Battle Maison Discussion & Records

[Chewybt]

This is my first post here on smogon though I have been lurking here for years. Anyway I am posting a super singles streak of 150 in ORAS. Heres the proof:

Now onto the team:

Salamence (F) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate/Aerilate
EVs: 6HP/252Atk/252Spe
Lv. 50 stats: 171-171/187-197/100-150/103-112/100-110/167-189
Nature: Jolly
~ Dragon Dance
~ Substitute
~ Return
~ Earthquake

I know there are more effective dragons out there, but Salamence is one of my personal favorites and I really wanted to abuse the power of its new Aerilate boosted return, so here we are. I went for the basic max speed/attack spread just to be as fast as possible. Mega-Salamence has naturally high speed already and due to the fact that I am using dragon dance I can potentially see running an adamant nature and dumping more evs into hp or defense. I lead with Salamence to get an intimidate off on whatever the first pokemon was. If it was something salamence could handle (non-ice/rock/fairy/dragon/anything that could carry those types of moves) I would stay in and mega-evo and go for a substitute. Intimidate combined with the huge defense boost salamence recieved gave the substitutes a surprising amount of survivability. At least half of the battles I was able to set up d-dances and subs without much issue. From there mence would rip apart the rest of the team with return (and earthquake when needed). If salamence was able to set up properly (knocking out the first pokemon with a sub and at least one ddance up) then It was almost always a clean sweep from there. Even without a boost return could one-shot a lot of things that didn't resist it. If the first pokemon was something salamence could not set up comfortably against, then I would turn to my back-up.

Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252HP/40Atk/216Spd
Lv. 50 stats: 177/170/120/54/127/85
Nature: Adamant
~ Bullet Punch
~ Bug Bite
~ Swords Dance
~ Roost

Scizor is a very ideal partner for salamence as it is able to switch into and set up against practically anything that that salamence can't deal with. The ev spread and moveset was adapated from the gen 5 bulky SD set. I wanted the extra special defense so scizor could comfortably take on bulky waters as well as just tank hits in general. Usually if salamence was forced to switch out against the first mon scizor would come in and set up to sweep to the rest of the team (unless of course they had a fire type). The pseudo-bulk from salamence's intimidate allowed scizor to set up easily against the dangerous physical attackers that salamence couldn't beat (rock types, dragon types and fighting types with rock coverage). I did find scizor's unboosted damage output to be very underwhelming due to the low amount of attacks evs, however due to his bulk he found an ample amount of opportunities to set up at least one SD so this was never really an issue.

Greninja (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 6HP/252SAtk/252Spe
Lv. 50 stats: 148/99/87/155/91/191
Nature: Timid
~ Surf
~ Ice Beam
~ Grass Knot
~ Dark Pulse

This is really just the standard maison Greninja, nothing too interesting here. I wanted a special attacker and geninja's speed, power and coverage earned him the spot. I very seldom switched him into an attack unless I was absolutely sure it was going to be a resisted hit. Greninja acted as more of an insurance/back up and thus was the least used member of the team. Usually scizor or salamence went down I would switch into greninja to try and sweep.

This streak is over three months old so I don't remember the name or the class of the trainer that I lost too. The loss however was quite humiliating. The trainer led off with a cryogonal so I immediately switched to scizor to tank the on-coming blizzard. I didn't see how cryogonal could harm sczior so I went for an SD. This proved to be a huge mistake as I scizor was swiftly taken down by a sheer cold. I didn't know much about cryogonal's stats other than that it had horrible defense so I made another mistake by switching into salamence. I tried to mega evolve and go for a return only to be out-sped and killed by a blizzard. I knew I was probably dead but I sucked it up and sent in greninja. I surfed it which did almost half so I thought I may have had a chance. My hopes were immediately dashed when greninja was then hit by an icy wind. The combination of two more blizzards plus life orb finished me off. I was single-handedly destroyed by a snowflake.

I really want to break 200 with this team and now that I am on summer break I hope I will have the chance to do this. If anyone has suggestions for improving the team that would be great. I wouldn't mind switching out any member except salamence as he is the only semi-original thing about this team. Hopefully I will be back with a higher streak in the near future.

 

[Altissimo]

I really want to break 200 with this team and now that I am on summer break I hope I will have the chance to do this. If anyone has suggestions for improving the team that would be great. I wouldn't mind switching out any member except salamence as he is the only semi-original thing about this team. Hopefully I will be back with a higher streak in the near future.

Not so much advice about the team, but make sure you utilize the trainers, speed tiers, and [url=http://members.shaw.ca/teamrocketelite/BattleMaisonData.txt]movesets[/URL] lists. This will help you avoid any losses to incidents like the Cryogonal you described earlier.

 

[DragonRush]

Hey I'm looking for a team for super singles and super triples oras and have a lot of pokemon to chose from any suggestions? 3 I already have trained are
Protean Greninja-Ice Beam Dark Pulse Grass Knot Mat Block
Mega Kangaskhan Drain Punch Sucker Punch Double Edge Fake out
Lucario(physical)Bullet Punch Stone Edge Close Combat Swords Dance.
Others include-
PORYGON Z
LVL1 ARON
SLURPUFF
WALREIN
ROTOM
SWAMPERT
AZUMARILL
DUSKNOIR
TREVENANT
GLISCOR
SKARMORY
TALONFLAME
GARCHOMP
CHARIZARD
MANETRIC
DOUBLADE
CONKELDURR
SCIZOR
METAGROSS
FLYGON
SALAMENCE
HYDREIGON
KLEFKI
MAWILE
WHIMSICOTT
GYRADOS
ELEKTROSS
TYRANITAR
I will gladly post stats on thesd if you want just didn't feel like it... DOUBLADE I can evolve just need a dusk stone. I have a lot more than that those are just the ones I think would work the best.

 

[DragonRush]

Also I was wondering if a trick room DUSKNOIR lvl 1 aron ELEKTROSS CONKELDURR TYRANITAR WALREIN would work for triples

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

Dusclops is more defensively sound than Dusknoir, at the cost of being unable to hold a Mental Herb or Lum Berry. It's also outsped by less under TR, which helps Aron.

Your third lead must either support Aron/Dusclops or be a sweeper, but bear in mind that enemies will pass on Aron in order to attempt a OHKO on them. I was specifically thinking of Tyranitar when I said this.

Tyranitar has some slight issues on TR teams but mitigates some others. Sand greatly inflates its stats at the cost of pissing off its allies with side damage. Unnerve is a generally unloved ability but cockblocks Custap Berry.

Non-mega Tyranitar is a little bit faster than Clawitzer, which means he's outsped by quite a few Set4 pokes under TR, but still pretty sufficiently slow. While Mega Tyranitar has a much worse TR speed, it has the benefit of slaughtering enemy setters. In my experience, they were a large enough thorn in my side that it was worth frequently planning around. Still, a lead Tyranitar, mega or not, MUST have Protect and can feasibly expect to use it opening most battles.

Eelektross should be used only if both its coverage moves and Levitate, together, patch a major hole in your team, because its bulk and strength are only moderate for a TR abuser.

Walrein is fun to use under TR but is honestly not a good choice for a triples team. Exceedingly shallow movepool and great bulk with a bad typing. The kinds of hold items needed to rectify these are better spent on other waters. Gastrodon is one of your best bets for waters that need not set up that can excel under TR and make good support.

Conkeldurr is fastastic, and while Mach Punch can't be used to kill Endeavor targets the same turn, it packs a mean Knock Off for ghost types that Dusclops can't Foresight.

I'm on my phone and can't easily do damage calcs en masse but I have a lot of praise for Sheer Force Conkeldurr as a backup, especially when your back line must fill niche roles or kill certain enemy typings quickly before TR wears off. Most people value Iron Fisted MP too much, but I got way more mileage out of SF than first envisioned, enough that the priority didn't seem quite as useful. Knock Off/Poison Jab/Ice Punch or Thunderpunch and Superpower. But like Eekektross, this set is only truly useful if your team needs it.

I'll help you a lot more when I can get at a normal keyboard!

 

[GG Unit]

This is my first post here on smogon though I have been lurking here for years. Anyway I am posting a super singles streak of 150 in ORAS. Heres the proof:

Now onto the team:

Salamence (F) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate/Aerilate
EVs: 6HP/252Atk/252Spe
Lv. 50 stats: 171-171/187-197/100-150/103-112/100-110/167-189
Nature: Jolly
~ Dragon Dance
~ Substitute
~ Return
~ Earthquake

I know there are more effective dragons out there, but Salamence is one of my personal favorites and I really wanted to abuse the power of its new Aerilate boosted return, so here we are. I went for the basic max speed/attack spread just to be as fast as possible. Mega-Salamence has naturally high speed already and due to the fact that I am using dragon dance I can potentially see running an adamant nature and dumping more evs into hp or defense. I lead with Salamence to get an intimidate off on whatever the first pokemon was. If it was something salamence could handle (non-ice/rock/fairy/dragon/anything that could carry those types of moves) I would stay in and mega-evo and go for a substitute. Intimidate combined with the huge defense boost salamence recieved gave the substitutes a surprising amount of survivability. At least half of the battles I was able to set up d-dances and subs without much issue. From there mence would rip apart the rest of the team with return (and earthquake when needed). If salamence was able to set up properly (knocking out the first pokemon with a sub and at least one ddance up) then It was almost always a clean sweep from there. Even without a boost return could one-shot a lot of things that didn't resist it. If the first pokemon was something salamence could not set up comfortably against, then I would turn to my back-up.

Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252HP/40Atk/216Spd
Lv. 50 stats: 177/170/120/54/127/85
Nature: Adamant
~ Bullet Punch
~ Bug Bite
~ Swords Dance
~ Roost

Scizor is a very ideal partner for salamence as it is able to switch into and set up against practically anything that that salamence can't deal with. The ev spread and moveset was adapated from the gen 5 bulky SD set. I wanted the extra special defense so scizor could comfortably take on bulky waters as well as just tank hits in general. Usually if salamence was forced to switch out against the first mon scizor would come in and set up to sweep to the rest of the team (unless of course they had a fire type). The pseudo-bulk from salamence's intimidate allowed scizor to set up easily against the dangerous physical attackers that salamence couldn't beat (rock types, dragon types and fighting types with rock coverage). I did find scizor's unboosted damage output to be very underwhelming due to the low amount of attacks evs, however due to his bulk he found an ample amount of opportunities to set up at least one SD so this was never really an issue.

Greninja (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 6HP/252SAtk/252Spe
Lv. 50 stats: 148/99/87/155/91/191
Nature: Timid
~ Surf
~ Ice Beam
~ Grass Knot
~ Dark Pulse

This is really just the standard maison Greninja, nothing too interesting here. I wanted a special attacker and geninja's speed, power and coverage earned him the spot. I very seldom switched him into an attack unless I was absolutely sure it was going to be a resisted hit. Greninja acted as more of an insurance/back up and thus was the least used member of the team. Usually scizor or salamence went down I would switch into greninja to try and sweep.

This streak is over three months old so I don't remember the name or the class of the trainer that I lost too. The loss however was quite humiliating. The trainer led off with a cryogonal so I immediately switched to scizor to tank the on-coming blizzard. I didn't see how cryogonal could harm sczior so I went for an SD. This proved to be a huge mistake as I scizor was swiftly taken down by a sheer cold. I didn't know much about cryogonal's stats other than that it had horrible defense so I made another mistake by switching into salamence. I tried to mega evolve and go for a return only to be out-sped and killed by a blizzard. I knew I was probably dead but I sucked it up and sent in greninja. I surfed it which did almost half so I thought I may have had a chance. My hopes were immediately dashed when greninja was then hit by an icy wind. The combination of two more blizzards plus life orb finished me off. I was single-handedly destroyed by a snowflake.

I really want to break 200 with this team and now that I am on summer break I hope I will have the chance to do this. If anyone has suggestions for improving the team that would be great. I wouldn't mind switching out any member except salamence as he is the only semi-original thing about this team. Hopefully I will be back with a higher streak in the near future.

Good news: That Cryogonal is only on Hail teams so you can probably go 200 without seeing it.

Bad news: I feel like more common stuff like the Sheer Cold Walrein or critical hits from those semi-dangerous physical moves is a bigger problem (the latter is where the difference between MegaMence/Scizor and Dragonite/Mega Scizor is especially hard to overcome).

One fun idea I had was a lead Sturdy Shuckle (not sure of item: probably between Custap Berry, Lum Berry, and Mental Herb) with Stealth Rock, Encore, and some combination of debuffing moves like Struggle Bug, Power Split, Mud Slap, and Rock Tomb, which would make for some very easy set-up if you went with a bulkier (probably Adamant) Mence spread that had Roost instead of Earthquake. Either way, Salamence can have slightly less speed because you don't want speed ties. I think turskain had a spread for it somewhere, but whatever it is is basically just dropping Mence one Speed tier and putting the saved EVs in bulk.

One problem I'm seeing for such a team is lead Skarmory 4, although the team as is could have a tough time with it (you would probably end up 3-2 with a weakened Greninja and some hazard damage spread around depending on how unlucky you are with what Whirlwind drags out). I'd imagine that you'd have decent enough odds in that situation by Encoring Skarmory's first move and then trying to overpower it as quickly as possible, but that'd be something to prepare for.

 

[mathijn]

Sooo, little update from my side. Tried setting up for Mega-tyranitar with a bulky Gliscor + ferrothorn opener. Leech life on ferro to support togekiss(tyranitars Follow me support and Fighter buster with dazzling gleam). The maison decided that it shouldn't even try it, I got my ass handed to me by a Walrein 1, who oneshot my gliscor, and totally walled my Ferrothorn. Experiment failed, but at least I got some useful pokemon out of it and some more ideas. Back to the drawing table!

 

[DragonRush]

Okay I've found a good triples team but I'm lacking a 6th
Greninja Life Orb
Timid
Protean

Standard Greninja

TALONFLAME (need item)
Adamant
Gale Wings
-Brave Bird
-Flare Blitz
-Me First (just for fun)
-Protect

Lucario Muscle Band
Jolly
Justified

-Bullet Punch
-Stone Edge
-Close Combat
-Swords Dance

HYDREIGON (need item)
Adamant

Dragon Pulse
Dark Pulse
Earth Power
Protect

Mega Kangaskhan
Naive
Scrappy

Drain Punch
Sucker Punch
Double-edge
Fake out

Looking preferably for a stalling pokemon Blissey etc or another sp. Attacker any ideas?

 

[sunzet-therian forme]

Okay I've found a good triples team but I'm lacking a 6th
Greninja Life Orb
Timid
Protean

Standard Greninja

TALONFLAME (need item)
Adamant
Gale Wings
-Brave Bird
-Flare Blitz
-Me First (just for fun)
-Protect

Lucario Muscle Band
Jolly
Justified

-Bullet Punch
-Stone Edge
-Close Combat
-Swords Dance

HYDREIGON (need item)
Adamant

Dragon Pulse
Dark Pulse
Earth Power
Protect

Mega Kangaskhan
Naive
Scrappy

Drain Punch
Sucker Punch
Double-edge
Fake out

Looking preferably for a stalling pokemon Blissey etc or another sp. Attacker any ideas?

Just a few suggestions.
1.Focus sash is way better than life orb for a triples team
2.Life orb is good on talonflame but it might have better use on hydreigon so sharp beak is you next best option
3.I'm not a big fan of non-mega lucario in general but MUSCLE BAND, I mean come on.
4.I'm a bit confused about your natures. Adamant hydrerigon with 3 spedcviasl moves and no physical moves. Switch it to modest. Naive Kangaskhan? Go for jolly.
5.Me first, tasilwind is gonna be better.

I don't have a 5th team member in mind, but what is your team strategy anyway?

 

[SimicCombine]

Talonflame usually spams Brave Bird, so Sharp Beak is a fine item if another member needs that Life Orb boost. You also probably want to run Tailwind on Talonflame since having your entire team always outspeed their entire team for three turns makes life a lot simpler. You'll also be using Mat Block on turn 1, so that's as good a time as any to get Tailwind up. Since Brave Bird can already hit any target, you don't really gain much by putting Talonflame in the middle.

 

[DragonRush]

Thanks for the advice im New to iv and ev training so I don't really know a lot about natures I'll look into it

 

[spidey-widey]

Hello Smogon! This is my first post here, though I've checked on this thread occasionally. I'm reporting a streak of 151 wins in X/Y super rotations. Team details are as follows:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD
-Scald
-Protect
-Wish
-Haze

Scolipede @ Mental Herb
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 236 HP, 228 Def, 44 Spe
-Baton Pass
-Protect
-Substitute
-Steamroller

Sharpedo @ Focus Sash
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
-Waterfall
-Crunch
-Protect
-Destiny Bond

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Nature: Careful
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 212 HP, 44 Def, 252 SpD
-Substitute
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake
-Aerial Ace

I had the thought that Gliscor could be absolutely incredible in the Maison if only it were blazing fast. This team was built to give it a major speed boost without sacrificing its bulk. At +3, my Gliscor outspeeds the entire unboosted Maison except for Aerodactyl1. At +2, it still outspeeds almost everything.

I typically begin battles by having Scolipede use protect followed by substitute. If its sub remains intact, I then baton pass to Gliscor (unless I need Gliscor to reach +3, in which case I use protect again and then baton pass). I almost never baton pass to Gliscor if my sub is broken; in most cases, doing so means risking being hit by an ice beam, leech seed, being burnt, etc. Herein lies this team's primary weakness, I think: safely baton passing to Gliscor is tricky. There are plenty of battles in which Scolipede's sub remains up due to an enemy status move or a not very effective attack. However, there are also some battles in which the AI does not let me keep my sub up - such as in my loss on battle 152.

If the baton pass is successful, however, victory usually just takes a matter of time to achieve. At the end of the baton pass turn, Gliscor is poisoned and is thereafter only really susceptible to ice attacks, leech seed, perish song, and confusion. The only remaining problem then is Gliscor's attack, which isn't high enough to overwhelm most opponents. I therefore proceed by using swords dance a few times (while keeping my sub up, if need be), at which point Gliscor can finish the battle.

While making this team, I feared roar and whirlwind, since both could undo all of Gliscor's stat boosts. (Apparently whirlwind goes through subs, even though it isn't a sound move?) Both moves became quite rare after the Chatelaine battle, but they were nevertheless my main reason for choosing Sharpedo: it's a suicide mon which usually succeeds in doing significant damage to the opponent (and is sometimes able to finish battle by itself, with a little cleric support from Vaporeon). Whenever I'm against an opponent that might have roar/whirlwind, I baton pass as usual with my fingers crossed and then rotate Gliscor out until Sharpedo faints. Once I only have three mons left, roar and whirlwind become harmless.

Having two water types among my lead three might seem like a bad idea, but it never proved overly troublesome and was actually quite nice at times. Vaporeon and Sharpedo together attract many grass and electric attacks, which Scolipede and Gliscor, respectively, absorb very well. I've had Manectric4 switch out multiple times against me after locking itself into an electric move while face-to-face with Gliscor.

The EVs and movesets for Sharpedo and Vaporeon should be quite self-explanatory. Vaporeon's haze sometimes felt a bit like dead weight, but it proved very helpful against some boosting opponents, who would occasionally accumulate an uncomfortable amount of boosts while I was busy protecting/subbing/swords dancing. I considered ice beam and heal bell in place of haze. Heal bell might sound really stupid due to its bad synergy with Gliscor's toxic orb, but situations may arise in which the whole party's status is more important than one turn of poison heal. It would also let me baton pass to Gliscor a little more recklessly, since heal bell would be able to cure any other status incurred by Gliscor during that turn.

Scolipede has a mental herb to prevent it from being taunted, which happened three or four times. Its speed EVs allow it to outspeed the Maison's fastest OHKO user, Pinsir4. (I never encountered any Pinsirs, though; does Pinsir4 even show up in rotations? I guess I would do well to learn a little more about the Maison's mechanics.) If I were to try this team again, I would probably make sure that Scolipede can also outspeed Terrakion2 and Entei3 after a speed boost. Sharpedo can deal with both pretty well, but their very presence effectively thwarts my baton pass strategy since either could easily outspeed and KO Scolipede. I encountered Entei3 once and Terrakion2 a few times, and all of those battles were quite awkward. Anyhow, Scolipede's 236 HP EVs let it reach a "nice" substitute number (165). I put the rest into defense rather than distributing across both defenses because it seemed to me that this would maximize the odds of a sub remaining intact; Scolipede really isn't bulky on either side without investment. If I were to use Scolipede and Vaporeon on a similar team in the future, I would probably make sure Scolipede instead has 157 HP so that one of Vaporeon's wishes can restore a full three subs' worth of HP; as it is, a Vaporeon wish restores slightly less than that. This never became important, though. The last thing I would change with Scolipede is the move steamroller. I chose it because I thought it might help against opponents who boost their evasion, but haze and aerial ace already do that well. In retrospect, steamroller was a really silly choice, and X-Scissor and toxic both seem like much better choices.

Gliscor has 212 HP to reach a nice substitute and poison heal number at level 50. I then maximize special defense and put the rest into defense, making Gliscor pretty bulky on both sides. It would've been really nice to include protect in Gliscor's moveset so that it can stall without ever relying on Vaporeon's wishes, but I think Gliscor really needed each of those four moves. Maybe protect could be included in place of earthquake, since nothing is outright immune to aerial ace, but I would sorely miss earthquake and I doubt that dropping it is a good idea. I'm really not convinced that my EV spread and nature for Gliscor are ideal for this team, but they did seem to work pretty well.

I was surprised to find that the Chatelaine battle was one of my toughest ones. Perhaps I underestimated Morgan because of my experience with her in a 121 streak using Espeon, Vaporeon, Aegislash, and Ferrothorn; none of her pokes could do much to Aegislash (except for Terrakion's earthquake, but it still wasn't hard at all to deal with that). With this new team, however, I found my subs being constantly broken. I think I also misplayed that battle pretty badly. At the end, I had just Scolipede and Gliscor left, with 1 and 4 HP left, respectively.

Trick room and Cofagrigus can threaten this team, though they're usually just slightly annoying. I have to make sure not to hit Cofagrigus with aerial ace, because doing so would cause Gliscor to lose its poison heal ability. Trick room obviously prevents Gliscor (and Sharpedo) from outspeeding the opponent. Between protect, substitute, focus sash, and wish, though, it's usually really easy to just stall out trick room. (But trick room did contribute to my eventual demise.)

Boosting sweepers are major threats to my team; I strongly suspected Feraligatr4 would be the one to end my streak. Volcarona4 is a major threat, as usual, and its bug buzz can go through Gliscor's subs, but Sharpedo has always been able to deal with it. That isn't true of Feraligatr4, which sometimes got in as many as four dragon dances before I hazed or KO'd it.

If you want to watch 71 boring turns, then here's a battle I had against a team with two OHKO users and two calm mind users. It was really awkward and I eventually had to abandon my baton pass strategy, but I still managed to pull through:

4DJG-WWWW-WW23-S9H6

And here's my loss:

B4WW-WWWW-WW23-S9HN

Knowing that Scolipede was faster than all of the opposing mons, and that the opponent was likely to use solarbeam, trick room, or gastro acid, maybe I should've just used substitute on the first turn. (For what it's worth, I did this in a mock battle afterward and won.) I could've practically abandoned my baton pass strategy altogether here, but I was scared that Victreebel would outspeed Gliscor and hit it with gastro acid.

Victreebel surprised me by breaking Scolipede's sub with solarbeam, and Clawitzer was determined to prevent me from keeping my sub up. Maybe I should've used destiny bond with Sharpedo when it was at 1 HP; doing so would've taken down the pesky Clawitzer. I didn't want to do that, though, since it was likely that Slowking would rotate back in and use trick room again.

I might've been able to stall to victory, but Slowking's psychic scored a fatal special defense drop on Vaporeon. Perhaps my best move was to just bite the bullet and use earthquake with my unsubbed Gliscor. This might've KO'd Clawitzer, and if Slowking had rotated back in, it likely would've used trick room again. But Slowking's ice beam scared me too much to try this. Alas, Gliscor eventually took an ice beam to the face anyway.

That loss was quite possibly the result of a series of misplays on my part. I'm still not sure how to feel about that loss, but I am satisfied with this streak overall. Frankly, I didn't think this team would do this well; it seems to me that it can be beaten without misplays or opponent hax. Still, it was fun using a baton pass team to some degree of success.

Props to anyone who actually reads all of this. :P

 

[faith_grins]

Hello Smogon! This is my first post here, though I've checked on this thread occasionally. I'm reporting a streak of 151 wins in X/Y super rotations. Team details are as follows:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD
-Scald
-Protect
-Wish
-Haze

Scolipede @ Mental Herb
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 236 HP, 228 Def, 44 Spe
-Baton Pass
-Protect
-Substitute
-Steamroller

Sharpedo @ Focus Sash
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
-Waterfall
-Crunch
-Protect
-Destiny Bond

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Nature: Careful
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 212 HP, 44 Def, 252 SpD
-Substitute
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake
-Aerial Ace

I had the thought that Gliscor could be absolutely incredible in the Maison if only it were blazing fast. This team was built to give it a major speed boost without sacrificing its bulk. At +3, my Gliscor outspeeds the entire unboosted Maison except for Aerodactyl1. At +2, it still outspeeds almost everything.

I typically begin battles by having Scolipede use protect followed by substitute. If its sub remains intact, I then baton pass to Gliscor (unless I need Gliscor to reach +3, in which case I use protect again and then baton pass). I almost never baton pass to Gliscor if my sub is broken; in most cases, doing so means risking being hit by an ice beam, leech seed, being burnt, etc. Herein lies this team's primary weakness, I think: safely baton passing to Gliscor is tricky. There are plenty of battles in which Scolipede's sub remains up due to an enemy status move or a not very effective attack. However, there are also some battles in which the AI does not let me keep my sub up - such as in my loss on battle 152.

If the baton pass is successful, however, victory usually just takes a matter of time to achieve. At the end of the baton pass turn, Gliscor is poisoned and is thereafter only really susceptible to ice attacks, leech seed, perish song, and confusion. The only remaining problem then is Gliscor's attack, which isn't high enough to overwhelm most opponents. I therefore proceed by using swords dance a few times (while keeping my sub up, if need be), at which point Gliscor can finish the battle.

While making this team, I feared roar and whirlwind, since both could undo all of Gliscor's stat boosts. (Apparently whirlwind goes through subs, even though it isn't a sound move?) Both moves became quite rare after the Chatelaine battle, but they were nevertheless my main reason for choosing Sharpedo: it's a suicide mon which usually succeeds in doing significant damage to the opponent (and is sometimes able to finish battle by itself, with a little cleric support from Vaporeon). Whenever I'm against an opponent that might have roar/whirlwind, I baton pass as usual with my fingers crossed and then rotate Gliscor out until Sharpedo faints. Once I only have three mons left, roar and whirlwind become harmless.

Having two water types among my lead three might seem like a bad idea, but it never proved overly troublesome and was actually quite nice at times. Vaporeon and Sharpedo together attract many grass and electric attacks, which Scolipede and Gliscor, respectively, absorb very well. I've had Manectric4 switch out multiple times against me after locking itself into an electric move while face-to-face with Gliscor.

The EVs and movesets for Sharpedo and Vaporeon should be quite self-explanatory. Vaporeon's haze sometimes felt a bit like dead weight, but it proved very helpful against some boosting opponents, who would occasionally accumulate an uncomfortable amount of boosts while I was busy protecting/subbing/swords dancing. I considered ice beam and heal bell in place of haze. Heal bell might sound really stupid due to its bad synergy with Gliscor's toxic orb, but situations may arise in which the whole party's status is more important than one turn of poison heal. It would also let me baton pass to Gliscor a little more recklessly, since heal bell would be able to cure any other status incurred by Gliscor during that turn.

Scolipede has a mental herb to prevent it from being taunted, which happened three or four times. Its speed EVs allow it to outspeed the Maison's fastest OHKO user, Pinsir4. (I never encountered any Pinsirs, though; does Pinsir4 even show up in rotations? I guess I would do well to learn a little more about the Maison's mechanics.) If I were to try this team again, I would probably make sure that Scolipede can also outspeed Terrakion2 and Entei3 after a speed boost. Sharpedo can deal with both pretty well, but their very presence effectively thwarts my baton pass strategy since either could easily outspeed and KO Scolipede. I encountered Entei3 once and Terrakion2 a few times, and all of those battles were quite awkward. Anyhow, Scolipede's 236 HP EVs let it reach a "nice" substitute number (165). I put the rest into defense rather than distributing across both defenses because it seemed to me that this would maximize the odds of a sub remaining intact; Scolipede really isn't bulky on either side without investment. If I were to use Scolipede and Vaporeon on a similar team in the future, I would probably make sure Scolipede instead has 157 HP so that one of Vaporeon's wishes can restore a full three subs' worth of HP; as it is, a Vaporeon wish restores slightly less than that. This never became important, though. The last thing I would change with Scolipede is the move steamroller. I chose it because I thought it might help against opponents who boost their evasion, but haze and aerial ace already do that well. In retrospect, steamroller was a really silly choice, and X-Scissor and toxic both seem like much better choices.

Gliscor has 212 HP to reach a nice substitute and poison heal number at level 50. I then maximize special defense and put the rest into defense, making Gliscor pretty bulky on both sides. It would've been really nice to include protect in Gliscor's moveset so that it can stall without ever relying on Vaporeon's wishes, but I think Gliscor really needed each of those four moves. Maybe protect could be included in place of earthquake, since nothing is outright immune to aerial ace, but I would sorely miss earthquake and I doubt that dropping it is a good idea. I'm really not convinced that my EV spread and nature for Gliscor are ideal for this team, but they did seem to work pretty well.

I was surprised to find that the Chatelaine battle was one of my toughest ones. Perhaps I underestimated Morgan because of my experience with her in a 121 streak using Espeon, Vaporeon, Aegislash, and Ferrothorn; none of her pokes could do much to Aegislash (except for Terrakion's earthquake, but it still wasn't hard at all to deal with that). With this new team, however, I found my subs being constantly broken. I think I also misplayed that battle pretty badly. At the end, I had just Scolipede and Gliscor left, with 1 and 4 HP left, respectively.

Trick room and Cofagrigus can threaten this team, though they're usually just slightly annoying. I have to make sure not to hit Cofagrigus with aerial ace, because doing so would cause Gliscor to lose its poison heal ability. Trick room obviously prevents Gliscor (and Sharpedo) from outspeeding the opponent. Between protect, substitute, focus sash, and wish, though, it's usually really easy to just stall out trick room. (But trick room did contribute to my eventual demise.)

Boosting sweepers are major threats to my team; I strongly suspected Feraligatr4 would be the one to end my streak. Volcarona4 is a major threat, as usual, and its bug buzz can go through Gliscor's subs, but Sharpedo has always been able to deal with it. That isn't true of Feraligatr4, which sometimes got in as many as four dragon dances before I hazed or KO'd it.

If you want to watch 71 boring turns, then here's a battle I had against a team with two OHKO users and two calm mind users. It was really awkward and I eventually had to abandon my baton pass strategy, but I still managed to pull through:

4DJG-WWWW-WW23-S9H6

And here's my loss:

B4WW-WWWW-WW23-S9HN

Knowing that Scolipede was faster than all of the opposing mons, and that the opponent was likely to use solarbeam, trick room, or gastro acid, maybe I should've just used substitute on the first turn. (For what it's worth, I did this in a mock battle afterward and won.) I could've practically abandoned my baton pass strategy altogether here, but I was scared that Victreebel would outspeed Gliscor and hit it with gastro acid.

Victreebel surprised me by breaking Scolipede's sub with solarbeam, and Clawitzer was determined to prevent me from keeping my sub up. Maybe I should've used destiny bond with Sharpedo when it was at 1 HP; doing so would've taken down the pesky Clawitzer. I didn't want to do that, though, since it was likely that Slowking would rotate back in and use trick room again.

I might've been able to stall to victory, but Slowking's psychic scored a fatal special defense drop on Vaporeon. Perhaps my best move was to just bite the bullet and use earthquake with my unsubbed Gliscor. This might've KO'd Clawitzer, and if Slowking had rotated back in, it likely would've used trick room again. But Slowking's ice beam scared me too much to try this. Alas, Gliscor eventually took an ice beam to the face anyway.

That loss was quite possibly the result of a series of misplays on my part. I'm still not sure how to feel about that loss, but I am satisfied with this streak overall. Frankly, I didn't think this team would do this well; it seems to me that it can be beaten without misplays or opponent hax. Still, it was fun using a baton pass team to some degree of success.

Props to anyone who actually reads all of this. :P

I love this team. I've tried a Scolipede/Espeon core baton pass team in different formats and it never really amounted to much; it's nice to know at least one of those team members has the chops to get somewhere in the Maison.

One thing I don't quite understand - when facing Terrakion2 or Entei3, shouldn't Vaporeon become your front man, there? Scald 2HKOs both of those and Vaporeon is not 2HKO'd by either Terrakion2 or Entei3, and Wish/Protect ought to be able to handle any bad rotations you get. Sure, it delays the main thrust of the team, but it ought to be a situation you can handle, given the prevalence of Water types on your team.

I'm also somewhat interested in the Espeon/Vaporeon/Aegislash/Ferrothorn team. Did you feel like Aegislash was the workhorse of that team? Was it more stall-oriented, or was it more of a defensive pivot style, where Vaporeon passed wishes to Espeon and Aegislash while they tried to boost up and unleash?

 

[spidey-widey]

Hey, Scolipede/Espeon sounds like a cool baton pass core. I kind of want to try it myself in singles, but dedicating two-thirds of the team to a risky baton pass strategy seems like a questionable choice. I'd love to see it work.

Anyhow, you're probably right that I should've been relying on Vaporeon when faced with Terrakion2 or Entei3. The thought hadn't actually crossed my mind - I never ran the damage calcs to see how Vaporeon would do against them, so I guess I just felt safer relying on Sharpedo's focus sash. Notably, I did start relying on Vaporeon once the sash had been used, but it was never my primary strategy. Evidently, damage calcs are an important part of team planning!

As for my old rotations team: Aegislash was to that team what Gliscor was to my new team. That is to say, he was a setup sweeper. Vaporeon was a cleric, and Espeon was a dual screener. The basic strategy, then, was for Espeon to set up screens so that Aegislash could use swords dance a few times; Vaporeon could pass wishes to Aegislash as necessary. Ferrothorn was just filler, since I didn't have any clever ideas for what the fourth teammate should do. Vaporeon was exactly the same in that team as on my new team, and the others were, I think, as follows:

Espeon @ Light Clay
Nature: Timid
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP, 4 SpA, 252 Spe
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Psychic
-Shadow Ball

Aegislash @ ? (I alternated between things like Lum Berry and Spooky Plate, I think)
Nature: Brave
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SpD
-King's Shield
-Swords Dance
-Sacred Sword
-Shadow Sneak

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Nature: Relaxed
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP, 88 Def, 168 SpD
-Protect
-Gyro Ball
-Power Whip
-Leech Seed

I should've mentioned in my previous post that I've always used pokemon with perfect IVs in their relevant stats. For example, this means that Aegislash and Ferrothorn in my old team had 0 speed IVs.

Aegislash's ideal item on this team seems a bit up in the air, but I think its EVs and moveset were pretty ideal. The only thing I'd really consider changing about Espeon is its last move. Since Aegislash provides ghost coverage already, maybe dazzling gleam (for fairy coverage) or grass knot (for unaware Quagsire) would've been good; alternately, protect might've been nice for passing wishes to Espeon reliably. Maybe even heal bell would've been a good idea so that Aegislash can safely forego Lum Berry.

For Ferrothorn, I just took one of my competitive builds and replaced stealth rock with protect. There are very likely better Ferrothorn builds for this particular team, but at this point, I'd sooner consider just replacing Ferrothorn altogether. I'm still scared of roar and whirlwind (which I somehow never encountered in my old streak), so maybe it'd be good to replace Ferrothorn with a destiny bond user, and then set up with Aegislash only after the destiny bonder faints (if the opponent has roar/whirlwind/dragon tail, that is). I kind of want to try that now. Wish passing didn't synergize all that well with dual screens since each wish effectively uses up two of the turns that your screens are active, but this team still worked pretty well.

Ultimately, it was hax and a bad matchup that did in my old team. I didn't record that battle, but the opponent had two night slash users, and they kept getting crits (which, of course, ignore the screens' protection). That took down both Espeon and Aegislash pretty quickly. One of the night slashers was Skuntank4, which took out Ferrothorn with a fire blast. I don't remember how Vaporeon fainted, but he went down before Ferrothorn.

Since you apparently want to make Espeon work in the Maison, I'll mention that I was quite pleased with it and want to use it more in the future. Admittedly, that's partly because Espeon is one of my favorites. But its speed tier is great, and magic bounce can be really incredible in the Maison. Mega Absol has magic bounce and slightly better speed (and I have tried it out a bit), but it's even frailer than Espeon and needs to hold Absol's mega stone, whereas Espeon can make use of a sash, clay, etc. I've tried Mega Sableye in the ORAS Maison too, but I haven't really accomplished anything with it yet. (Maybe I'll try Xatu sometime? Magic bounce is great, but Xatu seems like a bit of a stretch to me.)

 

[faith_grins]

I tried two different versions of Espeon/Scolipede in Singles - one with Espy as the anchorman, trying to sweep with a boosted Stored Power (Vaporeon was the third member, there, passing Wish and Acid Armor), and one that attempted to be more versatile and pass back and forth between different members depending on the situation (Mienshao was the 3rd member for that one). I think the highest streak I managed with any of them was somewhere in the 70's - it's a strategy that will get you to the Chatelaine with a little bit of practice, but it hits a serious wall as soon as you start having to deal with legendaries with any sort of regularity. Magic Bounce is a tremendous boon to the strategy, but ultimately Espeon is too fragile to be a serious linchpin for the team - no matter how many Defense boosts you collect, the next crit that lands is still going to do way more damage than you can afford, if it doesn't KO you outright. Maybe if I could spare a move slot for Substitute that would be OK, but I just don't know how I'd do that.

With regards to Roar defense - have you considered Explosion? Lickilicky's Explosion with even just a Silk Scarf will KO almost anything that doesn't resist it, and it has enough bulk not to be KO'd outright by pretty much any move that isn't named Close Combat or High Jump Kick, all without worrying about allowing things to set up in your face. Obviously it comes with its own set of concerns (it fails outright against Ghosts), but it's another angle to consider. (Personally, I like Azelf suicide leads - fast enough to be a threat in its own right, and still packs an Explosion that will take out even some relatively bulky legendaries.)

Or you could try Ingrain passing with Smeargle. =P

 

[turskain]

spidey-widey, Whirlwind/Roar is mostly used by Skarmory4 after battle 40. There are a few set1-3s on special trainers that also carry a phazing move, but they're very rare. Making it through 110 battles without seeing the AI use Whirlwind sounds pretty reasonable.

Scolipede has a Jolly nature - does it need the Speed over getting a little more bulk with a Defense-boosting nature? I'd consider Leftovers over Mental Herb to get more opportunities for a free Substitute. Taunt sucks, but since Scolipede only needs 1-2 free turns to use Baton Pass and the rest of the team has attacking moves, it could still be manageable. Is Steamroller really useful? You could have a perfectly accurate Toxic in its place and be able to stall a lot of things to death with Sub/Protect and Leftovers, for example.

Vaporeon would lose out on its Lefties, though - maybe something like Mega Audino could work in its place. You'd lose out on Haze, but between Sub/Protect stall with Toxic, Destiny Bond and Gliscor, there's already some good options against set-up sweepers.

Edit: oops, you already mentioned Scolipede's Speed and Toxic in your post. Still, I believe the combination of Toxic and Leftovers on Scolipede would be a large improvement - I think it would be enough for a 200-win streak, at least.

 

[faith_grins]

Is Steamroller really useful? You could have a perfectly accurate Toxic in its place and be able to stall a lot of things to death with Sub/Protect and Leftovers, for example.

Vaporeon would lose out on its Lefties, though...

Porque no los dos? You can just hand Scolipede a Black Sludge and keep Vaporeon with its lefties.

 

[spidey-widey]

Or you could try Ingrain passing with Smeargle. =P

Ha, that was actually something I considered while making my team. And by "considered", I mean that I acknowledged the possibility and promptly dismissed it.

I love your explosion idea, though - I hadn't considered that at all. (Kind of weird that I looked for a "suicide mon" without ever thinking of that!) The few damage calcs I've run with Lickilicky explosion have me impressed. If I'm super worried about ghosts, I guess Mega Glalie's refrigerate explosion could do some serious damage without really being shrugged off by anything, though Mega Glalie is probably also more liable to faint before exploding. Lickilicky with knock off (and a life orb, maybe?) would be helpful even against ghosts.

spidey-widey, Whirlwind/Roar is mostly used by Skarmory4 after battle 40. There are a few set1-3s on special trainers that also carry a phazing move, but they're very rare. Making it through 110 battles without seeing the AI use Whirlwind sounds pretty reasonable.

Ah, that's good to know. Beyond battle ~40, most of the foes seemed to be set 4s - that is a general trend rather than an anomaly in my streak, right?

Anyhow, it sounds like I may have been overprepared for phazing and taunt. The prospect of Scolipede being taunted still makes me shudder a bit, but I've implemented you guys' suggestions by giving Scolipede both toxic and black sludge. Naturally, Scolipede was taunted in the very first battle after making this change, but I'd definitely say that this has been an improvement (and that taunt was, indeed, not too terrible to deal with). I've only used toxic once so far, but my new streak is still young, and it's good to know that Scolipede can actually do something useful after baton passing. (While X-Scissor would've been an improvement over steamroller for sure, I think it would still just amount to chip damage in most cases.)

Speaking of the new streak, I've also been experimenting with dual screens Espeon in place of Sharpedo:

Espeon @ Focus Sash
Nature: Timid
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP, 4 SpA, 252 Spe
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Psychic
-Protect

Sharpedo is a monster for sure, but I figure that it rarely accomplishes anything that Gliscor can't do after it gets in several swords dances. Espeon's screen support, on the other hand, seems to drastically improve the survivability of Scolipede's and Gliscor's subs. Unfortunately, I'm practically forced to use a sash instead of clay, since Espeon fainting prematurely would prevent me from baton passing; similarly, it's often difficult to set up more than one screen for Scolipede. However, even just one screen is really helpful. My strategy usually revolves around the AI eventually doing something that doesn't break Scolipede's sub, and any screen support at all greatly improves the probability of this happening. I'm not completely decided on whether I should keep Espeon over Sharpedo, but this has been working nicely so far. The following battle is an example of this team working well:

QZ9W-WWWW-WW24-FMML

I may yet be adjusting Scolipede's EVs, though. Previously, I'd considered lowering its HP from 165 to 157 so that one Vaporeon wish could let it create three more subs. With black sludge, though, this becomes less of a concern. From the standpoint of substitute and black sludge recovery, perhaps 161 would be ideal?

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

Ah, that's good to know. Beyond battle ~40, most of the foes seemed to be set 4s - that is a general trend rather than an anomaly in my streak, right?

Quite right. On the first page of this thread you'll find links to posts that elaborate on this, and give the names of trainers that use more than Set4 pokes, as well as their theme, if any. While most of the themed teams that break this rule will use pokes that give their set away (such as a Chef using a Goodra) their frontlines may not be obvious indicators, so memorizing the names is important.

The two Furisode Girls encountered past 40 are all but guaranteed to have pokes using sets 1-3, and Veterans will often have 1-2, of course.

One of the most dangerous names not to recognize is Anastasia, the Hex Maniac who uses both Set 3 and 4; you can run a calc on one opponent using its Set 4 build and get predictable results, because it IS Set 4, while its cohorts may be otherwise.

Since your team especially dislikes phazing, the Punk who exclusively uses Intimidate pokemon is able to run the Luxray set containing Roar.

 

[Shiny Dratini]

Hey all, I have a fairly interesting war story. First ever, wooo! I've been working on a streak for the past two weeks or so with the team created by Jumpman16 in Super Singles, Kangliscune. I'll bold any changes I have, since I was somewhat lazy and used pre-bred mons from my box (except for Suicune, which I soft-reset for). I won't spend too much time on the team, since Jumpman has said more already than I could say.

Kangliscune

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy -> Parental Bond
EVs: 252Atk/4Def/252Spe
Lv. 50 (Mega)stats: 180/177/121/63/120/167(156 pre-Mega)
Nature: Jolly
~ Return
~ Power-Up Punch
~ Sucker Punch
~ Earthquake

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 196HP/252Def/60Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/30/29/31
Lv. 50 stats: 200/85/183/110/134/113
Nature: Bold
~ Scald
~ Icy Wind
~ Calm Mind
~ Rest

Glisor (F) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244HP/252Def/12Spe
Lv. 50 stats: 181/115/194/46/95/117
Nature: Impish
~ Earthquake
~ Toxic
~ Substitute
~ Protect

My streak is up to 145 and I've had a lot of fun with Kangliscune, so thanks Jumpman! Now I don't have too much experience, but I've tried to play conservatively. Anyways, let me know if there is any different way I could have played this battle.

The Battle

Enter from the left, Veteran Jake.

So I've faced Jake before and I look up to be sure, he's got the Legendary Sets 1 and 2. Nothing I haven't dealt with before, but a little nerve wracking. He sends out Virizion.

Virizion1 is a little scary, but the real threat is the Virizion2 Calm Mind set, especially since I'm using a defensive Gliscor.

Turn 1 - Obvious switch is obvious
Switch to Gliscor
Virizion uses Focus Blast, 25% damage
Toxic orb activates

The threat is real, it's Virizion2.

Turn 2 - This is where things get interesting. I figure Virizion can break my sub every time with Energy Ball and I don't want to Protect on a Calm Mind, so I go straight for Toxic.
Virizion uses Calm Mind, +1/+1
Gliscor uses Toxic, Toxic misses
Poison Heal recovery, Gliscor's at 158/181

Crap, now I'm panicking a little bit.

Turn 3 - I think the nerves got to me here, I didn't think before pressing Toxic again.
Virizion uses Calm Mind, +2/+2
Gliscor uses Toxic, Toxic misses
PH recovery to 180/181

Wow, 1% chance and it happens against Virizion? I figure it's GG at this point. I decide to step back and run some calcs; they don't look pretty:

+2 0 SpA Virizion Energy Ball vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 118-139 (65.1 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

+2 0 SpA Virizion Energy Ball vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor on a critical hit: 177-208 (97.7 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (87.5% to KO as I'm at 180 HP)
This is where a specially defensive spread would have mattered. I can't even avoid a 2HKO with a double protect and min damage. Jumpman's Gliscor, for reference, has this calc:

+2 0 SpA Virizion Energy Ball vs. 236 HP / 252 SpD Gliscor: 88-105 (48.8 - 58.3%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
which has a 6/16 chance of surviving after a max damage roll 2 turns of PH.

I really should have taken a step back last turn and thought through it a bit, but it may not have changed the outcome. I figure I lost this in my teambuilding laziness. Anyways, the only other move that made sense was to sub up and get some buffer room to stall with Toxic, but I was vulnerable to being attacked anyways. I now have a few choices:

1. Toxic again. 90% chance of hitting, 8.75% to be KO'd outright. So I have an 81.25% chance of a successful turn. From there, I see how many Protects I can get off and hope Focus Blast misses Kanga once Gliscor goes down.
2. Substitute. I'm thinking at this point though the AI won't be too greedy, but you never know.
3. Switch stalling won't accomplish much since Virizion would take too much health with each hit. I need to stay in.

Turn 4 - Third time's the charm.
Virizion uses Energy Ball, 180 - 124 = 56 HP
Gliscor uses Toxic, Virizion is badly poisoned!
PH recovery to 78 HP
Virizion down 1/16

I got a pretty good roll on the Energy Ball damage and now I have it on a timer. Virizion has 6 turns counting it's Sitrus berry, so I'm thinking now I Protect, Protect, switch to Kanga, switch to Gliscor (does it live?), Protect. Let's math this up:

166 - 10 = 156 - 21 (Protect) = 145 - 31 (Protect) = 114 - 42 (switch) + 42 (Sitrus) = 114 - 52 (switch #2) = 62, Protect and it dies.

+2 0 SpA Virizion Focus Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 78-93 (43 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

I should be at 102 HP on the switch, so barring any crits and assuming the second Protect works, I'll be good.

Turn 5
Gliscor used Protect
Virizion used Focus Blast
PH to 100 HP
Virizion down 1/8, at around 13/16

AI predicting the switch. Classic.

Turn 6 - Coin flip
Gliscor used Protect, but it failed
Virizion used Energy Ball
Gliscor fainted
Virizion to 10/16
I send out Kangkaskhan

Shit. I'm hopeful for a Focus Miss, that's about all that will save me now. I'm going to have to switch to Suicune and tank it. If it misses I can follow up with an Icy Wind or Rest as Energy ball has a good chance not to OHKO

+2 0 SpA Virizion Energy Ball vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 168-200 (84 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO*
*includes the unfortunate 29 SpD IV that gives it a chance to OHKO

Turn 7
Switch to Suicune
Virizion used Focus Blast
The sweetest words I've seen in a while come up:
Suicune avoided the attack
Poison damage and Sitrus Berry cancel, Virizion at 10/16

Finally the break I needed! My plan now is to Rest off the damage and switch to take one Energy Ball better. I thought about switching now and Sucker Punching, but Virizion is not going to be in range and will die from Toxic after the next turn.

Turn 8
Virizion used Toxic, Suicune is badly poisoned
Suicune used Rest, but it failed
Both take Toxic damage, Virizion at 5/16, Suicune at 15/16

Dang, I could have had a free Icy Wind! I now have a 10/16 chance of surviving Energy Ball, and I think I have to take it. I'll Rest again and hopefully have 2 full health team members.

Turn 9
Virizion used Energy Ball, Suicune lives with 18 HP
Suicune used Rest, Suicune slept and became healthy
Virizion fainted, Jake sends out Heatran

Booyah, I outspeed Heatran! This is where I boost and turn the tables on Jake! This is now the worst that can happen if it's Set 2:

252+ SpA Charcoal Heatran Overheat vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Suicune on a critical hit: 99-117 (49.5 - 58.5%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Turn 10 - Naptime
Heatran used Earth Power (Set 1)
Suicune takes lefties to 159 HP

Turn 11 - Identical
Suicune at 112

Great, no Special Defense drops. I need to make sure I'm protected from a crit, so I think I'll CM once, then sleep again.

252+ SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Suicune on a critical hit: 77-91 (38.5 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Turn 12
Suicune used Calm Mind
Heatran used Earth Power, it's a critical hit!
Suicune at 37

Man, 88 damage on that sucks. I'll speed up the next couple of turns though, I should be able to get to +6/+6 eventually.

Turns 13-22
Pretty standard, Suicune only has to Rest the one more time thanks to Pressure and 2HKOs through Heatran's sash.
Jake sends out Cresselia
Suicune is at 149 HP

Turn 23
Suicune used Scald, Cresselia is burned
Cresselia used Toxic, Suicune avoided the attack

Nice and haxy, in my favour. It's inconsequential, but the burn allows me to 2HKO.

Turn 24
Suicune used Scald
Cresselia fainted

So, overall I think I did well with this battle. I had some crappy hax to start but Kangliscune is amazing for overcoming it. This exemplifies why I've really enjoyed playing this team.

I think there were some mistakes or other ways I could have played around my problems, at least. I definitely need to rebreed Gliscor and I'll probably think through the entire team before battling more on Singles. I would love to get to 200 but I don't see myself getting a really long streak before tweaking the team. I'll probably personalize it as well so I'm not completely stealing from Jumpman.

I also am aware I got really lucky on Jake's Pokemon after Virizion. If I had encountered another Muskateer, any of the genies, or Zapdos, I would have been screwed. This was a good lesson and 'm glad I came away from it with a win.

Anyways, this was fun in the end and I hope it was an enjoyable read. Here's the tl;dr version in the form of the Battle Video:

XLEG-WWWW-WW24-N5JQ

Again, any advice or comments would be amazing, especially about the Turn 2-4 Toxic vs. Substitute and the Turn 6 double Protect. Thanks in advance!

 

[Lumari]

Hey all, I have a fairly interesting war story. First ever, wooo! I've been working on a streak for the past two weeks or so with the team created by Jumpman16 in Super Singles, Kangliscune. I'll bold any changes I have, since I was somewhat lazy and used pre-bred mons from my box (except for Suicune, which I soft-reset for). I won't spend too much time on the team, since Jumpman has said more already than I could say.

Kangliscune

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy -> Parental Bond
EVs: 252Atk/4Def/252Spe
Lv. 50 (Mega)stats: 180/177/121/63/120/167(156 pre-Mega)
Nature: Jolly
~ Return
~ Power-Up Punch
~ Sucker Punch
~ Earthquake

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 196HP/252Def/60Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/30/29/31
Lv. 50 stats: 200/85/183/110/134/113
Nature: Bold
~ Scald
~ Icy Wind
~ Calm Mind
~ Rest

Glisor (F) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244HP/252Def/12Spe
Lv. 50 stats: 181/115/194/46/95/117
Nature: Impish
~ Earthquake
~ Toxic
~ Substitute
~ Protect

My streak is up to 145 and I've had a lot of fun with Kangliscune, so thanks Jumpman! Now I don't have too much experience, but I've tried to play conservatively. Anyways, let me know if there is any different way I could have played this battle.

The Battle

Enter from the left, Veteran Jake.

So I've faced Jake before and I look up to be sure, he's got the Legendary Sets 1 and 2. Nothing I haven't dealt with before, but a little nerve wracking. He sends out Virizion.

Virizion1 is a little scary, but the real threat is the Virizion2 Calm Mind set, especially since I'm using a defensive Gliscor.

Turn 1 - Obvious switch is obvious
Switch to Gliscor
Virizion uses Focus Blast, 25% damage
Toxic orb activates

The threat is real, it's Virizion2.

Turn 2 - This is where things get interesting. I figure Virizion can break my sub every time with Energy Ball and I don't want to Protect on a Calm Mind, so I go straight for Toxic.
Virizion uses Calm Mind, +1/+1
Gliscor uses Toxic, Toxic misses
Poison Heal recovery, Gliscor's at 158/181

Crap, now I'm panicking a little bit.

Turn 3 - I think the nerves got to me here, I didn't think before pressing Toxic again.
Virizion uses Calm Mind, +2/+2
Gliscor uses Toxic, Toxic misses
PH recovery to 180/181

Wow, 1% chance and it happens against Virizion? I figure it's GG at this point. I decide to step back and run some calcs; they don't look pretty:

+2 0 SpA Virizion Energy Ball vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 118-139 (65.1 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

+2 0 SpA Virizion Energy Ball vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor on a critical hit: 177-208 (97.7 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (87.5% to KO as I'm at 180 HP)
This is where a specially defensive spread would have mattered. I can't even avoid a 2HKO with a double protect and min damage. Jumpman's Gliscor, for reference, has this calc:

+2 0 SpA Virizion Energy Ball vs. 236 HP / 252 SpD Gliscor: 88-105 (48.8 - 58.3%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
which has a 6/16 chance of surviving after a max damage roll 2 turns of PH.

I really should have taken a step back last turn and thought through it a bit, but it may not have changed the outcome. I figure I lost this in my teambuilding laziness. Anyways, the only other move that made sense was to sub up and get some buffer room to stall with Toxic, but I was vulnerable to being attacked anyways. I now have a few choices:

1. Toxic again. 90% chance of hitting, 8.75% to be KO'd outright. So I have an 81.25% chance of a successful turn. From there, I see how many Protects I can get off and hope Focus Blast misses Kanga once Gliscor goes down.
2. Substitute. I'm thinking at this point though the AI won't be too greedy, but you never know.
3. Switch stalling won't accomplish much since Virizion would take too much health with each hit. I need to stay in.

Turn 4 - Third time's the charm.
Virizion uses Energy Ball, 180 - 124 = 56 HP
Gliscor uses Toxic, Virizion is badly poisoned!
PH recovery to 78 HP
Virizion down 1/16

I got a pretty good roll on the Energy Ball damage and now I have it on a timer. Virizion has 6 turns counting it's Sitrus berry, so I'm thinking now I Protect, Protect, switch to Kanga, switch to Gliscor (does it live?), Protect. Let's math this up:

166 - 10 = 156 - 21 (Protect) = 145 - 31 (Protect) = 114 - 42 (switch) + 42 (Sitrus) = 114 - 52 (switch #2) = 62, Protect and it dies.

+2 0 SpA Virizion Focus Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 78-93 (43 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

I should be at 102 HP on the switch, so barring any crits and assuming the second Protect works, I'll be good.

Turn 5
Gliscor used Protect
Virizion used Focus Blast
PH to 100 HP
Virizion down 1/8, at around 13/16

AI predicting the switch. Classic.

Turn 6 - Coin flip
Gliscor used Protect, but it failed
Virizion used Energy Ball
Gliscor fainted
Virizion to 10/16
I send out Kangkaskhan

Shit. I'm hopeful for a Focus Miss, that's about all that will save me now. I'm going to have to switch to Suicune and tank it. If it misses I can follow up with an Icy Wind or Rest as Energy ball has a good chance not to OHKO

+2 0 SpA Virizion Energy Ball vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 168-200 (84 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO*
*includes the unfortunate 29 SpD IV that gives it a chance to OHKO

Turn 7
Switch to Suicune
Virizion used Focus Blast
The sweetest words I've seen in a while come up:
Suicune avoided the attack
Poison damage and Sitrus Berry cancel, Virizion at 10/16

Finally the break I needed! My plan now is to Rest off the damage and switch to take one Energy Ball better. I thought about switching now and Sucker Punching, but Virizion is not going to be in range and will die from Toxic after the next turn.

Turn 8
Virizion used Toxic, Suicune is badly poisoned
Suicune used Rest, but it failed
Both take Toxic damage, Virizion at 5/16, Suicune at 15/16

Dang, I could have had a free Icy Wind! I now have a 10/16 chance of surviving Energy Ball, and I think I have to take it. I'll Rest again and hopefully have 2 full health team members.

Turn 9
Virizion used Energy Ball, Suicune lives with 18 HP
Suicune used Rest, Suicune slept and became healthy
Virizion fainted, Jake sends out Heatran

Booyah, I outspeed Heatran! This is where I boost and turn the tables on Jake! This is now the worst that can happen if it's Set 2:

252+ SpA Charcoal Heatran Overheat vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Suicune on a critical hit: 99-117 (49.5 - 58.5%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Turn 10 - Naptime
Heatran used Earth Power (Set 1)
Suicune takes lefties to 159 HP

Turn 11 - Identical
Suicune at 112

Great, no Special Defense drops. I need to make sure I'm protected from a crit, so I think I'll CM once, then sleep again.

252+ SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Suicune on a critical hit: 77-91 (38.5 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Turn 12
Suicune used Calm Mind
Heatran used Earth Power, it's a critical hit!
Suicune at 37

Man, 88 damage on that sucks. I'll speed up the next couple of turns though, I should be able to get to +6/+6 eventually.

Turns 13-22
Pretty standard, Suicune only has to Rest the one more time thanks to Pressure and 2HKOs through Heatran's sash.
Jake sends out Cresselia
Suicune is at 149 HP

Turn 23
Suicune used Scald, Cresselia is burned
Cresselia used Toxic, Suicune avoided the attack

Nice and haxy, in my favour. It's inconsequential, but the burn allows me to 2HKO.

Turn 24
Suicune used Scald
Cresselia fainted

So, overall I think I did well with this battle. I had some crappy hax to start but Kangliscune is amazing for overcoming it. This exemplifies why I've really enjoyed playing this team.

I think there were some mistakes or other ways I could have played around my problems, at least. I definitely need to rebreed Gliscor and I'll probably think through the entire team before battling more on Singles. I would love to get to 200 but I don't see myself getting a really long streak before tweaking the team. I'll probably personalize it as well so I'm not completely stealing from Jumpman.

I also am aware I got really lucky on Jake's Pokemon after Virizion. If I had encountered another Muskateer, any of the genies, or Zapdos, I would have been screwed. This was a good lesson and 'm glad I came away from it with a win.

Anyways, this was fun in the end and I hope it was an enjoyable read. Here's the tl;dr version in the form of the Battle Video:

XLEG-WWWW-WW24-N5JQ

Again, any advice or comments would be amazing, especially about the Turn 2-4 Toxic vs. Substitute and the Turn 6 double Protect. Thanks in advance!

As for advice, after the Toxic misses it would probably have made more sense to just Sub / Protect stall with Gliscor. Toxicing Virizion2 is the preferred play with Gliscor (at least it's how I handle it with my team) just in order to save a lot of PP (a Gliscor behind a sub with a bunch of PP remaining is usually a guaranteed win against Veterans) and because it doesn't pose an immediate threat; however, after that double miss, you were about to get 2HKOed, and Gliscor still has easily enough Sub / Protect PP to completely stall out Virizion2 (needs 21 to do so, 10 Energy Ball + 5 Focus Blast + 6 at most Calm Mind, some of which it had already used, so 32 is easily enough). If you had just used Sub / Protect after the initial miss until it ran out of attacking PP, you could have switched to Kangaskhan or Suicune for a guaranteed +6 (maybe not that much in Khan's case cause Toxic but whatever), without any risk whatsoever. Don't underestimate Gliscor :3

 

[Shiny Dratini]

As for advice, after the Toxic misses it would probably have made more sense to just Sub / Protect stall with Gliscor. Toxicing Virizion2 is the preferred play with Gliscor (at least it's how I handle it with my team) just in order to save a lot of PP (a Gliscor behind a sub with a bunch of PP remaining is usually a guaranteed win against Veterans) and because it doesn't pose an immediate threat; however, after that double miss, you were about to get 2HKOed, and Gliscor still has easily enough Sub / Protect PP to completely stall out Virizion2 (needs 21 to do so, 10 Energy Ball + 5 Focus Blast + 6 at most Calm Mind, some of which it had already used, so 32 is easily enough). If you had just used Sub / Protect after the initial miss until it ran out of attacking PP, you could have switched to Kangaskhan or Suicune for a guaranteed +6, without any risk whatsoever. Don't underestimate Gliscor :3

That's a really good point, it never even crossed my mind (I think I assumed Energy Ball had 15 PP). I don't usually think to PP stall except for with Suicune, so I suppose I could have saved myself a headache there. I think I also have a tendency to go for the quicker option since I used to use a TruAnt team in Unova and XY and got bored of all the turns it took :P

Anyways, I'll keep that in mind for next time and hopefully I have a bit more patience than I did with this.

 

[sunzet-therian forme]

Ive been theoryizing with a truant team for awhile and came up with a team that seems gimmicky but i think it has a chance at getting to atleast a couple hundred. Im posting about it because i want usful advice especially from experts like VaporeonIce and GG Unit.

The team

Loppuny@Lopunite
Klutz->Scrappy
Jolly
Fake out
Low sweep
Encore
Substitute
252HP/36Def/220Spe

Durant@Occa berry
Truant
Careful
Xscissor
Iron head
Entrainment
Protect
252Hp/252SpD/4Spe

Drapion@Black sludge
Battle armor
Adamant
Knock off
Acupressure
Substitute
Protect
252Hp/252Atk/4SpD

My main idea was to vmake Durant bulky using low sweep to slow opponents down. Durant's 4spe eve allow it to out speed every Pokemon after 1low sweep. I chose mega lopunny because it has scraapy low sweep allowing it to slow even ghost down and it was better than pangoro. I also used substitute on M-Lopunny to block status (Thanks vaporeonice). Fake out was used so I could get the speed boost without be harmed. I could of used protect but fake out has the damage, so I went with that.

Again, advice is always helpful.

 

[VaporeonIce]

Ive been theoryizing with a truant team for awhile and came up with a team that seems gimmicky but i think it has a chance at getting to atleast a couple hundred. Im posting about it because i want usful advice especially from experts like VaporeonIce and GG Unit.

The team

Loppuny@Lopunite
Klutz->Scrappy
Jolly
Fake out
Low sweep
Encore
Substitute
252HP/36Def/220Spe

Durant@Occa berry
Truant
Careful
Xscissor
Iron head
Entrainment
Protect
252Hp/252SpD/4Spe

Drapion@Black sludge
Battle armor
Adamant
Knock off
Acupressure
Substitute
Protect
252Hp/252Atk/4SpD

My main idea was to vmake Durant bulky using low sweep to slow opponents down. Durant's 4spe eve allow it to out speed every Pokemon after 1low sweep. I chose mega lopunny because it has scraapy low sweep allowing it to slow even ghost down and it was better than pangoro. I also used substitute on M-Lopunny to block status (Thanks vaporeonice). Fake out was used so I could get the speed boost without be harmed. I could of used protect but fake out has the damage, so I went with that.

Again, advice is always helpful.

I feel like this makes more problems than it solves. Durant fails to outspeed a lot of -1 Speed opponents, including Accelgor 4 (who has Protect), Manectric 4 (who can paralyze), Pinsir 4 (who rarely uses Guillotine, but can kill you if it does), and Braviary 3 (who can OHKO with a crit Brave Bird). It doesn't really solve the typical problems of High Jump Kick and Explosion users, though giving Mega Lopunny Protect might be more useful here, since it can actually force HJK users to self-KO with Protect, Sub, Protect. You might be lucky enough to have them Explode into Lopunny's Sub as well, but it's pretty iffy. Bright Powder is just as annoying as ever; while the extra bulk helps Durant survive, it will still have to take two hits before getting another chance, one of which might paralyze. Prankster Taunt (from Tornadus and Thundurus) makes you instantly lose, but is rare enough that you can probably get to 200 without running into it. You don't have any defense against Poison Heal Breloom 4, and if non-Poison Heal Breloom 4 uses Focus Punch on turn 1 (or turn 2, if you Fake Out on turn 1), you don't have anything to stop its Sub+Protect combo either. Substitute in general messes you up; while many of them can be broken by Mega Lopunny's Low Sweep, Tornadus 2 can set them up with Prankster (after knocking out Lopunny). That said, you can Encore the Sub and try to repeatedly break them while the AI keeps setting them up again, which could theoretically work.

Above all, I'm not really sure what you get out of making Durant bulky. Surviving a hit that would somehow prevent it from using Entrainment isn't something you should be doing in the first place, because you still have to take another hit (or two) before you can try again. I guess your odds might slightly improve against some lame Protect users like Abomasnow, but you should be Encoring most of them into a different move anyway. While having Durant healthy and alive to switch back in can be useful when something goes wrong (like a lead using Explosion against Drapion), the complete lack of speed means that it's more likely to have to take TWO hits before it can try Entrainment again (one when you're switching out Drapion, the other when it gets outsped on the Entrainment turn).

By all means, you're welcome to try it and see how it goes. I've never used this specific team and I've only used two Durant teams, so I can't say how much success this can have (GG Unit would have a better idea). But I'm pretty skeptical. Mega Lop's ability to (potentially) block Explosions with Sub, Encore the enemy's Protect to stall out its PP, and use Protect+Sub to beat HJK users does seem kind of cool, but the lack of an answer for Bright Powder/Lax Incense, Breloom 4, and Tornadus 2 is annoying. That said, I think it could work. I'd switch to fast Choice Scarf Durant.

Watch out for Volcarona 4; a turn 1 Quiver Dance puts you in a bad spot. You can Encore it and give it Entrainment, but you're forced to Protect every other turn with Drapion, lest it use Bug Buzz at the wrong time (see my 1175 loss). This can prevent you from setting up all the Acupressures you want. Speed Boost Blaziken 4 is also an issue; it can accumulate Speed Boosts and knock out Mega Lop when it has enough speed to outspeed and OHKO Durant (since it will get two boosts every Flame Charge turn and you'll only lower its Speed by one stage).

 

[sunzet-therian forme]

I feel like this makes more problems than it solves. Durant fails to outspeed a lot of -1 Speed opponents, including Accelgor 4 (who has Protect), Manectric 4 (who can paralyze), Pinsir 4 (who rarely uses Guillotine, but can kill you if it does), and Braviary 3 (who can OHKO with a crit Brave Bird).

I honestly thought speed was cut in half. Oh well. It would still work but you would still have to give it 212Spe evs plus jolly to outseed everything. The only real bulk I would gain would be the item. I still want to try though so I'll see how far I can get.

EDIT: I just had a new idea. Does the Durant supporter really need to be prankster? What about this thing.

Accelgor@Focus sash
Unburden
Jolly
Knock off
Final gambit
Yawn
Encore
252Hp/36Def/220Spe

Taking my yawn Idea from Liepard, it doesn't have prankster but it is insanely fast and after unburden its the fastest. I was thinking that if you had a self KO move you could guarantee yourself getting to entrainment(Since you don't have to worry about the opponent not killing you cuz of a miss or something).

Just an idea.