The (Past) Dark Horse Project — Volume 1

ssbbm said:

tilt is like when you're playing really well but then you lose a match and then get pissed and lose another match and then get pissed and lose another match and so on

Click to expand...

Haahhaha.

Had that experience.
Thank you for your answer.

Peaked at #81 with cress under the alt "Miss K."

Proof:
Set I used:
Team:

It's basically Stunt's team with a few set differences. I use Ice beam over Psychic because otherwise standard offensive dragonite is troublesome if I have sun up. I forego toxic on chansey so I can have heal bell support, which all of my team has appreciated. In order to have toxic support for levitate/flying users (particularly calm mind latias) I gave it to Cress. I run less speed EVs on ninetales for more sp def, but run just enough to outspeed jolly breloom. HP ground on tentacruel is filler for whittling down heatran while the sun is up. I'll probably get rid of it for protect, purely to scout choice landorus/trick from rotom.

Pokemon Online Username: Y. Saigyouji
Hall of Fame Standing: /
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Sableye
Current Ladder Standing: 1000

Set I'm working with:

Sableye (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Foul Play
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Recover

Pokemon Online Username: bloo poo
Hall of Fame Standing: none
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Mamoswine
Current Ladder Standing: 1420

I plan to get as high as possible with just the standard SR Focus Sash Mamoswine

All right, I'm starting over. I stopped using Jolteon after going on major tilt and overall getting sick of the constant rain support. This time, I'm going to use a predictable yet awesome support Pokemon, Gorebyss!

Pokemon Online Username: NyxHax
Hall of Fame Standing: none
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Gorebyss
Current Ladder Standing: 1000

A simple fast pass set will do. I'll still be using rain support but my secret weapon won't absolutely depend on it to abuse Thunder as its most powerful STAB move like Jolteon did. The rain's going to serve as a defensive measure now. We'll see how this pans out! Wish me luck.

Pokemon Online Username: younglink26
Hall of Fame Standing: None
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Quagsire, Golbat, Bastiodon
Current Ladder Standing: 1251

Quagsire's already taken. I mean, you can still use it in your team of course, but you won't get credit for it if you make the hall of fame.

Pokemon Online Username: LeafBl1
Hall of Fame Standing: None
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Azelf, Rotom-C
Current Ladder Standing: 1000

Removed: Cobalion

Pokemon Online Username:prem, l4tias
Hall of Fame Standing:no
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With:
SD SCEPTILE

sceptile @ Flying Gem / Earth Gem
trait: unburden
evs: completely unknown (idk which speed tier yet)
Adamant
-Swords Dance
-Leaf Blade
-Acrobatics / Dragon Claw
-Earthquake

also subcm latias

@leftovers
252hp / 4 spa / 252 spd timid
-substitute
-calm mind
-roost
-dragon pulse


Current Ladder Standing:none

Pokemon Online Username: Omni266
Hall of Fame Standing: None
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Serperior
Current Ladder Standing: 1040 (at the time of this post)

Pokémon Online Username: MNIx
Hall of Fame Standing: None
Dark Horse Pokémon Currently Working With: Kyurem
Current Ladder Standing: dk, lol

Alright guys, I've decided to be a good project leader now and update the OP. Sorry it took me so long to do; I will procrastinate less in the future. The Registered Users List and the Hall of Fame should now be up to date. As always, if you find something amiss, send me a PM or a VM. Congratulations Lady_Alex for reaching the Hall of Fame! You shared a very exciting team that almost seems like Sun-stall; I highly recommend everyone goes and checks it out.


I'd like to take this opportunity to formally announce that there WILL be another Dark Horse Project next month! It will look very similar in formatting to this one, except with a few significant changes. You can expect to see...

• Who entered the Hall of Fame in BOTH January and February.
  
  
• Freedom of all the Dark Horse Pokemon that have made it into the Hall of Fame.
  
  
• An entirely new OP dedicated to discussion and learning.
  
  
• A slightly more difficult curve of admission into the Hall of Fame.

Let me explain a few things. The Hall of Fame is going to be reset, so all the Pokemon that are currently in it (Toxicroak, Deoxys-D, etc.) will be allowed for entry once again at a 1000 level PO username. However, the February Hall of Fame will have a link back to this month's Hall of Fame to honor those that have taken up the challenge and succeeded. So both sides win, wohoo!

Also, I'd like to take this time to provide some discussion questions. Feel free to answer any of them that you like! Answer whichever one feels applicable to you. You know how the current OP is made up of three sections? In the next topic, there will be a fourth section that is dedicated to learning! I don't want this project to be a simple "beat the ladder" contest. So if you provide an excellent answer to any of these questions, you can bet that I'll be using it in next month's OP! Thank you for all of your time and effort, Dark Horse Project friends.


How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?


How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?


Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?


(For Hall of Fame members only) How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?


(For Non-Hall of Fame members only) What was the most challenging aspect of this project? What did you learn the most from your experience with Dark Horse Pokemon? How has your learning from this project changed the way you battle?



Again, feel free to answer any of these questions! It can be anything from a few sentences to an essay. Sharing your learning and thoughts is an incredibly important part of this project. So get writing and keep on laddering! We've still got a few more days to accept entries into the Hall of Fame. Keep it up!

How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project?: Originally I chose suicune as my dark horse pokemon because I've always really liked it and thought that a calm mind rest talk variant would be really viable in today's metagame with toxic spike support. Initially I had a lot of success with it, but as I got higher up the ladder, I felt that suicune wasn't able to pull its weight for the extensive support that I had to give it. I decided to give up on suicune and start over, picking cresselia, another favorite of mine. I got the idea after seeing Stunt use sun stall against ojama successfully. My team is nearly the same as his, the only difference being a few set choices.


Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why?: For me, it was a lot easier. Cress being such an uncommon pokemon, people either underestimated her or didn't know how to approach her at all

How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon?: Like I said above, the pokemon I used are the same as Stunt's, but I took a different approach to chansey which made a big impact on how my version of his team is played. I found myself having a hard time winning whenever several pokemon of my team got burned from scald or toxiced, so I decided to get rid of toxic on chansey for heal bell. I immediately got a lot more success, though I had to use toxic on cress since I had no room for it on chansey anymore. Toxic on cress was especially useful against tyranitar who felt safe in setting up rocks against cress and politoed who wanted to toxic her.

How did you reach the Hall of Fame?: After making changes to my team and testing it, I just got on my alt and started laddering. It was mostly really easy, because people always underestimated cress, thinking they could safely set up on it, only to lose their dragon or become crippled with toxic. My best advice would be to pick a pokemon who has a truly unique characteristic that makes it shine in today's metagame. I think that if you pick a mediocre pokemon X hoping to use it as a slightly inferior pokemon Y, you won't get very far.

How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?
Aggron is a boss, 'nuff said. I just really wanted to try out Aggron in OU and see how it would fare, its typing and power were particularly intriguing. No real regrets with my selection other than the fact that Aggron was never able to see too much action due to its weaknesses.

How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?
I initially used an extremely original Aggron set and spread that worked fairly well at its job (and is almost a perfect counter to parashuffler D-Nite) but didn't really contribute to the team. I then used Choice Band Aggron, trusting its Steel typing and high defense to carry it through. Ther est of the team worked out simply. Sunny Day Heatran looked extremely effective, especially as I wasn't running weather of my own, Celebi was a natural partner, Tinkerbell being perfect to provide me with Rocks, and Jellicent to complete the defensive core, also spinblocking. Skarmory was then a natural fit, ensuring that I was safeguarded against all weathers and almost all major threats, also providing another hazard and excellent defensive typing to alleviate Aggron. The final member came down to typing, with the resistances still needed a Dragon was the obvious choice, and I still needed a Scarfer as my team was quite slow and I thus turned to Hydreigon for its excellent STABs, good bulk and access to U-Turn.

Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?
As Aggron was typically independent of the team I found it neither harder, not easier to ladder with the team. Aggron achieved a KO nearly every time it hit the fiel, although that wasn't often. The team ended up being extremely weak to Nidoking, and I feel that had Aggron's slot been available for something along the lines of a Scarfed Haxorus that the team would have been much more solid. I should mention that VoltTurn was entirely covered by Tinkerbell, OHKOing the pair with Leaf Storm and HP Fire. I feel that whether it is easier to ladder with a highly used team as opposed to a less common Pokemon comes down to what you as a player feel comfortable with using, and that fits with your playstyle. Tangrowth is considered a Dark Horse Pokemon and yet was used in the Smogon Frontier team of Frontier Brain Bluewind to great effect. it comes down to the player in the end.

(For Non-Hall of Fame members only) What was the most challenging aspect of this project? What did you learn the most from your experience with Dark Horse Pokemon? How has your learning from this project changed the way you battle?

Most challenging was staying motivated. To make it short, I couldn't. i hit a ladder ranking of about 130 and then tilted massive about 10 days into the project and never got motivated to reuse the team. What did I learn? CB Aggron is strong. Really strong. Mind numbingly strong. But also slow and with many weaknesses. This project did not change the way i battle at all, as the team I crafted fit my preferred playstyle, that is to say, balanced.

Ahh, I would love to respond to those questions, but I just can't seem to find the right words to use, and the fact that I built my team with the idea of abusing Sunny Day Heatran rather then Choice Band Metagross doesn't help. However, I will try and get another Dark Horse Pokemon into the Hall Of Fame, and it happens to be another Steel-type :P. I'll give a little hint, and see how will figure out who it is (It shouldn't be that hard to figure out).


Remember, this is a Steel-type Pokemon, so i've just narrowed the list down a whole damn lot.

Durant

How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?
I chose Wobbuffet at first because I was trying to find something that could help me consistently win weather wars. Even as my main OU team completely changed around him, I had no regrets. Simply put, when paired with a Pursuit user he could consistently take out one vital pokemon on my opponent's team, or even two if he was played well. Nothing on my team performed as reliably as Wobb.


How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?
When I figured I wanted to use Wobb, I decided to use a weather team since they benefitted the most from having one pokemon (in this case opposing weather starters) consistently eliminated. I started off with Sun, but eventually changed over to Sand since ScarfTar is such good partner, easily Pursuiting pokemon Wobb can't kill himself. Because Wobbuffet was could reliably take at least one pokemon, I focused a little bit less on defensive synergy since I could easily kill a problematic pokemon; for instance, I had four Water weaknesses but only one resist (Ferrothorn) since I knew I could reliably trap and kill Water types if needed. This freedom in typing let me carry an extra Sand abuser, which was extremely useful after winning a weather war.


Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?
At least for me, it was far easier. Since my Dark Horse pokemon was so uncommon, many people forgot that I carried him. This let me easily revenge pokemon like Scizor locked into Bullet Punch or Terrakion locked into Close Combat. Strangely, it made VolTurn teams much easier to handle, since many smart players would always U-Turn or Volt Switch so they wouldn't risk being trapped by Shadow Tag. This gave my SD Gliscor multiple opportunities to set up against things like a Rotom locked into Volt Switch. All this goes without mentioning how much easier Weather wars were.

(For Non-Hall of Fame members only) What was the most challenging aspect of this project? What did you learn the most from your experience with Dark Horse Pokemon? How has your learning from this project changed the way you battle?
The most challenging aspect for me was being persistent. As far as learning, this reaffirmed for me that unpopular pokemon can be just as lethal as there more common brethren. I'm looking forward to giving Wobbuffet another go next month.

How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?
-I chose Crobat as he has been one of my favourites since he was released in GSC, as well as possessing fantastic speed with decent bulk and attacking potential, and typing that granted 4x resistances to fighting and bug. Lower down the ladder he tended to perform better, as people didn't expect a taunt or a powerful Brave Bird. Later, it became harder to switch him in and he was less effective in general.
-Cradily is a poke I'd used with some success in DPPt. His 376/322/376 defences in Sandstorm, along with access to recover, is quite frankly amazing. Combined with a water immunity, he was almost impossible to break down with unboosted special attacks. Weaknesses to fighting and bug with lack of decent offence meant it could sometimes allow free switchins to 'mons such as Scizor, never a good thing.


How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?
-Obviously with Cradily I needed SS to be up. Cradily itself had SR so I went with a banded Ttar as my weather starter. Scarftran provided a nice special attacking boost as well as acting as a nasty surprise (why do most people leave their Heatran in when I switch mine in on them? WHY?). The last two slots were a bit more up in the air. Volt Switch Forry provided spikes/spin support with the ability to give me some momentum. (Crobat/Forry Volt-turn combo FTW). The final slot started out as SD luke, but went through several changes and I never found a permanent member.


Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?
-Cradily in particular benefitted from being rarely used. I got so many free turns from stuff like Starmie that thought a LO Ice Beam would do something (~20% ). It's also hilarious when Gyara come in, set up 2 DD's and waterfall for no damage while I easily 3HKO with Rock Slide.


(For Non-Hall of Fame members only) What was the most challenging aspect of this project? What did you learn the most from your experience with Dark Horse Pokemon? How has your learning from this project changed the way you battle?
-The most challenging aspect was facing some 'mons this team just wasn't built for. Notable examples include Double-dance Haxorus who just raped my team after a DD+SD, which I had trouble preventing, and Alakazam, although that wasn't too bad as Tran outsped and Cradily was 2HKOd, allowing me to get a hit in.
I did manage to exceed 1300 rating a couple of times, but never managed much higher, both to pokemon mentioned above and just plain being outplayed (and, of course, hax).

I've already started making my team for next month with a new Dark Horse, testing it out on the PO server. Going Ok so far (approaching 1200 ranking) but we'll see how it does higher up/on smogon.

Pokemon Online Username: Tommy Trash (for this purpose anyway)
Hall of Fame Standing: N/A
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Chandelure
Current Ladder Standing: 1000

Gonna be the first to get Chandy in the HoF!!

So I've laddered up to 1465 on my alt "bloo poo" using the Stealth Rock Mamoswine set.

Proof:





Mamoswine (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Endeavor
- Stealth Rock

I plan on using the team more so that's why I'm not gonna post it, but Mamoswine is really anti-metagame right now so you all should go and try it out!

How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?
ok so flying type is so massively powerful in this meta and what are the most powerful flying types? staraptor and honchkrow. also dugtrio is a boss <3 i thought it was ou actually i never thought it was nu. so yeah amazing selection <3

How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?

see: teambuilding post

Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?
its easy because flying is a "dark type" so it's so easy to spam brave bird and then kill everything; the thing about my dark horse pokemon is that even if you know the set you are still fucked because nothing in the world barring skarmory likes switching into cb brave birds.

How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?
it's easy because the ladder is shit but seriously, as long as you can play semi-decently and make sure that your team can counter the majority of threats you should be able to do pretty well. to ladder with them: if you have an offensive team, don't bother going balanced because 99% of the time the dark horse pokemon are way too shitty defensively to attempt balanced.

Pokemon Online Username: Mewcario
Hall of Fame Standing: Not yet
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Dewgong
Current Ladder Standing: 1066

I want to start with Milotic again. When will we start resetting for February?

How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? Milotic is my favorite poke. That's it.

How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? SR/spikers will do. And any offensive oriented pokes to finish off what milo has started


Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? It's less difficult actually 'coz 1) it's fun 2) the surprise factor kills.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4039063#post4039063

Updated my original post on my two other dark horses of choices. For a while, golurk was going to be one of them. But I shall return to him in the future.


How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project?

I chose my three dark horse choices simply because I liked those pokemon and believed that they could make it in OU if you abuse their good points and give them a little bit of support. I believed that Gallade could make it as a great bulky booster due to his great movepool and high special defense. I saw my friend have some games with hydration lapras and wanted to see how far I could go with her. Nidoqueen...just sort of fell into place after that.


How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon?

I'll get back to you on Gallade, as the team he is on currently sucks. For Lapras, I simply looked for pokemon that she lost to and tried to find counters for said pokemon. She has trouble going up against water types like perish song politoed, unaware quagsire. and taunt jellicient, so breloom/virizion made it as allies for her. Leech seed/protect ferrothorn also gives her issues, so breloom/virizion (once again) are needed to help out here. Powerful fighting type pokemon are also an issue for her, which is where nidoqueen comes in to help. Unfortunately, nidoqueen has been taking earthquakes from said fighting type pokemon lately...

Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why?

It depends on the pokemon, really. Against lesser players, I get free turns of cursing with lapras thanks to my opponent switching in a gastrodon or something and then using toxic. Since nobody expects a lapras, certain stall teams do not carry multiple ways to beat her and are defeated once their only taunter falls. Nidoqueen nabs some ohkos against landorus switch ins if I can predict him, and for whatever reason isn't expected to carry the same coverage moves as the more offensive nidoking. Thanks to scald, gallade requires me to weaken every single bulky water pokemon before I attempt to set up with him, which isn't much fun.

How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project?:

Bronzong is and always has been a monster, and an extremely anti-meta Pokemon. I chose Bronzong to prove that it's not just another Tankish steel type that took hits but didn't really do anything, and actually has some offensive presence. I also wanted to show that even after the explosion nerf, Bronzong still deserves some use. I was also really surprised that it had not been taken already; people really don't give it enough credit.

Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why?:

It was way easier laddering with a Dark Horse Pokemon, because people always played cautiously or made careless assumptions about mine. Plus, I've always felt that laddering is easy and one of my stronger points. Winning is a bit harder.

How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon?:

I had no idea whether I wanted to create a full TR team or just an offensive spike-stacking based team, since OTRZong can fit in both variants. I eventually settled for a TR team with a core of Reuniclus and Conkeldurr after being demolished by a CB Conkeldurr. The rest kinda just fell into place; Salamence being the odd one out, as I needed a potent and unexpected Scarfer, and Starmie to help Salamence's Stealth Rock weakness.

How did you reach the Hall of Fame?:

"There is nothing to laddering. All you do is sit down at a computer and bleed."