This thread will be moderated to keep discussion focused.
Critical Hits for Multi-Hit Moves
Basically, there is some unrealism as to Critical Hits for Multi-Hit Moves & how they interact with Screens, Stat Boosts, Burns, etc. zarator outlined the issue & has proposed a solution here:
There has been overwhelming support to move this to a discussion, & so, we are here to discuss Critical Hits for Multi-Hit Moves.At the moment, the Critical Hit description about multi-hit moves is a bit ambigous:
Critical Hits:
A critical hit adds three (3) BAP to any attack before applying weakness and resistance. Critical hits ignore Reflect and Light Screen, ignore the Base Attack Power drop from the Burn status, and only apply stat boosts if positive boosts exceed negative boosts. Super Luck increases the Critical Hit Stage of a Pokemon by 1, and Sniper increases the damage dealt by critical hits to five (5) instead of three (3) for a one-hit move, three (3) instead of two (2) for a two-hit move, and two (2) instead of one (1) for a multi-hit move.
The main culprit, as many of you know, is: if one of the hits of a multi-hit moves crit, does the entire damage goes past screens/burn/stat changes? At the moment, if we go for the most strict interpretation of the text, it does, and it makes multi-hit moves incredibly disruptive. While this may add a layer to strategies and such, I find the disruptive potential a bit excessive. Even in-game, the best option to use against a foe behind Reflect and with multiple Defense boost could be your multi-hit move if you have a good one, but the effect is nowhere as gamebreaking as in ASB, where the difference in dmg may be incredibly steep.
Now, the discussion wouldn't be complete if I didn't propose a solution to the issue, so there it is. My proposal is that, if a multi-hit move crits, one or more times, against a foe under the aforementioned conditions (burn, screens, stat changes), the move gets a damage boost called Pierce. Each crit grants a Pierce bonus damage equal to the Crit bonus + 1 (So, it would be 3 for a move like Double Kick, and 2 for a move like Pin Missile). If the Pierce damage would raise the dmg of the move at or above the level it would reach if it ignored screens/burn/stat changes, you just calculate it in the old way. Since it may seem rather strange of a mechanic, and since my wording is obviously horrible, let me give you an example:
Ex1: A Hardy Syclant with no items and Technician uses Icicle Spear against a Hardy Mew behind Reflect and with +1 Defense. Icicle Spear hits 5 times, and crits twice. Let's try to calculate the dmg with my newly proposed system:
4*5*0.67 [Base Power] + 3 [STAB] + 2 [Crit] + 4 [Pierce] - 1.75 [Stage Dif] = 20.65 damage
And now with the old system
4*5 [Base Power] + 3 [STAB] + 2 [Crit] = 25 damage
Since the "Pierce version" does less damage, you would apply it over the "old version"
Ex2: A Lonely Syclant with no items and Technician uses Icicle Spear against a Lonely Mew with +2 Defense. Icicle Spear hits 5 times, and crits 3 times. Let's try to calculate the dmg with my newly proposed system:
4*5 [Base Power] + 3 [STAB] + 3 [Stat Dif] + 3 [Crit] + 6 [Pierce] - 3.5 [Stage Dif] = 31.5 damage
And now with the old system:
4*5 [Base Power] + 3 [STAB] + 3 [Stat Dif] + 3 [Crit] = 29 damage
Since the "old version" does less damage, you would apply it over the "Pierce version"
Ex3: A Hardy Hitmonlee with no items and with Burn status uses Double Kick against a Hardy Snorlax behind Reflect. Double Kick crits 1 out of 2 times. Let's try to calculate the dmg with my newly proposed system:
(3*2*0.67 [Base Power] + 3 [STAB] + 3 [Stat Dif] - 3 [Burn] + 2 [Crit] + 3 [Pierce]) * 1.5 = 18.03 damage
And now with the old system:
(3*2 [Base Power] + 3 [STAB] + 3 [Stat Dif] + 2 [Crit]) * 1.5 = 21 damage
Since the "Pierce version" does less damage, you would apply it over the "old version".
While apparently convoluted, my proposal has the advantage of giving a partial boost to crits of multi-hit moves under burn/screen/stat change conditions, without making it gamebreaking - in the same vein with how it works in practice in-game. Thanks for your attention.
P.S.: If you can reword it in a nicer way, props for it.
EDIT: I'd like to add that, unlike what it seems, most times you wouldn't have to do two calculations every time. The above ones are just for the sake of the example. If a multi-hit move crits only once (which is the most common scenario), or even twice for a 4-5-hit move, you will always apply the "Pierce method", no need to doublecheck.
Discussion should focus around the following questions:
- Is the current issue with how Critical Hits from Multi-Hit Moves interacting with Screens, etc., big enough to warrant a change?
- Is the proposed "pierce" method seen as a viable way to fix this problems?
- Could it be more user user friendly?
- Are there better alternatives to the proposed pierce solution?
- Are there any other issues with how Critical Hits from Multi-Hit Moves interacting with Screens, etc., that can be raised?