Battle Maison Discussion & Records

[Khaelis]

Been trying to get to a 50 win streak on ORAS' Battle Maison (to unlock Wally's rematches) and got up to Battle 49 and ended up getting swept by one of the Feralgatr sets because in my wisest decision I thought going with Leaf Storm would be a good idea instead of going with Giga Drain with my Mega Sceptile. Naturally Leaf Storm missed and Garchomp wasn't able to finish the job in time, so I ended up losing.


Lead Pokémon:
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Spe / 212 SpA / 40 Atk
Naive Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Gunk Shot

Back up Pokémon:
Sceptile-Mega @ Sceptilite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Leaf Storm

Back up Pokémon:
Garchomp @ Lum Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance

Huge weakness to Ice-type moves with Sceptile and Garchomp, but I tend to out-speed most of those threats and generally can OHKO them with Sceptile or Garchomp and even if they don't go down I have the other to finish the job, or Greninja just gets rid of them before I need to worry. Despite all this the team is very well rounded in terms of dealing out damage and taking damage.

Guess I'll have to take the loss and try again later.

If anyone has some suggestions, I'm up for hearing them. But do note I will not remove Sceptile or Greninja. I'm only willing to swap out Garchomp as of right now.

 

[NoCheese]

If anyone has some suggestions, I'm up for hearing them. But do note I will not remove Sceptile or Greninja. I'm only willing to swap out Garchomp as of right now.

As your loss demonstrated, low accuracy moves are killer. Mega Sceptile sadly lacks a suitable equivalent for Focus Blast, but the 80% accuracy on Greninja's Gunk Shot and Hydro Pump will get you. I'd strongly advise replacing with Surf and Extrasensory (Grass Knot is great too, but you already have Mega Sceptile on that front.) Yes, you'd then be running an all-special set with a mixed-nature, but given the frailty of Greninja already, it's not too big of an issue. I typically got more mileage out of Fire Fang than Rock Slide on Singles Garchomp, but both are rarely used, so it's less of an issue. I guess Rock Slide is a much better option against Togekiss, so even with its lower accuracy, it's probably fine.

 

[Khaelis]

As your loss demonstrated, low accuracy moves are killer. Mega Sceptile sadly lacks a suitable equivalent for Focus Blast, but the 80% accuracy on Greninja's Gunk Shot and Hydro Pump will get you. I'd strongly advise replacing with Surf and Extrasensory (Grass Knot is great too, but you already have Mega Sceptile on that front.) Yes, you'd then be running an all-special set with a mixed-nature, but given the frailty of Greninja already, it's not too big of an issue. I typically got more mileage out of Fire Fang than Rock Slide on Singles Garchomp, but both are rarely used, so it's less of an issue. I guess Rock Slide is a much better option against Togekiss, so even with its lower accuracy, it's probably fine.

I bred the Greninja to be mixed so I'm not changing that at all. I'll consider swapping out Hydro Pump for Surf, but as of right now I don't really miss much with it and when I do miss with it, it is normally not the end of the world. Garchomp's Rock Slide is mostly to deal with Flying-types and Togekiss should Greninja go down due to a miss or not dealing enough damage to it so Sceptile can come in safely to finish the job.

My whole team, believe it or not, is pretty solid despite the weakness to Ice-types and running moves that can miss (Hydro Pump Gunk Shot, Leaf Storm, etc), but unfortunately I have a tendency to pick the wrong move (in this case risking a miss). Giga Drain would have done more than enough to take the Feralgatr (would have done about 124% damage), but for whatever reason I thought it wouldn't be enough so I made a poor choice in picking the correct move.

I only feel like if I were to swap something out, it would be Garchomp.

Thanks for the suggestions, though. I will keep them in mind.

 

[turskain]

Been trying to get to a 50 win streak on ORAS' Battle Maison (to unlock Wally's rematches) and got up to Battle 49 and ended up getting swept by one of the Feralgatr sets because in my wisest decision I thought going with Leaf Storm would be a good idea instead of going with Giga Drain with my Mega Sceptile. Naturally Leaf Storm missed and Garchomp wasn't able to finish the job in time, so I ended up losing.


Lead Pokémon:
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Spe / 212 SpA / 40 Atk
Naive Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Gunk Shot

Back up Pokémon:
Sceptile-Mega @ Sceptilite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Leaf Storm

Back up Pokémon:
Garchomp @ Lum Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance

Huge weakness to Ice-type moves with Sceptile and Garchomp, but I tend to out-speed most of those threats and generally can OHKO them with Sceptile or Garchomp and even if they don't go down I have the other to finish the job, or Greninja just gets rid of them before I need to worry. Despite all this the team is very well rounded in terms of dealing out damage and taking damage.

Guess I'll have to take the loss and try again later.

If anyone has some suggestions, I'm up for hearing them. But do note I will not remove Sceptile or Greninja. I'm only willing to swap out Garchomp as of right now.

Hydro Pump, Gunk Shot, Leaf Storm, Focus Blast, and Rock Slide are all inaccurate, and not worth the risk. I'd recommend going for a plain old specially attacking Greninja with Scald or Surf over Hydro Pump - maybe tack on Extrasensory to have something against Fighting-types, since nothing on the team enjoys Fighting-type attacks much. For Garchomp, Outrage is preferred over Dragon Claw for its much higher damage, and it's got Lum Berry to get rid of the confusion. For Mega Sceptile, Grass Knot is usually the preferred offensive Grass-type attack over other options like Giga Drain and Energy Ball, since it has 80-120BP on almost everything you'd use it on (Vaporeon, Whiscash and Carbink are the only usual threats against which Grass Knot lacks power, IIRC) - and Sceptile doesn't seem bulky enough to benefit from Giga Drain's recovery enough to warrant its lack of power.

I'd also recommend putting Sceptile in the lead in order to have an Ice resist in Greninja as a switch option for both Sceptile and Garchomp. As it stands, if Greninja goes down first, which is likely as you're leading with it, your remaining Pokémon are both 4x weak to Ice and liable to get easily swept by a variety of Ice attackers. Sceptile also changes its typing and gains Lightning Rod upon Mega Evolution, which it can't make use of too effectively as a switch option.

With the changes I recommend, the team would look something like:

Sceptile @ Sceptilite - Grass Knot, Dragon Pulse, HP Ice/Earthquake/Focus Blast/Substitute/Protect/Outrage (possibly Protect with a Modest nature to safely Mega Evolve up to base 145 speed where a +Speed nature isn't strictly necessary and hit a bit harder)
Greninja @ Life Orb - Scald, Ice Beam, Grass Knot, Dark Pulse/Extrasensory (Greninja probably needs Grass Knot even though Sceptile is on the team, as bulky waters may force MegaTile out due to its big Ice weakness and also beat Garchomp)
Garchomp @ Lum Berry - Outrage, Earthquake, Swords Dance, Substitute/Iron Head/Fire Fang/Rock Slide

 

[Khaelis]

Eh, thanks for the suggestions, but I don't think I'm going to get what I'm looking for because I'm being told to change everything that I specifically said I did not want to change. I bred them to be specifically that because I know the risks and knew it would work.

I only really asked what changes could be made on Garchomp, be it a different move set or a different Pokémon all together.

Thanks for the other suggestions though.

 

[NoCheese]

I only really asked what changes could be made on Garchomp, be it a different move set or a different Pokémon all together.

Well, I certainly read it as not replacing Greninja and Sceptile with other Pokemon, rather than leaving their movesets untouched. But if Garchomp is the only thing changeable, perhaps consider Scizor? You currently have two massive Ice-type weaknesses and two Pokemon immune to Electric-type attacks, which seems a risky imbalance. Thus, as you note, there's decent incentive to remove Garchomp despite its overall strength in the Maison. Scizor has a nice resistance spread, useful priority, and can even tank and set up on a decent variety of things. Bug Bite / Bullet Punch / Swords Dance would be my locked in moves, while both Roost and Superpower have their advantages. I've run Leftovers, Lum Berry, and Life Orb on Scizor before, so you've got a decent number of move item combinations to play around with, though at present your Life Orb is already spoken for.

 

[Khaelis]

Well, I certainly read it as not replacing Greninja and Sceptile with other Pokemon, rather than leaving their movesets untouched. But if Garchomp is the only thing changeable, perhaps consider Scizor? You currently have two massive Ice-type weaknesses and two Pokemon immune to Electric-type attacks, which seems a risky imbalance. Thus, as you note, there's decent incentive to remove Garchomp despite its overall strength in the Maison. Scizor has a nice resistance spread, useful priority, and can even tank and set up on a decent variety of things. Bug Bite / Bullet Punch / Swords Dance would be my locked in moves, while both Roost and Superpower have their advantages. I've run Leftovers, Lum Berry, and Life Orb on Scizor before, so you've got a decent number of move item combinations to play around with, though at present your Life Orb is already spoken for.

I think I will try out Scizor with Bug Bite, Bullet Punch, Swords Dance and Roost / Superpower.

What EV spread and Nature should I run?

 

[JebusChrist]

Looks like I'm the first one to get all 5 trophies in ORAS :)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/otubjw1huuikbar/image.jpeg?dl=0

(not sure how to copy image URL from this, took the pic with my phone)

 

[NoCheese]

I think I will try out Scizor with Bug Bite, Bullet Punch, Swords Dance and Roost / Superpower.
What EV spread and Nature should I run?

I'm partial to Adamant with 252 Attack EVs and near max HP, with the remainder in Speed. Take a look at the Speed Tiers link in the OP, and use that to decide how much you want to bump Scizor's Speed.

Note, however, that turskain had huge success with 252 HP, 164 Atk, 44 SDef, 44 Spe, 4 Def, though that was for a triples Scizor built with Tailwind in mind. You can take a look at his thoughts here.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

Just take care with switching to Scizor against some of those threats. A few set 3 and 4 pokes use Sheer Cold, and can still opt to use it in lieu of STAB ice attacks because the AI looks for killing power first and effectiveness second.

I'm in no position to criticize move choice but I find myself wondering what a poke with a stellar movepool like Greninja would do with a move like Gunk Shot. The typing and coverage enables it to stay in against some fairy types, but it loses an even more valuable coverage type in the process. Scizor is also able to slaughter those types with a much more utilitarian and reliable move.

I find myself wondering if I should even bother with the two demo cards I got for ORAS, since it appears (unless I'm mistaken) that the stones are neither version exclusive nor obtainable only through that demo. I don't see myself likely to use either Glalie or Steelix during my initial run, either.

That said, I have my Camerupt raring to go on X, and decided against breeding a new Mudkip; I'll just take Swampert out of the flunkies pool and make him a permanent mega. Next up is Altaria!

 

[Khaelis]

I'm partial to Adamant with 252 Attack EVs and near max HP, with the remainder in Speed. Take a look at the Speed Tiers link in the OP, and use that to decide how much you want to bump Scizor's Speed.

Note, however, that turskain had huge success with 252 HP, 164 Atk, 44 SDef, 44 Spe, 4 Def, though that was for a triples Scizor built with Tailwind in mind. You can take a look at his thoughts here.

Hmm.. I see. I'll have to re-do my EVs since I just opted into max Attack and Speed with it at first.

After looking at the Speed chart I think I'll opt into going with 208 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe. If it doesn't work out very well I'll try that EV spread turskain used and see how that plays out.

 

[turskain]

I'm partial to Adamant with 252 Attack EVs and near max HP, with the remainder in Speed. Take a look at the Speed Tiers link in the OP, and use that to decide how much you want to bump Scizor's Speed.

Note, however, that turskain had huge success with 252 HP, 164 Atk, 44 SDef, 44 Spe, 4 Def, though that was for a triples Scizor built with Tailwind in mind. You can take a look at his thoughts here.

Doubles/Triples Scizor with Choice Band and Singles Scizor with Roost are entirely different beasts. I can see non-Mega Scizor benefiting from a couple of points in Speed in Singles, but even so, you probably want to max Attack to hit things and max HP to maximize Roost's effectiveness. Mega Scizor has better stats all around (including Speed, so it requires no investment to outspeed many things) and can merrily Roost away on many more threats than regular Scizor can, so I'd definitely want to give it the Mega Slot if possible.

 

[Kr33d]

Hey guys, long time reader, first time poster. My friend, Jerex, and I have just finished a streak of 170 in Super Multi Battle (with human). We’ve been trying for a while to get a 100+ streak with this team, while making changes with each run, finally ending up with this as our final team:

Our Team

Jerex (friend):

Lead:

[Whisper] Gengar @ Focus Sash
Levitate
Timid
31/x/31/31/31/31
4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
-Shadow Ball
-Sludge bomb
-Thunderbolt
-Energy Ball

This is a pretty standard set for Gengar. We had Destiny Bond (instead of Energy Ball) at one point, but decided it was pretty unreliable in Doubles, and we missed the coverage of Energy Ball. With Fake Out from Kagaskhan, and Focus Sash, Gengar can usually get at least 2 or 3 hits in before going down. We have loved her damage output, and she works very well with Lucario. Gengar is immune to 2 of Lucario’s weaknesses (Fighting and Ground), which is very nice for switching. We often switch Lucario out in place of Gengar, if one or both of the opponents are using a Dark move on Gengar. This allows Lucario to get a free Attack boost from Justified, and Gengar to stay alive. It may sound a little gimmicky, but it’s worked many times in our runs, and hasn’t really turned around to bite us.


Backup:

[Ajjat] Lucario @ Mega
Justified>Adaptability (Mega)
Jolly
31/31/31/x/31/31
4 HP/ 252 Att/ 252 Spe
-Close Combat
-Bullet Punch
-Power-Up Punch
-Protect

Mega-Lucario hits like a truck. Even though we don’t have much coverage (compared to having Ice Punch for instance), he still hits hard. Adaptability essentially turns Close Combat into a Fighting type Explosion [240BP] (without the pesky side effect of losing your Pokemon). Bullet Punch is a must have, as the priority has saved us several times, and helps to pick off fast Ice Pokemon that Garchomp doesn’t like. Power-Up Punch is mainly for those times when Close Combat is complete overkill, and we want the Attack boost+no Defense drops. Protect helps to get Mega evolved, if Lucario doesn’t outspeed something before evolving, and it allows Garchomp to use Earthquake, when needed. We really didn’t have many situations where we wished we had more coverage, and this set has worked very well for us.


Me:

Lead:

[Mama Bear] Kangaskhan @ Mega
Scrappy>Parental Bond (Mega)
Jolly
31/31/31/x/31/31
4 HP/ 252 Att/ 252 Spe
-Fake Out
-Double-Edge
-Crunch
-Power Up Punch

Mega-Kangaskhan is a beast in the Battle Maison. She is probably the MVP of our team. Fake Out is used 99% of the time, and does about a 1/4 to 1/3 most of the time (even 1HKO’ing a Mr. Mime with a crit). With her Scrappy, she can even avoid evolving and flinch some annoying Ghost Pokemon, which Gengar can usually take care of that turn. We began the team with Return, but decided to rebreed for Double-Edge, and we haven’t looked back since. The raw power we got from Double-Edge far outweighed the recoil. With Kangaskhan’s natural bulk, she can afford to take some recoil (although she once took 80 HP just from recoil on a Blissey). Crunch is used over the standard Sucker Punch, because it’s a lot more reliable for us, and works on Pokemon that don’t attack, such as Cresselia2. Power-Up Punch is such a fun, last move to use. I can’t tell you how many times we got +2 or +4, from that, and destroyed the next Pokemon to come in. It also helped with out-boosting some Stockpile users. One thing we realized is: if Power-Up Punch is 2x effective, and Crunch is 1x effective, Power-Up Punch will do more damage because of the Attack boost.


Backup:

[Mittens] Garchomp @ Life Orb
Rough Skin
31/31/31/31/31/31
Jolly
4 HP/ 252 Att/ 252 Spe
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Swords Dance

This slot was hard to fill. We went through Togekiss, Dragonite and Greninja before finally settling on Garchomp. He worked very well for us compared to the other candidates. The biggest threats to our team were faster Electric Pokemon, and Garchomp provided a nice switch into those. He can also take a Fighting move for Kangaskhan (and often deal some residual damage through Rough Skin). Dragon Claw is much more reliable than Outrage in Doubles, and Earthquake is a standard STAB for Chomp. Rock Slide is more of filler, which we used maybe twice in the whole run, but it still fit better than anything else we could think of. Swords Dance was nice to have in cases where we had taken out one side, and Gengar/Lucario could take out the other Pokemon (obviously with another Pokemon to come).

This team worked very well together, and really did better than we would have imagined. It’s simply a “goodstuffs” team, with simple strategies, but very good synergy. There were a few little things that we would try to pull of if we could, but none of which were essential for the team to work:

1. If the opponent just used a Dark move on Gengar, then the next turn we’d switch Lucario in to take the hit and get an Attack boost.
2. If Lucario hadn’t evolved yet, Kangaskhan was out and unboosted, and we knew we could do this without any risk, we’d have Kangaskhan use Crunch on Lucario, giving him +2 Attack while usually dealing around 40% HP (not factoring crits, or Def drops). This is very gimmicky, but it usually worked out really well for us.
3. There were some cases where Gengar and Kangaskhan were out together and we had taken out both opponents on one side, and had both of the other side’s Pokemon left. If Kangaskhan could take the first one out with Power-Up Punch, then Gengar would use Shadow Ball on Kangaskhan, to avoid doing damage, and let Kangaskhan get an Attack boost. These events didn’t line up very often, but when they did, we’d use that to get the most out of the turn.

Overall, we had a lot of fun doing this, and we’re happy to have such a good record with this team.

We recorded the entire run, with our live commentary. Obviously this is a lot of footage, but if anybody wants to see the team in action, or our thought processes, here are the 2 videos (it was so long, we couldn't export it all in one video).

Live Video

Part 1:

Part 2:

And here’s our final battle that we lost on:
HSJG-WWWW-WWWD-2B4E

Post-Game Loss Notes

We definitely could have won this battle. There were 3 things that factored into our loss, 2 of them being our fault.

1. We should have used Fake Out on the Aggron, while Gengar used Shadow Ball on Alakazam. This would have left Gengar with full HP and her Focus Sash, taken out Alakazam, and taken away Aggron's potential Sturdy. We then would've used Shadow Ball on the Gothitelle, and used Earthquake, which probably would've taken Gothitelle out, and Aggron down to the red. From there, it would've been very easy to win.
2. Even doing what we did, if Lucario had never missed a Bullet Punch (because of Brightpowder), or not hit himself in confusion, on Gothitelle we would've won.
3. Finally, even with the miss, I think that if we had used Close Combat on the final turn, instead of Bullet Punch, it would've done enough damage to KO. Bullet Punch is 80 BP with Adaptability, while Close Combat is 120 BP (240/2=120 because of being resisted). That little extra damage may have been enough to do it.

Obviously this is easy for us to consider now that we're out of the moment, have seen how everything played out, and have given it a lot more thought. However, during the battle we just weren't thinking about all of those things.

 

[Serah Farron]

Guess i'm the second :(

Pokemon Alpha Sapphire

 

[Jumpman16]

A short break from ORAS to post this, and to add a comment.

Yo my man I don't know who you are and I really don't care but MY TEAM is exactly that MINE! Sorry you got your feelings hurt.This team was created by me!The bulk on Durant helps him survive much more physical attacks as well as outspeeds every pokemon except aerodactyl if it was scarfed Which I have never seen.I have been using Durant since it was released.Anyway I had no Idea that just cause you posted something first it BELONGS to you.If you are gonna hate on someone maybe you should play another game.With this team I could win another thousand!So let it be seen by people who love the game not ones who are looking for some recognition.Thanks for your time.The 252 on Cloyster is on Attack and the Dutant spread is The BEST spread for Him.

Here are some facts gleaned from your posts thus far in this thread:

1) You "don't know who" turskain is despite him:

• having set basically every record in this thread, and,
• being the most prolific poster in this thread

2) Your posts by themselves did not warrant inclusion of your streak, as you failed to follow the second rule of this thread: "Provide as much information as possible. Posting your Pokémon, held items, abilities, natures, EV spreads and movesets makes your record much more interesting and gives more room for feedback from other members."

3) You insist on having created a team that is literally, objectively a copy of NoCheese's team, save for the slightly different Durant, which is identical to VaporeonIce's, and further have given neither of them credit for their well-documented, battle-tested creations when this is pointed out.

4) You are ignorant of several facets of the Maison AI, like:

• Scarf Aerodactyl not appearing after Battle 40, and
• Dewgong3 having Fake Out
• Volcarona1 having Whirlwind

all of which are curious at the very least of a once-#1 singles record holder.

5) "So let it be seen by people who love the game not ones who are looking for some recognition" is exceedingly ironic, considering the facts that:

• you actually did not post this team until you were prompted to (despite the rules being in the first post), and
• that your posts, by virtue of your refusal to include virtually nothing outside of recognition-seeking Battle IDs, by definition seek nothing but recognition

6) You have spent more time and effort been unnecessarily defensive and combative than writing out the required team strategy explanation.

Despite how this post may read to you, I can assure you I'm holding back. I have brutally laid into a few much more respected users—like FiveKRunner, Hipmonlee and even the godfather of these threads in Peterko—than you in years past if I felt they deserved it. You have earned none of the respect they have by sheer virtue of your registration date, without even going into how you have carried yourself in just two weeks as a member of this community.

If you are going to continue to contribute to these threads, please change your attitude.

 

[kuladiamond]

Hey guys, just wanna pop by and see what you guys think about a crippler team with Sub Roost DD Mega-Mence as the sweeper in Super Singles. From the top of my head and what I've read this gen plus previous gens, you can lead off with Taunt Memento Whimsicott, then proceed to cripple the opponent using Bulky Trick Scarfer such as Uxie. However opponents using Volt Switch or U-Turn may screw up this strategy. And then there are various Truant Durant teams. I've been wanting to play with Mega-Mence for a while now, and any inputs from you guys who are more experienced about EVs and possible partners are greatly appreciated.

 

[Jumpman16]

Glad to see you post this, kula! It occurred to me at some point after posting this that a return to my best Gen V team (Team Whimespronite) is very possible now in ORAS:

Whimsicott@Focus Sash: Taunt/Charm/Worry Seed/Memento, Careful, 4HP/252Def/252SpD, Prankster
Dragonite@Leftovers: Dragon Claw/Dragon Dance/Substitute/Roost, Adamant, 204HP/254Atk/20Def/28SpD/4Spe, Multiscale
Mesprit@Choice Scarf: Trick/Thunderwave/Charm/Flash, Bold, 252HP/4Def/252Spe

If I wanted to make a serious run with Salamence, I would definitely start here (of course I would, because that's my team, lol). Kangliscune has really spoiled me though, because the first thing I think of is "how do I deal with Sash/Sturdy?" Dragonite didn't have too many problems with them but to be fair, I honestly think I'd rather have Multiscale than Aerilate for 3-on-3 play. Which begs the question: why not use AA on Dragonite? AA Draggy is pretty weak even at +6 when you're using DD, Roost and Sub, and a balance between power (Aerilate Sala) and bulk (Multiscale Roost Draggy) is somewhat necessary.

 

[turskain]

Glad to see you post this, kula! It occurred to me at some point after posting this that a return to my best Gen V team (Team Whimespronite) is very possible now in ORAS:

Whimsicott@Focus Sash: Taunt/Charm/Worry Seed/Memento, Careful, 4HP/252Def/252SpD, Prankster
Dragonite@Leftovers: Dragon Claw/Dragon Dance/Substitute/Roost, Adamant, 204HP/254Atk/20Def/28SpD/4Spe, Multiscale
Mesprit@Choice Scarf: Trick/Thunderwave/Charm/Flash, Bold, 252HP/4Def/252Spe

If I wanted to make a serious run with Salamence, I would definitely start here (of course I would, because that's my team, lol). Kangliscune has really spoiled me though, because the first thing I think of is "how do I deal with Sash/Sturdy?" Dragonite didn't have too many problems with them but to be fair, I honestly think I'd rather have Multiscale than Aerilate for 3-on-3 play. Which begs the question: why not use AA on Dragonite? AA Draggy is pretty weak even at +6 when you're using DD, Roost and Sub, and a balance between power (Aerilate Sala) and bulk (Multiscale Roost Draggy) is somewhat necessary.

Crippling teams definitely seem like Megamence's best niche in Singles with Dragonite and Kangaskhan providing stiff competition for goodstuffs teams. Aerilate Return hits so hard that it could maybe run a 252HP/252SDef Careful spread for a bit of bulk (though not as much as Multiscale) while still nabbing nice KOs. Some calcs:

+6 0 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Magnezone: 74-87 (51 - 60%)
+6 0 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 112-132 (59.8 - 70.5%)
+6 0 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bastiodon: 65-77 (38.9 - 46.1%)
+6 0 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 195-231 (98.4 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+6 0 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 165-194 (74.3 - 87.3%)
+6 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 216-254 (97.2 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 168-198 (83.1 - 98%)
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Salamence: 170-204 (84.1 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Though even with Careful, it's not going to survive a strong Ice attack.

 

[Cheesedick]

Hello, new here. I got my 200 streak in XY triples with SimicCombine's mega blastoise team, and it was hella fun. For ORAS I wanted to make a triples team with talonflame/mega sceptile/rotom w core, but I'm not sure what backups to use. For now I just figured minmaxed EVs with something like

Center
Sceptile @ Sceptilite
Nature: Timid
Overgrow
31/x/31/31/31/31
4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
-Grass Knot
-Dragon Pulse
-Focus Blast
-Protect

Sides

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Nature: Adamant
Gale Wings
31/31/31/X/31/31
4 HP/252 Att/252 Spe
-Tailwind
-Quick Guard
-Brave Bird
-Flare Blitz

Rotom-Wash @ Wide Lens
Nature: Modest
Levitate
31/X/31/31/31/31
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
-Discharge
-Dark Pulse
-Hydro Pump
-Protect

Idea is sceptile and talon basically cover all of each other's weaknesses, while rotom boosts sceptile and deals some damage. Based on my XY experience my biggest threat would be TR setters and sunny day teams, and some fliers like staraptor, zapdos and aerodactyl. Veterans might be hard to deal with too. Any suggestions welcome, though I would really like to keep mega sceptile.

 

[Bard of Rage]

Looking at this thread makes me feel inferior.
Anyway, I've been trying to make my way in the Maison, but so far I've only obtained one trophy, Singles, and my streak didn't make it past 60. This is the team I used, I'd like some advice on what I could do to improve it. IVs are perfect for all except for the unused attacking stats.

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Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Adamant
Huge Power
92 HP / 252 Atk / 163 Spe
Waterfall
Aqua Jet
Belly Drum
Play Rough

I'm fully aware of the risks Belly Drum has, but in my opinion the power is definitely worth it. I've found more opportunities to set up than I thought, and once I have almost everything is KO'd by Aqua Jet, and if they aren't Azumarill usually has the bulk to take at least one hit, especially after Sitrus Berry. Hell, this thing took out the Battle Chatelaine almost by itself.

Gengar @ Gengarite
Timid
Levitate
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Taunt
Destiny Bond
Sludge Bomb
Shadow Ball

No Sludge Wave because I can't RNG in Gen V (DW is down anyway), and I didn't want to SR forever on something with no guaranteed perfect IVs. Mega Gengar hits hard when Azumarill goes down, and can take on the Grass-types Azumarill hates. Taunt is nice to stop annoying things like Roserade and Venusaur in their tracks, and Destiny Bond is for when their last Pokemon can KO me but I still have something in back.

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Jolly
Rough Skin
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Earthquake
Dragon Claw (will probably replace with Outrage, as this was originally a VGC team member)
Rock Slide
Swords Dance

What can I say? It's a Garchomp, one of the best Pokemon in the Maison. It does its job well, although I'm not too sure about that last moveslot, as I almost never use Swords Dance.

 

[Eppie]

Dear Battle Maison,

Now that ORAS has been released worldwide we know that we did not get our beloved ''Battle Frontier''.
In fact, ''ORAS'' Battle Maison is an identical copy of ''XY'' Battle Maison (apart from Multi AI partners but we'll get to that later). That being said there seems to be zero reason to create a new section within this thread for ''ORAS Battle Maison Records''.

However, what happens when someone breaks a high (top) record with a (Mega) Pokémon we dit not have access to in XY? Will it simply be placed above the previous (top) record, because ''everyone has access to it now!' or would it be a wise idea to discuss separate rankings, nonetheless?

To answer that question I've thought of an idea to (maybe) make ORAS Battle Maison a little more ''interesting'';

1), A records list for streaks achieved in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire only.
If we would create a whole new section for streaks achieved in ORAS only, everyone would start from scratch again in some sort of way. It also avoids discussions involving ''yes, but you used something for your streak I couldn't use'' etc. Those who are chasing streaks like 1289+ (singles), 1748 (doubles) and 5000+ (triples) get a new chance to become a potentional #1 in the mentioned mode, while the ones holding those records get another chance to prove they can reach such records again.

I'm not saying that this is a good idea, It's just an idea I came up with, and I think separate records is a point of discussion that deserves a little more attention, at least a little more attention than that it has had so far.

 

[turskain]

I've played a few dozen battles in ORAS Maison, and I can confirm that the opposing Pokémon and trainer set lists have been identical to XY Maison so far. Every trainer has a new pre-battle and victory line and a handful have new names (I've spotted Poké Fan Alokhya and Poké Fan Olonno prior to battle 40); but the sets seem identical. Additionally, I've only encountered renamed trainers in Battles 1-40 - past battle 40, I've only seen the usual suspects, though with different lines.

The trainers in ORAS Maison all use XY trainer sprites from what I've seen even if the Trainer Class also exists in ORAS with a different sprite. Additionally, trainer classes that don't exist anywhere else in ORAS (such as Punk Guys/Girls and Furisode Girls) seem to appear in the ORAS Maison just like they do in XY Maison.

The AI Multi partners are different, and you can't pick friend list partners as in XY Maison, as others have mentioned. As was suggested, a separate ranking list for ORAS AI Multis could have merit as the AI partner options are drastically different from those in XY, featuring sets not found in the Maison and Megas.

Edit: it appears there are some presumably renamed trainers past battle 40 as well (non-Set4 trainers in bold):

Punk Guy Jensen "Hey, kid! Are you scared of me?" seems to be identical to Punk Guy Puck
Punk Guy Quinton - renamed Punk Guy
Madame Inga uses Set4 Pokémon from Set B - renamed Madame, most likely
Madame Arabella uses Set4 Pokémon from Set A - renamed Madame, most likely
Chef Caesar uses Water/Ice Set4s - renamed Chef Carlos (met him thrice, I'm pretty sure of it)
Beauty Naveen uses Set4 Dark/Fairy/Normal-types - probably Beauty Lucetta/Lucille renamed
Beauty Birdie uses Set4 Dark/Fairy/Normal-types - probably Beauty Lucetta/Lucille renamed
Beauty Kenna seems to use Set4 Pokémon (might be Orla or a Set A trainer; at least she isn't Lucetta/Lucille)
Pokémon Breeder (female) Lalaini uses starter Pokémon (all sets), renamed Breeder
Pokémon Breeder (male) Teppei uses starter Pokémon (all sets), renamed Breeder
Pokemon Breeder (female) Gudrun uses Set B Pokémon, renamed Breeder
Pokémon Breeder (male) Merekee uses Set B Pokémon, renamed Breeder
Chef Cobb - renamed Chef Andrei
Maid Clara - Set B, renamed Maid

All Veterans I've met have kept their old names and sets from what I saw (including at least Saba, Eleanor and Alfie). Worker Rasmus is still Worker Rasmus. Mara and Anastasia also keep their old names.





Eppie, I agree that making ORAS Maison more interesting would be good. Howewer, I don't think that splitting the rankings would accomplish that; at least personally, I have no interest in doing another run with say, Klefki, to score on a separate (but very similar) leaderboard. I do intend to try some new stuff (possibly hitting the leaderboards in the process) in ORAS, though, which is where most of the interesting stuff in ORAS Maison looks to be given the lack of real changes to the facility. There's also ongoing streaks to play in XY - there's no chance I'd commit to chasing large streaks on an ORAS Triples leaderboard prior to finishing the ongoing XY Triples streak.





Speaking of new stuff, I've briefly given Prankster Leer a spin in ORAS Maison Triples, beating the Chatelaine with it - though I don't intend to go further any time soon. It seems more viable than I'd thought, so I will post the team:

Team Leer
​

Set details

Talonflame @ Choice Band ** U-Ship
Ability: Gale Wings
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SDef
-Brave Bird
-Flare Blitz
-Tailwind
-Protect

Meowstic @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 HP, 172 Def, 4 SDef, 76 Spe
-Leer
-Fake Out
-Sunny Day
-Quick Guard

Sawk @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sturdy
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Close Combat
-Knock Off
-Ice Punch
-Thunder Punch

Gastrodon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Storm Drain
Nature: Modest
EVs: 180 HP, 92 Def, 220 SAtk, 12 SDef
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam
-Scald
-Sludge Bomb

Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
Nature: Brave
IVs: 0 Speed
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SDef
-King's Shield
-Iron Head
-Shadow Sneak
-Sacred Sword

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Return
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Protect

Comments

The idea posted a while ago developed into a viable team with the power of Gastrodon and Mega Salamence.

The lead strategy is simple: use Prankster Leer at 147 Speed to drop the enemies' Defense by one stage (increasing physical damage taken by 50%), followed by Gale Wings Brave Bird at 146 Speed and Close Combat at 205 Speed. The other three moves provide control for when Leer is not the ideal move; Fake Out needs no explanation. Sunny Day cancels out Hail and Sandstorm that would break Sawk's Sturdy and Meowstic's Focus Sash and activate dangerous abilities like Sand Veil and Sand Rush. Quick Quard reliably stops all opposing Fake Out users due to moving at +4 priority while Fake Out is at +3 (thanks to atsync for pointing this out; I overlooked it thinking it wouldn't outspeed faster Fake Out users).

Talonflame's movepool is narrow enough that Tailwind will fit on any set; for the last slot, Protect is preferred over U-Turn to better handle bad lead match-ups without being forced to switch or sac Talonflame. U-Turn would accomplish the same result in some cases, but for the absolute worst-case scenarios, Protect seems more valuable to me.

Sawk is straightforward; Close Combat, Knock Off and Ice Punch are mandatory. Thunder Punch is picked for the last slot to hit Fire/Flying-types and Gyarados in a pinch. Sawk is used due to it having access to Sturdy, improving the fragile front row's reliability by doubling up on SturdySash and giving it more staying power than any other Scarfed Fighting-type can reach, especially with Sunny Day support.



Gastrodon covers Talonflame's weaknesses while not hitting allies with Earthquake and Aegislash handles Sawk's. The two are also bulky and can survive under Trick Room, which is important as the lead gambit is quite vulnerable to it.

Mega Salamence, the final piece introduced in ORAS, rounds out the team with Intimidate support in conjunction with Assault Vest and Aerilate Return to capitalize on Leer, forming a Water/Dragon/Steel core with Aegislash and Gastrodon. Earthquake hitting allies is not ideal, but it's MegaMence's best coverage option, rarely used, and not outright murderous like STAB Earthquake.

 

[waffles101]

I've played a few dozen battles in ORAS Maison, and I can confirm that the opposing Pokémon and trainer set lists have been identical to XY Maison so far. Every trainer has a new pre-battle and victory line and a handful have new names (I've spotted Poké Fan Alokhya and Poké Fan Olonno prior to battle 40); but the sets seem identical. Additionally, I've only encountered renamed trainers in Battles 1-40 - past battle 40, I've only seen the usual suspects, though with different lines.

The trainers in ORAS Maison all use XY trainer sprites from what I've seen even if the Trainer Class also exists in ORAS with a different sprite. Additionally, trainer classes that don't exist anywhere else in ORAS (such as Punk Guys/Girls and Furisode Girls) seem to appear in the ORAS Maison just like they do in XY Maison.

The AI Multi partners are different, and you can't pick friend list partners as in XY Maison, as others have mentioned. As was suggested, a separate ranking list for ORAS AI Multis could have merit as the AI partner options are drastically different from those in XY, featuring sets not found in the Maison and Megas.





Eppie, I agree that making ORAS Maison more interesting would be good. Howewer, I don't think that splitting the rankings would accomplish that; at least personally, I have no interest in doing another run with say, Klefki, to score on a separate (but very similar) leaderboard. I do intend to try some new stuff (possibly hitting the leaderboards in the process) in ORAS, though, which is where most of the interesting stuff in ORAS Maison looks to be given the lack of real changes to the facility. There's also ongoing streaks to play in XY - there's no chance I'd commit to chasing large streaks on an ORAS Triples leaderboard prior to finishing the ongoing XY Triples streak.





Speaking of new stuff, I've briefly given Prankster Leer a spin in ORAS Maison Triples, beating the Chatelaine with it - though I don't intend to go further any time soon. It seems more viable than I'd thought, so I will post the team:

Team Leer
​

Set details

Talonflame @ Choice Band ** U-Ship
Ability: Gale Wings
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SDef
-Brave Bird
-Flare Blitz
-Tailwind
-Protect

Meowstic @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 HP, 172 Def, 4 SDef, 76 Spe
-Leer
-Fake Out
-Sunny Day
-Quick Guard

Sawk @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sturdy
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Close Combat
-Knock Off
-Ice Punch
-Thunder Punch

Gastrodon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Storm Drain
Nature: Modest
EVs: 180 HP, 92 Def, 220 SAtk, 12 SDef
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam
-Scald
-Sludge Bomb

Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
Nature: Brave
IVs: 0 Speed
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SDef
-King's Shield
-Iron Head
-Shadow Sneak
-Sacred Sword

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Return
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Protect

Comments

The idea posted a while ago developed into a viable team with the power of Gastrodon and Mega Salamence.

The lead strategy is simple: use Prankster Leer at 147 Speed to drop the enemies' Defense by one stage (increasing physical damage taken by 50%), followed by Gale Wings Brave Bird at 146 Speed and Close Combat at 205 Speed. The other three moves provide control for when Leer is not the ideal move; Fake Out needs no explanation. Sunny Day cancels out Hail and Sandstorm that would break Sawk's Sturdy and Meowstic's Focus Sash and activate dangerous abilities like Sand Veil and Sand Rush. Quick Quard reliably stops all opposing Fake Out users due to moving at +4 priority while Fake Out is at +3 (thanks to atsync for pointing this out; I overlooked it thinking it wouldn't outspeed faster Fake Out users).

Talonflame's movepool is narrow enough that Tailwind will fit on any set; for the last slot, Protect is preferred over U-Turn to better handle bad lead match-ups without being forced to switch or sac Talonflame. U-Turn would accomplish the same result in some cases, but for the absolute worst-case scenarios, Protect seems more valuable to me.

Sawk is straightforward; Close Combat, Knock Off and Ice Punch are mandatory. Thunder Punch is picked for the last slot to hit Fire/Flying-types and Gyarados in a pinch. Sawk is used due to it having access to Sturdy, improving the fragile front row's reliability by doubling up on SturdySash and giving it more staying power than any other Scarfed Fighting-type can reach, especially with Sunny Day support.



Gastrodon covers Talonflame's weaknesses while not hitting allies with Earthquake and Aegislash handles Sawk's. The two are also bulky and can survive under Trick Room, which is important as the lead gambit is quite vulnerable to it.

Mega Salamence, the final piece introduced in ORAS, rounds out the team with Intimidate support in conjunction with Assault Vest and Aerilate Return to capitalize on Leer, forming a Water/Dragon/Steel core with Aegislash and Gastrodon. Earthquake hitting allies is not ideal, but it's MegaMence's best coverage option, rarely used, and not outright murderous like STAB Earthquake.

I'm sorry if you've explained this before, but can you quickly explain the EV spread? I was looking at making a Gastrodon now with the release of Earth Power again and was curious as top why you chose that spread.

 

[turskain]

I'm sorry if you've explained this before, but can you quickly explain the EV spread? I was looking at making a Gastrodon now with the release of Earth Power again and was curious as top why you chose that spread.

The spread emphasizes HP and Defense to augment Gastrodon's low base Defense (68) while surviving weaker special STAB Grass attacks (fiddling with some useful calculators in order to work out the specific spread in a convenient way):

252+ SpA Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 180 HP / 12 SpD Assault Vest Gastrodon: 172-208 (82.2 - 99.5%)
252+ SpA Wise Glasses Gourgeist-Average Energy Ball vs. 180 HP / 12 SpD Assault Vest Gastrodon: 172-208 (82.2 - 99.5%)

220 Special Attack EVs maximize the stat boost from a Modest nature to hit an arbitrary power target. There are 4 unused EV points on the spread (504 total) since I liked the idea of it having 59 Speed with Brave 0 Speed Aegislash sitting at exactly 58. Moving 4 or more EVs into Speed is an option to creep over Regigigas and others.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

Whelp, since not -everything- has been carbon copied, I'm dying to fight Mara or her parallel universe counterpart to learn wether they've fixed her team selection or not. Unlike Anastasia, it'll be much easier to tell which Hex Maniac runs TR teams, though the potential is always there for trolling; what's stopping her from leading one or both Slowthings and a Gourgeist/Cofagrigus/Reuniclus? =P

Also, since I'm comparatively new to these boards, typically how long have you guys gone since a release before TRE graces you with an immensely helpful data dump?