Battle Maison Discussion & Records

[Eppie]

The fact th

Posting an ongoing streak of 1000 wins in Super Singles.

Battle video: #1000 - 7EDW-WWWW-WWW9-G89P vs. Ambipom/Armaldo/Weezing (the previous battle #529 Singles video was removed in its place)



The team is Dragonite/Aegislash/Greninja V2. A quick summary of the relatively large (500-more-wins-and-counting large, at least) changes:
-Scald on Greninja instead of Surf
-All Pokémon re-EV'd
-Aegislash re-bred to hit 79 Speed
-Greninja's item changed to Choice Specs, with a new EV spread to take advantage of it

Dragonite @ Lum Berry ** Nosedrip
Ability: Multiscale
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 52 HP, 252 Atk, 12 Def, 4 SDef, 188 Spe
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Dragon Dance

EV Notes

The Speed EVs hit 124 Speed, enough to outspeed Tyrantrum4 by 1 point. It's the same spread I used in Rotations - it is also viable here, though for different reasons. Greninja is cut to 184 from 191; the same things that make this possible also enable Dragonite to be cut to 124 (186 at +1).

Cherry-picked calcs - the cut isn't big, but it does make a difference:
252+ Atk Rhyperior Rock Slide vs. 52 HP / 12 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 76-91 (43.9 - 52.6%)
252+ SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 52 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite on a critical hit: 146-174 (84.3 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Aegislash @ Leftovers ** Repulsor
Ability: Stance Change
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 27 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Stats: 79 Speed
- King's Shield (seems like I mistakenly called it King's Guard in the V1 write-up, which I copy-pasted as the template)
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword

EV and IV/Nature Notes

I previously used a dumb spread that wasn't 252/252. I've learned my lesson - there are cases where spreading out makes sense, and cases where it doesn't. Aegislash in the Maison is very much the prime example of a Pokémon you should never stray from 252/252 with; there simply is no better way to EV this thing for the Maison. The Aegislash used here is imperfect - a Speed IV of 28 or 29 would give it 79 Speed without needing Speed EVs. Since the IV is only 27, 4 Speed EVs are needed to hit the Speed target.

Why 79 Speed? It avoids tying with 80-Speeders, is preferable to 81 Speed, and stomps 58 Speed in Singles in general.

Adamant 79 Speed vs Brave 58 Speed analysis

First, here are the speed tiers to watch when considering what Speed you want for Aegislash in the Maison:

80 - Abomasnow (1,2), Empoleon (1,2,4), Lapras (2,3,4), Magnezone (1,3,4), Swampert (2,3,4), ALL Sylveon, Wailord (3,4), ALL Weezing, ALL Whiscash
79 - Adamant Aegislash (79 Speed, imperfect Speed IV)
78 - ALL Aurorus, Scrafty (1,3,4)
77 - Lickilicky 1, Mr. Mime 2
76 - Emboar 2, Flareon 3, Scizor (1,3), Torterra (1,3,4), Trevenant (1,2,3), Vaporeon 1
75 - Ampharos (1,3), ALL Blissey, Bouffalant (1,3,4), Exeggutor 3, Golurk (1,3), Machamp 4, Ursaring (1,3,4)
72 - Abomasnow (3,4), Empoleon 3, Lapras 1, Magnezone 2, Swampert 1, Tyranitar 4, Wailord 1
70 - Aggron (1,3), Beartic (2,3), Carbink (1,2), Donphan (2,4), Eelektross (2,4), Hariyama (2,4), Lickilicky (2,3,4), Muk (2,4), Rampardos (1,4), Regice (1,3,4), Regirock (1,2,3), Registeel (1,3,4), Tangrowth (1,3,4), Vileplume (2,3)
68 - ALL Druddigon
67 - Ampharos (2,4), Bouffalant 2, Exeggutor (2,4), Golurk 2, Hippowdon (1,2,3), Machamp (1,2)
65 - Armaldo (3,4), Conkeldurr (1,3), Dusknoir 1, Golem 1, Granbull 2, Marowak 1, Throh (1,3)
63 - Aggron (2,4), Beartic 1, Carbink 4, Cradily 1, Donphan (1,3), Eelektross (1,3), Hariyama (1,3), Muk (1,3)
60 - Forretress (1,2,4), Hippowdon 4, ALL Probopass, Rhyperior 3, Vespiquen 3, Regigigas (1,3,4) during Slow Start
59 - Gastrodon (1,2,4)
58 - Armaldo 1, Dusknoir (3,4), Granbull 1, Throh (2,4), Brave Aegislash (58 Speed, 0 Speed IV)

Let's go through each Pokémon. Set4 and Veteran Pokémon only; Sword KO means Sacred Sword is an OHKO, Sneak KO means Shadow Sneak is an OHKO.

80-Speed: both 79 and 58 underspeed them, 80 Speed ties them which is bad, 81 Speed outspeeds them; the option of going for 81 Speed is examined in the next paragraph or two
Aurorus4 - 79 Speed wins: +0 Sword KO
Scrafty4 - 58 Speed wins: 58 Speed can set up on it due to Payback's lower BP
Torterra4- 79 Speed wins; +6 Sword KO
Blissey4 - 79 Speed wins: +6 Sword KO, +0 Sword 2HKO
Bouffalant4 - 79 Speed wins: +6 Sword KO
Machamp4 - Tie: +6 Sneak KO
Ursaring4 - 79 Speed wins: +6 Sword KO, immune to Sneak
Abomasnow4 - Tie: +6 Sneak KO
Tyranitar4 - 58 Speed wins: Focus Sash
Donphan4 - Tie: it's Donphan. STAB EQ can crit you, Fissure may kill you, Quick Claw and Sturdy to sweeten the deal. Sure hope you have a Ground-immune ally you can switch in.
Eelektross4 - 79 Speed wins: +6 Sneak is a 75% chance to KO, +6 Sword is 100%
Hariyama4 - 79 Speed wins: +6 Sword KO
Lickilicky4: 79 Speed wins: +6 Sword KO
Muk4: Tie: Aegislash walls it
Rampardos4: Tie: +6 Sneak KO
Regice1,3,4: 79 Speed wins - +2 Sword is an OHKO (except for Regice3, on which +2 Sword is only a 81.3% KO), +6 Sneak is a 31.3% KO at best; killing it before it paralyzes you with Thunderbolt or Thunder Wave is good
Regirock1,2,3: 58 Speed wins - Sturdy
Registeel1,3,4: 79 Speed wins - +6 Sword KO
Tangrowth4: 58 Speed wins - +6 Sword is only a 81.3% chance to KO
Druddigon4: 79 Speed wins - +6 Sword KO while +6 Sneak is a 93.8% chance to KO
Ampharos4: 79 Speed wins - +6 Sword KO, +6 Sneak is a 81.3% chance to KO
Exeggutor4: Tie - Aegislash walls it
Armaldo4: 79 Speed wins - +6 Sword KO, +6 Sneak is a 43.8% chance to OHKO
Aggron4: 58 Speed wins - Sturdy
Carbink4: Tie - Carbink
Forretress4: Tie - Aegislash walls it
Hippowdon4: 79 Speed wins - +6 Sword KO
Probopass4: 58 Speed wins - Sturdy
Regigigas1,3,4: 79 Speed wins - getting hit with Confuse Ray before moving is bad
Gastrodon4: 79 Speed wins - +6 Sword KO

Summary: 79 Speed wins against 15 species; 58 Speed wins against 6 species; the remaining 8 are tied

From this analysis of the most common AI Pokémon in this Speed range, I think 79 Speed (Adamant, imperfect Speed IV) is superior to 58 Speed (Brave, 0 Speed IV) for Maison Singles purposes under normal circumstances due to its ability to outspeed and OHKO multiple threats with +6 Sacred Sword where 58 Speed would need to take a hit.

81 Speed is an alternate Speed point that requires no bizarre-IV breeding to reach to avoid 80-Speed ties and better kill Swampert4, Empoleon4 (if it doesn't have Sub), and Whiscash4 (Wailord4 is OHKO'd by Sneak, so it is not a concern for this); howewer, these come at the cost of losing to Magnezone4 if it has Sturdy and doing worse against Empoleon4 when it has a Substitute (which it does if you set up on it). Zone and Empoleon are the bigger threats to Aegislash and the team, so I prefer 79 to it.

Also, 58 Speed is not necessarily ideal for Brave Aegislash in the Maison - but it is the most common one, so we're using it as a comparison point here. You could go up to 61 Speed, for example, to avoid speed tying any of the 60-58 Speed Pokémon, and outspeed Regigigas, Gastrodon and Hippowdon; or go for 66 Speed to outspeed Armaldo; or 69 to outspeed Druddigon and Ampharos... or you could just go for Adamant 79 Speed, which is the ideal speed point for a Maison Singles Aegislash in my opinion.

Greninja @ Choice Specs ** Glenn II
Ability: Protean
Nature: Timid
EVs: 92 HP, 12 Def, 196 SAtk, 4 SDef, 204 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Dark Pulse
- Scald

EV Notes

I came up with the idea of an SAtk-cut Greninja with Specs (to avoid Life Orb Damage and enable the power cut) to partially get around its traditional bulk problems and even beat many of its usual counters when improving Cloyster/Gliscor/Greninja. Being locked into Specs is less problematic than I thought, and not taking Life Orb damage lets it beat Weavile reliably, barring a Night Slash crit. 92 HP hits 159 HP, minimizing residual damage and being optimal for bulk with 12/4 in Def/SDef.

Key calcs:
252+ SpA Expert Belt Vaporeon Signal Beam vs. 92 HP / 4 SpD Greninja: 132-156 (83 - 98.1%)

Yes, Greninja beats Vaporeon4 1-on-1 at full HP. I never thought I'd see the day, but it's here. It also 2HKOs Ludicolo, 2HKOs Empoleon after it has used Sub, and does other neat things.

252 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 92 HP / 12 Def Greninja on a critical hit: 138-163 (86.7 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

And it can also switch in to Garchomp4 with a small risk, only having a 1.175% chance to get KO'd when doing so. Previously, I had to sac Dragonite to get Chomp - with this spread, my preferred play is switching in Greninja, and hoping for no high-damage roll crit. The 1.175% risk is higher than when saccing Dragonite, but losing Dragonite and meeting Donphan as a second Pokémon with just Greninja and Aegislash left is a bigger risk (Donphan is Set B along with Garchomp, and also accompanies it on type specialist trainers that carry Ground-types). I don't know the exact number, but I'm sure the risk of Donphan if saccing Nite on Garchomp is greater than the 1.175% chance of Greninja getting KO'd on the switch-in, if Chomp even uses Dragon Claw (Swords Dance and Stone Edge are also plays it can make).

The change may seem small, but it is huge. I think this Greninja is much better than any Life Orb one for Singles; previously, I thought Suicune was the #1 Water-type in the Maison, and Greninja was #2. Today, with this spread and item choice, I think Greninja is #1 and I'd rather have it over Suicune any day of the week, even if Item Clause didn't exist to prevent Suicune from co-existing on the same team with Aegislash. Though they occupy slightly different positions, of course, so a direct comparison is not entirely possible. And well, Greninja currently beats Suicune on the leaderboard as well, which is another argument in its favor.

Posting is hard, so the promised Cloyster/Gliscor/Greninja write-up is going to have to be delayed for a bit. This is the highest goodstuffs streak on the leaderboards right now, but Jumpman16 said he had an ongoing streak between 50 and 1253 wins, so it's likely that he's the true leader in the category right now. Both this streak and his are ongoing, though, so there is still hope for giving him a run for his money.

The fact that Jumpman posted leads me to think that he actually broke Vaporeonice's record but hey, that should only motivate you to wreck havoc in Super Singles ;).

 

[Jumpman16]

maybe i did, maybe i didn't...

very nice work turskain! a joy to see dragonite go so far, and an absolute joy to see specs used on greninja. i always wanted to try that despite the obvious and heretofore unquestioned "detriment" of not locking yourself in. dragonite and aegislash get all but electric and so there is a bit of backdoor synergy covering an otherwise frail specs user that will have to do its share of switching, love it.

i may love it even more because greninja is the pokemon that made me rethink team Suizorus. stay tuned etc

my streak is still going, and i'm still between 50 and 1253, but i may not be tomorrow. sorry if my vagueness is annoying (i would be slightly annoyed in anyone else's shoes), but a little gamesmanship never hurt anybody right

 

[Eppie]

maybe i did, maybe i didn't...

very nice work turskain! a joy to see dragonite go so far, and an absolute joy to see specs used on greninja. i always wanted to try that despite the obvious and heretofore unquestioned "detrmient" of not locking yourself in. dragonite and aegislash get all but electric and so there is a bit of backdoor synergy covering an otherwise frail specs user that will have to do its share of switching, love it.

i may love it even more because greninja is the pokemon that made me rethink team Suizorus. stay tunes etc

my streak is still going, and i'm still between 50 and 1253, but i may not be tomorrow. sorry if my vagueness is annoying (i would be slightly annoyed in anyone else's shoes), but a little gamesmanship never hurt anybody right

The vagueness is what makes this thread so enoyable from time to time n__n.

 

[StarKO]

Looks like I'm the only one who thinks Jump was just teasing us and actually hasn't had time to work on a new streak at all (yet) haha

edit: nvm :p didn't read all the new posts

 

[turskain]

VOLCARONA SAYS HI.















Remember how I said being locked into Specs wasn't that bad? Well, against most things it isn't, but Volcarona isn't like most things.

You know how that went - I'm locked into IB, Volcarona comes in, fearing a QD I go to Nite (who's damaged and without Lum, risking a Heat Wave burn if it attacks instead of QD'ing)

It uses Heat Wave and not QD and doesn't burn, great

DD, it QDs; I'm damaged and afraid of Hurricane + confusion, so I go for Outrage at +1, knowing that +1 Outrage followed by +1 Sneak is a likely KO after LO recovery; though if it QDs again and gets two turns of recovery, the odds are worse

It QD's, Outrage is a low damage roll, it recovers twice with Leftovers but is still at ~21-22% and firmly in KO range for +0 Sneak, we've got this

Another low damage roll, KO missed by 2% or something

+2 Volc outspeeds Greninja, nothing to be done

Bye bye streak

That was battle 1011, so the streak is 1010 - Jumpman and VaporeonIce win, I suck. Well, at least I got top 3, which is better than top 5

Battle video later when I write more things.

Edit: In retrospect, I lost because I misplayed at several points:

0) Locking into Ice Beam unnecessarily - this was a misplay, but not a losing one by any means, just a minor inconvenience

1) switching in Lum-less Nite on Heat Wave - there was no reason to take the risk, but it was the first case I met Volcarona in this situation without an intact Lum on Nite, so I made the wrong call - this didn't lose me the game yet, though, since it didn't burn. The correct play would've been to keep Greninja in and get it KO'd

2) Outraging at +1 - the standard play I did in this situation every time before this was DDing to +2 and then Outraging, which would've been the winning play even though the situation was slightly different from usual this time.

3) The sum of these misplays enabled unlucky damage rolls to cause a loss; without the misplays, it was a very likely victory, barring insane predictions/plays from the AI - which were very unlikely, given Volcarona has always made the same plays in this situation when I faced it many times before during the streak; I was too fearful of its "randomness" from seeing it act erratically against other teams/in other modes, when it really isn't random at all in case it comes in on Grass/Ice Greninja which it OHKOs hard without set-up, judging from it doing the exact same thing every time this situation happened before. The only possible exception would be if Dragonite was damaged enough to be in KO range for +1 Cane, which it wasn't - in such a case, switching it in and then going for straight Outrage and hoping it only QDs to +1 (still outsped by Greninja) would probably be the right play.

4) The reason the usual play is double DD is because Volcarona typically comes in as 2nd Pokémon when Grass/Ice Greninja KOs the AI's lead; "last Pokémon Volcarona" as seen here is much more rare. You would still want to DD twice even on last Pokémon Volc, though, as there's a high likelihood it may boost to +2 anyway, and straight Outrage will not 2HKO in the high likelihood of a Flame Body burn. Maybe if you had Lum, it would be viable, but if you have Lum you don't fear Volcarona anyway and there's no way to lose



Seeing what Volc did, keeping Greninja in to IB for chip damage while it magically doesn't QD would've been a winning play, as would've been going for a second DD (which is what I do if I have a higher-HP Nite and and intact Lum in case of Hurricane - which I didn't) - but if it did QD, doing that would've lost me the game. Better damage rolls would've helped; calcs were done:

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 162-192 (84.3 - 100%)
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 40-48 (20.8 - 25%)

Outrage is 92% average, after two turns of Leftovers recovery if it QD's it's still getting KO'd by Sneak... except if Outrage is a low damage roll

Nite might also not have been in KO range for +1 Cane, so DDing might have been safe, right? Except Volcarona is an asshole and sometimes does random things, and if there's no Lum you know what's going to happen, and Outrage + Sneak is a likely KO, it'll be fiiiiine

Volcarona sure is fun, a'ight?



That's all, folks. Specs was still the right choice (I mean, it got 1000+ wins, it can't be that bad) and salvaged a couple of battles and crits/burns that Life Orb Greninja would've lost to, and the streak would've surely ended a few times by now if I wasn't using Specs, but still...

Now to drown my sorrows in Scizor+Sharpedo+Rotom-W+Arcanine (Flash Fire), items Band/Sash/Specs/Scarf in Doubles, shamelessly ripped off of flavor0's team.

Edit: battle video edited into the team write-up
Edit: a bunch of neat things edited into the write-up

 

[NoCheese]

Always painful to lose, and the longer the streak, the worse it feels, but congrats on a wonderful run of singles, turskain! I've updated the leaderboard through here.

 

[Jumpman16]

here is a youtube video about a thing. my 48 subscribers have been waiting for this shit for a LONG time lol

 

[Lumari]

here is a youtube video about a thing. my 48 subscribers have been waiting for this shit for a LONG time lol

-> uses team with lead Kangaskhan with a huge weakness against lead Terrakion1
-> is shown a team with lead Kangaskhan featuring Gliscor
-> curses own stupidity

Lol apparently there's hope for tweaking my mindless pile of brokemons once I lose ;)
Really cool team, looking forward to seeing how far it'll get. Glad to see Suicune still going strong, and yeah, Gliscor... would kinda cover all weak spots of my current team lol, unfortunately I've got a policy against changing teams mid-streak because there'll always be some oversight that'll cause me to lose unexpectedly.

 

[Jumpman16]

haha no worries, Dutch! you shouldn't worry about changing mid-streak, i thought i may before but I'm way over than when i'm confident that whatever change i'm making will be an improvement. just put some thought into it to preempt any aforementioned oversights

 

[NoCheese]

Nice team, and as you say, that Speed-Power combination is really impressive!! I'm still a big softie for Substitute Suicune, but I certainly can't argue with the results you've seen with Icy Wind. And Gliscor's Maison stock has gone way, way up of late.

As to the video:
1. Great commentary. I didn't expect to enjoy watching someone else play a whole bunch of Subway battles, but the commentary really helped.
2. That Larvitar is awesome!
3. I'd never be able to record like that, as I fidget way too much when playing.

Certainly looking forward to seeing you crack 1000.

 

[turskain]

Nice video. There was a small error, though - when Nidoking4 hit MegaKhan with Poison Jab at 26 minutes, you said it was a weaker move, but it had Sheer Force judging from the damage, which makes it more powerful than Earthquake.

I'm curious about why you run an SDef-focused Careful Gliscor (I might've missed the reasoning in the video). Is it for handling Tornadus? I'm worried about the low Speed, but I guess it doesn't need as much Speed if it has MegaKhan and Suicune with Icy Wind in the back, and is in more of a glue role.

The Dutch Plumberjack, you indeed shouldn't worry too much about changing things mid-streak, as Jumpman said already. If there's a clear improvement or "the team sucks" as you might say, why not?

 

[Mkurt]

Hello, I finally won all trophies in the Battle Maison and I'm very happy of this.
Below you can find the description of all my teams with comments, threat analysis and videos.
But first I would like to thank very much all the people who maintain and contribute to this thread. This thread has provided to me so many information, help and hours of fun.

SINGLE TEAM:

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate/Huge Power
EVs: 252 Hp/252 Att/4 Sdef
Nature: Brave
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sword Dance
- Sucker Punch


Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Nature: Adamant
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Fire punch
- Thunder punch


Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Def / 124 SDef
Nature: Brave
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak
- King's Shield
- Sword Dance


Comments: The first Pokemon to go in is Mawile. MegaMawile is my favorite mega evolution because of his awesome types and Mega-ability.

The first thing I do is to check if my opponent has dangerous stab moves like earthquake or powerful fighting moves. If not, just go for a Sword dance.

After Sword dance, Huge power MegaMawile is quite unstoppable. Then I use to just Sucker punch every opponent that out-speed me and hit the others with Iron Head or Play Rough.

If I think my opponent will use earthquake on Mawile, I switch for Dragonite.

Multiscale Dragonite is made to Outrage everything don't resist it and, with the help of Lum berry, he can keep going on for a long time.

The final resource is Aegislash. In my opinion Aegislash is by far the best Pokemon of the sixth generation. Perfect combination of types, perfect ability and the best move-pool ever seen.

I scout for dangerous moves with King's Shield and potentially reduce your opponent's attack by two stage. If my opponent is not too dangerous (easy because Aegislash is very very resistant!) I start to use Sword Dance until I have the attack +6.

Shadow Sneak has priority and so I don't have to fear anything even from an opponent that out-speed Slash.

Finally you have Sacred sword to put down minimize or double team abusers.


Threats: Earthquake, earthquake and earthquake. Change to Dragonite every time you suspect an earthquake is coming.


Battle Video of my 50th battle: S5EW-WWWW-WWW9-9KW9

DOUBLE TEAM:

Politoed @ Absorb Bulb
Ability: Drizzle
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / ?? Def / ?? SpD
- Scald
- Protect
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance


Ludicolo @ Life orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Speed / 4 HP
- Surf
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump


Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Speed / 4 HP
- Surf
- Dragon Pulse
- Cannonflash
- Hydro Pump


Dragonite @ Yache berry
Ability: Multiscale
Nature: Modest
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Earthquake
- Roost


Comments: This is a pretty classic rain team. The first couple is composed by Politoed and Ludicolo. Politoed in order to cast rain and Ludicolo because is bulkier than Kingdra and has good coverage and duration with Giga Drain. I generally spam Surf on the opponent's team and on Politoed. Politoed takes few damage and with Absorb Bulb his SP.Attack raises.

I use Hydro pump only in case of emergency and Ice beam for dragons and grass-type pokemons.

When Ludicolo faints, Kingdra can take down fast the most dangerous opponent with Hydro Pump. If the opponent's team has many bulky water types, Dragonite is a better choice thanks to thunder.


Venusaur is one of the reasons why I need Dragonite in the team and, most of the time, Hurricane will save your match.

Threats: Generally I have great problems with Ice-type pokemons, Abomasnow on everything (I use Dragonite's Hurricane to lower his energy and 2HOK him with the help of another faster pokemon)

Obviously a Tyranitar or an Hippowdon after Politoed went down are very dangerous. Luckily both of them are weak to water moves.

Another threats is every pokemon with a strong poison move: if Ludicolo faints too fast, the team loses a lot in longevity.


Battle Video of my 51th battle : HTFG-WWWW-WWW9-EQ58

TRIPLE TEAM:

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Position: Center
Ability: Drizzle
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / ?? Def / ?? SpD
- Scald
- Protect
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance


Lapras @ Wide Lens
Ability: Water absorb
Nature: Docile
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 Spd
- Protect
- Frost Breath
- Surf
- Perish song


Ludicolo @ Life orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Speed / 4 HP
- Surf
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump


Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Speed / 4 HP
- Surf
- Dragon Pulse
- Cannonflash
- Hydro Pump


Dragonite @ Yache berry
Ability: Multiscale
Nature: Modest
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Earthquake
- Protecti


Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron arbs
Nature: Brave
EVs: 252 HP / 252 AtK / 4 Def
- Gyro ball
- Power Whip
- Toxic
- Curse


Comments: The same team of doubles with the addition of Lapras and Ferrothorn.

I was in need of two pokemons able to stall the match in case of Ludicolo and Kingdra faints too fast.

Ferrothorn is a wall and curse is a perfect move for him. He gain Attack and defense and his Gyro all became stronger. Fire is not a problem under rain and, in any case, not a problem for the rest of the team.

But the ace of the team is Lapras. Bulky as much as possible and with water absorb.

First turn: I put into play Ludicolo, Kingdra and Politoed (center position). Then I choose surf with Ludicolo, surf with Kingdra and I change Politoed for Lapras.

Lapras come in and doesn't take any damage from ally. All opponents are hit by surf and the pokemon in the middle position takes two hits (two surf under rain, one with life orb boost, the other with choice specs boost).

Result: the opponent Pokemon in center position faints (99% of the time) and the other are seriously damaged. Obviously, during the game, Lapras takes more hit than the others because of the center position but, with the great defense and great bulkiness, Lapras can take a lot of damage.

The second turn, I go for two surf again and Lapras gain HP two times (50% of the maximum). I use Wide lens on Lapras because I don't want to miss Frost Breath in a critical moment (I need Leftover on Ferrothorn because is the only way for him to gain HP and Lapras has already the recover given by Water Absorb).


Threats: Few. Maybe Trick Room but not to much thanks to the low speed of Ferrothorn and Lapras.


Battle Video of my 50th battle : P2WG-WWWW-WWW9-9JVM

ROTATION TEAM:

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy/Parental Bond
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk /252 Spe/ 4 HP
- Return
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Power-Up Punch


Greninja @ Life orb
Ability: Protean
Nature: Timid
EVs: HP 4/SpA 252/Spe 252
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
- Hidden power (Flying)


Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Nature Cure
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/ 4 SpD
Nature: Bold
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Aromatherapy
- Seismic Toss


Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Def / 124 SDef
Nature: Brave
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak
- King's Shield
- Sword Dance


Comments: The team is built around Kangaskhan. I use Aegislash to cover the weakness to fighting moves and Greninja to hit hard rock types.

Kangaskhan Power-Up punch is great and after it, few Pokemon resists a double-return (Return instead of double edge because I need Khan on the field as long as possible).

Greninja is a real factotum and Extrasensory is very useful versus poison-type Pokemons that are widely used in rotation battles (at least in my streaks). With ice beam, Greninja has a great coverage without losing STAB and I use Scald instead of Hydro Pump because I don't want to miss a hit with Greninja (with his low defenses, the first move can be the last move).

Hidden power flying is to avoid ground moves but I rarely used it (Dark Pulse would have been a better choice).

Aegislash is the one I used in single battles and do his works very well cleaning the field after a +6 attack boost.

Chansey is a great wall and Aromatherapy is the most useful move. It happened so many times that Khan become paralyzed or heated. Aromatherapy can restore the situation many times and Kangaskhan can return to sweep without any problem.


With soft-boilded, Chansey can stall and slowly destroy an entire opponent's team.

Threats: The team, in my opinion, is well balanced and there is no many threats. Ghost types could be annoying because can hit very hard Aegislash and avoid all normal and fighting moves (I have many of those). In that case its better to just not Megaevolve Kangaskhan in order to re-balance the situation.


Battle Video of my 51th battle: EVWW-WWWW-WWW9-EQ9U

MULTI TEAM:

MyTeam:

Cresselia @ Iron Ball
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Sp.D / 108 Def
Nature: Hardy
- Trick Room
- Lunar Dance
- Psychic
- Moon Blast

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy/Parental Bond
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Atk / 4 Def
- Return
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Power-Up Punch


Team of my girlfriend:
Aron (M) @ Berry Juice
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Sturdy
Level 1
EVs: 0
- Protect
- Endeavor
- Toxic
- Rock Slide

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Nature: Brave
Ability: Iron Fist

EVs: 108 HP/252 Atk/148 Sp.Def
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Close Combat


Comments: This team is built entirely by me but I've exchanged Aron and Conkeldurr with my girlfriend in order to play Multi Battles.

Obviously this team is based on Aron's Endeavor and the mechanics are well known.

In the first turn I always choose Protect on Aron and Trick Room on Cresselia. The AI try always to hit Aron and Cresselia has quite always one free turn to set Trick Room.

I have chosen Cresselia as trick room setter because she have wonderful bulkiness and defenses. Its very hard to take down Cresselia and, in this team, inflict a lot of damage is not important. Cresselia only need to hit the opponent weakened by Endeavor.

I use Iron Ball on Cresselia only because I want to be sure to "outspeed" every opponent under Trick room. I lose Levitate but its not too bad.

I use Kangaskhan in a slower version compared to the one I used in Rotation Battles. I preferred to put more EVs on HP in order to survive longer.

Conkeldurr is perfect under Trick Room and Knock off is his most useful move. I use Close Combact because I want to have the chance to take down the opponent with one hit.


Threats: All the moves or abilities that avoid Aron's Sturdy. If Aron faints in the first turn, this team will have some bad moments. Always use protect in the first turn to scout dangerous moves and, under Trick room, target the Pokemon with the move that can break Sturdy.

Sometimes ghost-type Pokemons could be a threat but, in that case, Conkeldurr's Knock off will be your best friend.


Battle Video of my 50th battle : 6CDW-WWWW-WWW9-FKLU

 

[Jumpman16]

Nice team, and as you say, that Speed-Power combination is really impressive!! I'm still a big softie for Substitute Suicune, but I certainly can't argue with the results you've seen with Icy Wind. And Gliscor's Maison stock has gone way, way up of late.

As to the video:
1. Great commentary. I didn't expect to enjoy watching someone else play a whole bunch of Subway battles, but the commentary really helped.
2. That Larvitar is awesome!
3. I'd never be able to record like that, as I fidget way too much when playing.

Certainly looking forward to seeing you crack 1000.

Thanks man. Like I note at the beginning of the video, Suicune's 113 speed is less necessary than it was on Team Suizorus, but it still helps to be able to slow stuff down for Kanga or Gliscor to have the upper hand.

In response:

1. I love love love watching other people play things, that biases me sightly but I try to make my videos entertaining anyway
2. Thank you! It's my girlfriend's lol, she got it in Japan in like 2000 at a McDonald's?
3. Yeah the main issue was adjusting the brightness (laptop, 3DS and room). I'm able to keep pretty still though

Nice video. There was a small error, though - when Nidoking4 hit MegaKhan with Poison Jab at 26 minutes, you said it was a weaker move, but it had Sheer Force judging from the damage, which makes it more powerful than Earthquake.

I'm curious about why you run an SDef-focused Careful Gliscor (I might've missed the reasoning in the video). Is it for handling Tornadus? I'm worried about the low Speed, but I guess it doesn't need as much Speed if it has MegaKhan and Suicune with Icy Wind in the back, and is in more of a glue role.

Thanks, I've made note of that. And yes, Tornadus is the like only reason lol. I was using an Impish 252HP/252Def/4Spe Gliscor until Hurrrrrrrnadus' dumbass made me reconsider. I wouldn't run any speed on Gliscor anyway (besides the 4 EVs I have), because there is a lot of utility in being able to maintain a sub against faster pokes I can Sub against. Main reason is that I can't spare any SpD, as I'll explain in my formal writeup

 

[Lumari]

haha no worries, Dutch! you shouldn't worry about changing mid-streak, i thought i may before but I'm way over than when i'm confident that whatever change i'm making will be an improvement. just put some thought into it to preempt any aforementioned oversights

off to the institute then ;) fortunately there's a fuckton of gliscor theorymon in this thread because i'm quite sure the impish 204 hp / 68 def / 236 spe gliscor i currently have is gonna require some tweaking... Tornadus kinda shits on my team too lol (well i 'beat' it if there are no hiccups, but dark pulse flinch/crit happens)
Anyhow, I might have to think this through more thoroughly, because if Khan goes down, I really don't wanna face Volcarona with Aegislash and Gliscor >.>
turskain yeah I've probably said a few times that the team sucks ^_^ Gliscor would solve its problems of being automatically 1,5 mon down against lead Terrakion1 and being unable to deal with status (my only safety net is a single lum berry, that seems to be kinda inadequate for a team of three physical attackers but hasn't been that awful in practice). However, while it's completely thrown together it accidentally turned out to have some nifty bits of defensive synergy (i also say it sucks because i find it really annoying that my numerically best team is the one i didn't consciously build) and bringing in Gliscor would give some new problems that I probably wouldn't notice (not all of them at least) until it's too late, I REALLY have to think this through well. I can do that while I continue my gorgeous triples streak ;)

also, for anyone who cares about suizorus-beta's exploits in platinum, we've had some wild times just now that turned up at the single most appropriate moment, so here's something for the ride home. i've put it in hide tags because it's offtopic i guess
(tangentially relevant though because it's about battle facilities and the team originates from this thread, plus i can't post it anywhere else)

a nostalgic blast from the past - ugh i feel old writing this title

Okay, first I present to you 'Team Suizomence':

Salamence @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 21/21/24/29/17/20
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Substitute

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Bold
IVs: 27/10/14/24/27/16
EVs: 184 HP / 252 Def / 72 Spe (creeps jolly marowak cuz strongth, i thought up the spread for xy anyway)
-Calm Mind
-Surf
-Icy Wind
-Rest

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 1/14/25/21/6/23 (lol kinda cringeworthy now that i calc them)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
-Swords Dance
-Bullet Punch
-X-Scissor (I probably should teach it Bug Bite in SoulSilver, but I'm lazy and I'm not really comfortable using a move unavailable in platinum)
-Roost

I read about Suizorus in this thread and watched some videos of it, and it looked like a gorgeous and really fun team. However, I couldn't play with it myself because a) i have my own streak going, b) i can't RNG and therefore not get a flawless suicune, which is kinda required in order to not autolose against garchomp4 (I can synchronise though lol, this suicune actually was my first ever synchronised mon. I have a clone on white 2 and on X because he's cool and I wanna try building some other teams around it eventually) and c) i really hate copypasting others' teams, i want to have had some of my own input in building it. I was dawlding around on platinum anyway and i was thinking up a good team for the tower, and then i thought 'why the fuck not, let's use it here, this could be fun and i can't copypaste it anyway'. Anyway, the problems I had to solve were a) no scald, b) no scizorite, and c) no Haxorus. Logically, Scald was replaced by Surf, I can't unfreeze myself anymore but hey, times were tough. Scizorite was a lot harder to replace - Suicune can't go without lefties, so the options for Scizor were Sitrus Berry or a boosting item. I chose Life Orb because moar power and I could mitigate the recoil with Roost. (Muscle Band is kind of a do-nothing item imo and Expert Belt on Scizor is logically just as trash as his super effective coverage: very.) I'm still not really sold on it though, open to any suggestions :\ Anyway, the most urgent issue was of course replacing Haxorus. Salamence was an easy pick for this. Garchomp doesn't get Dragon Dance (thank Azelf for that, DD Garchomp would be right up there with Prankster Smeargle lol) and Dragonite kinda blows in DPPt because no Multiscale - Intimidate was, is, and always will be really cool. Salamence was simply the closest alternative available. He also has a less situational ability than Haxorus (i don't think mold breaker is useful for anything other than levitate in dppt), but that rock weakness blows.

Okay, so this team definitely works. Awesome defensive synergy, except against sets with really good coverage, and the first six waves (of seven battles) were a breeze - either Salamence demolished everything, or Suicune demolished everything a little more slowly (ate Palmer alive for the silver print. Poor Milotic cursed Dragonite tenfold for paralyzing Suicune, because Hypnosis had become useless and Milotic was helpless.) Scizor could occasionally revenge something or punch a hole, but didn't sweep entire teams, actually there was only one battle in the 49 i did where he got more than one kill. The seventh and so far final wave was ugly though. We fought our way through tough battles and creative sets (DD Outrage Lapras, wut? killed suicune, was revenged by scizor, but in the end salamence had to pull through with ~20% HP) and we also did some cool stuff (like that battle where I used Suicune to stall Milotic out of all its Blizzard, Hydro Pump, and Mirror Coat PP - last move was Recover - and then set up a sub and six DDs with Salamence, that was fun). Things got tense in the battle before Palmer - the opponent led off with Rampardos, I easily killed it of course but I couldn't set up for reasons reminding of Tyrantrum4, but then I faced a Drapion (that I hadn't intimidated) with all elemental fangs, i.e. that hit my entire team super effectively. I could intimidate it three times by switching between salamence and scizor, but then it burned salamence and popped its berry so I thought I'd set up - it was weakened anyway and couldn't directly ko me anymore. However, Salamence flinched and died - so Suicune had to go snag calm minds against a mon with a scope lens, Cross Poison, and possibly Sniper. No matter how intimidated it was, those crits kind of really hurt then. Thank Azelf for the old crit mechanics btw, because I'm not sure I would've won in X. No fatal hax happened, but it was intense of course. Drapion died, and the last mon Jolteon couldn't ignore those sp.def boosts.

And then came Palmer. I didn't think up a really specific plan - after all, he's just another Veteran - but this scenario didn't come up lol. I basically choked enormously and was saved by the mon I least expected it from. he led off with his heatran - a really awkward yet extremely evil set, an all-out special attacker with a sash and explosion. i stupidly set up a dd because i completely forgot about his sash - and i can't reasonably expect him to miss the 2HKO on a salamence of course. Actually, he didn't even miss the OHKO because flash cannon critted. Of course I sent in Suicune, of course I should've just gone for the 2HKO with Surf, but I didn't know he didn't have any defensive EVs (I kinda assumed it to be a max HP/max SpA spread, which Cune can't reliably 2HKO), so I Calm Minded. Crit Earth Power, down to <50% but I couldn't use rest yet because I needed more SpD boosts in order to survive those three turns of sleep comfortably enough - and Heatran went boom. At least he was dead now, but this meant I had to rely on Scizor to beat both Cresselia and Regigigas - Scizor, who had basically only been useful for switch stalling and sniping some stuff with BP. Anyway, you only live twice, so I sent in Scizor, and I saw Palmer send in Cresselia. Scizor resists all of her moves, so that's nifty, and I confidently click Swords Dance because I'm gonna have to hit very hard to win this - as Psychic crits. No catastrophic damage, around 40%, but any damage is too much damage when I'm also gonna be taking life orb recoil, at least one attack from Cresselia, and possibly some attacks from regigigas, so I click Roost. Again, Cresselia uses Psychic, but I'm back at ~85%. Now it's time to fight, because I'm sorta healthy and another crit or a sp.def drop will spell the end, so I click X-Scissor. Cresselia uses Psychic, it does bugger, and Scizor OHKOes Cresselia. yes, that really is possible. Out comes Regigigas, the damn thing isn't strong /yet/ because of that idiotic ability, but it's still damn bulky, it holds BrightPowder, and Scizor should be taking as few hits as possible because it's slowly killing itself with LO. Anyway, I'm faster, also because of that idiotic ability, and X-Scissor does around 90% damage. (bug bite would've come in really handy right now lol). Regigigas's Stone Miss doesn't miss, and Scizor is down to ~25% HP, also because of the two rounds of LO recoil. So, yeah. If my next attack hits, I win. If it misses, I lose. Simple as that. I'm not gonna Roost because Stone Edge critting is more likely than BrightPowder triggering. I click Bullet Punch because I'm paranoid, and I hope BrightPowder doesn't trigger. It doesn't. Scizor survives with 15% HP and does a lot more than I had given him credit for. I win the coloured print after a battle where I lost two mons in what should've been a one-for-one trade... in the absolute worst case scenario, and I was saved by my LVP (least valuable player). I would post a video but that's gotten kinda hard as of last May.

So yeah, cool team Jump ^_^ if some idiot like me can win the coloured print on the first run with a toned-down version of it, you must've done something right. Now (or probably later, this was intense) to see if it can reach 100 as well, I want that trainer star :] with Scizor I guess, he kinda earned it.

 

[Az_UK]

Hi everyone, I've achieved a win streak of 54 wins on the Super Multi Battle with AI partner, my team are as follows:



(Lead) Garchomp @ Assault Vest
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk/252 SpD/4HP
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Poison Jab
- Dragon Claw

(Back up)Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy/Parental Bond
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 SpD/ 4 HP
- Return
- Fake Out
- Crunch
- Power-Up Punch




AI PARTNER


(Lead)Staraptor @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: ???)
- Brave Bird
- U-Turn
- Giga Impact
- Close Combat

Stats for reference
HP: 160
ATT: 172
DEF: 81
SPATK: 77
SPDEF: 80
SPD: 151




(Back up)Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Nature: ???
- Bullet Punch
- Sword Dance
- Reversal
- U-Turn

Stats for reference
HP 177
ATK 200
DEF 120
SPATK 75
SPDEF 100
SPD 76


Commentary: I have a lot of friend AI partners, some I had little interest in, others I felt had potential but didn't work out for me. I decided to try my Staraptor, Scizor and I must say, the synergy isn't so bad. I've read posts on how AI partners tend to screw over at crucial moments, but mine were pretty smart for the most part, Staraptor will always attack the weakest out of the two with the priority of targetting 4x weak pokes first (U-Turn on Shiftry), then 2x weak (Brave Bird on fighting types), and if either pokes have neutral coverage, it will generally target the one with presumably the least defense with the appropriate move. General rule, once you understand your partners target habits, you make battles much more convenient. I lead with my Garchomp + Starapor, thanks to intimidate, we can take hits a bit more easily from physical attackers, Garchomp moslty has to EQ or Rockslide with Staraptor cleaning the mess up. If Staraptor should faint after damage is dealt both ways, Scizor comes in and cleans up with Technician LO, boosted bullet punch. Mega Khan's purpose is the usual fake out + revenge kill.
I lost to a team of Jynx/Heatran/Ambipom/??? (didn't live to see the last poke, nor did I have room to save the battle!!!!) I can record the streak proof if it's required though.

Threats:

Fast pokes with Blizzard (Jynx got the better of us sadly)
Fast electric pokemon T-bolting Staraptor
Flinch hax from rock slide Aerodactyl

I do however have my battle 50 vid vs Chatelaine Morgan + Chatelaine Nita (awfully clutch I must say haha)

ID: ARXG-WWWW-WWW9-H7EF

 

[brakerider]

Thanks for keeping this thread going everyone! I really enjoy watching your videos and reading your posts.

Congrats to everyone breaking 1000 ( or getting close) especially.

Maybe one day I will get back up there with you guys.

 

[SimicCombine]

I just found out a great reason to run speed over HP on Talonflame: Quick Guard and Fake Out have the same priority, meaning that without speed investment, Quick Guard fails to stop Fake out from Infernape4, Jynx4, Kangaskhan4, and always fails to stop Raichu3. Jolly max speed is needed to outspeed Weavile by one point, but I don't think I can afford to lose the attack. I sure am glad Jynx attacked Blastoise and not Greninja, otherwise bad things would've happened.

 

[cant say]

a nostalgic blast from the past - ugh i feel old writing this title

Okay, first I present to you 'Team Suizomence':

Salamence @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 21/21/24/29/17/20
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Substitute

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Bold
IVs: 27/10/14/24/27/16
EVs: 184 HP / 252 Def / 72 Spe (creeps jolly marowak cuz strongth, i thought up the spread for xy anyway)
-Calm Mind
-Surf
-Icy Wind
-Rest

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 1/14/25/21/6/23 (lol kinda cringeworthy now that i calc them)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
-Swords Dance
-Bullet Punch
-X-Scissor (I probably should teach it Bug Bite in SoulSilver, but I'm lazy and I'm not really comfortable using a move unavailable in platinum)
-Roost

I read about Suizorus in this thread and watched some videos of it, and it looked like a gorgeous and really fun team. However, I couldn't play with it myself because a) i have my own streak going, b) i can't RNG and therefore not get a flawless suicune, which is kinda required in order to not autolose against garchomp4 (I can synchronise though lol, this suicune actually was my first ever synchronised mon. I have a clone on white 2 and on X because he's cool and I wanna try building some other teams around it eventually) and c) i really hate copypasting others' teams, i want to have had some of my own input in building it. I was dawlding around on platinum anyway and i was thinking up a good team for the tower, and then i thought 'why the fuck not, let's use it here, this could be fun and i can't copypaste it anyway'. Anyway, the problems I had to solve were a) no scald, b) no scizorite, and c) no Haxorus. Logically, Scald was replaced by Surf, I can't unfreeze myself anymore but hey, times were tough. Scizorite was a lot harder to replace - Suicune can't go without lefties, so the options for Scizor were Sitrus Berry or a boosting item. I chose Life Orb because moar power and I could mitigate the recoil with Roost. (Muscle Band is kind of a do-nothing item imo and Expert Belt on Scizor is logically just as trash as his super effective coverage: very.) I'm still not really sold on it though, open to any suggestions :\ Anyway, the most urgent issue was of course replacing Haxorus. Salamence was an easy pick for this. Garchomp doesn't get Dragon Dance (thank Azelf for that, DD Garchomp would be right up there with Prankster Smeargle lol) and Dragonite kinda blows in DPPt because no Multiscale - Intimidate was, is, and always will be really cool. Salamence was simply the closest alternative available. He also has a less situational ability than Haxorus (i don't think mold breaker is useful for anything other than levitate in dppt), but that rock weakness blows.

Okay, so this team definitely works. Awesome defensive synergy, except against sets with really good coverage, and the first six waves (of seven battles) were a breeze - either Salamence demolished everything, or Suicune demolished everything a little more slowly (ate Palmer alive for the silver print. Poor Milotic cursed Dragonite tenfold for paralyzing Suicune, because Hypnosis had become useless and Milotic was helpless.) Scizor could occasionally revenge something or punch a hole, but didn't sweep entire teams, actually there was only one battle in the 49 i did where he got more than one kill. The seventh and so far final wave was ugly though. We fought our way through tough battles and creative sets (DD Outrage Lapras, wut? killed suicune, was revenged by scizor, but in the end salamence had to pull through with ~20% HP) and we also did some cool stuff (like that battle where I used Suicune to stall Milotic out of all its Blizzard, Hydro Pump, and Mirror Coat PP - last move was Recover - and then set up a sub and six DDs with Salamence, that was fun). Things got tense in the battle before Palmer - the opponent led off with Rampardos, I easily killed it of course but I couldn't set up for reasons reminding of Tyrantrum4, but then I faced a Drapion (that I hadn't intimidated) with all elemental fangs, i.e. that hit my entire team super effectively. I could intimidate it three times by switching between salamence and scizor, but then it burned salamence and popped its berry so I thought I'd set up - it was weakened anyway and couldn't directly ko me anymore. However, Salamence flinched and died - so Suicune had to go snag calm minds against a mon with a scope lens, Cross Poison, and possibly Sniper. No matter how intimidated it was, those crits kind of really hurt then. Thank Azelf for the old crit mechanics btw, because I'm not sure I would've won in X. No fatal hax happened, but it was intense of course. Drapion died, and the last mon Jolteon couldn't ignore those sp.def boosts.

And then came Palmer. I didn't think up a really specific plan - after all, he's just another Veteran - but this scenario didn't come up lol. I basically choked enormously and was saved by the mon I least expected it from. he led off with his heatran - a really awkward yet extremely evil set, an all-out special attacker with a sash and explosion. i stupidly set up a dd because i completely forgot about his sash - and i can't reasonably expect him to miss the 2HKO on a salamence of course. Actually, he didn't even miss the OHKO because flash cannon critted. Of course I sent in Suicune, of course I should've just gone for the 2HKO with Surf, but I didn't know he didn't have any defensive EVs (I kinda assumed it to be a max HP/max SpA spread, which Cune can't reliably 2HKO), so I Calm Minded. Crit Earth Power, down to <50% but I couldn't use rest yet because I needed more SpD boosts in order to survive those three turns of sleep comfortably enough - and Heatran went boom. At least he was dead now, but this meant I had to rely on Scizor to beat both Cresselia and Regigigas - Scizor, who had basically only been useful for switch stalling and sniping some stuff with BP. Anyway, you only live twice, so I sent in Scizor, and I saw Palmer send in Cresselia. Scizor resists all of her moves, so that's nifty, and I confidently click Swords Dance because I'm gonna have to hit very hard to win this - as Psychic crits. No catastrophic damage, around 40%, but any damage is too much damage when I'm also gonna be taking life orb recoil, at least one attack from Cresselia, and possibly some attacks from regigigas, so I click Roost. Again, Cresselia uses Psychic, but I'm back at ~85%. Now it's time to fight, because I'm sorta healthy and another crit or a sp.def drop will spell the end, so I click X-Scissor. Cresselia uses Psychic, it does bugger, and Scizor OHKOes Cresselia. yes, that really is possible. Out comes Regigigas, the damn thing isn't strong /yet/ because of that idiotic ability, but it's still damn bulky, it holds BrightPowder, and Scizor should be taking as few hits as possible because it's slowly killing itself with LO. Anyway, I'm faster, also because of that idiotic ability, and X-Scissor does around 90% damage. (bug bite would've come in really handy right now lol). Regigigas's Stone Miss doesn't miss, and Scizor is down to ~25% HP, also because of the two rounds of LO recoil. So, yeah. If my next attack hits, I win. If it misses, I lose. Simple as that. I'm not gonna Roost because Stone Edge critting is more likely than BrightPowder triggering. I click Bullet Punch because I'm paranoid, and I hope BrightPowder doesn't trigger. It doesn't. Scizor survives with 15% HP and does a lot more than I had given him credit for. I win the coloured print after a battle where I lost two mons in what should've been a one-for-one trade... in the absolute worst case scenario, and I was saved by my LVP (least valuable player). I would post a video but that's gotten kinda hard as of last May.

So yeah, cool team Jump ^_^ if some idiot like me can win the coloured print on the first run with a toned-down version of it, you must've done something right. Now (or probably later, this was intense) to see if it can reach 100 as well, I want that trainer star :] with Scizor I guess, he kinda earned it.

You say you are uncomfortable using a HGSS move tutor move in Platinum's tower yet you use Suicune, a Pokemon not naturally found in that game lol. I would definitely teach it the move if you have enough shards saved up, the higher base power is obviously handy, but you also get the situational handy benefit of stealing berries, getting some HP back off something with a Sitrus berry or an attack / speed boost off something holding a Leichi / Salac berry (are they in the Tower? I can't remember) can help a lot! Anyway cool team, I always enjoy seeing stuff with random IVs doing well (gives hope to our imperfect/sentimental 'mons (I got through with a horribly IV'd calm Scizor I used during the main story)) Hopefully you can get those 100 wins!

 

[turskain]

I just realized that with Jumpman probably being 1000+ (or even 3000+) and hitting #1 any minute now, the top 3 1000+ streaks in Super Singles use a whopping nine different Pokémon between the three of them - and only one of them has a Dragon-type.





NoCheese, I just watched your Triples loss video, and I noticed one more thing aside from the unfortunate misplays you already mentioned: on one of the last turns where Sylveon is locked into ineffective Hyper Voice and Mienshao takes the center position (and gets KO'd after using Fake Out), there was still a possibility to win by using Shift on Sylveon (as Tailwind was up, making it faster than Mr. Mime), which would've put it into the center, letting it hit Slowbro sooner and tanking Mr. Mime's Psychic for Mienshao (which was its most likely move, since 0SAtk 75% Dazzling Gleam is not a KO while Psychic is), which would've allowed Mienshao to Knock Off Mr. Mime on the next turn to secure an EQ KO later while Sylveon and Chomp focus Slowbro.

Additionally, on Turn 1, you focused Musharna over Slowking with Brave Bird; Musharna3/4 don't have Trick Room while Slowking4 does, so Slowking should be the higher-priority target in general if you fear TR. Metagross blew up, killing it anyway, but if it was a Metagross4 using Trick, Protect or a weak EQ, TR might've gone up.

Which brings me to another point about "Balloon Mienshao vs Balloon Infernape" that I forgot: Infernape is neutral to Fairy thanks to its Fire-typing and it can kill Fairies with Flare Blitz, while Mienshao shares a Fairy weakness with Chomp and can't damage them. In the end, I suppose Mienshao has Wide Guard (protecting from allied EQ, Blizzard, and Dazzling Gleam) and Knock Off to hit Slowking/Slowbro and other Psychics/Ghosts as its primary selling points; while Infernape has Flare Blitz (dealing high damage to many Blizzard and Dazzling Gleam users), Close Combat and a moveslot for Protect, better typing synergy with Chomp, and slightly higher speed (tying Musketeers, and outspeeding Cryogonal4 and Greninja4 are probably the only relevant things it gets you, so it's not big) - and Blaze for a huge parting Flare Blitz if it manages to get low without dying.

Nice shiny Mienshao you've got there, by the way.



While I'm commenting on old losses (sorry about that), I noticed Jumpman16's 602-win Team Suizorus streak's loss against Delphox4 was also winnable. Icy Wind was not an option because of White Herb, but switching in Scizor and getting it killed with Overheat first would've taken the Herb out of the equation, allowing Icy Wind to be used so Hax can outspeed and KO.



I guess the take-away from all losses (mine and those of other players alike) is that losing a streak nearly always involves misplays, and multiple ones at that - and breaking the string of misplays at any point with a good play can be enough to turn it around, even in a horrible situation. Staying calm, breaking out calcs when the situation looks bad, and taking a few minutes to reconsider the options could make the difference between a comeback and a loss.

 

[NoCheese]

Nice points indeed. I really should have confirmed whether Murshana3 had Trick Room or not (I just assumed that it probably did), but was on autopilot, as my poor play (including missing that one additional out you just added) showed. Wide Guard was the move that really drew me to Mienshao in the first place, since it makes Chomp much easier to use, so if I replay the team (likely only in ORAS), I intend to stick with it, but you are definitely correct that Fake Out Balloon Infernape has some valuable other advantages. Perhaps, given that lots of unique Pokemon have found success on the leaderboards lately, Infernape is due for some more Triples love.

 

[Nix_Hex]

I've been wanting to post here, some great resources in the OP. Way to go NoCheese and the myriad other contributors who made stuff possible here. ANYWAY, I've been wasting time breeding stuff lately so I could give the Maison a try since it's not against real people and is a different kind of challenge for me. On we go.

Super Single Record: 91
Team:
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Adamant 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ability: Scrappy
-Fake Out
-Power Up Punch
-Return
-Crunch

Azumarill @ Wide Lens
Adamant 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Ability: Huge Power
-Power-Up Punch
-Aqua Jet
-Waterfall
-Play Rough

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Adamant 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ability: Rough Skin
-Earthquake
-Outrage
-Fire Fang
-Poison Jab

Kangaskhan is Kangaskhan pretty much. Fake Out for the initial damage and sash / sturdy breaking, Return for crazy powerful STAB, and Crunch to hit any Ghosts. Azumarill boosts when it can, has STAB priority and two main STAB attacks in Waterfall and Play Rough. Garchomp is my fast Dragon cleaner... next time I'll try Dragonite or something. You may say this team has problems with Ferrothorn but I never had any real trouble with it. Fire Fang 2HKOes which is sorta terrible but honestly the only thing this team had trouble with was Trick Room.

SJLG-WWWW-WWW9-Y9AY (34) - Slowbro Trick Room
7KK8-WWWW-WWW9-Y9AT (42) - Grassy Trick Room
NTXW-WWWW-WWW9-CL3T (92) - loss after pussing out against Serperior then endless freeze against Azumarill in Slowbro's Trick Room. I almost cried.

Super Triple Record: 53
I sort of merged a few of the Blastoise teams featured in the OP and came up with this pretty consistent team that ran into some misfortune in the last battle.
Team:
Politoed @ Leftovers (Should have gone with Damp Rock, maybe next run)
Modest + some messy spread that I messed up on in BW a couple years ago when I caught it but close to max Special Attack
Ability: Drizzle
-Surf
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Protect

Not too pleased with this thing. Necessary for rain and Surf was cool for turn one while Blastoise Protected, but otherwise this guy seemed like a waste of space.

Blastoise @ Blastoisinite
Modest 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Torrent
-Water Spout
-Aura Sphere
-Dragon Pulse -> Dark Pulse
-Protect

Amazingly consistent and doesn't always need TW up. It's unfortunate that I had to run full Speed to beat Scarf Manectric, I would have loved to bring the speed down to match Scarf Entei or even lower and put some more EVs into HP. This thing nearly always did its job and only went down a handful of times.

Talonflame @ Sky Plate
Adamant 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ability: Gale Wings
-Tail Wind
-Brave Bird
-U-turn
-Protect (?) <-- never used that move

Priority Tailwind is brilliant and Brave Bird allowed me to do as much damage as possible to far off enemies such as a Slowbro/king trying to set up Trick Room (add in Dark Pulse from Blastoise). U-turn + switching out Politoed allows me to recover from bad weather changing situations. My only problem with Talonflame is that it can only use one move per turn. If it sets up Tail Wind, it can't recover my weather or break sashes. It basically only gets one chance at Tail Wind and very rarely gets to move after that.

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry (shiny)
Calm 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpDef
Ability: Levitate
-Helping Hand
-Psychic
-Safeguard <--used one time
-Protect <--never used

Nearly invincible Pokemon. Obviously made Blastoise's Water Spout a nuke but it helped when Blastoise was at lower health or if I had to depend on a lower power move, such as Aura Sphere to KO a fresh sandy Tyranitar or Dark Pulse to KO a Trick Room setter. Psychic was weak but did extra damage when I needed. It also 2HKOed Dry Skin Toxicroak.

Rotom @ Wide Lens
Modest 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Hydro Pump
-Thunderbolt
-Volt Switch
-Will-O-Wisp <--never used

Tanky little guy that was basically my Empoleon killer. Volt Switch was nice but not always necessary. Maybe I'll go with Thunder next run. Not much else to say here tbh.

Garchomp @ Life Orb
Adamant 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ability: Rough Skin
-Earthquake
-Outrage
-Poison Jab
-Protect

Earthquake was a gorgeous spread move especially if Blastoise was out of the picture as everything but Politoed was immune to it (and that had Protect). Outrage is super powerful but ended up being my demise in the last battle in a horrible misplay on my part. You'll see in the replay. Poison Jab and Protect were never used.

here are some videos including my loss.
6ZRG-WWWW-WWW9-Y9L3 (33)
C5EW-WWWW-WWW9-Y9KV (38)
57HW-WWWW-WWW9-Y9KQ (54) - my loss. Using Outrage was a huge risk. I could have EQ'd then switched Blastoise out to a levitator in order to KO the Blissey. Didn't realize that Drifblim had a Custap Berry and Desty Bond which totally screwed me over. Came so close to beating Blissey with special attacks but Garchomp would have done a much better job at taking down Blissey. Everything else was statused / wrapped / sanded to death.

Two Trophies

I'll add the photos for "proof" later although I know it's not very important at this point since I didn't place. Any advice for that Politoed? I'm sick of its set and need more ideas.

 

[turskain]

Also, I had a few thoughts about "autopilot causes losses", as the mantra goes. I don't think it's exactly right - autopilot can work perfectly fine if it ends up making the right plays. I autopiloted for a lot of the 1010 Dragonite/Aegislash/Greninja V2 streak, especially in the first 600 battles or so. I played the whole streak over 6-7 days - the amount of battles each day was around 50-230-220-180-???-???-??? (I wasn't keeping exact track), but I was pushing 200+ per day for the first few days, and dropping to 100-120 per day after battle 600+. With that much grind, the plane is inevitably Choice-locked to autopilot a lot of the time, and it worked fine because Dragonite/Aegislash/Greninja is a very autopilot-friendly team. I mentioned in the V1 write-up that it was "easy to play" compared to Suizorus - and that quality is the key to getting away with autopilot, which inevitably happens sometimes when grinding long streaks, whether or not you intend to do it.

Autopilot isn't inherently bad, it's playing on habit rather than thinking things out - if you have learned good habits and have a lot of experience with your team (things like watching out for Soundproof on Hyper Voice, Bulletproof on Lucario's Aura Sphere, knowing how much damage you deal, how to play against specific Pokémon, just knowing what to do in general), then autopilot can carry you through just fine. On the other hand, if you've learned bad habits or don't know your team's capabilities in a variety of situations yet, autopilot will end your streak faster than you can blink. I suffered from the latter a lot after my Rotations streak with Klefki abuse - the atrocious habits and extreme sloppiness I developed while playing that team seeped over to my Triples play and I played terribly during a lot of the Heliolisk streak, for example. It took me several hundred battles outside Rotations to undo the massive brain cell loss that playing for a long time with Klefki had caused - I'm dead serious, my play temporarily regressed to horrible levels in other modes as a direct result of the Klefki Rotations streak.

"Ease of play" is a hard thing to quantify and it isn't directly correlated to the strength of a team, but it is a notable part of getting a long streak in my opinion. Being easier to play means there's less opportunity to misplay, and it makes the inevitable autopilot more reliable.

Part of a good autopilot routine is recognizing unusual situations and switching to manual when they happen - noting the trainers Veteran Saba, Veteran Isabella, Veteran Alfie, Veteran Eleanor, Chef Roux, Chef Andrei, Worker Rasmus, Beauty Claire, Punk Guy Puck, Hex Maniac Anastasia, Hex Maniac Mara, Ace Trainer Jai, Ace Trainer Bunny and Roller Skaters (as opposed to a random trainer or a Scientist throwing multiple Electric-types at you) is probably the most important thing.

 

[lats]

What's the status on users using Pokemon with illegal abilities here? I noticed a certain record that made it using a Sheer Force Feraligatr and a Flash Fire Typhlosion. These are illegal abilities as they were never released, which means that they were hacked or the parents of the Pokemon were hacked. Would that qualify a removal? :/

 

[sb879]

What's the status on users using Pokemon with illegal abilities here? I noticed a certain record that made it using a Sheer Force Feraligatr and a Flash Fire Typhlosion. These are illegal abilities as they were never released, which means that they were hacked or the parents of the Pokemon were hacked. Would that qualify a removal? :/

they weren't hacked as those are pokemon that the AI multi partners used, which randomly have whatever abilities are programmed in, regardless of whether or not humans can legally obtain them.

 

[lats]

they weren't hacked as those are pokemon that the AI multi partners used, which randomly have whatever abilities are programmed in, regardless of whether or not humans can legally obtain them.

Ah, I see, didn't think of that xD.