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Black & White Battle Subway Records

Using the team I mentioned earlier, I lost at Battle #136 against a Seed/Protect/Stockpile/EQ Torterra due to a "well-timed" Blazed Heat Wave miss and Extrasensory flinch on Latios from Scarf Typhlosion.
 
CLT Streak

Hello, been a long time reader of the forums and enjoy the record keeping and war stories about battle subway

just ended my longest streak in the Super Double Subway at 79, next closest streak was 44, tried several fighting types but first time i used ape, got to 79 so guess he was the missing link....anyway here is the team

Metagross
Adamant / Clear Body
EVs: 252 At/210 Speed/48 HP
LvL 50 Stats: 161/205/150/100/110/116
Item: Steel Gem
Bullet Punch
Meteor Mash
Zen Headbutt
Earthquake

Eelektross
Modest / Levitate
EVs: 252 SpAt/125 Def/125 SpDef/8 Spd
LvL 50 Stats: 157/115/114/172/113/67
Item: Expert Belt
ThunderBolt
Flamethrower
Grass Knot
Hidden Power Ice

Infernape
Jolly / Blaze
EVs: 252 At/Spe 6 HP
LvL 50 Stats: 152/156/91/110/91/176
Item: Air Balloon
Stone Edge
Flare Blitz
Mach Punch
Close Combat

Latios
Timid / Levitate
EVs: 252 SpAt/252Spd/6 HP
LvL 50 Stats: 156/90/97/182/130/178
Item: Life Orb
Recover
Dragon Pulse
Thunderbolt
Psychic

Lost to a Archeops-Hydreigon-Lapras-Mandibuzz
had lapras survive a close combat
ended up being 2-1 lapras-Mandibuzz against latios
Mandibuzz used flatter on latios and if i didnt get confuse hax, T-Bolt would of took out Lapras and might of won but w/e....glad i got the trophy and got far

Note: I found the EV spreed on Eelectross on PK Online, used it there and it worked fairly well so tried it in the subway...prolly could be better but w/e (all evs based on lvl 100)

Will upload proof later...
 
I'm getting so tired of hax. Run 1: Lose at 85 to Draco Meteor miss. Run 2: Lose at 88 to Rock Slide flinch

This is such bullshit and it's really starting to wear on me

Either way, that Eelektross EV distribution really isn't good, you should invest in HP not individual defenses
 
If you wanted Eelektross to have better survivability, 252 HP would probably benefit him much more than split defenses. Even with the investment they still aren't that great.


@Zacchaeus
Unfortunately when dealing with any move less than 100% accuracy over so many uses, it's practically guaranteed to go wrong at some point. I mean consider theoretically you played 100 games, and used it once per game...on average it should miss in 10 games, and most likely it will miss more than that. It's a pretty substantial chance over sooooo many games. I know you aren't stupid and you're obviously aware of this, just offering a little outside perspective.

The Rock Slide flinch is also pretty bad in here. It's generally one of the moves I lose to hax on the most.
 
CLT

Will try out 252 HP, i figured there was alot better bulky spred for eelectross

im going to try out zapdos in that spot, anybody got a good special set for zapdos?
 
The super subway IS evil: on the 6th battle my badly constructed team of Swellow/Haxorus/Hydreigon met a Skarmory who took fiddlesticks from Facade, evaded 2 Fire Blasts in a row, and finished it off when a Froslass proceeded to outspeed and Ice Beam all my Pokemon to death(oh the irony)
 
I got chopped in half...

#185 vs member of the best subway trainer duo, Biker Philipo:

lee + latias vs dragonite + haxorus

1. lee fake out haxo, lati dragon pulse OHKO nite, haxo flinched
- foe´s garchomp in

2. garchomp used outrage, latios fainted, haxorus used chop, chop, lee fainted (first time ever sash was useless)
- me hydra + meta in

3. hydra protect, chomp outrage on hydra, protected, haxo dual chop on hydra, protected, meta iron head 60% to chomp, chomp confused

4. chomp outrage through confusion, hydra fainted, haxo dual chop on meta 135/166, meta iron head, chomp fainted
- foe´s gyarados in, gg

5. haxo quaked meta 51/166, gyara used waterfall, metagross fainted

0-2

you know the subway has decided to end your streak when you miss 3 hits in a row against incense walrein from ganymed (thankfully, it only hit 1/3 vs sashlee), but you somehow still pull of a win, thinking, well, I need to win the next 5 battles to complete this set of 7 somehow and then make a break...the next battle was the above #185

I honestly don´t know what I could´ve done to win this, when garchomp decided to win 4 coin flips in a row (outrage correct target, outrage correct target, outrage correct target through confusion)...also lol dual chop really got me there as I thought lee would at least get in a 60-71% CC on chomp...

also fluffy probably wouldn´t have lost this one if only because he has ice punch on meta and ape is faster than haxo...
 
skitz0phrenic said:
@Zacchaeus
Unfortunately when dealing with any move less than 100% accuracy over so many uses, it's practically guaranteed to go wrong at some point. I mean consider theoretically you played 100 games, and used it once per game...on average it should miss in 10 games, and most likely it will miss more than that. It's a pretty substantial chance over sooooo many games. I know you aren't stupid and you're obviously aware of this, just offering a little outside perspective.

The Rock Slide flinch is also pretty bad in here. It's generally one of the moves I lose to hax on the most.
Click to expand...

Well I just lost on battle 20 to another Draco Meteor miss and I lost on battle 5 to Rock Slide flinch hax. I'm aware that things can go poorly, but right now Draco Meteor is probably at about 80% accuracy and Rock Slide flinch is at somewhere around 35%. If I never get back to 132 or at least close I'll be pissed

CLT2244 said:
im going to try out zapdos in that spot, anybody got a good special set for zapdos?
Click to expand...

Thunderbolt and Heat Wave work very well together, and Air Cutter is its best special Flying STAB. If you wanted to use Lightningrod you would have to give up Air Cutter, Heat Wave, Signal Beam, Mud Slap, Twister, and Extrasensory, which you can't afford to do so just stick with Pressure
 
Using this gimmick in the Battle Subway. I have a knack for gimmicks, so...
[PIMG]547[/PIMG]
Whimsicott @ Eject Button
Calm|Prankster
252 HP/40 Def/216 SpD
Tailwind
Leech Seed
Protect
Substitute

Set up Tailwind, get hit, activate Eject Button. If it goes differently, the rest of the set explains itself. I'm thinking of replacing Protect for Taunt, so I don't waste any Tailwind turns I currently have.

[PIMG]235[/PIMG]
Smeargle @ Lum Berry
Jolly|Moody
252 HP/252 Spd/6 Def
Spore
Substitute
Baton Pass
Minimize

Spore under Tailwind, and Minimize the following turn. Use Substitute just in case, and keep going until it is decided it is enough. Then Baton Pass.

[PIMG]282[/PIMG]
Gardevoir @ Focus Sash
Timid
252 SpA/252 Spd/6 HP
Calm Mind
Stored Power
Focus Blast
Shadow Ball

Get a Substitute passed to Gardevoir, and set up with Calm Mind. Stored Power is for the Minimize boosts, and all the Moody boosts, to at this point Stored Power has a lot of BP. Focus Blast and Shadow Ball is for coverage.

(Currently, I'm at streak 7, lol)
 
Aura, have you considered a White Herb on Gardevoir to get rid of the Moody stat-drops? Also, I couldn't stand doing long set-up strategies like that.. the Subway takes long enough while just using heavy offense.
 
Virizion said:
Aura, have you considered a White Herb on Gardevoir to get rid of the Moody stat-drops? Also, I couldn't stand doing long set-up strategies like that.. the Subway takes long enough while just using heavy offense.
Click to expand...

Hmm...to be honest, I don't know why I never considered a White Herb on Gardevoir.

I like these long-term strategies because it's fun to play around with the AI.
 
I am a train. I will just run on the tracks.




Actually, I'm kind of stuck en route here. The good kind of stuck, I suppose, like when you have two girls fighting over you or you don't know which job offer to take and which to politely decline. I guess as far as I'm concerned because if one dumps me or I take one job and it turns out I don't like it, I can always go crawling back to the other, which will accept me readily after enough crawling.

This is what I'm talking about:

Whimsicott (M) @Focus Sash ** ♣
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4HP/252Def/252SpD
Nature: Careful
~ Taunt
~ Charm
~ Worry Seed
~ Memento

Drapion (M) @ Black Sludge ** DRAPULA
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252HP/56Def/196SpD/4Spe
Nature: Careful
~ Crunch
~ Acupressure
~ Substitute
~ Rest

Latias (F) @ Choice Scarf ** Dr. Paula
EVs: 252HP/172Def/84Spe
Nature: Timid
~ Trick
~ Thunderwave
~ Charm
~ Flash

Team Drapula II with Garchomp was great, but in Gen IV has its flaws. As Peterko pointed out, Garchomp doesn't own the Subway like it did the Tower, since speed is so much more important in the tower. When I was using TDII to see if it was good enough to deal with the Trick nerf, I had some success but managed to lose a completely-setup-Garchomp to two different Legendary teams. While they were rather isolated incidents in hindsight, both times were to Musketeer-Musketeer, and nine of 12 are faster than Garchomp. That wouldnt be so bad if the Musketeers weren't seemingly created as counter-Pokémon to Drapion:


  • All three resist Crunch, Cobalion with a quad resist
  • Enough of them have set-up moves to bother Drapion
  • 11 of 12 outspeed Drapion (relatively minor but not guaranteed, as besides Cobalion 2 the other two that don't outpace Chomp sit at 128 speed to Drapion's 116)
  • Justified boosts Attack
  • Sacred Swords negates Defense and Evasion boosts


So yeah, those two escapades were enough to let me want to try Whimsicott, as I'd mentioned I wanted to last year when "Erufuun" and "Mischievous Heart" were first revealed. I was actually able to win one of those battles, since the Virizion that cleaned up the suddenly Subless, 65% Garchomp with a CH Leaf Blade after Terrakion CCed Chomp's sub away was not the SD or Taunt variants that would have destroyed the last-poke Drapion (Jolly Sacred Sword does under 37.5%, you do the math). But that was enough to tell me I could go back to the drawing board in search of the "best team".

Yes, "could go back". More often than not, theorymonning is a hell of a lot more fun than playing, especially in my case having used TDII for serious Tower-Frontier-Subway battles for thousands of battles in a row. I didn't see it as a knock on my team—I gladly used my cherished SSS (CCC) team from Emerald (CB Sala/CM Cune/Curselax) in Pearl, suspecting it wouldn't in Gen IV be the powerhouse it was in the generation prior, and this was the same deal. The one thing that stopped me from going with my "probable BW BS team" was the fact that having two pokes weak to ground when Workers who specialize in Ground can't be paralyzed and are very prone to using setup moves that will prompt a switch to other pokes that can't be paralyzed.

But I knew Whimsicott had a ton of potential, and so I enjoyed theorymonning (then RNGing, which is somewhat less enjoyable but still fun when you get what you want) for weeks until I arrived at what I felt is the perfect team. I believe I have, so allow me to explain.

Taunt. I've been raving about this move since 2004, when it was certainly on whatever moveset my Skarmory had. I wish it were still 3-5 turns as it was last Gen, but it's better than the two turns it was in Adv so oh well. So in my experiences in the Subway leading with Mesprit, and seeing just how many fucking idiots led with Curse or Hail or Dragon Dance or Toxic or whatever dumb shit that would prompt a switch (and not always the next turn, as has been mentioned earlier in this thread), I wanted to Taunt said idiots so bad and make them hit me if they were just gonna pussy out and switch. Even now with tricking into Electric move and switching in Garchomp, as Chinese Dood pointed out. It obviously isn't the end of the world to lead with a Trickscarf Poke, as evidenced by Peterko, but Whimsicott's ability was just begging for a workout.

So I figured: why not actually go with a one-attack team? I'm operating under the "assumption" that Drapion got worlds better from Gen IV. Basically the single most important thing it wanted was the ability to use Acupressure behind its Sub—I wouldn't even have wanted 60 more base points in HP to work with instead of that un-nerfing. Only something weird like a typing change would pique my interest instead of the Sub-Acu un-nerfing, and even then we have to keep in mind that in BW there are now only seven types that hit everything with no immunities: Dark, Ice, Dragon, Rock, Flying, Bug and Steel. So I wouldn't even necessarily want something like a Water/Ground Drapion with the same base stats and the Gen IV Acu-Sub nerf even if Water Absorbers could probably be worked around (I would try something like Cross Poison if I were feeling adventurous but Drapion doesn't get stronger Physical STAB than Crunch). The way it is now, I had confidence that Drapion could handle everything, with the proper support. It can beat the feared Musketeers when it's set up, it can outstall Scrafty and luckyass Barrier/Rest Glaceon if it has to and have the PP to beat a third poke, and it can finally pad its own stats if the first poke dies after only about 10 Acupressures. And hell, if down 1-3, Whirlwind Skarmory can't even do anything (not that Drapion can actually lose to that anyway).

So I explored the option of a non-lead Trick poke. Latias won out because after much research, those four moves (Trick/TW/Charm/Flash) were the most important, given what I felt were Whimsicott's most important moves. Yes, Whimsicott gets Switcheroo and the 100% accurate Cotton Spore, and Lati@s learns interesting stuff like Mirror Type and Wish and Memento (Latios) to take the stead of Trick/TW if necessary, but the way I have it set up now seems to be best. Here is how most battles go:

1. AI sends out something stupid
2. Whimsicott tells it to fuck off with priority Taunt
3. Stupid foe pokemon can't use dumb status move after the Taunt
4. Whimsicott used Memento, Foe's Atk/SpA drop -2 each
5. Latias comes in, uses Trick
6. Foe is forced to poke the fuck up (where "poke" is equivalent to "man") and use an attacking move
7. Taunt wears off but it's too late
8. Latias plays the recently maligned "cripple-things-for-one-teammate-to-sweep" role till she gets bored or faints (from boredom, yeah, lol)
9. Drapula uses win without giving a shit about anything

You can hopefully see how effective this can be, particularly Drapion itself...especially Zacchaeus, lol, who I am pretty sure I have used Drapion more than! Drapion itself is worlds better than it was in Gen IV, if you think otherwise "you're using it wrong".

The biggest issue is how. fucking. boring this is to use...for me anyway. I mean especially from my perspective, please think about it: by the time I get to Step 6, the vast majority of the time I, with my humbly admitted fuckton of experience with trick teams and the Tower/Frontier/Subway, know the battle is over. Over. Like, hey SPIT Starmie (Starmie 4, Surf/Psy/IB/TB), I know you are awesome and I love you to death forever, but if I know it's you leading, the battle is 100% over the second I see you, because I InstaMemento, paralyze you with Latias, and tap somewhere in the upper-right-hand corner of my touch screen to both send out Drapion and spam Acupressure, knowing that the best you can do with -2 Timid Surf is 22%. Yet I have to spend a good six minutes extra "proving" that, 8-10 if I'm driving, and it's the biggest rolleyes ever. It's not like if one of you had come up with this and could experience the refreshing reward of having your idea amaze you and play out to wild, "kind-of-imaginable-especially-after-jump's-posts-about-drapion-but still semi-unimaginable" success.

So somewhere in the midst of playing out another battle I knew I'd secured a good two minutes prior, I started to wonder: where is my gen V StarTarChomp (SPIT Star/DD Lum Tyra/ScarfChomp)? Is there really no speed team that is fast and good enough to compromise with the better Team Drapula III? As you guys may have guessed, I have somewhat less time to play than I once did, so the prospect of dragging myself through 10-minute battles was not that appealing to me. So I theorymonned long and hard about what that team could be. I tried quite a few things before finally coming up with this:

Latios (M) @Life Orb ** unban me
EVs: 4HP/252SpA/252Spe
Nature: Timid
~ Dragon Pulse
~ Psyshock
~ Ice Beam
~ Thunderbolt

Suicune @Leftovers ** Holy Water
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252HP/252Def/4Spe
Nature: Bold
~ Scald
~ Icy Wind
~ Calm Mind
~ Rest

Terrakion @Wide Lens ** Prudential
EVs: 4HP/25Atk/252Spe
Nature: Jolly
~ Close Combat
~ Rock Slide
~ Substitute
~ Swords Dance



You are a station where I don't stop. I will just pass you by.



This team is faster than a speeding bullet train, more powerful than a locomotive, and, I believe, able to leap tall records in a single unbeaten bound. Every single move is perfect, every effort value perfectly placed, and I still shake my head at how amazing these three are. I originally didn't want to post until I got to 338 but I guess I was enough of a dick to Peterko last gen that I don't have to do the same thing again. Mainly some of you have started posting ideas I've had for weeks if not months and I wanted to spill sooner rather than later, lol. Plus this will make it more suspenseful and that's always fun right? "Let's just say" I'm somewhere between 49 and 337, and I have 100%, absolutely no, NO problem using this team for hundreds of battles.

First, the synergy. Lati@s/Terrakion is quite a tandem, with Latios drawing Dark moves to activate Terrakion's Justified. More intriguing, though, is the fact that Latios resists a whopping five of Terrakion's six weaknesses (only missing Steel while getting Fighting, Psychic, Grass, Ground and Water). I knew I wanted two fast, heavy hitters that weren't exactly frail, and boy do these two fit the bill.

Second, "Latios is amazing". When deciding that Starmie didn't quiet synergize with something defensively enough to be the lead car on a real beast of a train, I opted to give Latios another look. The prospect of Life Orb recoil ending your streak in a 0-0 "draw" now gone, I had tried it on Starmie (Timid) to great success, and had Haxorus and Cobalion to "synergize" with it. Obviously Dragon resists Electric and Grass and Cobalion easily gets the other three types Starmie is weak to, and the three get everything but Ground and Flying as a team (and I had Shuca on Cobalion). But things like TR Cofagrigus and lead Jolteon made this team somewhat shaky...and then add in the fact that Naive Cobalion (RNGed with HP Ice 70 for some reason, was my first BW RNG lol) just wasn't strong enough to kill the things it should no matter how perfect its typing is. Things like Max HP Regice and Max HP Scrafty did not fall to 142 attack CC, leaving the rest of my team scrambling as -1Def/SpD Cobalion fell to pokes it "should have" owned. And as much as I tried to justify the real reason I wanted to try that team (Adamant DD Haxorus is the biggest beast ever after one turn of setup, at +1 it outpaces Thundurus AND outdamages its +2 Timid Thunderbolt), the team wasn't working out.

Latios did work out, on paper anyway. The age-old debate is Starmie's faster speed and "better" dual-STAB vs. Latios's 30 extra base SpA points, Dragon typing and "don't-overlook-me" 110 base SpD. The reason this works so much better than it even seems on paper is that, as touched upon in the last page or so, Latios makes better use of Life Orb than ever before, not just with the no-recoil death thing. Basically, you DP everything that's not weak to boltbeam or your Psychic move, right? Well, the fact that virtually everything that resists DP will also resist your Psychic move is the entire reason Psyshock, on Latios, is hands-down the better move.

As Peterko said and I found out a while back as I calced it myself before making my first move, Psyshock always OHKOes min/min Jolteon. That is almost enough to sell it right there, but consider this: what poke is best poised to take Psyshock but not Psychic and make trouble for the team? Conkeldurr (Weezing isn't exactly a threat). Well guess what: Latios OHKOes Conkeldurr 2-4 every time and doesn't give a shit about the first one that will Bulk Up at like 20% or whatever. Life Orb itself finally won me over, as it notches key KOs that EB Latios (or Starmie) couldn't: like Exeggutor which all die to IB (and "threatens" Suicune/Terrakion if only by type matchup)...Feraligatr 4, which always dies to TB and would be a dick to face if Latios left it at 5% HP or whatever, and effectively a +4 Waterfall (DD, Liechi, and Torrent) and +2 Crunch...Cryogonal, half of which die to Psyshock. It even owns CM Chandelure, doing 52% with Shock while Chandy CMes, only to die the next turn as Latios again targets Defense and does not give a shit about the SpD boost.

You get it. You also probably get Terrakion without too much explanation, though I will point out that Wide Lens serves the dual purpose of making "the worst move in Advance" usable and granting Terrakion immunity from the bullshit of Brightpowder and Lax Incense with regard to CC (except on BP Mismagius but what is that going to do with no real attacks someone tell it to poke the fuck up please). Doesn't fully negate Snow Cloak or Sand Veil but Suicune doesn't necessarily have a big problem with those anyway, especially Snow Cloak. The biggest surprise for me is how effective Sub is—I had it on from a previous team idea, and was just a few A-presses from replacing it with X-Scissor to better deal with Psychics like the Slow twins and I guess Gothitelle, but an honest look at Psychic made me think otherwise. Gallade and Medicham are both OHKOed by +2 CC, Jynx is a bitch who got 99 problems but Wide Lens Rock Slide's accuracy ain't one (or is it, you get the reference and I'm fully aware Jynx takes a trillion percent from CC but I don't like dropping defenses for nothing), Starmie, Espeon and Zam are all very likely faster and can OHKO. Sub lets me set up on idiots who want to try statusing my Sub repeatedly, and basically always allows for a quick win when the situation presents itself.

Last but not least...Holy Water. This is hands down the most reliable self-sufficient, team player Pokémon I've ever used. Scald is an absolute goddishsend—when I saw on bulbapedia reading randomly about freeze status that it actually thawed freeze, I basically immediately went to go rebreed Maybelline, my Adv Milotic. I don't know why I didn't think of Suicune first (the EB Latios/Milotic/Cobalion experiment I tried was eventually trashed by the Timid Balloon Shadow Ball Raikou that isn't 2HKOed by DP), but I'm glad it occurred to me again! As I've said in past Tower/Frontier threads, I swear by Icy Wind, and with the speed-obsessive Subway, ensuring that Latios and Terrakion will be able to dish out a heavy blow should Suicune die (Latios and Terrakion hit 14-of-17 types for SE, missing only Electric, Ghost and Psychic) is a gigantic safety net.

But Holy Water doesn't even need that net most of the time. I can't count how many times Suicune has been able to get to at least +3, stalling the shit out of just about everything with Pressure and "you can't even 3HKO me with the five EQs you have, Jolly Garchomp" Defenses. Suicune has been CHed quite a bit in my exploits but it really takes two back-to-back to put it out of commission. And Scald does not discriminate in its burning hatred of everything that can't absorb how Holy Suicune is—I've beaten pokes like Ferrothorn and Cresselia without worrying one bit. Finally, of significant importance as well is stopping DD Gyarados just as it did in Advance. Yes, a +2 IB is enough to 2-3HKO but there are times when Suicune will be unboosted. I will not lose to Gyarados because it DDed and outsped my team after taking a +2 IB from a like 40% Suicune.

All in all, words. You missed me, didn't you? Fire away with comments and questions cause I missed you fanatics too...

(big ups to Depot Agent Ramses, you crazy philosophical bastard you)
 
I was wondering where you were. I looked and saw "Last post - Jumpman16" and said to myself "Shit." I pretty much followed your progress through DPP with Drapion but never took enough initiative of myself, and then I picked it up and headed down to the Subway with my own Drapion team for BW and it's not good in Subway. DragonRider and I planned it thoroughly, I tried different leads and different backup sweepers for hundreds of hours to no avail. (I never did use 2 cripple Pokés though)

But, I'm about to leave the country which will give me plenty of airport/airplane/roadtrip time to further grind down the Subway so I will dig up my old Drapion team, post it, and maybe just copy your team more than I wanted to previously to attempt to find a saving grace in my former setup hero, Drapion.

Well I guess my biggest problem was that I used a backup sweeper instead of 2 cripple Pokés but here is my lead and Drapion

Uxie - Choice Scarf
Timid - Levitate
244 HP 100 Def 100 SpD 60 Spe
Flash
Memento
Thunder Wave
Trick

And the more successful Uxie

Uxie - Ring Target
Bold - Levitate
252 HP 68 Def 188 SpD
Flash
Memento
Thunder Wave
Trick

And my Drapion

Drapion - Black Sludge
Careful - Battle Armor
252 SpD 124 HP 68 Def 52 Atk 12 Spe
Acupressure
Substitute
Taunt
Crunch

In hindsight, Black Sludge + Substitute number HP with max defenses was probably better in theory than in practice, because my Drapion becomes bulkier after boosting but has less bulk before boosting. And I didn't for a second consider Rest because in my experience all the Subway does is spam Taunt and Roar and Whirlwind which often ruin Drapion's chances of sweeping
 
Hey, look who it is.

I ran an almost identical Whimsicott-Uxie-Drapion team right when this thread opened. I basically got bored of it being so slow and having trouble dealing with suicide leads (HiJumpkick medicham, hyperbeam porygonz, headsmash anything, 5pp, etc) and taunt reliably. The Musketeers were an added annoyance (psych up Cobalion is a funny match up). It is a guaranteed win against most of the matchups from the opening bell, but you have very long odds if the AI randomly gets two of the wrong pokemon. This can be mitigated some what by looking at the moveset lists, but I got bored. I think I ended my last run at 139 or something and didn't bother to take a picture. Medicham with hijumpkick killed itself before Drapion could set up and the next thing out cleaned up with earthquake. The concept is solid, but there is no way you can get 1000+ like last time around with this sort of team.

Actually, I am surprised no one has discussed the problem Drapion has against taunt yet. You are forced to use Taunt with whimsicott on anything that could use taunt back, or taunt will force you to kill the crippled setup pokemon before your are setup. Suicide leads are the biggest threat to Drapion's setup, since the second pokemon out will eventually be the wrong matchup and kill an unboosted drapion. Second pokemon out with taunt can lead to a loss as well, if you have bad enough luck with acupressure. I'd imagine it's even worse if you aren't taunt->trickscarfing like the guy with the moody Bibarell was. And as an aside, why is crunch the first move on Drapion instead of acupressure? If acupressure was first you could just spam 'A' without moving the dpad to the to the top right.

I like the other team a lot though, it should have much better max record potential. I was fiddling with the same trio a while ago and didn't ever really follow through. Icy Wind is interesting, I didn't consider that. Very interested to see how this works out.




Peterko, I lost the first time to some psychic. Been traveling for a while and forgot to update it. I'll try to remember what happened exactly. Both leads were potential trick roomers, I went for T1 overheat/meteor for a KO and guessed wrong. Hydra went down to a surprise focus blast that lost me the match. Since Jump started it off, Ill put up a wall of words at some point about how I play my team when I have a chance, since it seems significantly different than yours.

Latest loss: ice worker via 2x snow cloak miss. =( Going back though 1-49 kinda sucks, I don't know the lower movesets at all. Peterko, could you save your excel file as a txt or asv file and either post it here or upload it to megaupload or something?

My opinion, worst doubles foe rankings are:
Ice, psychic (trick room makes me sad)
legends, Harlequin (stupid trick room)
roughnecks (lost to ohkos once), sand workers (ttar is that annoying)
ace trainer, fighting (no good fighting resistances, hydra is kinda slow though protect helps now)
everything else is a very low threat, starters and eevees are autowins.
 
I'm just going to post a very non-hipster team here that had just beaten the Boss Ingo to second time.

Haxorus @ Lum Berry
Adamant (4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe)
Outrage
Earthquake
Substitute
Dragon Dance

Originally I was planning to slap a choice item for Haxorus (likely scarf) and abuse Outrage (+ EQ + Dual Chop + whatever) so I started earning BP, only to find out that Lum Berry worked much better (as I have no choice item). I also added Sub in place of Dual Chop because of its accuracy and sub being more useful in general. Note that it still does not have conflict with Lum Berry because of the Outrage confusion and/or opposing status users.

Scizor @ Leftovers
Adamant (248 HP, 252 Atk, 8 Spe)
Bullet Punch
Superpower
U-turn
Pursuit

CB Scizor without CB. Idk which is better, basically it has great synergy with Starmie.

Starmie @ Life Orb
Timid (4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe)
Surf
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Psyshock

Psyshock is more useful in BS IMO.

Notice all my Pokemon have 100% acc moves. That's what you should do in Battle Subway, avoiding the hax gods from intervening the match as much as possible.
 
fluffyflyingpig said:
Latest loss: ice worker via 2x snow cloak miss. =( Going back though 1-49 kinda sucks, I don't know the lower movesets at all. Peterko, could you save your excel file as a txt or asv file and either post it here or upload it to megaupload or something?
Click to expand...

Snow Cloak is really really bad...

here´s the excel subsets file,

here I saved the above excel file as a txt file and uploaded it: subsets txt file

here´s the subway trainers list, only takes up half of a page, it´s a quick reference list to check what you´re facing - use with the moveset list

and here´s the actual list, I put two columns on a horizontal page to maximize the number of pokémon sets per page (to not have 4168425 papers printed but only 3, double sided)...

note that TRE´s list somehow misses the EV spread for set2 electrode so mine does as well...

Pokémon Speed Item Move 1 Move 2 Move 3 Move 4 Nature EV spread Pokémon Speed Item Move 1 Move 2 Move 3 Move 4 Nature EV spread
Abomasnow 1 80 Leftovers Frost Breath Icy Wind Leech Seed Ingrain Impish HP/Def/SpD Blaziken 1 121 Salac Berry Hi Jump Kick Counter Flamethrower Will-O-Wisp Naughty HP/Def/Spd
Abomasnow 2 80 Miracle Seed Wood Hammer Brick Break Double Team Blizzard Lonely HP/Atk/SpA Blaziken 2 121 Salac Berry Blaze Kick Flame Charge Endure Reversal Adamant HP/Atk/Spd
Abomasnow 3 72 Focus Sash Blizzard Wood Hammer Focus Blast Ice Shard Quiet HP/SpA Blaziken 3 132 Choice Band Flare Blitz Shadow Claw ThunderPunch Earthquake Hardy Atk/Spd
Abomasnow 4 72 Occa Berry Blizzard Focus Blast Protect Ice Shard Quiet HP/SpA Blaziken 4 132 Shuca Berry Flame Charge Flare Blitz ThunderPunch Low Kick Hardy Atk/Spd
Absol 1 95 Sitrus Berry Payback Mean Look Hone Claws Baton Pass Careful HP/Def/SpD Blissey 1 75 Leftovers Attract Thunder Wave Heal Pulse Aromatherapy Calm Def/SpD
Absol 2 95 Chople Berry Sucker Punch Magic Coat Psycho Cut Taunt Adamant HP/Atk Blissey 2 75 Custap Berry Charge Beam Shadow Ball Grass Knot Thunder Wave Modest Def/SpA
Absol 3 139 Scope Lens Night Slash Zen Headbutt Sucker Punch Superpower Jolly Atk/Spd Blissey 3 75 Leftovers Thunderbolt Ice Beam Counter Calm Mind Bold HP/Def
Absol 4 139 BrightPowder Substitute Swagger Punishment Will-O-Wisp Jolly Atk/Spd Blissey 4 75 Chople Berry Toxic Minimize Mud Bomb Softboiled Bold Def/SpD
Accelgor 1 216 Focus Sash Encore Bug Buzz Giga Drain Me First Hasty Spd/SpA Bouffalant 1 75 Silk Scarf Head Charge Pursuit Scary Face Aerial Ace Adamant HP/Atk
Accelgor 2 197 Petaya Berry Energy Ball Sludge Bomb Bug Buzz Endure Modest Spd/SpA Bouffalant 2 67 Chople Berry Pursuit Revenge Retaliate Swagger Brave HP/Atk
Accelgor 3 216 Focus Sash U-turn Bug Buzz Focus Blast Final Gambit Timid HP/Spd Bouffalant 3 75 Sitrus Berry Swords Dance Earthquake Head Charge Payback Adamant HP/Atk
Accelgor 4 216 Focus Sash Bug Buzz Encore Focus Blast Protect Timid Spd/SpA Bouffalant 4 75 Life Orb Earthquake Head Charge Payback Protect Adamant HP/Atk
Aerodactyl 1 200 Choice Band Rock Slide Jolly Atk/Spd Braviary 1 100 King's Rock Rock Slide Air Slash Tailwind Sky Drop Adamant Atk/Def/SpD
Aerodactyl 2 200 Passho Berry Crunch Rock Slide Roost Sky Drop Naive Atk/Spd Braviary 2 132 Persim Berry Thrash Bulk Up Superpower Pluck Naughty Atk/Spd
Aerodactyl 3 200 Rock Gem Taunt Earthquake Rock Slide Crunch Jolly Atk/Spd Braviary 3 132 Flying Gem Brave Bird Return U-turn Rock Slide Adamant Atk/Spd
Aerodactyl 4 200 Choice Band Stone Edge Aerial Ace Earthquake Crunch Jolly Atk/Spd Braviary 4 132 Wacan Berry Brave Bird Tailwind Superpower Giga Impact Adamant Atk/Spd
Aggron 1 70 Focus Sash Protect Roar Stealth Rock Metal Burst Impish HP/SpD Breloom 1 81 Black Belt Fake Tears Helping Hand Mach Punch Stun Spore Brave HP/Atk
Aggron 2 63 King's Rock Thunder Wave Iron Head Fling Stomp Brave HP/Atk Breloom 2 134 Toxic Orb Substitute Seed Bomb Wake-Up Slap Spore Jolly Atk/Spd
Aggron 3 70 Steel Gem Iron Tail Dragon Rush Avalanche Aerial Ace Adamant Atk/Def Breloom 3 134 Focus Sash Spore Focus Punch Rock Slide Seed Bomb Jolly Atk/Spd
Aggron 4 63 Focus Sash Metal Burst Earthquake Stone Edge Shadow Claw Brave Atk/SpD Breloom 4 90 Toxic Orb Protect Leech Seed Substitute Focus Punch Careful HP/Def/SpD
Alakazam 1 189 TwistedSpoon Energy Ball Psychic Telekinesis Guard Split Timid Spd/SpA Bronzong 1 53 Sitrus Berry Hypnosis Rain Dance Gyro Ball Trick Room Impish HP/Def/SpD
Alakazam 2 189 Focus Sash Psych Up Encore Protect Psychic Timid Spd/SpA Bronzong 2 47 Damp Rock Rain Dance Light Screen Charge Beam Grass Knot Quiet HP/SpA
Alakazam 3 189 Wise Glasses Psychic Focus Blast Signal Beam Grass Knot Timid Spd/SpA Bronzong 3 53 Quick Claw Iron Head Zen Headbutt Earthquake Explosion Adamant HP/Atk
Alakazam 4 189 Choice Specs Psychic Focus Blast Disable Trick Timid Spd/SpA Bronzong 4 47 Lum Berry Safeguard Rock Slide Zen Headbutt Trick Room Brave HP/Atk
Altaria 1 100 Pecha Berry Sing Cotton Guard Echoed Voice Roost Calm HP/SpD Carracosta 1 52 Sitrus Berry Aqua Tail Rock Slide Shell Smash Iron Defense Naughty HP/Atk
Altaria 2 100 Yache Berry Dragon Claw Pluck Mist Hone Claws Lonely Atk/SpD Carracosta 2 52 Wide Lens Rock Slide Swagger Blizzard Hydro Pump Rash HP/SpA
Altaria 3 145 Power Herb Dragon Dance Dragon Rush Sky Attack Earthquake Jolly Atk/Spd Carracosta 3 84 Damp Rock Rain Dance Waterfall Rock Slide Earthquake Adamant Atk/Spd
Altaria4 100 Sitrus Berry Cotton Guard Roost Flamethrower Dragon Pulse Calm HP/SpD Carracosta 4 84 Rindo Berry Waterfall Rock Slide Aqua Jet Earthquake Adamant Atk/Spd
Ambipom 1 183 King's Rock Fake Out Fling Thief U-turn Naive Atk/Spd Claydol 1 95 Absorb Bulb Psychic Ice Beam Protect Calm Mind Calm HP/SpD
Ambipom 2 183 Focus Sash Grass Knot Thunderbolt Nasty Plot Counter Timid Spd/SpA Claydol 2 95 Sitrus Berry Sandstorm Toxic Cosmic Power Explosion Impish HP/Def
Ambipom 3 183 Life Orb Fake Out Double Hit Payback Brick Break Jolly Atk/Spd Claydol 3 95 Ground Gem Earth Power Psychic Ally Switch Ice Beam Modest SpA/SpD
Ambipom 4 183 King's Rock Fling Taunt Return Payback Jolly Atk/Spd Claydol 4 95 Custap Berry Earthquake Zen Headbutt Rock Slide Explosion Adamant Atk/SpD
Ampharos 1 75 Shuca Berry Power Gem Thunder Wave Discharge Charge Beam Mild HP/SpA/SpD Cobalion 1 128 Chesto Berry Focus Blast Flash Cannon Calm Mind Rest Bold HP/SpD
Ampharos 2 67 Lum Berry Brick Break ThunderPunch Screech Odor Sleuth Brave HP/Atk/Def Cobalion 2 115 Sitrus Berry Metal Burst Sacred Sword Quick Attack Iron Head Brave HP/Atk
Ampharos 3 75 Chesto Berry Thunder Wave Charge Beam Hyper Beam Rest Modest HP/SpA Cobalion 3 176 Lax Incense Swagger Substitute Psych Up Iron Head Jolly Atk/Spd
Ampharos 4 67 Zoom Lens Thunder Focus Blast Signal Beam Power Gem Quiet HP/SpA Cobalion 4 176 Life Orb Iron Head Close Combat Quick Guard Protect Jolly Atk/Spd
Arcanine 1 147 Charcoal Flamethrower SolarBeam Incinerate Sunny Day Modest Spd/SpA Cofagrigus 1 45 Chesto Berry Night Shade Will-O-Wisp Mean Look Rest Sassy HP/SpD
Arcanine 2 147 Fire Gem ExtremeSpeed Crunch Overheat Roar Naughty Atk/Spd Cofagrigus 2 45 Spell Tag Shadow Ball Energy Ball Will-O-Wisp Nasty Plot Quiet HP/SpA
Arcanine 3 161 White Herb Overheat Sunny Day SolarBeam Dragon Pulse Timid Spd/SpA Cofagrigus 3 45 Sitrus Berry Will-O-Wisp Shadow Ball Destiny Bond Trick Room Quiet HP/SpA
Arcanine 4 161 Sitrus Berry Close Combat Flare Blitz Crunch ExtremeSpeed Jolly Atk/Spd Cofagrigus 4 50 Leftovers Will-O-Wisp Toxic Hex Calm Mind Bold HP/SpD
Archeops 1 178 Sitrus Berry Quick Attack Acrobatics Crunch U-turn Jolly Atk/Spd Conkeldurr 1 65 Black Belt Rock Slide Force Palm SmellingSalt Bulk Up Bold HP/Def/SpD
Archeops 2 162 Enigma Berry Earthquake Earth Power Endeavor AncientPower Mild Spd/SpA Conkeldurr 2 *29 Iron Ball Mach Punch Hammer Arm Bulk Up Fling Brave Atk/SpD
Archeops 3 178 Choice Band Aerial Ace Earthquake Head Smash U-turn Jolly Atk/Spd Conkeldurr 3 65 Sitrus Berry Bulk Up Drain Punch Payback Stone Edge Adamant Atk/SpD
Archeops 4 178 Sitrus Berry Rock Slide Earthquake Aerial Ace Protect Jolly Atk/Spd Conkeldurr 4 *29 Iron Ball Fling Rock Slide Superpower Mach Punch Brave Atk/SpD
Armaldo 1 58 Chesto Berry X-Scissor Rock Blast Rest Curse Brave HP/SpD Cradily 1 63 Charti Berry Stealth Rock Gastro Acid Stockpile Swallow Bold Def/SpD
Armaldo 2 106 Razor Fang Rock Slide Earthquake X-Scissor Rock Polish Hasty HP/Spd Cradily 2 56 Quick Claw Confuse Ray Energy Ball Stone Edge Earthquake Brave HP/Atk/SpA
Armaldo 3 65 Life Orb X-Scissor Rock Slide Earthquake Iron Defense Adamant HP/SpD Cradily 3 56 Leftovers Sandstorm Toxic Protect Earthquake Relaxed HP/Def
Armaldo 4 65 Choice Band Superpower Stone Edge Earthquake X-Scissor Adamant HP/Atk Cradily 4 56 Big Root Stockpile Protect Ingrain Giga Drain Sassy HP/Def
Articuno 1 105 Icy Rock Hail Blizzard Fly Roost Modest HP/SpA Cresselia 1 105 Chesto Berry Calm Mind Psychic Shadow Ball Rest Bold HP/Def
Articuno 2 105 Lum Berry Sheer Cold Mind Reader Ice Shard Ice Beam Bold HP/SpD Cresselia 2 105 Leftovers Double Team Moonlight Toxic Protect Bold HP/SpD
Articuno 3 150 Lum Berry Blizzard Reflect Protect U-turn Timid Spd/SpA Cresselia 3 105 Lum Berry Icy Wind Safeguard Helping Hand Swagger Bold HP/SpD
Articuno 4 137 Ice Gem Tailwind Blizzard Sky Drop Protect Modest Spd/SpA Cresselia 4 105 BrightPowder Psychic Substitute Toxic Trick Room Bold HP/SpD
Bastiodon 1 50 Enigma Berry Iron Head Taunt Wide Guard Metal Burst Careful HP/Atk Crobat 1 200 Charti Berry Cross Poison X-Scissor Hypnosis U-turn Jolly Atk/Spd
Bastiodon 2 50 Chesto Berry Roar Rest Block Iron Defense Bold HP/Def Crobat 2 200 Sharp Beak Air Slash Shadow Ball Confuse Ray Nasty Plot Timid Spd/SpA
Bastiodon 3 50 Leftovers Stone Edge Fissure Double Team Iron Defense Careful HP/SpD Crobat 3 200 Razor Claw Cross Poison Brave Bird Zen Headbutt X-Scissor Jolly Atk/Spd
Bastiodon 4 45 Sitrus Berry Metal Burst Rock Slide Wide Guard Curse Brave HP/Atk Crobat 4 200 Wide Lens Hypnosis Aerial Ace Cross Poison Taunt Jolly Atk/Spd
Beartic 1 63 Sitrus Berry Shadow Claw Stone Edge Avalanche Bulk Up Brave Atk/SpA Cryogonal 1 172 Charti Berry Icy Wind Ice Beam Confuse Ray Light Screen Timid Def/Spd
Beartic 2 70 NeverMeltIce Hail Icy Wind Grass Knot Blizzard Rash HP/SpA Cryogonal 2 172 Occa Berry Ice Shard Slash Poison Jab Haze Hasty Atk/Spd
Beartic 3 70 Sitrus Berry Swords Dance Avalanche Rock Slide Brick Break Adamant Atk/Def Cryogonal 3 172 Occa Berry Icy Wind Flash Cannon Blizzard Sheer Cold Timid Spd/SpA
Beartic 4 112 Lax Incense Icy Wind Icicle Crash Rock Slide Brick Break Jolly Atk/Spd Cryogonal 4 172 Focus Sash Hail Icy Wind Blizzard Explosion Naive Spd/SpA
Bisharp 1 90 Sitrus Berry Night Slash Metal Claw Taunt Metal Burst Lax HP/Def Darmanitan 1 161 Passho Berry Fire Punch Encore Belly Drum Brick Break Hasty Atk/Spd
Bisharp 2 90 Chople Berry Aerial Ace Low Sweep Iron Head Scary Face Adamant HP/Atk Darmanitan 2 136 Life Orb Focus Energy Hammer Arm Flare Blitz Swagger Naughty HP/Atk/Spd
Bisharp 3 134 Chople Berry Iron Head Night Slash Low Sweep Sucker Punch Jolly Atk/Spd Darmanitan 3 161 Liechi Berry Flame Charge Earthquake Flare Blitz Brick Break Jolly Atk/Spd
Bisharp 4 90 Focus Sash Taunt Sucker Punch Rock Smash Iron Head Adamant HP/Atk Darmanitan 4 115 Sitrus Berry Belly Drum Earthquake Fire Punch Yawn Impish Def/SpD
Blastoise 1 88 Zoom Lens Aqua Ring Rock Slide Aqua Tail Iron Defense Quiet HP/Def/SpD Dewgong 1 90 Icy Rock Icy Wind Toxic Rest Hail Mild HP/Def
Blastoise 2 88 Zoom Lens Hydro Pump Ice Beam Mist Focus Blast Quiet HP/SpA Dewgong 2 122 NeverMeltIce Ice Shard Signal Beam Ice Beam Encore Rash Spd/SpA
Blastoise 3 98 Leftovers Fake Out Earthquake Aqua Tail Avalanche Adamant HP/Atk Dewgong 3 90 Quick Claw Fake Out Surf Ice Beam Aqua Jet Mild SpA/SpD
Blastoise 4 98 Custap Berry Yawn Waterfall Focus Punch Rock Slide Adamant HP/Atk Dewgong 4 90 Salac Berry Rain Dance Rest Surf Stockpile Bold HP/Def/SpD
Pokémon Speed Item Move 1 Move 2 Move 3 Move 4 Nature EV spread Pokémon Speed Item Move 1 Move 2 Move 3 Move 4 Nature EV spread
Donphan 1 63 Metronome Earthquake Scary Face Rollout Defense Curl Brave Atk/Def Exeggutor 1 96 Petaya Berry Psyshock Grass Knot Light Screen Synthesis Mild Spd/SpA/SpD
Donphan 2 70 Focus Sash Endeavor Flail Roar Giga Impact Adamant Atk/SpD Exeggutor 2 86 Sitrus Berry Wood Hammer Curse Egg Bomb Synthesis Brave Atk/Spd/SpD
Donphan 3 63 Sitrus Berry Earthquake Gyro Ball Fire Fang Thunder Fang Brave Atk/Def Exeggutor 3 75 Expert Belt Leaf Storm Psychic Sludge Bomb AncientPower Modest HP/SpA
Donphan 4 70 Quick Claw Earthquake Stone Edge Seed Bomb Fissure Adamant Atk/SpD Exeggutor 4 67 Lum Berry Wood Hammer Zen Headbutt Explosion Trick Room Brave HP/Atk
Dragonite 1 100 Custap Berry Toxic Thunder Wave Roost Rock Slide Impish HP/Def/SpD Exploud 1 88 Chople Berry Fire Blast Roar Uproar Hyper Voice Mild Atk/SpA
Dragonite 2 132 Salac Berry Dragon Rush Ice Beam Thunderbolt Safeguard Mild Spd/SpA Exploud 2 88 Chople Berry Crunch Fake Tears Ice Beam Giga Impact Lonely Atk/SpA
Dragonite 3 100 Choice Band Outrage Earthquake Giga Impact Superpower Adamant Atk/SpD Exploud 3 88 Expert Belt Earthquake Brick Break Ice Punch Crunch Adamant Atk/Def
Dragonite 4 100 Quick Claw Superpower Earthquake ThunderPunch Fire Punch Adamant HP/Atk Exploud 4 132 Life Orb Icy Wind Hyper Voice Focus Blast Shadow Ball Timid Spd/SpA
Drapion 1 115 Scope Lens Night Slash Taunt Toxic Spikes X-Scissor Bold HP/Def Feraligatr 1 98 Lax Incense Screech Aqua Jet Earthquake Block Careful HP/SpD
Drapion 2 161 Dark Gem Cross Poison Crunch Scary Face Screech Naive Atk/Spd Feraligatr 2 119 Liechi Berry Superpower Aqua Tail Ice Fang Dragon Dance Adamant HP/Atk/Spd
Drapion 3 161 Scope Lens Cross Poison Night Slash Fire Fang Earthquake Jolly Atk/Spd Feraligatr 3 98 Lum Berry Aqua Jet Waterfall Earthquake Ice Punch Adamant HP/Atk/SpA/SpD
Drapion 4 115 Razor Claw Cross Poison Night Slash Earthquake Swords Dance Careful HP/Atk Feraligatr 4 130 Liechi Berry Dragon Dance Waterfall Crunch Substitute Adamant Atk/Spd
Drifblim 1 100 Salac Berry Calm Mind Stockpile Memento Baton Pass Bold Def/SpD Ferrothorn 1 40 Leftovers Iron Head Thunder Wave Sandstorm Ingrain Impish HP/Def
Drifblim 2 132 Cell Battery Hex Thunderbolt Dream Eater Hypnosis Mild Spd/SpA Ferrothorn 2 40 Chesto Berry Rest Payback Gyro Ball Curse Careful HP/SpD
Drifblim 3 145 Wise Glasses Shadow Ball Thunderbolt Icy Wind Destiny Bond Timid Def/Spd Ferrothorn 3 36 Custap Berry Protect Payback Explosion Gyro Ball Brave HP/Atk
Drifblim 4 132 Custap Berry Shadow Ball Thunderbolt Hypnosis Destiny Bond Bold Spd/SpD Ferrothorn 4 36 Leftovers Curse Rock Smash Gyro Ball Ingrain Sassy HP/SpD
Druddigon 1 68 Chople Berry Crunch Scary Face Glare Dragon Tail Bold Atk/Def Flareon 1 85 Focus Sash Dig Flail Work Up Fire Blast Naughty Atk/SpA
Druddigon 2 68 Scope Lens Dragon Claw Night Slash Slash Hone Claws Lonely HP/Def/SpD Flareon 2 85 Charcoal Will-O-Wisp Charm Flame Charge Protect Impish HP/Def
Druddigon 3 68 Quick Claw Crunch Dragon Claw Earthquake Rock Slide Adamant HP/Atk Flareon 3 76 White Herb Superpower Return Will-O-Wisp Overheat Brave HP/Atk
Druddigon 4 68 Choice Band Outrage Earthquake Superpower Dragon Tail Adamant HP/Atk Flareon 4 85 White Herb Bite Superpower Giga Impact Fire Fang Adamant Atk/SpD
Dugtrio 1 189 Focus Sash Reversal Attract Dig Protect Hasty Atk/Spd Floatzel 1 183 Binding Band Aqua Tail Protect Pursuit Whirlpool Naive Atk/Spd
Dugtrio 2 172 Choice Band Protect Final Gambit Earthquake Rock Slide Lonely HP/Spd Floatzel 2 183 Flame Orb Aqua Jet Switcheroo Pursuit Crunch Hasty Atk/Spd
Dugtrio 3 189 Choice Band Earthquake Rock Slide Reversal Aerial Ace Jolly Atk/Spd Floatzel 3 183 Damp Rock Surf Ice Beam Focus Blast Rain Dance Hasty Spd/SpA
Dugtrio 4 189 BrightPowder Toxic Dig Substitute Sandstorm Jolly Atk/Spd Floatzel 4 183 Life Orb Waterfall Aqua Jet Low Kick Protect Hasty Atk/Spd
Durant 1 165 Sitrus Berry Crunch Dig Bug Bite Metal Sound Naive HP/Atk/Spd Flygon 1 167 Liechi Berry Earthquake Dragon Claw Endure Fire Blast Naive Atk/Spd
Durant 2 161 Power Herb Dig Iron Defense Agility Baton Pass Impish Def/Spd Flygon 2 167 Haban Berry Swagger Quick Attack Rock Slide U-turn Naive Atk/Spd
Durant 3 177 Occa Berry X-Scissor Iron Head Rock Slide Shadow Claw Jolly Atk/Spd Flygon 3 167 White Herb Draco Meteor Earth Power Flamethrower Giga Drain Timid Spd/SpA
Durant 4 177 Focus Sash Entrainment X-Scissor Iron Head Protect Jolly HP/Spd Flygon 4 152 Lum Berry Earthquake Outrage Crunch Stone Edge Adamant Atk/Spd
Dusknoir 1 65 Leftovers Disable Will-O-Wisp Pain Split Mean Look Bold HP/Def Forretress 1 60 Occa Berry Spikes Struggle Bug Stealth Rock Iron Defense Impish HP/Def
Dusknoir 2 *29 Iron Ball Shadow Sneak Fire Punch Fling Trick Room Brave HP/Atk Forretress 2 60 Sitrus Berry Spikes Earthquake Magnet Rise Gyro Ball Naughty HP/Atk
Dusknoir 3 58 Leftovers Toxic Will-O-Wisp Protect Double Team Sassy HP/SpD Forretress 3 *27 Iron Ball Gyro Ball Earthquake Bug Bite Explosion Brave HP/Atk
Dusknoir 4 58 Lum Berry Shadow Sneak Pain Split Destiny Bond Trick Room Relaxed HP/SpD Forretress 4 60 Custap Berry Toxic Spikes Stealth Rock Spikes Explosion Careful HP/SpD
Eelektross 1 63 Magnet Discharge Gastro Acid Thunderbolt Thunder Wave Quiet HP/SpA Froslass 1 178 Icy Rock Hail Ice Beam Ominous Wind Thunderbolt Timid Spd/SpA
Eelektross 2 70 Expert Belt Crunch Wild Charge Brick Break Coil Naughty HP/Atk Froslass 2 162 Ice Gem Ice Shard Thunder Wave Hex Taunt Lonely Atk/Spd
Eelektross 3 63 Sitrus Berry Brick Break U-turn Grass Knot Wild Charge Brave HP/Atk Froslass 3 178 Icy Rock Hail Blizzard Ice Shard Shadow Ball Timid Spd/SpA
Eelektross 4 70 Leftovers Charge Beam Grass Knot Flamethrower Protect Bold HP/SpD Froslass 4 178 Focus Sash Blizzard Icy Wind Shadow Ball Destiny Bond Timid Spd/SpA
Electivire 1 136 Expert Belt Low Kick Dig Rock Slide Screech Naughty HP/Atk/Spd Gallade 1 145 Expert Belt Shadow Sneak Brick Break Psycho Cut Swords Dance Hasty Atk/Spd
Electivire 2 136 Shuca Berry Fire Punch Electro Ball Ice Punch Protect Adamant HP/Atk/Spd Gallade 2 145 Scope Lens Psycho Cut Leaf Blade Slash Protect Jolly Atk/Spd
Electivire 3 147 Air Balloon Thunderbolt Psychic Focus Blast Signal Beam Modest Spd/SpA Gallade 3 100 Scope Lens Psycho Cut Stone Edge Night Slash X-Scissor Adamant Atk/SpD
Electivire 4 161 Shuca Berry ThunderPunch Fire Punch Ice Punch Earthquake Jolly Atk/Spd Gallade 4 145 Lum Berry Psycho Cut Close Combat Heal Pulse Ally Switch Jolly Atk/Spd
Electrode 1 160 Shuca Berry Swagger Light Screen Charge Beam Thunder Wave Calm HP/SpD Gardevoir 1 133 Wide Lens Hypnosis Calm Mind Imprison Taunt Naive HP/Def/Spd
Electrode 2 176 Focus Sash Electro Ball Taunt Protect Explosion Hasty Gardevoir 2 145 Lum Berry Stored Power Thunderbolt Calm Mind Ally Switch Naive Spd/SpA
Electrode 3 211 Air Balloon Thunderbolt Mirror Coat Signal Beam Protect Timid Spd/SpA Gardevoir 3 100 BrightPowder Psychic Charge Beam Energy Ball Focus Blast Modest SpA/SpD
Electrode 4 211 Damp Rock Rain Dance Thunder Taunt Light Screen Timid Spd/SpA Gardevoir 4 145 Psychic Gem Psychic Thunderbolt Shadow Ball Destiny Bond Timid Spd/SpA
Emboar 1 85 Chesto Berry Gyro Ball Curse Rest Sleep Talk Careful HP/SpD Garchomp 1 169 Lax Incense Earthquake Protect Sandstorm Sand Tomb Jolly HP/Spd
Emboar 2 76 Quick Claw Yawn Wild Charge Bulldoze Heat Crash Brave Atk/Def/SpD Garchomp 2 169 Razor Fang Fire Blast Incinerate Surf Scary Face Hasty Spd/SpA
Emboar 3 85 Quick Claw Flare Blitz Brick Break Flame Charge Earthquake Adamant Atk/Def/SpD Garchomp 3 *231 Choice Scarf Outrage Earthquake Fire Fang Crunch Adamant Atk/Spd
Emboar 4 128 Salac Berry Substitute Flamethrower Focus Blast Scald Timid Spd/SpA Garchomp 4 169 Focus Sash Swords Dance Rock Slide Earthquake Dragon Claw Jolly Atk/Spd
Empoleon 1 80 Sitrus Berry Yawn Swords Dance Aqua Jet Metal Claw Lax HP/Def Gastrodon 1 59 Damp Rock Rain Dance Sludge Bomb Muddy Water Counter Gentle SpA/SpD
Empoleon 2 80 Muscle Band Drill Peck Aqua Jet Metal Claw FeatherDance Lonely HP/Atk/SpD Gastrodon 2 59 Rindo Berry Waterfall Amnesia Curse Yawn Careful Atk/Def/SpD
Empoleon 3 72 Lum Berry Surf Ice Beam Signal Beam Icy Wind Quiet HP/SpA Gastrodon 3 53 Leftovers Sandstorm Earth Power Surf Recover Quiet Def/SpA
Empoleon 4 80 Petaya Berry Surf Substitute Blizzard Whirlpool Calm HP/SpA Gastrodon 4 59 Leftovers Amnesia Curse Earthquake Waterfall Bold Def/SpD
Entei 1 152 Focus Sash Overheat Flame Charge Fire Fang Stone Edge Lonely Atk/Spd Gengar 1 178 Focus Sash Shadow Ball Dream Eater Nightmare Hypnosis Timid Spd/SpA
Entei 2 120 Chesto Berry Calm Mind Will-O-Wisp Flamethrower Rest Bold HP/Def/SpD Gengar 2 178 Expert Belt Sucker Punch Fire Punch Ice Punch Will-O-Wisp Jolly Atk/Spd
Entei 3 250* Choice Scarf Eruption Heat Wave Extrasensory SolarBeam Timid Spd/SpA Gengar 3 178 Focus Sash Shadow Ball Taunt Focus Blast Counter Timid Spd/SpA
Entei 4 120 Life Orb Overheat Double-Edge Stone Edge Protect Adamant HP/Atk Gengar 4 178 Lum Berry Sludge Bomb Thunderbolt Shadow Ball Destiny Bond Timid Spd/SpA
Escavalier 1 36 Liechi Berry Megahorn Quick Guard Swords Dance Reversal Brave HP/Atk Gigalith 1 45 Rawst Berry Bulldoze Rock Blast Gravity Curse Naughty HP/Atk/Def
Escavalier 2 40 Quick Claw Pursuit Counter X-Scissor Swords Dance Naughty HP/Atk Gigalith 2 45 Hard Stone Iron Defense Sandstorm Lock-On Rock Blast Naughty HP/Def
Escavalier 3 36 Life Orb Megahorn Iron Defense Poison Jab Iron Head Brave HP/Atk Gigalith 3 45 Custap Berry Stone Edge Earthquake Sandstorm Explosion Adamant HP/Atk
Escavalier 4 40 Custap Berry Megahorn Iron Head Swagger Reversal Adamant HP/Atk Gigalith 4 40 Leftovers Rock Slide Stealth Rock Curse Earthquake Quiet HP/SpD
Espeon 1 178 Focus Sash Yawn Dream Eater Calm Mind Protect Naive Spd/SpA Glaceon 1 85 Quick Claw Ice Shard Blizzard Mirror Coat Helping Hand Rash HP/SpA
Espeon 2 178 Kasib Berry Psyshock Grass Knot Telekinesis Charm Timid HP/Spd Glaceon 2 85 Chesto Berry Frost Breath Shadow Ball Rest Barrier Bold HP/Def
Espeon 3 162 Lum Berry Psychic Shadow Ball Hyper Beam Grass Knot Modest Spd/SpA Glaceon 3 85 Focus Sash Hail Blizzard Mirror Coat Hyper Beam Modest Def/SpA
Espeon 4 178 Psychic Gem Psychic Shadow Ball Signal Beam Morning Sun Timid Spd/SpA Glaceon 4 85 BrightPowder Blizzard Shadow Ball Signal Beam Detect Modest Def/SpA
Excadrill 1 108 Soft Sand Hone Claws Rock Slide Drill Run Iron Defense Naughty Atk/Def Gliscor 1 147 Razor Fang Acrobatics Fling U-turn Swords Dance Naughty Atk/Spd
Excadrill 2 108 Chople Berry Dig Metal Sound Metal Claw Swords Dance Adamant Atk/Def Gliscor 2 115 Liechi Berry Agility Acrobatics Swords Dance Baton Pass Impish HP/Def
Excadrill 3 108 BrightPowder Sandstorm Earthquake Rock Slide Poison Jab Adamant Atk/Def/SpD Gliscor 3 115 Expert Belt Aerial Ace Earthquake X-Scissor Stone Edge Adamant Atk/Def
Excadrill 4 108 Life Orb Earthquake Aerial Ace Poison Jab Rock Slide Adamant Atk/Def/SpD Gliscor 4 161 Focus Sash Earthquake Acrobatics U-turn Counter Jolly HP/Spd
Pokémon Speed Item Move 1 Move 2 Move 3 Move 4 Nature EV spread Pokémon Speed Item Move 1 Move 2 Move 3 Move 4 Nature EV spread
Golem 1 65 Hard Stone Stealth Rock Curse Gyro Ball Smack Down Impish HP/Atk/Def Jynx 1 115 Enigma Berry Captivate Mean Look Lovely Kiss Attract Calm HP/Def
Golem 2 97 Absorb Bulb Rock Slide Earthquake Bulldoze Autotomize Naughty Atk/Spd Jynx 2 147 Destiny Knot Frost Breath Fake Out Psychic Taunt Mild Spd/SpA
Golem 3 106 Focus Sash Rock Slide Earthquake Explosion Autotomize Jolly Atk/Spd Jynx 3 147 Expert Belt Icy Wind Blizzard Psychic Focus Blast Modest Spd/SpA
Golem 4 *29 Iron Ball Rock Slide Earthquake Explosion Fling Brave Atk/SpD Jynx 4 161 Wide Lens Lovely Kiss Blizzard Psychic Fake Out Timid Spd/SpA
Golurk 1 75 Muscle Band Shadow Punch Iron Defense Bulldoze Heavy Slam Lonely HP/SpD Kangaskhan 1 142 Sitrus Berry Dizzy Punch Fake Out Chip Away Roar Adamant Atk/Spd
Golurk 2 67 Wide Lens Hammer Arm Rock Slide Curse Gyro Ball Brave Atk/SpD Kangaskhan 2 156 Salac Berry Rock Slide Sucker Punch Endure Reversal Jolly Atk/Spd
Golurk 3 75 Lum Berry DynamicPunch Shadow Punch Earthquake Rock Slide Adamant HP/Atk Kangaskhan 3 156 Chople Berry Fake Out Double-Edge Circle Throw Sucker Punch Jolly Atk/Spd
Golurk 4 *33 Iron Ball Hammer Arm Earthquake Shadow Punch Fling Brave HP/Atk Kangaskhan 4 156 Salac Berry Fake Out Endeavor Return Substitute Jolly Atk/Spd
Gothitelle 1 95 Chesto Berry Fake Tears Psychic Rest Calm Mind Sassy HP/Def/Spd Kingdra 1 126 Persim Berry Waterfall Quash Protect Outrage Adamant HP/Atk/Spd
Gothitelle 2 85 TwistedSpoon Psyshock Miracle Eye Mirror Coat Tickle Modest HP/Def/SpA Kingdra 2 105 Haban Berry Dragon Pulse Waterfall Ice Beam Dragon Dance Mild HP/Atk/SpA
Gothitelle 3 85 Sitrus Berry Charm Safeguard Psychic Charge Beam Modest HP/SpA Kingdra 3 126 Sitrus Berry Rain Dance Hydro Pump Dragon Pulse Ice Beam Modest HP/Spd/SpA
Gothitelle 4 85 BrightPowder Substitute Flatter Psych Up Psychic Modest HP/SpA Kingdra 4 126 White Herb Draco Meteor Surf Blizzard Protect Modest HP/Spd/SpA
Granbull 1 65 Jaboca Berry Metronome Attract Mimic Return Naughty HP/Def/SpD Klinklang 1 142 Shuca Berry Gear Grind Thunder Wave Screech Volt Switch Impish HP/Spd
Granbull 2 65 Silk Scarf Charm Double-Edge Payback Bulk Up Adamant Atk/Def Klinklang 2 142 White Herb Charge Beam Metal Sound Flash Cannon Autotomize Mild Spd/SpA
Granbull 3 65 Lum Berry Double-Edge Roar Crunch Sludge Bomb Adamant Atk/SpD Klinklang 3 142 Occa Berry Shift Gear Gear Grind Volt Switch Giga Impact Adamant Atk/Spd
Granbull 4 65 Leftovers Charm Toxic Dig Protect Impish HP/Def Klinklang 4 142 Steel Gem Flash Cannon Thunderbolt Protect Toxic Modest Spd/SpA
Gyarados 1 122 Muscle Band Ice Fang Aqua Tail Thunder Wave Dragon Dance Lonely HP/Atk/Spd Krookodile 1 112 BlackGlasses Crunch Bulldoze Taunt Counter Naughty Atk/Def/SpD
Gyarados 2 133 Chesto Berry Waterfall Rest Bulldoze Giga Impact Naughty Atk/Spd Krookodile 2 112 Rock Gem Smack Down Earthquake Pursuit Embargo Naughty Atk/Def
Gyarados 3 146 Wacan Berry Dragon Dance Waterfall Stone Edge Earthquake Jolly Atk/Spd Krookodile 3 112 Dark Gem Earthquake Crunch Stone Edge Dragon Tail Adamant Atk/SpD
Gyarados 4 101 Chesto Berry Dragon Dance Aqua Tail Earthquake Rest Careful HP/SpD Krookodile 4 158 Liechi Berry Earthquake Pursuit Low Sweep Rock Slide Jolly Atk/Spd
Hariyama 1 63 King's Rock Feint Fake Out Smack Down Vital Throw Brave Atk/Def/SpD Landorus 1 153 Focus Sash Earthquake Rock Slide Smack Down Bulldoze Adamant Atk/Spd
Hariyama 2 70 Custap Berry Reversal Bullet Punch Protect Belly Drum Careful Def/SpD Landorus 2 *229 Choice Scarf Earthquake Rock Slide Outrage Brick Break Adamant Atk/Spd
Hariyama 3 63 Flame Orb Fake Out Close Combat Detect Earthquake Brave Atk/Def Landorus 3 168 Ground Gem Sandstorm Earthquake Rock Slide Protect Jolly Atk/Spd
Hariyama 4 70 Sitrus Berry Belly Drum Brick Break Ice Punch Bullet Punch Careful Def/SpD Landorus 4 168 Focus Sash Earth Power Psychic Sludge Bomb Grass Knot Timid Spd/SpA
Haxorus 1 163 Haban Berry Dual Chop Earthquake Roar Taunt Hasty Atk/Spd Lanturn 1 87 Salac Berry Thunder Wave Discharge Electro Ball Agility Naughty Atk/Def
Haxorus 2 138 Persim Berry Outrage Rock Slide Counter Dragon Dance Naughty HP/Def/Spd Lanturn 2 87 Sitrus Berry Thunder Wave Charge Beam Stockpile Swallow Calm Def/SpA
Haxorus 3 163 Choice Band Outrage Earthquake Dragon Claw Jolly Atk/Spd Lanturn 3 87 Petaya Berry Surf Discharge Thunder Wave Ice Beam Modest Def/SpA/SpD
Haxorus 4 163 Yache Berry Dragon Dance Dragon Claw Dragon Tail Earthquake Jolly Atk/Spd Lanturn 4 87 Chesto Berry Stockpile Rest Charge Beam Ice Beam Bold Def/SpD
Heatran 1 97 Focus Sash Lava Plume Earth Power Flash Cannon Dark Pulse Modest HP/SpA Lapras 1 72 Damp Rock Rain Dance Thunder Ice Shard Confuse Ray Quiet Def/SpA
Heatran 2 97 White Herb Overheat Will-O-Wisp Flash Cannon Protect Modest HP/SpA Lapras 2 80 Mystic Water Surf Ice Beam Rest Sleep Talk Modest Def/SpA/SpD
Heatran 3 97 Shuca Berry Sunny Day Fire Blast SolarBeam Earth Power Modest HP/SpA Lapras 3 80 BrightPowder Surf Ice Beam Thunderbolt Psychic Modest HP/SpA
Heatran 4 *211 Choice Scarf Magma Storm Earth Power Dragon Pulse Flash Cannon Timid Spd/SpA Lapras 4 80 Chesto Berry Perish Song Rest Body Slam Block Impish Def/SpD
Heracross 1 94 Black Belt Aerial Ace Pursuit Swords Dance Brick Break Brave HP/Atk/Def Latias 1 130 Chesto Berry Calm Mind Reflect Type Dragon Pulse Rest Bold HP/Def
Heracross 2 137 Salac Berry Megahorn Dig Endure Reversal Naughty HP/Spd Latias 2 178 White Herb Draco Meteor Thunder Psychic Protect Timid Spd/SpA
Heracross 3 150 Coba Berry Megahorn Stone Edge Facade Shadow Claw Jolly Atk/Spd Latias 3 178 Choice Specs Draco Meteor Thunderbolt Psychic Trick Timid Spd/SpA
Heracross 4 150 Salac Berry Megahorn Earthquake Reversal Endure Jolly Atk/Spd Latias 4 162 Life Orb Draco Meteor Earthquake Hone Claws Dragon Claw Adamant Atk/Spd
Hippowdon 1 67 Soft Sand Earthquake Crunch Yawn Whirlwind Impish Atk/Def Latios 1 130 Chesto Berry Calm Mind Luster Purge Dragon Pulse Rest Bold HP/Def
Hippowdon 2 67 Sitrus Berry Crunch Rock Slide Protect Curse Lonely HP/Atk Latios 2 178 White Herb Draco Meteor Thunderbolt Psychic Protect Timid Spd/SpA
Hippowdon 3 67 Sitrus Berry Earthquake Crunch Slack Off Yawn Adamant Atk/SpD Latios 3 178 Choice Specs Draco Meteor Thunder Psychic Energy Ball Timid Spd/SpA
Hippowdon 4 60 Chesto Berry Curse Rest Earthquake Crunch Sassy HP/SpD Latios 4 162 Life Orb Draco Meteor Earthquake Dragon Dance Outrage Adamant Atk/Spd
Honchkrow 1 81 Sitrus Berry Psychic Dark Pulse Protect Nasty Plot Quiet Def/SpA/SpD Leafeon 1 147 Scope Lens X-Scissor Leaf Blade Swords Dance GrassWhistle Impish HP/Spd
Honchkrow 2 81 BlackGlasses Sucker Punch Taunt Pursuit Protect Brave Atk/SpD Leafeon 2 161 Liechi Berry Leaf Blade Giga Impact Substitute Yawn Naive Atk/Spd
Honchkrow 3 91 Life Orb Air Cutter Dark Pulse Snatch Shadow Ball Modest HP/SpA Leafeon 3 115 Heat Rock Sunny Day Leaf Blade X-Scissor Synthesis Adamant Atk/Def
Honchkrow 4 91 Life Orb Night Slash Drill Peck Sucker Punch Thunder Wave Adamant HP/Atk Leafeon 4 115 Quick Claw Leaf Blade X-Scissor Aerial Ace Detect Adamant Atk/Def
Houndoom 1 147 Charcoal Incinerate Flame Charge Will-O-Wisp Sucker Punch Adamant Atk/Spd Lickilicky 1 77 Sitrus Berry Thunderbolt Ice Beam Me First Psych Up Naive HP/Def/SpA
Houndoom 2 161 Focus Sash Counter Flame Charge Roar Protect Hasty Atk/Spd Lickilicky 2 70 Chople Berry Gyro Ball Rest Curse Sleep Talk Adamant HP/Atk/Def/SpD
Houndoom 3 161 Air Balloon Flamethrower Shadow Ball Sludge Bomb Will-O-Wisp Timid Spd/SpA Lickilicky 3 70 Leftovers Return Gyro Ball Curse Rest Careful HP/SpD
Houndoom 4 161 White Herb Overheat Dark Pulse SolarBeam Sunny Day Timid Spd/SpA Lickilicky 4 70 Lax Incense Body Slam Power Whip Earthquake Explosion Adamant HP/Atk
Hydreigon 1 150 Dragon Fang Dragon Pulse Earth Power Surf Dragon Tail Rash Atk/Spd Lilligant 1 156 Persim Berry Charm Sleep Powder Petal Dance Healing Wish Timid Spd/SpA
Hydreigon 2 139 Wide Lens Focus Blast Fire Blast Dragon Rush Work Up Mild Atk/Spd/SpA Lilligant 2 110 Big Root Ingrain Leech Seed Toxic Protect Bold HP/Def/SpD
Hydreigon 3 165 White Herb Draco Meteor Taunt Earth Power Flamethrower Timid Spd/SpA Lilligant 3 110 Leftovers Quiver Dance Energy Ball Leech Seed Protect Bold HP/Def
Hydreigon 4 165 Dragon Gem Dragon Rush Earthquake Crunch Dragon Tail Jolly Atk/Spd Lilligant 4 126 Lum Berry SolarBeam Teeter Dance Charm Leech Seed Bold HP/Def/Spd/SpA
Chandelure 1 121 Spell Tag Flamethrower Confuse Ray Will-O-Wisp Hex Modest HP/Spd/SpA Lopunny 1 172 Toxic Orb Fake Out Encore Fling Dizzy Punch Naive HP/Spd
Chandelure 2 145 Chesto Berry Energy Ball Rest Heat Wave Will-O-Wisp Timid HP/Spd Lopunny 2 172 Liechi Berry Charm Focus Punch Substitute ThunderPunch Jolly Atk/Spd
Chandelure 3 100 White Herb Overheat Shadow Ball Protect Will-O-Wisp Modest HP/SpA Lopunny 3 172 Chople Berry Encore Fake Out Focus Punch Mirror Coat Jolly HP/Spd
Chandelure 4 100 Leftovers Calm Mind Will-O-Wisp Shadow Ball Heat Wave Bold HP/SpD Lopunny 4 172 Flame Orb Switcheroo Mirror Coat Protect Dig Jolly HP/Spd
Charizard 1 141 Salac Berry Dragon Claw Flame Charge Belly Drum Substitute Adamant HP/Spd/SpD Lucario 1 142 Black Belt Metal Sound Dark Pulse Aura Sphere Heal Pulse Modest Spd/SpA
Charizard 2 152 Charti Berry Dragon Claw Shadow Claw Rock Slide Dragon Dance Adamant Atk/Spd Lucario 2 156 Focus Sash Close Combat Hone Claws Endure Reversal Jolly Atk/Spd
Charizard 3 *211 Choice Scarf Heat Wave Rock Slide Air Slash Crunch Mild Atk/Spd/SpA Lucario 3 156 Muscle Band Close Combat Earthquake Blaze Kick Shadow Claw Jolly Atk/Spd
Charizard 4 141 Salac Berry Belly Drum Substitute Fire Punch Earthquake Adamant HP/Atk/Spd Lucario 4 142 Expert Belt Aura Sphere Psychic Shadow Ball Follow Me Modest Spd/SpA
Infernape 1 176 King's Rock Fake Out Encore Fling Acrobatics Jolly Atk/Spd Ludicolo 1 90 Leftovers Leech Seed Toxic Giga Drain Rain Dance Lax HP/Def/SpA
Infernape 2 149 Charcoal Heat Wave Will-O-Wisp Grass Knot Calm Mind Mild HP/Spd/SpA Ludicolo 2 90 Tanga Berry Fake Out Grass Knot Surf Tickle Naughty HP/Atk/SpA
Infernape 3 176 Life Orb Fake Out Close Combat Overheat Stone Edge Hasty Atk/Spd Ludicolo 3 90 Leftovers Rain Dance Leech Seed Protect Giga Drain Bold Def/SpA/SpD
Infernape 4 176 Focus Sash Fake Out Encore Flare Blitz Close Combat Jolly Atk/Spd Ludicolo 4 122 Sitrus Berry Fake Out Hydro Pump Leech Seed Grass Knot Modest Spd/SpA
Jolteon 1 200 Magnet Quick Attack Thunderbolt Thunder Wave Swagger Hasty Spd/SpA Luxray 1 90 Magnet Wild Charge Crunch Captivate Swagger Lonely Atk/SpD
Jolteon 2 200 Damp Rock Thunder Protect Charm Rain Dance Timid Spd/SpA Luxray 2 90 Quick Claw Charge Beam Helping Hand Discharge Roar Careful HP/SpD
Jolteon 3 200 King's Rock Thunder Shadow Ball Rain Dance Yawn Timid Spd/SpA Luxray 3 90 White Herb Thunder Fang Ice Fang Superpower Thunder Wave Adamant HP/Atk
Jolteon 4 200 Razor Fang Thunderbolt Hyper Beam Fake Tears Signal Beam Timid Spd/SpA Luxray 4 90 Air Balloon Thunder Fang Ice Fang Light Screen Thunder Wave Careful HP/SpD
Pokémon Speed Item Move 1 Move 2 Move 3 Move 4 Nature EV spread Pokémon Speed Item Move 1 Move 2 Move 3 Move 4 Nature EV spread
Magmortar 1 103 Passho Berry Flame Charge Earthquake Confuse Ray Barrier Adamant HP/Atk Musharna 1 49 Zoom Lens Hypnosis Dream Eater Calm Mind Helping Hand Mild Def/SpA/SpD
Magmortar 2 135 Wide Lens Fire Blast Flame Burst Focus Blast Taunt Modest Spd/SpA Musharna 2 49 Lum Berry Shadow Ball Energy Ball Psychic Trick Room Bold Def/SpA
Magmortar 3 148 Passho Berry Flare Blitz ThunderPunch Earthquake Brick Break Jolly Spd Musharna 3 49 Scope Lens Psychic Shadow Ball Energy Ball Yawn Modest Def/SpA
Magmortar 4 148 White Herb Overheat Psychic Focus Blast Protect Timid Spd/SpA Musharna 4 44 Chesto Berry Stored Power Calm Mind Shadow Ball Rest Relaxed Def/SpD
Magnezone 1 80 Magnet Metal Sound Flash Cannon Thunderbolt Magnet Rise Rash HP/SpA Nidoking 1 105 King's Rock Bulldoze Megahorn Rock Slide Hone Claws Naughty HP/Atk
Magnezone 2 72 Shuca Berry Charge Beam Thunder Wave Flash Cannon Mirror Coat Quiet HP/SpA Nidoking 2 94 Black Sludge Amnesia Sludge Bomb Flamethrower Protect Quiet HP/SpA
Magnezone 3 80 BrightPowder Charge Beam Flash Cannon Magnet Rise Thunder Wave Modest Def/SpA Nidoking 3 137 Black Sludge Earth Power Sludge Bomb Protect Icy Wind Modest Spd/SpA
Magnezone 4 80 Electric Gem Thunderbolt Flash Cannon Tri Attack Volt Switch Modest Def/SpA Nidoking 4 137 Muscle Band Earthquake Poison Jab Megahorn Protect Adamant Atk/Spd
Machamp 1 67 Rawst Berry DynamicPunch Payback Foresight Wide Guard Brave HP/Atk Nidoqueen 1 86 Payapa Berry Chip Away Swagger Helping Hand Flatter Relaxed HP/Def/SpD
Machamp 2 67 Expert Belt Ice Punch Cross Chop Fire Punch Focus Energy Brave HP/Atk Nidoqueen 2 96 Absorb Bulb Thunderbolt Hyper Beam Earth Power Counter Mild HP/SpA
Machamp 3 *175 Choice Scarf DynamicPunch Ice Punch Rock Slide Earthquake Jolly Atk/Spd Nidoqueen 3 96 Black Sludge Sludge Bomb Earth Power Flamethrower Ice Beam Modest HP/SpA
Machamp 4 75 Flame Orb Protect Earthquake Close Combat Payback Adamant Atk/SpD Nidoqueen 4 96 Black Sludge Poison Jab Dragon Tail Bulldoze Earthquake Adamant HP/Atk
Mamoswine 1 121 Passho Berry Double Hit Earthquake Ice Shard Stealth Rock Adamant Atk/Spd/SpD Ninetales 1 152 Passho Berry Will-O-Wisp Hypnosis Extrasensory Heat Wave Modest Spd/SpA
Mamoswine 2 90 Zoom Lens Stone Edge Bulldoze Blizzard Ice Fang Brave Atk/Def/SpD Ninetales 2 167 Fire Gem Heat Wave Roar Confuse Ray Nasty Plot Timid HP/Spd
Mamoswine 3 100 Lax Incense Hail Earthquake Superpower Fissure Adamant HP/Atk Ninetales 3 167 Wide Lens Fire Blast Extrasensory Hypnosis Disable Timid Spd/SpD
Mamoswine 4 100 Life Orb Earthquake Ice Fang Double-Edge Stone Edge Adamant HP/Atk Ninetales 4 167 Passho Berry Flamethrower Extrasensory Energy Ball Calm Mind Timid HP/Spd
Mandibuzz 1 132 Wacan Berry Taunt Flatter Roost Toxic Calm Spd/SpD Pinsir 1 137 Persim Berry Bug Bite Brick Break Thrash Swords Dance Naughty Atk/Spd
Mandibuzz 2 132 Flying Gem Dark Pulse Air Slash Shadow Ball Nasty Plot Mild Spd/SpA Pinsir 2 137 Insect Plate Feint X-Scissor Stone Edge Bug Bite Lonely Atk/Spd
Mandibuzz 3 100 Sitrus Berry Nasty Plot Dark Pulse Air Slash Incinerate Modest HP/Def/SpD Pinsir 3 105 Lax Incense X-Scissor Superpower Stone Edge Giga Impact Adamant Atk/Def
Mandibuzz 4 100 Leftovers Substitute Swagger Punishment Roost Careful HP/Def/SpD Pinsir 4 *225 Choice Scarf X-Scissor Earthquake Close Combat Guillotine Jolly Atk/Spd
Manectric 1 157 Life Orb Crunch Odor Sleuth Quick Attack Wild Charge Adamant Atk/Spd Politoed 1 *0 Full Incense Waterfall Encore Swagger Bounce Modest Spd/SpA
Manectric 2 157 Charcoal Flamethrower Overheat Discharge Charge Modest Spd/SpA Politoed 2 81 Water Gem Thief Echoed Voice Refresh Hydro Pump Brave Atk/SpA
Manectric 3 172 Air Balloon Thunderbolt Overheat Volt Switch Quick Attack Timid Spd/SpA Politoed 3 90 Chesto Berry Waterfall Earthquake Belly Drum Rest Careful Atk/SpD
Manectric 4 *258 Choice Scarf Switcheroo Thunder Volt Switch Overheat Timid Spd/SpA Politoed 4 90 Wide Lens Hydro Pump Blizzard Focus Blast Hypnosis Modest SpA/SpD
Marowak 1 65 Salac Berry Substitute Detect Earthquake Swords Dance Careful HP/SpD Poliwrath 1 90 Sitrus Berry Ice Beam Waterfall Psychic Work Up Naughty HP/Atk/SpA
Marowak 2 29* Iron Ball Earthquake Fling Brick Break Detect Brave HP/Atk Poliwrath 2 99 Shell Bell Brick Break Waterfall Hypnosis Belly Drum Naive HP/Atk
Marowak 3 106 Thick Club Earthquake Stone Edge Low Kick Fire Punch Jolly Atk/Spd Poliwrath 3 90 Leftovers Waterfall Focus Punch Encore Substitute Adamant HP/Atk
Marowak 4 106 Thick Club Earthquake Outrage Detect Rock Slide Jolly Atk/Spd Poliwrath 4 90 Sitrus Berry Waterfall Earthquake Focus Punch Circle Throw Adamant HP/Atk
Medicham 1 132 Black Belt Fake Out Hi Jump Kick Bulk Up Feint Impish HP/Spd Porygon2 1 80 Sitrus Berry Blizzard Magic Coat Lock-On Zap Cannon Modest HP/SpA
Medicham 2 145 TwistedSpoon Psychic Shadow Ball Energy Ball Calm Mind Timid Spd/SpA Porygon2 2 80 Petaya Berry Tri Attack Psychic Recycle Recover Calm HP/Def/SpD
Medicham 3 145 Expert Belt Hi Jump Kick Zen Headbutt Ice Punch Bullet Punch Jolly Atk/Spd Porygon2 3 80 Choice Specs Tri Attack Thunderbolt Psychic Ice Beam Modest HP/SpA
Medicham 4 132 Life Orb Hi Jump Kick Psycho Cut Fake Out Detect Adamant Atk/Spd Porygon2 4 80 Lum Berry Tri Attack Thunder Wave Shadow Ball Ice Beam Modest HP/SpA
Meganium 1 100 Sitrus Berry Light Screen Aromatherapy Swagger SolarBeam Gentle HP/SpD Porygon-z 1 142 Wise Glasses Psychic Shadow Ball Thunderbolt Thunder Wave Modest Spd/SpA
Meganium 2 100 Chesto Berry GrassWhistle Double Team Substitute Rest Bold HP/Def Porygon-z 2 142 Choice Specs Hyper Beam Modest Spd/SpA
Meganium 3 100 Light Clay Seed Bomb Earthquake Reflect Light Screen Adamant HP/Atk Porygon-z 3 110 Expert Belt Psychic Ice Beam Signal Beam Charge Beam Modest HP/SpA
Meganium 4 100 Leftovers Leech Seed Ingrain Toxic Protect Bold Def/SpD Porygon-z 4 156 Sitrus Berry Tri Attack Thunderbolt Shadow Ball Recover Timid Spd/SpA
Metagross 1 134 Occa Berry Meteor Mash Magnet Rise Zen Headbutt Agility Naive Atk/Spd Probopass 1 60 Cheri Berry Smack Down Volt Switch Thunder Wave Magnet Rise Calm HP/SpD
Metagross 2 81 Occa Berry Psychic Shadow Ball Meteor Mash Magnet Rise Quiet HP/Atk/SpA Probopass 2 60 Sitrus Berry Block Iron Defense Flash Cannon Discharge Bold HP/Def
Metagross 3 90 Occa Berry Earthquake Meteor Mash Bullet Punch Explosion Adamant HP/Atk/SpD Probopass 3 60 Scope Lens Stone Edge Iron Head Earthquake Explosion Adamant Atk/Def
Metagross 4 90 Toxic Orb Trick Meteor Mash Protect Earthquake Careful HP/SpD Probopass 4 60 Life Orb Flash Cannon Power Gem Earth Power Thunderbolt Modest SpA/SpD
Mienshao 1 172 Salac Berry U-turn Endure Calm Mind Baton Pass Naive HP/Spd Quagsire 1 55 Rindo Berry Rest Sleep Talk Toxic Bulldoze Impish HP/Def
Mienshao 2 172 King's Rock Fake Out Fling Acrobatics Hi Jump Kick Jolly Atk/Spd Quagsire 2 *27 Iron Ball Earthquake Stockpile Fling Swallow Impish HP/Def/SpD
Mienshao 3 172 Focus Sash Low Kick Fake Out Hi Jump Kick U-turn Jolly Atk/Spd Quagsire 3 55 Rindo Berry Earthquake Aqua Tail Ice Punch Stone Edge Adamant Atk/SpD
Mienshao 4 125 Muscle Band Feint Fake Out Hi Jump Kick Wide Guard Impish HP/Atk Quagsire 4 55 Leftovers Curse Amnesia Earthquake Waterfall Careful HP/SpD
Milotic 1 101 Enigma Berry Surf Recover Mirror Coat Confuse Ray Bold HP/Def Raichu 1 152 Focus Sash Encore Thief Thunder Wave Discharge Adamant Spd/SpA
Milotic 2 90 Leftovers Hydro Pump Toxic Attract Aqua Ring Quiet HP/Def Raichu 2 167 Magnet Brick Break Electro Ball Fake Out Protect Jolly Atk/Spd
Milotic 3 101 Wide Lens Hydro Pump Blizzard Mirror Coat Recover Calm SpA/SpD Raichu 3 167 Focus Sash ThunderPunch Reversal Thunder Wave Fake Out Jolly Atk/Spd
Milotic 4 101 Leftovers Ice Beam Rest Sleep Talk Surf Impish HP/SpD Raichu 4 167 Lum Berry Encore Magnet Rise Thunderbolt Grass Knot Timid Spd/SpA
Miltank 1 167 Lum Berry Body Slam Helping Hand Milk Drink Heal Bell Jolly HP/Spd Raikou 1 183 Shuca Berry Thunderbolt Volt Switch Shadow Ball Extrasensory Timid Spd/SpA
Miltank 2 167 Razor Fang Body Slam Fling Brick Break Captivate Naive Atk/Spd Raikou 2 183 Leftovers Charge Beam Magnet Rise Calm Mind Shadow Ball Timid Def/Spd
Miltank 3 120 Scope Lens Dizzy Punch Fire Punch ThunderPunch Ice Punch Adamant Atk/Def Raikou 3 183 Air Balloon Thunderbolt Volt Switch Shadow Ball Protect Timid Spd/SpA
Miltank 4 167 Salac Berry Substitute Earthquake Rock Slide Zen Headbutt Jolly Atk/Spd Raikou 4 183 Air Balloon Thunder Discharge Reflect Extrasensory Timid Spd/SpA
Mismagius 1 172 Colbur Berry Taunt Protect Imprison Shadow Ball Naive HP/Spd Rampardos 1 70 Passho Berry Rock Slide Crunch Curse Protect Brave Atk/Def/SpD
Mismagius 2 137 Kasib Berry Shadow Ball Wonder Room Grudge Pain Split Timid HP/SpD Rampardos 2 110 Sitrus Berry Head Smash Stone Edge Hammer Arm Scary Face Naughty Atk/Spd
Mismagius 3 172 Sitrus Berry Icy Wind Shadow Ball Thunderbolt Destiny Bond Timid Spd/SpA Rampardos 3 *181 Choice Scarf Head Smash Earthquake Brick Break ThunderPunch Jolly Atk/Spd
Mismagius 4 125 BrightPowder Confuse Ray Protect Perish Song Mean Look Bold HP/Def Rampardos 4 70 Sitrus Berry Head Smash Earthquake Rock Slide Protect Relaxed Atk/SpD
Moltres 1 142 White Herb Overheat Air Slash Tailwind Will-O-Wisp Modest Spd/SpA Rapidash 1 157 Passho Berry Bounce Flame Charge Low Kick Charm Naughty Atk/Spd
Moltres 2 142 Power Herb Flame Charge Sky Attack Aerial Ace Fire Blast Naughty Atk/Spd Rapidash 2 172 Heat Rock Will-O-Wisp Fire Blast SolarBeam Sunny Day Hasty Spd/SpA
Moltres 3 156 Heat Rock Sunny Day SolarBeam Flamethrower Air Slash Timid Spd/SpA Rapidash 3 172 Focus Sash Flare Blitz Poison Jab Iron Tail Horn Drill Jolly Atk/Spd
Moltres 4 156 Charcoal Heat Wave Incinerate Air Slash Protect Timid Spd/SpA Rapidash 4 172 Charcoal Flare Blitz Megahorn Double-Edge Protect Jolly Atk/Spd
Mr. Mime 1 *181 Choice Scarf Trick Nasty Plot Barrier Baton Pass Naive HP/Def/SpD Regice 1 70 Sitrus Berry Thunderbolt Ice Beam Focus Blast Toxic Modest HP/SpA
Mr. Mime 2 110 Jaboca Berry Payback Wide Guard Quick Guard Power Split Lonely HP/Atk/SpD Regice 2 100 Chesto Berry Thunderbolt Icy Wind Ice Beam Rest Timid HP/Def/Spd
Mr. Mime 3 156 Lum Berry Fake Out Psychic Signal Beam Focus Blast Timid Spd/SpA Regice 3 70 Leftovers Charge Beam Ice Beam Amnesia Protect Bold HP/Def
Mr. Mime 4 110 Light Clay Light Screen Reflect Psychic Signal Beam Bold HP/Def Regice 4 70 Zoom Lens Thunder Blizzard Focus Blast Thunder Wave Impish HP/SpD
Muk 1 63 Black Sludge Poison Jab Stockpile Swallow Memento Brave Atk/Def Regigigas 1 60 BrightPowder Confuse Ray Double Team Drain Punch Payback Adamant HP/Atk
Muk 2 70 Toxic Plate Shadow Sneak Poison Jab Acid Armor Flamethrower Lonely Atk/SpA/SpD Regigigas 2 68 Zoom Lens Thunder Toxic Focus Blast Confuse Ray Quiet Spd/SpA
Muk 3 63 Zoom Lens Gunk Shot Payback Shadow Sneak Curse Brave HP Regigigas 3 60 Leftovers Confuse Ray Drain Punch Thunder Wave Rock Slide Adamant HP/Atk
Muk 4 70 Quick Claw Gunk Shot Shadow Sneak Brick Break Explosion Adamant HP/Atk Regigigas 4 60 Leftovers Wide Guard Double Team Confuse Ray Toxic Careful HP/Def
Pokémon Speed Item Move 1 Move 2 Move 3 Move 4 Nature EV spread Pokémon Speed Item Move 1 Move 2 Move 3 Move 4 Nature EV spread
Regirock 1 70 Leftovers Sandstorm Curse Rock Slide Drain Punch Careful HP/SpD Slaking 1 167 Chople Berry Earthquake Brick Break Rock Slide Encore Naive Atk/Spd
Regirock 2 70 Custap Berry Stone Edge Drain Punch Earthquake Explosion Adamant HP/Atk Slaking 2 167 Sitrus Berry Retaliate Night Slash Slack Off Amnesia Jolly Atk/Spd
Regirock 3 70 Rock Gem Ice Punch Rock Slide Drain Punch Earthquake Adamant HP/Atk Slaking 3 120 Choice Band Giga Impact Shadow Claw Hammer Arm Earthquake Adamant HP/Atk
Regirock 4 112 Sitrus Berry Rock Polish Rock Slide Superpower Explosion Jolly Atk/Spd Slaking 4 167 Life Orb Return Night Slash Gunk Shot Aerial Ace Jolly Atk/Spd
Registeel 1 70 Chesto Berry Curse Amnesia Iron Head Rest Careful HP/SpD Slowbro 1 50 Sitrus Berry Yawn Psychic Calm Mind Water Pulse Bold HP/Def
Registeel 2 112 King's Rock Rock Polish Earthquake Iron Head ThunderPunch Jolly Atk/Spd Slowbro 2 50 Quick Claw Flamethrower Ice Beam Slack Off Water Pulse Modest Def/SpA
Registeel 3 70 Leftovers Amnesia Iron Defense Charge Beam Flash Cannon Bold HP/SpD Slowbro 3 50 Leftovers Psychic Surf Slack Off Amnesia Bold HP/Def
Registeel 4 70 Leftovers Toxic Double Team Earthquake Protect Adamant HP/Atk Slowbro 4 45 Leftovers Psychic Surf Blizzard Trick Room Quiet HP/Def
Reuniclus 1 50 Sitrus Berry Psychic Energy Ball Recover Wonder Room Bold HP/Def/SpA Slowking 1 50 Sitrus Berry Psyshock Water Pulse Trick Room Heal Pulse Calm SpA/SpD
Reuniclus 2 45 King's Rock Rock Slide Explosion Gyro Ball Trick Room Brave Atk/Def/SpD Slowking 2 50 King's Rock Zen Headbutt Earthquake Swagger Psych Up Gentle Atk/SpD
Reuniclus 3 45 Colbur Berry Calm Mind Psychic Focus Blast Shadow Ball Quiet Def/SpA Slowking 3 50 Choice Specs Psychic Shadow Ball Signal Beam Focus Blast Modest SpA/SpD
Reuniclus 4 45 Toxic Orb Trick Psychic Focus Blast Recover Relaxed Def/SpD Slowking 4 45 Lum Berry Psychic Surf Ice Beam Trick Room Quiet HP/SpD
Rhyperior 1 54 Zoom Lens Payback Rock Blast Stone Edge Protect Brave HP/Atk/SpD Snorlax 1 50 Sitrus Berry Body Slam Wild Charge Counter Recycle Adamant Atk/Def
Rhyperior 2 92 Hard Stone Rock Wrecker Rock Polish Lonely Atk/Spd Snorlax 2 45 Sitrus Berry Body Slam Protect Earthquake Belly Drum Brave Atk/Def
Rhyperior 3 60 Focus Sash Horn Drill Avalanche Payback Counter Impish HP/Def Snorlax 3 50 Life Orb Double-Edge Earthquake Crunch Protect Adamant Atk/Def
Rhyperior 4 54 Wide Lens Rock Slide Hammer Arm Earthquake Protect Brave HP/Atk Snorlax 4 45 Sitrus Berry Belly Drum Double-Edge Earthquake Crunch Relaxed Def/SpD
Roserade 1 110 Big Root Toxic Leech Seed Protect Giga Drain Calm HP/Def Spiritomb 1 55 Sitrus Berry Sucker Punch Pain Split Toxic Grudge Calm HP/SpD
Roserade 2 142 Occa Berry Weather Ball Energy Ball Natural Gift Attract Modest Spd/SpA Spiritomb 2 49 Quick Claw Shadow Sneak Sucker Punch Will-O-Wisp Taunt Brave HP/Atk
Roserade 3 156 White Herb Leaf Storm Sludge Bomb Hyper Beam GrassWhistle Timid Spd/SpA Spiritomb 3 55 Leftovers Will-O-Wisp Shadow Sneak Swagger Psych Up Careful HP/SpD
Roserade 4 110 Black Sludge Toxic Protect Leech Seed Giga Drain Bold HP/Def Spiritomb 4 55 Custap Berry Will-O-Wisp Sucker Punch Substitute Pain Split Careful HP/SpD
Salamence 1 120 Yache Berry Roost Scary Face Dragon Tail Earthquake Naughty Atk/Def/SpD Staraptor 1 167 Focus Sash U-turn FeatherDance Quick Attack Endeavor Hasty Atk/Spd
Salamence 2 141 Expert Belt Dragon Claw Zen Headbutt Rock Slide Dragon Dance Lonely Atk/Spd/SpD Staraptor 2 *228 Choice Scarf Pursuit Close Combat Roost Final Gambit Adamant HP/Spd
Salamence 3 167 Yache Berry Draco Meteor Dragon Rush Earthquake Brick Break Jolly Atk/Spd Staraptor 3 152 Choice Band Close Combat Brave Bird U-turn Giga Impact Mild Atk/Spd
Salamence 4 167 Lum Berry Outrage Crunch Earthquake Zen Headbutt Jolly Atk/Spd Staraptor 4 167 Sitrus Berry Brave Bird Double-Edge Roost FeatherDance Jolly Atk/Spd
Samurott 1 90 Splash Plate Retaliate Razor Shell Assurance Encore Mild HP/Atk Starmie 1 183 Sitrus Berry Psychic Cosmic Power Recover Reflect Type Timid HP/Spd
Samurott 2 81 Zoom Lens Blizzard Giga Impact Detect Hydro Pump Quiet Atk/SpA Starmie 2 167 Mystic Water Protect Psychic Hydro Pump Rapid Spin Modest Spd/SpA
Samurott 3 90 Custap Berry Aerial Ace Waterfall X-Scissor Aqua Jet Adamant Atk/Def/SpD Starmie 3 183 Focus Sash Surf Psychic Power Gem Signal Beam Timid Spd/SpA
Samurott 4 90 Salac Berry Hydro Pump Ice Beam Grass Knot Protect Modest Def/SpA/SpD Starmie 4 183 King's Rock Surf Psychic Thunderbolt Ice Beam Timid Spd/SpA
Sawk 1 137 Black Belt Low Sweep Quick Guard Retaliate Taunt Naughty Atk/Spd Steelix 1 50 Chesto Berry Earthquake Rest Curse Stealth Rock Impish HP/SpD
Sawk 2 137 Focus Sash Earthquake Payback Endure Reversal Naughty Atk/Spd Steelix 2 50 Enigma Berry Crunch Curse Gyro Ball Screech Impish HP/Atk
Sawk 3 150 Expert Belt Close Combat Payback Low Sweep Earthquake Jolly Atk/Spd Steelix 3 45 Quick Claw Gyro Ball Earthquake Stone Edge Explosion Brave Atk/SpD
Sawk 4 137 Life Orb Close Combat Bulldoze Stone Edge Taunt Adamant Atk/Spd Steelix 4 *22 Iron Ball Gyro Ball Payback Swagger Curse Relaxed Atk/Def
Sceptile 1 189 Focus Sash Quick Attack Endeavor Detect Leaf Storm Timid Spd/SpA Suicune 1 105 Chesto Berry Calm Mind Surf Ice Beam Rest Bold HP/Def
Sceptile 2 189 Scope Lens Leaf Blade Night Slash Earthquake Swords Dance Hasty Atk/Spd Suicune 2 105 Sitrus Berry Hydro Pump Ice Beam Shadow Ball Mirror Coat Modest HP/SpA
Sceptile 3 189 White Herb Leaf Storm Dragon Pulse Energy Ball Detect Timid Spd/SpA Suicune 3 105 Leftovers Surf Blizzard Calm Mind Protect Bold HP/Def
Sceptile 4 140 Leftovers Leech Seed Endeavor Energy Ball Toxic Calm Def/SpD Suicune 4 150 Lum Berry Icy Wind Surf Blizzard Protect Timid Spd/SpA
Scizor 1 76 Occa Berry Metal Claw Night Slash Aerial Ace Swords Dance Brave HP/Def Swampert 1 72 Jaboca Berry Mirror Coat Counter Earthquake Roar Sassy Def/SpD
Scizor 2 85 Insect Plate Bullet Punch X-Scissor Feint Agility Naughty HP/Atk Swampert 2 80 Chesto Berry Waterfall Hammer Arm Rest Curse Careful HP/SpD
Scizor 3 76 Life Orb Swords Dance Bullet Punch Reversal U-turn Brave HP/Atk Swampert 3 80 Sitrus Berry Earthquake Avalanche Waterfall Stone Edge Adamant HP/Atk
Scizor 4 85 Occa Berry Bug Bite Aerial Ace Roost Bullet Punch Adamant HP/Atk Swampert 4 80 Chesto Berry Curse Rest Earthquake Waterfall Careful HP/SpD
Scrafty 1 78 Liechi Berry Fake Out Bulk Up Focus Punch Substitute Naughty HP/Atk Tangrowth 1 70 Big Root Leech Seed Ingrain Giga Drain Toxic Bold HP/Def/SpD
Scrafty 2 121 Coba Berry Hi Jump Kick Rock Slide Taunt Dragon Dance Jolly HP/Spd Tangrowth 2 102 Yache Berry Wring Out Tickle Power Whip Bulldoze Naughty Atk/Spd
Scrafty 3 78 Muscle Band Substitute Payback Hi Jump Kick Focus Punch Adamant HP/Atk Tangrowth 3 70 Heat Rock Sunny Day SolarBeam Synthesis Wring Out Modest Def/SpA
Scrafty 4 78 Leftovers Bulk Up Payback Protect Drain Punch Careful HP/SpD Tangrowth 4 70 Lax Incense Power Whip Earthquake Aerial Ace Brick Break Adamant Atk/Def
Seismitoad 1 94 Chesto Berry Round Rest Water Pulse Sludge Wave Rash Def/SpA/SpD Tauros 1 162 Liechi Berry Earthquake Rock Slide Endure Substitute Naughty Atk/Spd
Seismitoad 2 *42 Iron Ball Fling Rock Slide Poison Jab Earthquake Brave Atk/SpD Tauros 2 178 Expert Belt Zen Headbutt Wild Charge Swagger Giga Impact Jolly Atk/Spd
Seismitoad 3 138 Damp Rock Rain Dance Muddy Water Earth Power Sludge Bomb Timid Spd/SpA Tauros 3 178 Life Orb Double-Edge Earthquake Payback Giga Impact Jolly Atk/Spd
Seismitoad 4 138 Sitrus Berry Brick Break Poison Jab Dig Payback Jolly Atk/Spd Tauros 4 130 Sitrus Berry Toxic Protect Double Team Earthquake Careful HP/SpD
Serperior 1 169 Lum Berry Attract Leaf Tornado Dragon Tail Gastro Acid Jolly Def/Spd/SpD Tentacruel 1 167 Black Sludge Ice Beam Sludge Wave Hex Toxic Spikes Hasty Spd/SpA
Serperior 2 119 Sitrus Berry Leaf Tornado Hidden Power Mirror Coat Captivate Sassy HP/SpA/SpD Tentacruel 2 167 Mystic Water Rapid Spin Poison Jab Waterfall Swords Dance Hasty Atk/Spd
Serperior 3 133 BrightPowder Leaf Storm Substitute Hyper Beam Toxic Calm HP/Def/SpD Tentacruel 3 120 Focus Sash Hydro Pump Sludge Bomb Giga Drain Mirror Coat Modest HP/SpA
Serperior 4 165 Choice Specs Leaf Storm Modest Spd/SpA Tentacruel 4 120 Black Sludge Surf Toxic Venoshock Protect Bold HP/Def
Shiftry 1 *45 Iron Ball Fling Razor Leaf Brick Break Swords Dance Brave HP/Atk/SpD Terrakion 1 176 Expert Belt Close Combat Earthquake Stone Edge Aerial Ace Jolly Atk/Spd
Shiftry 2 132 Miracle Seed Fake Out Extrasensory SolarBeam Swagger Rash Spd/SpA Terrakion 2 *240 Choice Scarf Sacred Sword Earthquake Stone Edge Aerial Ace Adamant Atk/Spd
Shiftry 3 100 Heat Rock Sunny Day SolarBeam Dark Pulse Explosion Hardy Def/SpA Terrakion 3 176 Sitrus Berry Swords Dance Sacred Sword Earthquake Rock Slide Jolly Atk/Spd
Shiftry 4 100 Focus Sash Fake Out Sucker Punch Low Kick Protect Adamant Atk/Def Terrakion 4 176 King's Rock Bulldoze Rock Slide Earthquake Sacred Sword Jolly Atk/Spd
Shuckle 1 25 Binding Band Power Split Encore Gastro Acid Sand Tomb Careful HP/SpD Throh 1 65 Payapa Berry Protect Toxic Circle Throw Wide Guard Impish Atk/Def
Shuckle 2 25 Quick Claw Power Trick Encore Rock Slide Bug Bite Bold HP/Def Throh 2 58 Expert Belt Revenge Storm Throw Protect Seismic Toss Brave Atk/Def
Shuckle 3 22 Lax Incense Gyro Ball Double Team Substitute Power Trick Relaxed HP/Def Throh 3 65 Expert Belt Earthquake Storm Throw Payback Rock Slide Adamant Atk/Def/SpD
Shuckle 4 22 Leftovers Toxic Protect Sandstorm Wrap Relaxed HP/Def Throh 4 58 Flame Orb Protect Earthquake Storm Throw Payback Brave Atk/SpD
Skarmory 1 *0 Full Incense Spikes Stealth Rock Sky Drop Whirlwind Naive HP/Spd Thundurus 1 131 Chesto Berry Thunderbolt Protect Toxic Rest Bold HP/SpD
Skarmory 2 122 Cell Battery Brave Bird Steel Wing Swords Dance Roar Naughty HP/Spd Thundurus 2 179 Choice Band Thunderbolt Dark Pulse Focus Blast Grass Knot Timid Spd/SpA
Skarmory 3 *201 Choice Scarf Brave Bird Steel Wing Night Slash Rock Slide Jolly Atk/Spd Thundurus 3 179 Sitrus Berry Wild Charge U-turn Crunch Sky Drop Jolly Atk/Spd
Skarmory 4 90 Lum Berry Spikes Stealth Rock Whirlwind Toxic Careful HP/SpD Thundurus 4 179 Magnet Discharge Focus Blast Volt Switch Taunt Timid Spd/SpA
Skuntank 1 136 Shuca Berry Flamethrower Night Slash Incinerate Memento Naughty Atk/Spd Togekiss 1 132 Sitrus Berry Encore Thunder Wave Reflect Follow Me Calm HP/Spd
Skuntank 2 136 Poison Barb Pursuit Foul Play Poison Jab Taunt Adamant Atk/Spd Togekiss 2 132 Liechi Berry ExtremeSpeed Aerial Ace Psych Up Brick Break Naughty Atk/Spd
Skuntank 3 149 Life Orb Taunt Sucker Punch Foul Play Poison Jab Jolly Atk/Spd Togekiss 3 132 Wide Lens Thunder Wave Air Slash Heat Wave Water Pulse Modest Spd/SpA
Skuntank 4 93 Custap Berry Night Slash Poison Jab Fire Blast Explosion Brave Atk/Def/SpD Togekiss 4 100 Sitrus Berry Follow Me Thunder Wave Air Slash Encore Bold HP/SpD
Pokémon Speed Item Move 1 Move 2 Move 3 Move 4 Nature EV spread Pokémon Speed Item Move 1 Move 2 Move 3 Move 4 Nature EV spread
Tornadus 1 179 Life Orb Hurricane Grass Knot Focus Blast Dark Pulse Timid Spd/SpA Walrein 1 85 Chesto Berry Frost Breath Snore Stockpile Rest Calm Def/SpD
Tornadus 2 131 Leftovers Substitute Double Team Focus Blast Hurricane Modest HP/SpA Walrein 2 85 Metronome Ice Ball Earthquake Encore Curse Calm Atk/SpD
Tornadus 3 131 Chesto Berry Rest Air Slash Dark Pulse Focus Blast Bold HP/SpD Walrein 3 85 Leftovers Surf Blizzard Hail Signal Beam Modest HP/SpA
Tornadus 4 179 Damp Rock Hurricane Focus Blast Taunt Rain Dance Timid Spd/SpA Walrein 4 85 Lax Incense Sheer Cold Fissure Rest Sleep Talk Bold Def/SpD
Torterra 1 76 Binding Band Sand Tomb Seed Bomb Curse Synthesis Adamant HP/Atk Weavile 1 194 Razor Fang Fake Out Taunt Night Slash Fling Hasty Atk/Spd
Torterra 2 *177 Choice Scarf Rock Slide Earthquake Wood Hammer Tickle Jolly Atk/Spd Weavile 2 194 NeverMeltIce Ice Shard Ice Punch Torment Protect Jolly Atk/Spd
Torterra 3 76 Custap Berry Earthquake Crunch Seed Bomb Iron Head Adamant Atk/SpD Weavile 3 194 Focus Sash Fake Out Ice Punch Night Slash Protect Jolly Atk/Spd
Torterra 4 76 Leftovers Stockpile Leech Seed Earthquake Protect Hardy HP/SpD Weavile 4 194 Focus Sash Taunt Ice Punch Night Slash Fake Out Jolly Atk/Spd
Toxicroak 1 137 Dark Gem Fake Out Brick Break Sucker Punch Taunt Lonely Atk/Spd Weezing 1 80 Payapa Berry Pain Split Explosion Haze Will-O-Wisp Impish HP/Def
Toxicroak 2 137 Petaya Berry Focus Blast Sludge Bomb Substitute Protect Modest Spd/SpA Weezing 2 80 Poison Gem Sludge Bomb Fire Blast Stockpile Swallow Rash HP/SpA
Toxicroak 3 137 Focus Sash Sludge Bomb Focus Blast Shadow Ball Dark Pulse Modest Spd/SpA Weezing 3 80 Black Sludge Sludge Bomb Thunder Fire Blast Shadow Ball Modest HP/SpA
Toxicroak 4 137 Wide Lens Cross Chop Sucker Punch Gunk Shot Taunt Adamant Atk/Spd Weezing 4 80 Chesto Berry Toxic Will-O-Wisp Stockpile Rest Careful HP/SpD
Typhlosion 1 152 Passho Berry Flame Burst Flamethrower SolarBeam Sunny Day Rash Spd/SpA Whiscash 1 80 Chesto Berry Earthquake Tickle Amnesia Rest Careful Atk/SpD
Typhlosion 2 167 Wide Lens Inferno Focus Blast Extrasensory Will-O-Wisp Naive Spd/SpA Whiscash 2 80 Soft Sand Aqua Tail Earthquake Zen Headbutt Dragon Dance Adamant HP/Atk/Def
Typhlosion 3 *228 Choice Scarf Eruption Focus Blast Heat Wave Extrasensory Modest Spd/SpA Whiscash 3 80 Expert Belt Earth Power Surf Blizzard Protect Modest SpA/SpD
Typhlosion 4 152 Power Herb Extrasensory Lava Plume Bulldoze SolarBeam Modest Spd/SpA Whiscash 4 80 Leftovers Rest Sleep Talk Fissure Muddy Water Calm HP/Def/SpD
Tyranitar 1 *40 Iron Ball Rock Slide Stealth Rock Thunder Wave Fling Impish HP/SpD Yanmega 1 115 Cheri Berry Air Slash Bug Buzz Detect U-turn Rash SpA/SpD
Tyranitar 2 124 King's Rock Rock Slide Crunch Ice Beam Dragon Dance Hasty Atk/Spd Yanmega 2 115 Sitrus Berry Psychic Bug Buzz Swagger Substitute Modest HP/SpA
Tyranitar 3 124 Chople Berry Stone Edge Crunch Earthquake Dragon Dance Jolly Atk/Spd Yanmega 3 147 Lum Berry Silver Wind Air Slash Detect Giga Drain Modest Spd/SpA
Tyranitar 4 72 Focus Sash Rock Slide Earthquake Superpower Dragon Tail Brave HP/Atk Yanmega 4 147 King's Rock Bug Buzz Air Slash Detect Shadow Ball Modest Spd/SpA
Umbreon 1 85 Leftovers Confuse Ray Payback Curse Moonlight Impish HP/Def Zapdos 1 167 Magnet Thunderbolt Signal Beam Air Cutter AncientPower Timid Spd/SpA
Umbreon 2 85 Chople Berry Payback Moonlight Stored Power Work Up Careful HP/Atk Zapdos 2 120 BrightPowder Charge Beam Heat Wave Double Team Roost Bold HP/SpD
Umbreon 3 85 Sitrus Berry Faint Attack Swagger Psych Up Screech Impish HP/Def Zapdos 3 167 Petaya Berry Thunder Light Screen Rain Dance Drill Peck Naive Spd/SpA
Umbreon 4 85 Chesto Berry Curse Trump Card Payback Rest Careful HP/Def Zapdos 4 167 Lum Berry Thunderbolt Volt Switch Heat Wave Detect Timid Spd/SpA
Unfezant 1 124 Enigma Berry Aerial Ace U-turn Razor Wind Tailwind Jolly HP/Atk/Def Zebstrika 1 136 Electric Gem Swagger Volt Switch Wild Charge Pursuit Naughty HP/Atk
Unfezant 2 159 Power Herb Giga Impact Quick Attack Hypnosis Sky Attack Jolly Atk/Spd Zebstrika 2 184 Magnet Discharge Thunder Wave Thunder Rain Dance Timid Spd/SpA
Unfezant 3 159 Power Herb Sky Attack Return Detect U-turn Jolly Atk/Spd Zebstrika 3 184 Air Balloon Flame Charge Toxic Wild Charge Volt Switch Jolly Atk/Spd
Unfezant 4 113 BrightPowder Detect FeatherDance Toxic Fly Impish HP/SpD Zebstrika 4 184 Focus Sash Me First Wild Charge Thunder Wave Volt Switch Jolly Atk/Spd
Ursaring 1 75 Chesto Berry Thrash Crunch Rest Counter Adamant Atk/Def/SpD Zoroark 1 172 Focus Sash Night Slash Shadow Claw Taunt Counter Naive Atk/Spd
Ursaring 2 117 Toxic Orb Facade Hammer Arm Scary Face Yawn Jolly Atk/Spd Zoroark 2 172 Expert Belt Grass Knot Shadow Ball Flamethrower Nasty Plot Jolly Spd/SpA
Ursaring 3 75 Toxic Orb Facade Superpower Crunch Protect Adamant HP/Atk Zoroark 3 172 Sitrus Berry Swords Dance Night Slash U-turn Sucker Punch Jolly Atk/Spd
Ursaring 4 75 Quick Claw Return Cross Chop Earthquake Aerial Ace Adamant HP/Atk Zoroark 4 172 Focus Band Protect Counter Dark Pulse Focus Blast Timid Spd/SpA
Vanilluxe 1 99 NeverMeltIce Ice Beam Frost Breath Mirror Coat Icy Wind Calm HP/SpA/SpD
Vanilluxe 2 99 Occa Berry Avalanche Ice Shard Natural Gift Giga Impact Lonely HP/Atk
Vanilluxe 3 99 Leftovers Hail Blizzard Flash Cannon Sheer Cold Modest HP/SpA
Vanilluxe 4 99 Sitrus Berry Taunt Ice Beam Acid Armor Mirror Coat Calm HP/SpD
Vaporeon 1 76 Quick Claw Wish Surf Helping Hand Shadow Ball Quiet Def/SpA
Vaporeon 2 85 Leftovers Ice Beam Hydro Pump Acid Armor Aqua Ring Modest Def/SpA
Vaporeon 3 85 Leftovers Muddy Water Blizzard Aqua Ring Yawn Modest HP/SpA
Vaporeon 4 85 Expert Belt Surf Ice Beam Shadow Ball Signal Beam Modest HP/SpA
Venusaur 1 100 Big Root Leech Seed Toxic Synthesis Ingrain Calm HP/SpD
Venusaur 2 90 Miracle Seed Roar Venoshock Power Whip Earthquake Brave HP/Atk/Def
Venusaur 3 145 Salac Berry Energy Ball Sludge Bomb Grass Knot Protect Timid Spd/SpA
Venusaur 4 100 Black Sludge Leech Seed Substitute Sludge Bomb Protect Bold HP/SpD
Vespiquen 1 54 Quick Claw Defend Order Toxic Protect Heal Order Sassy HP/Def/SpD
Vespiquen 2 54 Insect Plate Attack Order Power Gem Captivate Confuse Ray Quiet HP/SpA
Vespiquen 3 60 Sitrus Berry Attack Order Defend Order Roost Confuse Ray Impish HP/Def/SpD
Vespiquen 4 54 Custap Berry Attack Order U-turn Aerial Ace Destiny Bond Brave HP/Atk
Victreebel 1 81 Payapa Berry Leaf Tornado Stockpile Swallow Gastro Acid Quiet SpA/SpD
Victreebel 2 122 Grass Gem Leaf Storm Sleep Powder Stockpile Encore Rash Spd/SpA
Victreebel 3 122 Focus Sash Sunny Day SolarBeam Sludge Bomb Weather Ball Modest Spd/SpA
Victreebel 4 122 Life Orb Weather Ball SolarBeam Sludge Bomb Gastro Acid Modest Spd/SpA
Vileplume 1 102 Persim Berry Petal Dance Stun Spore Teeter Dance Moonlight Calm Spd/SpD
Vileplume 2 70 Power Herb SolarBeam Sludge Bomb Synthesis Double Team Modest HP/SpA
Vileplume 3 70 Big Root Double Team Ingrain Toxic Giga Drain Modest HP/SpA
Vileplume 4 102 Lum Berry Giga Drain SolarBeam Teeter Dance Sludge Bomb Modest Spd/SpA
Virizion 1 176 Salac Berry Sacred Sword Leaf Blade Taunt Stone Edge Jolly Atk/Spd
Virizion 2 176 Sitrus Berry Energy Ball Focus Blast Calm Mind Toxic Timid Def/Spd
Virizion 3 176 Coba Berry Leaf Blade Stone Edge Sacred Sword Protect Jolly Atk/Spd
Virizion 4 128 Chesto Berry Leaf Blade Swords Dance Sacred Sword Rest Impish HP/Def
Volcarona 1 152 Power Herb Fire Spin Heat Wave SolarBeam Whirlwind Modest HP/Spd
Volcarona 2 167 Lum Berry Bug Buzz Flamethrower Protect Calm Mind Timid Spd/SpA
Volcarona 3 120 White Herb Overheat Quiver Dance Bug Buzz Protect Bold HP/Def
Volcarona 4 120 Leftovers Hurricane Quiver Dance Bug Buzz Heat Wave Bold HP/Def
Wailord 1 72 Chesto Berry Waterfall Heavy Slam Curse Rest Brave Atk/Def/SpD
Wailord 2 123 Quick Claw Water Spout Rest Sleep Talk Ice Beam Timid Spd/SpA
Wailord 3 80 Leftovers Waterfall Avalanche Aqua Ring Curse Careful Def/SpD
Wailord 4 80 Zoom Lens Hydro Pump Blizzard Fissure Hyper Beam Modest HP/SpA



oh yeah, nice to see the king´s not dead, only hiding :p

I´ve also used cune, but I felt that it wears the all-time favourite "Yo, foe, why don´t ya critical me?" target all over its body...just like snorlax did in DP and registeel does everywhere...you were accustomed to "there´s no CHs in the game" while using drapion for thousands of battles, I think you won´t like the number of CHs you´ll face with that offensive team

for example I lost to scarf chomp because it CHed cune on the switch in (I think it does 150-177 dmg / 207 HP = 72-85%)...well, the subway is not as easy as you might think, it always finds a way

good luck, hopefully we´ll see a record post from you soon, because the list feels incomplete without your name there


oh, by the way, I´ve decided to change something in my doubles team, but stayed in the hitmon family, I remembered having two hitmontops for the last years´ VGC so I transferred them (one is technitop with detect, second intimidate with the same set as lee), currently trying the intimidate one, hopefully it will help me identify scarf sets/set# in general with intimidate...it has 118 speed right now because I forgot to reEV in soulsilver and only had 22 berries to get rid of HP EVs in black...now have to harvest some more in the DW which will take a few days
 
fluffyflyingpig said:
Actually, I am surprised no one has discussed the problem Drapion has against taunt yet. You are forced to use Taunt with whimsicott on anything that could use taunt back, or taunt will force you to kill the crippled setup pokemon before your are setup. Suicide leads are the biggest threat to Drapion's setup, since the second pokemon out will eventually be the wrong matchup and kill an unboosted drapion. Second pokemon out with taunt can lead to a loss as well, if you have bad enough luck with acupressure. I'd imagine it's even worse if you aren't taunt->trickscarfing like the guy with the moody Bibarell was. And as an aside, why is crunch the first move on Drapion instead of acupressure? If acupressure was first you could just spam 'A' without moving the dpad to the to the top right.
Click to expand...

In situations where opponents starter has had Taunt (mod Tornadus & Thundurus) I've still managed to get one (or sometimes even two) crippling move through with Whimsicott, which has always been enough to take down the starter with Bibarel or Drapion while still keeping Whimsicott alive for the opponents next pokemon. Suicide leads are a problem like you said (I've not had the pleasure of encountering Head Smash Rampardos as a lead yet), and the most common one of them for me has been Head Smash Archeops (one Charm switch to Bibarel and Protect/Sub until Struggle/Defeatist activates). Taunt on second pokemon has not been any harm, since almost always when I use Drapion I've been able to use 21 Acupressures before the 2nd pokemon comes out.

And @Zacchaeus Rest on Drapion is essential, Taunt really isn't.
 
Zacchaeus said:
I was wondering where you were. I looked and saw "Last post - Jumpman16" and said to myself "Shit." I pretty much followed your progress through DPP with Drapion but never took enough initiative of myself, and then I picked it up and headed down to the Subway with my own Drapion team for BW and it's not good in Subway. DragonRider and I planned it thoroughly, I tried different leads and different backup sweepers for hundreds of hours to no avail. (I never did use 2 cripple Pokés though)
Click to expand...

The only problem I had/have with Drapion was/is killing some variants of Ferrothorn and Glaceon and Scrafty when not at +6 attack (and even sometimes when they are). I don't fault Drapion for the trick nerf, especially with the blessing of Sub+Acu now. Whirlwind and Taunt weren't and have simply not been an issue (I keep changing tenses to reference my TDII that had Garchomp like yours). Drapion OHKOs like half of them at +6, and if not, likely dodges the phaze attempt. At what point in your setup were you having trouble with those? Lead Taunt was still annoying if only because Tricking into it prompted a switch which facilitated a double switch on your part, but again, not Drapion's fault.

And when you mentioned Acupressure itself being luck-based...please. Drapion almost never has to set up on ground moves, which means the stuff it does have to set up is a 3HKO at worst against a poke that's probably paralyzed and without perfect accuracy via Flash. "Acupressure Drapion is terrible this time around" is about the richest thing I've ever seen in these threads, to be honest, given Drapion's ability to Acupressure behind a Sub now.

Well I guess my biggest problem was that I used a backup sweeper instead of 2 cripple Pokés but here is my lead and Drapion

Uxie - Choice Scarf
Timid - Levitate
244 HP 100 Def 100 SpD 60 Spe
Flash
Memento
Thunder Wave
Trick

And the more successful Uxie

Uxie - Ring Target
Bold - Levitate
252 HP 68 Def 188 SpD
Flash
Memento
Thunder Wave
Trick

And my Drapion

Drapion - Black Sludge
Careful - Battle Armor
252 SpD 124 HP 68 Def 52 Atk 12 Spe
Acupressure
Substitute
Taunt
Crunch

In hindsight, Black Sludge + Substitute number HP with max defenses was probably better in theory than in practice, because my Drapion becomes bulkier after boosting but has less bulk before boosting. And I didn't for a second consider Rest because in my experience all the Subway does is spam Taunt and Roar and Whirlwind which often ruin Drapion's chances of sweeping
Click to expand...

Well your first problem is the EV spread—it's honestly quite a mess. First, 12 Speed EVs is pointless...you're aiming to speed tie with Ursaring 2? 4 Spe EVs puts it at 116, where it can beat all the 0 investment neutral 95 base Speed pokes and the rogue Brave Cobalion. Second, Drapion definitely wishes it could kill things faster, but it really is hardly ever more than an issue of speed—504 EVs in Defenses is the most efficient way to ensure Drapion can win. Take out the attack EVs—I tried the same 121 Attack in Adamant0 Atk EVs Drapion before switching to Careful when I first made the team, and have hardly missed the extra attack.

But most importantly, there's little reason not to allocate 252 HP for the simple fact that Drapion can boost its Defenses (or have foe pokemon's Attack stats lowered) but cannot boost its HP. It's just not as efficient as max HP, I theorymonned the hell out of this two years ago and am satisfied with what I came up with. You're even using Memento, which should give you less concern about Special Attacks than I had in Gen IV, so what is the need for 252 SpD EVs Careful? It's total overkill with a Memento lead.

I'll post more later but wanted to get this down for now.
 
I get what you're saying and I guess my set just sounded great to me in theory and I couldn't find anything wrong with it in practice that would be solved by a different EV spread or Rest. And not to sound arrogant or anything, but every time I talk about a team like this to somebody all that everyone seems to say is "The thing that you had a problem with never occurred to my team". I lost to Whirlwind/Roar a good amount of times after having used Memento. After I use Memento, the computer would sometimes just randomly switch and Drapion can't set up like that. I still had some problems with some special attackers with my EV spread. And I really don't see how it could work without Taunt because the Subway spams Encore and Taunt and Destiny Bond and that fun stuff like nobody's business.

Long story short: With the smarter AI and introductions of things like Justified, Scrafty, Bisharp, and Cobalion along with the other problems I had, it seemed like there was everything wrong with Drapion, not with what I was doing particularly.

But just for you Jumpman, I see a 2366 generation 4 record, and no generation 5 record, (and I understand that you might have time constraints, but) I can't help but think that generation 5 Drapion isn't as good as generation 4

Back to my game: Lost again to a Draco Meteor miss. Even though it's a huge loss of power, I might clone my Latios and try one with Dragon Pulse

Edit @ Peterko: I tried making a Magneton and my game froze each time so I gave up but switching to Heatran seems loads better than Magnezone so I doubt Magneton is that much better to fill that gap
 
T.L. said:
In situations where opponents starter has had Taunt (mod Tornadus & Thundurus) I've still managed to get one (or sometimes even two) crippling move through with Whimsicott, which has always been enough to take down the starter with Bibarel or Drapion while still keeping Whimsicott alive for the opponents next pokemon. Suicide leads are a problem like you said (I've not had the pleasure of encountering Head Smash Rampardos as a lead yet), and the most common one of them for me has been Head Smash Archeops (one Charm switch to Bibarel and Protect/Sub until Struggle/Defeatist activates). Taunt on second pokemon has not been any harm, since almost always when I use Drapion I've been able to use 21 Acupressures before the 2nd pokemon comes out.

And @Zacchaeus Rest on Drapion is essential, Taunt really isn't.
Click to expand...

Hmm. To clarify, my problem was never to take down the starter with taunt, but it was that the taunter forced drapion to kill it before drapion set up . I usually let Whimsicott die though, and didn't have the luxury of a second attacking pokemon. Keeping something else alive would've probably helped, but I tended to forget which pokemon had taunt. I vaguely remember some issues with special attackers if I couldn't get enough Memento hits in too, but it has been a while. Is Octillary out yet? That seems like fun.

Thanks for the list perterko! THat will be really useful for everyone. Hitmontop huh? Interesting.

I am also not really sold on Latios's filler moveslots. Psy-whatever is useful mostly for starter teams and ice teams, kinda. Tbolt is very occasionally seen against fishermen. Grass knot let me down recently by not killing a hippo. I really wish Latios got flamethower. Meh.
 
yep that curse chesto hippo4 survives the grass knot with like 15% from my exp, but there´s no way to OHKO that one with latios (lol dmg calc says GK does max 214 damage and hippo has 215 HP how awesome)...also I think GK is more useful against fishermen, it still hits gyarados very hard...but fishermen are not really a problem

yeah all of us latios users wish it knew flamethrower, but that would be too much

OK the intimidate usefulness I expected...isn´t there, as the pokémon are intimidated in the order they were sent in, the right one in front of you always first...so this mechanics was changed and speed doesn´t matter in this case

well at least it helps a bit against legendary teams with pressure, I was able to identify articuno/zapdos lead sets...also uses up white herbs, although I was never worried about those lol

I wish intimidate would help me survive stuff with latios, I survive an absol sucker punch now, bisharp may get an attack boost though, one stupid honchkrow has to be superboss cool and wear blackglasses which still lets him have a 37,5% chance to OHKO latios and another one hold a LO for a 87,5% chance to OHKO...then I thought I would live through flings, shiftry loled at me (still has a 87,5% chance), on the other hand it helps against those spiritombs and dusknoirs with their priority attacks (I think one tomb had a chance to OHKO latios)...but then of course, I dislike the 17% lower damage output than lee, missing some crucial OHKOs I was used to with it

it´s team support instead of more speed and power, hmm

I´ll see how far I can get, only at 56 now and kind of don´t feel like playing much at the moment, maybe it´s the sucky weather around here or something, which is only good for sleeping (it has been raining for days)

hey Zacchaeus, when you were creating dragmag, did you consider an eviolite magneton? it gets awesome defenses that way and is faster than zone, while still hitting very hard

eviolite magneton modest max spA/speed: 126/x/172/189/135/122
magnezone lefties modest max spA/speed: 146/x/135/200/110/112

I´d go with a more defensive spread with such a magneton though...I know it´s not porygon2, but the typing makes up for it (maybe I´d even try subrest with 2 attacks or something)...just an idea I´m throwing out there
 
Zacchaeus said:
I get what you're saying and I guess my set just sounded great to me in theory and I couldn't find anything wrong with it in practice that would be solved by a different EV spread or Rest. And not to sound arrogant or anything, but every time I talk about a team like this to somebody all that everyone seems to say is "The thing that you had a problem with never occurred to my team". I lost to Whirlwind/Roar a good amount of times after having used Memento. After I use Memento, the computer would sometimes just randomly switch and Drapion can't set up like that. I still had some problems with some special attackers with my EV spread. And I really don't see how it could work without Taunt because the Subway spams Encore and Taunt and Destiny Bond and that fun stuff like nobody's business.
Click to expand...

Well I've played over 500 matches with my current team (+previous teams) in the Sub now and I've never seen the opponent to switch randomly.

Rest is essential because sometimes you can't cripple your opponent enough for Drapion to setup right away (some EQ users and such or if it's a special attacker you are facing sometimes Memento won't be enough) but you can stall those moves out with Rest and then proceed to setup. Rest would probably help against those special attackers you say you still had problems with. Seems like with your set you would have to get lucky to get the right boosts from Acupressure even if you have managed to lower your opponents accuracy a bit since you don't have any recovery move. With Rest however I'm ~always getting 21 Acupressures done. And like I said earlier, if the Taunt user is opponents starter, kill it. If it is not, then it should not matter since you should have already managed to setup. And I usually don't use Memento if I haven't lost/sacrificed one pokemon before that (usually Bibarel) so that when I setup my opponent doesn't even have the opportunity to use WW/Roar if they happen to carry one.

And how exactly does Destiny Bond prevent you from setupping or sweeping (since there are no Destiny Bond users @Quick Claw)?


EDIT:
Zacchaeus said:
Long story short: With the smarter AI and introductions of things like Justified, Scrafty, Bisharp, and Cobalion along with the other problems I had, it seemed like there was everything wrong with Drapion, not with what I was doing particularly.
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And how exactly would Scrafty and Bisharp be of any trouble?
 
Hi I feel like taking a break from work to post.

I haven't done 500+ battles with Drapion yet, but I'm pretty sure I have done 500+ battles with Memento Uxie/Whimisicott by now, and I too have never seen the opponent switch "randomly". From what I gather, I can only make the guess that Zacchaeus is using Trick Scarf and then Memento. If opponent is tricked into a non-attacking move, it WILL switch eventually, not necessarily the turn after, so I am guessing that opponent switched after memento has occurred because it was locked into a non-damaging move. So, should never ever memento if opponent has been accidentally or intentionally tricked into a non-damaging move, until after the opponent actually switches.

I don't really want to comment too much, but I think (and of course feel free to correct if I'm wrong, since it's just what I was thinking) the main problem was that Zacchaeus wasn't running a taunt lead, so will have trouble with Bisharp leads because of taunt and defiant, and Scrafty leads because all of them carry a non-attacking move (so if Uxie tricks, they might switch, but if Uxie locks itself into Twave, Scrafty might stat up and hit back hard and cause trouble). Of course all problems solved with Taunt lead followed by Uxie trick locking the dark pokemon into a dark move for Drapion to set up on.

Also, yeah, Moody Octillery is certainly available. If I had the time I would want to try that thing out too.
 
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