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Lati@s in OU??

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If Lati@s were alowed in OU, Registeel would be OU xD. Registeel needs more love, it walls really good, and can Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave (hurting Lati@s), elemental punches, (Ice Punch to Lati@s), Iron Head (flinchax with Thunder Wave), Explosion ...

Anyway, any good steel, with a decent Sp. Def will be a problem to them. I think that we should do a tournament, and if they are too strong, the will be Uber.
 
Specs HP Fire is a 2HKO on Magnezone and Metagross. It's a 3-4HKO on Registeel. So it goes like this.

Registeel switches in.
Latios attacks.
Latios attacks.
Registeel attacks.
Latios attacks.
Registeel faints or attacks.
Latios attacks.
Registeel is definately dead by now.

Ice Punch is not a 2HKO and Registeel is not a solid counter. I suppose with Amnesia but that's pushing it. Restalk works as well.

EDIT: Negative nature, no Attk Latios EQ is *gasp* Heatran killer. Shame it can't do the same for Empoleon, though there's always the fourth slot for Thunder(bolt).
 
Anyway, any good steel, with a decent Sp. Def will be a problem to them
Besides Scizor, Cursesteel and Metagross, there really isn't other steel types that can easily stop them.
 
I know it probably won't happen but I have to provoke discussion.

Seriously, their movepools are no bigger than Tar, Nite, even the damn Nidos. They can definately be countered, because they're not fit to mix sweep.. so they can be walled decently. And, they would not centralize the metagame.

Levitate is far from an uuber trait... their are countless standard pokemon that get it so that point is irrelevant.
You are referring to Bronzong and Cressy
 
I wouldn't call Registeel the best Lati@s counter yet. If you're running non Curse Registeel, it will be the one walled instead, because Lati@s can clearly Refresh/Safeguard at your statuses and CM x6, and then finally beating it down with Dragon Pulse.

If you think it can Calm Mind six times while taking many Ice Punches,think again...
Besides,Registeel can do some gimmicky things(Zap Cannon,Substitute,Shadow Claw,Swagger while it tries to CM...)
 
Azelf, Mismagius, Gengar, and Weezing also get levitate. They are standard as well.

I think Latios/Latias should be tested in OU just to fairly determine their tier status.


Edit: Registeel vs Lati@s. If Lati@s has Refresh/Safeguard and CM, then it has move for two attacks or one attack and recover. Lati@s risks getting frozen by Ice punch while i calm minds up. Also Weavile can potentially switch in while you calm mind.
 
That doesn't really show anything. "Soul Dew Lati@s has Levitate too, but it's uber!" means just as much. "Dusknoir and Aerodactyl and Absol and Mewtwo have the same Pressure trait but they're in different tiers." The idea is to look at how good they are overall, and Lati@s surely have more things going for them than any of the ones you named - they flat-out destroy all of these in either offense or defense, and then beat them at what they're best at too, usually.
 
If you think it can Calm Mind six times while taking many Ice Punches,think again...
Besides,Registeel can do some gimmicky things(Zap Cannon,Substitute,Shadow Claw,Swagger while it tries to CM...)

Zap Cannon does lol to Lati@s, pretty sure Safeguard blocks Swagger, Shadow Claw does even less than Ice Punch. For the record Ice Punch does about 36% max to Latias, and that's from a 200 Atk Registeel. It can't freeze Latias due to Safeguard. Also let's not forget Recover.
 
Funny, I thought of the same thing before. As it turns out,

Latias @Leftovers
Bold Nature
EVs:252hp/112spd/140spattk

Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse
Calm Mind
Recover
Thunderbolt

and

Latios @Leftovers
Timid Nature
EVs:200hp/56spattk/252spd

Draco Meteor
Calm Mind
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam

can rape many things in the whole OU teir.
 
Magnezone can't do a thing to the Latis, you dolts. That's like saying Magnezone can take on Celebi. Like Celebi, the Lati twins resist Tbolt and have too much SpDef while lacking a 4x weakness necessary for HP Ice to have any real killing power. What is Magnezone going to do, try to Metal Sound and get two-shot through its resistance in the process?

it almost seems too powerful to bother testing but you have to realize that with stuff like weavile tar garchomp specsmence being whored, psychic dragon is pretty much the worst typing right now.

Dragon still has a good set of resistances and the fact remains it's arguably the best offensive typing due to lack of resists and the amazing power of the new Dragon moves (revampoed Outrage and Draco Meteor). They're still immune to arguably the most prevalent physical attack, Earthquake, and they outspeed and OHKO every one of their "threats" but Weavile (faster) and T-Tar (can't OHKO because of the lame-o Sandstorm buff).

Latias is also a fantastic support unit, but that didn't stop us from deciding to unban Celebi and Jirachi late in Advance times. ;/

Unfortunately, I have to somewhat agree with Jibaku. They're not exactly Mewtwo and we've already given the other "lesser ubers" a chance to be used in standard play. But if you think Salamence and friends are bad enough as it is, wait until you start battling Salamence+ and see how bad they are. There is little doubt to me that they would be "proven" too good for OU still.

The thing about "testing" is, especially in a tournament setting (like we were once going to do for Wobbuffet in Smogon Tournaments, what shoddy is doing with Speed Deoxys, etc.), is that the pokémon being tested is going to be used more than ever and going to be prepared for more than ever over the "test" period. The hype of testing, let alone the actual power of, the Lati twins is going to implore virtually everyone to use at least one. On that same token, most people are going to be extremely prepared for them, packing all sorts of weird T-Tar sets or relying on Weavile to revenge kill them every single time more so than normal. It's not as true a representation of their usage OR power as it could be, though it's still a little better than mere theory.

And yeah, keep telling us their oh-so-common weaknesses. "Celebi has SEVEN weaknesses, not uber! Ho-oh is 4x weak to SR, we should unban it!" The list of Bug users is basically just 2-3 pokemon and Gengar/Mismagius aren't exactly a ton of Ghost users. Not enough learns Sucker Punch and few things actually carry Dark Pulse/Crunch. Pursuit is strong, but everyone knows the 3-5 pokémon that typically use it and it won't hurt non-STAB anyway. Dragon weakness is pretty "meh" since they already kill too much at neutral power and Lati@s outspeeds other Dragons anyway. Ice is their only "big" weakness that a large variety of pokémon can take advantage of, but their defenses are too strong to be phased by most non-STAB Ice attacks (and Weavile already takes advantage of their Dark weakness).

Taking garchomp as an example, it may not be able to switch into a dragon attack but with prediction, it can certainly switch in and scare lati@s off with scarf outrage. Perhaps prediction may not be the best example as it's liable to debate.

Using "prediction" as a justification for other pokemon winning is retarded. The opponent could just as well predict you're switching to Garchomp that turn and blow you away with Draco Meteor. Oops!

As for Blissey, Salamence is more scared than Lati@s in general. A surprise CB set instead of today's more common Specs set may force Blissey to switch once (with half its health gone), but Salamence is also OHKOed by its Ice Beam and most be weary anyway. Lati@s doesn't really give a crap. Also, though not so much a CBer, Latios can play a DD set fairly well.
 
Also, about everyone bringing Weavile up, Latias can survive a Metagross Choice Band Meteor Mash. Weavile's either doing not enough with Pursuit, or your opponent gets a free ticket to Counter.
 
Also, about everyone bringing Weavile up, Latias can survive a Metagross Choice Band Meteor Mash. Weavile's either doing not enough with Pursuit, or your opponent gets a free ticket to Counter.

Ok, but who says that Weavile HAS to use Pursuit? The person using Weavile can predict things too. It can still OHKO Latias quite easily with Ice Punch unless it uses a boatload of defense/HP EVs to survive.

If Weavile is carrying a CB with a neutral nature and 252 atk EVs, and it does Ice Punch, even to a 252/252 +Def Natured Latias, it still does 74.73% - 87.91%.

The minimum that Latias needs to survive a CB Ice Punch from Weavile is 252 HP/212 Def Neutral Nature. It just barely survives it taking 85.16% - 99.73%, and after using that many EVs just for that, it's not going to have much else to put anywhere.

For Night Slash it needs 252 HP/140 Def Neutral Nature to survive and just barely survives that as well.

I'd say that Weavile does a great job of revenge-killing Latias. It can eve come in on Psychic from a SpecsLati and kill it with Pursuit. Or it can get OHKOed by Ice Punch.

Remember, a lot of Weaviles are also Sashed. What's Latias going to do about that especially considering that Weavile is faster?
 
I did another damage calc and this came up; its Scarf Chomp vs Latias.

Adamant 252 Atk Garchomp (Scarfed, mind you, not Banded) using Outage vs Positive Nature Latias with 252/252 HP and Def: 92.31% - 108.52%

Latias will hardly EVER run that much HP and Def anyway, and with a plus Def Nature. So your typical Scarf Garchomp can easily revenge kill (a OHKO) Lati@s as well as Weavile. However most Lati@s users will know what to do when faced with that threatening Garchomp anyway, but you could EQ for a free kill on the switch to, say Metagross.

On a side note, I ran (Adamant) SCARF TYRANITAR into calculation using Crunch on the same Latias, which comes out to be 63-74%. 2HKO, in the worst case scenario. And that's using an item that doesn't give him a boost at all. Choice Band, though, I found to do 94-110%, so it isn't a guaranteed KO, but again, this is assuming you're up against a Latias with weird EVs when it should have a lot in SAtk.
 
Also, whoever was talking about safeguard, CM, and Recover letting it not be countered by registeel, may I ask what the crap you're going to attack with, that's three moves of support to keep a sweeper from being walled, then what the crap is it going to sweep with, with one move left. Registeel will gaugh off a dragon attack, a dark type can come in if your attack is psychic, and if you're using a fire attack so you can kill registeal, hello heatran/ninetails/houndoom.

Now I don't know the power of the Latis, never used them, but safeguard/CM/Recover/Attack is pure dumb.
 
Latias, with neutral nature and 252 Sp.Attack EVs and 6 CMs does 39.01-45.88% on an absolute max Sp.Defense Registeel with Dragon Pulse, Regi dies as it can't recover in anyway besides Rest. That same Regi will only do 31.79-37.09% with Ice Punch(assuming Regi has 4 Attack EVs and Lati has 4 HP EVs)
 
Also, whoever was talking about safeguard, CM, and Recover letting it not be countered by registeel, may I ask what the crap you're going to attack with, that's three moves of support to keep a sweeper from being walled, then what the crap is it going to sweep with, with one move left. Registeel will gaugh off a dragon attack, a dark type can come in if your attack is psychic, and if you're using a fire attack so you can kill registeal, hello heatran/ninetails/houndoom.

Now I don't know the power of the Latis, never used them, but safeguard/CM/Recover/Attack is pure dumb.

Yeah, sounds about right. =X

Steel resisting Dragon means little when you're fully CM'd up. STAB doesn't hurt either. Those 3 "support" moves are the means to get the 6 CMs against things that don't threaten it aka non Curse Registeel.
 
Yeah, sounds about right. =X

Steel resisting Dragon means little when you're fully CM'd up. STAB doesn't hurt either. Those 3 "support" moves are the means to get the 6 CMs against things that don't threaten it aka non Curse Registeel.

And that you have one attack move for things that do, and latis are still OHKO'd by STAB physical ice/dragon moves. Also, recover has limited PP, more so than Icepunch.
 
Deoxys-D is too defensive for OU?Wel,Crescelia is more defensive(the two are psychic).But Deoxys can Knock Off,Recover(Crescelia have Moonlight/Wish),Iron Defense/Calm Mind to be a insanely defensive,Spikes,Counter/Mirror Coat...

They look like each other,but the insanely better movepool of Deoxys keeps him in Ubers.The same happens to Lati@s /Salamence.

That's my opinion
 
Using "prediction" as a justification for other pokemon winning is retarded. The opponent could just as well predict you're switching to Garchomp that turn and blow you away with Draco Meteor. Oops!

As for Blissey, Salamence is more scared than Lati@s in general. A surprise CB set instead of today's more common Specs set may force Blissey to switch once (with half its health gone), but Salamence is also OHKOed by its Ice Beam and most be weary anyway. Lati@s doesn't really give a crap. Also, though not so much a CBer, Latios can play a DD set fairly well.

Yes clearly I realized prediction isn't the best of arguments which is why I said so and made my next point about how you could get that free switch.

Also, lati@s only doesn't give a crap if it has one of those 3 support / 1 attack movesets because any of the statuses blissey commonly inflicts will cripple it.

Salamence is still scarier for blissey and a team in general because there is no immediate danger to blissey when it comes to lati@s. Which allows you to scout its set and then counter accordingly. With salamence, you never know what to switch in until you know its set and with the mixmence set, it's hard to know what to switch in even when you do.

In the case of salamence vs blissey, guessing wrong and losing half your life is pretty damn bad in today's metagame where the special attackers hit so hard. Being on half life may mean you are no longer able to switch in to wall special attacks anymore so blissey may as well have died.

Blissey finds out lati@s has a cm set? It switches out with most of its health and has just scouted lati@s' set.

What it comes down to is...being unable to effectively run a physical or mixed set, the only way it's getting past blissey is to run the cm/safeguard/recover set. To point out how important it is for a special attacker to get past blissey is in today's metagame, just about every special sweeper whose main purpose is solely to sweep has some way to deal with blissey. Whether it's gengar/yanmega who sleeps it, or azelf/porygonz who uses nasty plot to try and overpower it. In the case of something like specsmence who just can't do it, it has been replaced almost entirely by the mixmence set which can.

Following the metagame, if the cm/safeguard/recover set is the only truly viable set, then it really is not that much different to the other stuff that can do it. Celebi and jirachi for example are the ones closest to its base stats.
 
Safeguard allows Lati@s to trade in its ways of gaining power: instead of doing better in type coverage (allowing better damage in the 0.5/1/2/4 scale) it gets its Calm Minds much more easily and also increases its own durability while he's at it.

Calm Mind/Dragon Pulse/Safeguard/Recover is a pretty tough set to handle, you're pretty much going to need Metagross and I think the Lati twins are durable enough to last long enough to either kill Metagross with Dragon Pulses and Spikes damage, or run it out of Meteor Mash PP (Pursuit isn't going to do enough unless Metagross is Choice Banded, which just speeds up its demise).

Though I really prefer any set that uses Draco Meteor over it because it hurts anything more that isn't named Blissey.
 
scarfchomp with 196 Sdef EVs survives a 350 Satk Dragon pulse 100% of the time.
standard CB Weavile survives even without any EVs and then its gg if you predict wrong...
max/max umbreon can trap a specslatios and PP/toxic stall him.

And it agree with the guy who said recover/cm/dragon pulse/safeguard is a bad idea, have you ever seen a DD, dragon claw, roost and safeguard dragonite?
 
Recover/CM/DP/Safeguard Latias does work very well though, at least in Ubers(I personally run Roar for CM wars and such though). You just jump onto something using special attacks and you almost certainly force them out in the long run(Latias w/ Soul Dew can take Kyogre Ice Beams and CM up against it fine, without Dew I reckon it'd take most things thrown around in OU with some EVs, though I haven't run any calcs), it's an awesome late game sweeper once physical threats are gone.
 
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