-
Snag some vintage SPL team logo merch over at our Teespring store before January 12th!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Battle Maison Discussion & Records
- Thread starter NoCheese
- Start date
Thinking of tinkering with the EVs on my Kangaskhan... right now the spread is 252 ATK/252 SPD/6HP.
Should I maybe max out HP and split the rest between DEF/SP DEF? Mega Kanga has very solid overall stats, and I was thinking it might be a good idea to buff up its defenses even more.
Should I maybe max out HP and split the rest between DEF/SP DEF? Mega Kanga has very solid overall stats, and I was thinking it might be a good idea to buff up its defenses even more.
Well, I am at 150 in super singles with Jumpman's Haxorus/Suicune/Scizor team (didn't bother to take a pic as I will get a lot higher). Amazing team to say the least. I have only run into trouble due to truly ridiculous hax but no team can guard perfectly against that. Funnily enough, battle 50 against Chatelaine Nita was probably the most difficult fight as she lead with Tornadus and started spamming priority DT immediately. Usually Cune just laughs at these DT spammers and stalls them out but you can't really do that reliably against STAB Hurricane.
Anyways, I decided I could probably get to 600+ with this team but it wouldn't feel like much of an achievement just copying Jumpman. After all, the hard part about this is planning out a team that maximises your win chance against any possible opponents. Once you have a team like this it pretty much just plays itself in 90% of battles (the other 10% requiring only a bit of thought about how to manipulate the AI and checking stuff in the damage calculator). So, I've been trying for a while to find a "bulky-setup" themed team that could rival Suizorus' insane efficiency.
Unfortunately, after a lot of theorymon I have a couple of conjectures about this goal:
1) The lead must be either DD Haxorus or DD Dragonite and it must hold Lum Berry. DD Mence also works but is simply outclassed by Dragonite now. 80/80 defenses + Intimidate is significantly worse than 95/100 + Multiscale. Moxie sounds nice on paper, but after a DD you're usually OHKOing everything anyway so it would only be useful when you're forced to attack on turn one. Nothing else comes close to these guys when it comes to both surviving one hit to setup and dishing out ridiculous damage to just about anything with Outrage/EQ
2) The team must contain a bulky water with access to Scald to support the lead against Blizzard users and defend against freeze hax in general. And considering Suicune is unquestionably the top dog (ha) for this role, it would be foolish to gimp myself and not use it
I say "unfortunately" because this means my team isn't going to be that different to Suizorus and the leaderboard is already full of Dragonite teams. Quite frankly, I am really surprised there are so many Dragonite teams in the list of top streaks that don't contain a counter to freeze hax, but all credit to the people who managed to get those streaks!
On the bright side, I do have two ideas at the moment for the third team member that I believe could be just as effective as Mega Scizor. Hopefully I will be posting with a 600+ streak soon enough!
Anyways, I decided I could probably get to 600+ with this team but it wouldn't feel like much of an achievement just copying Jumpman. After all, the hard part about this is planning out a team that maximises your win chance against any possible opponents. Once you have a team like this it pretty much just plays itself in 90% of battles (the other 10% requiring only a bit of thought about how to manipulate the AI and checking stuff in the damage calculator). So, I've been trying for a while to find a "bulky-setup" themed team that could rival Suizorus' insane efficiency.
Unfortunately, after a lot of theorymon I have a couple of conjectures about this goal:
1) The lead must be either DD Haxorus or DD Dragonite and it must hold Lum Berry. DD Mence also works but is simply outclassed by Dragonite now. 80/80 defenses + Intimidate is significantly worse than 95/100 + Multiscale. Moxie sounds nice on paper, but after a DD you're usually OHKOing everything anyway so it would only be useful when you're forced to attack on turn one. Nothing else comes close to these guys when it comes to both surviving one hit to setup and dishing out ridiculous damage to just about anything with Outrage/EQ
2) The team must contain a bulky water with access to Scald to support the lead against Blizzard users and defend against freeze hax in general. And considering Suicune is unquestionably the top dog (ha) for this role, it would be foolish to gimp myself and not use it
I say "unfortunately" because this means my team isn't going to be that different to Suizorus and the leaderboard is already full of Dragonite teams. Quite frankly, I am really surprised there are so many Dragonite teams in the list of top streaks that don't contain a counter to freeze hax, but all credit to the people who managed to get those streaks!
On the bright side, I do have two ideas at the moment for the third team member that I believe could be just as effective as Mega Scizor. Hopefully I will be posting with a 600+ streak soon enough!
Oooh, I bet it's Aegislash. artic is absolutely right that the Dragonite + Aegislash combo is insanely effective and, played properly, are probably about as good as it gets.
Not sure what the other one is, but you'll want it to be something to take rogue Outrages (a crit Outrage from Garchomp can OHKO Dragonite through Multiscale), so maybe Mega Mawile?
EDIT: It's worth noting that, in my experience, Aegislash pretty much counters freeze hax by itself, since it can usually just sit there stalling out their attacks until it thaws out. The only Pokemon that doesn't really work against are Glaceon and Froslass (because of Shadow Ball), both of whom are fairly bad against a lot of other common Pokemon (Azumarill, Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Scizor). Since most Pokemon can't OHKO Nite even with a STAB Ice move (252 Modest Lapras Ice Beam doesn't KO without a crit), just letting Dragonite stay in and set up is pretty reliable, and having a backup than can beat their Ice type is typically good enough to get you to at least 300 or so.
Last edited:
Aegislash is definitely awesome, I'm just slightly put off by it having 4 weaknesses... and with only 60 base speed, it really needs a better priority move than Shadow Sneak. That being said, I really like that it counters Starmie, in particular Starmie4 (Timid max SpA/Spd Surf + boltbeam) which poses a big threat to Dragonite/Haxorus and Suicune.
I really wanted to make Volcarona work because Quiver Dance is amazing and it can tear through teams with a set like Quiver Dance/Flamethrower/Bug Buzz/Roost. It has decent survivability against neutral attacks, in particular it's easy to find openings to setup on neutral special attacks given that Quiver Dance also buffs SpD. Unfortunately, no priority and the crippling weaknesses to Water/Flying/Rock prevent it from being viable on a team that hopes to go really far.
I really wanted to make Volcarona work because Quiver Dance is amazing and it can tear through teams with a set like Quiver Dance/Flamethrower/Bug Buzz/Roost. It has decent survivability against neutral attacks, in particular it's easy to find openings to setup on neutral special attacks given that Quiver Dance also buffs SpD. Unfortunately, no priority and the crippling weaknesses to Water/Flying/Rock prevent it from being viable on a team that hopes to go really far.
Volcarona really needs more coverage, but if you run another move like hidden power rock/ground then you give up the valuable recovery that roost offers. I tried using leftovers and a Sitrus berry but neither were as good. It's just a classic case of 4MSS I'm afraid... He works much better in rotation where you can swap Pokemon and maintain your stat boosts I've found
I have a DragCune team on a 130 streak so far. I'm just waiting to lose before I do the write up. It will probably be sooner rather than later given that I just jinxed myself.
Made this Today x))) Maison Enemys THEY DO NOT!! ALWAYS RUN THE SAME SET/ITEM (met a garchomp with focus sash and one without!)
Fake Out Weavile, Shiftry
Air Ballon Electrode, Electivire, Luxray
Trick Room Bronzong (+Rock Slide +Hypnosis), Slowking, Dusknoir
Focus Sash Weavile, Shiftry, Garchomp (+Rough Skin), Dugtrio, Lucario, Froslass, Glaceon, Flareon, Heatran
Perish Song Lapras
Scarf Landorus
Explosion Forretress, Skuntank, Gigalith
ThunderWave
Will o wisp Chandelure (+Flame Body), Absol, Weezing
toxic Cresselia, Weezing
Prio Atk +1 Abomasnow Ice, Empoleon water,Feraligatr Water, Dusknoir Ghost, kryppuk ghost Manectric Normal
Prio Atk +2 Arcanine Normal
Specials Drifblim with low life prio berry + Aftermath, Haxorus Ice def Berry +Dragon Dance, Shiftry Sucker Punch, Gengar destiny bond, Dusknoir Destiny Bond, Cresselia with Double Team
top 10 iam coming x) i will make more maison notes which could be important.. lost my last streak at 195 :x
Fake Out Weavile, Shiftry
Air Ballon Electrode, Electivire, Luxray
Trick Room Bronzong (+Rock Slide +Hypnosis), Slowking, Dusknoir
Focus Sash Weavile, Shiftry, Garchomp (+Rough Skin), Dugtrio, Lucario, Froslass, Glaceon, Flareon, Heatran
Perish Song Lapras
Scarf Landorus
Explosion Forretress, Skuntank, Gigalith
ThunderWave
Will o wisp Chandelure (+Flame Body), Absol, Weezing
toxic Cresselia, Weezing
Prio Atk +1 Abomasnow Ice, Empoleon water,Feraligatr Water, Dusknoir Ghost, kryppuk ghost Manectric Normal
Prio Atk +2 Arcanine Normal
Specials Drifblim with low life prio berry + Aftermath, Haxorus Ice def Berry +Dragon Dance, Shiftry Sucker Punch, Gengar destiny bond, Dusknoir Destiny Bond, Cresselia with Double Team
top 10 iam coming x) i will make more maison notes which could be important.. lost my last streak at 195 :x
Last edited:
Have you looked at the link in the OP that's a giant spreadsheet of the Pokemon and their spreads? If you haven't, that should save you a lot of time.
Edit: This one https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgSyZW1zYKNJdFA0cTlFMGxhVm1YSlFkaGRoMzlmZEE#gid=0
In other news, I keep narrowly winning Rotation battles (current streak at 100), but I can't decide if I hate or love the format. I think it's a bit more fun that normal singles, but the AI is so ridiculous that I can't stand it half the time. Going for Leaf Storm when 2 of my Pokemon resist it, and I just happen to rotate in my Water type? Ridiculous :/
BATTLE MAISON 100 STREAK TEAM REVIEW:
Alright guys, so I’ve finally achieved the 100 streak I had been working towards. It was a VERY tedious and stressful challenge. Will I try for the 200 streak after this? Probably… Will I make it to 200? We’ll see…
Anyways, I figured I’d do an entire team review, along with my strategies and choices, my most tense battles, my mistakes, and overall what I can do different next time.
I’d also appreciate any and all feedback about my team, and some suggestions here and there. On future moves and such.
So, here we go!
MEGA KANGASKHAN
Mega Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy -> Parental Bond
Adamant
200 HP/252 Atk/56 Spd
-Sucker Punch
-Earthquake
-Return
-Power-Up Punch
Holy freaking cow. I could go on about how broken it is that this lady can attack twice per turn. Combined with it’s 105/100/100 bulk, even if my target managed to survive both strikes from this mother, there’s was a SOLID chance I wasn’t going to be taken down in one hit. I’ve survived several focus blasts from special attacking non-fighting type Pokemon with more than 20% health left. On top of this, Mega Kangaskhan’s decent base 100 speed allows it to move faster than a majority of threats I was facing.
Depending on my opponents lead, I almost always Mega Evolved Kangaskhan immediately. If I knew the opponent’s Pokemon couldn’t take down Mega Kangaskhan in one hit, I would start with Power-Up Punch to grab a nice x2 attack boost coupled with my attack. If I still had a good amount of health left, particularly because the opponent did something stupid or pointless at the time (like aqua ring, Sunny Day, Hail, Ingrain), I would use Return for the x2 attack boosted STAB Normal move. This would K.O. almost every threat of mine, even the more defensive Pokemon like Reuniclus and Gliscor. At this point in the match, I was pretty much prepared for Kangaskhan to sweep their team. Earthquake did well for me, using it towards opposing Poison, Rock, Fire, and Steel-types when I knew Power-Up Punch wouldn’t cut it. Sucker punch is pretty self-explanatory, as I would use it when I knew the foe was faster than me and/or I didn’t have much health left. This move was almost always used against faster Ghost and Psychic-types like Gengar and Latios. Overall, I went a decent number of battles with JUST Mega Kangaskhan, without a single switchout. This Pokemon no matter how you dress it up physically will almost NEVER disappoint you. She is just that great. Highly recommended in-game ‘Mon.
AEGISLASH
Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
Adamant
252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def
-King’s Shield
-Shadow Sneak
-Iron Head
-Sacred Sword
Weakness Policy was the way to go here. I was able to give up the need to have the swords dance boost and opt for a third attacking move for extra coverage. Generally, based on my EV spread, I was able to survive almost every non-boosted super effective move against the sword at full health, save for the super stab ‘Mons like Earthquake Mamoswine and for some reason Overheat Pyroar (this was a bitch to fight). Of course, if I suspected a super effective hit, depending if it was physical or not I would use King’s Shield ASAP for that extra attack decrease to the opponent. This allowed me to survive the next opponent’s attack and lash out with a Weakness Policy boosted Sacred Sword or Iron Head for the Dark and Ghost-type Pokemon, respectively. Sure after the foe faints I still have to face another threat with little health. But due to some stupid need for the computer like every third and fourth battle to throw in about 2-3 Pokemon of pretty much the SAME TYPE, I was able to swing in the same strategy again, or even just strike with my 2x boosted Shadow Sneak for a potential K.O. Seriously, I felt like the computer kept thinking that only ONE of my Pokemon was going to be left in the battle, allowing the AI to swarm me with three Pokemon my one guy is weak to. All in all, the sword was a great team member. I felt like the pairing of Mega Kangaskhan and Aeigslash made for great switch in combos and allowed me to preserve my powerhouse Kangaskhan for the rest of the match. Aegislash is definitely a recommended Pivot for any team.
LANDORUS-T
Landorus-T @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Naive
246 HP/ 172 Def/90 Spd
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-U-Turn
-Hidden Power Ice
Leftovers was probably the most basic item for Landorus-T to have, and works like heaven against those pesky Fighting-move switch ins, allowing the cool cat to regain the miniscule amount of health it lost upon the switch in. Stealth Rocks was a back-up option. If I happened to come across a U-Turning Pokemon, or just a Pokemon I wasn’t particularly terrified of. Earthquake is the go-to STAB move for Landorus, provided excellent force against physical Fire-types like Flareon that would’ve demolished Aegislash. U-Turn helped to trim the opponents little health if they were close to fainting, and allowed me to get a clean switch in to Kangaskhan to finish the rest of the team off. Hidden Power Ice was definitely helpful, but wasn’t as potent as an asset as Earthquake and U-Turn were. Obviously, HP Ice helped against those 4x weak-to-ice ‘Mons like Gliscor, Dragonite, and Salamence. It could never K.O. those guys, but it did enough damage to count. Plus, the intimidate attack drop allowed me to gracefully survive anything they were planning on setting up. In the end, Landorus-T had the necessary stats and capabilities to become another great Pivot to my core team.
WHAT HAPPENS IN THE BATTLE MAISON STAYS IN THE BATTLE MAISON
Obviously from my sets, my core team is almost 100% Phsyical in all attacks. This actually… worked very well. I figured there was to be a few physical walls here and there, particularly Gliscor, Cofagrigus, and the occasional Umbreon, but I knew I had the right moves to take out these baddies one-by-one. As I mentioned before, I did whatever I could in my power to get that 2x attack boost from Power-Up Punch on Mega K to sweep the rest of opponent’s team. Regardless of defensives, at this point I pretty much had the match. I could go on about how great my team worked, and like I said above, a majority of the victories were due to Mega Kangaskhan, who proved to be a strong, Pokemon woman who don’t need no trainer. …
Now, with all this sunshine and happiness came some really, REALLY dark and terrible things that I was fighting along the way to the 100 win streak. With that said, I’d like to take this time to point out a few things that really razzled my jimmies.
Will-O-Wisp. I would say status in general, especially paralysis, but to be exact Will-O-Wisp was the killer. I would see it come from a majority of ghosties, of course, being Gengar and Sableye. I saw a few Weezing and Dusknoir with WoW as well, and they most certainly were NOT fun to fight. When I found out I would be facing these threats, I would always ALWAYS want Mega K to handle the situation. The way I figured it, as I get burned and slowly lose health, I could rack up a few Power-Up Punches per turn with Scrappy to null some of the attack drop away.* On the subject of Will-O-Wisp, anything involving attack drops were incredibly damaging to my team. I tried my best to switch out as much as I could at those times, and tried to avoid as many WoW’s as possible. This is where a special-based Aegislash would’ve come in handy.
*In regards to that sentence, I figured I’d post this helpful tip: When fighting against Ghost-types, never EVER Mega Evolve Kangaskhan unless you are 100% sure the opponent isn’t going to Will-O-Wisp you. The idea is to rack up at least one punch against a gengar with your Scrappy ability in case it WoW’s you. That way, you have one boost in to give you some decent attack power to fight with. Afterwards, You can go in for a Return to take out a passable amount of health from Gengar. Depending on where you are health wise at that point, if you are low on health, proceed to Mega evolve Kangaskhan next turn and prepare a Sucker Punch, on the highly likely chance that you’ll be outsped and K.O’d by Gengar next turn. Repeat this with Sableye as well and you’ll be able to handle these ghosts in the most effective way possible.
Another issue of mine came from super-damaging special attacking moves (i.e. Overheat, Hyper Beam, Thunder, Blizzard, Fire Blast). That’s where a nice special wall like Goodra or Blissey would’ve been nice to have. I seriously ran into some stupid boosted Heat Wave/Overheat Pokemon like Moltres, Houndoom and Pyroar. Pyroar. This one threw me off completely. Not only was special fire a HUGE problem for Aegislash, but since Ground-types do not resist fire (and because he had low special defense), Overheat was a huge problem for Landorus as well. That’s two Pokemon that I always jeopardized against those ‘mons. During those battles, I would hope my full health Aegislash would survive with just enough power to strike back with Sacred Sword on Pyroar or Houndoom.
TIPS AND TRICKS FOR YOU GUYS
For anyone interested in my team’s inner workings and for those of you who may feel inspired by my team, I would be happy to share some super important tips and tricks which helped me get as far into the Maison as I got:
· My number one tip through the Maison is probably a given for veterans of the Battle Subway and Tower back in the day: If you see something, DO SOMETHING. What I mean by that is if you see a particular Pokemon enter the field that you’re pretty sure packs an out-of-left field super effective move to take out your starting Pokemon, THEN IT PROBABLY HAS THAT MOVE. Do plenty of research before and during your matches. See what moves your foe can have. If it can sport it, it most likely in all ways has that move specifically designed to kill your face.
· Think hard before you move. Don’t get carried away or let ego take you over. You want to remove all of your threats as fast as possible. Do not try and extend the battle, it could really mess you up.
· Save your close battle videos, the ones where you almost lost. Look back at what happened that you think you did wrong and learn from that.
· If you’re shooting for a high streak, go for Pokemon that do not have one or more of the same weaknesses. NOT a good idea. The computer will play something to screw you up in that regards. Not that it is hacking it to do so, but rather you’re bound to see two of the same type Pokemon that are waiting to thrash two of yours.
FEEDBACK AND SUCH
Overall I felt really pleased with my team. What I’m looking for right now are suggestions to improve it even further. I considered running a mixed set on Aegislash, but I always find it so helpful to have Shadow Sneak and Sacred Sword as moves. Would replacing Iron Head with Flash Cannon help any? If so I’m also interested in an EV spread along with that. Please and thanks.
On one final note, I will say whenever I lose next or if I do get to that 200 mark, I will update my information and ranking and any changes I made along the way with my team.
Good Luck to all, and thanks!
Here is my proof of my battle streak:
It seems like my luck ran out after a 161 streak, so here's my team. I am pleasantly surprised to have gotten a significantly better streak than in Battle Subway despite using pretty much the same team.
Darminatan @ Choice Scarf
31/31/31/x/31/31
6 hp / 252 att / 252 spe
lvl 50 stats: 181/211/75/31/75/147
Sheer Force
Adamant
-Flare Blitz
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-U-Turn
I am eternally thankful for whichever programmer gave Flare Blitz that 10% chance to burn. With STAB and the 1.3x Sheer Force boost figured in, hitting with a 243 power move off 140 attack 1HKO's almost the entire unresisted Maison. Choice Scarf allows Darminatan to outspeed the unboosted Maison and half of the scarfers. Those that do outspeed usually lock into a rock move for Garchomp to tank, are Garchomp and locks into the much better-for-me Earthquake, or is Pinsir. Water-types are generally set-up bait for Suicune, and most bulky enough to take a neutral shot are either ground for Suicune or Poison for Garchomp. Darm's job is to at worst either KO the first Pokemon and seriously weaken the second or get Chomp or Suicune in to set up.
Suicune @ Leftovers
31/12/23/19/26/31
252 hp / 252 def / 6 spa
lvl 50 stats: 207/86/179/105/133/94
Pressure
Relaxed (it was the giveaway Suicune)
-Scald
-Ice Beam
-Calm Mind
-Rest
Well, it's stats aren't perfect, it's nature isn't ideal, but dang if Suicune isn't the glue behind this team. Standard Maison Suicune isn't the most innovative Pokemon, but I love it. Nothing barring a 1HKO user beats a +6/+6 Suicune and it sets up effortlessly on almost any non-electric or non-grass Pokemon. Pressure is a great blessing since it means that a cycle of "CM twice, rest twice" is enough to stall out most Thunderbolts or physical STABs. Suicune loves the crit nerf as Jumpman discussed above. The prospect of the average crit doing at most half damage gives plenty of breathing room to get the extra crit in. It's not a huge fan of bulky Curse users like Umbreon or Gastrodon, but I've never lost to one yet, and there generally aren't that many relevant attacks to PP stall out.
Garchomp @ Yache Berry
31/31/31/31/31/29
6 hp / 252 atk / 252 spe
lvl 50 stats: 184/182/115/81/105/168
Sand Veil (can't find Rough Skin)
Jolly
-Earthquake
-Outrage
-Iron Head
-Swords Dance
The imperfect speed IV gives it exactly the same speed as base + 101. Generally, Chomp just cleans up what Darmnitan finished. The second most common use is to take a rock attack aimed at Darmanitan and KO with super effective Earthquake. In addition, the Suicune/Garchomp synergy is INSANE. It gets to switch in free to electric attacks Suicune doesn't like taking, and few of the really strong physical attackers Suicune doesn't enjoy don't like fast, strong Earthquakes. It's probably my best bet against Curse users since it can quickly SD up beyond their boosts and hit hard with Earthquake. Outrage is there for extra damage, but I generally just EQ due to Fairies. Iron Head lets hit Fairies hard and has great accuracy. The flinch chance is also relevant for breaking Sturdy and sashes.
Lost battle: 5KPG-WWWW-WWW6-56MQ Made a bad prediction trying to switch Garchomp into a Recovering Latias1, but it used Dragon Pulse.
Thought I saved an interesting battle where I made the wrong play in dealing with Staraptor 4, but oh well.
Lati@s trainers scare the hell out of me. Lati@1 is a Calm Mind user, which Suicune can beat if it starts setting up ASAP, but Lati@s2 is White Herb Draco Meteor with Thunderbolt or Thunder.
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 6 SpD Suicune: 102-120 (49.2 - 57.9%) -- 60.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
means I don't want to switch Cune in on a Draco Meteor. Garchomp can outspeed and KO Lati@s 1, but is a risky switch and would be Outrage locked. My general strategy was to Flare Blitz Darmanitan (stronger than neutral Rock Slide) to scout, but I lost when Latias used Calm Mind and I panicked. That and 1HKO users are the only thing that worried me, but there's not too much I can do about that except hope for luck.
Edit: theorymonning time against Lati@s: Switch to Garchomp. If it's 1 and it doesn't Dragon Pulse, Chomp outspeeds and KO's. If it does, Suicune gets in free and can set up. If it's set 2, it will Draco Meteor and use up its White Herb. In that case, Suicune can get to +1 before it has to rest, aaaaaand
252 SpA Latios Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 64-76 (30.9 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Latias Thunder vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 68-82 (32.8 - 39.6%) -- 18.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
have a pretty good shot to get there, barring instakill crits? Has to be something better.
Darminatan @ Choice Scarf
31/31/31/x/31/31
6 hp / 252 att / 252 spe
lvl 50 stats: 181/211/75/31/75/147
Sheer Force
Adamant
-Flare Blitz
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-U-Turn
I am eternally thankful for whichever programmer gave Flare Blitz that 10% chance to burn. With STAB and the 1.3x Sheer Force boost figured in, hitting with a 243 power move off 140 attack 1HKO's almost the entire unresisted Maison. Choice Scarf allows Darminatan to outspeed the unboosted Maison and half of the scarfers. Those that do outspeed usually lock into a rock move for Garchomp to tank, are Garchomp and locks into the much better-for-me Earthquake, or is Pinsir. Water-types are generally set-up bait for Suicune, and most bulky enough to take a neutral shot are either ground for Suicune or Poison for Garchomp. Darm's job is to at worst either KO the first Pokemon and seriously weaken the second or get Chomp or Suicune in to set up.
Suicune @ Leftovers
31/12/23/19/26/31
252 hp / 252 def / 6 spa
lvl 50 stats: 207/86/179/105/133/94
Pressure
Relaxed (it was the giveaway Suicune)
-Scald
-Ice Beam
-Calm Mind
-Rest
Well, it's stats aren't perfect, it's nature isn't ideal, but dang if Suicune isn't the glue behind this team. Standard Maison Suicune isn't the most innovative Pokemon, but I love it. Nothing barring a 1HKO user beats a +6/+6 Suicune and it sets up effortlessly on almost any non-electric or non-grass Pokemon. Pressure is a great blessing since it means that a cycle of "CM twice, rest twice" is enough to stall out most Thunderbolts or physical STABs. Suicune loves the crit nerf as Jumpman discussed above. The prospect of the average crit doing at most half damage gives plenty of breathing room to get the extra crit in. It's not a huge fan of bulky Curse users like Umbreon or Gastrodon, but I've never lost to one yet, and there generally aren't that many relevant attacks to PP stall out.
Garchomp @ Yache Berry
31/31/31/31/31/29
6 hp / 252 atk / 252 spe
lvl 50 stats: 184/182/115/81/105/168
Sand Veil (can't find Rough Skin)
Jolly
-Earthquake
-Outrage
-Iron Head
-Swords Dance
The imperfect speed IV gives it exactly the same speed as base + 101. Generally, Chomp just cleans up what Darmnitan finished. The second most common use is to take a rock attack aimed at Darmanitan and KO with super effective Earthquake. In addition, the Suicune/Garchomp synergy is INSANE. It gets to switch in free to electric attacks Suicune doesn't like taking, and few of the really strong physical attackers Suicune doesn't enjoy don't like fast, strong Earthquakes. It's probably my best bet against Curse users since it can quickly SD up beyond their boosts and hit hard with Earthquake. Outrage is there for extra damage, but I generally just EQ due to Fairies. Iron Head lets hit Fairies hard and has great accuracy. The flinch chance is also relevant for breaking Sturdy and sashes.
Lost battle: 5KPG-WWWW-WWW6-56MQ Made a bad prediction trying to switch Garchomp into a Recovering Latias1, but it used Dragon Pulse.
Thought I saved an interesting battle where I made the wrong play in dealing with Staraptor 4, but oh well.
Lati@s trainers scare the hell out of me. Lati@1 is a Calm Mind user, which Suicune can beat if it starts setting up ASAP, but Lati@s2 is White Herb Draco Meteor with Thunderbolt or Thunder.
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 6 SpD Suicune: 102-120 (49.2 - 57.9%) -- 60.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
means I don't want to switch Cune in on a Draco Meteor. Garchomp can outspeed and KO Lati@s 1, but is a risky switch and would be Outrage locked. My general strategy was to Flare Blitz Darmanitan (stronger than neutral Rock Slide) to scout, but I lost when Latias used Calm Mind and I panicked. That and 1HKO users are the only thing that worried me, but there's not too much I can do about that except hope for luck.
Edit: theorymonning time against Lati@s: Switch to Garchomp. If it's 1 and it doesn't Dragon Pulse, Chomp outspeeds and KO's. If it does, Suicune gets in free and can set up. If it's set 2, it will Draco Meteor and use up its White Herb. In that case, Suicune can get to +1 before it has to rest, aaaaaand
252 SpA Latios Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 64-76 (30.9 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Latias Thunder vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 68-82 (32.8 - 39.6%) -- 18.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
have a pretty good shot to get there, barring instakill crits? Has to be something better.
Last edited:
So just lost a pretty hot streak in the Super Doubles Maison of 227 wins. The team itself was pretty fluid. The leads dealt with any random stupid tactics I ran into, and I had a good back up arsenal for hyper offensive teams. Lost at battle 228 thanks to a turn 1 crit from a -1 Close Combat from Arcanine onto my Mega Kangaskhan. Feel pretty salty right now lol
Anyway the team:
20XX (Kangaskhan) (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Sucker Punch
- Fake Out
- Power-Up Punch
Standard Mega-Kangaskhan, fodderizes like 90% of the maison. Don't think I really have to explain what it does.
Peachy (Gardevoir) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Trace
EVs: sekreet
Modest Nature
- Taunt
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Will-O-Wisp
My favorite Pokemon and set to use VGC. I figured I could give it a go a long time ago when I was farming BP for TMs and I loved it in the Maison. It stops so much of the stupid crap in the Maison. Taunt also really helped Kangaskhan on the beating Ghost-type Pokemon front. Being able to Taunt things like Cofagrigus, Dusknoir, and Chandelure so that they're forced to become targets of Sucker Punch is really nice. Also preventing other things like TR, status, and evasion strats was killer to have. Trace was really nice to scout abilities too, knowing for sure if something was Flame Body or not was really good to know for Kangaskhan lol.
One thing that the Maison started having later on in the run was a lot of Pokemon with Explosion. That's where Will-O-Wisp came in handy the most. Burning the Explosion Pokemon helped my Kanga and Garde easily take the explosion and easily start with a 4-3 or 4-2 advantage, which always would end up with a win. Also burning physical attackers that would threaten Kangaskhan from setting up was nice utility. Overall a 10/10 Pokemon, I recommend it.
Zeb (Mamoswine) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Protect
- Earthquake
I really needed Ice-type coverage for fast Dragon- and Flying-types and I was already using Mamoswine for my VGC team, so why not use it here? It also came in as a clutch pivot on for things like Terrakion or Raikou to be able to take a hit then KO back. Just bread and butter to the team coverage, not a lot to talk about.
Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Spd / 248 SAtk / 4 HP / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Flying]
I'd been toying with this slot a lot pre-bank and I was never satisfied. I had Talonflame, Rotom-W, and Lucario in this slot since i was just lazy and tried out mons from my VGC '14 team. Then Pokebank was finally released and I transferred over my Thundurus that I RNGd a very long time ago. Thundurus-T added a lot of what I wanted for this slot. I heavy special attacking hitter that can work with Mamoswine's EQs. I probably should've used Discharge > Volt Switch, but I was too lazy to change it from my old VGC '13 set.
So yea, simple enough offense team with Gardevoir taking care of most of the bs the maison can throw at me. Will try again at the Maison when the salt stops flowing through my veins, but this was still a pretty satisfying run to say the least.
Proof:
I'll be gunning for your streak next time Randy, whenever there is a next time
Anyway the team:
20XX (Kangaskhan) (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Sucker Punch
- Fake Out
- Power-Up Punch
Standard Mega-Kangaskhan, fodderizes like 90% of the maison. Don't think I really have to explain what it does.
Peachy (Gardevoir) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Trace
EVs: sekreet
Modest Nature
- Taunt
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Will-O-Wisp
My favorite Pokemon and set to use VGC. I figured I could give it a go a long time ago when I was farming BP for TMs and I loved it in the Maison. It stops so much of the stupid crap in the Maison. Taunt also really helped Kangaskhan on the beating Ghost-type Pokemon front. Being able to Taunt things like Cofagrigus, Dusknoir, and Chandelure so that they're forced to become targets of Sucker Punch is really nice. Also preventing other things like TR, status, and evasion strats was killer to have. Trace was really nice to scout abilities too, knowing for sure if something was Flame Body or not was really good to know for Kangaskhan lol.
One thing that the Maison started having later on in the run was a lot of Pokemon with Explosion. That's where Will-O-Wisp came in handy the most. Burning the Explosion Pokemon helped my Kanga and Garde easily take the explosion and easily start with a 4-3 or 4-2 advantage, which always would end up with a win. Also burning physical attackers that would threaten Kangaskhan from setting up was nice utility. Overall a 10/10 Pokemon, I recommend it.
Zeb (Mamoswine) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Protect
- Earthquake
I really needed Ice-type coverage for fast Dragon- and Flying-types and I was already using Mamoswine for my VGC team, so why not use it here? It also came in as a clutch pivot on for things like Terrakion or Raikou to be able to take a hit then KO back. Just bread and butter to the team coverage, not a lot to talk about.
Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Spd / 248 SAtk / 4 HP / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Flying]
I'd been toying with this slot a lot pre-bank and I was never satisfied. I had Talonflame, Rotom-W, and Lucario in this slot since i was just lazy and tried out mons from my VGC '14 team. Then Pokebank was finally released and I transferred over my Thundurus that I RNGd a very long time ago. Thundurus-T added a lot of what I wanted for this slot. I heavy special attacking hitter that can work with Mamoswine's EQs. I probably should've used Discharge > Volt Switch, but I was too lazy to change it from my old VGC '13 set.
So yea, simple enough offense team with Gardevoir taking care of most of the bs the maison can throw at me. Will try again at the Maison when the salt stops flowing through my veins, but this was still a pretty satisfying run to say the least.
Proof:
I'll be gunning for your streak next time Randy, whenever there is a next time
Last edited:
Hi there, it's been a while since I visited this thread. I managed to score a 447 Super Triples Streak with a sun team:
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze (Drought)
EVs: 4 Def, 252 SAtk, 252 Spd
Timid Nature
-Heat wave
-Air Slash
-Solar Beam
-Protect
Mega of the team and brings the sun up while being devastatingly powerful. Also helps destroy most Water and Rock types with Solar Beam.
Typhlosion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def, 252 SAtk, 252 Spd
Modest Nature
-Eruption
-Focus Blast
-Hidden Power Ice
-Flamethrower
Just your standard Typhlosion set. 90% of the Maison can't stand a Sun-boosted full HP eruption to the face and bring them down. I have never used Focus Miss at all during the whole streak, can't remember if I used HP ice but I think I did. Flamethrower is situational and is for when it comes back at a lower HP.
Galeforce @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
-Fake Out
-Seed Bomb
-Knock Off
-Protect
Physical Shiftry Sweeper, worth it RNGing one in back in White. It got a spot on the team because IIRC, it is the only Pokemon with both Fake Out and Chlorophyll. It would use Fake Out on the 1st turn where it can't get the speed boost and then starts sweeping though sometimes a slower Pokemon that can't be OHKO'd by Typhlosion but can be finished off by Shiftry, it doesn't have to fake out.
I gotta say, it isn't very strong since it can't OHKO some pokemon like Terrakion at full HP which is problematic.
Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Satk, 252 Spd
Timid Nature
-Dragon Pulse
-Psychic
-Thunderbolt
-Protect
Main backup of the team and cleans stuff when it gets dangerous. It helps deal with Fire-types that are otherwise very threatening to the team, so is the Water types with Thunderbolt. Also packs useful resists like Electric, Water, Fire, Fighting, and immunity to Ground.
Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 212 HP, 252 Atk, 44 SDef
Adamant Nature
-Drain Punch
-Mach Punch
-Rock Slide
-Protect
Bulky Backup and provides a much needed Rock resist. I found its Mach Punch to be very helpful in eliminating fast enemy sweepers and a great switch-in to expected Rock moves that are aimed at Charizard/Typhlosion and deals with Wide Guard users such as Bastiodon and Regigigas.
Infernape used to be in this spot but being very frail with no focus sash made it go event though having fake out was undoubtedly great.
General @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def
Brave Nature
-Iron Head
-Shadow Sneak
-Sacred Sword
-King's Sheild
Pro. Great typing. Not much else to say.
Biggest threats to the team are Fire types (and Flash Fire) since I have nothing SE for them except Rock Slide on conkeldurr. Heatran with Flash Fire runs over this team and still destroys Conkeldurr if the sun is up. Bulky Pokemon that setup opposing weather like Shuckle are annoying and can be hared to deal with. TTar, Aboma, Politoed, Hippowdon and Auroras also take away the sun if they aren't the leads.
Battle Videos: 985W-WWWW-WWW6-5C9E (Battle No. 447, lost match)
Will provide more soon if I have time.
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze (Drought)
EVs: 4 Def, 252 SAtk, 252 Spd
Timid Nature
-Heat wave
-Air Slash
-Solar Beam
-Protect
Mega of the team and brings the sun up while being devastatingly powerful. Also helps destroy most Water and Rock types with Solar Beam.
Typhlosion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def, 252 SAtk, 252 Spd
Modest Nature
-Eruption
-Focus Blast
-Hidden Power Ice
-Flamethrower
Just your standard Typhlosion set. 90% of the Maison can't stand a Sun-boosted full HP eruption to the face and bring them down. I have never used Focus Miss at all during the whole streak, can't remember if I used HP ice but I think I did. Flamethrower is situational and is for when it comes back at a lower HP.
Galeforce @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
-Fake Out
-Seed Bomb
-Knock Off
-Protect
Physical Shiftry Sweeper, worth it RNGing one in back in White. It got a spot on the team because IIRC, it is the only Pokemon with both Fake Out and Chlorophyll. It would use Fake Out on the 1st turn where it can't get the speed boost and then starts sweeping though sometimes a slower Pokemon that can't be OHKO'd by Typhlosion but can be finished off by Shiftry, it doesn't have to fake out.
I gotta say, it isn't very strong since it can't OHKO some pokemon like Terrakion at full HP which is problematic.
Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Satk, 252 Spd
Timid Nature
-Dragon Pulse
-Psychic
-Thunderbolt
-Protect
Main backup of the team and cleans stuff when it gets dangerous. It helps deal with Fire-types that are otherwise very threatening to the team, so is the Water types with Thunderbolt. Also packs useful resists like Electric, Water, Fire, Fighting, and immunity to Ground.
Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 212 HP, 252 Atk, 44 SDef
Adamant Nature
-Drain Punch
-Mach Punch
-Rock Slide
-Protect
Bulky Backup and provides a much needed Rock resist. I found its Mach Punch to be very helpful in eliminating fast enemy sweepers and a great switch-in to expected Rock moves that are aimed at Charizard/Typhlosion and deals with Wide Guard users such as Bastiodon and Regigigas.
Infernape used to be in this spot but being very frail with no focus sash made it go event though having fake out was undoubtedly great.
General @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def
Brave Nature
-Iron Head
-Shadow Sneak
-Sacred Sword
-King's Sheild
Pro. Great typing. Not much else to say.
Biggest threats to the team are Fire types (and Flash Fire) since I have nothing SE for them except Rock Slide on conkeldurr. Heatran with Flash Fire runs over this team and still destroys Conkeldurr if the sun is up. Bulky Pokemon that setup opposing weather like Shuckle are annoying and can be hared to deal with. TTar, Aboma, Politoed, Hippowdon and Auroras also take away the sun if they aren't the leads.
Battle Videos: 985W-WWWW-WWW6-5C9E (Battle No. 447, lost match)
Will provide more soon if I have time.
Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Energy Ball
- Destiny Bond
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon dance
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- Extremespeed
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Sp.atk / 252 Spd
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Heal Bell
Khangaskhan @ Khangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy/Parental Bond
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
- Power up punsch
Fatty Mcfat was my inspiration for this team i already had in my pc except i used Sylveon, my strategy was simple: Start off with Gengar and tear holes in your opponents teams, when Gengar has been attacked to 1 hp/relatively low hp i used Destiny Bond to ensure i kill 1 pokemon. When the fourth pokemon has been sent out the next move depends on the situation: Use Sylveon's wish next and then pass it over to Dragonite and use Dragon dance, get healed to activate Multiscale one more time and use Dragon Dance again and you'll have a ridiculiuosly strong sweeper. This won't work very well if the opponent attacks Dragonite with powerful super effective attacks like Stone Edge so that Another Multiscale can't be activated, also Fairys ruin outrage so that's where Kangaskhan comes in, sweep with a powerful STAB Return, the other moves covered many types as well so i had no problem with this moveset. I absolutely love Sucker Punch for Trick Room teams, especially for psychic trick room teams which appeared a lot in my super rotation battles.
I lost in battle 181 in super rotation, video: WBMG-WWWW-WWW6-5YCX. That Bastiodon was Sylveon's nightmare, Soundproof prevented Hyper Voice from being used so i knew it was game over there, if i only had used Kangaskhans Earthquake instead of fearing the faster Slaking being used first i might have actually reached 200 for that berry... Any suggestions to make this team better or any pokemon that needs to be replaced?
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Energy Ball
- Destiny Bond
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon dance
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- Extremespeed
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Sp.atk / 252 Spd
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Heal Bell
Khangaskhan @ Khangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy/Parental Bond
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
- Power up punsch
Fatty Mcfat was my inspiration for this team i already had in my pc except i used Sylveon, my strategy was simple: Start off with Gengar and tear holes in your opponents teams, when Gengar has been attacked to 1 hp/relatively low hp i used Destiny Bond to ensure i kill 1 pokemon. When the fourth pokemon has been sent out the next move depends on the situation: Use Sylveon's wish next and then pass it over to Dragonite and use Dragon dance, get healed to activate Multiscale one more time and use Dragon Dance again and you'll have a ridiculiuosly strong sweeper. This won't work very well if the opponent attacks Dragonite with powerful super effective attacks like Stone Edge so that Another Multiscale can't be activated, also Fairys ruin outrage so that's where Kangaskhan comes in, sweep with a powerful STAB Return, the other moves covered many types as well so i had no problem with this moveset. I absolutely love Sucker Punch for Trick Room teams, especially for psychic trick room teams which appeared a lot in my super rotation battles.
I lost in battle 181 in super rotation, video: WBMG-WWWW-WWW6-5YCX. That Bastiodon was Sylveon's nightmare, Soundproof prevented Hyper Voice from being used so i knew it was game over there, if i only had used Kangaskhans Earthquake instead of fearing the faster Slaking being used first i might have actually reached 200 for that berry... Any suggestions to make this team better or any pokemon that needs to be replaced?
Last edited:
My winning streak sadly ended after 268 victories with my entrainment team. I'll post the proof and details tomorrow.
Alright, I lost at 269 with my entrainment team, making it a 268 record. I got in a pretty difficult situation, I made a mistake and pufff good bye. However, I feel that even without making the mistake, I would have lost there anyways.
Team:
Durant @ Choice Skarf
Ability: Truant
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- X-Scissor
- Entrainment
- Iron Head
- Super Power
Scolipede @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Baton Pass
- Protect
- X-Scissor
- Swords Dance
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Aerial Ace
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake
It's simple, I switch to Scolipede on the AI first truant turn and then protect/set up and then baton pass to Kanga. Obviously this is flawed everywhere, on top of our regular truant's counters, we have to add the roar and whirlwind that now bypasses protect and can be annoying for this. About the pokes themselves:
_Focus and EV investment in HP may sound dumb, but it pays off.
_Aerial Ace on Kanga stands for those holding Bright Powder and Lax Incense, whose have screwed one of my challenges before at 102.
_X-Scissor on Scolipede is for obvious reasons, I can't have a pokemon only for baton passing in a 3 dudes team.
Proof: Y5AW-WWWW-WWW6-68SH
I'll fix this team in the future and make a second attemp, but for now I'll just try to get all the trophies.
Team:
Durant @ Choice Skarf
Ability: Truant
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- X-Scissor
- Entrainment
- Iron Head
- Super Power
Scolipede @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Baton Pass
- Protect
- X-Scissor
- Swords Dance
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Aerial Ace
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake
It's simple, I switch to Scolipede on the AI first truant turn and then protect/set up and then baton pass to Kanga. Obviously this is flawed everywhere, on top of our regular truant's counters, we have to add the roar and whirlwind that now bypasses protect and can be annoying for this. About the pokes themselves:
_Focus and EV investment in HP may sound dumb, but it pays off.
_Aerial Ace on Kanga stands for those holding Bright Powder and Lax Incense, whose have screwed one of my challenges before at 102.
_X-Scissor on Scolipede is for obvious reasons, I can't have a pokemon only for baton passing in a 3 dudes team.
Proof: Y5AW-WWWW-WWW6-68SH
I'll fix this team in the future and make a second attemp, but for now I'll just try to get all the trophies.
So I actually haven't started actually fighting through the Battle Maison, but have just theory-crafted a team for Super Singles, and I was just looking for some input with your guys' experience of what's most important in the Battle Maison.
My intended team definitely involves Metagross and Mega Ampharos as my sweepers.
Adamant Metagross @ Leftovers (168 HP, 252 Atk, 90 Sp.Def)
Clear Body
~ Hone Claws (I think that's a good response to Double Team? And a <100% accuracy Zen Headbutt and Meteor Mash after Brightpowder seems pretty good)
~ Zen Headbutt
~ Earthquake
~ Meteor Mash
Modest Ampharos @ Ampharosite (252 Sp.Atk, x) I'm looking for advice on what the rest of the EV spread should be? Attack and Speed EVs are pointless on the fabulous dragon, but I'm wondering if I should pool them in HP or Defensive EVs?
Static/Mold Breaker
~ Signal Beam/Cotton Guard (is raising the defense stat 3 worth a move slot? Will I actually use that move?)
~ Thunderbolt
~ Power Gem
~ Dragon Pulse
Now, my main question is what Pokemon should I use as a support. I'm debating between
Whimsicott @ Light Clay (not sure what nature or EV spread, should I focus on Sp.Atk or its defenses?)
Prankster
~ Reflect
~ Light Screen
~ Safeguard
~ Energy Ball
I like Whimsicott because priority Reflect/Light Screen seems pretty sweet, and I need a Pokemon to deal with Ground Pokemon because they're super effective against both of my sweepers.
Or
(Bold or Modest) Vaporeon @ Leftovers/Lum Berry(?) (252HP, x) Should I focus on its Defense or Sp.Atk?
Water Absorb
~ Yawn
~ Safeguard
~ Wish/Ice Beam (Ice Beam would deal with dragons with Earthquake (are there any?) At the very least it'd be handy against Landorus)
~ Scald
I got the idea for Vaporeon from VaporeonIce's Togekiss in his Super Singles record team, where he had a crippler with Yawn and Safeguard that has a good type advantage against what the sweeper(s) fear most. And I'm just wondering how often I'll be able to Wish and how useful that will be. I know that Mega Ampharos is going to have to take some hits due to being so slow, (which is why I like the idea of Whimsicott setting up the appropriate shield for the sweepers), but mega evolving/setting up against a sleeping Pokemon seems pretty good too, and being able to face Ground type Pokemon without adding a second weakness to Fire types seems good.
Any feedback? Thanks.
My intended team definitely involves Metagross and Mega Ampharos as my sweepers.
Adamant Metagross @ Leftovers (168 HP, 252 Atk, 90 Sp.Def)
Clear Body
~ Hone Claws (I think that's a good response to Double Team? And a <100% accuracy Zen Headbutt and Meteor Mash after Brightpowder seems pretty good)
~ Zen Headbutt
~ Earthquake
~ Meteor Mash
Modest Ampharos @ Ampharosite (252 Sp.Atk, x) I'm looking for advice on what the rest of the EV spread should be? Attack and Speed EVs are pointless on the fabulous dragon, but I'm wondering if I should pool them in HP or Defensive EVs?
Static/Mold Breaker
~ Signal Beam/Cotton Guard (is raising the defense stat 3 worth a move slot? Will I actually use that move?)
~ Thunderbolt
~ Power Gem
~ Dragon Pulse
Now, my main question is what Pokemon should I use as a support. I'm debating between
Whimsicott @ Light Clay (not sure what nature or EV spread, should I focus on Sp.Atk or its defenses?)
Prankster
~ Reflect
~ Light Screen
~ Safeguard
~ Energy Ball
I like Whimsicott because priority Reflect/Light Screen seems pretty sweet, and I need a Pokemon to deal with Ground Pokemon because they're super effective against both of my sweepers.
Or
(Bold or Modest) Vaporeon @ Leftovers/Lum Berry(?) (252HP, x) Should I focus on its Defense or Sp.Atk?
Water Absorb
~ Yawn
~ Safeguard
~ Wish/Ice Beam (Ice Beam would deal with dragons with Earthquake (are there any?) At the very least it'd be handy against Landorus)
~ Scald
I got the idea for Vaporeon from VaporeonIce's Togekiss in his Super Singles record team, where he had a crippler with Yawn and Safeguard that has a good type advantage against what the sweeper(s) fear most. And I'm just wondering how often I'll be able to Wish and how useful that will be. I know that Mega Ampharos is going to have to take some hits due to being so slow, (which is why I like the idea of Whimsicott setting up the appropriate shield for the sweepers), but mega evolving/setting up against a sleeping Pokemon seems pretty good too, and being able to face Ground type Pokemon without adding a second weakness to Fire types seems good.
Any feedback? Thanks.
My first reaction was "slow teams don't work in Super Singles." Clearly, that's not exactly true, because lots of people run relatively slow teams and do well. I have one of the slowest teams in the top 10, but I'll give you a sense of what I'm talking about when I say slow teams don't work and why I was able to make my "slow" team work.
It's pretty obvious that the problem with slow mons is that they'll have to take hits before they attack. If you're going for a decent win streak, that means, with enough tries, they'll be taking CRITICAL hits before they attack. So you want them to be bulky enough to survive a crit, strong enough to KO afterward, and have a very good shot of getting a KO on the opponent's next mon. If you KO the opponent's mon but the switch-in immediately KOs you, you're down to 2 vs 2, which is much more likely to go badly for you. You rely on team synergy to deal with all the threats the AI might throw at you.
Aegislash is a good example of a slow mon that works. It has crazy bulk, King's Shield lowers the opponent's attack, and it has Shadow Sneak for priority. At +6 (which it can usually hit easily), Shadow Sneak is strong enough to OHKO uninvested genies, making it not a slow mon anymore. That said, even with how good Aegislash is, I feel like my team's success was heavily dependent on Togekiss's Earthquake immunity.
Weakness management is the other key issue with slow teams. If you have a slow sweeper (even a +6 Aegislash), it's not uncommon for a threatening opponent with a super effectve move to come in after you get a KO. If they can take out your sweeper with a crit, you might be in a lot of trouble; again, you want to avoid being at 2 vs. 2 unless one of your two is set up and ready to take on the world (a la +2 Mega Kangaskhan or +1 Dragonite). To keep that from happening, you need to switch out. But if your switch-in loses half of its health on the switch, you're vulnerable again. Brightpowder misses, Quick Claw activations, secondary effects, etc; these can all mess you up badly if you switch to something that isn't prepared for them. Over my hundreds of battles, I don't think I ever switched Mega Kangaskhan in on an Earthquake aimed for Aegislash, and I doubt I ever switched Togekiss in on a Shadow Ball. Sure, Mega Khan could have come in, taken ~45% damage from the EQ, outsped, and immediately KO'd most of the time, but she wouldn't be able to safely get to +2, and that's too much of a risk for me. You'll notice a similar pattern with Jumpman's Mega Scizor; it has priority to offset its poor speed, and while it usually has to switch out against Fire, Jumpman's other two mons don't care much (Suicune lols, while Haxorus has a Lum Berry to heal the burn that might accompany a Flamethrower/Fire Blast). Suicune is slow(ish) as well, but Jumpman's other two mons do the same thing; neither care about Grass, while Haxorus can heal off secondary paralysis from Electric-type moves with its Lum Berry.
But there's more to it than just having the resistances/immunities; your switch-in needs to be able to do something helpful when it comes in. And ultimately, I think that's where your team falls short. Stuff like Metagross and Mega Ampharos have great power for doubles/triples, where they can be helped by partners adding additional damage or using Helping Hand. But in Singles, they're missing KOs too much of the time, which leads them to take a second and possibly fatal hit. Neither of your two potential back-ups solves this problem. Vaporeon takes neutral damage from Earthquake, and while it has awesome physical bulk if you fully invest in it, it still won't like repeated hits that have a chance of being crits. On top of that, many Rock and Ground types have Sturdy, which means Vaporeon may have to take another hit, even from a slower Pokemon with bad SpDef that's weak to its moves. Whimsicott is just really weak; Energy Ball can handle Rhyperior, but it won't have a good time against stuff like Nidoking (which was VERY common on my streak). So when one of your slow sweepers needs to switch out, your switch-in will have to make a real sacrifice, which will hurt your team's consistency over time.
Yawn is one of my favorite moves in Super Singles, but it also doesn't really have a place on this team. For me, Yawn's main reason for existing was to let Mega Kangaskhan get to +2 mostly unharmed. When it did, the match was typically (though not always) over. Yawn will generally buy you one free turn (not always, but again, in the long run, you're better off assuming the opponent will only have a one turn sleep), and if you're not using that turn to power up one Pokemon enough to KO everything, it's not worth the damage the Yawn user takes (and make no mistake; even with its crazy bulk, Togekiss using Yawn often resulted in Togekiss fainting on the second turn). Yawn's opportunity cost is huge, so you need to be sure it's worth it. Your team doesn't have something that can really make that happen. Your sweepers will probably KO the Pokemon you put to sleep, but that's not worth having your team take two turns worth of damage or status.
As for Dual Screens, apparently they're very good in Rotation battles. I assume that's because you have three Pokemon instead of just two that you can use after the Screens setter and you don't have to waste a turn switching/fainting to capitalize on the screens. That said, I wouldn't use them in Singles, because those things don't really apply there. Setting them up typically means sacrificing the Pokemon that set them. On top of that, crits and Infiltrator act like the screens aren't there, which usually ends badly in the long run. It would suck to take that time and the damage you take setting up screens, only to have your Mega Ampharos be OHKOd by a crit Earthquake that ignored your screens.
Good luck!
At risk of being overly simplistic, the goal of the Maison is to be able to beat everything. While some hax are unavoidable (lookin' at you, Quick Claw Fissure Donphan), there are two main ways of avoiding all the other hax: outspeed and KO so you they never attack, or be bulky enough such that you can afford to take an unlucky hit and not lose.
You want your primary sweeper to beat as many things as possible out of the gate as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, the only Pokemon with enough brute power to 1HKO most of the Maison unboosted aren't fast enough to outspeed the majority of threats. You can fix that by slapping a Choice Scarf on your sweeper like I did with Darmanitan, but Choice-locking limits your options, and to avoid hax, you want options. The other option is to boost your offenses. However, using a non-attacking move means you will take a hit, and when you take a hit, you risk hax. Even after setting up, you want to be able to outspeed whatever comes next to avoid taking more hits. That's why Dragonite and Haxorus show up in so many teams. Both have the bulk to take a hit, and when setting up increase both attack and speed. Mega-Kangaskhan is similar in that it can easily get +2 attack and is fairly fast with enough bulk to reliably take a hit, and it can also "outspeed" faster counters with a boosted Sucker Punch. As a result, a fully set up Dragonite, Haxorus, or Mega-Kangaskhan can reasonably hope not to take another hit for the rest of the battle. Hits are hax.
The other way to beat everything is to set up to untouchable levels of bulk without the opposing Pokemon representing any sort of a threat. Curse Ferrothorn and Calm Mind Suicune are the epitomes of this strategy. Both Pokemon have fantastic mixed bulk to survive hits from both sides of the spectrum, possess some recovery, and are nigh untouchable on the physical or special side after a boost or two. Suicune tends to come in on a special attacker, start using Calm Mind, resting as needed, until it is +6/+6. At this point, special attacks do less than Leftovers recovery, Suicune can at worst 2HKO most everything, and it has the natural physical bulk to survive nearly anything. Hax becomes irrelevant because the massive bulk and power means that a missed Scald implies taking 10 damage, a crit just means it's time to Rest while the next three attacks do a grand total of 20 damage after leftovers, etc.
The third important point of emphasis I'd like to make is synergy - both offensive and defensive. You want your sweeper to take care of "everything," but that's not possible. For instance, my Darmanitan's Flare Blitz will never 1HKO Nidoqueen without a crit. Since Nidoqueen can easily 1HKO with Earthquake, I want a good switch which can take at least 1 Quake. Scarf Aerodactyl can outspeed and 1HKO Darminatan with Rock Slide. To deal with both of those threats, I use Garchomp. Its bulk lets it easily tank an Earthquake, and its offensive synergy means that STAB EQ is generally super effective against the bulky poisons which can survive a Flare Blitz. Its ground typing also means that Rock Slide does a pittance, allowing it to set up a Swords Dance and become a formidable offensive sweeper with that tricky 102 base speed. But as a dragon, Garchomp hates taking ice-type attacks. Then I can switch Suicune in for free and use its bulk to set up. Suicune also likes switching into water types which Darmanitan can't KO.
Going back to actual team building, here is the outline I would suggest for a Maison team:
First, you want your primary sweeper which can handle most threats on its own without help. It should be able to outspeed and 1HKO as many threats as possible, or be bulky enough to set up and be able to outspeed and KO as many threats as possible.
Second, you want a secondary sweeper to cover what your primary sweeper cannot. Offensive and defensive synergy is extremely important. Does your primary sweeper have a weakness against fast, frail Pokemon? Bulky, slow Pokemon? Your secondary sweeper should be able to cover those. Make sure it has the bulk take a hit of the required type upon switching in.
Finally, the third Pokemon should be the glue holding everything together. This can generally be a super bulky set-up Pokemon which is guaranteed to effortlessly set up against several threats, then rampage with maxed stats of choice. It's a back up plan if your first plan of "just sweep everything" fails. Which it might, considering hax and all. If you have two different plans on the same team, hax which is crippling to one (Fissure hit Suicune while it was setting up!) can be irrelevant to the other (Fissure? Hard to Fissure when you're outsped and KO'd.)
That's my thought at least.
The last two posts contain fantastic advice. I would also just add that if you are serious about getting a really high streak, be patient and take your time when you're in a sticky situation. Use the resources in the first post to determine exactly what set you are facing (or at least narrow it down) and then use the damage calculator to figure out which series of moves will give you the highest possible chance of winning. The Maison can OHKO hax, crit hax, flinch hax, parahax, freezehax (etc) you to death at any opportunity you give it so plan ahead to stop these opportunities arising.
Wow, Mechagodzilla, you surely made a better team than my sun team. Maybe I'll pick some ideas from yours. But right now I'm in the middle of a glorious streak :D I'll post maybe in a few days with proofs and the actual party :D
The other thing i wanted to point out, is that in Feb 1, 2014 (Page 48) I posted my thanks to this page along with a picture of my five trophys. Its seems that Eppie never noticed it and I he never wrote my name in the 'Hall of Fame'. ¿Do I have to upload more proof of my trophys?
Plz, any answer will be nice.
Thanks!!
The other thing i wanted to point out, is that in Feb 1, 2014 (Page 48) I posted my thanks to this page along with a picture of my five trophys. Its seems that Eppie never noticed it and I he never wrote my name in the 'Hall of Fame'. ¿Do I have to upload more proof of my trophys?
Plz, any answer will be nice.
Thanks!!