Battle Maison Discussion & Records

[Theron]

Tried a rain team for super rotations, but it's not really working out. First let's see the team.

Dragonite w/ Mental Herb
Ability: Multiscale
Nature: Modest
EVs: 140 Def / 252 SpA / 116 SpD
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Rain Dance
- Protect

My rain setter. For a rain team, normally Politoed would be an obvious choice. But I didn't pick it because it would mean having overlapping weaknesses, especially grass. Instead, I picked Dragonite since he can not only start rain, but also throw hurricanes and thunders without missing (the 30% confusion and paralysis are nice too). At first, I tried using damp rock to let the rain last longer. It was nice, but taunt users occasionally got in the way. As for the EVs, I had no idea what to do, so I just maxed out his special attack, and even out his defenses (and leaving his special defense higher for Porygon(2/Z) with download.

Vaporeon w/ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sep
- Scald
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect

My cleric. For any rain team, Vaporeon just seems to be the best choice for a wish passer. Keeping the team alive is its main function. Wish passing also works very well with Dragonite's multiscale. Scald is a decent water STAB that gets powered by rain, and the burn chance is always nice. Sadly, 4MSS means I can't have haze to remove any enemy stat boosts.

Swampert w/ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent -> Swift Swim
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Att / 4 SpD / 252 Sep
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Protect

My main sweeper. With rain, it outspeeds everything in the maison except for the scarfed Aerodactyl (doesn't appear after a while), Manectric (can't do anything to Swampert), and Entei (not a problem unless it somehow manages to shoot a solarbeam successfully which is unlikely). Waterfall and earthquake are nice STABs, and ice punch is good for anything with 4x weakness and frail grass types. I kind of wish he had a good boosting move but only gets curse I think. (Something like Swampert doesn't even get bulk up? Yet Whiscash gets dragon dance.....)

Scizor w/ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Att / 4 Spe
- Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Protect

Scizor has some very nice resistances, especially to grass and Dragonite's weaknesses. It would be nice if I can run substitute to block statuses and OHKO moves, but I think swords dance is better. I am having doubts of this though, thinking if I should just give it a choice band with aerial ace and superpower. Having priority is also nice to clean up any enemies at low health, and for when trick room is up.

I can't seem to get past the 40s, it just doesn't seem to do well against veterans. The water/ground coverage Swampert offers just doesn't seem to be enough. The rotation mechanics just makes it so hard to predict what the enemy will do, such as a Hippowdon using earthquake on my Dragonite or rotating in a Chandelure to use heat wave on my Scizor I rotated in. Any suggestions for improvements will be appreciated.

 

[VaporeonIce]

Tried a rain team for super rotations, but it's not really working out. First let's see the team.

Dragonite w/ Mental Herb
Ability: Multiscale
Nature: Modest
EVs: 140 Def / 252 SpA / 116 SpD
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Rain Dance
- Protect

My rain setter. For a rain team, normally Politoed would be an obvious choice. But I didn't pick it because it would mean having overlapping weaknesses, especially grass. Instead, I picked Dragonite since he can not only start rain, but also throw hurricanes and thunders without missing (the 30% confusion and paralysis are nice too). At first, I tried using damp rock to let the rain last longer. It was nice, but taunt users occasionally got in the way. As for the EVs, I had no idea what to do, so I just maxed out his special attack, and even out his defenses (and leaving his special defense higher for Porygon(2/Z) with download.

Vaporeon w/ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sep
- Scald
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect

My cleric. For any rain team, Vaporeon just seems to be the best choice for a wish passer. Keeping the team alive is its main function. Wish passing also works very well with Dragonite's multiscale. Scald is a decent water STAB that gets powered by rain, and the burn chance is always nice. Sadly, 4MSS means I can't have haze to remove any enemy stat boosts.

Swampert w/ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent -> Swift Swim
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Att / 4 SpD / 252 Sep
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Protect

My main sweeper. With rain, it outspeeds everything in the maison except for the scarfed Aerodactyl (doesn't appear after a while), Manectric (can't do anything to Swampert), and Entei (not a problem unless it somehow manages to shoot a solarbeam successfully which is unlikely). Waterfall and earthquake are nice STABs, and ice punch is good for anything with 4x weakness and frail grass types. I kind of wish he had a good boosting move but only gets curse I think. (Something like Swampert doesn't even get bulk up? Yet Whiscash gets dragon dance.....)

Scizor w/ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Att / 4 Spe
- Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Protect

Scizor has some very nice resistances, especially to grass and Dragonite's weaknesses. It would be nice if I can run substitute to block statuses and OHKO moves, but I think swords dance is better. I am having doubts of this though, thinking if I should just give it a choice band with aerial ace and superpower. Having priority is also nice to clean up any enemies at low health, and for when trick room is up.

I can't seem to get past the 40s, it just doesn't seem to do well against veterans. The water/ground coverage Swampert offers just doesn't seem to be enough. The rotation mechanics just makes it so hard to predict what the enemy will do, such as a Hippowdon using earthquake on my Dragonite or rotating in a Chandelure to use heat wave on my Scizor I rotated in. Any suggestions for improvements will be appreciated.

You can't predict what the enemy will do because it's not deterministic; the AI will make different moves in the same situation randomly. This team uses two Pokemon with 4x weaknesses, and both of them lack the power to consistently OHKO the Pokemon launching those super-effective attacks at them (MegaPert's Ice Punch is good, but not THAT good). Even if they could, the fact that these attacks (e.g. Ice Punch) are weak when they're not super-effective means you're always at huge risk against any team with an Ice- or Grass-type attack. Your vulnerability to Veterans just reflects the team's lack of power; the greater bulk legendaries carry means relatively weak attackers like these can't break them. The team also doesn't have a good answer to Water-immune Water/Grounds (e.g. Storm Drain Gastrodon and Water Absorb Quagsire). Even if you scrapped a team member to add something with a Grass-type move, having only one answer to something is a huge problem in Rotations. One bad rotation and your answer is gone, and you just lost to your team's "counter" (see my team in the post immediately above yours, which lost to Volcarona 4 due to only have 1.5 answers to it).

Regarding Sub on Scizor, it wouldn't really help. Sub is good in Rotations because if you get a good Rotation, you get a free Sub, but if you get a bad one, you're just out of a quarter of your health. But that relies on your Pokemon being fast enough to set up the Sub before the opponent, and Scizor generally isn't. It's also not super good at capitalizing on Subs, since Swords Dance is relatively overwhelming on it (compared to something like Shell Smash Cloyster, who instantly kills teams, or Calm Mind on something as bulky as Mega Latias, which makes her Subs nearly impenetrable).

I'd venture to say that Rain just isn't good in Rotations. Every advantageous rotation the AI makes is twice as painful, because it wastes a turn of rain in addition to giving them a "free" attack on your team. So depressingly, my advice is "go back to the drawing board." But maybe someone who's more creative than I am (turskain ?) can come up with a way to make Rain good here.

 

[turskain]

Tried a rain team for super rotations, but it's not really working out. First let's see the team.

Dragonite w/ Mental Herb
Ability: Multiscale
Nature: Modest
EVs: 140 Def / 252 SpA / 116 SpD
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Rain Dance
- Protect

My rain setter. For a rain team, normally Politoed would be an obvious choice. But I didn't pick it because it would mean having overlapping weaknesses, especially grass. Instead, I picked Dragonite since he can not only start rain, but also throw hurricanes and thunders without missing (the 30% confusion and paralysis are nice too). At first, I tried using damp rock to let the rain last longer. It was nice, but taunt users occasionally got in the way. As for the EVs, I had no idea what to do, so I just maxed out his special attack, and even out his defenses (and leaving his special defense higher for Porygon(2/Z) with download.

Vaporeon w/ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sep
- Scald
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect

My cleric. For any rain team, Vaporeon just seems to be the best choice for a wish passer. Keeping the team alive is its main function. Wish passing also works very well with Dragonite's multiscale. Scald is a decent water STAB that gets powered by rain, and the burn chance is always nice. Sadly, 4MSS means I can't have haze to remove any enemy stat boosts.

Swampert w/ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent -> Swift Swim
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Att / 4 SpD / 252 Sep
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Protect

My main sweeper. With rain, it outspeeds everything in the maison except for the scarfed Aerodactyl (doesn't appear after a while), Manectric (can't do anything to Swampert), and Entei (not a problem unless it somehow manages to shoot a solarbeam successfully which is unlikely). Waterfall and earthquake are nice STABs, and ice punch is good for anything with 4x weakness and frail grass types. I kind of wish he had a good boosting move but only gets curse I think. (Something like Swampert doesn't even get bulk up? Yet Whiscash gets dragon dance.....)

Scizor w/ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Att / 4 Spe
- Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Protect

Scizor has some very nice resistances, especially to grass and Dragonite's weaknesses. It would be nice if I can run substitute to block statuses and OHKO moves, but I think swords dance is better. I am having doubts of this though, thinking if I should just give it a choice band with aerial ace and superpower. Having priority is also nice to clean up any enemies at low health, and for when trick room is up.

I can't seem to get past the 40s, it just doesn't seem to do well against veterans. The water/ground coverage Swampert offers just doesn't seem to be enough. The rotation mechanics just makes it so hard to predict what the enemy will do, such as a Hippowdon using earthquake on my Dragonite or rotating in a Chandelure to use heat wave on my Scizor I rotated in. Any suggestions for improvements will be appreciated.

Like VaporeonIce said, Rain doesn't look that good. Weather reliance in Rotations seems somewhat doomed for long streaks with the mechanics of the format. You have to have Drizzle/Sand Stream/Drought on your lead to set it up, and only get one shot at it - with only one switch option and three enemy attackers, resetting weather is risky (you probably lose a Pokémon in the process), and outright impossible if any of your Pokémon have fainted. Any of the AI's three active Pokémon can be an auto-weather user; even if your lead is slower than theirs, you lose the weather war if the AI's auto-weather user is not in the lead and activates its ability when rotating in on Turn 2 instead.

I don't think setting weather manually is viable in Rotations, either. Screens, Trick Room, Substitute, Tailwind, Dragon Dance and other set-up moves would be more consistent and versatile.

Maybe a ZardY/Scarf Darmanitan set-up could spam Flare Blitz and ZardY's attacks to try and win; could try SubProtect Blaziken to spam a fast Substitute while also hitting hard in the Sun, though Flare Blitz recoil is counterproductive when using Substitute. Rain could also try something similar, but Sun hits harder and has a competent weather setter instead of the deadweight Politoed, so unless you can get good mileage out of something like Hydration Rest, Sun seems better. All-out offense seems like the most effective way to capitalize on weather, but that can only go so far with the massive randomness of Rotations.




VaporeonIce, Klefki and Sharpedo over Clefable and Blaziken, respectively, could be options for that team. The result might be somewhat similar Klefki/Gengar/Dragonite, except with Sharpedo over Gengar and Mega Latias as a bulkier, less offensive Dragonite and something other than Kangaskhan as the back-up since the Mega slot is taken.

 

[cant say]

Any of the AI's three active Pokémon can be an auto-weather user; even if your lead is slower than theirs, you lose the weather war if the AI's auto-weather user is not in the lead and activates its ability when rotating in on Turn 2 instead.

I don't think you quite understand how weather works in rotations :/ it only activates if the lead has it, so it won't activate if DrizzleToad / DroughtTales / Ttar / Aboma rotates in (since rotating =/= switching). It's the same as an Air Balloon, Intimidate, Mold Breaker etc. not being announced if the two backups have either of those.

Even if this were the case, then weather would be super viable imo since if the weather gets overwritten you could just rotate in again for a free [insert weather] set-up plus using a move of your choice (Politoad could rotate in to reset Rain and use Scald on the same turn etc.).

I'm like 99% sure this is the case, but now I'm second guessing myself since you said it, and you know your biz...

 

[turskain]

I don't think you quite understand how weather works in rotations :/ it only activates if the lead has it, so it won't activate if DrizzleToad / DroughtTales / Ttar / Aboma rotates in (since rotating =/= switching). It's the same as an Air Balloon, Intimidate, Mold Breaker etc. not being announced if the two backups have either of those.

Even if this were the case, then weather would be super viable imo since if the weather gets overwritten you could just rotate in again for a free [insert weather] set-up plus using a move of your choice (Politoad could rotate in to reset Rain and use Scald on the same turn etc.).

I'm like 99% sure this is the case, but now I'm second guessing myself since you said it, and you know your biz...

That's indeed how it works, but the ability only activates once when you send it out. Once Drizzle has activated (either when Pokémon are sent out on "Turn 0" or by rotating the Pokémon in for the first time), it will not activate again until you switch out - this goes for both the player and the AI. So once your lead's Drizzle has activated, you won't get free Rain again just by rotating it, only by switching it out and sending it back in. If rotating refreshed these abilities, you could also spam Intimidate repeatedly by rotating - that'd be scary.

Edit: Wait, I'm not sure what you're saying - let's start from the top:

Turn 0. Leads are sent out. Drizzle/Intimidate activates for the lead, Pokémon #1, as it is active on the field.

Turn 1. You rotate in Pokémon #2 which has not been on the field - its Snow Warning/Intimidate activates as if it had just been sent out, as it is "sent out" in the active position for the first time.

Turn 2. From this point on, rotating either Pokémon #1 or Pokémon #2 will not activate their Intimidate/Drizzle/Snow Warning, as they have already been "sent out". For their abilities to activate again, you have to switch them out.

When running weather of your own, you want it on the lead to get your weather set up ASAP (unless you're running ZardY, Soundproof Abomasnow, or Unnerve Mega Tyranitar). In this case, the AI's weather setter in the #2 or #3 position will reset the weather you set on Turn 0 when they rotate in and become active for the first time on Turn 1 or later, and your Drizzle will not activate again until you switch out and send the Pokémon back in.

Edit: wait, what, I'm completely wrong. Sorry; it is exactly like you said, the active abilities of the Pokémon that aren't the lead never activate, not even the Mold Breaker message. Could've sworn I saw Mold Breaker pop up on rotations, but testing it now it doesn't show up, so I guess not. Wonder how I managed to play over 1000 battles in Rotations while thinking that, lol.

In that case, leading weather is less risky than I thought, especially for slower setters (like in Sand Room) and ZardY. Weather moves, slower auto-weather setters if you run a Politoed that isn't super slow, and the works can still disrupt the weather - and regaining control is more difficult and costly than in modes where weather is good (Doubles/Triples).

Taking back what I said since I was wrong, Rain still seems like a poor option since Politoed is terrible in Rotations and manually setting is inefficient compared to non-Rain Dance support moves. Sun with ZardY could be viable - but the offensive frailness of ZardY commits you into all-in offense which won't make it far. Sand would face similar issues with Tyranitar not being too awesome, though less bad than Politoed; Sand abusers also stack weaknesses (unlike Politoed/Kingdra/Ludicolo which do not) and are again locked into offense.

 

[VaporeonIce]

turskain , I think Mega Latias + Klefki is an insane combination on paper, with either the Calm Mind sweeper set or the Dual Screens set providing incredible support. Dual Screens seems particularly insane, because Mega Latias's Subs are already so hard to break. Taunt is still a problem, though, and I dislike the lack of Unaware. In particular, I don't like the odds against Volcarona; while Gengar/Dragonite/Klefki/Mega Khan had a couple of very hard hitters (Khan and Nite) as well as Destiny Bond on Gengar to potentially take it out, this team would rely pretty much entirely on Sharpedo having enough Speed Boosts to Destiny Bond or using the back-up (who wouldn't be as good as Mega Kangaskhan) to take it out. I can't think of something besides Sharpedo that would be THAT much more reliable against it. I also just rejected Klefki on principle because "I didn't want to use it." I had the same reaction to Mat Block Greninja and Sturdy Aron. That's absolutely nothing against people who use them (I mean, I use Durant in Singles; I have no right to take a moral high ground); I just want to explore different avenues. But perhaps someone else can come up with a better use of Mega Latias than I did.

 

[Taylor]

Hit 200 wins in Doubles the other day. I run Tailwind Zapdos paired with Extrasensory / Grass Knot / Surf / Ice Beam Greninja because I've yet to re-tutor Mat Block and I can't decide which move to drop. Last two are Choice Band Scizor with standard Protect Mega-Gardevoir to finish off. I'm thinking of giving Greninja Focus Sash and changing Scizor to Life Orb + Swords Dance.

Nothing has troubled me up until now so I can see myself reaching 300 mark within the next few days.

 

[Theron]

Guess I'll have to come up with something else. How do you guys handle it when your mons get taunted from trying to set up or something?

I don't think you quite understand how weather works in rotations :/ it only activates if the lead has it, so it won't activate if DrizzleToad / DroughtTales / Ttar / Aboma rotates in (since rotating =/= switching). It's the same as an Air Balloon, Intimidate, Mold Breaker etc. not being announced if the two backups have either of those.

I noticed that while this is true, some things are announced when they are rotated in like the unnerve ability.

 

[Shion SinX]

Probably because it's not a one time activation ability, unlike weather or intimidate for example.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

That wouldn't explain why Mold Breaker's message didn't display.

Speaking of, it wasn't until this gen that I considered that certain abilities, particularly Mold Breaker and Unnerve, have giveaway messages because to not do so would look like extremely blatant foul play to the uninitiated. Bronzong being nailed by Earthquake? Being at ~25% HP and never eating a berry? I felt silly afterward, since it seemed like common sense at that point.

 

[Theron]

While it's common sense for knowing the ability of some Pokemon (has only 1 ability, 1 of its 2 abilities is announced, etc), is it normal that I always fall for Zoroark's illusion? (not that it's a problem or anything except maybe for taunt)

 

[VaporeonIce]

While it's common sense for knowing the ability of some Pokemon (has only 1 ability, 1 of its 2 abilities is announced, etc), is it normal that I always fall for Zoroark's illusion? (not that it's a problem or anything except maybe for taunt)

Yeah, that's normal. It's more of a problem when you don't get it AFTER it uses a move. I've become conditioned over thousands of battles to recognize "a lead that uses Protect that can't carry Protect is Zoroark." It's most annoying on Ace Trainer Jai, who can run all four sets, but most of the time you can identify his Pokemon as Zoroark from its first move. The whole "two of the same Pokemon in Doubles/Triples/Rotations" is also a dead giveaway.

 

[turskain]

To add to what VaporeonIce said, in the case where you see two of the same Pokémon in Doubles/Triples/Rotations, the one that was sent out first is generally Zoroark. Pokémon that always announce an Ability are recognizable as Zoroark right away - these are Tyranitar (always announces either Sand Stream or Unnerve) and Dusknoir (always announces either Pressure or Frisk).

In the case of Taunt in Rotations, you rotate away the Pokémon that got taunted and attack or try to set up, attack with the mon that got taunted, or switch out to get rid of Taunt - depending on which option looks least risky. For example, Klefki will move and use Substitute before Taunt hits (except for Prankster Thundurus4/Tornadus4), so it will have a Sub up and can often just attack for the duration of the Taunt. Taunt can go really bad for Rotations teams, and there's not much you can do about it outside "Aromatisse", running a lot of offense, or using a Mental Herb that leaves you vulnerable to many other things and is useless most of the time when Taunt is not on the field - like with everything in Rotations, there's a huge random factor involved, sometimes the AI will use Taunt on Turn 10 and sometimes it will rotate on Turn 1 and Taunt your whole team.

 

[GG Unit]

The fact that you don't see many people losing their streaks due to Zoroark is a pretty good indicator that it's often doing dumb stuff like telegraphing its presence by using Protect or using Counter against special attackers. If it were Focus Blasting Kangaskhan or critting/flinching things with Dark Pulse while disguised as something that looks safe to set up against, it'd be a whole nother story.

I do remember almost losing a pre-Chatelaine battle once because it got 4 straight Focus Band activations though.

 

[Shion SinX]

Well, the only time I really fell for it was when I used a psychic on it and it had no effect. At first I though "WTH how did it do it?" but then when it attacked with dark pulse it was obvious.

 

[turskain]

Triples update: 6727 ongoing wins.

Battle video: #6727 - GNYW-WWWW-WWXE-YDBE vs. Veteran Eleanor

Turn 1: Possible Entei3 center and Regice4 right-side position.

Switch Lucario for Talonflame
Entei uses Eruption, takes 70%
Mat Block
Articuno used U-Turn
Thunderbolt on Entei, 70%
Regice uses T-Wave, Greninja is paralyzed



Turn 2: With Eruption crippled, Entei poses little threat so I attack Regice with Brave Bird and leave Greninja in to get KO'd.

Brave Bird on Regice4
Entei used Eruption
Articuno used Reflect
Thunderbolt on Articuno, survives with 1%

Misplay #1: I could have used Tailwind on this turn without risk, as Articuno was revealed to be Set3, which is not threatening at all outside Reflect and Regice was going to kill the now-worthless Greninja anyway and get revenged.



Turn 3: Articuno is as good as dead; the paralyzed Greninja is finally expiring. Garchomp can come in after Greninja dies and finish off Entei and Regice.

Brave Bird on Articuno - KO
Entei used Eruption - Greninja KO
Thunderbolt on Regice - 2%, paralyzed

Eleanor sent out Terrakion in the left-side position
I sent out Garchomp in the right-side position

Misplay #2: With Articuno's unlikely survival, I still had the choice of safely using Tailwind instead of going for a KO, which would've won me the battle easily.



Turn 4: Rotom-W is almost dead, so I sac it while finishing off Entei and Regice.

Protect Talonflame
Entei Eruption
Terrakion Rock Slide - Rotom-W KO, Talonflame Protect
Garchomp EQ - Entei KO, Regice KO

Eleanor sent out Zapdos in the center, Cresselia on the right
I sent out Scizor in the center

Misplay #3: Keeping in Talonflame to Protect instead of switching out to Lucario or Scizor; both would have been safe switch-ins and left me in a better position on the next turn. Terrakion3 and Terrakion4 both have Rock Slide, so there was no point in Protect baiting.



Turn 5: Zapdos and Cresselia were not what I wanted to see. Zap4 threatens Heat Wave on Scizor; Cresselia3/4 are both bad with Icy Wind, Swagger, and Trick Room to go around.

Brave Bird Cresselia - minor damage
Bullet Punch Terrakion - 80%
Terrakion Rock Slide - Talonflame KO, Scizor 123HP
Dragon Claw Cresselia - minor damage
Zapdos Thunder Scizor - survives with 2HP, gets paralyzed
Cresselia Moonblast on Garchomp, lives with 32HP

I sent out Lucario on the left side

Misplay #4: How did Terrakion survive CB Bullet Punch? Oh, right -- Articuno3 set up Reflect on Turn 2 - and I had not used physical attacks on which Reflect mattered since, so I forgot about it entirely. Brave Bird + Bullet Punch on it would'v been the correct play - Garchomp and Talonflame would both have survived Heat Wave in case Zap4 used it. Targeting Cresselia with Brave Bird and Dragon Claw did nothing - Terrakion and Zapdos would have been much better targets. Overlooking Reflect was really, really bad.



Turn 6: Everyone panic! Since Reflect was set on Turn 2, it is still up even this far into the battle. Scizor may get fully paralyzed, so Lucario's safety is not guaranteed as it is slower than Terrakion before Mega Evolving. Attacking Zapdos will be futile and only activate its Petaya Berry, possibly getting Lucario OHKO'd. I considered Protecting on Lucario to safely Mega Evolve, but quickly realized that all hope is lost if Lucario has to 1v2 both Zapdos and Cresselia after that.

After strongly fearing a loss and doing the calcs, Dragon Claw on Reflect Zapdos + +2 Aura Sphere was a guaranteed KO on Zapdos. The play was clear: I have to use Nasty Plot on Lucario while Scizor does not get fully paralyzed and KOs Terrakion and Garchomp hits Zapdos.

Bullet Punch Terrakion - KO
Dragon Claw Zapdos - ~60% left
Zapdos Drill Peck Garchomp - KO
Lucario Nasty Plot
Cresselia Psychic on Scizor, KO



Turn 7: It worked! From here, Lucario can sweep 1v2 with the positional advantage.

+2 Aura Sphere Zapdos, KO
Cresselia Psychic - it failed

Auto-center!



Turn 8: Cresselia using an ineffective Psychic over Trick Room is curious.

+2 Flash Cannon Cresselia, KO

I win 1-0




Scizor could have died on the catastrophic Turn 5 even before the paralysis proc (that didn't end up mattering, thankfully):

252 SpA Zapdos Thunder vs. 252 HP / 44 SpD Scizor: 103-123 (58.1 - 69.4%)
252 Atk Terrakion Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Scizor: 48-57 (27.1 - 32.2%)

As Scizor survived with 2HP, the damage rolls on both attacks were very good. Without additional defensive investment over regular the usual 252HP, Scizor would have been KO'd with these rolls and the battle would've been lost. Thunder was presumably targeted on Talonflame, so whether it was going to hit Garchomp or Scizor was a 50/50.

Cresselia4 might have used Trick Room on the disaster turn - luckily, it did not. Cresselia3 using Icy Wind would have been even worse, and probably lost me the battle.

I made a lot of misplays and the battle was quite simple before them, but I hope you enjoyed the warstory.

 

[Arhan]

Triples update: 6727 ongoing wins.

Battle video: #6727 - GNYW-WWWW-WWXE-YDBE vs. Veteran Eleanor

Turn 1: Possible Entei3 center and Regice4 right-side position.

Switch Lucario for Talonflame
Entei uses Eruption, takes 70%
Mat Block
Articuno used U-Turn
Thunderbolt on Entei, 70%
Regice uses T-Wave, Greninja is paralyzed



Turn 2: With Eruption crippled, Entei poses little threat so I attack Regice with Brave Bird and leave Greninja in to get KO'd.

Brave Bird on Regice4
Entei used Eruption
Articuno used Reflect
Thunderbolt on Articuno, survives with 1%

Misplay #1: I could have used Tailwind on this turn without risk, as Articuno was revealed to be Set3, which is not threatening at all outside Reflect and Regice was going to kill the now-worthless Greninja anyway and get revenged.



Turn 3: Articuno is as good as dead; the paralyzed Greninja is finally expiring. Garchomp can come in after Greninja dies and finish off Entei and Regice.

Brave Bird on Articuno - KO
Entei used Eruption - Greninja KO
Thunderbolt on Regice - 2%, paralyzed

Eleanor sent out Terrakion in the left-side position
I sent out Garchomp in the right-side position

Misplay #2: With Articuno's unlikely survival, I still had the choice of safely using Tailwind instead of going for a KO, which would've won me the battle easily.



Turn 4: Rotom-W is almost dead, so I sac it while finishing off Entei and Regice.

Protect Talonflame
Entei Eruption
Terrakion Rock Slide - Rotom-W KO, Talonflame Protect
Garchomp EQ - Entei KO, Regice KO

Eleanor sent out Zapdos in the center, Cresselia on the right
I sent out Scizor in the center

Misplay #3: Keeping in Talonflame to Protect instead of switching out to Lucario or Scizor; both would have been safe switch-ins and left me in a better position on the next turn. Terrakion3 and Terrakion4 both have Rock Slide, so there was no point in Protect baiting.



Turn 5: Zapdos and Cresselia were not what I wanted to see. Zap4 threatens Heat Wave on Scizor; Cresselia3/4 are both bad with Icy Wind, Swagger, and Trick Room to go around.

Brave Bird Cresselia - minor damage
Bullet Punch Terrakion - 80%
Terrakion Rock Slide - Talonflame KO, Scizor 123HP
Dragon Claw Cresselia - minor damage
Zapdos Thunder Scizor - survives with 2HP, gets paralyzed
Cresselia Moonblast on Garchomp, lives with 32HP

I sent out Lucario on the left side

Misplay #4: How did Terrakion survive CB Bullet Punch? Oh, right -- Articuno3 set up Reflect on Turn 2 - and I had not used physical attacks on which Reflect mattered since, so I forgot about it entirely. Brave Bird + Bullet Punch on it would'v been the correct play - Garchomp and Talonflame would both have survived Heat Wave in case Zap4 used it. Targeting Cresselia with Brave Bird and Dragon Claw did nothing - Terrakion and Zapdos would have been much better targets. Overlooking Reflect was really, really bad.



Turn 6: Everyone panic! Since Reflect was set on Turn 2, it is still up even this far into the battle. Scizor may get fully paralyzed, so Lucario's safety is not guaranteed as it is slower than Terrakion before Mega Evolving. Attacking Zapdos will be futile and only activate its Petaya Berry, possibly getting Lucario OHKO'd. I considered Protecting on Lucario to safely Mega Evolve, but quickly realized that all hope is lost if Lucario has to 1v2 both Zapdos and Cresselia after that.

After strongly fearing a loss and doing the calcs, Dragon Claw on Reflect Zapdos + +2 Aura Sphere was a guaranteed KO on Zapdos. The play was clear: I have to use Nasty Plot on Lucario while Scizor does not get fully paralyzed and KOs Terrakion and Garchomp hits Zapdos.

Bullet Punch Terrakion - KO
Dragon Claw Zapdos - ~60% left
Zapdos Drill Peck Garchomp - KO
Lucario Nasty Plot
Cresselia Psychic on Scizor, KO



Turn 7: It worked! From here, Lucario can sweep 1v2 with the positional advantage.

+2 Aura Sphere Zapdos, KO
Cresselia Psychic - it failed

Auto-center!

Turn 8: Cresselia using an ineffective Psychic over Trick Room is curious.

+2 Flash Cannon Cresselia, KO

I win 1-0




Scizor could have died on the catastrophic Turn 5 even before the paralysis proc (that didn't end up mattering, thankfully):

252 SpA Zapdos Thunder vs. 252 HP / 44 SpD Scizor: 103-123 (58.1 - 69.4%)
252 Atk Terrakion Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Scizor: 48-57 (27.1 - 32.2%)

As Scizor survived with 2HP, the damage rolls on both attacks were very good. Without additional defensive investment over regular the usual 252HP, Scizor would have been KO'd with these rolls and the battle would've been lost. Thunder was presumably targeted on Talonflame, so whether it was going to hit Garchomp or Scizor was a 50/50.

Cresselia4 might have used Trick Room on the disaster turn - luckily, it did not. Cresselia3 using Icy Wind would have been even worse, and probably lost me the battle.

I made a lot of misplays and the battle was quite simple before them, but I hope you enjoyed the warstory.

Woaah.Just trying to get into this and I see this..Man I am gonna copy this team for sure.6727 wins How'd you do that?

 

[NoCheese]

Woaah.Just trying to get into this and I see this..Man I am gonna copy this team for sure.6727 wins How'd you do that?

Take a look at the link to turskain's streak on the first page leaderboard. turskain has written a ton about the progress with that team, with many of his updates linking to most/all of his earlier updates, so there's a ton of great theorymon / warstories to read through if you are interested in all the gritty details. Highly recommended.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

Even with the clear indicator that the streak was still ongoing, reading that made me feel a bit of anxiousness! Most battles that come down to the auto-center have made me very nervous, for the exact reason you mentioned- realising the inevitability that one mon will have to take down more than one, and so the ensuing turns where my other pokes are still alive and must have one or many things go their way are intense.

Scizor being near death was actually probably your savior. Cressy4 and most setters seem to opt to use TR when their attacks aren't going to KO, since the AI sees it as such a good support move. I myself have won a climactic battle BECAUSE the AI sent in Cresselia, my setter had been slain early, and she helpfully gave me the upper hand while I still had legends I desperately needed gone.

 

[ninjaethan]

Will this be any good?

Durant @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Truant
Evs: 252 Speed, 252 HP, 4 Defense
Entrainment
X Scissor
Iron Head
Protect

Absol @ Absolite
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Swords Dance
Sucker Punch
Detect
Baton Pass

Dragonite @ Focus Sash
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Speed, 252 Attack, 4 HP
Dragon Dance
Fire Punch
Dragon Claw
Protect

Any suggestions?

Also does, Detect + Magic Bounce block Roar, & Whirlwind?

 

[WideTomato]

Will this be any good?

Durant @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Truant
Evs: 252 Speed, 252 HP, 4 Defense
Entrainment
X Scissor
Iron Head
Protect

Absol @ Absolite
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Swords Dance
Sucker Punch
Detect
Baton Pass

Dragonite @ Focus Sash
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Speed, 252 Attack, 4 HP
Dragon Dance
Fire Punch
Dragon Claw
Protect

Any suggestions?

Also does, Detect + Magic Bounce block Roar, & Whirlwind?

Yes, it does indeed block roar and whirlwind. The team looks fine to me, it probably won't get a super long win streak due to being weak to bright powder hax. Dragonite should also run multiscale :)

 

[ninjaethan]

Well.. That^
Or..

Durant @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Truant
Evs: 252 Speed, 252 HP, 4 Defense
Entrainment
X Scissor
Iron Head
Protect

Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Ability: Competitive
Evs: 252 HP, 252 Defense, 4 SP. Attack
Calm Mind
Taunt
Protect
Psychic

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Sandstream
EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Dragon Dance
Taunt
Protect
Crunch

 

[WideTomato]

Well.. That^
Or..

Durant @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Truant
Evs: 252 Speed, 252 HP, 4 Defense
Entrainment
X Scissor
Iron Head
Protect

Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Ability: Competitive
Evs: 252 HP, 252 Defense, 4 SP. Attack
Calm Mind
Taunt
Protect
Psychic

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Sandstream
EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Dragon Dance
Taunt
Protect
Crunch

I don't think Gothitelle is the best setup sweeper in the maison, due to lack of speed and ''significant'' bulk. On the other hand, I think sandstream is hurting more than it is helping, I used it for my first attempt way back in early 2014, and the sandstream ability was actually what lost me the streak. I honestly havent used durant teams much for anything but the last 5 battles before n. 50 so I'm not very familiar with building one for consistent streaks.

 

[Theron]

Well, I finally got 50 wins in the super rotations format. Before I go any further, I want to know if this team can use any changes for improvements.

Porygon2 w/ Eviolite (Lead)
Ability: Analytic
Nature: Quiet
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/0
- Tri Attack
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

Aegislash (M) w/ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change (what else could it be? lol)
Nature: Brave
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Att / 4 SpD
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/0
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Swords Dance
- King's Shield

Audino (F) w/ Audinite
Ability: Regenerator
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
- Dazzling Gleam
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Safeguard

Garchomp (F) w/ Choice Scarf (Bench)
Ability: Rough Skin
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head

This time, I decided to rely more on bulk on my leads and not worry too much about any speed advantages or disadvantages (tailwind and trick room aren't much of a problem).

With Porygon2 as a lead, there's no need to worry about intimidate, even though Aegislash could just use swords dance but I don't like boosting in the odd number stages. =P With the eviolite, it's also really good at taking hits while dealing damage back with Normal + BoltBeam coverage (also gaining the analytic boost if the enemy is faster). Protect is for making sure it gets wish passed at low hp. I've thought about using charge beam instead of thunderbolt for the 70% chance to increase its power, but I figured it might not be worth it.

Standard Aegislash...........what explanation is needed?

Since I wanted a cleric/wish passer, I decided to try Mega Audino. I may have considered Aromatisse instead because of aroma veil, but its bulk didn't seem all that impressive. Clearly, its main job is to keep the team alive. Wish and safeguard helps Aegislash set up without having to worry about any status, especially confusion. Heal bell is a back up in case my team gets statused when safeguard is down. I wanted to try using draining kiss instead of dazzling gleam, but I didn't know it was an egg move and didn't feel like breeding again. x.x As for its EVs, I got lazy so I divided them between both defenses. It's very good at taking hits while I try to pass wish to someone else or set up safeguard. If anyone has any suggestions for the EV spread, that'd be nice.

For the 4th member, I wanted someone fast who can clean up whats left, so I went with scarf Garchomp. Being locked into a move sucks, but I want the increased speed. I'm still not entirely sure who to use for the last member, but until I decide on something else, it's fine for now I guess.

As mentioned, I'm open for suggestions if this team can make it much further. I haven't faced it yet, but I'm frightened with how I'll be dealing with Donphan4 and Walrein4. In the mean time, I'm going to be stressed out trying to get the trophy for the super multi format. By the way, what are the EVs on the AI partners' Pokemon?

 

[Shion SinX]

Wish passing really looks beastly on rotation, specially when you get things like Aegis to protect and receive it with no harm, so setup is not a problem. Someday I have to start the other modes, I might give this strat a shot. But maybe trying a different passer, like Sylveon, to use mega slot on something like Metagross.