Most Disappointingly Weak NPC

A compliment to the other thread. This is a thread for those characters that appear after the most epic of epic build ups... and being absolutely disappointing. Just pathetic.

Secondary Topic: Refitting the NPC, how you would have made him better. If possible, try to stick to just changing moves, but if it really is a lost cause, you can change some Pokemon.


I'll just talk about one, probably the most obvious one:


RBY, Champion Blue

So, RBY's final boss match is set up to be the most epic thing in Pokemon. Actually, for a lot of people, it probably was the most epic thing in Pokemon-- but thinking about what the battle really represented; the last conflict, the final battle for the top, the showdown with your repeating nemesis... it really should have been a lot harder. Blue has a lot of WTF? going on in his team, especially disappointing considering that looking at the Pokemon themselves-- it's clear the developers had a sense for which Pokemon really were the best and strongest; they just watered them down so far with bad moves and a crappy NPC that you really had to TRY to lose this fight.

Pidgeot
-Whirldwind
-Sky Attack
-Wing Attack
-Mirror Move

Ok, first and obvious question is wtf Pidgeot. I mean, it's a fucking Pidgeot... as if it weren't bad enough that it's a Pidgeot... the no-in-battle effect Whirlwind, the charge-up Sky Attack, the 35 base power Wing Attack, and the unreliable opponent-reliant mirror move... god, talk about absolute suck. If they just HAD to keep Pidgeot in the team, try something more like:

Pidgeot
-Hyper Beam
-Fly
-Toxic
-Double Team (or Sand Attack)

For shit and giggles. Double Team up, Toxic the opponent, than stall with Fly until they get into Hyper Beam range. Throw in some Full Restores and this could make some rage quits.

Alakazam
-Psybeam
-Psychic
-Recover
-Reflect

Eh, probably the only respectable Pokemon on the whole team. Could use T-Wave over Psybeam though.

Rhydon
-Tail Whip
-Fury Attack
-Horn Drill
-Leer

Wow... you really couldn't make a set more pathetic than this... Tail Whip + Leer... lol Also keep in mind that in RBY, Horn Drill will always fail if you are slower than the opponent... I hope you have SOMETHING on your team with better than base 40 Speed lol.

Rhydon
-Rock Slide
-Earthquake
-Body Slam
-Hyper Beam

Come on, this is the Champion here... he should fight like one. He already can't switch, so at least make the pokes as beastly as possible.

Exeggcutor
-Barrage
-Hypnosis
-Stomp

Probably the saddest of the whole bunch... Exeggcutor comes with the inaccurate Hypnosis (as if every player wasn't packing the Pokeflute...), and two pathetically weak normal attacks. Exegg is one of the strongest tanks/special attackers in the game; but as a 12 year old, I definitely didn't know it because of this piece-of-shit.

Exeggcutor
-Psychic
-Mega Drain
-Double-Edge
-Stun Spore

Stun Spore to force you to use not-Pokeflute, Psychic and Mega Drain to throw around STAB attacks, and Double Edge to hit physical.

Gyarados
-Hydro Pump
-Leer
-Hyper Beam
-Dragon Rage

Ok, so Gyarados is a little bit more respectable, but honestly Leer and Dragon Rage really should be dropped for Blizzard and Thunderbolt, especially when Blue has zero Electric or Ice attacks in his whole team...

Arcanine
-Roar
-Ember
-Leer
-Take Down

Seriously? It's best attack was the move I used with my Charmander to beat metapods with... wtf? Obviously, Arcanine is seriously fucked here. Why are they making us fight an Arcanine worse than Blaine's...?

Arcanine
-Fire Blast
-Body Slam
-Hyper Beam
-Reflect / Dig

Arcy just needs a whole re-work for obvious reasons...

Looking at these 6 pokes it's really hard to tell if Blue did a really great or really terrible job picking pokes. Obviously after Pidgeot, he did a good job recruiting some major power houses, but boy he must not have done any research into how attacks actually work. I have no idea how he even managed to beat all the gyms or elite four with this shit. Actually, that would be interesting, building a team similar to this and see if you can beat the RBY elite four without switching (since Blue doesn't do this). It would probably be impossible to get past Lorelei.


The starters are BETTER... but... erm... yeah:


Charizard: Rage / Slash / Fire Spin / Fire Blast
Watch, it'll rage on the first turn I bet, lol

Blastoise: Bite / Withdraw / Blizzard / Hydro Pump
ok, kinda good here wtf withdraw... and why bite > strength?

Venusaur: Growth / Razor Leaf / Mega Drain / Solar Beam
So... I just send in my Grass-resist right? Watch, after Growth boosting, I bet it will only use Razor Leaf... lol

RBY Brock, Not only does Bulbasaur and Squirtle Sweep it, Even Charmander Does, at least Yellow made it better that you can't hit it with Pikachu.


Brock's Team
Geodude:
Moves: Tackle/Defense Curl.

Really, Really, a Stab Rock Move would have complemented it more. Rock Slide. Or just Dig for the Lolz. But The Most Horrid is Defense Curl, Not only the Starters are Specially Based, (Ember, Vine Whip, Bubble) Its the Fact that its useless. Super Effective physical moves do Still do a number on it. And the Crit rate, due to Gen 1 Crit Mechanics, Mankey would Sweep a +6 Geodude A Turn or Two.

Onix
Tackle/Bind/Bide/Screech

Terribro, on Bide, just Leech Seed Bulbasaur, and then proceed to Tackle, to take minimum Damage. Bind with 70 Base Speed is probably the best move Here. Again, Dig, Rock Slide.

RB Erika's Tangela:
It Is a Grass Type for Crying Out Loud, It only has Constrict and Bind. The Former is weaker than tackle, the latter is not good against Faster Pokemon. Tangela can easily Learn Absorb, Mega Drain and Stuff, why doesn't it have it.




About Gyarados, you are Absolutely Correct.

Only RBY? Sheesh.

R/S Wallace:

Luvdisc
-Flail
-Attract
-Water Pulse
-Sweet Kiss

wtf ._.

Sealeo
-Encore
-Body Slam
-Water Pulse
-Aurora Beam

Weak

Seaking
-P
-H
-U
-CK YEAH SEAKING

Whiscash
-Earthquake
-Amnesia
-Water Pulse
-Rain Dance

One of two good pokemon on his team

Milotic
-Water Pulse
-Ice Beam
-Twister
-Recover

Retardedly good.

Wallace couldve had Starmie,couldve had Lanturn, couldve had Kingdra. But noooooooooooooooo.

True RL, Don't Forget Juan in E, which had the Same Horrible Luvdisc as well.

Also, RS Level 31 Slaking, Had Focus Punch, and doesn't have a Substitute and it also Has Truant. Brilliant TrollFreak. Brilliant.

Honestly I don't mind Brock being bad, hes the first gym leader so I don't mind him being easy.

Anyone think Blaine is a joke?

His team:
Growlithe: Ember/Leer/Agility/Take Down
Ponyta: Tail Whip/Stomp/Growl/Fire Spin
Rapidash: Tail Whip/Stomp/Growl/Fire Spin
Arcanine: Roar/Ember/Fire Blast/Take Down

WTF at the Pre-Evos? Should be Ninetails and Magmar, and the move sets arent too bad being most Fire Pokemon dont really have great movepools in RBY.

However, If I did Blaine in the remake Leaf Green:

Magmar: Fire Blast/Psychic/ThunderPunch/Cross Chop
Ninetails: Fire Blast/Confuse Ray/Will-O-Wisp/Faint Attack
Rapidash: Fire Blast/Sunny Day/SolarBeam/Body Slam
Arcanine: Fire Blast/Crunch/ExtremeSpeed/Iron Tail

Edit: Actually, I remembered Blaine's team in Yellow being pretty decent.

You can act like Gary is a disappointment all you want, but when I was a kid, he was a tough motherfucker. Also his movesets were not deliberately chosen, they're simply the level-up moves the Pokemon would have at that level. Whenever a fifth move is learned, the least recent one is deleted for it. Daycare style. Like with the gym leaders and Elite Four, he had some TM additions to his Pokemon in Yellow.

I think Surge is pretty hilarious considering his gym is right next to Diglett cave. He's one of the few gyms that actually has a strong TM move, too.

Actually, that would be interesting, building a team similar to this and see if you can beat the RBY elite four without switching (since Blue doesn't do this). It would probably be impossible to get past Lorelei.

Click to expand...

Maybe if you use Venusaur you can use beat her (Gary's is Level 65, her Lapras is Level 56). At the worst, Alakazam should get in some kills.

Sabrina in Yellow is pretty terrible...Sure Psychic is a powerful typing in Gen I, but there is no excuse for this...

Abra (Lv50)
-Teleport
-Flash

Dear Sabrina, why did you give Abra no attacking moves at all? Flash can be disruptive, but...

Kadabra (Lv50)
-Psychic
-Recover
-Kinesis
-Psywave

Okay, this is a little better, but Psychic & Psywave is a little redundant...

Alakazam (Lv50)
-Psychic
-Psywave
-Reflect
-Recover

Again good, but again with the redundant coverage...

The problem with Sabrina is this. Her Abra. Flash could screw accuracy, but what is not to stop me from using a Dragonair with Substitute/Agility/Wrap/Filler? Once Substitute is set up, I could simply spam Agility, then start spamming Wrap until Sabrina dies without too much resistance? Abra needs attacking moves, something more like this:

Abra (Lv50)
-Submission/Reflect
-Flash
-Psychic
-Tri Attack

Much better. Reflect softens Physical Attacks, whilst Submission gives coverage, albeit on the weaker Physical side...Tri Attack even helps for hitting Psychics...

As for Kadabra, just replace Psywave & problem solved!...

Kadabra (Lv50)
-Psychic
-Recover
-Kinesis
-Dig/Reflect

Yes Dig is Physical, but Kadabra needs extra coverage...Reflect can also work here too.

Same with Kadabra for Alakazam - Replace Psywave...

Alakazam (Lv50)
-Psychic
-Dig/Hyper Beam
-Reflect
-Recover

More Physical coverage, but you cannot just rely on Psychic moves...

===

Also, yeah, Wallace in RS/Juan in Emerald is pretty terrible as well as RB Blaine. And after looking at the OP, Blue is defitely a joke in RB...And Surge...Great Gym...At the wrong place, also only one Pokemon in Yellow to fit in with the Anime in Yellow...wtf?

Dude, Sabrina was my hardest fight in Yellow. I did the Saffron part before Koga so I was pretty underleveled and her Alakazam destroyed me. I remember as a kid, the Pokemon that I used to beat her Alakazam...was Flareon. Flareon was actually pretty good at taking Psychic, and Body Slam destroyed it.

rlyn99 said:

Luvdisc
-Flail
-Attract
-Water Pulse
-Sweet Kiss

wtf ._.

Click to expand...

actually,

D/P Palmer.


Milotic @
Dragon Pulse
Hypnosis
Hydro Pump
Recover

And where will that Salac Berry get you? :|
Still pretty good though, I guess. Better than...



Rhyperior @
Flamethrower
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Rock Wrecker

Palmer was too poor to teach Rhyperior the Elemental Punches, despite theoretically owning infinite Battle Points.


Dragonite @
Stone Edge
Dragon Rush
Aqua Tail
Iron Tail

Stone "worst move in the game" Edge joins its three companions, Dragon "shit accuracy" Rush, Aqua "bs 10%" Tail and Iron "useless coverage, even worse accuracy" Tail, in a journey to missdom!

Seriously though, I'm glad they changed it for PtHGSS. Makes it more challenging :>

Is there even a question here though? GSC Janine by far.

Levels in the 30s that late... Really Game Freak? I know you were trying for "weaker than her father" flavor but it backfired.

Easy to make her not so terrible either. Just raise levels.

Every single rebattleable trainer in G/S/C and R/S/E after clearing the storyline, with the notable exception of Red, of course.

Post-game, you're meant to catch and train 'em all, and have fun trying your best at the Battle Tower/whatever is in fashion that generation. It's not so fun preparing teams for the Tower/Frontier when the strongest opponents you can face regularly has their strongest Pokémon at lvl. 50 (in GSC) or 58 (RSE). Especially Ruby/Sapphire felt like they were really, really lacking a post-game adventure. You beat Steven, catch Rayquaza and Lati@s, travel to the Battle Tower... and that's it. Hoenn was a beautiful region, but if you wanted to train up a team to use in the Battle Tower, you'd better like grinding the Elite Four.

StarmieLazer said:

True RL, Don't Forget Juan in E, which had the Same Horrible Luvdisc as well.

Also, RS Level 31 Slaking, Had Focus Punch, and doesn't have a Substitute and it also Has Truant. Brilliant TrollFreak. Brilliant.

Click to expand...

just gonna say that Emerald Juan also has that ChestoResto Double Team Kingdra.

I had to stall the hell out of its PP AND Juan's potions, the first time i played through Emerald. that guy was a complete bitch. You basically have no dragon moves at that point (unless you backtracked back to Sky Pillar and master ball rayquaza), but without Rayquaza your only other source of dragon moves is Altaria/Flygon, both of which are x4 weak to ice.

also slaking isn't that bad once you figure out that you basically have a free turn half the time

One of the most disappointing would have been Archer in HG, because as he is the final boss I expected him to have at least 2 fully evolved pokemon and 3 other somewhat strong pokemon, but no Game Freak decided to make him have a Level 38 Houndoom as his strongest Pokemon and to give him a moveset of Smog, Bite, Fire Fang, and Faint Attack. And then Give him a Koffing with Sludge, Tackle, Smoke Screen, and Haze coupled with a Houndour with Crunch, Fire Fang, Faint Attack and Roar. I knocked out Houndour and Houndoom with ny level 39 Feraligatr with a couple of OHKO Surfs ( My Feraligatr had high Sp. Atk) And then brutalized Koffing with my Lv.35 Kadabra.

I think that it would've been better if his Houndoom had been bumbed up to Lv.41 had Thunder Fang instead of Smog and Replaced Faint Attack with Howl to at least raise his Attack somewhat. I also would've evolved Koffing to Weezing and would've replaced Tackle with Explosion. An then Instead of Houndour he could have had a Haunter or Gengar at level 39 and with the moves Shadow Ball , Sucker Punch, Curse, and Hypnosis

Ghetis. Good god, they just gave him a few "decent" Pokemon, a Cofagrigus, and a Hydregion and called it a day. Wow. Only two Pokemon that fit his character.

IstheCakeReallyaLie said:

Ghetis. Good god, they just gave him a few "decent" Pokemon, a Cofagrigus, and a Hydregion and called it a day. Wow. Only two Pokemon that fit his character.

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But that Hydreigon will kick the fuck clean out of you, so no.

And seriously, level 54? What's with those underleveled Pokémon? The lowest level your Hydreigon can be is 64.

If you play through the game without excessive grinding, your Pokemon will probably be at similar or lower levels.

I'd mention the various Magikarp fishermen throughout the games, but you did say something about build up soooo...

Anyway, DP flint was a pretty big dissapointment primarily because he has only two fire types. He makes up for it somewhat with Sunny Day I guess and double team BP Drifblim is just asshole-ish.

Janine, as already mentioned, is hilariously weak, more so than probably any other "boss" trainer in the game. In GSC, her Pokemon were around 10 levels lower than the surrounding gyms and probably 10-20 below your own, on top of just being generally shitty to begin with. Though the levels get upped in HGSS, her Pokemon are still lower in level than the other Kanto gymleaders and they're just as weak. When your best Pokemon is a VENOMOTH pre-gen V that's seriously sad.

Another one worth mentioning is Brycen, who is just saddled with bad Pokemon with bad typing. If you have any Pokemon that have a type advantage over him you're set, and considering his type is Ice you have to be TRYING to not have a type advantage. Worse, they're all pure Ice meaning they don't have decent secondary types to fall back on like Pryce did.

dp flint was more of because of designer stupidity(only 2 fire-type families? lol), they had to give him filler to fill out his roster, having only infernape and rapidash would be even worse >_>" at least they did fix that in platinum.

i'm pretty sure ghetsis is anything but weak though :/

TM13IceBeam said:

dp flint was more of because of designer stupidity(only 2 fire-type families? lol), they had to give him filler to fill out his roster, having only infernape and rapidash would be even worse >_>" at least they did fix that in platinum./

Click to expand...

Although, I agree its better in Platinum that he has all Fire types, he was so much easier to beat.

Just spam Earthquake.

The opposite gender rival in RSE is just pathetic. In your last fight their starter is two levels away from being fully evolved and they only have four pokemon.

The RS Swellow can be annoying with double team, Marshtomp has only mud shot and takedown. In emerald you will always fight two grass types because of Tropius and Ludicolo. It's not very memorable and Wally of all people proves to be a better and more memorable rival in the end, isn't that sad.

A simple balancing out of types would be useful for the rse rival in general. Also a really bad placement, since if I remember you can just ignore your rival if you don't need the department store in their final match.

I may have to say BW Cynthia, given that I soloed her with a freshly caught wild Pokémon.

The problem is her Spiritomb's moveset. Sucker Punch / Shadow Sneak / Will-O-Wisp / Double Team. Out of those moves, the first doesn't hit things that don't attack, the second doesn't hit Normal types, the third doesn't hit (or at least, doesn't negatively affect) Magic Guard Pokémon with no physical attacks, and the fourth doesn't hit anything.

So bring out a Magic Guard Clefairy, and Spiritomb can't do anything. I gave mine a moveset of Cosmic Power / Work Up / Stored Power / Toxic (all TMs or relearner moves, so no training required), and set up to +6 / +6 / +6 / +6 against it. Then killed it with Toxic, then swept the rest of her team.

I don't think I've actually ever fought her normally. (Later on, I'd stick competitive Pokémon I was training up for VGC in my party, with Exp. Shares, and let Clefairy solo her to donate them experience.)

It would have to be May in RSE, not getting to fight your rival's starter @ fully evolved :/. Then there's really no competition in terms of rivals, the only other guy is wally but I guess his last battle is cool and all.

Silver in HGSS is also quite dissapointing
All the team rocket HGSS bosses<
Herpin' Ridiculous

Ghetsis' Hydreigon surely gave most a run for their money. One of the good endgame bosses. Illegal leveled fully evolveds are common with npcs and it's not like you can't do the same through emerald pomeg glitch. No big deal

All of them in BW? Seriously, whenever people think about the most difficult NPC battles they've had, 9 times out of 10 those battles are in the first 3 generations. BW was just laughably easy so hopefully BW2 can change that up a bit