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What aren't we writing about? (Pokemon unfit for OU Analyses)

Majora_younglink said:
You're assuming rain which dramatically changes everything. All of mine were with neutral weather such as sand.
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Okay, so Drizzle is apparently banned in your world. Based on that logic, Doryuuzu is a terrible sweeper because on paper, "natural weather" such as rain, hail, and sun neuter it greatly.
Majora_younglink said:
-Skarmory if in the rain would just phaze you out meaning all your work was for nada.
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That's like saying that Chomp is a shitty Pokemon because Skarm can check it. Garchomp has a 20% chance of beating Skarmory thanks to Sand Veil, but even with that in mind, +2 Fire Fangs will eventually break Skarmory - akin to Whiscash and its rain-boosted Waterfalls.
Majora_younglink said:
-That's just one set is the thing, the other Lucario sets totally screw you over in one way or another whether it be amazingly strong moves or Balloon.
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Ok, that's a very funny assumption, especially once you consider that Lucario isn't one of OU's most prominent threats anymore. +1 Waterfalls under rain WILL hurt and KOing Whiscash is out of the question if Luke is running Air Balloon > LO.
Majora_younglink said:
It was a hyperbole. The actual fact about it is that every team will have a Pokemon above base 100 in one shape or another or will have a Pokemon that walls Whiscash.
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Who cares if Whiscash gets outpaced at +1? The point of boosting + HydroRest is to attain as many boosts as possible before attempting a sweep, so it's very safe to assume that Whiscash will be at +2/+3 by the time that something faster switches in for a revenge kill. That said, it's pretty difficult to "wall" any rain sweeper, especially considering that the one in question can't be status'd. Nattorei and the uncommon Celebi spring to mind as Whiscash's most reliable counters, and they can be handled by something as simple as CB Heracross.
Majora_younglink said:
-Bronzong isn't meant to kill it by itself. Set up Reflect or Trick Room and switch out to an appropriate pokemon. Point is it screws you over.
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If Whiscash can net MORE boosts over the course of a couple of turns, what's the point of even sending Bronzong in? Reflect won't last for very long and neither will TR - and in both cases, Whiscash can just Rest stall until the duration of either move is over.
Majora_younglink said:
-How am I underestimating it? It's a fact of what it will HAVE to do. If a CB Scizor hits it with a U-Turn it will be at 33% HP max meaning it will be an easy KO for any other pokemon if it does not Rest. This makes it predictable and easy to work around.
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You're not getting the point: Scizor's U-turn may do a shitton of damage, but a +1 Waterfall from Whiscash under rain OHKOes anyway, so there's no real purpose to even considering that Scizor can check Whiscash.

-Oh man, talking about what someone peaks at like it matters in judging an analysis. I sure do love epeen contests.
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The viability of a Pokemon, or Pokemon set for that matter, is greatly influenced by how much success the average player can get from using it. For example, Atticus's success with DDChesto Kindgra really helped the analylsis get pushed through qc as fast as it did.

@Krasnopesky
The bulkier spread is hands down better lol. Netting a KO or two on a few unsuspecting Pokemon is fun and all, but if Whiscash were to get an analysis for OU, said surprise factor would be gone. The reason why Lapras can pull off DD + HydroRest effectively is simply the utilization of Lapras's bulk. 130/80/95 defenses are fan-fucking-tastic, but more importantly, they give Lapras the chance to net multiple boosts so that it can muscle past the physically bulky Pokemon in OU. Whiscash's bulk, while not as impressive as Lapras's, is certainly usable, and should be optimized to take advantage of Whiscash's superior defensive typing (though Latios still gives a huge "FUCK YOU" to Whiscash anyway with a Specs DM, no matter how much investment you give it).
 
I like how you pick and choose between two posts. That's an amazing way to respond.

-Weather wars work both ways. Assuming only with rain means that it becomes totally worthless if rain gets take out of the picture. If something only works in a specific situation then it's no good. See FEAR Aron. It might have a niche function but overall it's just not OU material.
Anyways comparing something that has an untouchable speed tier in the sand and SD to Whiscash is sort of funny. It's almost akin to comparing Kingdra to Excadrill.

-Actually it isn't. Close Combat+ESpeed will KO Whiscash. The other Lucario sets just straight up OHKO it or come damn close, see choice band/specs. That's before even factoring in that hazards like spikes make sure it dies to any hit. The whole fact was to discredit that it can be set up on. I think I have done so.

-I made a point to say Skarmroy can't be set up on. That's the whole friggin point of now two posts.

-Oh, I guess I can assume I always get several boosts with any Pokemon like Lucario, Salamence, or Scrafty no matter what and they won't ever switch in things. Good to hear.

-You don't switch in Bronzong in. The whole point from the beginning was to point out how Bronzong is not set up fodder. I'm not sure how it's not obvious considering the context of now two posts over discrediting what is not set up fodder. Also Whiscash will not be able to Rest stall on what you send in because if you switch it in then you must have a good reason you switched it in, whether it be because of walling or because it can OHKO.
 
Majora_younglink said:
I like how you pick and choose between two posts. That's an amazing way to respond.
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It should be fairly obvious that the things that I didn't and am not quoting have either already been addressed or are just points that I agree with. I'm not going to clusterfuck any of posts with "I agree"'s, or "I agree with..."'s.
Majora_younglink said:
-Weather wars work both ways. Assuming only with rain means that it becomes totally worthless if rain gets take out of the picture. If something only works in a specific situation then it's no good. See FEAR Aron. It might have a niche function but overall it's just not OU material.
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Not the point. You're arguing that something as weather-reliant as Whiscash doesn't deserve an analysis because it relies on rain to net multiple boosts. I was merely dismissing that by using another common weather-reliant Pokemon as an example.
Majora_younglink said:
Anyways comparing something that has an untouchable speed tier in the sand and SD to Whiscash is sort of funny. It's almost akin to comparing Kingdra to Excadrill.
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HydroRest is just as reliant on rain as Sand Rush is to sandstorm. Speed isn't the most important thing to consider when both Pokemon are crippled severely by a simple change in weather.
Majora_younglink said:
-Actually it isn't. Close Combat+ESpeed will KO Whiscash. The other Lucario sets just straight up OHKO it or come damn close, see choice band/specs. That's before even factoring in that hazards like spikes make sure it dies to any hit. The whole fact was to discredit that it can be set up on. I think I have done so.
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Oh, I honestly didn't see the asterisk beside Lucario in his post. Statement retracted.
Majora_younglink said:
-Oh, I guess I can assume I always get several boosts with any Pokemon like Lucario, Salamence, or Scrafty no matter what and they won't ever switch in things. Good to hear.
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No, because none of those Pokemon have 110/73/71 defenses, Ground/Water typing, or reliable (full) healing in the form in Hydration.
Majora_younglink said:
-I made a point to say Skarmroy can't be set up on. That's the whole friggin point of now two posts.
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No one ever mentioned that Skarmory is setup fodder. In fact, the point being made was that Skarmory isn't able to check Whiscash MULTIPLE times because it will eventually get worn down by boosted Waterfalls, and still has a solid chance of losing to luck.
Majora_younglink said:
-You don't switch in Bronzong in. The whole point from the beginning was to point out how Bronzong is not set up fodder. I'm not sure how it's not obvious considering the context of now two posts over discrediting what is not set up fodder.
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That wasn't my point, bro. Bronzong CAN be setup on if it chooses to stay in and get Reflect or Trick Room up.
Majora_younglink said:
Also Whiscash will not be able to Rest stall on what you send in because if you switch it in then you must have a good reason you switched it in, whether it be because of walling or because it can OHKO.
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Yeah, because Bronzong using Reflect totally means that the switch-in would've been able to threaten Whiscash initially. (lol the only common Trick Room "sweeper" capable of OHKOing Whiscash is Exeggutor).

Also keep in mind that everything you've been saying about Whiscash can be applied to Lapras as well.
 
Actually in his initial post he listed it as a Pokemon Whiscash could set up on. That's the whole reason I keep mentioning why it isn't.

As for the Brozong thing and setting up Reflect/TR it actually does mean it will. If you switch in the Pokemon it's for a dang good reason, the thing being set up just means it will be able to do so much more reliably and with a lot less prediction.

doomvendingmachine said:
Then I think the real question here is not whether whiscash deserves an analysis but why lapras has one.
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This. Pretty hard to be honest. I wasn't around to debunk Lapras but I would have given the exact same argument to it if not harder.
 
One of Whiscash's main strengths is its ability to switch in on most defensive pokemon without being threatened in anyway (exceptions include Ferrothorn and Gyarados), boost at least once and subsequently defeat many powerful and established OU pokemon who come in to force it out. Yes there are a few pokemon that can come in and force Whiscash out but how many sweepers can switch in freely without fear of damage or status like Whiscash can? The answer is not many or is reduced to using lum berry in combination with a 50% healing move, which means the sweeper can only switch into status once. Whiscash can switch in again and again and still threaten to sweep or come out with full health. It does have its checks/counters but most pokemon do so and those that don't are usually sent packing to ubers.

Chillarmy said:
@Krasnopesky
The bulkier spread is hands down better lol. Netting a KO or two on a few unsuspecting Pokemon is fun and all, but if Whiscash were to get an analysis for OU, said surprise factor would be gone. The reason why Lapras can pull off DD + HydroRest effectively is simply the utilization of Lapras's bulk. 130/80/95 defenses are fan-fucking-tastic, but more importantly, they give Lapras the chance to net multiple boosts so that it can muscle past the physically bulky Pokemon in OU. Whiscash's bulk, while not as impressive as Lapras's, is certainly usable, and should be optimized to take advantage of Whiscash's superior defensive typing (though Latios still gives a huge "FUCK YOU" to Whiscash anyway with a Specs DM, no matter how much investment you give it).
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I have to be honest in saying that I have had a lot more success with the Bulkier spread personally, depending upon peoples thoughts on the most efficient EVs for the set it will be changed. Having mixed EVs through HP and defence actually provides the most bulk. From memory 92HP - 20 Def - 36 SpDef is the bulkiest you can make it with the 148 remaining EVs.

Yeah Latios does do that, but being able to take Latios' Specs DM is not a feet many non steel pokemon can claim. The standard DDance Lapras set itself is destroyed by a DM.

Majora_younglink said:
Actually in his initial post he listed it as a Pokemon Whiscash could set up on.
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I have already corrected the 'set up on' issue to note that Whiscash does not set up on all of those pokemon, but can set up on some and kill all of them most of the time.

doomvendingmachine said:
Then I think the real question here is not whether whiscash deserves an analysis but why lapras has one.
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I have listed many reasons why Whiscash deserves an analysis and I have not intended to put into question why Lapras has one. All I have to say is that I have used them both extensively and had great success with both, but moreso with Whiscash. So please just consider Whiscash as deserving an analysis rather then focusing on a similar yet obviously different pokemon.
 
Majora_younglink said:
-How am I underestimating it? It's a fact of what it will HAVE to do. If a CB Scizor hits it with a U-Turn it will be at 33% HP max meaning it will be an easy KO for any other pokemon if it does not Rest. This makes it predictable and easy to work around.

That really doesn't matter since

1. if it doesn't rest its going for an OHKO. If it does rest the other pokemon is like uhhhh

2. +1 waterfall OHKOs

-It has to DD is the thing. The whole point is they're on the field at the same time and he claimed Skarm is set up fodder. It isn't.

yeah, it just dies

-You're lost man. My whole point is he keeps making big assumptions like a pokemon is switching in when his initial point was it can set up all over it every time. Pointing out this is a weather gen is dumb and not even an argument I was making. I was more stating to the fact he keeps making huge assumptions and switching in that'd make no sense. (No one sends in a shaky check in freely.)

you can assume there is rain the same way you can assume there is sand for excadrill derp.


-Why is Lucario using Leftovers? More to the point the fact it has to attack or be 2HKO'd with an attack followed by a priority attack is enough to make it NOT set up fodder which was the whole point.

because i was lazy, get over it.

fodder: Noun: Food, esp. dried hay or feed, for cattle and other livestock

imo if it gets OHKO'd its food.

-You don't switch in Bronzong nor should you unless you're sure an EQ is coming. He stated it could set up on it. I proved it couldn't set up on Bronzong.

It can, I just demonstrated it didn't have to. If it wanted to it can get to +3/+4 and then rest out the TR/Reflect.

-Oh man, talking about what someone peaks at like it matters in judging an analysis. I sure do love epeen contests.

iirc a set is only good if it can get you a lot of wins, which is demonstrated here
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On a separate note, I would like to do an Analysis on Victreebel. He is very similar to Venusaur in his role, but has a few benefits that give him a niche in sun teams.

Here is a brief analysis of the pros and cons of using victreebel over venusaur

(PROS)
- Access to Weather Ball. This is HUGE, as it is not only stronger than HP Fire, but also lets you use another HP (rock).
- Access to Sucker Punch. If it growth setups on something, then the weather is changed, Victreebel can retain speed in sucker punch. And its not weak either: 76 neutral nature OHKOs 4/0 Thundurus after Stealth Rock.
- Better mixed attacking stats. 105/100 is better than venusaur's 82/100.
- Access to Leaf Blade and Power Whip. On Venusaur, Power Whip is illegal with Chlorophyll so Seed Bomb must be used. Leaf Blade is marginally stronger, but Power Whip is a whole 50% boost on Seed Bomb. It doesn't even need much investment to beat threats like Blissey:

Victreebel@Life Orb (4 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Power Whip vs Blissey (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 89.2 ~ 105% (637 ~ 750 HP) (SunShine)

(CONS)
- Horrible defenses in comparison. 80/65/65 is much more frail than 80/83/100. However, just 36 EVs in HP and victreebel can survive a bullet punch from Scizor, so they are workable
- Slower Speed. This doesn't usually matter, but there are some scarfers that Victreebel can't beat that Venusaur does, and this also means Venusaur beats it 1v1

tl;dr: standard moveset vs stats debate.

IMO donphan and murkrow should get analyses too. Donphan has a niche in being one of the few SR+Rapid Spinners, with the additional benefit of Ice Shard. And murkrow has the PERFECT movepool of prankster. But I haven't used either enough for an analysis
 
PI, I'm not responding to you. All your points are really weak and the fact you think a Skarm just dies to a Whiscash is lolzy. That and the fact that you seem to think ladder ranking means anything at all in proposing things. Just because someone high in ladder uses a Pokemon doesn't mean it deserves an OU analysis.

PS: You also seem to ignore half the posts in this thread debunked not only Donphan but most eviolite Pokemon. Moreover don't suggest Pokemon you don't have plenty of OU experience with.

@Kras Fair enough, just the way you structured your post implied Whiscash had a lot more setting up power than it really does. It just gave the wrong image was my main issue with the post.
 
-It has to DD is the thing. The whole point is they're on the field at the same time and he claimed Skarm is set up fodder. It isn't.

yeah, it just dies
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He never said anything about it being OHKOed. Skarmory just can't do anything to Whiscash other than Whirlwind.
 
chillarmy is right, if skarmory is the go-to check for whiscash then eventually whiscash will flinch/crit and skarmory will die, which is what I meant. Also, silly skarmories that use spikes/sr will also die.
 
Majora_younglink said:
@Kras Fair enough, just the way you structured your post implied Whiscash had a lot more setting up power than it really does. It just gave the wrong image was my main issue with the post.
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Yes I didn't explain that part of the post clearly enough, thanks for helping sort that issue out Majora.

With this issue resolved, what are your thoughts on an OU analysis for Whiscash given that the remaining aspects of my original post on Whiscash are hopefully accurate?

Also please note that while Whiscash is reliant on rain for recovery, switching in a weather changer (mainly Tyranitar Hippowdon) on Whiscash will likely result in either a severly damaged if not KOed pokemon, or 1 - 2 Dragon Dances for Whiscash to hit an incoming counter hard or simply begin to sweep.

EDIT: Adding an OU Check/Counter list for Whiscash


Counters:
  • Gyarados - Unless Whiscash runs Stone Edge
  • Rotom-W - Strong counter
  • Ferrothorn - Whiscash can wear down with repeated Earthquakes
  • Dragonite - Unless Whiscash runs Stone Edge
  • Venusaur - Doesn't like taking repeated Earthquakes
  • Celebi - Very strong counter
Please note that even these counters must remain Healthy and switch in before Whiscash has 2-3 Dragon Dances.


Checks:
  • Lati@s - Takes a big hit from Boosted Waterfalls in rain, outsped after 2 DD
  • Skarmory - Takes a big hit from Boosted Waterfalls in rain, can only whirlwind
  • Salamence - Unless Whiscash runs Stone Edge
  • Scrafty - Boosted Waterfall in rain 2HKO
  • Whimsicott - Can't really do much back to Whiscash except for Leech seed stall
 
Overall to be honest, I'm on the fence about Whiscash getting an analysis. Whatever the QC team chooses I'll be behind but to be perfectly honest I think the whole reason it works so well is because of the surprise factor.
 
PI-Dimension said:
On a separate note, I would like to do an Analysis on Victreebel. He is very similar to Venusaur in his role, but has a few benefits that give him a niche in sun teams.

Here is a brief analysis of the pros and cons of using victreebel over venusaur

(PROS)
- Access to Weather Ball. This is HUGE, as it is not only stronger than HP Fire, but also lets you use another HP (rock).
- Access to Sucker Punch. If it growth setups on something, then the weather is changed, Victreebel can retain speed in sucker punch. And its not weak either: 76 neutral nature OHKOs 4/0 Thundurus after Stealth Rock.
- Better mixed attacking stats. 105/100 is better than venusaur's 82/100.
- Access to Leaf Blade and Power Whip. On Venusaur, Power Whip is illegal with Chlorophyll so Seed Bomb must be used. Leaf Blade is marginally stronger, but Power Whip is a whole 50% boost on Seed Bomb. It doesn't even need much investment to beat threats like Blissey:

Victreebel@Life Orb (4 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) Power Whip vs Blissey (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 89.2 ~ 105% (637 ~ 750 HP) (SunShine)

(CONS)
- Horrible defenses in comparison. 80/65/65 is much more frail than 80/83/100. However, just 36 EVs in HP and victreebel can survive a bullet punch from Scizor, so they are workable
- Slower Speed. This doesn't usually matter, but there are some scarfers that Victreebel can't beat that Venusaur does, and this also means Venusaur beats it 1v1

tl;dr: standard moveset vs stats debate.
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Can we get some opinions on this? Mix Growth Victreebel imo is a LOT better offensively than mix venusaur, due to higher attack stat + power whip, and should deserve a set, and maybe Special Growth too with access to Weather Ball.

Also: things to add

Power Whip + Weather Ball is illegal
Power Whip + Sucker Punch is illegal

On Venusaur, Giga Drain + Chlorophyll is illegal, so Victreebel has another plus there.
 
I think that Victreebel was already rejected, but Venasaur is good not because of it's offensive prowess, but because it's bulk, something that Victreebell doesn't have.
 
Therefore, Victreebel has a niche as being an extremely offensive Sun sweeper? Sun teams are usually hyper offensive, and Victreebel can easily be better than Venusaur in some cases.
 
I think we should reconsider giving Crawdaunt an OU analysis. I was looking for something to check Reuniclus today that might fit on a Rain team (of the non-Scizor persuasion, mind you), and decided to just toss CB Crawdaunt on there to see if it could do anything. I didn't expect much, but what I got was something I could see myself consistently using on future Rain teams.

Battle between fiji dratini and SJCrew started!

Tier: BW OU
Variation: +23, -8
Rule: Rated
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Species Clause
Rule: Wifi Battle

SJCrew sent out Forretress!
fiji dratini sent out Volcarona!

Start of turn 1
SJCrew called Forretress back!
SJCrew sent out Politoed!

Politoed's Drizzle made it rain!
The foe's Volcarona used Bug Buzz!
Politoed lost 183 HP! (47% of its health)

Rain continues to fall!
Politoed restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 2
fiji dratini called Volcarona back!
fiji dratini sent out Tyranitar!

The foe's Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
SJCrew called Politoed back!
SJCrew sent out Forretress!

The sandstorm rages!

Start of turn 3
The foe's Tyranitar used Stone Edge!
Forretress lost 234 HP! (66% of its health)

Forretress used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around fiji dratini's team!

The sandstorm rages!
Forretress restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 4
The foe's Tyranitar used Stone Edge!
The attack of the foe's Tyranitar missed!

Forretress used Gyro Ball!
It's super effective!
The foe's Tyranitar lost 25% of its health!

The sandstorm rages!
Forretress restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 5
The foe's Tyranitar used Stone Edge!
The attack of the foe's Tyranitar missed!

Forretress used Volt Switch!
The foe's Tyranitar lost 5% of its health!
SJCrew called Forretress back!
SJCrew sent out Politoed!

Politoed's Drizzle made it rain!

Rain continues to fall!
Politoed restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
fiji dratini: ....
SJCrew: yeah worst move in the game

Start of turn 6
SJCrew called Politoed back!
SJCrew sent out Virizion!

fiji dratini called Tyranitar back!
fiji dratini sent out Gastrodon!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Gastrodon!

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Gastrodon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 7
fiji dratini called Gastrodon back!
fiji dratini sent out Reuniclus!

Virizion used Swords Dance!
Virizion's Attack sharply rose!

Rain continues to fall!

Start of turn 8
Virizion used Leaf Blade!
The foe's Reuniclus lost 46% of its health!

The foe's Reuniclus used Psychic!
It's super effective!
Virizion lost 192 HP! (59% of its health)

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Reuniclus restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 9
Virizion used Swords Dance!
Virizion's Attack sharply rose!

The foe's Reuniclus used Recover!
The foe's Reuniclus regained health!

Rain continues to fall!

Start of turn 10
Virizion used Leaf Blade!
The foe's Reuniclus lost 77% of its health!

The foe's Reuniclus used Psychic!
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Virizion lost 132 HP! (40% of its health)
Virizion fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Reuniclus restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
SJCrew sent out Crawdaunt!

Start of turn 11
Crawdaunt used Crunch!
It's super effective!
The foe's Reuniclus lost 29% of its health!
The foe's Reuniclus fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
fiji dratini sent out Tyranitar!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Tyranitar!

The foe's Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!

Start of turn 12
fiji dratini called Tyranitar back!
fiji dratini sent out Gastrodon!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Gastrodon!

Crawdaunt used Crunch!
The foe's Gastrodon lost 93% of its health!
The foe's Gastrodon fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
Crawdaunt is buffeted by the sandstorm!
fiji dratini sent out Excadrill!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Excadrill!

The foe's Excadrill is floating on a balloon!

Start of turn 13
SJCrew called Crawdaunt back!
SJCrew sent out Politoed!

Politoed's Drizzle made it rain!
The foe's Excadrill used Rapid Spin!
Politoed lost 25 HP! (6% of its health)
The foe's Excadrill blew away Stealth Rock!

Rain continues to fall!
Politoed restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 14
fiji dratini called Excadrill back!
fiji dratini sent out Tyranitar!

The foe's Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
SJCrew called Politoed back!
SJCrew sent out Rotom-C!

The sandstorm rages!
Rotom-C is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Rotom-C restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 15
SJCrew called Rotom-C back!
SJCrew sent out Politoed!

Politoed's Drizzle made it rain!
The foe's Tyranitar used Crunch!
Politoed lost 204 HP! (53% of its health)
Politoed's Defense fell!

Rain continues to fall!
Politoed restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 16
SJCrew called Politoed back!
SJCrew sent out Crawdaunt!

fiji dratini called Tyranitar back!
fiji dratini sent out Bronzong!

Rain continues to fall!

Start of turn 17
Crawdaunt used Waterfall!
The foe's Bronzong lost 90% of its health!

The foe's Bronzong used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around SJCrew's team!

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Bronzong restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 18
Crawdaunt used Waterfall!
The foe's Bronzong lost 15% of its health!
The foe's Bronzong fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
fiji dratini sent out Tyranitar!

The foe's Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!

Start of turn 19
Crawdaunt used Waterfall!
It's super effective!
The foe's Tyranitar lost 56% of its health!
The foe's Tyranitar fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
Crawdaunt is buffeted by the sandstorm!
fiji dratini sent out Excadrill!

The foe's Excadrill is floating on a balloon!

Start of turn 20
The foe's Excadrill used Swords Dance!
The foe's Excadrill's Attack sharply rose!

Crawdaunt used Waterfall!
It's super effective!
The foe's Excadrill lost 97% of its health!
The foe's Excadrill fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
Crawdaunt is buffeted by the sandstorm!
fiji dratini sent out Volcarona!

Start of turn 21
The foe's Volcarona used Bug Buzz!
It's super effective!
Crawdaunt lost 242 HP! (81% of its health)
Crawdaunt fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Volcarona is buffeted by the sandstorm!
SJCrew sent out Politoed!
Pointed stones dug into Politoed!

Politoed's Drizzle made it rain!

Start of turn 22
The foe's Volcarona used Quiver Dance!
The foe's Volcarona's Sp. Att. rose!
The foe's Volcarona's Sp. Def. rose!
The foe's Volcarona's Speed rose!

Politoed used Perish Song!
All Pokémon hearing the song will faint in three turns!

Rain continues to fall!
Politoed restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Volcarona's perish count fell to 3.
Politoed's perish count fell to 3.

Start of turn 23
Politoed used Protect!
Politoed protected itself!

The foe's Volcarona used Bug Buzz!
Politoed protected itself!

Rain continues to fall!
Politoed restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Volcarona's perish count fell to 2.
Politoed's perish count fell to 2.

Start of turn 24
SJCrew called Politoed back!
SJCrew sent out Forretress!
Pointed stones dug into Forretress!

The foe's Volcarona used Fire Blast!
It's super effective!
Forretress lost 120 HP! (33% of its health)
Forretress fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Volcarona's perish count fell to 1.
SJCrew sent out Politoed!
Pointed stones dug into Politoed!

Start of turn 25
Politoed used Protect!
Politoed protected itself!

The foe's Volcarona used Bug Buzz!
Politoed protected itself!

Rain continues to fall!
Politoed restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Volcarona's perish count fell to 0.
The foe's Volcarona fainted!

SJCrew won the battle!
SJCrew: You should train some more.

Keep in mind that with Brozong, I had Crabhammer, but used Waterfall instead just to see how much damage it would do. Crabhammer and you would have been looking at a clean OHKO, sir.

Suppose your standard [official analysis] Ferrothorn wanted to get in on a Rain-boosted Crabhammer...

46.9% - 55.3%

Good luck.

I'm betting this point, one would be wondering "Why use that thing over Azumarrill? Its Special Defense is pitiful and it doesn't have priority." In response to that I say:

Crawdaunt used Crunch!
The foe's Gastrodon lost 93% of its health!
The foe's Gastrodon fainted!
Click to expand...
Jellicent is not looking to take one of those. Call me when Azumarill is capable of destroying every wall in the tier with just its STAB.
 
He just listed that it can be pretty cleanly 2HKO'd by using Crabhammer in the rain. Whether I agree or not that Crawdaunt deserves and OU analysis though is a completely different issue.
 
Dragon Dance is too slow for OU. In the event of an OU analysis, I'd relegate it to Other Options.
 
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