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Replace your Vaporeon with a decent support Pokemon like Musharna/Beeheeyem with Telepathy. Immune to friendly fire and can dish out status or protect your team.
Also, Mixed Toxicroak with an Absorb Bulb is an option though Black Sludge/Life Orb and pure physical sets may be more your thing.
Toxicroak would have to have anticipation though because I don't think absorb bulb can be activated through dry skin (that was the case with storm drain when I tested it so I assume it works the same).
It’s troubling to hear the old masters of tower/subway getting worn down, but I guess it’ll make it all the better when you find that undefeatable team.
Ashez Said
Team:
Hippowdon@ focus sash
impish
252hp/252spd/4d
yawn
stealth rock
slack off
sand attack
It might be a bit of a cliché, but Outrage with Lum seems to be pretty effective (Although you’d need HGSS I believe). I find at least half the time the lum gets used up for things like a random burn or switching in on a swagger or something.
I’d give it a try and see if you really need the yache, after all it only reduces Ice to a 2x which can still KO Chomp.
I guess with the yawn support you’d want to set up really quickly, maybe even a shell smash? Omastar doesn’t take Sandstorm damage but all the grass weaknesses could be a problem.
I used Politoed/Toxicroak/Ludicolo/Latios to get to 163. The basic premise of that team was to just spam Surf. I lost on my own misplay so the team itself I felt was pretty solid. Ice/Hail teams could still give it some issues but overall that was manageable. I was going to post a bit more about the team when I achieved a better record but R Inanimate pretty much killed any ambition I had for doubles subway.
I've been waiting until I found a truly successful team to post any streaks, and I'm really happy with the way my current team is functioning. I'm currently at 140 in Super Doubles and still climbing (hopefully for a long time to come).
The current team:
Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Crunch
- Aerial Ace
- Rock Slide
- Fire Punch
Heatran (M) @ Chople Berry
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SAtk / 128 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
The strategy is pretty simple. BandTar and LO Latios pretty much OHKO A LOT of things and cover each others weaknesses nicely. From there I wanted to see what I could do to eliminate two of the biggest threats in Super Doubles (imo), Trick Room and Hail.
Cacturne is my failsafe Trick Room counter, as well as just being awesome sitting comfortable behind his sub with auto +2 evasion. Adamant stab Sucker Punch hits a lot of things pretty hard and having a grass stab is pretty cool as well, as I usually can't find a good way to work them in to a team.
Heatran is my Hail counter, taking nothing from Ice moves and destroying Ice types in return. I've used a lot of different items on him from Lefties to QC and most recently Chople (because of the musketeers being so frequent up here and my team being severely weak to fighting).
So that's the team, and having said that, my biggest concern is that my massive fighting weakness will do me in eventually. Latios Psychic OHKO's every fighting type that I've come across, but if Latios is dead I really don't have an answer, and relying on Cacturne and Sand Veil alone to Seed Bomb through fighting types is not very comforting (not to mention nearly impossible if it's a Virizion on the other side..drain punch doesn't do enough at all..).
Anyways that's my team and streak thus far. I've been playing all day and I'm taking a break for the night so that I don't misplay due to being tired. And yes, my Ttar has Aerial Ace just for the snow cloak bitches.
Yeah i did think about using outrage n lum but i like the flexability dragon claw gives, i do have a outrage chomp somewhere so might try it out. I forgot to mention on previous members that i tryed shell smash oma and it felt to weak thats why i switched to garchomp. First play was excadrill n oma lol. I didnt want to use chomp but in the end i had to lol.
having a streak or two in doubles atm then i think il go back to singles.
Umbreon my fav poke of all time anyone got any good ideas on how to use one in the subway? Was concidering yawn n stat lowerer (flash,charm,snarl etc) or maybe a curser but would need to run dig i guess cause that new dark attact rise ability thing, unsure but really wana do well with the puppy haaa
Talking about.favorites same goes for arcanine? Gutted he didnt get drought :(
having a streak or two in doubles atm then i think il go back to singles.
Umbreon my fav poke of all time anyone got any good ideas on how to use one in the subway? Was concidering yawn n stat lowerer (flash,charm,snarl etc) or maybe a curser but would need to run dig i guess cause that new dark attact rise ability thing, unsure but really wana do well with the puppy haaa
Talking about.favorites same goes for arcanine? Gutted he didnt get drought :(
I don't think Justified growlithe is released yet, and Arcanine not resisting dark type doesn't really help much either (though +4 Extremespeed would be interesting). Maybe I'm just inexperienced with Arcanine, but I can really only see Arcanine running Choice Band or physically based mixed LO set with Overheat (Probably something like Overheat, Extremespeed, Close Combat, Crunch/Wild Charge/Coverage Move).
EDIT: Oooo nevermind... I just never saw one haha.
For Umbreon, Snarl is not currently legal yet since the Snarl TM is not available yet and Eevee cannot learn it as an egg move (through Zoroark breeding chain). So as for stat lowering, your best bet might be Yawn, Charm, Flash, Taunt/Torment/Confuse Ray/Wish/Moonlight.
I thought I read that Baton Passing Mean Look no longer works anyway.
Speaking of Beat Up Justified,
@Peterko: I noticed that you have the Beat Up TerraCott combo in your list of obtained pokemon. Have you tried that out in subway yet (probably with Wide Lens for Rock Slide or something like that)?
1. Justified Growlithe is released, I think it was from the start. I already have it, although I´ve only bred a Close Combat Intimidate one.
Talking about the Dream World, I only managed to get a female Poliwag a few days ago after countless tries, which was the reason I had no chance to use a rain team. I learned a few weeks ago that to get females more often, I would have to get the lowest score possible. This way, I´ve had a much higher success rate.
2. Heh, I wondered if anyone would take a look at my roster :p (the first 6 were actually my VGC team) and yes I did try it (terracott) and I think I posted a bit about it...something like Rock Slide missing as soon as in the 4th battle or so lol...rock slide is really really bad :( plus Terra doesn´t live long enough to be overpowered...from my exp. even +4 rock slide wasn´t OHKOing anything nameworthy
Rock Slide in doubles is just 56 base power, even tripled it doesn´t do enough damage (I felt), but I might be wrong because I only did two streaks (slapped darm/haxo in the back IIRC) and maybe those weren´t proper tries.
3. Back to Arcanine, maybe I´ll try it, as it´s my favourite Pokémon. Unless I use uber physical attackers in the back, a Beat Up from 0 IV Whimsicott shouldn´t do that much damage.
research thread said:
Beat Up's new damage formula uses the Attack of each attacker and Defense of the target, but its BP for each hit = 5 + (Base Attack of Attacker / 10). However, if the user's Attack is boosted through the use of an ability, move or item, all Beat Up hits will be boosted
Hmm, so Whimsicott´s Beat Up has 11 base power and with 64 attack it does 4-5 damage to Arc, Arcanine itself would do 8-10 damage...well I´d just slap a Sitrus Berry on it and it would hopefully recover the health after Flare Blitz.
Speaking of (un)released Pokémon, I´d like to try Follow Me Justified Luca with partner Latios in the future.
On an unrelated note, I´m breeding Shellos in SoulSilver right now and bred a LRod Cubone two hours ago, I want to try them out in the Subway in the next few days.
Hmm, now that I think about it, I should try Whimsicott as Ninetales´ partner, it´s fast as hell by itself plus priority charm the sliders/quakers and set up sun against ice/sand workers without having to switch.
...oh and the Venu C-Gear skin is the most amazing thing to look at in the game
rotom-w @choice scarf
modest 4hp 252special attack 252speed
-volt switch
-hydro pump (hasnt missed for me yet)
-hp ice
-trick
very nice team as the AIs dont switch.
only problem are hard hitting fighting types. is gengar good? but it has fail miss. (focus blast) suggestions are welcome.
rotom-w @choice scarf
modest 4hp 252special attack 252speed
-volt switch
-hydro pump (hasnt missed for me yet)
-hp ice
-trick
very nice team as the AIs dont switch.
only problem are hard hitting fighting types. is gengar good? but it has fail miss. (focus blast) suggestions are welcome.
Try bulky reuniclus with calm mind, psyshock(not psychic), shadow ball, Focus blast. Put 252 EVs into HP, 252 into SAtk, 6 SDef with a modest nature. That should solve your fighting problem while maintaing the synergy of the team. Give it leftovers for maximising longevity. Good luck!!!
The lead combo is Politoed and Toxicroak with the basic doubles premise of flinch something and do spread damage. Politoed can actually do some work in rain and the attack support from Toxicroak lead to a lot of single handed sweeps with these two. Sitrus Berry turns plenty of 2HKOs into 3HKOs so it's well worth it IMO.. staying power and being able to switch out and back in again is pretty important. Plus I liked having the flexibility to change attacks. The Hidden Power, if you didn't click the link, is Grass.. the IVs were completely accidental when I was RNGing Poliwags but the stats were "good enough" so I kept it at the time. I needed a filler move and well, haven't looked back since. HP Grass wasn't used often but it was nice to hit certain water Pokemon a bit harder without having to necessarily switch out. Sash on Toxicroak is vital for those first turns where both pokemon are a threat and you can only Fake Out one... Croak usually acts as a pseudo Follow Me turn 2 in those situations and by turn 3 can finish something off, if Politoed hasn't already, with Sucker Punch. In addition, and this probably goes without saying, Rain + Drain Punch + Surf can usually make it easy for Toxicroak to tank a OHKO through Sash and restore its health completely in as little as 2 turns.
LudicoloLum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 6HP/4Def/252SpAtk/4SpD/244Spe
Nature: Timid
~ Fake Out
~ Surf
~ Giga Drain
~ Ice Beam
For the back half of the team, I wanted something with Swift Swim and something that could abuse Thunder. I started with Kingdra and Thundurus but quickly realized that being able to eat water attacks (friend or foe) was important on this team. Thundurus is was too frail for that so it was gone. In came Latios, next best candidate, and 2 Dragons wasn't gonna fly so I swapped in Ludicolo as the Swift Swim abuser. Turns out both these pokemon fit beautifully with the leads. Both are bulky enough to switch into attacks they resist without too much concern (Latios especially covers things that hurt the leads), both can handle water attacks and both can usually attack first.. and hard. Having a secondary Fake Out pokemon can come in pretty handy and I chose Giga Drain for the rare healing opportunities. Protect on Latios is necessary for times I want to Surf but don't want to take additional damage as well as for those pesky Sucker Punchers. Not too much else to say.. pretty basic. Lum Berry because paralysis sucks. A lot.
Main issues for this team, like I stated earlier, were Hail/Ice teams because of freezes and weather change.. this team likes Rain and prefers to function in it... and Trick Room teams. TR is stallable, hence all the Protects, but certain pokemon can cause real challenges. Normally, I would try to Fake Out and double target any TR threats and KO them before they use the move. Best you can do if TR gets set up is to work around it and stall it out. Sand teams can also be pesky but thanks to all the water/fighting/ice attacks they're much easier to handle. I also hated bug types due to the weakness on the back end. Manageable but annoying... especially that damn Defend Order Vespiqueen.
I forgot how I actually lost for this streak but if I remember right it was because I misplayed, didn't attack properly and ended up on the wrong end of a 1 on 1 with Latios and Ice Shard Mamoswine in Hail.
@bluemon: If you are using Mienshao for Single (which I'm pretty sure you are), you shouldn't even risk using rock slide missing I don't think, especially on Mienshao which can't really take a hit. The 2nd moveset with wide lens is probably the only one that's acceptable, with both hi jump kick and rockslide at 99% accuracy. Just my opinion.
Psyshock + HP Fighting is also completely walled by Spiritomb, so you might want to try HP Bug instead (if you don't mind hitting steels for nve).
Hmmm.. from what i have noticed, hydro pump and stone edge NEVER missed on me. AND all these pokes are living with like 10 percent health from hi jump kick...
Downloadable Spreadsheets - Subway Pokemon information in Excel/Numbers for Windows/Mac, downloadable in a ZIP folder.
I don't know how useful some of this is with the tons of other information out there; I made it to try and make playing a bit easier for me with the full stats and so on, so it might help somebody else! The PDFs aren't exactly short, but if you do back-to-back printing then it's not too bad. If people find some of it useful then I might polish it up a bit and make it a bit nicer, perhaps add some other stuff.
...
Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf ** Sebastian
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252HP / 4Def / 252Spe
Nature: Timid
~ Trick
~ Thunder Wave
~ Flash
~ Reflect
Sebastian has the tools to lead from the front, being able to set up win situations. Outclassed by other Trick users in terms of defensive stats, Rotom-H more than makes up for it with its unique typing. Rotom-H is the only Trick/Switcheroo user to resist Fire, Electric, and Ice. All others are either neutral to all three types or resistant to two and weak to one, the exceptions being Heatproof Bronzong, Thick Fat Grumpig, Rotom, Rotom-W, and Manectric (but none importantly take all three for NVE). By reducing the usage of Electric/Ice/Fire moves, the threat of getting paralyzed, frozen, or burnt is also reduced. That alone should be a great testament to Rotom-H's typing, without considering its other resistances and rather exploitable weaknesses.
In actuality, developing the final product of this team was not quite that simple. Having chosen Bronzong for the team first, I had narrowed it down to the Fire-resistant Rotom-H and Rotom-W, but did not decide between the two until after I had chosen Salamence. I felt as though Rotom-h's extra Electric resistance would allow me to get away without a resistance elsewhere, as I could generally either Trick the opponent into a non-Electric move or get time to use Thunder Wave/Flash.
The moveset is pretty simple and standard really. Trick the opponent, either switch out and set up or use my other moves to help aid the set up down the line. Max Speed with Timid allows Rotom-h to beat Pinsir4 by one point. I tried Pain Split over Reflect first, but didn't find it very helpful so I swapped it with Reflect pretty early on. Reflect has been more useful in terms of allowing me to pull a couple of games out of nowhere by bolstering the team's defensive side for a few turns, allowing Bronzong and Salamence to have some vital set up time.
Bronzong @ Leftovers ** Jenson
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 244HP / 52Def / 52SpA / 132SpD / 28Spe
Nature: Calm
~ Iron Defense
~ Calm Mind
~ Substitute
~ Flash Cannon
Jenson may be slower but is also a very reliable choice, something which quickly became evident over a few games. Bronzong is "the other Steel-type", masked by its lack of legendary status. It was the first Pokemon I picked for the team. I knew that I wanted something different, but I also knew that I didn't want to use something that is completely outclassed for that same reason. These were the two main (and rather obvious) reasons for picking Bronzong over Registeel:
Immunity to Ground-type moves - This is primarily useful against Pokemon that the opponent switches in after Trick. With Levitate I have three Ground immunes and therefore Levitate may seem a bit pointless, but I believed that it would help me take on Pokemon that use the popular "QuakeEdge" combination much better. I wouldn't have to fear critical hits from them once set up (or when I am setting up) because they would not be able to do enough damage to faint Bronzong anyway, which means that Bronzong can secure victory regardless.
Lack of Speed reducing move - Unlike Registeel with Curse, Bronzong's Speed is not lowered through the use of any of its moves. This means that I can avoid situations where my Pokemon would be naked without a Substitute on the turn the opposing Pokemon then outspeeds. For example, if Registeel is facing a slower Pokemon, it may Substitute turn1 and then Curse turn2 whilst the Sub is broken; suddenly it's slower due to Curse, and therefore susceptible to a CH or OHKO move.
There were a couple of other small reasons (eg. flinch of Iron Head vs. SpD drop of Flash Cannon), but of course I don't have any experience of actually using Registeel so a lot of this was pure theorymon, but I felt comfortable with this idea so ran with it.
The EV spread is orientated towards Special Defense because of how Bronzong can boost its Defense a lot quicker. It is also designed to lean towards the special side to allow Bronzong to take Ice Beam and Blizzard attacks a bit better. 28 Speed EVs allow Bronzong to outspeed a paralyzed Pinsir4.
Salamence (F) @ Lum Berry ** Fernando
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 244HP / 116Atk / 4Def / 68SpD / 76Spe
Nature: Adamant
~ Dragon Dance
~ Roost
~ Substitute
~ Outrage
Fernando doesn't care of the situation; he has a desire to win and will often muscle his way through regardless. The team kind of suddenly came together when I decided on Salamence, as it knocked on to me choosing Rotom-H over Rotom-W. The balance between Salamence's power and bulk is truly incredible, both naturally and through the EV spread. Full props to Jibaku for the latter, I actually started out running the exact set he had (with Earthquake over Roost), but I quickly made the decision to swap it to what I have now.
I really like Roost, it really makes the set work. In only a few scenarios have I really felt that I wanted Earthquake. I find that Roost is so much better in general that the few scenarios where I miss Earthquake aren't common enough to warrant its use. I mostly hate not having Earthquake when I face a Defiant Bisharp that switches in after the Trick, but normally I manage to muddle by. Roost helps with the set up against Tricked Water-types, and to be honest it just makes it much easier to use as I don't have to rely on Thunder Wave/Flash quite so much. Roost is also useful for setting up by after PP stalling against 5PP moves. For example, if I only have Salamence left against a crippled Pokemon with Blizzard/Surf or whatever, I can keep Subbing and go for the miss/paralyze. One miss will allow me to Roost, and suddenly the Pokemon doesn't have enough PP to KO Salamence, so I can just use Roost on the NVE Surf and set up.
Salamence covers Bronzong's weaknesses (and vice versa) which is now pretty common to hear now, but it really does help to get me out of tight situations, especially with Intimidate. I use Salamence over Multiscale Dragonite for Intimidate, which is useful for when I juggle between Pokemon to secure wins. Otherwise, I would use Dragonite.
The defensive rating listed is the that of the last Pokemon that fits the criteria. For example, +5 Salamence has a percentage chance of OHKOing everything up to and including Metagross2 (def. rating 56.76, but it resists), although it "actually" has a chance against anything with a rating of 58.92 (assuming it resists still). However, because there are no Pokemon between 56.76 and 58.92 that resist the move, the lower threshold of 56.76 is used.
+6:
100% OHKO on everything with a defensive rating of 113.52 or less (56.76 if 0.5x resist) [up to and inc. Metagross2]
>0% OHKO on everything with a defensive rating of 134.90 or less (67.45 if 0.5x resist) [up to and inc. Cobalion2]
+5
100% OHKO on everything with a defensive rating of 99.66 or less (49.83 if 0.5x resist) [up to and inc. Escavalier1-4]
>0% OHKO on everything with a defensive rating of 113.52 or less (56.76 if 0.5x resist) [up to and inc. Metagross2]
+4
100% OHKO on everything with a defensive rating of 85.32 or less (42.66 if 0.5x resist) [up to and inc. Suicune1,3]
>0% OHKO on everything with a defensive rating of 100.90 or less (50.45 if 0.5x resist) [up to and inc. Rhyperior3]
+3
100% OHKO on everything with a defensive rating of 71.51 or less (35.755 if 0.5x resist) [up to and inc. Shuckle1]
>0% OHKO on everything with a defensive rating of 82.10 or less (41.05 if 0.5x resist) [up to and inc. Klinklang3,4]
+2
100% OHKO on everything with a defensive rating of 57.15 or less (28.575 if 0.5x resist) [up to and inc. Tangrowth2]
>0% OHKO on everything with a defensive rating of 67.45 or less (33.725 if 0.5x resist) [up to and inc. Conkeldurr1]
+1
100% OHKO on everything with a defensive rating of 42.77 or less (21.385 if 0.5x resist) [up to and inc. Samurott1]
>0% OHKO on everything with a defensive rating of 50.42 or less (25.21 if 0.5x resist) [up to and inc. Mamoswine2]
+0
100% OHKO on everything with a defensive rating of 28.72 or less (14.36 if 0.5x resist) [up to and inc. Archeops1,3,4]
>0% OHKO on everything with a defensive rating of 33.77 or less (16.885 if 0.5x resist) [up to and inc. Charizard2]
...
I haven't really had many close calls to be honest. If I have a close call, it tends to be a really close call... more to do with the team nature, though. I've pretty much "learnt" to be careful of Electrics (especially those with Thunder) and the strong Dark Pulse users. A few other things have been "annoying", but nothing that has broken straight through me with ease yet.
Anyway here's proof of my streak so far:
168 and still going, I just wanted to post because I want to theorymon and get some teams before I start uni where I won't have DS WiFi access. I didn't want to leave it and forget everything I meant to write. I am still going to continue with the streak until I lose though, and use other teams after that. I'm looking forwards to running some more offensive teams though, and maybe trying my hand at Doubles again, though I don't really just want to use my VGC team. All that said, this streak has been amazing fun, but a little tiring.
So yeah, I'm not sure what I have more of after this streak: love of the Subway and a real desire to stop playing OU, or a newfound admiration for anybody who has had the patience to do more than one streak with a Trick team..
