to Dark moves.

Q: What about forme changes, such as Rotom or Shaymin?
A: Similarly to how megas work, any forme changes that happen during battle won't transfer moves. Castform is a good example of this, as it only changes type with the ability Forecast in effect during a battle. Any forme changes that happen outside battle will transfer types, with a few exceptions. See the Resources section below for the full list.

Q: What about unreleased moves such as Thousand Arrows and Light of Ruin?
A: Only released moves are available.

Q: Why can't my Dark-type Tyranitar learn Hyperspace Fury?
A: Hyperspace Fury is coded to work on Hoopa-U only. STABmons only changes the access to new moves, it doesn't change how their coding works.

Q: Can Azumarill still use Belly Drum even though that move is banned?
A: Yep! The banned moves only apply to Pokemon that don't normally learn them.

Resources:

Playability: STABmons is currently on the OMotM ladder.

Council: None, I run it with community input.

Viability Rankings: link

Viable Moves by Type: link
Evolution Type Changes:
044MS.png
->
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Grass & Poison
095MS.png
->
208MS.png
Ground, Steel, & Rock
123MS.png
->
212MS.png
Bug, Steel, & Flying
133MS.png
->
134MS.png
135MS.png
136MS.png
196MS.png
197MS.png
470MS.png
471MS.png
700.png
Corresponding type & Normal
298MS.png
->
183MS.png
Water, Fairy, & Normal
247MS.png
->
248MS.png
Rock, Dark, & Ground
283MS.png
->
284MS.png
Bug, Flying, & Water
281.png
->
475.png
Psychic, Fighting & Fairy
290MS.png
->
291MS.png
Bug, Flying, & Ground or
292MS.png
Bug, Ghost, & Ground
333MS.png
->
334MS.png
Dragon, Flying, & Normal
451MS.png
->
452MS.png
Dark, Poison, & Bug
661.png
->
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Fire, Flying, & Normal

690.png
->
691.png
Water, Poison, & Dragon
Forme Type Changes:
492-sky.png
->
492-land.png
Grass & Flying are interchangeable since forme change happens outside battle via the Gracidea.
720-u.png
->
720.png
Psychic, Ghost, & Dark are interchangeable since forme change happens outside of battle via the Prison Bottle.
479MS.png
Although Rotom can change forme outside battle, it isn't allowed to transfer types between formes, except Ghost, because it forgets moves it can't learn when it returns to normal Rotom. For example, under normal circumstances, Rotom-Wash forgets Hydro Pump when it reverts back to Rotom.
646.png
Kyurem can also change formes outside of battle, but it stays the same type when it changes, thus it can't carry over Fire and Electric moves from Reshiram and Zekrom respectively. And similar to Rotom, when the Kyurem formes separate with the DNA splicer, they forget their signature moves.

The following Pokémon change only during battle and thus don't transfer types according to the rules of STABmons:
Castform, Meloetta, Darmanitan, all Mega formes.
 
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THREATLIST!!!
Prepare for these or else. You've been warned.

(Current 1500 usage stats Top 20)
==Moves with 50% or more in usage are bolded, 10% or more in usage are listed==
==Abilities and Items with 10% or more in usage are listed with percentages==

01.
645-s.png
30.46%
U-turn, Roost, Earthquake, Precipice Blades, Dragon Ascent, Stealth Rock, Knock Off, Defog, Stone Edge
[Intimidate | Rocky Helmet 36%, Leftovers 23%, Choice Scarf 22%]


02.
700.png
24.70%
Boomburst, Extreme Speed, Fake Out, Psyshock, Rapid Spin, Shadow Ball, Judgment, Hidden Power Fire, Protect, Recover, Wish, Hidden Power Ground
[Pixilate 99% | Pixie Plate 35%, Leftovers 19%, Choice Specs 15%]


03.
647.png
21.32%
Secret Sword, Steam Eruption, Water Spout, Vacuum Wave, Icy Wind
[Justified | Choice Specs 56%, Choice Scarf 18%]

04.
485.png
21.19%
King's Shield, Doom Desire, Stealth Rock, Earth Power, Flash Cannon, Searing Shot, Lava Plume, Blue Flare, Roar, Magma Storm
[Flash Fire | Leftovers 49%, Air Balloon 30%, Choice Scarf 17%]

05.
428-m.png
19.42%
Extreme Speed, High Jump Kick, Fake Out, Swords Dance, Ice Punch, Rapid Spin, Drain Punch
[Scrappy | Lopunnite]


06.
598.png
18.46%
Leech Seed, King's Shield, Spore, Gyro Ball, Synthesis, Stealth Rock, Horn Leech, Power Whip
[Iron Barbs 99% | Leftovers 54%, Rocky Helmet 42%]


07.
142.png
15.43%
Head Smash, Brave Bird, Earthquake, Taunt, Stealth Rock, Hone Claws, Fire Fang, Ice Fang, Roost
[Rock Head 99% | Life Orb 36%, Focus Sash 30%, Choice Band 22%]


08.
302.png
14.22%
Will-O-Wisp, Recover, Parting Shot, Topsy-Turvy, Destiny Bond, Foul Play, Curse, Taunt, Hex
[Prankster 99% | Leftovers 77%]


09.
217.png
11.46%
Extreme Speed, Fake Out, Close Combat, Crunch, Swords Dance, Facade, Play Rough, Earthquake
[Guts 98% | Flame Orb 59%, Toxic Orb 22%, Silk Scarf 13%]

10.
663.png
10.85%
Dragon Ascent, V-create, U-turn, Swords Dance, Sacred Fire, Roost, Brave Bird, Acrobatics, Extreme Speed, Flare Blitz
[Gale Wings 98% | Choice Band 22%, Life Orb 19%, Sharp Beak 11%, Leftovers 10%]

11.
248.png
10.50%
Diamond Storm, Knock Off, Pursuit, Stealth Rock, Sucker Punch, Earthquake, Superpower, Dragon Dance, Thunder Wave, Parting Shot
[Sand Stream 95% | Leftovers 32%, Choice Scarf 24%, Assault Vest 11%]

12.
006-my.png
10.23%
Oblivion Wing, Solar Beam, Blue Flare, Focus Blast, Roost, Tailwind, Dragon Pulse, Eruption, Earthquake, V-create, Fusion Flare
[Drought | Charizardite Y]

13.
212.png
9.66%
Gear Grind, Bullet Punch, U-turn, Superpower, Pin Missile, King's Shield, Swords Dance, Pursuit, Sticky Web
[Technician 77%, Swarm 22% | Choice Band 51%, Life Orb 22%, Leftovers 15%]

14.
381.png
9.12%
Draco Meteor, Psystrike, Defog, Roost, Surf, Hidden Power Fire, Spacial Rend, Psycho Boost, Memento, Reflect, Light Screen, Tailwind, Lunar Dance
[Levitate | Life Orb 72%, Light Clay 14%]


15.
479w.png
8.82%
Volt Switch, Steam Eruption, Pain Split, Nuzzle, Trick, Will-O-Wisp, Scald, Hidden Power Ice
[Levitate | Leftovers 62%, Choice Scarf 30%]


16.
497.png
8.78%
Leaf Storm, Spore, Hidden Power Fire, Substitute, Dragon Pulse, Hidden Power Ground, Leech Seed, Giga Drain
[Contrary 98% | Leftovers 77%]

17.
143.png
8.64%
Extreme Speed, Belly Drum, Crunch, Baton Pass, Earthquake, Soft-Boiled*, Recover*, Swords Dance, Slack Off*, Fire Punch, Curse
[Thick Fat 74%, Immunity 21% | Sitrus Berry 57%, Leftovers 29%]
*55% combined


18.
091.png
8.62%
Icicle Spear, Water Shuriken, Shell Smash, Rock Blast, Freeze-Dry
[Skill Link 99% | Focus Sash 77%, White Herb 15%]


19.
469.png
8.36%
Bug Buzz, Tail Glow, Oblivion Wing, Protect, Giga Drain, Aeroblast, Quiver Dance, Hidden Power Ground, Ancient Power
[Speed Boost 84%, Tinted Lens 16% | Focus Sash 54%, Life Orb 24%, Leftovers 14%]

20.
445.png
7.83%
Precipice Blades, Dragon Dance, Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Outrage, Stealth Rock, Stone Edge, Dragon Tail, Iron Head, Fire Fang, Dragon Rush, Substitute, Poison Jab
[Rough Skin 92% | Rocky Helmet 35%, Life Orb 14%, Lum Berry 14% Leftovers 11%]
 
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People are going to be talking about how many Pokemon have gotten worse thanks to the new rule but I've noticed a few Pokemon getting better actually. For example:
ecb738d6.gif

Exploud @ Life Orb
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shell Smash
- Boomburst
- Filler
- Filler

Exploud before in the STABmons metagame, was outclassed thanks to all other Normal types getting the combo of SS+BB, but now, it is one of the only Pokemon to be able to use this strategy thanks to naturally learning Boomburst and being able to use Shell Smash thanks to it being Normal.

Also for clarification, would Talonflame be able to learn V-Create and Defog thanks to Fire and Flying being different typings on it?
 
People are going to be talking about how many Pokemon have gotten worse thanks to the new rule but I've noticed a few Pokemon getting better actually. For example:
ecb738d6.gif

Exploud @ Life Orb
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shell Smash
- Boomburst
- Filler
- Filler

Exploud before in the STABmons metagame, was outclassed thanks to all other Normal types getting the combo of SS+BB, but now, it is one of the only Pokemon to be able to use this strategy thanks to naturally learning Boomburst and being able to use Shell Smash thanks to it being Normal.

Also for clarification, would Talonflame be able to learn V-Create and Defog thanks to Fire and Flying being different typings on it?

No. You either add status moves, or you add attacking moves.

Also super glad to see that Pory-Z and Sylveon are still banned, because I was making a stall team and those motherfuckers break everything short of Chansey, goddamnit.
 
Can't wait until this is playable. A lot of the old threats stay the same, ie Sableye, Thundy, Chansey, Ferro, Tyranitar, Gyarados, Lando T all have certain sets that are unaffected by this change. However some of the more borderline broken mons are checked. I am interested to see what gets a boost now in this "new" meta. Will we see more Snorlax/Ursaring/Lickilicky/Azumarill because they can legally run belly speed? Will Stoutland/Kanga still be used as fake speeders without any boosts? Will we still see shift gear scizor with bullet punch, or will it run other more defensive sets, ie sticky web, powder, roost, and such? Will stall teams see a rise (probably)? I could go on and on about STABmons favs I'm excited to see how this change will affect, Heatran loses either KS or DD, Togekiss loses its strong flying move to go with Geo, and so many more. I can't wait to teambuild and play this meta with these changes.
 
Interesting to see several pokemon that people wanted to see retested banned from the get-go. I didn't actually expect Porygon-Z and Sylveon be banned at least.
 
goodbye noctowl you were suprisingly decent while it lasted tbh ;~;
will be nice to test out some of the new stuff, and see the twists the meta brings via a slight change.
 
Despite King's Rock clause, is Cloyster as viable without flinch hacks with Water Shuriken? 1 smash outspeeds and probably ohkos any mons with prankster bar whimsicott
 
Despite King's Rock clause, is Cloyster as viable without flinch hacks with Water Shuriken? 1 smash outspeeds and probably ohkos any mons with prankster bar whimsicott
You're really inflating it. Water Shuriken is only 75 BP after Skill Link. Even defensive Lando-T can live at +1 and do about 60% back with Earthquake at -1, breaking its Sash and leaving it open to a follow up Extreme Speed from any strong Normal-type. Speaking of which, a Normal-type can come in on the smash and FakeSpeed it with -1 Defenses as well. White Herb will live, however.

+1 252 Atk Cloyster Water Shuriken (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 240-280 (62.8 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 135-159 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Ursaring Extreme Speed vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 154-183 (63.9 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Even Sableye lives and Topsies/Sleeps/Burns:

+2 252 Atk Cloyster Water Shuriken (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 170-210 (55.9 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

However, Freeze Dry sets will KO Landorus (which also help it get past Quagsire.) Either way it will struggle with Ferrothorn and other bulky walls that resist or even take neutral damage from Water and Ice.
 
Water Shuriken is moot with Icicle Spear on Lando. Some constant switches and intimidate stacks can neutralize a smash, but lando isn't exactly immune to smash 3-attacks cloyster. However, wisp miss leads to sab being 2hko. Espeed users can be dealt with if you don't mind losing herb/sash

Bar twave ferro, cloyster should typically handle it
+2 252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 200-240 (56.8 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 136-162 (56.4 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Water Shuriken just grants merits against non e-speed users, namely Talonflame
+2 252 Atk Cloyster Water Shuriken (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 520-630 (144.8 - 175.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
I was just showing how Water Shuriken isn't all its cracked up to be. I know Icicle Spear is better against Lando-T, and actually I think more run Freeze Dry anyway.
 
On the bright side, Talonflame can't revenge kill it after a smash unless it goes for the attacking move route with V-Create and Dragon Ascent, and even then it needs to use unSTABed ESpeed to do it. Overall though it has the same issues it had in standard OU, except that it might get walled even harder by Skarmory since most people will opt to use Water Shurriken as their water move over Hydro Pump and Freeze-Dry for their special move. I think standard might be SS / WS / Icicle Spear / Freeze-Dry or Hydro Pump. Rock Blast could be squeezed in there somehow, but I think the set I posted is probably going to be standard.
 
Oh I worded my original post poorly. I meant Smash 3 Attacks Cloyster 2hkos most mons, Water Shuriken lets it deal with prankster and idk Shift Gear Excadrill or something

And yes, I chose my words carefully saying "most mons" meaning it could probably deal with non extremespeed offense after a smash with that coverage, and deal with things not named skarmory/rotom-w with defense investments
 
Here is a co7ple of sets for Talonflame.

Talonflame @ Choice Band
EVs: 252 Atk / 80 Def / 176 Spe
Ability: Gale Wings
Nature: Adamant
- Dragon Ascent
- V-Create
- Extreme Speed
- Tailwind

Classic AoA set. Dragon Ascent is spammable, V-Create for walls, and Extreme Speed so it can do some damage to Fakespeeders.

Talonflame @ Sky Plate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Ability: Gale Wings
Nature: Adamant
- Shell Smash
- Brave Bird
- Roost
-
 
Here is a co7ple of sets for Talonflame.

Talonflame @ Choice Band
EVs: 252 Atk / 80 Def / 176 Spe
Ability: Gale Wings
Nature: Adamant
- Dragon Ascent
- V-Create
- Extreme Speed
- Tailwind

Classic AoA set. Dragon Ascent is spammable, V-Create for walls, and Extreme Speed so it can do some damage to Fakespeeders.

Talonflame @ Sky Plate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Ability: Gale Wings
Nature: Adamant
- Shell Smash
- Brave Bird
- Roost
-
Another option is Belly Drum + Acrobatics + Flare Blitz + Brave Bird/Roost. Dual STAB lets you do solid priority damage before boosting and attack without recoil after boosting (and eating your Sitrus Berry).

I don't know that +2 Speed on Talonflame is all that useful given that it's already sanic speed, so Shell Smash would really be competing with Swords Dance, which Tflame already gets. And Roost seems mildly useless when your bulk is that low after a Smash. Swords Dance + the three attacks on your Band set seems like a superior option overall.
 
Geomancy Togekiss is still a thing. Overall I think I'd give STABmons another try. It was my least favorite metagame because it was setup crazy.

Also, love the examples section Eevee General.
its been nerfed like crap though, as oblivion wing was a HUGE asset for offensive recovery, you know its bad when its FLINCH SET was outclassed by a super luck set.it will still be usable, but i forsee sets like nasty plot moonblast+air slash/oblivion wing gaining popularity due to the more utility+more setup chances throughout the game.
 
What are the bans and clauses?
STABmons follows the OU banlist. The following Pokemon and items are also banned:
  • Pokemon
    • Diggersby
    • Keldeo
    • Porygon-Z
    • Sylveon
  • Items
    • Aerodactylite
    • Altarianite
    • Lopunnite
    • Metagrossite
    • King's Rock
    • Razor Fang
uhhhhh

Porygon-Z with specs may be a bit too much, but I would think it should at least be retested. Sylveon, on the other hand, is broken why? In fact, the more I think about it, the more I realize its not broken at all; it is a fairy type meloetta with less bulk and slightly better coverage.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 220-261 (34.2 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The inability to boost means it has the most efficient special wall in the game, Chansey, to attempt to break past. If it was calm mind, it would have to get 2 off to break Chansey. Unlikely. This becomes similar to Mega Gardevoir in OU - a very hard hitter that has a couple counters. Notably, Jirachi now counters Sylveon, even if it doesn't invest in sDef. Either way, I don't see this being banworthy, in fact I see it as a decent hole puncher at best.

With Diggersby, if you go back in the thread, the entire argument was based around the fact that you didn't know when diggersby would set up and destroy you as you switch to your check/counter, and as a result it was too unpredictable to keep in the tier. The fact that many disagreed in the first place is one thing, but now? Without setup besides Swords Dance as a factor, Diggersby could easily be let back into the tier. With a rise in stall teams, it might not even be as overcentralizing in the first place. It is certainly something to look at.

Altarianite ban? Like Sylveon, it needs retesting. Altaria has Dragon Dance as its only setup now; so boomburst's use on setup Altaria is reserved to mixed sets only. Boomburst sets are just wallbreakers. DD Altaria doesn't even gain very much, since return is one of the best stabs for it already. With Shell Smash, it lacks Boomburst and ExtremeSpeed, which were the two crux moves of that set. It can't even run priority at that point, and can't run boomburst, leaving it walled by unaware users and easily revenge killed. This should easily be let back into the tier.

Aerodactylite is controversial, and I'm tempted to say that the shape of the new meta might bring rise to new checks and counters, but that applies to keldeo as well.

Lopunnite probably could use an unbanning as well; it gives offense a great fakespeeder that can't boost at all (Diggersby still can use swords dance). Belly Drum sets can't use priority, and SS sets waste speed and are also easily revenge killed. The Fakespeed set is an amazing set, with fake out reserving its speed tier and scrappy giving it perfect coverage and super effective hits against Sableye. The Fakespeed set might be a little bit too much anyways, but this is a good candidate for unbanning.

Metagrossite is a bit troublesome; losing Heavy Slam isn't too bad for it although Quagsire remains a hard counter. Metagross is just really powerful with any boost to its attack because tough claws is so good. Heavy Slam was nice, but Shift Gear will likely keep this over the top since it is near impossible to revenge kill and has massive bulk to set up.

These are things to be looked at for sure.
 
Sylveon, on the other hand, is broken why? In fact, the more I think about it, the more I realize its not broken at all; it is a fairy type meloetta with less bulk and slightly better coverage.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 220-261 (34.2 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The inability to boost means it has the most efficient special wall in the game, Chansey, to attempt to break past. If it was calm mind, it would have to get 2 off to break Chansey. Unlikely. This becomes similar to Mega Gardevoir in OU - a very hard hitter that has a couple counters. Notably, Jirachi now counters Sylveon, even if it doesn't invest in sDef. Either way, I don't see this being banworthy, in fact I see it as a decent hole puncher at best.

Shell Smash Sylveon can still smack Jirachi with Shadow Ball while outspeeding it, while Boomburst examples have Judgment coverage available.

I do agree that it seems odd to quickban Sylveon, and I was surprised at quickbanning Porygon-Z. They were some of the most extreme examples of "New Status moves+New Attack moves=murder".

I never saw Mega Loppuny enough to have a well-formed opinion on it, and the others I basically tend to be glad are banned regardless.

Look forward to playing NeoSTABmons, anyway.
 
uhhhhh

Porygon-Z with specs may be a bit too much, but I would think it should at least be retested. Sylveon, on the other hand, is broken why? In fact, the more I think about it, the more I realize its not broken at all; it is a fairy type meloetta with less bulk and slightly better coverage.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 220-261 (34.2 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The inability to boost means it has the most efficient special wall in the game, Chansey, to attempt to break past. If it was calm mind, it would have to get 2 off to break Chansey. Unlikely. This becomes similar to Mega Gardevoir in OU - a very hard hitter that has a couple counters. Notably, Jirachi now counters Sylveon, even if it doesn't invest in sDef. Either way, I don't see this being banworthy, in fact I see it as a decent hole puncher at best.

With Diggersby, if you go back in the thread, the entire argument was based around the fact that you didn't know when diggersby would set up and destroy you as you switch to your check/counter, and as a result it was too unpredictable to keep in the tier. The fact that many disagreed in the first place is one thing, but now? Without setup besides Swords Dance as a factor, Diggersby could easily be let back into the tier. With a rise in stall teams, it might not even be as overcentralizing in the first place. It is certainly something to look at.

Altarianite ban? Like Sylveon, it needs retesting. Altaria has Dragon Dance as its only setup now; so boomburst's use on setup Altaria is reserved to mixed sets only. Boomburst sets are just wallbreakers. DD Altaria doesn't even gain very much, since return is one of the best stabs for it already. With Shell Smash, it lacks Boomburst and ExtremeSpeed, which were the two crux moves of that set. It can't even run priority at that point, and can't run boomburst, leaving it walled by unaware users and easily revenge killed. This should easily be let back into the tier.

Aerodactylite is controversial, and I'm tempted to say that the shape of the new meta might bring rise to new checks and counters, but that applies to keldeo as well.

Lopunnite probably could use an unbanning as well; it gives offense a great fakespeeder that can't boost at all (Diggersby still can use swords dance). Belly Drum sets can't use priority, and SS sets waste speed and are also easily revenge killed. The Fakespeed set is an amazing set, with fake out reserving its speed tier and scrappy giving it perfect coverage and super effective hits against Sableye. The Fakespeed set might be a little bit too much anyways, but this is a good candidate for unbanning.

Metagrossite is a bit troublesome; losing Heavy Slam isn't too bad for it although Quagsire remains a hard counter. Metagross is just really powerful with any boost to its attack because tough claws is so good. Heavy Slam was nice, but Shift Gear will likely keep this over the top since it is near impossible to revenge kill and has massive bulk to set up.

These are things to be looked at for sure.
eehhh....about your post...

first, diggersby, most people ran its swords dance or its 4 attacks set. those were the sets i had the biggest problems with imo. but in reality, what banned diggers, was its fakespeeding, making so many offensive pokemon turn to shit, while its secondary stab 2hkoed every neutral wall in the game unboosted.

altarianite is mainly due to fakespeed+boomburst on top of having perfect coverage moves in either fire blast, or earthquake, depending on which side you invest harder in. sure losing smash was SUPER destructive for it, but i can see why they opposed the suspect, its still not something offense would be keen on facing.

loppunite was one i myself was controversial about, i agree, a suspect SHOULD'VE been considered, but loppuny sits at a speed tier where it doesn't even really NEED priority, it can just subdrum with drain punch and return, and be very very problematic for offense (doesnt HAVE to set up a drum btw), while stall is pretty hard pressed to stop it without unaware. i still feel a suspect should be considered with both these things in mind though.
 
Honestly Mega Slowbro is gonna be a problem, as the main focus has always been Cosmic Power + Shell Armor, making it unable to be taken doing easily with crits. Stored Power was just another benefit, but I think CP is still gonna be a problem, that should at least be taken account for especially due to the decrease of setup sweepers in this new meta.

I am open to a Loppunite and Metagrossite retest aswell. Mega Lopp lost SD with Espeed, if it runs BD or SD, it has problems with Sableye due to the lack of prority. Mega Metagross loses Heavy Slam with Shist Gear. Although it would be a bully setup sweeper, Mega Scizor also falls into the similar category aswell (to a lesser extent).

P.S If Mega Lopp gets retested, Diggersby should aswell to very similar reasons
 
I already miss the old version of STABmons.

Regardless, I'm thinking of trying QD Forretress. It sounds weird, but think about it like Crocune. QD Forretress with RestTalk would only really be weak to fire types and the great Sableye. Still, its a gimmick, and gimmicks are worth testing.

Will post more after I try out this metagame.
 
I already miss the old version of STABmons.

Regardless, I'm thinking of trying QD Forretress. It sounds weird, but think about it like Crocune. QD Forretress with RestTalk would only really be weak to fire types and the great Sableye. Still, its a gimmick, and gimmicks are worth testing.

Will post more after I try out this metagame.

You know, if you're ok with dealing with status you could even run Heal Order alongside QD to give you two attacking moves or room for random other shit.
 
For those of you calling for a Diggers retest, take a look again at what reliably counters Diggersby: nothing. Diggersby has the coverage or STAB options to 2hko the entire tier, it's only drawback being it just can't run it all on one set. Lando-T falls to Ice Punch, Gourgeist to Knock off, Skarmory to Wild Charge (assuming no KS), Tangrowth to Double Edge, even Mega Bro fears Diggers at least a little. Banded Double Edge/Wild Charge can 2hko Mega Bro! Combine this with the fact that Diggers invalidates alot of offense with his powerful Fake Speed, and you get something that should never see the light of day in STABmons ever again.
 
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